Wednesday, February 03, 2010

LOST: Season 6 Episode 1 and Episode 2 - LA X

WELCOME BACK LOSTIES!!!!!  Whew, I don't even know where to begin.  It's been almost 9 months since we have had some new material to digest.  That was plenty of time to re-watch the show for me, plenty of time to get questions fresh in the head (if you missed it last month, check out my 23 Mysteries to Be Resolved post. We got a couple in this episode!)   I'm sure many of you had LOST viewing parties or maybe some of you wanted to watch in seclusion to have it all to yourself!   Me, I had my lovely new wife throw me a surprise LOST party for 2 (Pic 1, Pic 2, Pic 3)!  DHARMA stuff everywhere in the basement, Peanut Butter, Mangos and Hurley Hot Pockets for dinner.   What can I say?  You're all jealous!    It's a bittersweet time folks.  The final season of one of the greatest shows of all time is upon us.  But, it's going to be a thrilling ride to the finish!  This is what we have been waiting for.  We put our faith in Team Darlton (Exec Producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse) that they know what they're doing and they're going to take us to the end in a fantastical way.   Well, here we are!   We have seen 2 hours.  What do I have to say about it?   Oh, I think you guys already know by now:    "WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I mean, what to the what?!  That was some crazy stuff.   Yes, a lot of what we have been speculating over the months is turning out to be not far from the truth (they ARE back in the present, but there is some kind of alternate timeline).   The big question is, where are they going with this?   Are the storylines going to merge at some point?   Are they really just showing us what happened if Flight 815 didn't crash?  Is this further going to emphasize how interconnected these people's lives are Island or no Island?   All I can say is, there is crazy stuff going on in the timeline we are familiar with and also with the timeline that we kinda sorta know, but don't know!    Yes, we're all confused.  The producers knew we'd be confused and have been worried that we wouldn't like where they're going with this.   NEVER doubt Team Darlton, they know how to pull at our strings of confusion while they're getting us all emotional over these characters.   So many crazy things happening, but we still are invested and still think it is awesome!   I'm going to stop this preamble now so that we can get into the EXTRA LARGE RECAP (due to the 2 hour premiere).  Don't worry guys, I took the day off from work, so I put my all into this!

Here we go:

Flight 815 - Take 2
(No Crash Zone)
When we last left off: Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley, Miles, Jin, Sawyer and Juliet were trapped in 1977.  Jack and rallied the troops, based on a plan by Daniel Faraday (RIP), to detonate a nuclear weapon and the future location of the SWAN HATCH in an attempt to prevent Oceanic 815 from ever crashing on the Island and changing everything we have ever learned in the past 5 seasons.  (From Jack's perspective, changing all of the bad things that have happened)   Well, in our new storytelling device of the season, it looks like we are going to see what happened if indeed that came true.   We do not know if these stories we see will turn out to be relevant or if it is really just serving a greater purpose to show how these characters are connected.   How they are destined to work together.   So, fellow LOSTIES, let's dive into the realm of Bizarro LOST!
Jack's Story
We begin the episode with Jack looking out the window of Oceanic 815.  His hair is noticeably longer than it was in the Season 1 Pilot episode, but I think we're are just expected to accept changes in hairstyles for the sake of the story!  His initial moments are eerily similar to the moments we witnessed in Season 1 with distinct differences.   We begin Jack's story:


  • Jack makes a face like he is confused what is happening.  Maybe having some sort of Deja Vu or something.  But then he is interrupted in thought by Cindy the flight attendant.  Their conversation is very similar to the pilot episode except she only hands him one vodka bottle instead of 2.  And Jack doesn't talk about breaking Federal regulations.  

  • There is turbulence and Jack braces, looking nervous.  Across the aisle is Rose!  In this reality, Rose is the one that tells Jack "It's Normal"  (it was the reverse in the pilot episode).  She talks about Bernard in the bathroom, Jack still offers to keep her company.   Charlie does not race by cutting off Jack in this scenario.  There is more turbulence and this would be when Desmond was off killing Kelvin and couldn't make it to hit the button.  The plane would split apart and land on the island.  But no, there is no crash.   Jack still bracing for impact, Rose tells him "you can let go".     Jack - "I guess we made it"  Rose - "Yeah, We sure did."  Seemed like Rose and Jack were in the know on something here of what happened in their previous lives.    
  • And Bernard comes back from the bathroom!  He told Rose he's going to hold it next time and how he almost died in the bathroom.  They get all lovey dovey and tell each other they missed each other for the 10 minutes they were apart.  I wonder if Rose has cancer in this alternate world? 
  • Jack heads to the bathroom (I thought for a second he was heading to 42F to see Ana Lucia, but we can be thankful that didn't happen!). 
  • Note that Rose is reading Outdoor Woodsman Magazine and on the back of the magazine there is a shout-out to X-files "The Truth is Out There"   Could be very relevant to this show as well, but it better not be aliens! 

  • He takes a good look in the mirror and then notices a crazy red mark on his neck.  Is he noticing this for the first time?  Could it be from the 1977 incident or is this something that happened in the alternate world?
  • Jack returns to his seat and who is sitting in his row but Desmond Hume!  Woaaaaaa weird!  Desmond is reading a book called Midnight Children by Salmon Rushdie.  A book about India's transition from British Colonialism to Independence.  It is also referred to as having "magical realism" on ol' Wikipedia.  That seems more relevant than Indian Independence but what do I know?!

  • Desmond, moved to Jack's row because the guy in his row was snoring since they took off.  The flight attendants told him no one was sitting there.   Jack looks perplexed.  He apparently recognizes Desmond.  And asks if they know each other.  Desmond does not recognize Jack.   Hmmm, I wonder if they even met at the stadium in this alternate world?  Maybe in this world, Desmond doesn't run away from things and is happily with Penny?    But the irony that should not be looked past is Desmond's signature line he said in so many episodes "See you in another life brothaaaaa"   Hmmmmm, did the writers know what they were doing all along?   Was that line in there as a clue?   Or are they just making us think that!?  (genius either way!)   Anyway, Desmond and Jack introduce themselves and that's that.  
The Island
We need to pause from Jack's story because at this moment, the camera goes out the window and down to the water below the plane.  It doesn't stop at the surface but keeps on moving!  Going under further and further until we're seeing familiar sites like Othersville/Dharmaville and a swingset and finally stopping at the 4 toed statue FOOT of Tawaret (still only the foot in 2004 and not the rest of the statue).   The Island is under water!!!  WHAAAAT?????  When did this happen?  Is it because of the bomb blowing up?  Did it blow the island under water?  It doesn't appear so if everyone is alive and well in present day on NON-bizarro LOST land!  (who are we kidding? It's all bizarre, but it's more normal that what we're seeing in these flash-somethings or whatever)     Perhaps, when the island moves it can go under water?   At the end of season 4, it did look like the Island when UNDER water as opposed to disappearing.  There was kind of a drain look to the water when it disappeared.   But if the Island is under water, could there be anyone living on it?   One would think not.   Or, in this version of reality, has the Island been underwater for a very very long time?   And if there are many versions of LOST timelines is there only one version of Jacob and the Man in Black?   Perhaps the "It always ends the same, they come, fight, corrupt, destroy" thing has to do with this alternate version of reality.   Maybe there are different versions of the Oceanic 815 storyline that "always seem to end the same".    They 815ers will still end up on the island in this reality too.  But how will they get to an underwater island?     Man, I'm confused, but I love speculation!  And based on them showing the Man in Black and Jacob saying that exact dialog in the "Previously on LOST" section of the episode, it makes me think that this IS what is happening.   Why it's happening?  You got me.   But "it only ends once, and anything that happens before that is just progress."   Seems to mean a little more thinking this way doesn't it? 


  • Note: we definitely saw the DHARMA Shark underwater again!  So this proves DHARMA still existed in this version of reality.

Jack's story (continued)
  • In bizarro land, Jack apparently has a small bladder.  We've never seen the man go to the bathroom once in seasons 1 to 5, but he's on his 2nd trip now!   He runs into Edward Mars, the air marshall waiting for Kate to get out of the bathroom.   When she does, Kate bumps into Jack (more on that later), and then they look at each other for a brief second.  
  • Later in the flight, Cindy is on the intercom looking for a doctor on board.  DESTINY people!  Jack is called into action to save someone.   Jack heads up to the front bathroom.  I think we all know it's Charlie at this point!  But the door is locked and they can't get it open.  Sayid comes up and kicks the door in.   Jack and Sayid working together to solve a problem.  Here we go!   There's Charlie, and he's not breathing.  There is something blocking his air passage.  Jack starts asking for a pen and he can't find his that was in his pocket (more on that later!).  But you may not recall, but Boone suggested to Jack that they use a pen to create an air passage for Rose.   Jack told Boone it was a good idea, but only to get him distracted with something else while the doc saved everyone himself!  Jack reaches into Charlie's mouth and further back and is able to latch on and pull out a bag of heroin.  He tried to swallow the evidence?  Dude, the toilet was a better idea!     
  • Charlie was not thankful for his rescue though as he was taken in cuffs by on air security/police.  "I was supposed to die man!"  Another ironic thing as Charlie did die and Desmond had visions of it many times and told Charlie that he's supposed to die.  

  • Jack returns to his seat and Desmond is gone!  What???  Rose said she and Bernard were sleeping so didn't see him get up.  Was he ever even there?  Weird.  
  • Captain Seth Norris gets on the mic (I thought Lapidus might be flying 815 in this scenario, guess not!) and says they're going to land shortly. 
  • When the plane lands, everyone gets off except Jack and Locke stay behind.  Jack grabs his bag and looks a row behind him, and Locke looks at him and they do a head nod exchange.  Very similar to when they got on flight 815 in the season finale of season 1.   It was very meaningful then because of the polar opposite relationship they developed on the Island, and it was meaningful to see it again in an alternate world where they could have a chance to have a clean slate.  But more on that later as well. 
  • So things get interesting here.  We see all the 815ers we know and love hanging out at LAX.  Jack is summoned to the customer service counter.  It turns out there was a mix-up with his father's coffin.  It didn't get on the plane.  Immediately we are thinking that in "Opposite Land" after Jack's emotional speech in the Sydney airport, that they did put the coffin on the plane because Jack didn't have the papers.  Ugh, that Chrissy! (representative of Oceanic in Sydney)  She couldn't do Jack a favor.   But that isn't what happened, Jack finds out that Oceanic cannot find the body anywhere!  They have no idea where it is.  WHAT?!?   Okay, so Christian still dies in this reality. Does that eliminate any foul-play in Sydney that led to his death?  I'm still not so sure.  I want more info there still!   But his body just vanishes?  That sounds like the work of the Island doesn't it?    So could the body perhaps have been on the plane, but then it FLASHED off of the plane like some of the crew did on Ajira 316?  But what would have happened, it flash onto the Island underwater?   So now we have OFF-Island, Alternate world Mysteries going on.   Are you keeping track of all this?  We have 16 hours left to resolve all of these issues!   But I am still loving that we're getting more puzzlers!  I have faith it will be cleared up by the end in an ambiguous sort of way!  (like that line? I made it up mysel!)
  • More on Jack's story later

Random Notes (Hurley, Sawyer, Sayid)

  • On the flight, Arzt recognizes Hurely as the owner of Mr. Cluck's chicken.  This is in line with the commercial we saw from Comic-Con over the summer with Hurley advertising the new Outback Roasters and referring to himself as the luckiest guy alive.   Arzt asks Hurley how he got to have the money to buy Mr. Cluck's.  Hurley tells him he won the lottery.   
  • Sawyer, listening in, advises Hurley to not tell people he's won the lottery or they'll take advantage of him.  This is when Hurley refers to himself as the luckiest man alive!  Obviously, we're meant to take from this that in this version of reality, Hurley is the exact opposite of what we have known for 5 seasons where he thought he was cursed (and clearly bad things happened around him but never to him!)
  • Sawyer gets in a nickname in bizarro land too.  He calls Cindy Earhart!  Hysterical!! 
  • We should note that we do see Sayid staring at pictures of Nadia that he received from the FBI.  He helped them prevent a terrorist attack in Sydney and lost a friend to suicide in the process.   Chances are he'll probably track her down.   
Kate's Story

  • When Kate gets back to her seat, she has a Lasagna waiting for her.  But of course, Ed won't let her use her silverware.  She puts her hands under the seat-back tray and looks like she's doing something suspicious. 
  • Sawyer walks by and exchanges glances with Kate.  He smiles and likes what he sees! 
  • When they get off the plane, they are going through customs where Edward declares his murderer!   So she still killed someone, but not her father Wayne.  If the comic-con videos are true, then in this reality, she blew up a building where Wayne was a respectable plumber.  But Wayne was on a date with Austen's mother and sent his apprentice Ryan Milner to work instead.  Ryan is the one that blows up in a building instead of Wayne in his house.  We may find out if this is actually true in a Kate-centric episode (I would say when that is happening, but I would hate to be minorly spoilerish!)  Instead Check out my comic-con post for the video on Kate (and Hurley if you want to watch that too)
  • Anyway, Kate requests to go to the bathroom.  Ed doesn't want to allow this but eventually caves in.  He goes into the ladies room with her and stays there while she goes into the stall.   At this point, Kate takes out a pen.  Yep, she stole it from Jack when they bumped into each other on the plane!   She takes it apart to work on getting her cuffs off, but the spring falls under and out of the stall.   Ed sees it and tries to get Kate to open the door.  Kate busts through the stall and knocks Ed unconscious.  YEAH KATE!   Some girls come into the ladies room and Kate tells them she was attacked.  She runs to the elevator which Sawyer just happens to be on.  He holds the door for her.

  • Sawyer gets all flirty with Kate right away.  He spotted the handcuffs on Kate and decided to help her out.  Some TSA folks come onto the elevator at the next stop.  They get a call in for a 341.  It was hysterical when Sawyer asked about the 341.  "What's a 341?"  "That's confidential"  "Well if it's confidential then how will I know if I see one?"   Ahh good times!  
  • We see Kate hiding out at Baggage Claim.  Sayid and Arzt are there collecting their bags.  Cops are looking for her.  She sneaks out and tries to get in a taxi cab.  But Frogurt is there to ruin things.  "Hey there's a line!"  So she ends up behind Hurley in line.  But then she sees Ed, and Ed sees her, so she darts for a cab and gets in it.   The cab driver "I already have a passenger!".  Kate pulls out a gun and tells him to go.  (I guess she got the gun from Ed, but I missed that!)   But hey, guess who else was in the cab?  CLAIRE!!!!  She's back!!!   And looking very scared.  Now, Claire was on her way to Los Angeles to give her unborn baby away for adoption.  Will things change in this reality?  As we see, it looks like Kate and Claire's paths are tied together for the foreseeable alternate future.  Which is very ironic because Kate was the one raising Aaron off of the island in the other timeline.   Crazy stuff!  I am totally digging all this wacky stuff they're throwing at us.  I just hope it all makes sense in the end!  





Jin/Sun's Story

  • We have a brief scene with Jin and Sun on the plane.  Sun is staring longingly at Rose and Bernard who seem to be so in love.   Once again, Jin and Sun are in an unhappy marriage.    Jin instructs Sun to button her sweater (just like old times)    I must note, it was very impressive that they got Jin and Sun's hair looking the way it did in season 1.   Even Hurley looks a little Season 1-ish.  Amazing what no beard will do for the guy! 
  • At customs, Jin gets questioned about the watch.  The watch he was tasked with bringing to Los Angeles, that Michael ended up getting on the Island.  (Speaking of: noticeably missing from the episode are Michael and Walt.  But, they ARE having a hard time figuring out a way to bring Walt back with his age.  Hopefully, they'll think of something! We need answers!)    
  • Anyway, because Jin doesn't speak english he cannot explain what his business is in the US.  Sun does know english but she's not leading on that she does.  They open Jin's bag and there is a boatload of cash in it.  Jin was planning (in season 1) to flee Korea to start a new life with Sun in Los Angeles.  Of course, there was that american dude at the Sydney airport that knew Korean and advised him not to do that.  Will we see him again in THIS reality?   
  • Anyway, they take Jin in for questioning.  They tell Sun that if she understands what is going on that she should clear it up.  But she continues to say she doesn't understand english.  I hope they don't drag that one out forever in this alternate land!       
Locke's Story

  • We first see Locke on Oceanic 815 reading a safety manual.   Boone is there!  He tells Locke he's wasting his time and that if the plane goes down, there is not a good chance they'll survive.  (Lots of plays on words in this discussion on what we know about the other Oceanic 815 and the 48 + 23 survivors of the fuselage and tail section).    Locke argues that they could have a safe water landing.  
  • Note: Neil Frogurt is sitting between Boone and Locke.  And there is an empty seat where Shannon would be.

  • Locke explains to Boone that he was on a Walkabout.  In this version of reality, he did get to go on the walkabout. (Or he at least lied to Boone and really didn't get to go)  But he explains all of the stuff he did about hunting for food, setting up camp, exploring, you name it.  Sounds like exactly what they all did on the Island.   Boone makes 2 comments.  One, that he never would survive doing that (ironic because he did for a little while, but then died because of Locke's crazy missions for the Island)    The 2nd comment was that if the plane does go down, he is going to stick with Locke!  Ironic again, because Boone did team up with Locke on the Island.    There is probably more than irony and jokes here though.  It just seems that these people were meant to be in each other's lives.   But, if Boone died in season 1, maybe he is not part of the Island's (or Jacob/MIB's) ultimate plan.   So it will leave Boone time to go be a vampire on Vampire Diaries again! 
  • Anyway, Boone tells Locke that he went down to Australia to save his sister Shannon from an abusive boyfriend, but it turns out she didn't want to be saved.  So in this version, he leaves Shannon there.  So maybe in this version he didn't have intimate relations with his sister! ewwwww!   This also was due to a casting issue.  The writers said they still would like to work something out with Maggie Grace, but the actress was booked at the time of filming the premiere.
  • I did begin to think that maybe Locke wasn't paralyzed in this world, but he certainly was and after his exchange with Jack, they brought in the airplane wheel chair to get Locke out.   Ironically, in season 1, they didn't have one to get him on so the crew had to carry him onto the plane. 
Another awesome Jack and Locke discussion



  • So Jack is in the lost baggage area of the airport.  He is talking to his mother on the phone saying that they can't have the funeral without the body and he doesn't know what's going on.  He says he will keep her posted. 
  • Locke is there and also lost a bag (turns out to be his knives.  Remember that creepy scene when Locke first opens the case and shows everyone the knives?)  
  • Locke gets all spiritual when Jack says they lost his father.  "How could they know where he is? They only lost a body."   Implications of an afterlife and also irony again at play because Locke has been murdered in the other land but his thoughts carry on in another form.   We're getting there! 
  • Jack asks Locke what happened to get him in the wheelchair.  (note: In all 5 seasons of LOST, Jack never found out that Locke was paralyzed before the Island.  Only Sawyer and Rose knew from the 815ers.  Unless Sawyer told people off camera, but I doubt he did)    Jack mentions that he's a spinal surgeon.  Locke says that what happened to him is irreversible.  The miracle doctor says that "nothing is irreversible."  Jack offers Locke a surgical consult on the house!  awwwww Did anyone else get a little caught up in the moment here?   Jack and Locke are interacting.  Somehow they're connected, but this time there are no life and death stakes of the island and they are almost friends towards each other.  WOW,   This show blows my mind!  
  • So the question is, did Locke still get pushed out a window (my guess is yes).  Did Jacob still revive him from an almost deceased slumber?  (again, I'm thinking yes but the underwater island thing still confuses me)  So we are left with many questions.
Many questions of how this alternate universe will play out, and how it ties into what his happening in the universe we know.  I'm digging the new storytelling device though.  Even though it is much like what some of what we guessed, there is a lot of intrigue to how this plays out and what it all means.  I keep going back to the Jacob/Man in Black discussion.  It has to be relevant to the situation.   Let's stay tuned!  (and definitely share your thoughts in the comments)   Of course, we have much more to discuss!  



Jacob's Death Aftermath (Man in Black)
When Season 5 ended, too much had happened for me to think that there would be a complete reset in store for the 815ers.  Especially the entire storyline with the Man In Black assuming the role of John Locke and those crazy "Shadow of the Statue" people marching to the 4 toed foot.  Let's not forget Ben killing Jacob!   Way too much happened there to just say "okay, forget it.  Let's reset time and never address this again!"  So here we are, in the exact moments after Jacob's death.  Finding out what happens next:

Ben and Man in Black (Locke)
I haven't decided what to call this incarnation of Locke yet, so I may change throughout this recap, but you'll know who I'm talking about! 

  • So Ben is staring at the empty flame where the Man in Blocke (hahaha, I'm so funny!) kicked Jacob.  But, there is NOTHING there.  No Jacob, no nothing.  Wha?   Fake Locke tells Ben to stop staring and that Jacob is gone. 

  • Fake Locke cut a piece of red tapestry on the floor to wipe off the knife.    
  • Ben is confused why Jacob didn't fight back.  Aren't we all?  I had suggested that perhaps Jacob has some Obi-Wan like tendencies in my previous blog.  Maybe when he dies he becomes more powerful than you could possibly imagine!  (and from the looks of it, it looks like he might be communicating through Hurley since Hurley can talk to Ghosts.  But we'll get there!)
  • MIB/Locke instructs Ben to go outside and summon Richard.   He needs to talk to him and it's none of Ben's concern.  
Outside the Statue

  • Meanwhile, everyone is still trying to cope with what has been happening outside.  Ilana and crew have revealed that John Locke is still dead!  His body is still laying on the beach.  
  • Sun asks Frank about who Ilana and crew are.  Frank says all that he knows is they knocked him out and brought them along, burned a cabin in the jungle and claim to be the good guys.  They still aren't buying it.  But, we really don't know who the good guys are do we?   It seems like Team Jacob is the good side guy right now, but it could be all an elaborate tease! (I tried to not do the Twilight reference, but it was there for the taking!)    Anyway, Frank and Sun are being cautious with these new folk.
  • Richard is trying to keep Ilana, Bram and crew from entering the statue since Jacob didn't summon anyone.  Ilana says they are there to protect Jacob.  
  • Ben comes out as his usual lying self and claims that everything is fine.  He tries to get Richard to come in to talk to Locke, but then Richard drags Ben over to see the dead Locke!  Oh boy!  
  • Richard tries to get information out of Ben on what happened in the statue.  Ben says he has to go in to find out.   Instead Bram takes control and forces Ben in with the rest of the crew (minus Ilana).  
Mutiny in the Statue

  • Faux Locke sees Ben return and asks where Richard is.  Bram comes in behind.  Flocke assumes they are Jacob's bodyguards and lets them know that he is already dead so there is nothing to protect.  That is when things get interesting.   Bram shoots FLOCKE, but they find the bullet bent and on the ground.   And he is nowhere to be found.  Oh but do you hear that noise?  It's SMOKEY!!!!  
  • Smokey comes in and whoops the living daylights out of the crew.  But Bram, has seen this before.  He gets ash out of his pocket or something and creates a circle around him.  Ahhhh the CIRCLE OF ASH around the cabin was meant to protect Jacob!?   Or the Cabin?   And they saw that the ash had been broken and that someone else was using the cabin.  All makes sense if it was smokey!  (Christian Shephard....oh no...where is Claire!!??  I'm getting ahead of myself) 
  • Anyway, Smokey is too smart to be stopped by the ash.  It forms a fist and pushes the ceiling and gets Bram out of the circle.  Bram meets a very bloody death.   In fact, all of the crew besides Ben that were in there met their demise. 









  • Flocke returns and says "I'm sorry you had to see me that way"!!!!
  • And there we go, THE ANSWERS are coming folks!  No more beating around the bush.   As many of us speculated, The Smoke Monster = The Man in Black = Christian Shephard = New John Locke (and Yemi and Alex).   All dead people whose bodies are on the Island.   Smokey/MIB has been using them all as pawns in his game, none more than John Locke who he made think it was his destiny to do something special with his life.   But, we're only seeing half of the story.  Jacob was involved somehow in Locke's life too so we have yet to see that play out.    But wow, we certainly got more information on SMOKEY!   I wonder what would have happened if he pulled Locke into that hole in the season 1 finale?  And what happened when Locke first came into contact with the monster during the "Walkabout" episode?   Ahhh good stuff.    But a hearty pat on the back for everyone that connected the dots from season 1 to 5 to figure out who the Man in Black truly was.   Of course, we still don't have a name and we still don't know how he got that way!  16 hours left folks.  16 hours. 
  • So Ben accuses Smokey/Flocke/MIB of being the monster!   He accuses the godly/devilish being to using him to kill Jacob.  Why couldn't Smokey do it himself?  Another question to be resolved? 
  • Smokey changes the subject on Ben saying "He was very confused when you killed him"  but not referring to Jacob.  He was referring to Locke.  Very creepy to watch Terry O'Quinn in the form of Locke talking to Ben about how Ben killed Locke.  But creepily awesome and more Emmy material!  Smokey referred to Locke as a very sad man.  A weak, pathetic, broken (irreparable) man.  There's that irreversible theme again in play.  The only admirable thing about him was that he was the only one of the Oceanic 815ers that didn't want to leave the Island.   The only one who realized how pitiful his life was.   So, is that the connection between the 815ers?  They all had miserable lives and came to the Island for a better one?   We have always known that all of the 815ers were on redemption paths.  So this is nothing new, but nice to hear it in dialogue on the show!  
  • But Smokey wants exactly the opposite of what John wanted.  He wants to go home!  What on earth does that mean?  How does this ageless creature just leave the island?  Can he be uncursed to not be the monster?  And if so, then what?   Where is home?  When is home?   Or does he just want to die?  Is death his home?   And what did Jacob have to do with Smokey's current status.  Perhaps he made him that way just like he made richard an ageless being?  Lots of things to speculate, but we need more info.   I'm always interested to hear comments though! 
Outside
  • The final scene with Flocke/Smokey has him coming out of the statue.   Lapidus says "I see it but I still don't believe it" (join the club)   Flocke yells at everyone "I'm very disappointed in all of you!"  
  • Ilana has the gun pointed at Flocke, but Richard advises her not to shoot. 

  • Flocke sees Richard and tells him that it was good to see him out of those chains.  Ahhhhh, did anyone else flash on the Black Rock in season 1?  All of the dead bodies chained to the walls of the ship?  Slaves?  Everyone has been assuming that Richard was a member of the Black Rock.  I have no doubt we'll be finding out exactly what happened to him.   But Richard definitely recognized who Fake Locke truly was.  The Locke imposter grabs Richard and walks away with him.   
  • So like I said before, where on earth is Claire right now?   Does Fake Locke have her hostage somewhere?  Is she still alive or are we only going to see alive Claire and Locke in alternate reality land?    Lots of questions...16 hours! 


The Incident Aftermath (Island)
Okay, so we saw what happened if Oceanic 815 never crashed (and will continue seeing) and this seems like it was Incident related.  But now we'll see what happened to our present-minded people when jughead blew.   


Everyone Wakes Up



  • We first see Kate and the audio is very muffled.  I'm sure I wasn't the only one reaching for the remote and turning it up.   She is stuck up in a tree.  She climbs down and is wearing the same clothes she was in 1977.   She runs into Miles who is still wearing the DHARMA jumpsuit.  He cannot hear anything she is saying.  Kate's ears are improving.  Kate sees the Swan Station's main door and realizes they are back and it "didn't work".  She runs over and sees the giant crater from when the hatch imploded after Desmond turned the failsafe key.  
  • They find Sawyer and Jack.  Jack is informed that the hatch is there.  "They Built it??"  Before we know it Sawyer punches Jack into the crater.  "IT DIDN'T WORK!"   He clearly is upset because he has lost Juliet (or has he?)   Jack apologizes but is still confused why it didn't work.  
  • Meanwhile, Hurley, Sayid and Jin are there with the DHARMA Van (I guess it moved in time with them).  Jin explains that he's gone through the whole hearing problem before.  He thinks they moved through time.   Hurley overhears Sawyer screaming at Jack and sends Jin to go get Sayid help.   Sayid is still bleeding from the gunshot wound he got in the Battle with DHARMA.  
  • So before we move on, this is always what I envisioned happening.  I figured they played their role in 1977 that they were always supposed to play and then they would be returned to the present day.   It seems that is what happened, but there is definitely a twist with the parallel universe thing going on.   So maybe the Incident did work for another version of them, just not them specifically.   I wonder if this really IS like the Matrix (as many have suspected).  But not like the AWESOME Matrix, but the Matrix 2 and 3 were there were many versions of THE ONE and only the version we saw was the one that succeeded.   Of course, where the Matrix 2 and 3 were awful, LOST would succeed!   But maybe there's more to it than that! 
  • We should also point out that there is no sign of Rose and Bernard.  Unless, they beamed back to 2007 on the other side of the Island.  You know, in retirement village.   There is still a chance that they could be the Adam and Eve skeletons in the cave (from season 1), but the timeline doesn't work out for it to be them.   The bodies were decaying for roughly 40 years.   And they had the black and white stones with them.    We'll definitely get that answer this season, but who knows when?    Anyway, Rose and Bernard, again are missing!  
Hurley, Sayid and Special Guest Jacob!

  • Hurley looks after Sayid while Jin goes to get Jack.  Sayid rambles on about what will happen when he dies.  His life is unredeemable for the things he has done.  
  • And then Jacob shows up.  He is there as a ghost that only Hurley can see.  He tells Hurley that he died an hour ago.  "That sucks dude"  Only Hurley could get a laugh out of that! 



  • Jacob tells Hurley that Jack will not be able to fix Sayid and that he must be brought to the temple.  Jacob knows that Jin had been to the temple wall before (in 1988 with Roussea's crew) and instructs Hurley to tell Jin to take him there.  
  • Jacob also introduces himself to Hurley.   At this point I thought of Hurley being able to see the cabin in season 4 and being important in Jacob's plan.  (of course, now I thought that smokey was in the cabin.  But maybe the circle of ash was intact then.  So was Christian Shephard working for Jacob?  Ugh, I'm so confused!!)   
  • Jacob instructs Hurley to bring the guitar as well.  Ahhh finally, we get to see what that's all about! 
  • Jin returns to get the DHARMA Van and bring Sayid and the Van to Jack and crew.   Hurley asks about the wall with the hole in it and the French team.   Jin knew what he was talking about.  Hurley says he's going to need to go there. 



Mission Rescue Juliet
  • Jin arrives to the Hatch site and tells Jack that Sayid still needs help. 
  • Kate is looking around and hears Juliet screaming under the rubble in the crater.  Woa, she's still alive! 
  • They can't get to her, the beams are too heavy.  They send Jin to get the van to try and pull the beam off with the chains.  
  • Sawyer tells Jack if she dies he is going to kill him.  He looks pretty serious! 
  • They do manage to get the beam off and Sawyer dives underneath to Juliet.   They have a sweet and sad discussion as she lays there helpless in his arms.  She tells him that she hit the bomb.  That she wanted him to live a life off of the island.   She realizes that they're still on the island but Sawyer tells her that they're all going to go home together now.  


  • Juliet then starts talking a little strange and says that they'll go for Coffee sometime.  And that they can go dutch.  This is more relevant in a little bit.  
  • She then requests a kiss from Sawyer and you know it will be the last.  "You got it Blondie"  everyone gets welled up.  
  • She then says she has to tell Sawyer something very very important.  But she never gets that word out.  And thus, we say goodbye to another great character on LOST.  RIP Juliet.  Maybe we will see you in another life sista!!!
  • Sawyer cries a bit then brings the body out of the rubble looking directly at Jack "You did this!!!"   
  • What did "It worked" mean?  The whole coffee thing.  Between worlds? 
The Team Splits up

  • Jack checks out Sayid and realizes that he can't save him.  Hurley chimes in and knows he can.  Before Jack can get one of his speeches out.  Hurley lectures him and says that Jacob told him how.  Jack had never heard the name Jacob before but Hurley said, "if you can't save him you have let me try!"   And new-fangled Jack lets him.
  • Sawyer says he's not going with the rest of them to the temple and that he's going to bury Juliet.  He asks Miles to stick around (even though Kate offers).   He also says he's not planning on meeting up with them later.  
  • I did like when Miles asked if they're going to play "Koombaya" when they get to the Temple, after seeing the guitar.  
  • And so the 2 teams embark on their journeys.  

Sawyer's Mourning

  • Sawyer and Miles finish burying Juliet.  But then Sawyer asks him to talk to her to find out the last thing she said.  Once again Miles says that it doesn't work that way.  Yeah, Miles we know, you feel their last thoughts.  Well it basically achieves the same goal, right?  Speaking of which, didn't Smokey know John Locke's last thoughts?   Granted, he knew all of the thoughts but is there a connection here?  
  • Anyway, Sawyer forces Miles down to the grave and makes him work his magic.   Miles does get a read on Juliet.  And 2 words never made us wonder what is going on more than the 2 that Juliet was thinking.   "IT WORKED!!!" 
  • ummm.....what?   So Juliet must have passed out or was between worlds or something when she was thinking about the coffee and splitting the bill.   Did she see her and Sawyer having coffee?    Are these 2 realities linked somehow?  Clearly Bizarro Jack recognized Desmond and seems to be a little off with everything.  Getting scared when the plane shook, etc...    What exactly is the connection?   I'm sure we'll find out.   But IT WORKED?   Consider me awesomely baffled! 
Save Sayid

  • When they get to the Temple Wall, Hurley instructs them all that they're going under the wall and not through it.   They crawl into the same hole that Flocke and Ben went into.  (we might want to note now for certain that we never saw Fake Locke and Smokey at the same time when Ben went to see the monster.  We also should note that this is why Locke knew where to go to find the monster.  Because he WAS the monster!)  
  • We see where Ben fell through the floor to Smokey's lair.  Hmm if Smokey was the security system for the temple, then why are the people inside so scared of him?  (seems like there's a story there.  But we haven't even gotten to the people inside the temple yet!) 
  • They run into the skeleton of Montaun and his missing arm!   He had a book, I didn't catch the name but I'll update this if I find it.  
  • Long story short, we start hearing whispers, Kate disappears (Cindy style) and eventually everyone including Jack gets nabbed up by THE OTHERS!  But not just any old OTHERS!  Those crazy stealthy others that I always wanted to know more about!   And now, we may just get our chance.   Because Jack and crew are taken out of the cave and to the grounds outside of the TEMPLE!  There it is!  THE TEMPLE!!!!  I figured this was a series finale type of reveal.  But there it is!
The Temple (Hurely, "Guess we found the Temple")



  • We see a Japanese man come out and appear to be a type of leader in The Others organization.  He is a well known Japanese actor that was cast, but we did not receive a name.  Hiroyuki Sanada is the actor's name.  We'll call him Japanese Guy for now!  He has a translator and it's John Hawkes who played Sol Star on Deadwood.  (Even if that show never did have an ending at least the actors found great roles on LOST!)   I was going to call him glasses but then consulted IMDB to remember that his name will turn out to be Lennon.  Makes sense since he kind of resembles John Lennon with those glasses! 


  • Japanese guy wants to know who these people are.   And there's long haired Cindy explaining they were on the FIRST PLANE with her.  Oceanic 815.    I really would love to see how Cindy became assimilated into THE OTHERS!   The Japanese man instructs them all to be shot!

  • But Hurley yells "Jacob sent us!"  and said that they are supposed to help their friend. 
  • He proves it with the guitar case.  Inside the guitar case is an extra large Ankh which we have seen in episodes last season.  Tawaret has them on the statue, Amy's husband wore won in 1974 before the Others killed him, and now this one in the guitar.  Of course, the Japanese guy just broke the thing open to reveal a letter.   

  • In a past season of LOST we may not have gotten any information on the letter but when the Others start helping out our LOSTIEs and Hurley demands to know what the letter says?  We know it's the season of answers because they gave us something right off the bat.   Lennon says that the letter says if they don't help Sayid, they're all in a lot of trouble.   Hmmm, well, maybe we still need more information! 
  • They bring Sayid inside the temple to THE FOUNTAIN.   Yes, most of us start thinking "I knew it!  The fountain of youth is on the Island!"  but come on, maybe it's just a special LOST fountain and nothing to do with the actual mythical Fountain of Youth!   Anyway, the water is red in the fountain and they are wondering why it isn't clear.  Huh?   No idea what that's about but should we assume it has something to do with Jacob dying?  
  • Lennon asks who did this to Sayid and Jack takes the blame, not for shooting but for getting him in the situation.  Lennon mentions there will be risks and Jack instructs them to do what they have to do.   Hmmmm Risks?   Well, either he lives or dies right?   Risks?  Yeah, something else is going on here, right? 
  • They remove Sayid's jumpsuit and put him in the water.  There is some crazy large hourglass and once they put Sayid in face first and submerge him, they turn the hourglass over.    Sayid begins to struggle.   The LOSTIES are yelling at them to pull him up and that he looks like he's okay.   Jack runs over and Japanese Guy levels him!   Gotta love Hurley's "Can unconscious people hold breath?" 
  • The hourglass empties and they pull Sayid out.   And eventually pronounce him dead.   Huh?  Sayid is dead too?  What?  They're killing people off left and right!  Hold on...let's talk a little more.
  • Jack refuses to believe it and goes over and starts compressions and mouth to mouth.  Very reminiscent of him saving Charlie in season 1 with Kate telling him to stop.  But this time, eventually Jack did stop.  
  • Some time passes.  Cindy calls for Zach and Emma to bring them all something to drink.  I thought we might see those kids again 3 years older!  
  • We see that the others picked up Sawyer and Miles too.  Apparently, Sawyer took 4 of them out before they finally hit him with a rock.  Whatever that letter said, they need all of these guys!  Of course, we should note that we haven't seen Jacob touch Miles prior to the Island.  Then again, Miles was born on the Island so I don't know where I'm going with this!  Moving on! 
  • Hurley is summoned to talk to Lennon and the Japanese guy.  We soon find out that the Japanese guy does speak english but he doesn't like the way it tastes on his tongue.  (that was a good time!) 
  • They wanted to know what Jacob told Hurley.  He told them that Jacob was dead but thought that they already knew.  Once they heard that....the whole Temple community went into full alert.  TO YOUR POSTS!!!  PREPARE THE ASH!!  They started pouring ash everywhere.   Did anyone else start thinking of Widmore talking to Locke  "A War is coming, and the wrong side is going to win if you don't go back."   hmmmm  All of the Oceanic Crew or just a deceased John? 
  • Lennon tells Hurley that they're not trying to keep them all in there, it's to keep HIM out! (Smokey)
  • Later on - Hurley talks to dead Sayid and says "goodbye dude."  Miles is looking very strangely at the whole encounter.  Did he sense something weird about Sayid?  
  • Sawyer wakes up and asks Kate where they are.  They get a good laugh about being captured by The Others again, but this time they seem to be helping.   Kate apologizes about Juliet.  And she tries to let him know that Jack was just trying to help.  Sawyer says he isn't going to kill Jack and said that he deserves to suffer just like all of them.  
  • Lennon returns, this time to summon Jack.  They want to speak to Jack privately.  Jack says to tell him right there or to leave him alone.  The man is clearly broken right now.  Lennon says they were asking politely but they'll take him by force.  Jack looks ready to get in another fight when Hurley screams.  JACK!!!! 
  • Everyone turns around.  Sayid is awake.  "WHAT HAPPENED?"

BOOM LOST!!!!!

Wow!!!  What???  Okay, so is that even Sayid?  What was up with the red water? Why was Jacob so determined to get him to the Temple?  What really was on that letter?   Why did they ask Hurley for more information on what Jacob told him?  Here's the question - Smokey has assumed the role of Locke.  Would Jacob want Sayid's body?   Does that make any sense?   And would we be terribly sad if Sayid was dead for real?  I sure would be.  The producers always say Dead is Dead.  And he definitely died.  Oh boy.   Oh and I guess they probably put young Ben in that same fountain when he was shot by Sayid.  (ahhh karma....dharma...neato!)     Anyway, the good news is that we still will see more of John Locke and Sayid Jarrah as their actual selves in this alternate reality.   So they're not totally out of our lives.   I am very intrigued with how this season has started and I'm excited to start reading what everyone else thinks!   So with that I will leave it to the comments.  Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and see you next week folks! It's good to be back! 

ENDING CREDITS





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200 comments:

Mike V. said...

Interview with TEAM DARLTON with Doc Jensen: After the premiere last night

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

Rukshan said...

Hey! Glad to be back here and as always you've done a great recap.

What an episode! Im glad I didn't wait till Friday to watch it on TV here in the UK, ended up watching online.

I think the H Bomb made a rip in time, Jack and the gang managed to save them selves and live a normal life while also creating a alternate reality where they are in the island :s weird. I agree that Juliet may have seen the alternate reality while she was knocked out, and that's how she refereed to having coffee and going dutch,May be she meets Sawyer after he lands in LA X (but isn't she in the island in the Oceanic 815 times) or does she take the sub there some time after...

That temple looked really cool.I guess "the others" and Jacob chill there while smokey/Man in black (MIB) tries to get in. My guess is that Jacob rescues people who get to the island and keeps them at the temple, and thats how Richard met him, when he was rescued from the Black Rock. While MIB wants them dead so that he has there "spirit"may be once he eliminates all of Jacobs followers, he can go home,where ever that may be.

Sayeed did die (but I have to say Jack's CPR technique was very poor,I expected the producers to have paid attention to a minor detail like that) but I guess that fountain revived him or Jacob took his body... Guess will find out..


well that was my ramblings.. looking fw to all the eps to come and your recaps.Keep p the good work!

Mike V. said...

Thanks Rushan! I guess I should have read the interview with DARLTON last night before writing, but I like to write my recaps without too much influence of what everyone else is saying.

But Darlton are pretty much saying they don't want to call anything an Alterate Timeline because that would suggest that one isn't real. And as for the storylines merging, those are the types of questions we should be asking. It's a slow burn over the season, but we'll be getting mythological answers on the island in the meantime. nice.

But seeing the island underwater and what was on the island intentionally was giving us clues to when the island may have submerged and if jughead was actually at fault.

we also should be asking where Eko, Libby, and Ana Lucia were. If jughead blew...what effect did it have on everyone else? Very interesting stuf. I recommend the read! (see comment #1 everyone!)

Anonymous said...

I think Jacob can be a smoke monster too. He is the smoke monster that protects the temple and now that he is dead supposedly he can't protect it. (A smoke monster can come into the temple, we were shown that when Ben met with one.)

But, what Jacob's people don't know yet, is that Jacob came back as Sayid.

Rukshan said...

Well I guess Eko, Libby, and Ana Lucia may have been in the plane, or they missed the flight.We didn't see Clair on the flight, and I thought she may have missed her flight, but they put her in a taxi, so there still a chance that Eko, Libby, and Ana Lucia were in the flight.

I'm not sure if jug-head would cause the island to sink.An H-Bomb would have flattened the entire island, its trees, the foot and all those dharma buildings...unless a tsunami struck at some point, but even then it wont get entirely submerged..

Mike V. said...

Anonymous, I wouldn't put it past the writers that maybe Jacob is another Smokey. I think that the Red water is definitely significant to whatever Sayid is now! And I got the impression that if Sayid is a reincarnated jacob, that The Others WOULD know about it. At least Lennon and the Japanese guy. But we'll see!

rukshan....I think Darlton were implying that they definitely WEREN'T on the plane (AL, Eko and Libby). So it'll be interesting to see what they're planning with that. Claire I figured was on the plane, we just didn't see her until the big reveal of her in the cab. I think it was a writing decision to lead up to her return to the show in a big moment. But, you never know! I'm guessing we'll continue that story next week but we'll see!

I agree that the H bomb would probably flatten the island as opposed to submerge it. So it'll be interesting to see where this is all going! I can't wait! So amazed that this show constantly reinvents itself and keeps us on the edge of our seats!

noel said...

Too many new questions... Walt? Michael? Libby, et.al.?
Are the LAX 815ers in 2004? If so aren't their doppelgangers on the island in 2007? How will that resolve? Oh my head is spinning...

Mike V. said...

Agreed Noel...lots of questions and it sounds like we'll be getting it all throughout the season. This is gonna be one helluva finish!

But yeah, I would assume it's 2004 for the LA X 815ers but we'll see soon enough!

Jenn said...

So Mike, I think I have to give your recap a great big WOW too! My head is spinning! After reading your recap along with other recaps, I cannot believe how much I missed, especially Sayid's new accent when he "woke up."

My only theory is about the water in the temple. I was thinking that it lost its healing power (and changed color) when the pocket of energy (which we learned early on was the source of the healing power) was completely destroyed by the Jughead.

I don't think that Sayid woke up because he was healed by the water. Some have theorized that Sayid woke up because he was possessed by Jacob's spirit.

Thanks for the blog and I hope you enjoy the rest of your day off!!

Paul Gallo said...

I am still going with my Dogma theory I posted last year. MiB (Lucifer or another fallen angel)is looking for a loophole to get back "home" (heaven).

Mike V. said...

Thanks Jenn! Some of this stuff I don't even think about until I'm writing. But, I did not catch Sayid's different accent. I'll pay attention on watch #2!!

Yeah, I'm thinking Jacob is involved with Sayid's revival, but I also thought the fountain was involved too...and specifically the RED water....because they did mention there could be RISKS or something. When you specifically mention that...something is gonna be off, right?? I dunno lol But yeah I don't know what to do about Jughead....that was in 1977....it's been 30 years...have others not looked at the water in 30 years to notice it turned red? Or are you thinking it wouldn't have changed until the LOSTIES showed up? And DID Jughead blow up in THIS version of the LOSTIES? or only in the other version?? So confused!

no problem on the blog...it was a rough one to write, but I got through it....however many hours later! lol

Mike V. said...

Not a bad theory Paul! The more I thought about it when I was writing I was thinking about him wanting to die or something similar when he referred to "HOME" We will see!

Matt said...

Hey peeps, shhh dont tell anyone, i have just watched the season premier, and woah, it was hard work, got some awful trojan + malware and had to do a system restore and go back to the day i got my laptop and install all of my junk again. and then i finally watched it about 2 hours ago, and no i havent slept since i last posted :D dont think im gna sleep for a while yet :D

Quick observation i thought i might share with you all.

Jacob gives Hurley the guitar case before the Ajira flight, and then Hurley time travels with it, twice and then it serves its purpose back in the same timeline where Hurley was given the case, and in the Letter, according to J.Lennon it says that Sayid must live. or at least thats what he tells Hurley, so surely this means that Jacob knew that Sayid would need to be saved, or was there another purpose for the case?

cdstedman said...

Great recap Mike,

My take on the timelines is they will eventually merge. They went out of their way to have the traits of each character the opposite in the new timeline.

Hurley has good luck instead of bad.
Sawyer instead of hearing about Hurley’s lotto winnings and trying to con him he warns him about reveling the winnings to avoid getting coned.
Jack believes in miracles "nothing is irreversible”
Lock has the biggest change. Comfortable and at peace with his condition. The exact opposite of the man Flocke describes to Ben.
Sun (this may be a stretch) to me she looked happy to be married. Her comments about Rose and Bernard and I think she really didn’t know English and that means she never wanted to run away.
Jin, Kate and Sayid need more info about them.

This is course correction extreme happening right now. Something needs to happen in 2004 that only these people with these different traits can do. That will bring the timelines together and ultimately accomplish whatever Jacob plan is. And Desmond is the key to it. Why? Because the rules don’t apply to him and his catch phrase is "See you in another life brothaaaaa"

Matt said...

Sorry let me finish that one, i am actually going somewhere :D not just sleep deprived ramblings.

So.... if the purpose of the letter was to save Sayid's life, then this would suggest that Jacob has seen or knows (perhaps alternate timeline) Sayid dieing, and either J.Lennon or Karate Chop Dave (dont know his name but he got Jack good eh :D) said that if Sayid dies then they are all in trouble. BUT YES SAYID IS ALIVE, so maybe we will see something other than MIB strutting around with Richard on his back opening cans of whoop-ass on everyone :D

Matt said...

Also from reading Stedmans post is it possible that Desmond (exception to the Time rules) was actually on the plane, then vanished back to 2007 and wasnt just Jacks imagination? Could be eh :D

HurleyAteMe said...

Mike V
Great Recap

I have more questions than answers,
why would the bomb exploding change passengers on the plane, Desmond is now on it and Shannon missing?

Was the Swan station in the same condition as the end of season 5? except for all the debris covering it?

Was there any key scenes in past episodes where the ash was broke around Jacobs cabin?

Why did FLocke have to turn into the SM to kill Bram and others? I speculate he can be killed in human form, ie: Danielle killing crew after they were infected!

I say FLocke's home is the temple or he is after some power that goes with the temple! why else would they be protecting it?

If I had to speculate on the direction of the show, I would say we are going to see these 2 story lines develop and be left with a ending that makes the viewer guess which one is real!! I also predict Jack operates on Locke and gets him walking!!!
look forward to any comments!

Rukshan said...

Hey Matt,how did you manage to get a trojan? Was it the online video site? Scary!

I totally love that point Matt made,make it seem that Jacob knew what would happen..

Ive been thinking abt Jacks dad Christian and him being in the island and in the cabin and that he was there to tell San that she will meet Jin and pointer her to Fake Lock/MIB- Guess it goes to show that Christian Shepperd on the island is aether working with or is another avatar of the MIB.

And think about the ep where they show Jacob going back and touching some of the oceanic passengers, those are the only people who are now on the island, none of the others seem to remain there. Looks like by touching them Jabob allowed them to remain on the island whilst also living an alternate life..

whacha guys think?

MJ said...

Wowser ! That underwater thing is just messing with my head. IS that supposed to be a 3rd reality ?

Funny - I was also thinking maybe MIB/Jacob could be some sort of angels. I reguse to think of Jacob good MIB bad - and most stories (Supernatural, Prophecy movies) do not talk about angels as good and bad - most angels are actually bad as they do the killing for god. But most have the angels that still love god and the ones who got cast out from heaven.

When young Ben was taken to the water to heal Sawyer was told that he would be forever different - and so shall Sayid be. I also noticed no change in accent - but he only said 2 words. LOL

On the plane Jin looked at the watch, then again in customs. Was the watch different ??

Timeline - so LAX reality it is September 2004. But is it 2004 when Des blew the hatch ? Or had it turned to early 2005 ?

Did they go out of their way to only show Claire from the shoulders up ? Can it be she's not preggers in the LAX reality ?

'The truth is out there' I think is Darltons wink at us that we are getting to the truth.

Any significance to the premier being on Ground Hogs Day ??? ;->>

Walt appeared to Shannon all wet (and talking backwards) and now we see a version of the island under water ?? Significance ?

Jacob left a list of names in the Ank - Jacob always left lists for Ben and Richard as well

No only did Sawyer seem like he wasn't interested in conning Hurley - didn't he seem really happy ? IN the original version he has just been tricked into killing a man that was not Sawyer - I would think he would not be so jovial if that had happened, so I'm thinking that Sawyer might not have killed that guy now.

Bernard was in a tree in the orig crash - Kate in tree in alternate island time.

cdstedman said...

HurleyAteMe,

I'll try and answer some.

We’ll ignore the real reason that certain actors couldn’t be on the premier due to scheduling ;) But if jughead in 1977 is the start of where this timeline changes, the flight was in 2004. that’s 27 years of butterfly effect that would change certain details on flight 817, including missing passengers.

yes

Right before Illiana burned the cabin they noticed the ash ring was broken.

interesting about Flocke being able to be killed in human form. But your implying Danielle’s crew was SM because they were infected.

Matt said...

Yeah i think it was one of the many torrent sites i looked at, but it all went pretty nuts last night, but all back to normal now :D There were many clues before about Smokey and Flocke being the same, like towards the end of Season 5 when Ben summoned him, and Flocke was off in the jungle for some reason, then comes walking back and there was that great line from Ben to Sun, something like "you might wanna go inside, because whats about to come out of that jungle is something i cant control" Bam its Flocke :D

But yeah nice point btw Rukshan but what about Miles?

MJ said...

The was a BIG scene when Ben and other people went to the cabin and the ash was broken. Mike could tell you the season as I can't remember.

Am also wondering if Jack will save Locke in LAX timeline

Shannon not being on the place was because the actress wasn't avail - or wanted too much $$ - depends on who you believe.
Des though is interesting. He def was not on the plane in season 1 - but if this is an alternate life where the island is submerged then his boat never landed there. At this point we don't even know if he knows Pen !

Interesting to me - Jack still doesn't get to bury his father ! Orig timeline all he wants to do is get the body home and get the whole thing over with but they crash instead and Jack is haunted by the ghost. This new timeline and they have lost the coffin. SO kharma is still not allowing Jack a quick burial - forcing him to deal with his loss.

Jeanne said...

HurleyAteMe - I just posted very similar observations on another forum - Great minds think alike!

The two big things sticking out at me are these:

1.) Jack/Losties attempted to PREVENT the incident by attempting to detonate the bomb. The whole point was to PREVENT the incident, which would mean no button for Desmond to fail to push, which would mean flight 815 didn't crash.

If they succeeded, then the only thing that should have changed is that our Losties would have landed safely in LAX. Preventing the incident should not (by and of itself) cause Hurley to have good luck, Shannon to not be on the plane, etc..So, appears to me that what we were shown in the 'alternate 815 flight' is predicated one SOMETHING ELSE that changed our Losties way before they ever boarded the flight (not just the plane not crashing, but some other set of events that changed things).

2.) The scene at the implosion site. What is up with that? That scene - with the rubble, etc. - looked more like the way the Losties left it in 1977 than the way it looked post 2004 implosion (Jack/Sawyer/Kate, etc woke up last night to a rubble implosion scene - not just a big crater)....Any ideas on this?

Jeanne said...

cdstedman wrote: "that’s 27 years of butterfly effect that would change certain details on flight 817, including missing passengers."

Good Point.

Mike V. said...

Matt, that is crazy that you stayed up and got to watch the episode. But really sucks about the trojan. Good luck with that. They're no fun!

As for the letter. I just figured the implications of the letter were that Sayid needs to be alive...but not that it necessarily said that. And maybe alive isn't SAYID alive but JACOB alive. I dunno. Anyway, I figured that the letter had a list of names on it (the people he touched...and maybe miles...unless miles was just with sawyer when the others grabbed him) and then maybe jacob gave further instructions from there. But I guess maybe he knew that sayid would get hurt.

Stedman, thanks for the props! I totally didn't catch all of the Opposite character traits. And I think I missed what Sun said to Jin because of writing too many notes! lol You're right, she might in fact not know english which would be very interesting. And maybe she is happily married...or just has never made the initiative to leave Jin. And of course, the repercussions of all of that would be that they would never have their daughter Ji Yeon. Which reminds me...why on earth would Jin want to participate in a reboot where he would never meet his child???!? huh...never thought of that! Good point about Sawyer on the opposites....i did notice Hurley's obviously lol Question about Sawyer...why was in Australia...was he there to trying to kill the conman that ruined his life? (the fake conman of course)....or was he there for pleasure? Hurley was there on his Chicken mission instead of trying to learn about the numbers. did he even play the numbers to win the lottery? yikes...so many questions lol

Yeah I'm interested to see how Desmond plays into this all... not sure if he was time traveling onto the plane...he seemed genuinely not to know Jack. But who knows??? we shall see!

Hurely Ate me - thank you also! Based on the Darlton interview, whatever Jack and crew self-centeredly did to change their own past, they didn't factor in how it would affect everyone else. And with all of their lives intersecting in the past....there is a chance that there would be slight changes in how things went. Like, if the island is submerged...does Yemi's plane ever land on it? I don't know how that would tie into Eko not being on the plane. Maybe Christian Shephard didn't bring Ana Lucia with him to Australia this time around. WHY? I don't know. But something is definitely different! They can explain their thinking better than me. Check out that first comment! lol

I wondered about the debri at the swan....i thought it looked similar to the debri from season 5....oh you know what? Maybe when Juliet moved through time, she brought the stuff with her because she was touching it (or was she?) she may have just been in the location where she was in season 5...and that debris is still from the season 2 implosion. Don't know for sure though! But I'm guessing we might not really get that answer!

We never saw the ash actually broken...but both times in season 3 and 4 when they got to the cabin, the ash was there unbroken. So I'm not sure what that means! But here's another thought...and i think i kinda mentioned in the blog. how does jacob know about the French team and Jin being there? Was he around to see it? Did the Man In Black tell him about it? ORRRRR like someone else suggested, is Jacob also a smoke monster...and did he attack the French team? interesting.....i think i like the concept of one smoke monster, but this would make sense!

Mike V. said...

Oh yeah, i definitely think jack will operate and fix locke. That would definitely be a good time. But it sounds like from the interview that this 2 timeline approach is a slow burn through the season but that it will definitely be addressed....we're all asking the right questions and there definitely are implications from both timelines. Loving it!!

Rukshan...yeah i was just thinking of that scene again as well with Christian and Sun and then Flocke showing up later. I was trying to think if we saw the risen locke on hydra island at the same time we saw Christian talking to Sun and Frank. Because technically, he should only be able to be in one place at a time right? But...can the man in black travel off of the island? we have seen christian shephard appear off the island. then again...now we've seen jacob appear to hurley as a ghost.....so there definitely are ghosts.....oh my...no more timetravel but my head is STILL spinning! lol

Jacob's touch definitely did something to these guys...whether it means they're destined to be in each other's lives....or destined to come to the island...or destined to help jacob....i have no idea! But I can't wait to find out!

Okay...i see there are 4 more comments since i decided to type this...but i'm still posting!!! lol (okay...now 6!!! you guys are nuts!!)

Mike V. said...

my point was similar to stedman's on the butterfly effect...one big change....may lead to smaller changes down the line. I don't think the writers will go out of there way to explain why each one is happening...just that they DID happen. probably a smart move on their part! lol

MJ...i was just thinking the same thing about soaked Walt. MAYBE! but maybe not....they better explain all of that walt stuff..it's too weird not to explain!

so yes...we did see the ash broken AFTER it was broken...but we never saw the actual breaking of it (is what i meant) . i agree with stedman. When Ilana Bram and Lapidus came to the cabin...the ash was broken. but 3 years before when Christian was in there...the ash was not broken. so what does THAT mean?

Sorry if i missed any comments...too hard to keep up...but I like everyone discussing it better anyway! :-)

Anonymous said...

I thought last night's show was pretty wacky. Reminded me a little of Indiana Jones & The Temple of Doom (the BAD one). I think the parallel universe thing is interesting but definitely confusing. We did get some answers though (although we have a lot more questions now!) I re-read your 23 questions. We now know that the ash somehow protects against Smokey. We know that the MIB/Smokey/Fake Locke are all the same being. We know what's in the guitar case. I think the list had those particular names on it (Jack, Kate, etc.) We now know what the temple is, that it does exist, and that is a safe haven for the others and has the healing fountain that probably saved Ben's life. Is Locke really dead? I think that has been confirmed. (I think Sayid is dead too.) Story of the Black Rock? I go along with your original theory that the island just moved at some point in time and the ship was on top of it at it's new location. I think Richard was on the ship (in chains). You questioned that theory because of the ship sailing offshore, but we don't know that that was the Black Rock, it could have been any ship. I also think the Shadow of the Statue People have been there before. They just seemed to know their way around. I think the biggest question that remains in my mind, and I hope will be answered, is why these particular people, who are all interconnected in some way in their real lives, were selected to be on Flight 815. I think the parallel universe starting at LAX will have to show us how the characters would have discovered those connections had they not crashed on the island together. Signed -- One Confused Cajun

Mike V. said...

oh right..i missed one. MJ...you said that Kate woke up in the tree in the "ALTERNATE REALITY" Is that what you meant? First of all...Darlton says we should be calling EITHER one an Alternate Reality because it suggests that one isn't true. But I guess I was thinking that the DHARMA LOSTIES have rejoined the timeline with the AJIRA LOSTIES in 2007...so that is the timeline we have known and loved for 5 seasons prior.

It is interesting that she was in that tree though...and I can see the parallel with Bernard...but Kate ending up in that tree is the SAME timeline that bernard ended up the tree. Know what I mean? lol

Anonymous said...

great re-cap! thanks!

2 points that i came up with is: 1) jacob is somehow connected with those he "touched", so you gotta think that there was a specific reason to get sayeed to the temple. i like to think that the water in the pool signifies jacob's death and somehow jacob now lives in sayeed as locke et all live in "smokey". 2) i am thinking that when juliet said "it worked", she was refering to the bomb. she knew it took them back to the plane. she somehow saw her and swyer in the "other life" where their paths will cross again and be going out for coffee.
3) i am glad shannon wasn't on the plane. i couldn't get into her character at all. could of done just fine with out her. effective in preventing the plane crash

Mike V. said...

Wow Cajun....you actually DID read my 23 Mysteries....quoting it word for word! I'm impressed! Sometimes I think people will take one look at this blog , see how big the post is...and just skip right to the comments! LOL And I wouldn't blame them!

I do agree that THAT ship may have not been the black rock...but i would wonder why they would introduce ANOTHER ship that looks very similar. I still think moving the island and the ship ending up underneath it would have been a great concept! And we'll see if it happens! Thanks for working through the checklist on the 23 questions!

I agree though...I want to see all of these characters working together....maybe even realizing that they're meant to work together in a non Island world. Maybe they have to SAVE the island lol eh...that's a stretch.

But here's something that I got too tired to put in the blog. What if these timelines don't intersect and we're able to have our cake and eat it too? i.e. Jack ends up with Kate in one timeline...and Sawyer ends up with Kate in the other? That would be hysterical...I think jaters and skaters might argue forever which timeline was actually the real one! LOL love it. Still think Jack will die in the end though. But I'd be happy if he didn't too!

Mike V. said...

Thanks anonymous! Agree with your points. Except Shannon...I like how they wrote her out of the premiere with changing the timeline a bit. But knowing that wasn't their original plan kinda makes me wonder what the original intention was!

AreUPokey said...

An note on Sayide-
While it does seem to make sense that Sayid is now Jacob based on what happened to Locke (and it would also bring up the question of just how many different bodies have these two used? What did they originally look like?) - but there is a key difference. Sayid's actual body sat up. MiB looks like Locke, but Locke's body is separate.
So if Jacob does in fact now possess Sayid, then it is in a different way than Locke is possessed by MiB.

And another question - the Mib's cover is now blown. They know he isn't Locke. Why does he continue to take the form of Locke? Could it be that he can appear as anyone, but only temporarily? And that in Locke he found a form that he could permanently reside in?

Mike V. said...

Pokey, both good points and also things I'm thinking about too. My guess is that he'll stick around as Locke to keep Terry O'Quinn employed and a shot at an Emmy! lol But you could be onto something that he is in a permanent body now or something.

I agree that if Jacob is Sayid then it seems to be a bit different than Locke/Man in black and also what were their original bodies...etc... We do know that Jacob was the same body for a long time.....from SHIP/Black Rock date...until 2007 so it isn't a matter of outgrowing a body...it's just being killed? I dunno. we could be totally off that Jacob is Sayid. But it just goes with the whole DEAD IS DEAD theme of the show. If Sayid is still walking and he was declared dead...then something is up! I'm excited to find out what!

davidsalako said...

Locke-ness monster was awesome.
The intensity of Flocke is great to watch.
Going to be a great season and acting challenge for the actors on the show as they get to play essentially 2 different versions of each character.
I guessed they could only go flash-sideways with the narrative of the show. It fits in very well to the flash-backs, flash-forwards, constants and variables theme of the show.
So glad this gem is back!

JD in SCS said...

I think that the version where they have landed in LA will mimic many of the interactions that occurred on the island. So far in each version Jack has saved Charlie's life, Boone wants to team-up with Locke, and Bernard and Rose are all lovey-dovey after being separated. I bet that Kate will deliver Claire's baby and that Sawyer and Juliet will meet for a cup of coffee and fall in love. It will show that things are meant to happen and you can't change destiny.

MJ said...

Wow - can't keep up with the comments. And you are right ! Bernard in the tree IS the same timeline as Kate in the tree. Sheesh !

Some sites are calling this season the season of 'side flashes' - not living that though. Guess we have island timeline and LA time line ?

I have only re-watched season 1 in all these years - so I totally bow to all of you who have re-watched so much more. But I swear that one of the trips that Ben lead to the cabin showed broken ash. Oh well.

Mike V. said...

would be very interesting JD if it plays out that way. I like it!

good call on the Flash-sideways david. When they first announced the comic-con clips and that there would be a new storytelling device, it was the first thing i thought of too....but more in a "what if oceanic 815 never crashed" type thing....i think this version where we don't know which is real....well actually...they both seem very real which adds a mystery to itself!

Hey ....i'm re-watching right now and noticed that the Customs officer called Sun MISS PAIK. Did she and Jin never marry in this timeline? interesting...

Mike V. said...

MJ....no need to bow to us! lol your question is a good one! All I know is there were only 2 times when they went to the cabin prior to season 5. Once in season 3 (ben, locke) and once in season 4 (ben, locke, hurley). Hurley saw the cabin by himself in season 4 as well..but i don't think they showed the ash. The first time they noted the ash at all was in season 5 when bram said "look at the ash!" and it was clearly broken. So, i'm pretty sure that's the case. i still don't know the implications of it though!

Yep, Doc Jensen is referring to it as FLASH SIDEWAYS so I guess that's what we go with! We still of off island stories and on island stories as always....just a little new twist to it!

Matt said...

Really well noticed Mike, i cant see why she would know Sun's father or have any other reason to call her that. Unless, Sun's Father said no when Jin asked for permission to marry his daughter, and somehow still ended up working for him to prove himself and is going to stay in USA with her and marry there? thats the only thing i can think of

Glad2HaveThemBack said...

Mike V.

Isn't it true that if jughead went off and affected the island and therefore new timeline, Hurley wouldn't have ever heard the original lotto numbers because they wouldn't have been repeating to anyone on the radio broadcast from the island? Perhaps this accounts for some good luck instead of bad.

Also, it's too soon to say that Sawyer isn't a con man. The "con" is short for "confidence" so perhaps Sawyer just has some long term plan for Hurley's money by acting like a friend or confidant. Sawyer doesn't exactly go out of his way to help the authorities when Kate is on the loose. Same old Sawyer to me.

davidsalako said...

The ash had been shown once before Ilana's and Bram's "ark of covenant" trek to the cabin.

It was when Ben, Locke and Hurley found it.
Locke stepped over the ash.

We re-watched all 5 seasons in the last 9 months.

Matt said...

If i remember correctly, there was a clear shot of part of the ash ring when Ben was pretending to speak to Jacob in the cabin.

And I cant remember seeing one when Christian Sheppard was inside, Was Hurley there when Christian Sheppard was inside, i seem to think he was. Gna have to go look again :D

Mike V. said...

about the numbers...hurley heard the lottery numbers from leonard...who heard them from that guy in australia....i guess we'd have to know if hurley was ever in the mental institution in this other timeline!

As for the ASH....i have no doubt in my mind that we saw the ash in season 3...because locke ASKED ben about it. I'm PRETTY sure we saw it in season 4 when hurley, ben and locke went there...and it was UNBROKEN. I absolutely know that it was broken in season 5 and it was the first time this was ever mentioned or seen!

I guess I'm gonna have to go back and watch that crazy season 4 episode. CABIN FEVER Just to be sure.

Thanks Matt on the Miss Paik call! And you could be right that jin wanted to run away to marry sun. Based on the rewatch I still think Sun knows english. Just the way she said "NO ENGLISH" sounded very ENLGISHY lol

Matt said...

Yeah mike im sure she does know english, given the long pause before answering, and also the NO......English, like she realised she sounded a bit stupid lol.

Also going back to the numbers thing, i think what "Glad2HaveThemBack" was trying to say was that, Leonard heard them from the dude in Australia who heard the radio transmition of the island but would there be a transmission. Looking at the times, I dont think we really know when The Australian Man heard the Transmission, but it probably was after 1977 and Thus the island is at the bottom of the ocean and he wouldnt have heard any transmission and thus The Numbers wouldnt have made their way to Hurley. Suppose it all adds up. Just depends if the numbers were heard by the Australian man before 1977.

barrigadaone said...

Jacob and Esau. Book if Genesis. Esau wants to kill Jacob. GO figure!

3labsman said...

It is wonderful to read about Lost again! Great article Mike.

Matt said...

Wow i must be tired, it isnt Daniels transmission with the numbers on it, its the one from the Hydra that is blocking all other signals so i guess the Hydra could still be operating after the Island got blown up and sunk under the sea.

Matt said...

Rewatching now, and a few more observations.

Sun might not speak english, since it was her problems her marriage with Jin that led her to learn English.

Also, the temple people were shocked that the water wasnt clear, and it appears to have blood in it, which i think someone already said was Jacbos blood, which would make sense, did anyone notice "Karate Chop Dave" cut his hand, submerged it in the water, then looked confused as it was still an open wound when he removed it? do we think that maybe he knew all along that Sayid would not be healed by the water, but wanted him to down in Jacobs blood so that somehow he Swallows his blood and Jacob posseses him.

And some key differences between the deaths of Locke and Sayid. We do not know that MIB was dead when he became Flocke, and he has appeared as many other people, i feel it may be that he was removed from his body somehow, might not be from death. Also if the purpose of Sayid drowning in Jacobs blood was to have him reincarnate as Jacob then that would be completely different to immitating someone body.

Mike V. said...

Thanks 3labs!! Happy to do it!

matt, good call on the knife thing. I totally forgot to mention that! Yes, it did look like the waters would have healing powers or something.

I agree that Locke vs. Sayid deaths/incarnations would be totally different.

And yes...rousseau's transmission would probably still be running. maybe...the island is under water!! lol the radio tower was on the main island. Good point about the numbers...but i don't know if we know that leonard heard the transmission on the island...it's a good assumption though. There could be the distinct possibility that hurley did not play the numbers in this new timeline...but won the lottery anyway!

Matt said...

Well if i remember correctly in the episode where Hurley went to Australia the mans wife said something about her husband heard the tramsission on the radio. It wasnt the Hydra transmitting the numbers on the loop it was the recording before Rousseau swapped it for her transmission. Which i dont think would function in underwater Island. So i think we will find out that Hurley played different numbers nad therefore change his luck. When 815 crashed im sure Hurley was on his way back from seeing the Australian man's Wife. But Dr Artz was walking about the Australian Chicken Advert. It seems in New Timeline that Hurley was in fact over in Australia opening Resturants and not seeing Australian man who told Leonard about the numbers! only took me a few hours to finally work this one out :D

Mike V. said...

Right yeah I didn't meant Rousseau. She replaced the transmission. I just figured the numbers were running there beforehand. Lol I agree it probably wouldn't run underwater!


I think I need to give my brain a rest for a bit. I'm going crazy!

can't think of anything cool said...

Mike V- good job as always! I'm wondering how Ben knew to "summon" Smokey to kill the freighter guys, but he couldn't figure out that FLocke is Smokey? I thought Ben was way smarter than that! But the argument will be he was so hurt by the negligence of Jacob, that his anger would not have him thinking straight? I'm very confused with the 2 timelines, and how they will connect. Things are very different from the original version. And Sun possibly not being married to Jin- whew, that was a good catch. And Kate still running. Some things are different, but some are the same. Someone on here made the connection of Jacob touching the ones that are left on the island, but it did not show him touching Miles, yet he is still here, (which I'm so glad of). Oh well- thanks again Mike V for your insight, believe it or not, I'm LESS confused after reading your thoughts!

Ian said...

Man, am I late to the party or what? So many commenters have made points and observations I wanted to make!

I hadn't thought of the possibility that someone else could be inhabiting Sayid's body, but that certainly seems like it would make sense. I read some of the spoilers, and they seemed to conflict. Some said Sayid would die in the premiere, others said he'd be healed at the temple. I guess they were both right! Those spoiler sources are sneaky! I also noticed that Sayid's accent seemed different after he "woke up," but I assumed it was just Naveen Andrews' real-life British accent coming through. I guess we'll find out next week if that was intentional.

They gave us an interesting detail in the series recap before "LA X" began. They said there was a rule that MIB and Jacob couldn't harm each other (or something to that effect), so that's what the "loophole" was about.

Smokey killed the "shadow of the statue" crew after they attacked him. If Smokey acts as a judge, does that mean he knows they were "bad people"? I know it's an ongoing debate over who's good and who's evil on this show (or if anyone is in fact either), but might it be a hint that Jacob's side is the "bad" one?

One other thing...if Christian Shepard's body wasn't on the plane, should we assume that it was never on the plane in the original 815 crash scenario? If that's the case, then does that explain why Christian's body was gone when Jack found the coffin in the jungle? Or is it another of these "butterfly effect" changes?

This season already looks like it's going to be great!

Don said...

am I the only one here who heard Charlies voice when Sayid woke up and said: "what happened?" Go back and listen. I did at the time, and I swear....it's charlie's voice. Now I'm thinking about when Jack saved Charlie on the airplane. The first thing Charlie said when he came back was: "what happened?" Wasn't it?

Nice call on the Richard with chains/Black rock connection. I thought Flocke was just reffering to Richard being able to age now that Jacob is dead (no more spell).

Remember the Others were always very quick to ask for their people's bodies and to bury them very quick. Becuz the man in black could potentially take over their body and no one would no the difference. Here. he gets in the mind of Ben by appearing as Alex. Alex tells him to do whatever Locke(smokey) says. Locke has him kill Jacob. Now that Jacob is dead, it makes no difference that people know that he's locke

I do believe that Jacob took the forms of Sayid's cat, Kate's horse etc...while MIB took the form of Eko's bro, Alex, and Dr. Shepard.

i didn't even think about Widmore or Elouise. I think Faraday's mom was trying to replicate the intial crash. I don't believe she knew the man in black's plans. They dressed him in Jack's dad's shoes. Honestly, i have no idea where Widmore fits into this whole picture. Who's the good guy/bad guy with him and Ben was a good portion of previous seasons. Wow, if you think about it. Jacob/man in black had the same conversation as Widmore/Ben in widmore's bedroom.

I'd love to kill you, but you know I can't do that"

Who plays the ghosts off the island? How do they stop people like Jack and Michael from kiling themselves?

And now that you bring up the beach. Remember what Walt said to John, " i saw you on a beach where everyone wanted to kill you" We saw this last night and I don't believe we have seen the end of the mysterious Walt.

Anonymous said...

My son tried to post something earlier today about thinking that it was Charlies voice when Sayid said, "What happened?", but it didn't post.

I can't remember my google password to log in, but it is me, gnni4 and so happy to be reading your recap and seeing the comments.

Mike V, Good catch on the Miss Paik, just watched it again and you are right.

Don, my son agrees with you 100% about Charlies voice, sounded to me like his voice just broke a bit, coming back from the dead and all. I think that you are right about that being the moment that Walt mentioned.

My thoughts are that The Temple could be the home that SM/Flock is wanting to get back to, and maybe the other others have kicked him out of his place.

Glad to have everybody back and can't wait to see next weeks!

gnni4 said...

Found my password, I'm back!

One more thing, anyone guess, is Richard just knocked out, or did SM/Flock break his neck?

I think knocked out.

carolinski said...

Hi Mike V,
Great recap, as usual. I stumbled across it a few years back when I was rewatching some episodes and now I can 't go through any episode without reading your thoughts and the comments of everyone visiting here...

And Don, you have some really good points there! I didn't think of it, but the conversation between Jacob/MIB & the one between Ben/Widmore are indeed very similar ...
Also about the others being quick with burying their bodies. Didn't think about that one either. But then Ben must have made the connection between the strange behaviour of Flocke (love that one btw) and Smokey being able to take the form of dead bodies.

As it looks right now, it seems that Jacob is & has always been the good guy, while MIB/Flocke/Smokey/what- or whoever more seems to be the bad guy. But hey, you never know how this show will turn our heads around just once more.

I stay very confused about the fact that MIB took over Lockes "body" while we still see the body itself. But when it took over Christians body, the body itself disappeared (Jack found an empty coffin). So, does that mean that it wasn't MIB who took over Christian or what ... ?

I don't know anymore.

Rukshan said...

It would be great to find out how Walt plays in to this story. Sofas qe know that he was special even out of the island as he could make birds fly twards him.wont even try to figure out his power and role in all this.

Just a thought about the others, I know they seem like the good guys right now, specialy as Jacob seems like a nice guy and saves people and he is there leader... But if they are the good guys why did they kill the entire dharma initiate off including women children old young ...and they even attacked and and killed off some losties...

This comments section is awesome, it just fills up with great ideas! Wonder if the creators read it :) Hats off to Mike for making it all possible.

Peter said...

wow, great recap Mike. What a crazy episode. What an opening. When they showed the island underwater i was like ,"What the Hell!". Only watched the episode last night (living in Ireland). All these comments have been great at making sense of this. Well at least some of it!
I have to agree on the Sayid accent changin, the second I heard it I rewinded and listened and am sure dats an english accent. HE didnt pronounce the T in "what" at all. Unlike Sayid who seems to pronounce everything well.

I have to say,with regards to this new story telling device, reading JD in SCS's comment about destiny " It will show that things are meant to happen and you can't change destiny." I think you may be on to something there!

Have to say I was really getting into the storyline of when they got off the plane, especially all the Kate stuff, her trying to escape and all that was great! Its hard to get your head around the whole thing but like you said Mike we've pretty much got to trust Darlton at this stage and go with it.

carolinski said...

Does anyone have an idea who Jacob was refering to when he said "They're coming", just after he was stabbed by Ben?
Did he mean Ilana & crew, his "bodyguards"? Or did he mean the people he touched, like Jack, Kate, etc.. ?

Mike V. said...

Thanks everyone for the continued props on the blog. Thank YOU all for coming back every year. This blog has increased in population almost 100% each season. It's insane! Unfortunately, once it's over, so is the draw to the blog for all of these great discussions. I encourage you all to follow me on twitter: @LOSTAddictsBlog If I ever get into any new blogging ventures, I will update that Twitter (even if I change the name of it in the future lol) And of course, I will start FlashForward blogging once they resume March 18th!

okay, enough plugging myself! You guys are having some great discussion. I did want to chime in on carolinski's point about Christian shephard's body not being in the coffin in the timeline we've known since season 1. This might be a key difference and and implication that Christian is NOT Smokey. (at least not all of the time) And, of course, the circle of ash, i'm 95% sure was there in season 4 when hurley, Locke and Ben went to the cabin.

The producers btw...were asked by Jimmy Kimmel if Sayid was inhabited by Jacob....and Damon said "he's inhabited by something"...or maybe they said possessed....but they wouldn't confirm it was jacob. I did replay the last moment of the episode to check on the voice. Yeah, if you keep TRYING to listen for something you're going to think it's different...but let's talk semantics here. if it was Charlie's voice...do you think they are going to ask for Dominic's audio services for the whole season when he's working in Los Angeles for FlashForward? Of course, it might be a temporary thing...i dunno.

gnni - welcome back! I don't think Richard is dead...so I'm going with knocked out. I don't remember him knocking him out though...didn't he just drag him away or something? I got distracted on my re-watch yesterday in the last 5 minutes and haven't gone back to watch lol

peter i agree that the new timeline we're seeing will show how these characters were destined to work together. not sure in what way yet but I think we're going to enjoy the season 1 feel of these characters and the ride they go on.

Rukshan...i don't think the creators have read it...maybe they do...maybe they don't! But they've never talked about it or there would be many more of us here! But I agree....I love this blog's evolution and everyone's discussions here. Definitely helps me as much as this blog may help you guys!

Don - you might be right on the chains thing...the first thing i thought was black rock....but it's not like MIB wasn't talking to Richard in the final 2 episodes of season 5 either...so it could have been the chains of Jacob also.

Ian...sorry you came late to the party but welcome anyway! Agree that we can't really confirm if Jacob is good and MIB is bad yet....and the producers have said this too.

As for Christian Shephard. I think we need to assume his body was ON the plane but MISSING from the coffin in the timeline we know. Of course, it had been a mystery for a long time if it really was on the plane. but the whole PROXY thing with ajira 316 kind of resolved that right? This whole thing with Christian NOT being on the plane (coffin and all) is really perplexing...because it sounds like they did mean to put it on the plane. So why wouldn't it be there? Would it have just disappeared when they flew over the island? But the island was submerged so where would it have gone? So confusing!

sorry if i missed anyone..that was a lot of comments! Again, I thank you for checking out the blog all these years (or just this year for the first time)....and I love the discussions we have! keep it up!

Mike V. said...

carolinski...i don't think we know 100%...but most people have assumed he meant the LOSTIES he touched. It seems to be all part of his master plan...and now with him having given that guitar case to Hurley...it seems like dying was part of his master plan too...because he can still communicate with Hurley. Of course...I wonder if the OTHER TIMELINE will have anything to do with the "THEY" also...should be interesting to see what happens!

Jenn said...

I realized that there was someone else missing from the plane.....Vincent! :D

Seriously, though, after participating in the rewatch last year, I got the feeling that Vincent is more than just Walt's dog. I wonder if we will see him this season.

Mike V. said...

Jenn,

The producers went on record in season 3(i think?) confirming that Vincent will definitely survive through season 6. LOL So yes, I'm thinking we'll see him again. But it is a good question since we last saw him with Rose and Bernard....and did Rose and Bernard move back to 2007 with them? We have yet to see. I still think the timeline doesn't work out with them being Adam and Eve unless they moved to the caves immediately after jughead...picked up a black and white stone...and laid down and died so that they could decay enough by 2004 to be in the condition they were in lol

but yeah probably important to note that Michael and Walt weren't on the plane. And of course, they still don't know how to address Walt due to his age. If they can't bring the actor back they better at least explain why he had the abilities! And the whole scene where he was drenched!

Mike V. said...

okay...not to bring back the Christian Shephard/ASH thing again...but someone on gather.com has said they've gone back and watched all of the Christian Shephard scenes....and they NEVER SHOW the ash in season 4's visit to the cabin. WHAAAT? I really have to watch this scene again! But maybe an important thing to note is when Christian shows up in his Suit and Sneakers...and when he shows up in the different outfit??? Perhaps both Jacob AND MIB have been using the Christian Shephard vision to their advantage.

And can MIB leave the island? what about GHOST Christian showing up to jack off-island? What about the smoke alarm going off? what about hurley seeing charlie as a ghost and the ghost hitting him in the face...and also ghost charlie telling hurley to tell jack that someone will be visiting him too...and it ending up being Christian shephard (in the suit with sneakers)..... The one that talked to locke and that took claire was wearing that other crazy outfit. COINCIDENCE??? I don't know! but something definitely worth noting.

also...in season 3...if there was a circle of ash...was jacob in the cabin or was MIB trapped in the cabin? And if MIB was trapped in the cabin...then who was the smoke monster all over the island at the time?

I think all of this confusion is leading to one concept: Both Jacob and MIB were giving Locke directions to where he ended up. The visions, dreams (maybe jacob??) but Jacob has had a master plan all along that involved him dying and still appearing to Hurley for further directions.

Am i crazy??? am i overthinking it???? Should I just shut up until next week? (IMPOSSIBLE!!)

Rukshan said...

Do you guys rememer that hieroglyphic image in the tunnel of the temple, It clearly shows the smoke monster as one eliment, and the dog as another.
This probably proves that Jacob is not a smoke monster, but he is Anubis the god of the dead, and he protects them, while MIB is some sort of dead but undead guy who Anubis wont save, and he keeps trying to get in to Anubis's temple to RIP. This could make the island a sort of limbo where they chill out till they aether die and pass on to where ever they are meant to go, or to be resurrected/rescued.




http://www.hatch23.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/lost_monster.jpg

Mike V. said...

Rukshan..sorry on my way to a meeting so i apologize for rushing here. But that sounds WAAAAAAY too much like purgatory which the producers definitely sait it wasn't in season 1! lol

i'll re-read your comment when i get back!

Mike V. said...

okay..so i read the comment again. not exactly like purgatory but similar themes.

didn't that carving look like anubis was feeding the smoke monster? LOL And wasn't the statue of Taweret (Fertility God?)

It seems like there were egyptian symbology for LIFE and DEATH on the Island. A constant battle of good and evil. So you could be on to something with the judgement stuff. I dunno!

this reminds me of something else I have probably brought up before....do we think that there have been pregnancy issues on the island ever since the statue was destroyed? oh wait...i brought that up before...and we know that in 1977 that the problem with pregnancy hadn't happened yet. hmmmm so maybe it was the purge! I dunno....i think i forgot about the pregnancy thing on my 23 mysteries post!

sorry for the sidebar...i just wanted to type it while i was thinking of it!

Peter said...

Sorry Mike, gota pull you up on this.
"what about GHOST Christian showing up to jack off-island?"
Jack-off island LOL!

cdstedman said...

Walt being drenched - I always thought it was just imagery because he was taken out on the water. The others ask Michael if Walt was ever somewhere he wasn’t supposed to be, so he could project himself somehow. Shannon had Vincent so she’s the one he reached out to.

The circle of ash – The ash circle protects someone from SM so at one time, presumably Jacob, he lived there so SM couldn’t get to him. Ilana said Jacob hasn’t used the cabin in some time, so when was the circle broken that made Jacob leave? I believe the only time it wasn’t broken is when Ben and Locke went there. Next Hurley saw it with Christian (in his suit) inside and than the panicked eye of Jacob scared Hurley away. That was the point SM started using the cabin to manipulate John and Jacob left for the foot.

Mike V. said...

LMAO - that's hysterical Peter...totally unintentional...and probably giving another industry ideas for a LOST-themed video!

Stedman...right...we know that he could appear in places...we know that the others "got more than they bargained for" with walt....but what did they GET? Why he has the powers.....it seems that people in contact with the island get special powers...i can accept that if that's all we're getting. but why did walt have them before? Maybe Jacob interacted with him? or MIB?

you could be right with the ASH stuff....if we truly didn't see the circle in season 4...then I can buy this. but if we did and it wasn't broken...then I'm not sure! I really have to watch the scene again!

cdstedman said...

If I remember correctly

Locke and Ben – saw ash
Hurley first time – didn’t show ash
Hurley second time – didn’t show ash
Locke and split camp – saw ash but no cabin
Locke, Ben, and Hurley – didn’t show ash
Ilana – saw ash with break

Remember though it’s a big circle and the didn’t always approach from the same direction so it could have been broken and they didn’t see it.

Mike V. said...

yikes...that's a lot of ash to remember! lol i did think about the BIG CIRCLE aspect...but i also thought that would be CHEATING by the writers. Why would they want to confuse us further by showing the ash complete a couple times...then broken another?

But it could be right! Yeah i do remember ash a second time...just not when. you know what? idiot me hasn't even checked my archived blogs! duh!!! be back in a bit.

Mike V. said...

okay...here is my blog comment from season 4's THE ECONOMIST

"Team Locke arrives at the circle of ash where Locke originally encountered Jacob's house. But guess what? The house ain't there! "

I checked CABIN FEVER episode (hurley, locke, ben go to cabin)...and you're right...no mention of seeing ash.

season 3 we definitely know locke saw ash before they went in the cabin. season 5 we definitely know the ash was broken. so that's where we are. your memory is correct Stedman. good work!

Ian said...

I just skimmed "Cabin Fever" and it's true: they never show the ash. I'm not sure which episode Hurley sees it by himself, so I couldn't tell you if they show it then.

About Christian's outfits, that's an interesting detail I hadn't noticed. I checked a few Christian appearances, and he was wearing the new outfit right before he appeared to Michael and told him he could die. However, Michael also heard the whispers before Christian appeared to him, and the indication seems to be that the whispers represent the Others, and by extension, Jacob. Heck, we even heard them in this week's episode when Jack, Kate, Hurley, Jin and Sayid got taken by the Others at the temple wall. So is "new outfit" Christian Jacob, or is it Smokey? "NO" Christian also told Locke to bring back the Oceanic 6, and as Hurley's guitar case proved, Jacob apparently planned for them all to be back.

About ghost Charlie possibly being Jacob or Smokey...the hitting him in the face is interesting, because Christian can't seem to touch anyone. When Jack tries to touch him in "White Rabbit," Christian glares at him and walks away. When Locke falls down the well and asks for Christian to help him up, he says "Sorry, I can't." Does that mean ghost Charlie is a separate entity?

Just some thoughts after reading these comments and re-watching a few scenes.

Mike V. said...

it seems like Jacob and the Man in Black cannot interfere with what these people are SUPPOSED to do...but they can guide them on WHAT to do. Right?

I'm way confused on the different outfits of Christian and where he's been popping up on island, off island, on freighter....it's just too much to keep track of if it's 2 different people. So, I'm hoping it's just one person! lol

Christian in outfit #2 also held aaron when Claire woke up. So who knows? I figured that it was MIB in the cave helping Locke because he told locke that dying is a "sacrifice" ....but if Jacob had a master plan...i guess it could have been his idea for locke to die too. Just have no idea!! too much to process...need more clues from the show! brain overload!!! ahhhhh!!

okay...i'm better now!

cdstedman said...

How many people has SM killed and chased through the jungle. Jacob brought Locke back to life. I call that interfering lol.

I’m not convinced Jacob has ever appeared to anyone as someone else. I think every scene with Christian has been SM. With the exception of Hurley (who can legitimately see dead people) all vision of people who died on the island have been SM.

Rukshan said...

The Cabin and the ash seems to be the topic of the day.

I just re-watched the man behind the curtain and WOW, revelation- The man in the cabin in did not look like Jacob,just as he pushed Ben off to the wall there is a shot of him and he looks more like the MIB to me. I think the MIB was in the cabin and he said "Help me" to John, and even as a dead body John eventually did help him.
Makes more sense that way too. If it was the MIB in the Cabin, they kept him locked in there and preventing him from using smoky by using the ash.Once the ash was broken, he got out and hatched his master plan to kill Jacob.

Jacob in the Cabbin-
http://interlost.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/jacob.jpg

1st appearance of ash
http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/980/980966/Lost-Locke-ash_460_1241806846.jpg

Broken ash-
http://www.scottking.info/Pics/lostincashbroken.jpg

cdstedman said...

I like your theory of the ash being used as a prison to keep MIB trapped in the cabin, I had even thought the same thing myself at one point. But if MIB was trapped in the cabin than we wouldn’t have heard the monster or see him kill the pilot in episode 1.

Jenn said...

Since watching this episode, I am now trying to figure out what Richard meant when he told Sun that "he watched them (the losties) die" in 1977. After the bomb detonated, the losties flashed through time to 2007, they didn't die. So perhaps the bomb didn't sink the island in 1977? Any thoughts anyone? I am more confused than ever!!

Rukshan said...

I agree that smokey killing the pilots wont compute with that theory, but didn't that guy in the cabin look a lot more like MIB than Jacob or Cris Shep.

What if Smokey was MIBs pet and the ask was to keep Smoky from breaking MIB out of the cabin.

Now Im just being silly.. had way too much lost in my head!

davidsalako said...

The ash was shown around the cabin in the season 3 episode "The Man Behind The Curtain" as the screen capture in a previous post shows.
Locke actually bent down and picked up some of the ashes with his fingers.
If Jacob typically summons the leaders when he wishes and not at the leaders bidding as per Richard Alpert, how come Ben Linus knew where to find the ever moving cabin?
It seems the ashes keep Smokey out rather than trap it somewhere.
Seems to me that the ashes would also have been an effective protection around Dharmaville rather than just the electric fence? Maybe the Others residing in Dharmaville felt that Smokey was on their side? So confused now!
The Dharmaville location must have some importance.
Horace's tale may answer that question.
Listening to Ben's conversation with Locke in Season 3 about how temporary the nature of the leadership position on the island is and fate being "a fickle b*tch" seems so prophetic and poignant now. Ben killed him.

MJ said...

Hmmm - I had kinda thought that Jacob was living in the cabin and the ash kept MIB/Smokey out.

But - am starting to like the thought that Jacob is also smokey.

Smokey, at times, acted differently than other times. Which could point to 2 different persons appearing as smokey. If both MIB and Jacob are some sort of powerful deities then wouldn't it follow that they could both be smokey when they choose ?

MJ said...

Oh - and never meant to imply that Sawyer wasn't still a conman. But the orig story had him killing the wrong man in error - and he was devastated by that. The LA timeline has him happy and carefree. So my thought is that maybe he didn't kill the fake Sawyer in Oz, just as maybe Hurley didn't go to talk to the widow, and maybe Sun and Jin are not married.

Mike V. said...

Sounds like we're all processing the same stuff at different times LOL I agree, and also mentioned MIB being trapped in cabin doesn't make sense if smokey was on a rampage from season 1 to season 3. It would make sense if there are 2 Smoke Monsters, pending lots of other answers. I don't really like that idea...but i'm sure the writers could sell it!

Look at even this past episode (and I may have mentioned this earlier in comments or in the blog)....how did Jacob know about Jin being with the French Team at the Temple? Is he omnicient or was HE the smoke monster that tore off Mauntaun's arm? Didn't they say that the monster was a security system for the temple? So then why are the people in present day putting ash everywhere to protect from MIB/Smokey? Maybe MIB had a job description as the smoke monster, but he's gone rogue and is trying to get out of it or something?

Maybe this helps put the 2 smokey's to rest. Damon said on Jimmy Kimmel that the man in black is "THE" smoke monster. Would he definitively have said that if there were more than one?

But Jacob is definitely some kind of spiritual presence too. I like whoever said that maybe Jacob was taking the form of these animals on the island.

I dunno...I keep going back and forth with all of this stuff. I'm hoping one line of dialogue from Christian Shephard talking to Jack or something can clear it up! LOL

Anonymous said...

Now we know what the ash DOES, but do we know what it IS? What is it made of? The ashes of WHAT? It sure didn't seem to stop Smokey much with Bram. And if the Darma folks used the ash (instead of the electric fence) wouldn't the rain constantly wash it away? Why didn't it wash away at the cabin? I think the ash is effective sometimes, in a pinch, but not all the time. Back to some earlier topics, yes, I think Sayid did sound strange (and LOOKED strange) when he woke up, and good catch on the Ms. Paik at the airport. I don't think they were married, hence I don't think she speaks English yet. I think we have far too many new questions after only one episode and not enough information to come to any remotely reasonable conclusions at this point. But it's still interesting to hear everyone's ideas! Thanks Mike for keeping this up! Interesting as always! One Confused Cajun

Mike V. said...

agree MJ that maybe Sawyer didn't kill anyone in alternate timeline.

Hmmm...here's something to ponder with a ripple effect. If island is submerged in this other timeline...what would happen with charles widmore, eloise hawking....even the birth of daniel faraday? What if Christian Shephard had been on the island before in original timeline....and he never had a chance to go in this timeline? Maybe he treats Jack differently in new timeline throughout his life. maybe they have an entirely different relationship. All speculation.

but someone mentioned Richard saying he saw people die...THAT version of Richard probably just saw them disappear. Maybe we'll see it in the Richard-centric story!

we still don't know what that submerged island is all about and if it has anything to do with jughead exploding.

I know there are holes there...and it doesn't really make sense with the 2 timelines...but i think right now it's not supposed to make sense. we're missing some key element that will be uncovered slowly through the season! Hopefully it makes sense then!

Mike V. said...

Cajun...all good questions with the ash...so I'm not going to try and answer them with something I don't know! lol

BUT...the way smokey got to Bram was by punching the ceiling and getting him out of the cirle of ash that way. He never touched him until he was out of the circle for a brief second...then BRAM was toast through the tapestry machine LOL ouch!

Weasel said...

A couple of things:

In the "alternate" time-line, the "numbers" would not be needed as there would not have been a button to push.

Also, the Alt-Losties land in 2004. The Losties appear back in 2007 (we know this because Jacob is dead). Whats to say that the Alt-Losties do not somehow get together and go back in time (even though they said time travel is done) and cause the bomb not to go off thus creating a time loop.

One last thing... Eko and Locke were talking about the smoke monster, there was something said about them each seeing something different...

Weasel said...

...on my second thought. Maybe not back in time themselves, but they all travel to the island in 2007 on the 316 flight again, then flash and become the Losties that went back in time. confusing... and I am confusing myself more, I think!

cdstedman said...

If you listen to podcasts here’s one for you.

http://geronimojacksbeard.blogspot.com/

It’s Jorge Garcia and his girlfriend trying to figure out each episode from the scripts. It’s funny stuff.

Liz said...

Wow look at all of these comments! Some great theorizing is going on.

I keep coming back to Locke's dream from Cabin Fever about Horace. Now I always assumed that the cabin was for the Goodspeed klan (Horace/Amy/Ethan) and that perhaps the Cabin was located outside of Dharmaville and thus outside of the sonic fence, which is why the ash was used as protection.

Now again this was only my assumption - and obviously at some point the Cabin became Jacob's. Or did it?

Now when Ben took Locke to the Cabin initially we never see Jacob, what we saw was the odd Christ-like shadowy figure and then all that crazy stuff happens. So does this mean Jacob can take some sort of other form? Ehhh, I'm not so sure. I've been beginning to think that Jacob is just himself. We've never been shown Jacob as anything other than Mark Pettigrew. And if Ben never saw Jacob - how can we be certain that it was indeed him? The voice told John to "help me". Maybe the MIB? Ahhh I don't know! So much to ponder.

Mike V. said...

Weasel...you thoroughly confused me on that one! lol But, I will say one thing. I think the people that say the new timeline LOSTIES won't go back in time is Team Darlton! They have already dismmissed any more time travel! Now, whether we believe them or not is your call! I still want answers on Desmond being unique and the rules not applying to him! But maybe it's beyond time travel....like why he was on the plane and disappeared in this last episode. So bizarre!

the podcast sounds hysterical stedman..i'll have to check that out!


very good points Liz! Why was this Horace's cabin and then all of a sudden known as Jacob's cabin? seems like there is a story to be told there. But...another story to be told would be whether Horace would know that the ash would keep smokey out! And of course...I don't think Horace would have created the magical moving ability of the cabin lol

LOL...too much Harry Potter on the brain..I thihnk you meant Mark Pelligrino! (Not Peter Pettigrew!) As for the rest of that comment...yeah that's what we've been discussing in all of these comments....what if it wasn't Jacob...what if it was the man in black trapped in a ring of ash? but how did he get there?

And of course...if Ben never met Jacob...how did he know about the cabin? Was it from his dreams that he "used to have?" Who initiates these dreams? Jacob, MIB, the Island itself?

Wow...just don't know how they're gonna answer all of this! But I agree...lots to ponder!

crazy thoughts said...

I want to know why they took the jacket off sayid if they were only going to hold him under water. I was wondering if it had to due with the fact it was a dharma product.

If richard was actually in chains on the black rock and got free. Why would he have not save the others on the ship.

I still dont understand why charlie swallowed the drugs and not just put it his rear like most people. I think charlie was commiting suicide.

Where is the rest of the statue. I always assumed it was in the water so we couldn't see it but in the water shot i didn't see any remains.

Why do you think jack was the only one who somewhat remembered desmond if that even was desmond.

I want to know if cindy knew that jack didn't need the second bottle. And by the way i went to australia last year and drinks are free for the whole trip so she wasn't doing him a big favor you can get hammered on that plane ride.

Liz said...

Ha! I knew Pettigrew wasn't right, but I was too lazy to search for his real last name.

I always thought Horace and Richard had a strange understanding between them. Random tangent - it's always bothered me that Amy's first husband, Paul, had an ankh necklace. Now what's up with that?! Maybe the Dharma people did know some of secrets!

Anonymous said...

In Korean culture women don't change their names when they get married, so Jin and Sun could be married but the customs guy just referred to her as "Miss"

Rukshan said...

Nice call on Horace Liz, may be the Ash was for Horace, but its more likely that it was meant to keep smokey out and may be MIB in this him asking John to help him.

I dont think Charlie tried to comit suicide, it was just before landing and he only swallowed it to get rid of it and get it back for later use.. you cant voluntarily choke like that.

I don't think Jack recognized Desmon from the island, it was from that stadium where they met when he was training for the boat race....

Mike V. said...

Yeah...i thought the same thing about Paul and was gonna mention it in the blog...but i too was too lazy to look up HIS name! LOL nice.

Crazy thoughts:

Are you asking weren't asking me why I thought that about jack or...are you are asking why IS jack the only one that recognized him? I'll assume the 2nd. I can even go one further. Did anyone else even see him??? Rose said she was sleeping...she may have been implying it was for the whole time and not just when desmond got up. I have no idea why Jack seemed to be the only one disoriented and having some serious deja vu. But it might be a clue to something. Maybe they're all going to start having it eventually!

I agree...i think charlie was trying for suicide...he even asked "am i alive?" Jack happily says yes...and then Charlie rolls his eyes and said "terrific" and then he told him later "you were supposed to let me die" so yeah i think that was pretty clear. But yeah...when i first wrote the blog, I just felt like making fun of him trying to hide it by swallowing it! lol

good question about the rest of the statue...i just want to know what happened to make it only one foot...then that might get us the answer to where it is!

it would be very interesting if Cindy knew he wouldn't need the 2nd bottle....i have always wondered why Cindy assimilated into the OTHERS so easily, and without question...and she still seemed that way in the 2nd hour last night saying so matter of factly "he was on the 1st plane with me" Maybe she has always been one of the OTHERS....afterall...we know that some of Jacob's people were on Ajira 316...who is to say they didn't have people on Oceanic 815 too? (funny about the free booze on the plane btw!)

good question about Sayid's jumpsuit...i'd like to say it was just an excuse to get some of them out of DHARMA gear a little at a time...but who knows?!? Maybe it got them closer to the wound or something.

Mike V. said...

anonymous...it wasn't the MISS that threw me on Sun...it was the Miss PAIK She has always gone by Sun Kwon. Her father's last name is Paik. So I don't think it was something worth writing off. But I could be wrong!

yeah but rukshan..did desmond even go on the race in this timeline? Was widmore killed on the island when it submerged therefore him not even needing to earn his honor. Hell..was Penny even born? so many questions by that island being in a different state! So...all of that would butterfly into Desmond possibly not being at the stadium talking to penny...and then running while jack is running. Crazy, right??

Weasel said...

I must have confused you well, as you did not touch on my Numbers theory. Some commenters wondered where the numbers would be coming from in the Non-crash time-line, I was pointing out that there would be no numbers at all because the hatch was never build in that time-line... the h-bomb worked

Mike V. said...

Sorry weasel I just can't keep up with all of the comments lol I never really associated the invention of the numbers with the dharma swan hatch. Yeah it was the serial number (which was posted on there Pre incident) and it was the code entered in the computer but I always thought there was more to the numbers with the island than just that!

We will see I guess!

Anonymous said...

There were a number of brilliant scenes in this episode, but the two that sold it both featured Terry O’Quinn in completely different roles. In the airport scene, he was quiet and calm with Jack, while raising the important point that the airline may not know where his father’s body is, but they certainly have no idea where “he” is. The idea of the afterlife has been playing into Lost for a while now, but this season it’s increasingly coming to the forefront: while Locke’s dead body and his image being utilized by the Man in Black is perhaps a deeper example, we also have the fact that Miles can speak to the dead, and the fact that Claire is back in our narrative full time (and, let’s remember, presumed dead). While it’s clear the island itself is not a form of purgatory, we saw Sayid rise from the dead at the end of the hour, so that scene within the alternate reality offers an important thematic commentary on the island story. It was also, at the same time, just a great chance to see Locke and Jack interacting again, something that hasn’t happened in a long while thanks to the fracture narrative. While the two narratives are unlikely to ever “meet” or speak to one another directly, seeing characters we know interacting with each other in new ways is satisfying in ways that go beyond nostalgia, and which feel a real grounding force for the other side of the story.

O’Quinn’s other big scene, his epic teardown of John Locke’s psychological state, was equally important in terms of establishing the link between the two realities. The idea that Locke was the one who never wanted to leave, the one whose life was so sad (and whose life on the island was so improved physically/emotionally) that he had no interest of going back, resonates both to the character’s tragic end and the show’s current themes. It’s a brilliant scene in that it’s being delivered by a doppelganger of the man in question, creating a fantastic bit of representation, but it also works as a way to remind us about how the island changed people, and how they responded to it. At the same time as it tells us part of the Man in Black’s plan, with his desire to go home (to the temple? to somewhere else entirely?) and all, it also reminds us who John Locke was when the show first began. Despite the story getting bigger than ever before, and that scene being tied to the mythology, it still boils down to these characters, even those who are technically dead in the “present.” And that’s a brilliant way of using narrative complexity in order to simplify rather than confuse, and that the episode’s initial “WTF” reaction eventually came to something so simple and precise is a sign of some truly great writing and performance from the usual crowd.

Especially since, as noted, the stuff on the island wasn’t particularly normal. First and foremost, to get it out of the way: I do not believe it was entirely necessary to re-kill Juliet! While her final scene with Sawyer was emotional, and while her speaking from the dead raised that nice question of “What worked?” that will likely run through the season as we see if the two realities eventually converge in direct ways (my money’s on Desmond as their Constant – quote me on that), it seemed like an unnecessary bit of emotional story. The rivalry between Sawyer and Jack spilling over gave the affair a sense of continuity, but Juliet re-dying felt distracting – perhaps if she hadn’t already gotten another show, and there was actually a chance of her surviving, it might have been worth the return, but it seemed unnecessary. However, they would likely make the argument that giving Sawyer closure helps to keep Juliet’s memory from dominating the rest of the story, and since there seems to be a lot of that I will give the benefit of the doubt in this case.


Steven Blair

Anonymous said...

Also Mike V, Michael Giacchino’s music sold this episode to perfection, didn't it? His emotional themes were right where they needed to be, and sometimes I forget how action sequences are elevated by his musical style and how much that keeps scenes like Jack running around in the dark from seeming repetitive. He’s the show’s not-so secret weapon, and if he doesn’t pick up at least an Emmy nomination for the show’s final season I'll really be upset.

Frankly, if truth be known, I suspect we'll see a lot of Emmys passed out to quite a few members of Lost. Hope so anyway.

Steven Blair

steelmonkey said...

Did anyone else pick up on the Jesus references around Sayid? After he drowned, he was carried out of the water arms out in blatant Jesus pose, and then proceeded to rise from the dead at the end of the episode.

Taking it a bit further, the drowning could symbolize baptism in the Jordan, which is known for its murky waters (though not really red).

Taking it way too far, you could say that sayid died so that others could be saved, and that being middle eastern with the beard and long hair, sayid even sort of has the jesus-vibe goin on.

This is probably just a bit of symbolism and imagery (like scorsese death scenes) rather than the direction that lost is going. interesting to think how this relates to the sayid-is-now-jacob theory and also how it plays into the constant good/evil morality themes and the other biblical references in the show.

Some food for thought

rhinoceros said...

Great write up, fair bit of work.

I can't manage to read all comments, it's pretty massive.

Anyway, about the ep. I have no questions.


;)

I kid. Anyhow, my only comment is there any relation to Jacobs guitar case note to jacob's 'list' we have heard about over the previous eseasons? I think the timing is off though, just an idea

Mike V. said...

Steven, some great points there. But I should let you know that the producers are really enforcing the fact that the other timeline is NOT an "ALTERNATE REALITY" They don't subscribe to that idea on LOST. They FULLY expect both timelines to intersect at some point...but we should be wondering how they are related. It will be a slow burn throughout the season. AND btw...from now on, i will probably be calling them "FLASH SIDEWAYS" because that's what the producers are referring to them as.

Couldn't agree with you more on Michael Giacchino's scores...they have been awesome and continue to be! Here's my claim to fame...Michael G. actually went to my high school in Jersey! Of course, we went at different times but it's still cool! Also totally agree with Terry O'Quinn's scenes. The man is a genius actor (along with Emerson)...and the scenes were very pivotal for the show.

Steel Monkey, yep, picked up on the Christ references....they've done that a lot on the show...even with locke dying and "rising again" (sorta)....of couse...one could argue that sayid looks a little more like Jesus lol

Interesting with the baptism comments too.....and thanks for mentioning MURKY....i've been saying the water was red...but the producers were referring to it as "DIRTY" Not sure if there's a big difference, but they said dirty! lol

(speaking of which...the audio podcast is up with Damon and Carlton on itunes and on abc.com...it's great as always!)

Thanks Rhino! Yeah, I think Jacob has had many lists in his time...and I am thinking that this yet again...is ANOTHER LIST....but with further instructions as well. We'll see!

Keep the discussion going guys..it's a good time!

davidsalako said...

Oh yeah! also, if you google map the address on jack's card (that he gives to Locke) there is a building that looks like a submarine and a structure that looks like the Dharma logos:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=8444+Wilshire+Blvd,+Beverly+Hills,+Los+Angeles,+California+90211&sll=34.064895,-118.375138&sspn=0.027268,0.038581&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=8444+Wilshire+Blvd,+Beverly+Hills,+Los+Angeles,+California+90211&ll=34.064743,-118.375262&spn=0.000848,0.001206&t=h&z=20

Mike V. said...

Thanks David, I saw that as a screenshot on one of the other sites, but I had no idea what the big deal was. I checked it out. Pretty funny! lol I wonder if that was intentional.

davidsalako said...

I think it definitely was intentional.
They typically use fake addresses and 'phone numbers (555-XXXX) on TV.

Mike V. said...

Yeah...i know about phone numbers...and the ones on Jack's card DO say 555...Addresses, yeah that probably makes sense that they would usually use fake ones too. It says that building is some Entertainment Building in Beverly hills lol....bizarre.

davidsalako said...

The Numbers will definitely be back I am certain in an unexpected way.

Mike V. said...

Oh yeah....Darlton said we can definitely expect some NUMBERS action this season. I love those crazy numbers!

davidsalako said...

It would also be great to see some of the great "Others" characters show up again in some form - Ethan, Mikhail, Mr. Friendly and Bea Klugh.
Perhaps we might be surprised by the other folks that will be on the Black Rock ship??
The island being underwater may eventually explain how the Black Rock ended up in the middle of the jungle.
My imagination is running amuck! LOL!

Rukshan said...

Wasn't the foot Jacobs home since we first saw him weaving there and also,when he meets MIB he is at his home cooking up fish. Guess this could mean that Jacob always lived at the foot and Richard knew this as he lead the people there and not to he cabin.
May the cabin was MIBs prison and ben was assumed it was Jacob. It's unlikely that Jacob would dislike a flashlight, as he was in LA riding in the back of a taxi cab. We need to figure out who John saw in that cabin.

As for charlie trying to commit suicide, poor call by the creators. It's medically impossible to cause self harm in that way as the gag reflex would kick in and he would throw it up, and it's a agonizing and noisy way to go.

If the statue was destroed by the H bomb the debris may have been blown far away or in to dust. What if dharma rebuilt the island after te H bomb with bomb shelters under the houses then the hydra would still be around to transmit the numbers.

Looks like Jack and John may have key roles in the island, from day one they were 2 forces to be delay with. Jack was the one who always wanted to go home, while John was the one looking for a deeper meaning and looking to protect the island and he was willing to kill for it (Knife throwing) what if they depict MIB and Jacob.

Crazy thoughts , and just rambling as usual ... Had to kill some time and just can't wait for the next ep.

gnni4 said...

After thinking for a couple days I am coming up with even more questions and confusion.
Here are some random thoughts:

The original plane was 1,000 miles off course when the losties crashed onto the island, so how did the foundies plane fly over the island? (I don’t know what to call those folks, and my son suggested that they are not the losties anymore now!)

Also, since they are not in an alternate timeline, could this be another flash forward - the end resolution/reset that we just don’t realize yet?

John Locke mentions Mesopotamia to Walt in the pilot when he is telling him about backgammon. The temple looks remarkably like a ziggurat, a Mesopotamian temple. How many cultures and symbols does the island borrow from? I see so many, it becomes a collage, a tapestry of ideas.

Agree with Stephen, killing Juliet AGAIN was just cruel to us.

Reading on other sites that people are calling the glasses guy Lennon, and some critic said he looked like John Lennon….hate it. Except for wearing glasses, he doesn’t look like John Lennon to me. I assume that we will find out his name is Lennon (or Sawyer will nickname him that) and that jerky people are leaking it early to make themselves look oh so smart (or try).

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to have more information about Bea Klugh, I always thought that she was an easter egg somehow, B Clue? Why was she so willing to just die to protect secrets? I think that we are going to see more Ethan this season.

Love this blog the most, love your followers, great discussions and comments and like minded folks!

~~~~~~~~Jennifer

davidsalako said...

Thought about the comment Jennifer made about the bizarro alternate timeline Flight 815 still flying over the island even though they were not off course in this new scenario.
I think the answer to that is that Oceanic Flight 815 on Sept 22nd 2004 and Ajira 316 and I would guess the Black Rock's sailing route were/are ALWAYS going to have intersecting paths with where the island is located in that timeline on those dates. A constant. No matter what.
Another interesting point is that Jack's address on the business card to Locke in the "new" 2004:
8444 Wilshire Blvd, Beverly Hills, Los Angeles, California 90211
"8444" comprises two of "the numbers - 4 and 8"
The zipcode of 90211 adds up to 22 - the date of flight 815 is September 22nd and September is the 9th month of the Juilan calendar.

davidsalako said...

90211 could also be:
9 = September
2x11 = 22

cdstedman said...

Jennifer
They way I see it, the reason there is such a collage of cultures on the island is because Jacob brought them all to the island. The earliest we’ve seen is the black rock but Jacob’s and MIB’s conversation revealed they were not the first. Jacob brought many more before the Black Rock and they all contributed to the many different structures on the island

Mike V. said...

Jennifer, Thanks for the compliments! I love reading everyone's thoughts too and am still glad everyone enjoys the blog! BTW, the guy's name is definitely Lennon...that's the role he was cast as. It is what his name is in imdb. I used that name throughout the blog post as well! Of course, we may find out he has another name but for now that is the name we're supposed to use! lol He doesn't look totally like John Lennon...but there is a somewhat resemblance with the hair and the glasses.

very good point on the plane flying over the island but not being off course. of course, we do know the island moves through space and time...so maybe it just happened to be under the plane in this scenario anyway! It's a magical and mysterious place! LOL And David makes a good point about FATE/Constants too. I also thought or read other people's thoughts about the flash sideways being a FlashForward to the END state of things...but i dunno. Why did Juliet experience the coffee thing in the present then? Unless she had a Flash of the future (desmond-like)... so crazy...

i have no doubt we'll be seeing some of the crazy OTHERS again...especially mr. friendly and Ethan. They can't let the show end without us seeing them. And of course..in a Richard centric story...we should be able to see all of the OTHERS again.

But we do know that Ethan was born in DHARMA so he wouldn't be with the Black Rock crew!

David...that was a lot of analysis on those numbers! lol good stuff.

Mike V. said...

good point with Jacob, Stedman...that could be where all the different cultures are coming from.

OH...and Jennifer....Jack and crew will ALWAYS be LOSTIES to us regardless of their timeline! lol And more so, LOST on the surface may have been a show about being LOST on an island...but all of these characters have been LOST in their lives trying to find some redemption. We may find out that things aren't so different without the ISLAND in their lives. We'll see!

davidsalako said...

Just as many of the paths of the LOSTIES had intersected both knowingly and unknowingly in their various lives, the intersecting paths of the Oceanic flight, Ajira flight, Nigerian plane, Black Rock and goodness knows what else will always intersect with the ever moving island.

People and civilizations have definitely been coming to the island for hundreds if not thousands of years.

The polyglot (and heightened martial arts) skills of several of the characters on the show also point to the hodge podge of world cultures, religions and civilizations. Not to mention the diversity.

Mike V. said...

Sneak Peak Clip from the next episode! Literally like 10 seconds but it's still a good time!

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b165874_lost_sneak_peek_you_have_few_questions.html?sid=twitterfeed_kristin&utm_source=eonline&utm_medium=twitterfeed&utm_campaign=twitterfeed_kristin

Mike V. said...

Try this instead:

Sneak Peak at Episode 6.03

Rukshan said...

Ahhhh the creepy puppet guy from heroes is the taxi driver!!!.... May be flash forward will plug in to lost some how and we can all get confused together...

willthereallockepleasestandup said...

Hurley ate me,
It is apparent you still live in your parents basement and don't have anything better to do than watch this show. Have you not taken any time to watch the previous seasons? Do you have any concept of this show? Try blogging again when you are up to date.

Anonymous said...

Not really been following Lost for a long period time, so help me out will ya? Have we had a Richard-centric episode yet? His non-aging has to be caused/allowed by something right? And is there anybody else like him around?

Mike V. said...

Real Locke. Come on man. There is no need for that!

Anonymous. No we have not have a Richard centric episode but one is coming this season! All we know is that Richard said "I am this way because of Jacob" and we know that Jacob has appeared for over a hundred years (plus) looking the same age as well. More to be unveiled this year!

HurleyAteMe said...

Got a chance to watch a replay 2nite and have a couple of thoughts.

when Juliet died, I noticed obvious background noise before she told Sawyer she had something important to tell him and it stopped when she died. a few seconds later fast forward to Jack pulling dope out of Charlies mouth, you hear the same background noise,, it is the airplane that is making the same noise in both scenes,,yet they are 3 years apart, you can clearly hear the airplane rumbling above the music as Juliette dies (cool)

this may have already been noted but I remember some comments about
Christian Shephard/body/ coffin discussion. and in this episode, it is clearly stated that The Coffin never made it on the plane. Since we all saw Jack beat the crap out of his dad's coffin in season one then where in the world is Christian's body?

I earlier mentioned that I felt the SM could be killed in human form, and what I should have said is the substitute body the SM is using could be killed or destroyed!! why else would Flocke have ran from Bram' posse inside the Foot?

and finally when Flocke came out of The Foot statue, He said something about being disappointed in everyone,, That keeps me on the hook thinking that maybe the MIB is the good guy,, like maybe Jacob has fooled all of these followers he has into serving him! but Who knows???

EJ said...

Glad we're back!

One thing I didn't see mentioned in the comments so far..... Does anyone see any meaning in Sayid's remorse about his Life as Torturer, and his question about (fear of?) what will happen to him when he dies? This takes place outside the van, before departing for the temple.

Anonymous said...

Just wanted to reiterate with a couple of comments above. So they brought Juliet back from her awesome, bad ass death scene last year, to give her a weak, slow death the next episode? Weak.

I understand her being on V and all but the only purpose I saw in bringing her back was her NOT being able to tell Sawyer important.


Should have just let her rest in piece(s). Willie Talbot

Anonymous said...

Hey guys...grat write up. Love the lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng and lengthy comments. Hope everybody stays this excited all year.

Just wondering....if the magic swimming pool of water is so magical, why didn't Ben take his dead daughter there? Certainly, he remembered it from his youth.

As far as that is concerned, why not take all those that "died" recently (whatever death means on Lost...LOL). Why couldn't they take Juliet or someone else they really cared about? I suppose that they would need some sort of permission/distraction, etc. but it could be done, right?

Anonymous said...

Anony....that's freaking hilarious! Let's just resurrect the whole island of misfits while we're at it. Throw in dead Locke, Artz, Libby, the dead pilot, how about the freaking polar bear too!!!! L O L Talk about your alternate universes running wild! LOL

I haven't laughed this hard in a long time. Thanks for that.

Greg P.

Rukshan said...

haha even I was thinking why they wont take Juliet to the jacuzzi... but I think its invitees and DYING only, not already DEAD.

Mike V. said...

Lol agreed. I think it's only for people not dead yet because DEAD IS DEAD on lost. But that was some funny stuff!

I'll comment more later. On my phone right now!

Brendan said...

Hey Mike, great job as always, I'm rewatching it now, what do you make of the background noises when Miles is pressing his ear to Juliet's grave? I think there's a plane sound and that similar sound to when Locke was getting dragged into the hole by the SM in season 1.

Anonymous said...

Willie Talbot here again...ok, so maybe Juliet deserved to die again, who knows?

I do have some other thoughts though. Such as, I think Miles was lying when he said the important thing Juliet was trying to say was that "it worked". I think she was saying she was pregnant, because Juliet was holding her stomach in the season finale and Miles said that what Juliet said didn't matter now.

- Interesting how Charlie said he "was supposed to die".
- Cindy said Jack & co. were on "the first plane". What is the second plane? The alternate timeline?
-Can Jacob or Flocke really ever die? Seems to me that they'll just keep living thru others throughout eternity.
-Why can't Flocke go home--wherever home is? What is keeping him bound to the island?
-Aren't the producers now playing a psychoish version of "It's a Wonderful Life"? Geesh.
-Or are we experiencing more of "Schrödinger's cat" syndrome?
Thank you Wikipedia.
-Ben no longer looks like he knows it all does he? I miss THAT Ben. Now he's just a pawn in cruel chessgame of life, afterlife, and death.
More comments later. Willie Talbot

plumbarius said...

Great recap Mike and I can't believe I just read all comments at one sitting!!

Saturday morning ritual is back-check

Total confusion about what is happening-check

Spending too much time thinking about show-check

Can't wait for next episode-check

Love all the theories and comments from a dedicated bunch!!

Kathleen said...

I wasn't baffled when Miles quoted Juliet, "It worked". I took this to mean that Jack's plan to detonate the bomb and stop the first plane crash was what "worked". Maybe the bomb detonation, even though it killed Juliet, really did prevent the whole island episode and everyone will now be able to carry on their previous lives as it nothing ever happened. But of course, on LOST, it is never as simple as this. We are in for a wild ride!

Mike V. said...

yeah i agree with kathleen...."it worked" has to do with the whole jughead/reset plan. But HOW it worked, we still don't know.

didn't notice the background noise stuff but i'll have to look into it again when i rewatch (for a 3rd time lol)

willie...2nd plane is Ajira 316...i got confused by this at first too...but then i slapped myself and said "duhhh" lol but this is what made me start thinking (well actually continue thinking) that Cindy has been involved since before flight 815..(take 1)....and that she was one of THE OTHERS planed on the plane...just like we had Ilana and crew on ajira 316.... we'll see!

EJ....i think sayid looking back on his life was a continuation of the season 5 finale when he was saying stuff like "nothing can save me now" .....he is just so distraught with the things he has done in his life and really does not care to live any longer. Which is why he agreed to Jack's suicide plan in the first place. And he may have gotten his wish...but we need to watch this tuesday to see what really went down. and we still may not get a clear answer! lol

thanks for the props on the blog as always guys...glad the rituals remain intact for the final season!

btw...some good conversation going on on my Gather.com post as well.....check it out if you still need more of a fix! (link is at the bottom of the blog post)

davidsalako said...

Something else that I remembered from Season 5.
Remember the several "time jumps" our time traveling LOSTIES experienced all seemed to coincide with important events in the islands history?
One of the jumps was while they were in the out-rigger/canoe thing and then it started raining and they shot someone in another out-rigger/canoe that was chasing them.
Somehow, I think that was an important scene and we haven't been told yet who they shot or who were in the other out-rigger/canoe.
Perhaps this will be explained this season???
**********
BTW, I heard the sound effects to in the scenes some folks on the blog are referring to. I just thought that they were part of the ambient soundtrack/background music of the show. Heard it to in earlier seasons in scenes with the Smoke Monster and John Locke to!

davidsalako said...

PS. Penelope Widmore's seemingly easy acceptance of the island and its strange properties, understanding Desmond's story and 3 year sojourn on the island has always kind of bothered me regarding the writing of the show.
IDK if the writers feel that this isn't important to the main thrust of the story of the show or if this new bizzaro timeline will shed some light on this?

Mike V. said...

real good point david...i kept expecting that to happen in season 5...but it better happen THIS season! lol

i'm wondering if Penny will even exist in the new timeline...because if the island is submerged....what happened to widmore's life on the island? lots of butterfly effects in effect!

davidsalako said...

The actor that plays Charles Widmore and the actresses that play Penelope Widmore and the older Eloise Hawking are such scene stealers and great talents to watch that I hope they get a lot of screen time this season!
Hopefully Cynthia Watros (Libby "Smith") to! LOL!

Timothy said...

Hey mike sorry if this was already mentioned - in season 3's 'flashes before your eyes' Desmond has red paint on his neck while back in his 'past'. Much like Jack on the plane. The significance obviously is that in that episode, Desmond had glimpses of his 'past' which were really his future before being knocked out in the pub and sent back to the island. My guess is that something similar will happen to the 2004 storyline and they'll end up back on the island where we found them this week, maybe with the knowledge to see flashes like Desmond had. Just a guess of course!

Great job as always. Again, sorry if someone else posted this. I try to read all the comments each week but didn't this time.

Tim

Mike V. said...

Tim, not mentioned exactly like that...but i like the reference to the red on Jack and the paint on desmond. i had a theory over the hiatus months that the INCIDENT was always with Jughead and that it would blow Jack and crew back into the past to relive some moments with flashes of the future similar to desmond...

but it's not going exactly like that.....we are seeing a ripple effect in time that has caused things to be different. In desmond's case he went back and relived exact moments of his life....but with memories of the FUTURE. and the flashes never stopped when he returned to the island.

There are similarities though...with Jack seeming to think he has been through some of the things before...and recognizing desmond. So there could be SOME kind of similarity.

Some people are speculating that the events in 2004...are actually "THE FUTURE" for Jack and crew who are on the island in season 6....maybe the REBOOT hasn't necessarily happened yet and the endgame of lost will cause that. I would like to buy into that theory...but then calling these flashes "FLASH SIDEWAYS" by the producers would make much sense. It's almost like the events are coinciding at the same time....and that the characters exist in both timelines but are somehow connected.

I'm talking out of ass right now....I'm excited to see what they have in store! lol

and David...i agree on alan dale and sonya walger.....great acting from the 2 of them!!

and i don't want to spoil about LIBBY...but i would definitely keep anticipating her return! LOL

davidsalako said...

I am thinking that the bizarro 2004 timeline can be called flash-sideways from the perspective of season 1. They have always maintained that season 6 will have a similar feel and narrative style to season 1 and it does look like there are similarities even in the titles of the episodes. E.g. Season 1: "What Kate Did" & Season 6: "What Kate Does".
************
I thought about what Penny called the red paint on Desmond's neck in "Flash before your eyes" to. It is in the exact same location as bizzaro Jack's in
"LA X".
A side effect of the time traveling consciousness?
We are also assuming that the time traveling "reboot" happens at the same time for all the characters - perhaps it happens at different times?
************
Another point to note is that all the leaders of the Others that we know of so far - Widmore, Eloise, Benjamin (Jacob & ManInBlack to) seem to be prevented from killing each other by some island rules so far. Only Locke who arguably was never supposed to be the leader of the Others seems to break this rule. Does this rule apply to Jack and Sawyer to?

Anonymous said...

Hey Mike, et al...check out this video. Pretty cool stuff:

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2010/02/a_tale_of_two_oceanic_flight_815s.php

Anonymous said...

Hmmm....seems that the link didn't work right.

Try this one:

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2010/02/a_tale_of_two_oceanicflight_815s.php

Basically, it's a 90 second youtube video showing both 815 incidents side-by-side. Very, very interesting.

vfxdrummer said...

JD in SCS - YES! Good observation that the same events (character interactions) are happening in the off-island reality as on-island. Destiny!

In a related vein, wasn't one of the themes we learned through Desmond / Eloise that the universe 'course corrects itself'? It could very well be that in the alternate reality, our favorite losties still end up on the island. You never know?

Also - anyone else think that the alternate reality might of been triggered by Desmond activating the failsafe in season 2? Could this be the result of the 'purple sky'.

vfxdrummer said...

One more thing - does anyone think that Ben was being manipulated by MIB his entire life, thinking / being told it was Jacob? Richard did seem shook up by Jacob's death, so maybe there's a flaw in my thinking. (Richard was wearing black though, along with the 'shadow of the statue' people)

When Ben brought Locke to 'Jacob's Cabin', if our thinking is correct that MIB / smokey was in there, the question is, did Ben know that? If Ben didn't know, did MIB manipulate him to thinking he (MIB) was Jacob?

I think that Ben was trying to do 'good' his entire life, but was being manipulated by MIB, whom he thought was Jacob.

btw - Thanks for this amazing blog! My wife and I started watching LOST on hulu the last week of December, and made it through all 5 seasons as of 2 days ago. It was a great ride, consuming almost all of our free time (after watching 0 TV for 6 months, we were entitled). I read every blog entry after the relevant episode. It helped me catch all the little details. You guys are great! I'm looking forward to watching the rest of the season in 'real time'. At least, in this reality.

I think the whole Desmond theme of the universe 'course corrects' mixed with the good only 'Denstiny' message will be what this season reinforces for the message of the series as a whole.

Mike V. said...

vfx....you're welcome for the blog. Thanks for your dedication in reading!! Very impressive to catch up on the whole show in 2 months (maybe even less!)

interesting with the desmond hatch theory and the alternate reality. I still want to know what the purple sky was but i don't know if it's the immediate result of the 2 timelines. I have to think that desmond's result in blowing the hatch...and jack and crew's result in jugheading the PRE-hatch...are related somehow though!

anonymous..thanks for those links! i actually had posted the first 2 minutes on gather.com before it aired and someone had thrown that comparison video on youtube moments after the leak. Still pretty cool to watch!!

david..should be interesting to see if the whole paint/blood thing pans out. but desmond was COVERED in paint...just wasnt his neck! lol I think we have to be mindful that the producers said they are done telling time travel stories....so I do like the theories (and thought them myself) that the LOSTIES are going through a similar experience that Desmond went through....and still think it can be true to some extent. But in regards to time travel and course correction, i'm not sure they're going to go in that direction! we'll see!

davidsalako said...

Mike- you are probably correct about the time traveling thing, I don't see how they can totally avoid it and the flashbacks but then again I am not TEAM DARLTON!! LOL!

Desmond was covered with red paint and then in a later scene he had cleaned it all up but Penny noticed the spot on his neck - seemed a strange thing to focus on.

Jack had been covered in blood, pre-Jughead detonation and then on bizzaro Oceanic 815 he notices the blood or wound or whatever it was in the same spot as Desmonds - seemed a strange thing to focus on to!!

vfxdrummer said...

I've thought more about this.

I do think that the alternate LA timeline is meant to show us what role FATE plays in our character's lifes. We are in a timeline where flight 815 doesn't crash, but I think we will see all the same (or similiar but relatedly) events play out during the stretch of the timeline as season 1. This should should function to prove that all the characters have a DESTINY, and the universe COURSE CORRECTS to ensure the distiny, no matter what.

The major question is 'when did this LA no crashing timeline happen'? Well, there are many possibilities - here's how I see them :

1) As is the formula on lost, my best guess is that this will probably be the last chronological timeline in the show. i.e. they do 'something' to trigger the reboot / complete their task (which we are yet to see and they transport to this no crashing timeline'. Evidence to support this is the focus on the cut on Jack's neck. Anyone else remember seeing that cut, yet? I don't.

2) They are transported to this timeline right after they blow the swan hatch in '77. I don't see much evidence to support this possibility as we don't see them having any recollection in the 2007 timeline, but this is LOST, it is a possibility.

3) This timeline occurs directly after Desmond turns the failsafe key. Well, this would certainly explain Desmond on the plane. (then again we could be yet to see Desmond in future '07 timeline as 'his work on the island is not done'.). The end of season 2 was a fairly dramatic cliffhanger that I still feel is unresolved. We literally have 'missing time' there to deal with. Maybe the nuke in '77 happened as it always happened, the swan hatch was built over it, and it was NOT PUSHING THE BUTTON that was the major event that changed things (when Desmond turned the failsafe key). In literal terms, the failsafe key rebooted everything. It's a stretch, but considering all the important events happening that night, and the fact that they traveled back to it on another occasion, I really want to believe that the failsafe served a bigger purpose that we don't know about yet.

We could debate / postulate until we are blue in the face, but the good news to all this is the we will find out within the next few months! Woo hoo! I trust that connecting the timelines will be an amazing reveal. I can't wait to meet Ben in the alternate timeline. Bet you he is a good guy!

Mike V. said...

Oh I definitely think there is significance to the blood or whatever on jacks neck. And thanks for the reminder on the later scene in "flashes before before your eyes" Totally forgot about that!

I agree about flashbacks. We will probably get some before the season is over. I would think a Richard-centric story would require it!

As for time travel. I think they will continue to show us the effects of their time travel antics, but I can see them sticking to 2 time periods for the most part. 2004 and 2007 luntil the storylines potentially merge that is! Lol

Can't wait for the next episode!!

vfxdrummer said...

I forgot to mention, in support of timeline case #1 - I think part of the clue is WHEN the island sunk. We see many of the things on the island from our regular 2007 timeline - which, if true, would support this as the ending timeline of the show.

vfxdrummer said...

by this :

"This should should function to prove that all the characters have a DESTINY, and the universe COURSE CORRECTS to ensure the distiny, no matter what."

I do not mean that the universe will course correct to send them back to island. Rather, the universe will course correct so that they have similiar or opposite interactions off island. In this case, the island is the variable in this timeline, but the other events will be constants. We already saw Jack save Charlie. Maybe Kate will deliver Claire's baby? (in the cab?) Is Claire even pregnant - maybe not in this timeline.

Mike V. said...

Vgc, I've read and mentioned this theory as well. It's an interesting concept!

But what did we see from 2007 timeline under the ocean? I saw dharmaville and the 4 toed statue which were like that in 1977. We also saw the dharma shark which Sawyer killed in season 2's Adrift. (or maybe it was Michael). We also saw lots of algae and stuff on the statue which would indicate it seems to have been like that for a long time!

I am thinking all signs are pointing to the island being submerged is something that happened during dharma times. Either a direct result of jughead or a subsequent result. I think we are meant to start asking how things would be different if certain people were never able to come to the island or stay there. (e.g. Charles widmore, Desmond, the 815ers). And also who was on island when it sank and did they die?

Should be interesting!!

Matt said...

Hey peeps, been a few days since i last wrote anything, had a chance to do a few rewatches, and here's what i have now.

Temple tunnels have a picture of a dog and the smoke monster, There is a picture of a Dog in Jacob/Horace's cabin.

John Locke leaving the island and his death to bring the Oceanic 6 back was in both Jacob and MIB's best interest.

Christian Sheppard in the Well "i cant help you" is that an "i cant physically help you because i cant make contact with you" because i dont think that is the case. Because MIB as LOCKE can pick up Richard. So either that was an "i cant do it because there are rules enforced by Jacob or something similar, or that was in fact Jacob appearing as Christian and him not being able to.

And i imagine this is thrown in by the TEAM DARLTON as a funny moment. But the conversation between Boone and Locke on the plane.
"You're not pulling my leg"
Did Jack and Michael not almost cut his leg off after he was injured in the opening the hatch mission with Locke? lol

davidsalako said...

Probably a minor thing to but everyone else on the alternate Oceanic 815 flight was made to look virtually identical (as much as is possible after 5 years!) to how they looked on the same flight in seasons 1 and 2 flashbacks. Everyone that is EXCEPT Jack and Charlie. I understand Jack's case as we need to notice that things are kind of the same but different however Charlie had a totally different look from his previous look on the show. Perhaps Dominic Monaghan did not have time for all the hair and makeup and stuff due to a busy schedule? I thought this was a stand out.

davidsalako said...

In fact Charlie looked how he did when he appeared to Hurley at the Santa Rosa institution and slapped him.

Matt said...

Junse watched a few snippets on the abc website from Tuesday's episode, well at least i think from Tuesday's episode. There is a fair amount of Sayid talking, and from what i hear, it sounds exactly the same as he has done for the past 5 seasons, so perhaps it was just a slip up with his british accent, i mean Charlie is british in the show, so makes sense that the link is drawn. But also from the puzzled reaction from Sayid, i dont think he is possesed by Jacob, but the Charlie thing could still be true, although i cant quite work out why they would do that.

Matt said...

Still trying to work out how i got Junse from Just :S

vfxdrummer said...

hmmm ... dog and smoke monster.

So Jacob took the form of Vincent, at one point? Did we have any scenes with Vincent and the smoke monster? We had some with Vincent and Locke, right? Am I way off?

EJ said...

Damon Lindelhof quoted in Entertainment Weekly magazine, Feb12/19 double issue: "... your sense of who's good and who's bad might change a bit over the course of the season. We might not tell you what the numbers mean, but we have every intention of telling you whether or not humanity is essentially good or evil."

Yet, on Jimmy Kimmel after the Season Premiere he said we would see a lot about the numbers in the next few weeks. (YEAH!)

So, . . . . . herrings everywhere!!!

BTW, I only have that magazine as the subscription was a way to burn frequent flyer points on an airline I will never fly again (not Oceanic -- lol).

Thanks for the thoughts on Sayid's remorse, Mike. Perhaps this has implications for his opportunity to redeem himself after all? Sayid is the one who says to Jack (in TV previews), "This is your chance to redeem yourselves." I lean toward the spring being out of whack and Sayid now being inhabited by Jacob, but .....

Ian said...

Interesting idea about Vincent being a key to this somehow. Remember the mobisode where Christian tells Vincent he has work to do, then they show the shot of Vincent running past Jack from the opening scene of the pilot? Also remember in the pilot when Jack, Kate and Charlie go off together to find the front end of the plane, and they pass by Vincent, who's just staring at them? Could he have been scanning them like the SM often does?

Of course, one of the SM's names is "Cerberus," which in mythology was a ferocious dog that guarded the underworld. That could also explain the hieroglyphics.

vfxdrummer said...

Well - Vincent *is* blond like Jacob. Just sayin'...

I've been thinking some more - and I think our two timelines *may* fuse together. What if the Sayid reincarnation is a conciousness time-travel from the other timeline?

i.e. present Sayid died, but Sayid from the other timeline takes his body.

We saw Juliet (possibly) jumping to the other timeline as she died.

Could the other timeline be an alternate 2004 - will some / all of the characters conciousness travel back to their other identities on the island by 2007? This would reinforce the 'course correcting' theme, after all. Along the way, I still think that we will see them have all the same (or opposite / related but different) interactions in the alternate reality before joining the other timeline.

Or, our alternate timeline is the end of the show... either way, I'm sticking to the 'course correcting' concept.

carolinski said...

Hey all,
There has been a lot of talking about the universe having its way of 'course correcting' itself.
Now, what if the alternate timeline where they don't crash on the island is in fact the "course correcting"? Maybe they weren't meant at all to crash on the island ...
It's just a thought I had, not shure if I even believe it.

Mike V. said...

Hey guys...wow you all had lots to say in the middle of the night and during the Super Bowl! lol (must be our internationals! :-))

I am not going to respond to it all. I'll say I'm still saying reserved on anything Time Travel related. I do like drawing the similarities between Desmond's flashes and with the Flash-Sideways...except noting the difference between one being time travel related and the other being something else. Yes, course correction may be at play but I thought the whole point of Faraday's Jughead theory was that if you did something big enough it NEGATES Course Correction. If anything happens with our LOSTIES still working together to achieve things in the Sideways world, I would look at it more as a DESTINY thing...which has been a theme since season 1. We'll see!

Vincent = Jacob??? LOL Sorry, can't buy into that one! Oh, and the mobi-sode...Christian tells Vincent to "find his son" because "HE" has work to do. He being Jack, not Vincent! The producers have promised us that Vincent will survive to the end of the series. Sometimes, I think a dog is just a dog! lol

I agree though, from the clip I put earlier in these comments...Sayid seems to be acting like..well..."a confused Sayid"...it seems like Damon and others in the cast are turning down theories that Jacob=Sayid....but Damon did say on Kimmel..."well something is inhabiting Sayid" (when Jimmy asked if Jacob was inhabiting Sayid) So we'll see!

As for the 2 articles references on the numbers...i don't think there are red herrings there. They're out of context of the 2 articles. The one article talks about how they will provide more information on things but CONCRETE ANSWERS like "what is the island" or "WHAT ARE THE NUMBERS" are really tough things to answer without getting all "midi-chlorian" and over-explaining things like Star Wars Episode I explained the FORCE (we rather would have kept it a magical thing than organisms in Jedi's bloodstream!)

But then the other article is saying that we do have MORE on the numbers coming up. So we may learn the significance of the numbers in the life of the LOSTIES but why the numbers cause bad luck? No such luck I don't think.

That probably didn't make sense...but the point is...the producers are trying to warn people that they may not get the answers they are looking for in season 6. But they are going to provide concrete information and answer what THEY feel is significant. We'll see what happens! I trust them!

Anonymous said...

Hey Mike, great blog it really helps to collect thoughts.

I am seriously late to this party! Having waited 9 months for this series to come around my Sky + screwed up on Friday night (I'm in the UK)so couldn't watch until Sunday. Great posts guys (my wife is so sick of hearing my Lost theories it helps to read through yours!!).

I am still going with the religious aspects of MIB and Jacob. Last season where MIB teases Ben saying all his life Ben has "followed his rules" and "done his bidding". MIB also says that even after Ben has done all of this Jacob still let his daughter die etc so why wouldn't Ben want to kill him. Then under the foot Ben asks Jacob why he couldn't speak to him just once in all that time... this strikes me as a dig at organised religion, following rules with no proof etc.

They have continued that theme in this episode when Jacob tells Hurley "I was killed by an old friend who grew tired of my company". Many people believe God will die if belief in Him disappears totally.

Not sure where I am going with this but it seems that the general themes of faith vs logic/science are becoming more focused.

For some reason a quote from my favourite film jumped into my head while watching yesterday "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the World He didn't exist". I still can't work out who is good or evil though!!

Matt

Mike V. said...

Thanks Matt! Glad you finally got to see the episode, but that really stinks you couldn't watch on Friday. I know I would have been super annoyed if I had ABC problems last Tuesday (or any of the next 14 tuesdays plus the final Sunday!)

Nice thoughts with the religious tie-ins. I think the themes around religion are exactly that - THEMES. I don't know if LOST is going to attempt to uncover the existence of God and/or the Devil in these final episodes. Part of the fun of the show is the debate between science and faith....which leads me to think that when the show ends...they will leave that debate still up for interpretation!

But I could be totally wrong! New episode tomorrow! Can't wait!

Mike V. said...

Nice slideshow on EW of 10 burning LOST questions. Nothing really we haven't discussed before, but a good recap with comments from Doc Jensen and Exec Producers Damon and Carlton:

http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20313460_20341828,00.html

horsmean said...

Great recap Mike and awesome dialogue in the comments. Finally able to catch up and post a few thoughts. Did not see any references to the following:

LA X => I think our Losties are involved in a game / struggle between MIB and Jacob and the X signifies that this is the tenth time the Losties have been through this loop. I think they failed the test again, whatever the test or game is, and need to try again. That line of thinking would tie into the conversation between MIB and Jacob in the Season 5 finale, about it only ending once and everything else is just progress. It would also tie into Darlton's "they're selfish" comments.

Did anyone else notice, when Flocke was speaking with Ben about Locke's pathetic life, that he kept moving into and out of the light / darkness? I doubt this was accidental as the TPTB carefully shoot every scene. But what does it mean? Does it mean that Flocke is both light and dark (good and bad)? Or does such a description depend on your point of view? Both? Something else entirely?

Richard getting smacked down by Flocke. Was this genuine? Or a ruse? Maybe Richard is actually on MIB's side and the "beating" was part of the con, to not let the Others know of the plan. Or, did Richard betray MIB at some point in the past, causing MIB to get imprisoned? Why would Flocke (MIB) say he was disappointed in all of them? Were all the Others at one time ruled by MIB?

vfxdrummer said...

"LA X => I think our Losties are involved in a game / struggle between MIB and Jacob and the X signifies that this is the tenth time the Losties have been through this loop. I think they failed the test again, whatever the test or game is, and need to try again. That line of thinking would tie into the conversation between MIB and Jacob in the Season 5 finale, about it only ending once and everything else is just progress. It would also tie into Darlton's "they're selfish" comments."

I definitely buy this theory. Have you seen 'Primer'? Sounds an awful lot like the 'Primer' concept.

Good stuff!

Mike V. said...

Thanks Horseman, and definitely interesting theory! the first time i watched the S5 finale and heard that Jacob/MIB conversation I was thinking of some kind of LOOP where the same events keep happening. I think I mentioned it again in this blog...and of course...start thinking it's very much like Matrix 2 and 3 (awful movies!). But they did reinforce the "always ends the same"/"only ends once/progress" stuff by showing it in the PREVIOUSLY ON LOST... And of course, it would certifiably answer why there are 2 timelines right now pretty easily. And also possibly all of the flashes of Charlie that Desmond had in season 3. You may be on to something, but I think I need a few more details hammered out before I subscribe to it! LOL

btw...things I heard/read on podcasts/other blogs:

Desmond in Flash-Sideways - wearing a wedding ring. hmmmmmm

Underwater Island in Flash-Sideways...could THIS somehow explain how the black rock ends up in the middle of the island? We know the island moves through space and time...perhaps it moves "FLASH SIDEWAYS" too? lol That would be wayyyy too confusing. But it's thinking outside the box!

I'm ready for a new hour of LOST to dissect!!

Mike V. said...

New DOC Jensen!

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20342468,00.html

Mike V. said...

Ugh...here we go:

New Doc Jensen!

Mike V. said...

Also TOTALLY LOST video with Jensen and Snierson:



Totally LOST!

Mike V. said...

good point on TOTALLY LOST....Sayid said the same thing as young ben did after coming out of the Fountain/Spring...."WHAT HAPPENED" hmmmmmm

I do like this concept of the Sideways world being the END-STATE of the LOSTIES and what they have been working towards for 6 seasons of LOST. Not sure how it all works out...but I do like the concept! lol

horseman said...

Thanks Mike! Great stuff. I was thinking that if selfishness is bad then selflessness must be good. What does that mean? Perhaps the loop gets broken and "the game ends" when all the Losties make a personal sacrifice. I'm thinking that might mean they all need to die in one of the timelines that we see. When that happens, perhaps they continue on their normal timeline in their normal lives, maybe the show ends. I don't know. Maybe in the end they kill themselves by destroying the island for some "good" reason and they continue on the flight that we saw in the season 6 premiere. That certainly gives the "Looks like we made it." "Yeah. We sure did." conversation a lot more meat and that entire concept fits nicely into the "redemption" theme running through the show.

MJ said...

Trying to catch up to all the comments - but so maney ! LOL

On Kimmel I thought Cuse's reaction to Jacob being re-born into Sayid was interesting. He did not confirm or deny but was very coy about it us thinking that. So now I'm thinking it is not the case

Mike V. said...

MJ, I agree...at first I thought it sounded interesting to go that way, but the more I thought about it I didn't like it. Damon, Carlton and Jorge Garcia all on different occassions seem to have denied the Jacob/Sayid linking in so many words.

When Kimmel asked...Damon said "well...Sayid is inhabited by SOMETHING".... Maybe Jensen and Snierson are onto something by saying whatever happened to Sayid will be similar of what happened to young Ben when being put in the fountain. "innocence being taken away"....and he might perhaps forget what has happened in his recent memory. Of course...this doesn't explain the dirty water....japanese guy cutting his hand in putting it in the water seemingly checking to see if it would heal...oh and sayid waking up like an hour or so later and Lennon being shocked by it! LOL

Can't wait for tonight!!

Mr. Fitz said...

Read my greatest fears about season six.

http://theymovedthegoalposts.blogspot.com

pharmer said...

Whenever I read of the dog comments I go back to Locke's story in season 1 about his sister having a cancer (I think) and a stray dog (retriever, not lab like Vincent)wandering in and providing comfort.....I posted something a few seasons ago about it possibly being a time-traveling Vincent and maybe the writers screwed up the breed. But, maybe it was Jacob visitting Locke earlier???
Another scene that I keep thinking about was something about a 20 year old woman with a 40 year old uterus. I think it was Richard talking to Juliette, but it might have been Juliette talking to Jack. The statement came out seasons before time travel was brought up, so I always meant to post something questioning it.

vfxdrummer said...

Yeah - as ridiculous as it sounds, the fact that the hieroglyphics of the dog and smoke monster are featured means that there's gotta be more too it (or their messing with us).

I'm sticking with the theory that Jacob can shape shift as a dog, and took Vincent's body in season 1.

davidsalako said...

Hurley also made a joke talking to Sayid in season 1 or 2 listening to a radio that was picking up radio signals bouncing off the atmosphere that sounded like 1950s music. Hurley indicated that the signals may be coming from "another time" in a serious away and then burst out laughing that he was only kidding.
******************
IDK if this is worth noting but some of the "Others" like Mikhail and Mr. Friendly seemed to refer to our LOSTIES as if they had known them pretty well in another time and place. It wasn't just the intelligence files that Mikhail assembled but really personal stuff as well.
******************
Don't know if this is important either but several characters on the show seem to have abilities that taken all together add up to the abilities Jacob and Flocke seem to have. E.g. Miles knowing "the last thoughts of dying folk", so does MIB in his creepy recall of John Locke. Walt's pre-cognitive abilities and clearly Jacob's. Walt's seeming ability to "manifest" living creatures and MIB'S and Jacob's the same. Richard Alpert's seemingly eternal "same agedness" and Jacob's as well. The polyglot skills of several characters, Jacob to. Etc.

vfxdrummer said...

The whole is a sum of the parts.

A bit of Jacob lives in every one.

Mike V. said...

Hey, we're all entitled to our theories....but I think the significance of Anubis and Smokey that it was ANUBIS (not vincent) and Smokey. But we'll see how it pans out! As for Jacob being able to "shape shift" or take the appearance of animals...i won't rule that out...because i do want to know what was up with the Black Horse showing up to Kate! (the boar to sawyer...i could take it or leave it)

The uterus thing....yeah that was Richard and Juliet...I think that just goes into the overall mystery of why pregnant women started dying on the island. We still don't have an answer to that one. I don't think we'll get a direct answer to the uterus thing...except that...that was probably one of the pregnant women on the island.

dave- other people have noted too about Mikhail knowing more about Sayid....I don't recall Tom ever acting like he had more info. I really think it's all in their research. How they got all of that information? Don't know...don't know if we will know....but based on Ben's surplus of finances..and Widmore's also...it seems that the OTHERS were never lacking in the ability to pay for this info.

and yes.. all except WALT...it seems like these "special powers" have come from being in contact with the island....or maybe (as vfx said) it does boil down to Jacob. Did Jacob heal Sarah's spine? Or did he, by touching Jack, give Jack the gifts to heal Sarah? Did Jacob ever meet Walt and give him his crazy powers? I sure would love to know! Even if we don't ever see walt again (which i still think they should find a way to make that work)....we need to know why the others "got more than they bargained for" with him.

it's gonna be one crazy wacky awesome season and it continues in 3 hours and 11 minutes!

Anonymous said...

Questions...Why was Desmond wearing a wedding ring? Why was Sayid's passport actually Iranian and why was Sun called Ms. Paig...as if her and Jin were not married?

Grimm said...

I just wanted to say something here - even though it probably should go on this weeks post.

I do NOT think that Christian is the Smoke Monster.

The reason? Remember when Sun and the pilot first got to the old run down Dharmaville and Christian was there? I am not sure if it was covered here, but there was a scene it which Christian was seen and the Smoke monster was coming in the door (or leaving) at the same time.

Now I just wish I could find that screen shot.

Here is a vid of my theory...
http://www.youtube.com/watch#videos=9UL0hqVRyIU&v=dJitGXMzroc

Mike V. said...

Grimm...i've seen the screen shot...and i think that would further prove that it WAS the smoke monster lol

But i'm inclined to agree with you based on what we learned in the latest episode about Fake Locke/MIB. I won't discuss it here in case you haven't seen it yet. But check out my latest recap!

LostFamily said...

Wow*infinity! Crazy LOST! Love the recap Mike as always. We watched this episode (double episode I guess) on Day One when we got the DVD and now we're trying to ration our viewing to once/week (don't think it will happen) just to prolong it! Love all the theories floating around. Can't wait to see what's next!

Mike V. said...

Welcome to Season 6 LOST Family! It's been quite a ride for you guys! Good luck prolonging your visit to the LOST world. I am already an episode ahead of you on my rewatch but I don't know when I'll be getting back to it. Look forward to hearing your comments along the way as always!

Miles Balzard said...

Well, that was an insane season premiere! Even though I thought they might go this way, at first it felt uncomfortable going this way! But by the end of the second hour, I was already (once again) trusting the writers to make it compelling.

I don't think they're showing what might've happened if the H-bomb plan worked just to demonstrate how interconnected the characters' lives are. Somehow, some way, they're going to make this alternate timeline meaningful instead of just a bunch of fantasy stories. It will either merge with the old timeline (as Mike suggested) or pieces of it will become a part of reality for certain characters (like the ones who are living in the new primary timeline). Not sure how they will pull this off, but that's why it's compelling!

Watching the alternate timeline (the No Crash Zone, as Mike adeptly put it) made me think that Jack seems to be getting the most benefit from eliminating the past three years than anyone else. Except maybe for Hurley, who seems to have all good luck now! And maybe Sayid, who still has a shot at a life with Nadia.

It seems like Claire has only become more beautiful in the years since Lost first aired. Given what I know now, I'll be rooting for her a little bit more this time around than the first time (not that I didn't root for her before, but she could be so whiny).

Oh, Jin and Sun: I'm so sad to see things back the way they were. More than anyone, I am rooting for you to recapture the extraordinary romance you found on the island. Desmond and Penny: the People's choice for best love story. Jin and Sun: my choice for best love story! Desmond and Penny are a very, very close second. And Sawyer and Juliet aren't all that far behind anymore, presuming they find a way to resurrect her. And Rose and Bernard get a very honorable mention.

On the Island: Wow, we find out that quasi-Locke is not only the Man in Black taking form as Locke, but he's also the Smoke Monster! Or I guess I should reverse that context: The Man in Black is not only quasi-Locke but he's also the Smoke Monster! But unlike the real Locke, he wants to go home. I thought he was already home! Is home actually Hell or Heaven? Or is it a more conventional real-world home? Wouldn't a real-world home be something in the 15th century or something? Talk about a culture shock! I bet Heaven ain't what it used to be either!

We begin to see the show leading up to a flashback for Richard when the MiB tells him "Nice to see you out of those chains." Richard's backstory is certainly inevitable and I'm dying to see it.

Mike, I see in your post you still think Jughead blew up. I'm NOT saying that isn't true, but a real H-bomb vaporizes material surrounding it, is instantly lethal for miles around and leaves an irradiated environment that can't sustain life for a long time. Not that Lost has to follow these facts, but I think the bomb never exploded. Maybe Kate and Miles' temporary hearing loss came from Desmond's exploding of the Swan hatch in 2004, and Juliet just ended up at the bottom of that rubble, the same location as she was when the time flashed.

Haha, I made all those suppositions without really studying the episode. And in the comments, you mentioned the H-bomb would probably flatten the island, so you obviously know how powerful it is. And does it really matter if it exploded or not? Whatever happened, happened, and we are left with these dual timelines.

And even though, like so many season premieres, Lost gets off to a relatively tame beginning, I'm starting to relish what they might do with these timelines and how they will pull them together or have them turn into one reality. We KNOW they can't sustain both of these timelines together through the series finale, but as I said I think they will make BOTH of them utterly essential to our final destination. Good times!

Mike V. said...

Miles, obviously I can't comment TOO much on the Flash Sideways vs. Original Timeline. But from a logistical standpoint let me tell you why I enjoyed the approach (which I may already have in the recap).

I'm all about final seasons of series bringing a show full circle. We should revisit key moments and settings from the series in one last victory lap. I love the flash sideways because it sort of reminds us where these characters were when we started the show. And on the island, you'll see our losties going across the island to settings that we have seen over the 6 year journey of the show. From that perspective, they tie everything together very nicely.

As for what it all means, well I'll let you try and piece that one together. I got PRETTY CLOSE in the comments of one of the posts. But, I don't want to tip my hand any further than that! lol

As for the H-Bomb detonating. Maybe it didn't, maybe it did. But, we do know what happened AFTER the incident. The poured concrete over the area, and built the swan hatch and had to keep the electromagnetic activity at bay every 108 minutes. There was also a quarantine sign on the hatch door as DHARMA folks thought the outside was possibly contaminated. Well, maybe not as DHARMA continued on throughout the rest of the island with their experiments...and they were eventually killed off in the purge all POST incident. But maybe immediately after THE INCIDENT, they didn't want to take any chances. I guess I was thinking that maybe somehow the powers of the island (electromagnetic in nature) somehow suppressed the nuke from flattening the island. I don't know if that's scientifically possible...but the powers of the island, while scientific in nature, are technically not possible either! LOL

Okay, off to the next comments!

Mike V. said...

Yeah...they really pulled a big one on us with Locke being the Man in Black being Smokey. That is one of the big reasons that season 5 is so rewatchable. It's like a brand new show when you watch it again. Lines like Ben saying to MIB "well this is quite the out of body experience for you"...and he says "something like that"....classic! lol You mentioned that you didn't like Locke seeing himself. But he really wasn't! lol So Dead is truly Dead and Locke died a very sad sad death. At the time, we were like "it's okay, he's still alive on the island!" But nope, he wasn't. That was the end of Locke. But, his end signaled Jack's new beginning. So maybe Locke is redeemed by the end. We'll see!

aly said...

OK, what, wow… WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON??

What a great episode! But I thought there was only ONE TIMELINE ever, that what happened happened and you can’t change that! So why is there this weird reality with the island underwater close to L.A. and the plane landing? But then clearly the Losties are still on the island and flashed forward (are they?) to the present? What what what?
Is it a flash forward? Is it somehow gonna tie to the season finale where they somehow managed to manipulate the past and that is what happens when they do? Is it a flash back and they did end up on the island somehow and still replay the events and season six about how the universe course corrected to bring them back to where they are? I just can’t buy that it’s an alternate reality after I was so certain they wouldn’t do that. They’ve managed to abide by the “no ghosts” so how can they break the “no alternate reality”? No, this has got to somehow tie in to the one timeline. Maybe it’s a “flash forward” that plays out after the Losties changed the past/time (maybe they haven’t done so yet) so we see them living their lives as if the plane never crashed, and in this season they will intersperse these little snippet scenes in until the last episode ties it all together Memento style. So then in that case it’s not really a “flash forward” if time/events/the crash gets reset, but you know what I mean. That’s my guess anyway!

The comments are getting insane! I am still working my way through the comments on The Variable at the moment. They’ve gotten so out of control. I will eventually catch up though.

Jacob appearing to Hurley and telling him to bring Sayid to THE TEMPLE. Is that actually Jacob? How do we know it’s not Smokey manipulating Hurley now? That bringing Sayid was not the thing to do, and now Smokey is taking over Sayid’s form IN THE TEMPLE so the ash won’t even keep him out. Maybe that’s why Japanese man & John Lennon freaked out at the end, when they realized Jacob is dead. Maybe they knew that Smokey can take the form of the dead. Maybe Smokey took the form of Jacob and manipulated Hurley. Nooo!

Juliet’s “IT WORKED” – my first thought was they flashed in time and perhaps her consciousness kept flashing, the way Desmond’s did in The Constant. Perhaps her consciousness flashed “forward” to that time where the plane didn’t crash, so she knew that they would somehow reset everything and she would be fine. That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it for now!

I still can’t believe this episode, it was so crazy, I loved it! I think I mentioned in my last comment how this past Breaking Bad episode was perhaps the best of any I’ve ever seen on TV (sorry, I know you love The Constant, Mike!) so I am very pleased that this Lost ep was so good too. :)

Take care, Mike, I’ll be speaking to you very soon again! It’s pretty awesome that you got on your local TV. Hope married life is treating you well. How you managed to plan a wedding while blogging this and maintaining a full-time job, I’ll never know. ;)

Mike V. said...

Hi Aly, I know you commented on the S5 finale too but I'll just catch up with you here! Things have been swamped.

Well surely you know that I also watched last week's Breaking Bad. I agree it was one of the best hours of television ever. But, I still think The Constant comes up in the conversation! :-) Plus, how many times are you going to rewatch that Breaking Bad episode? It's pretty grueling and pain inducing. Not many want to spend their hours feeling like that. Where The Constant is just amazing and awe inspiring! Every time I watch it, I am a bawling mess by the end. Perfect episode of TV. But yeah...Breaking Bad has been on an amazing final run here. (and entire series...one of the best shows ever on television, even if LOST is my favorite. lol)

As for what's going on in this final season...I don't want to spoil it for you! But, they definitely want you to consider all possibilities. It'll all make sense in the end whether you like the result or not. You'll see how I felt about it in my recaps and everything I've written since!

As for no ghosts...I forget if I was still going on about that in season 6, but you have to assume that ghosts on this show are real by now. And you'll get your answers on who Man in Black/Smokey can/will appear as for the rest of the series. But, I'd assume that this was Jacob!

Married life is great, we have a 21 month old son now and are having a blast! Planning a wedding and recapping season 5??? Yeah, that was pretty intense. Let's just say I just gave up sleep to be able to do it all. :-) But it was still fun!!

I actually wasn't on MY local TV. I live in the Philly area and Tampa local news found me on the internet. LOL Good times. It was awkward and tough to come up with theories on the spot, but in hindsight...I didn't do too badly! But you'll have to see how accurate I was after you finish the show. :-) Enjoy!

aly said...

WOW congrats on the not-so-baby you two! What a happy family. :)

It is still pretty awesome, regardless of whether or not your theories were close, that you and this blog gained some TV fame during its run! I read in another comment you made to LOSTFAMILY that you are doing multiple TV blogs now! I am looking forward to those then, as Lost wraps up.

You're right that Breaking Bad was REALLY INTENSE and maybe not so rewatchable, but then again I am used to/enjoy feeling those during a show, so I may more more likely to watch it again than some others. What I can't stand watching is when I know some info the character doesn't, so I am screaming at them through the TV & it freaks me out because they don't know what I know. Maybe that's why Lost is so enjoyable for me, I find out bits of info at the same time the characters do. I'd much rather be like "WTF IS GOING ON" than "OMG NO JUST DO THAT YOU IDIOT." Anyway!

I'm still freaked out by the non-crash reality on Lost. Can't wait to see the next episode! Still working my way through all these comments, haha. It makes for an easier train commute home. :)

Mike V. said...

Thanks for the belated congrats Aly! lol

Yeah...the LOST days were a pretty crazy time! I have covered several shows since LOST but nothing has ever been intense. But, LOST was a one of a kind moment in time where the universe wanted to talk about it and the blog became a great outlet for that. Lots of fun and VERY time consuming! lol The leftover people that still like to discuss any and all TV have communed at my newer site TV Addicts Blog (www.tvaddictsblog.com). I've recapped Fringe, The Event, Revolution, The Walking Dead and some miscellaneous stuff. But, we talk about so many more shows in our weekly discussion posts (and in the summer, monthly or multi-monthly lol) Breaking Bad, Justified, Sons of Anarchy, Game of Thrones, Homeland, Dexter, you name it...we're probably watching it! (at least one of us) It's a fun time, and definitely feel free to stop by! Maybe safer when you finish LOST just in case you stumble upon a spoiler here or there. :-) lol

Yeah...I'm definitely planning to rewatch Breaking Bad one of these days just to watch the devolution of Walter White in a quicker pace (just like the show actually will have happened over 2 years not 6) But, if I'm going on a desert island and only can bring one episode of one show with me to watch over and over again. I think The Constant wins for me. :-)

Good point on LOST with people finding out as we find out. Of course, that wasn't always true. There were the flash forwards after all! But for the most part, yes!