Wednesday, April 07, 2010

LOST: Season 6 Episode 11 - Happily Ever After

Hello LOSTIES!!!  WOW....just WOW!!!  I still don't understand how people can be hating this season.  That episode just blew me away again.  Granted, it was the long awaited Desmond episode, and his episodes are always thought provokingly awesome!  Maybe people are going to start coming around on the sideways story now that we see it is going somewhere.  In fact, we spent a majority of the episode there.  But the difference is, it was initiated from the ISLAND timeline.  And there seems to be a LOT more going on there than originally had met the eye.  Did we get the answer to the Flash Sideways?  No, of course not.  But we got a lot more to chew on.  And as Damon Lindelof, Co-Creator/Executive producer tweeted last week "In one week, the conversations will change," I think he was absolutely correct!

Happily Ever After - an expression that we never thought we would associate with LOST until this season.     But with a lot of the Flash Sideways scenarios in the first half of this final season, we saw all of our LOSTIES seemingly living better lives than they had previously.  And it would certainly seem like this is something that Widmore is striving for with his Island mission.  There really is only one storyline to follow in this one.  We join Desmond on the Island where he is just coming around on the fact that he has been returned to the Island.  And then, the experimentations begin.  Desmond's consciousness was sent to the sideways world. Based on Island Desmond's behavior when he "woke up" it was almost like he experienced and saw everything that happened even though the sideways version of him was still slowly coming to the realization.  Lots of character crosses in the Sideways world and some very interesting reveals.  We'll get to all of it below.  I have a feeling there will be some energetic discussions this week.  Let's get to it!      

Hydra Island
Infirmary

Prior to last week's cliffhanger, the last time we saw Desmond was in the hospital after getting shot by Benjamin Linus.  We also saw Charles and Eloise have a conversation outside that very hospital.  Charles claimed that Daniel Faraday was also his son which led to us speculating that Charles and Eloise had fathered a child once too.  I'm getting ahead of myself.  We now rejoin Desmond on the Island, whom Charles Widmore has referred to as "THE PACKAGE".   Let's see what goes down.
  • Desmond wakes up in the infirmary on the Island still unaware of his surroundings.  Zoe tells him that he's been unconscious for 3 days.  Hmm, not sure if this fact is important.  Probably not, but are they suggesting that it's only been 3 days since the Ajira flight crashed on the Island?  There is absolutely no way, right?  But Ben definitely shot Desmond on the day that he, Jack and crew left for the Island.  And Widmore goes into a whole explanation of Desmond getting shot and asking if he remembers (which he does).  So, it might be me nitpicking, but I was just curious to if Desmond ever woke up in the hospital prior to Widmore and his crew sedating him and getting him on a sub.  It may have been a 3 day journey to the Island for all we know.  
  • Des is clearly disoriented and doesn't know why Widmore is there.   All he wants to do is see Penny.  Charles explains to Desmond that both Penny and his son Charlie are safe.  But, as for Desmond, he apologizes for taking him back to the Island.  Charles is extremely apologetic and knows how Desmond must be feeling.  Oh, but it doesn't matter.  Just as we expected, he is not one happy camper to be back there!  He went to town on Charles and beat the living daylights out of him and giving him a nice gash on the head in the process.  Desmond was restrained by some Widmore goons.


  • Charles tells Desmond the same thing Eloise told him at the Lamp Post.  "The Island isn't done with you yet!"
  • Meanwhile, Jin wants answers from Widmore on why Desmond is here.  Widmore claims it will be easier to show him.  Then orders them to take Desmond to the "generator" room.  Apparently, Zoe is not thrilled with the change in schedule.  Probably because the machine is not ready.  But it is interesting that they have an entire schedule of events to happen.  This is the 2nd reference to the "schedule" that has been made.  Wouldn't anyone else like to sneak a peak at the last page of it? 
The Generator Room

We follow Jin and Zoe to this generator room.  A room that we have never seen before.  There is also a chamber located outside of this big room with huge cables attached.  It seems as though some of this stuff has been around since DHARMA times, but I'm not sure if maybe Widmore's crew brought more stuff with them in the sub?  Hmmm, pylons and an Electro Magnetic Generator?  Not so sure about that.

  • So Mr. Intimidator turns out to be a scientist as well.  Thank God!  He didn't really fit the bill for a GOON!   So apparently, they need to get this Electro-Magnetic field ready for Desmond pronto, but they don't want to kill him in the process, so they're going to test it on Captain Solo first Oops, I mean, a Bunny named Ångström.  Now, we all know how the DHARMA Initiative loved their White Rabbits.  And this one is certainly ironic because Desmond is about to travel down yet another Rabbit hole.  But, the naming of this one seems to be named after Andres Jonas Ångström who was very interested in terrestrial magnetism.  He even proved that the Sun contained HYDROGEN!  (hmmm, magnetism, hydrogen.  where have I heard these words before? Ahhh yes, the Swan Site!)   


  • The first test of generating the magnetic field didn't work.  There was a bad breaker on the generator.  Then a guy went into the chamber to check on it.  And that didn't go so well!  Because they started up the generator again before he cleared out (by accident of course).  This was all to show us how a normal person could not survive exposure to intense amounts of electro-magnetism.  It did the job pretty well! 







  • Naturally, Charles thinks this means that they're ready to try the machine on Desmond!  Desmond wasn't going in willfully.  They had to beat him and drag him into a chair and strap him down.  
  • Charles apologizes for forcing this upon him but is hoping that when it's over that Desmond will agree to make a sacrifice.  What kind of sacrifice you ask?  Oh, I have no idea.  But the scariest projection would be that he would have to die!  
  • Desmond naturally asks Charles what he knows about sacrifice.   Charles says his son died on the island (just like that, we get confirmation that Daniel was indeed Charles's son), his daughter hates him and he has never met his grandchild.   He says that if Desmond doesn't help him it will all be for nothing.  Penny, Charlie, everyone will be gone.  Again, he refers to the Man in Black leaving the island causing everyone to cease to exist.  Now, I'm all confused.  Is Charles Widmore trying to get all of these LOSTIES' consciousness "TO" the Sideways world including his own?  It certainly doesn't seem like he's trying to stop it from happening now.  I'm sure I'll be asking more questions like this as we delve further into the show.  And I'm sure I'll contradict myself 42 times, so be prepared!
  • We should note that Desmond was asked if he had any metal on him.  Charles accused the people of being idiots when they asked him suggesting that of course he doesn't.  I guess metal exposed to the electromagnetic field wouldn't be too bright!      
  • Charles also says that he was "told" about Desmond surviving a catastrophic electromagnetic event.  And he is the only man that he knows that has ever done so.  I guess Widmore did his research, but how would he know that?  Maybe Jacob told him?  Charles needs to know that he can do it again or they all die.  Why?  I have no idea, but it certainly seems Sideways related! 
  • All systems are go, Desmond is in the chamber by himself.  Mr. Intimidator is scared to pull the lever to "full power" so Widmore does it himself.  Yikes

  • The generator starts, Desmond breaks free from the chair but is locked in.  It starts getting really bright and powerful and Desmond steps into the Quantum Leap Accelerator and VANISHED.   (just kidding, but come on, I had to make the reference right?!)   No, apparently, Desmond was only unconscious for seconds in Island Time, but he was taken to Sideways Time for a majority of the episode! 












Flash Sideways - Desmond
LA X

  • Right off the bat, we see an Oceanic Arrival Information board, and Desmond staring at his reflection.  COINCIDENCE?  Naaa, can't be right?  We should note that we see both Guam and Sydney on the board.  Both locations involved in flights that end up on the Island.   And of course, lots of NUMBERS stuff going on with Flight 815 landing at 10:42am at Gate 8 (and I believe it departed Sydney from Gate 23)  Hurley walks by and tells Desmond that the bags are at baggage carousel 4.  Hurley recognized him from the Sydney flight.   That was very nice of good ol' Hugo wasn't it?



  • So, I guess we should point out the obvious:  Desmond didn't VANISH from flight 815.  Why he disappeared, I have no idea.  There was lots of speculation that Desmond could be going back and forth through the sideways reality (well, based on what we see at the end, maybe so).  But it doesn't look like his body would just vanish.  Something tells me we won't ever find out where he went.  But that's okay!  Maybe he just went back to his seat. 
  • Did Desmond seem disoriented when he was staring into the reflection?   It seemed to take Hurley to snap him out of it.  Here's a crazy thought.  Maybe each time we see one of the LOSTIES look at their reflection, this is the initial point where they were given a glimpse of their sideways life?  Not TOO much of a stretch right?   We'll see!
  • So at baggage claim, Desmond runs into Claire.  He helps the pregnant Aussie get her luggage.  What a nice guy!   Desmond asks Claire if she's carrying a boy or a girl.  He says she's brave for not knowing and he's not a big fan of surprises.  As we learned before, her ride never shows up (the potential adoptive parents).  She'll end up getting stuck in a car with Kate.  But we learn here that Desmond offered her a ride first.  


(just nice to see Non-Crazy Claire for a sec, right?)
  • While she does reject, Desmond does predict that she's having a boy.  Was it just a gut feeling, or did he somehow remember from the Island timeline?  Probably could be interpreted either way.  But we gotta love how Desmond is seeing everyone in another life, right brotha?? 
  • Next up: George Minkowski from the freighter!  He is Desmond's driver!  As we saw in easily one of the top 2 best LOST episodes "THE CONSTANT" Desmond and George both shared the fact that they both experienced consciousness time travel.  Of course, Desmond found his CONSTANT in Penny where Minkowski did not and died.  But here, he is alive and well! 
  • We find out that Desmond was closing a deal for his boss in Sydney.  George offers his services to Desmond.  Anything he needs, he can get it for him.  Good eats, even good "company."  Oh my.  I guess the whole point of this was to let us know that Desmond wasn't married nor was he with Penny in this timeline (yet).  Of course, it may also have something to do with the fact that we DID see Desmond with a wedding ring on in the season premiere LA X.  When he was sitting next to Jack on the plane, I am pretty sure he was wearing a ring!  What on earth does that mean?  Damon Lindelof retweeted someone asking about the same thing.  That person's suggestion is "Bleed through of the 2 universes??"   Did Damon retweet that for a reason?  That, my friends, is very confusing!   In case you think I'm going crazy, here's a picture of Desmond's ring on the plane.

  • George gets in the driver's seat and takes Desmond to the office.  So, it doesn't take us long to find out Desmond's employer in this Sideways Land.
Widmore Industries
  • That's right!  Charles Widmore and Desmond are FRIENDS!  And Desmond works for the man he despises the most! 



  • So this brings up a lot of things we were pondering.  Such as, was Widmore even alive in this timeline?  If he had previously been to the Island, would he have died when the Island was submerged?  Well, he certainly is alive and we have no idea if he was on the Island before.  But based on information from Eloise later, we'll have to revisit.  And we'll have to revisit Jughead when we get to Daniel.  Yikes, this episode's crossovers was nuts.  But, for now, we have to digest that Charles respects Desmond.  
  • Before we get into the craziest, most ironic part let's talk about the scenery in the office.  There is still a sailboat just like in his UK office (Island timeline).  Widmore discusses with Desmond about his Solo Race Around the World in that timeline.  If he still sponsors an event like that, we don't find out. 

  • We also see a painting of a Scale with Black Rocks on one end and White Rocks on the other end.  Of course, we have seen this scale before in the Jacob/MIB Cave, and we heard Dogen refer to the scale of good and evil in every person.  Not sure if this picture being in Widmore's office is supposed to imply anything about Charles Widmore himself, the sideways timeline, or just be a nod to the observant fans. 
     




  • Well we find out why Charlie was going to Los Angeles in this timeline too.  Apparently, Charles's son is a musician. We all speculated he would be a piano player and never pushed into learning science.  Widmore's wife was putting a charity event together and Daniel had the idea to combine classical music with modern rock.   And the band Driveshaft was brought up, whom Desmond had never heard of.  So, it looks like Charles is going to bail him out to save the fundraiser and Desmond has to babysit ol' Charlie until it's time for the performance.  NICE! 
  • Charles, ironically, tells Desmond he has "THE LIFE" since he has no family, no commitment and how great it would be to be free of attachments.  Ironic because on the Island, Charles just told Desmond how he sacrificed those things for the Island.  
  • But the MOST ironic twist of all of this was that Charles pours his Macutcheon's 60 Year Scotch into 2 glasses and gives one to Desmond.  Desmond objects.  And then Charles says "Nothing is too good for you."  Wow.  The one thing Desmond always wanted to hear from Charles Widmore.  "Ah Have to get MAH Honah BAAACK!"  He has Charles' approval.  

Sideways Desmond?  Meet Sideways Charlie
  • So apparently, Charlie is being released at the "Airport Courthouse".  Not sure how significant this is because the last we saw, Liam was looking for him at a Los Angeles Police Department where Sawyer works.  We also see Desmond's reflection again as he's walking towards the courthouse.   Also not sure how coincidental/intentional it all was, but the woman with Charlie was using her phone and the noise on the phone sounded very much like the beeping from the Hatch Clock.  Desmond's phone sounded very similar too.  
  • Anyway, Charlie isn't very excited to see Desmond as he is released.  He walks right into traffic, as if he has a death wish and straight into JAX Bar.  Significant to Jack?  Significant to LAX?   Eh, I'm not going to try and figure it out! 
  • Desmond follows Charlie into the bar and the 2 of them have a drink.  Charlie buts on Desmond a little bit calling him Widmore's babysitter.  He then asks if Desmond is happy and can tell that he  isn't.  Desmond talks about making lots of money, having a good job and traveling the world.   Charlie asks if he's ever really been in love.  Of course he calls it "Consciousness Altering" love.  Of course, we didn't know how literal he was being when he said it.  I just thought it was funny due to all of Desmond's trippy consciousness traveling over the seasons.  
  
  • Charlie and Desmond discover they were both on the same flight back from Sydney.  Charlie talks about how he experienced his "consciousness altering" love on the flight.  He describes Kate in handcuffs 2 rows in front of him.  He described the Air Marshal knowing that Charlie had a stash of drugs on him.  So he went to the bathroom to eliminate the evidence and (swallow his stash).   At the exact moment he did this, they hit turbulence.  The same turbulence that Jack felt in the beginning of LA X I'm guessing.  The turbulence that made us think the plane was going to crash again but didn't.  And they just happened to be flying over the submerged Island as well.   Where am I going with this?  No Idea as always! 
  • Charlie talks about choking and it was going to be over.  Everything starts to go dark, he's slipping into the abyss.  And then he sees "HER".  A blonde rapturously beautiful blonde.  He knows her, they're together.  It was like they were always together, they always will be.  It felt like LOVE.  And just as he was about to be engulfed by it all, some idiot is standing there asking if he was okay.   (this would explain why he was so mad when Jack saved him)  Clearly, Charlie saw Claire in his vision.  He must have seen a flash to the Island when they were together.  So, is there a connection to almost dying and seeing the Island timeline?  Does it work both ways?  When Juliet was dying she saw her and Sawyer going dutch on coffee.  What is GOING ON?!?  
  • Desmond, naturally, doesn't believe Charlie.  But he does tell him to write a song about it!  Nice.  Desmond then gives Charlie a CHOICE.  A big theme in these final episodes.  The Losties having to make choices.  (Free Will)  Charlie's choice?  Stay at the bar and your musical career is over.  Go with Desmond, get put up in a fancy hotel right on the harbor front, and Charles Widmore (one of the most powerful men in the town) will owe him a favor.   I still find it really curious that ALL of these people from the LOST verse are established so well for themselves in Los Angeles. Maybe it was convenience writing, but after tonight's episode it seems like there is a bit more to it.  
  • Anyway, Charlie doesn't see the choice in that at all (or at least appears not to) and goes with Desmond.  Desmond, continuing the choice argument says that "There is always a choice brothaaa".  I think this is just the writers continuing the "CHOICE" theme more than anything.  It's not like this version of Desmond has any inkling to what's going on yet. 
The Car Crash
  • So Des and Charlie are in the car listening to "You All Everybody".  Charlie talks about his 1st single as being the beginning of everything great.  Desmond kind of shrugs it off saying he likes it for what it is.  Charlie feels sorry for Desmond for him thinking that he has it all.  Desmond inquires if Charlie thinks that none if it is real.  Charlie then offers Desmond a choice.  He can show Desmond what he's talking about or he can get out of the car.  And before Desmond can decide, Charlie takes control of the wheel and drives the car right into the marina.  

  • The water is filling into the car really quickly.  Desmond can't get Charlie loose and gets himself out of the car and goes for air.  Then he quickly dives back in for Charlie.  Once he gets down to Charlie's window, Charlie looks unconscious but then he wakes up and is clearly in control.  Naturally this was bringing back memories of Charlie drowning in The Looking Glass Station with Desmond on the outside looking in.   And before we know it, Charlie puts his hand on the glass and Desmond has a Flash seeing a vision from Another Life Brothah!!  Yep, it's Charlie with his "Not Penny's Boat" written on the hand.  WHAAAAT?!?!?! 

  • Of course, in this case, we cannot ignore that WATER was involved.  Neither of them seemed to be facing any life threatening situations just yet.  But was Charlie trying to put them in one of those situations?  He clearly looked like he was trying to get hit by one of those cars.  The reason I bring up water because it seemed to be involved for a majority of Desmond's flashes back and forth in "THE CONSTANT".  For example, remember when Charles Widmore intentionally left the water running in the bathroom?  I don't think Charlie really remembered that he drowned in the Island timeline because he's so anxious to get back to it.  Which confuses me to why he put his hand on the window.  But let's go with it and move on.  
  • Desmond gets Charlie out of the car and they are both taken to the hospital.   
Hospital
  • A doctor is checking out Desmond and asking him about nausea and all sorts of stuff.  Desmond is only concerned with finding Charlie at this point.  He needs to find out what he saw.  
  • The doctor then asks if he suffered from any hallucinations to which Desmond is caught in his tracks and wasn't sure how to answer.  The Doc signs him up for an MRI.  Oh boy, more magnets!   
  • Once again Desmond is asked if he has any keys or any metal on him prior to being put into the MRI machine.  And he is told about "pushing the button."  Loved that reference.  They were talking about the MRI Panic button, but it definitely was a reference to the ol' EXECUTE button in the hatch.  Good times!   
  • I thought this thing might actually send his consciousness back to the Island Timeline in the present day.  But instead he sees more flashes from his other life.   We pretty much see the journey of him meeting Penny, being rescued from the Island by Penny, and then them having their first baby together.  And we even see the shot of Desmond and little Charlie talking as they arrived to London.  Desmond didn't see them in any particular order, but I put the pictures in order for dramatic effect! 
  







  • Desmond begins hitting the panic button and now is even more determined to find Charlie.  When he gets to the reception desk he actually runs into Jack Shephard whom he remembers from Flight 815.  This would seem to confirm that it is the same timeline that we've been seeing all season.  So, I'm still not sure what to make of the wedding ring and Desmond's disappearance from flight 815.  Jack does recognize Desmond from the flight.  And Desmond is asking if he has seen Charlie from the flight.  Ironically, Jack had a hand in saving Charlie but I'm not sure if he ever made the connection.  Instead Jack is curious that there was another person from their flight who is now in that hospital.  Don't mistake coincidence for fate? (ahh we miss you Mr. Eko!) 
  • And before we know it we see Charlie in a hospital gown running.  He is being chased but weirdly enough, Desmond seems to be the only one chasing him in the end!  When Desmond catches up to him he wants to see Charlie's hand.  Charlie realizes that Desmond saw something too now.  Charlie tells Desmond that he wasn't trying to kill him, he was trying to show him something to which it seems he was successful.  Desmond asks who Penny is to which Charlie doesn't have an answer, but he realizes that Desmond "felt it".   Charlie now thinks that everything in this world they're living is meaningless.  He doesn't even see the point of playing at the Charity Event.   None of it matters.  All that matters is that they felt it.  
  • Charlie tells Desmond to stop worrying about him and start looking for Penny.  This is just getting nuts!  And that is the last we see of Charlie this episode.  I gotta say I was pretty excited he had such a lengthy role in this episode.  Of course with Desmond meeting Claire and Charlie looking for Claire, it would have been nice for the 2 of them to run into each other in sideways land.  Maybe it's still going to happen.
  • Desmond calls Charles Widmore to tell him that he lost the Rock Star.  Widmore is not too happy. We begin to see his evil side again.  But even so, it seemed more sarcastic in tone with Desmond than it was in the Island timeline.  But he still was not happy and is making Desmond go and tell Widmore's wife himself that Charlie will not be making it. 
The Widmore Residence
  • Minkowski takes Desmond to the Widmore home where the charity event is being held.  George offers Desmond LUCK with dealing with Mrs. Widmore. 
  • Did anyone spot Daniel sitting at the piano when we first got a shot of the tent?   He was there rocking out some classical jams on the ebony and ivory! 
  • I don't think it took a rocket scientist to figure out who Charles Widmore's wife would be.  It's none other than Eloise Hawking! But in this timeline she is Eloise Widmore.   And of course Daniel is Daniel Widmore.   Why on earth they all had different last names in the Island timeline, I couldn't tell you.  Did anyone catch Eloise's reaction to when she first sees Desmond?  It is of complete and utter shock. 
  • Once Desmond introduces himself as working for Charles, then Eloise falls into the role and talks about how it's a travesty they haven't "met" before.  But clearly, she knows that they did.   Desmond tries to apologize for Driveshaft not being able to perform.  Eloise tells him not to worry about it.  And that it comes with the territory when hiring Rock Stars.  Then she has to go and refer to time travel stuff and say "What Happened Happened."  Was it a hint?  Was it just a nod to observant fans again?  I don't know! 





  • But then Eloise parts ways with Desmond and while Desmond is on his way out he hears some of the staff reading names of attendees.  And Penny's name was mentioned (not sure if we ever heard her last name before but it is Milton).  And we find out she is coming alone.   Desmond asks to see the list once he hears her name.  And Eloise comes in to disrupt Desmond's "awakening" telling him that he may not see the list.

  • Eloise asks Desmond to walk with him and they have a chat very reminiscent to their chat when Desmond was time traveling in season 3's Flashes Before Your Eyes.  But this time instead of Eloise having knowledge of future events, she has knowledge of Desmond's Island and current existence.  (Note: Daniel overheard the scene where Desmond was looking for Penny)
  • Eloise tells Desmond that she wants him to "STOP" and that someone has affected the way he sees things.  She calls it a problem.  She calls it a VIOLATION.   WHAT!?!   A Violation?  What on earth does that mean?  Is this some new set of "RULES" for the Sideways Land?  Clearly, Eloise has an inkling to what is going on.  Does Charles too?   Eloise tells Desmond whatever he thinks he is looking for that he needs to stop looking for it. 
  • Desmond realizes that Eloise knows what he's looking for.  And then she says she doesn't know why he'd be looking citing his perfect life and how he finally has what he as always wanted more than anything.  Charles Widmore's approval.  Yes, maybe he did want Charles's approval PRE-ISLAND, but after the Island he was content living with Penny and Charlie!   Desmond asks how Eloise knows what he wants, and she says "because I bloody do!"   
  • Eloise then tells Desmond that he is "Not Ready 'YET'" which is why he can't see the list.  What?  What does YET mean?  Does that mean at some point he WILL be ready?  In fact, I share Desmond's question.  Ready for WHAT?  Does Eloise or Charles have a plan to expose things to the LOSTIES in Sideways land?  What would it accomplish?   I guess we still just have more questions than answers, but it certainly ties these 2 worlds together more than ever!  
Desmond and Daniel
  • Desmond leaves for the car more confused than ever.  He asks George for some alcohol.  
  • Before they leave though, Daniel knocks on the door!  Nice, I miss this guy.  He says that they need to talk.  And first, let me just say, that I love they have him dressed the same way as he was on the island.  The tie loosened and the untucked shirt.  Good times! 
  • Daniel asks Desmond if he believes in Love at First Sight.   Daniel shares a story similar to Desmond's where he sees a woman that he fell in love with the minute he met her.  Why?  Well, because it was Charlotte folks!  He talks about the first time he met her she was in a museum a few weeks ago.  (oh boy, Daniel probably doesn't know that Sawyer had his way with her after that!)   Anyway, he said she works at the museum and was on her lunch break.  (As we learned in "RECON" Charlotte works for Miles' father Pierre Chang)   Daniel cites that she was eating a chocolate bar.  Remember her dying words "I'm not allowed to have chocolate before dinner" which was also the first thing she said as a child to Daniel when he returned to the Island in 1977 ("The Variable")     
  • He said as soon as he saw her, right in that moment, it was like he already loved her.   Then he said that's when things got weird.  He pulled out a book that looks very similar to his time travel journal.  He said the night that he met that woman, he went to sleep and when he woke up he wrote a bunch of equations and all sorts of stuff.  I couldn't tell you what it all means, but I see words on there like SPACE TIME INTERVAL, REAL SPACE, IMAGINARY TIME.  Hmmmmm


  • Daniel says he is a musician and had no idea what it was.  He showed the sketches to a friend at Cal Tech and he told Daniel that this is Quantum Mechanics and it would take someone who has dedicated their entire life to physics could come up with those equations.  As we know, Eloise pushed Daniel to dedicate his life to science instead of following his true love of Piano in the Island timeline.  All in the name of sending Daniel to the island to die at the hands of a younger Eloise.  But not before giving Jack the mission of detonating Jughead. 
  • So Desmond asks what the formulas mean.  Daniel says to imagine something terrible is about to happen, something catastrophic.  And the only way to stop it from happening is by releasing a huge amount of energy, like setting off a nuclear bomb.  Hmmmm.  Before he mentioned the Nuke, I thought he was referring to Desmond blowing the hatch.  Island Charles referred to Desmond surviving a catastrophic electromagnetic event.   And he did so by releasing a huge amount of energy when turning that safe key.  But, that doesn't seem to be where Daniel is going.   Desmond laughs at Daniel and asks if he wants to set off a Nuclear bomb.  
  • Daniel then asks Desmond what if all of this wasn't supposed to be their life.  What if they had some other life and for some reason, they changed things.  He then says he doesn't want to set off a nuclear bomb, but he thinks he already did.   WOA...did they just clarify that the Sideways Timeline was caused by Jughead?  Or just that Daniel thinks it was? Why would the producers go out of their way to tell us that it might not have been jughead that caused the sideways timeline if it actually was?  To get us speculating about other options?  But, if it was jughead, it would seem like this isn't the end state of things.  Tie this into Eloise saying that Desmond isn't ready YET and I'm not sure where this is going.  But I like it! 
  • Desmond asks what this has to do with him.   Daniel asked why Desmond asked Eloise about a woman named Penny.  Just like Charlie he asks if Desmond FELT IT.  Charlie, Daniel and Desmond all felt love.   Desmond says it's impossible, he doesn't know anything about the woman or even if she exists.   Well, Daniel is here to save the day.  He reveals to Desmond that Penny is his half sister.  
  • Not that this is a shocking revelation.  We discussed it at length after "THE VARIABLE" last year.  But, what confuses me is why Charles and Eloise are still together in this timeline and why they separated in the Island timeline.  And how Penny and the "off island" mother fit into this whole equation.  Also, were Eloise and Charles ever on the Island in this timeline? (I may have already asked his question above, but that was awhile ago!)  So was Charles just destined to have 2 children in either timeline?  Are we ever going to meet Penny's mother?  Probably very unlikely at this point and probably not important. 
  • Anyway, Daniel tells Desmond that he knows the exact location and time where he can meet Penny. 
Back to the Stadium in Another Life Brotha
  • Yes, where Desmond and Jack meet for the first time in the Island timeline.  Where they both are running a Tour de Stad around the stadium steps.  And where Penny finds Desmond after he is released from Military prison.....this is where Desmond meets Penny for the first time in the Sideways timeline.  Except this time SHE is running the Tour de Stad!  

  • Desmond goes up and asks if she is Penny.  She acknowledges and he is so excited to meet her and extends his hand.  (another running theme in this season). Penny says hi and takes his hand. And with that, Desmond wakes up back on the Island.  Significance to the hands touching?  Maybe.          






Desmond's New Outlook on his "Lives"
Island Timeline
  • Desmond wakes up and Mr. Intimidator guy is shocked that Desmond is okay.  And Charles is pleased that he is.  Desmond acknowledges that he is okay.  He wonders how long he was unconscious.  Charles tells him that it was no more than a few seconds.  
  • Charles apologizes again for doing this to him but that Desmond's talent is vital to the mission.  And right when he's about to explain what that mission is, Desmond tells him he is fully onboard and that he understands!  Wait....we don't understand Desmond! Let him talk!  Desmond knows he was brought to the Island to do something very important and asks when they start.  
  • Okay, so Desmond clearly experienced this sideways vision.  Is he happy with what he saw and wants to live that life?  Does he think that whatever he does on the Island will lead to living that life?  Will he still have his child Charlie?  And beyond all of that, what did Eloise mean by telling Desmond that he isn't "Ready Yet?"  Is the Sideways Timeline even a permanent existence? 
  • In any case, Charles is quite happy that Desmond was such a quick convert! 
  • After that scene, Desmond and Zoe are walking with a few other goons behind them.  She wants to know what happened to Desmond.  20 minutes before he was beating Widmore over the head with an IV Stand and now he's being cooperative.  Desmond says that a lot can happen in 20 minutes.  Zoe said that the thing must have fried his brain.  Desmond smiles asking "Did it?"  
  • Before Zoe can say anything else, Sayid is there snapping people's necks and stuff.  He spares Zoe (not sure why), pointing his gun he tells her to run.  Zoe complies! 



  • Sayid tells Desmond that he doesn't have time to explain but that these people are extremely dangerous and that they need to leave now.  Desmond just smiles and says "of course!"  Hmmm, does he think that whatever happens on this Island is going to happen and that it will all lead to him living in the Sideways World?  Sure seems that way doesn't it?  He doesn't care if he follows Widmore's plan or follows Zombie Sayid.   Are they going to pick up Jin in the process?  I guess we'll find out. 
  • As Desmond is following Sayid, we hear the transition to the Flash Sideways which we didn't hear the first time.   Does that mean that Island Desmond isn't experiencing this next Sideways scene? Not quite sure.  


Sideways Timeline

  • We rejoin Sideways Desmond at the stadium and he is collapsed on the ground.  Penny says that Desmond fainted right after they shook hands.  Well, that's kind of strange isn't it?  Does it remind anyone else of THE CONSTANT when 1996 Desmond was traveling back and forth from 1996 to 2004?  He was only conscious in one of the 2 times.  Is that what is going on here to some extent?   I don't think we are to assume that Island Desmond is unconscious when Sideways Desmond wakes up.   It all is very interesting, but I'm sure we'll get more information on it. 
  • Penny is already joking with Desmond saying that she must have a certain effect on him.  If she only knew!  She then gets the same feeling that they have met before.  Desmond dismisses it saying that they would have remembered if they had.  Desmond then gets some courage and asks Penny to go out for coffee.   They have another one of their classic scenes.  She says she is a sweaty mess. He says he just fainted in front of her and they can call it even.  She accepts the invitation and tells her that she'll meet him at the coffee shop in an hour.  Awwwww
  • Desmond then returns to the car and tells Minkowski where to go.  But he also wants to cash in on George's constant offers of getting him anything he wants.  He wants the flight manifest from Oceanic 815.  George says he definitely can get it.  And when he asks what Desmond wants it for,  he says "I just want to show THEM something."  



BOOM LOST!!!!!!

Loved it folks!  Just absolutely loved it!  So now is Island Desmond trying to get to the Sideways world and is Sideways Desmond trying to get to the Island world?  OR, does he just want to make all of the LOSTIES aware of the other timeline's existence so that they can find their "HAPPILY EVER AFTER" in Sideways land?  Perhaps Jack or Sawyer realize their affections for Kate.  Charlie will get with Claire.  Sayid with Nadia or Shannon?  Libby with Hugo?  Oh duh, Sawyer with Juliet.  That means Jack with Kate!  I'm sure all of the big mythology buffs would just love a happy LOVEY DOVEY ending for all of the LOSTIES.  I'm sure it won't be that simple.  Especially when you throw in Eloise's "You're not ready yet" and whatever they're trying to accomplish on the Island.   But Carlton Cuse, the other executive producer, tweeted last night that with this episode "a new chapter of the season begins".  I totally can see that.  I would think the Sideways Timeline, as many of us predicted, will continue to get a little more interesting!   And I can't wait until next week! 

That's all I have for today folks.  Well, until we get into the many comments that I'm sure we'll all have.  I encourage you all to share your thoughts!  Hope you enjoyed my ramblings as always and I'll see you next week.  NAMASTE! 

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244 comments:

1 – 200 of 244   Newer›   Newest»
Rukshan said...

Woo hoo! 1st Comment :p you must have had a awesome time recapping that one Mike..

That episode was a revelation! Its pretty clear that the time line we are seeing this season is not an alternate, but a consequence.

Charles and the team must have been successful at stopping MIB from leaving, and some how got every one out using the islands EM powers and that’s why Desmond is needed. WOW didn’t see that coming, and it all seems so clear and obvious now.

Good old Desmond has got his old skill of linking the past and the present/future and now that he has put it together, I’m sure he’ll get every one in with it.. arhh cant wait :D

Jenny said...

Awesome episode, and awesome review Mike! I just want to reiterate what a great job you're doing here!

Loved the whole episode - especially how everything seems to be tying together with Desmond. And ELOISE!! I'm starting to wonder much much more about here and if she's more of a puppet master than we thought!

Can't wait to hear everyone's comments! Thanks again Mike!

dthollis said...

Amazing episode; one of my favorites now for sure.

Many times this episode they talked about "releasing a huge amount of energy", and the last episode they were asking Jin about the pockets of energy around the island. I think this is going to go back to how they deal with the MIB. Since Des can handle the energy they will send him to blow up another pocket. Which might be why Des is so keen on letting this all happen because he knows he gets to go back to sideways land with Penny, and has Widmore's approval (aka the perfect life). Could this be how everyone gets to go to sideways land?

I also liked how we now have Sayid and Des together. 2 polar opposites at this point since one is dead inside and the other is ecstatic.

Gwen said...

Great episode, I just about fell off of my couch when Eloise said 'what happened, happened'.

Jase said...

Loved the episode. Only problem I have is that Daniel seemed to make quite the logical leap when talking about "what if all of this wasn't supposed to be their life" with Desmond. And brought up the nuclear bomb, etc... To all of us who have been watching the show, this makes sense. But how does a pianist, with no knowledge of an island, wierd physics, time travel, and such suddenly steer his thinking towards this conclusion? A slight contrivance on the part of the writers I think, but perhaps explainable if we find out the two timelines are "bleeding together" as was postulated.

Jase said...

Loved the episode. Only problem I have is that Daniel seemed to make quite the logical leap when talking about "what if all of this wasn't supposed to be their life" with Desmond. And brought up the nuclear bomb, etc... To all of us who have been watching the show, this makes sense. But how does a pianist, with no knowledge of an island, wierd physics, time travel, and such suddenly steer his thinking towards this conclusion? A slight contrivance on the part of the writers I think, but perhaps explainable if we find out the two timelines are "bleeding together" as was postulated.

Mike V. said...

So funny how everyone is excited to post FIRST now lol I feel like this has turned into EW.com! :-)

Rukshan - Had a blast recapping it. I only wish there was more time in a night before work the next day so I could spend more time on it!

The episode was definitely a revelation, but I think we already knew it wasn't an ALTERNATE Timeline. Maybe not proven on the show yet, but Darlton kept enforcing that it wasn't an alternate and that both timelines are REAL. But yes, it is seeming like a "CONSEQUENCE" and I guess because Desmond and Juliet both experienced the Sideways before this season ends, that it wasn't caused by MIB leaving or staying on the island. But it seems like you're suggesting the opposite!LOL

Oh wait...duh....Juliet also temporarily survived a nuclear blast combined with direct contact to electromagnetism. Maybe that's why she also saw her sideways reality?? didn't even put that togeter as I was typing.

Interesting CLEAR AND OBVIOUS speculations on what's going to happen LOL We'll see! But I agree Desmond has become a very pivotal character (always seems that he has been actually lol) I can't wait either!

Jenny - thanks for the major props! I appreciate the appreciation! Definitely am interested in Eloise as well. I've still been wondering about how she knew all she knew in Flashes Before Your Eyes. Yes, Daniel's Journal for a lot of it...but what about the guy with the red shoes dying in the building collapse or whatever? Still don't think that was in the journal.

DTHollis - yeah you and Rukshan could be right. I definitely think there is going to be another electromagnetic event. It could be how everyone gets to sideways land. But I still wonder if Sideways land REALLY is the Happily Ever after for everyone. Based on Eloise's comments, I just don't know. But if Desmond starts showing people how they can live their lives with the knowledge of their former existences, it could be interesting to see where they go with that. And yes pairing up Sayid and Des again is a good time...especially with how different they both are now!

Gwen - yeah Eloise saying that line again was fantastic!

Jase - Daniel did talk to a friend of his at Cal Tech that helped him put his theories together. I don't think he derived it on his own. And, we also don't know if he had other visions from his past existence. He said it "STARTED" with Charlotte. It's very exciting stuff!

Keep the comments coming folks!

Rukshan said...

This really may be the greatest story ever told in the history of TV... I cant remember being this excited about a fictional show ever!

Getting back to the point.. the theme always was about Destiny vs Freewill. May be they end up with both, they end up living the life they were destined to live, but they end up getting there through free will.

In the new time line,they have not been to the island, and they have not been forced to do anything.. so then Desmond shows the Losties the possibilities, they get to chose if they carry on living as they were, or they can chose to live it differently.

Anonymous said...

GREAT EPISODE! ONE OF MY FAVORITES! I had to watch it a second time immediately! I have lots of thoughts, but I need to organize them and will get back later! Cajun QT

Mike V. said...

Rukshan - totally agree on LOST in general being the greatest story ever told. Like I've mentioned before...I had an unhealthy obsession for Friends back in the day, but it was for different reasons LOL LOST is just an amazingly flushed out story....and even if they didn't have it all planned from the beginning, they made lots of people believers!!

Back to your point....I like your ideas....I'm thinking the same thing about Desmond. Of course, then it would seem like this Sideways-verse IS an Epilogue but with an island twist! lol And I still wonder what Eloise meant by Desmond not being "ready YET". What do they need to be ready for? To be told the truth and live with that knowledge? Or to make the sideways-verse CEASE to exist?

And why does Eloise have the knowledge? Is she behind it all? Did she figure it out more quickly than everyone else? Why would she know all about DESMOND'S island existence again? Ahhh so many questions. wouldn't have it any other way though!!!

Mike V. said...

Cajun - good luck organizing your thoughts! lol But yeah FANTASTIC EPISODE!

Richard said...

When Eloise said to Desmond that this was a violation, it brought back memories of the boy telling Flocke about the rules.

Which has me asking who makes the rules? Which ties into, who controls the island? Or maybe a this point after rehearing Widmore tell Dez that the island isn't done with him yet--maybe the island is in control?

Jack broke the mirrors in the lighthouse so how do the reflections in SW land connect to the island? But, there is no question now that the two timelines are connected. It's like with Dez, once he touched Penny (his constant) the lights went on for him in both timelines.

Lots to consider.

Shawn said...

constants and variables, free will and fate (twist of the first set), black and white. We get the sense there are couples to everything. The mirrors even give us a pair of images (the actual and the reflection) and interestingly, its the couples that seem to straddle both timelines. Eloise and Chuck, Desmond and Penny, Charlie and Claire, etc. My point? Not sure i have one. But it seems these couples are pulling people between the timelines. Daniel and Charlie both describe their moments of love as pointing to them how the sideways was somehow fake (loosely speaking). Desmond, having found his constant and touching her actually realizes it, a sort of enlightenment. So, maybe he will work to bring together other constants and variables? maybe even bring together smokey and jacob? who the heck knows.

Mike V. said...

Richard - I too thought of the rules....yeah it could possibly be tied to that Boy (or the island or whatever) talking to Flocke. I think Michael Emerson suggested/hinted that we may not learn about what these RULES are until the Series Finale. So they definitely are important!

Yeah, real good point with Dez touching his constant and the Lights going on in both timelines (to everyone that mentioned it). It was kind of nuts! I have no idea where to start on what to consider, but it's all exciting speculation. I agree there is no question that the timelines are connected. I really never questioned it personally, but this certifiably proves it!

Shawn - It's okay, we all ramble on about stuff without an actual point! But you bring up a good one in the process with the
PAIRS. It sure seems like Desmond is going to start going around like Charlie and "SHOWING" people the truth. But maybe for them to use to their advantage. Maybe he also needs to direct Charlie towards Sideways Claire. I just have no idea....but I'm very intrigued by the direction the show is taking!

Rukshan said...

I don't think we can expect a story book ending where the BAD/Black side loses and the Good/White prevails. It should be about balance, the scale in Widmore's painting was balanced, Probably to show that things are balanced at that moment in time.

Eloise may have known about the possibilities for a long time. She had that massive machine that drew the path of the island, and she has to know about the possible events that cause the island to move.So she either always knew it, or used her expertise to find out about the event that caused there state of existence.

Desmond may not be ready yet because he didn't yet go with Sayeed, and see the full story. Once he has been there, seen MIB and the other side of the story, both he and us will know what he has to do and why

Jerry and Stacie said...

Very good episode indeed! I kind of took the opposite view on Desmond. In my head, he saw what his life would be like without Penny in Sideways Land, and when he woke back up in the Island Timeline he wanted to do whatever he had to do to keep life the way he knows it. Of course this is all just speculation! I'm also very interested in what will happen when Charles W. and Ben meet up. Maybe I'm the only one that noticed this, but Charles seemed to make it a point to let Desmond know that it was Ben that shot him. I wonder if there will be a conflict between the two when they are SEEMINGLY on the same side?! I'm so excited!!

Gwen said...

Quick question, that is likely a repeat (so sorry about that). Is it commonly believed that Desmond's abilities (time travel & otherwise) are independent of the island or because of (possibly triggered by) the island? Thanks!

Holly said...

I am so not smart enough to follow anymore....my brain hurts (or fried like Des).

I love it anyway, so glad I've watched from Day 1!!!

It's so bittersweet, I want it to continue but I can't wait to get to the end...

KMike said...

Love the recaps you catch so much that I miss.

I have a few thoughts and please forgive me if someone has already posted any of them.

First, this episode shows that Desmond is really special which makes me wonder if his name was on the wall or the light house (can't remember.

Second, What if there is a connection between the schedule that Widmore's crew has and sideways land. If the test on Desmond is before it was scheduled maybe that is why Eloise is surprised to see him and says he is not ready yet. She obviously knows something about the Island timeline that Charles doesn't.

Lastly, here is my end of the show episode. The whole thing either is or was one big loop. Maybe the same thing with the same people has been happening over and over again like the Matrix. Either something different will happen this time ending the loop or at the end it will start again. It would fit with Jacob and MIB's conversation on the beach about how Jacob keeps bringing them there and they destroy then Jacob says something about everything that happened before is just practice.

Let me know what you guys think.

Mike V. said...

Rukshan - yeah I was thinking/reading about the balanced scale as well. LOST wouldn't be LOST if it had a storybook ending. We'll see! Interesting bringing the Lamp Post station back up. It was also interesting when Eloise brought up the "INTELLIGENT MAN" who created the Lamp Post...we had always speculated it might be Faraday, even though that wouldn't make sense because it seemed to have been created prior to Faraday leaving the island in 1974 or whenever. I wonder if that comes into play at all. So you think Eloise is suggesting that ISLAND Desmond wasn't ready yet? You think Sideways Eloise is aware of what point in time Island Desmond is even though that is 2007 vs. Sideways 2004? I dunno...that could be a little confusing. Do we thing that Sideways and Island Desmond have a shared consciousness now? That would be kind of crazy since they're both working on different objectives. I gotta think that Island Desmond only got a glimpse of his other potential life. As did Sideways Desmond get a glimpse. But I have no idea what I'm talking about!

Jerry and Stacie - Interesting perspective on Desmond's view of sideways. I think the fact that he met up with Penny at the end made him think that he could have a better life in Sideways land. Not sure if he thinks he would still have his son Charlie or not though. But he would have Charles Widmore's approval. He'd have his "HONAH BAAACK" LOL I just wonder why he would willingly accept to "SACRIFICE" something without even being told what it was...if he didn't have the desire for that Sideways life. But I could be wrong. I didn't miss the fact that Charles told Desmond that Ben shot him. I have been looking forward to the Ben/Charles meet-up for some time now! I guess we still can't rule out the fact that Sayid/MIB are right and that Charles and Crew are not there for a GOOD reason. It's just so tough to know what side to root for still! But I still say stick with Team Jack wherever that is!

Gwen - I don't really know what the common belief is. But I would think that the unique properties of the Island had something to do with the way Desmond is now. So, I'd say the ISLAND is heavily involved.

Ian said...

How much do you want to bet that when Desmond and Penny meet at the coffee shop we'll see Sawyer and Juliet there going dutch?

MJ said...

God my head hurts. It did seem like Island Des was trying to get to sideways. But it did not feel like sideway Des was trying to get to the island - per your comment at the end of the recap Mike.

My head hurts though. And you forgot to mention sun/jin in the happy endings. But I dont' think that everyone will get one any way.

And why would island Des want to go to sideways world? island Des has had some hard times, but is now with Pen and has a son. LA Des only just met the woman and can't even know she will date him.

Mike V. said...

Holly - don't worry, I'm just as confused....I just pretend to know a lot by writing a lot of words! :-) lol The great thing is...I LOVE the confusion. I almost don't want it to come to an end! So I totally agree with you!

KMike - Thanks for the props. I try my best! I don't think Hume was on the Wall or the Light House...but I'd have to check the light house. I don't think he's a candidate. But he's definitely SPECIAL. Ahhhh very good point on the Widmore Schedule vs. the Sideways Timeline. I didn't even think connecting those 2. But that certainly would explain why Eloise is so adamant about Desmond not being ready yet. We'll see!

Yeah, lots of people have speculated on the LOOP....the Time Loop Theory and all of that fun stuff. You could be absolutely right....that conversation between Jacob and MIB made us want to speculate the LOOP even further. But I think with Jacob telling Richard that he has brought many ships there over and over again trying to prove MIB wrong...it seems like it is NOT a loop....but just a pattern of events that keeps repeating itself with different people. I am back and forth on whether I like the MATRIX SEQUEL Theory....mainly because the Matrix Sequels are so bad! lol And I'd hate for LOST to just be the same idea regurgitated from 2 bad sequels to an awesome movie! LOL But....the concept is still pretty interesting...so we'll see!


Okay...off to Lunch! And this is probably where I fall behind in the comments for the forseeable future. But I'll do what I can!

Mike V. said...

Ian, I thought the same thing about Sawyer and Juliet...but I just figured it was too early in the Sideways timeline for that to happen. Right now Sawyer is probably on a date with Charlotte LOL But yeah it's certainly convenient that they both are talking COFFEE!

MJ - I think i already forget what I wrote in the recap! LOL I'm going to have to re-read and then check out your comment again after lunch!

Don said...

Like I said last week, nothing is predictable when it comes to Desmond! That guy is just fascinating. I for one am not the biggest fan of the whole mushy side of Lost. I feel Sawyer/Juliet was fake, at least on his side, cuz he always had freckles in the back of his mind. Hated how Kate made our leader Jack into a complete wus and just toyed with him most of the time. But Dez and Penny together is just captavating stuff. Mike, you can have Ross/Rachel. Give me Desmond/Penny anyday.

Did you have a theory as to why Eloise was in a picture on that monk's desk where Desmond was?

Deebo said...

Mike- amazing recap for an amazing episode…I must say that I’m not sure that the sideways is the “Happy” ending for everybody…Daniel seemed like he thought the life they had was the wrong one and Charlie wanted to leave the sideways as well…Desmond already had the perfect life with Penny off island in the main timeline and Widmore screwed that up!!...Maybe it’s me but I think Desmond finding all the Losties in the sideways isn’t going to be a good thing! Quantum Leap Shout out- Nice Touch!!

MJ said...

'Quantum Leap Accelerator ' LOL Good one.

'not sure if we ever heard her last name before but it is Milton' Seems to me that she was always Penny Widmore and that Milton is a sideways change.

I agree - the sideways is not alternate. But I'm wondering if sideways is an iteration in the time loop ?? Possibly showing either life without the 815ers/Jacob changing things or the outcome of them changing things. But which one is the goal, which is the one they are trying to attain? Dunno !

can't think of anything cool said...

Just a quick note to throw out there, and (Ugh) I didn't even get a chance to post last week. I now believe the Adam & Eve will end up being Charles & Eloise! Will try to process more as the day goes on...But what an ABSOLUTELY AMAZING episode- and recap Mike V. ;)!!!!

AUStarwars said...

Mike,

Excellent review and work as always! Loved the ESB references...stop dissing on the Matrix sequals, they really arent that bad, you are just looking at them in context to the amazing first one..hrm, kinda like asking "how could people hate THIS season of Lost", when all we are doing is comparing it to older seasons ;-)

I think the full link of the sideways world to the "real" world was obvious..the only real question i have is the nature of Eloise and her involvement..the real problem is that I do not think there is TIME to get a full background on Widmore and Eloise, or really all of the "Others" for that matter which is my real problem with this season, there just isnt enough TIME for it all to be revealed (as promised) and some of these things are important..like why is Eloise so knowledgable no matter which time she is in (the real time, the alternate Desmond time from all his episodes, Sideways land, etc)? Will we ever know?

This is where the faith of MIB/Jacob vs. the Science of Season Five (Faraday) comes into play, and is another of my problems, what are we supposed to believe?

I just do not think there is enough time, period..i know die hards are always going to have questions and maybe I should just "go along for the ride" but I just cannot acccept "it is what it is" or "its like medichlorians, you dont want to know" as the answers..

but i did like the episode, would have loved it more 2 seasons ago...but my thoughts are that Desmond realizes the problems with the sideways world..he saw that he ultimately had to fail Widmore in order to get Penny, and that the two are in conflict with one another, he cant seem to have both. It seems like "the Widmores" will do anything in their power (which is considerable) to live the lives that they want, that they are entitled to (which again, we dont understand because we dont understand "the others") but it seems like the others ARE obsessed with their kids, more than usual, and are willing to do whatever it takes to make sure they live

this i think reties into the "no kids on the island" thing and was the original reason WHY Charles left the Island to have Penny, he lost Faraday anyway..

oh well, maybe the nuances wont be answered, guess i should give up on my quest for full disclosure lol..not sure, but it was cool to see the references in the sideways world

maybe desmond will gather the passengers (including the random red shirts from the whole run of the show?) at the coffee shop and scream "WE HAVE TO GO BACK" in the end..

in a complete side note: V was actually good last night, surprisingly..

Shawn said...

where is Eloise in the Island timeline? As far as we know, she is back on the main land right? I'm not seeing any indication of her coming back such that she would end up the Eve skeleton.

Weasel said...

test it on Captain Solo... HAHAHAHAHAHA Awesome

Ok, so after this episode my prologue theory is out the door now. So, I am thinking midlogue. I am thinking they are going to go back to the island from sideways and that will make the current 2007 timeline correct. Confused? good. me too.

It may also explain why Sun did not go back to 1977. She is going to die in sideways time so could not go back to 1977 from there. Therefore, her normal 2007 self could not go back to 1977 because it would create a paradox or something. ok more confusion... i know

also, in Daniel's notes, notice that is says "Object @ light speed". Is that object the island? hmmmm...

I am going to have to watch this episode again tonight since the only good thing on Wednesday is South Park

btw, great job on the recap, as usual

Jenny said...

I've been watching some of the old episodes from season 3, and there's something that I noticed. (Maybe it was mentioned here previously - sorry in advance if it's been hashed out already!)

If you look at Season 3, Episode 17 "Catch 22". At 37:54, the monk/priest guy has a picture of him with Eloise Hawkins on his desk. That's super bizarre. With this and last night's episode, I'm thinking that Eloise is orchestrating the whole shebang.

Anonymous said...

Ok, this is my first comment, and I only discovered your blog this season, but I LOVE it. I wait anxiously to read it every morning and see if you had the same thought as me, and you also help me put my memories together. Like, last night, I knew I had seen Desmond's driver before, but I could NOT remember his story, so thanks for that.

I have no theory yet, just waiting to see what happens, but I do have one question. Is there a theory about when the island sinks that I'm missing somewhere. Obviously it was under water in the first episode this season, but hs there been any more information about that?? Thanks again for the great blog!!!!!!!

Deebo said...

Weird that Charlie and Daniel were having memories from the main timeline? They did both die in the main timeline…coincidence?

Anonymous said...

Will Desmond discover that Penny is the mother of Jacks doofus of a son? hhmmmmmm..... I think SO!

I also like the theory of freewill vs. fate. That the sideways is the losties living their life the way in which they wanted to and the current timeline is what their life is destined for. In the end when desmond states "I have to show them something." He is going to explain the island timeline and see who will go there willfully. Those who go willfully maybe are the candidates? Idk....just like the rest of you! God this show really turns the gears in my noggin.


BTW, Just like Desmond episodes, Mike V you never leave me disappointed!

-Jackson

ALBY said...

Mike:

Got this from a blog about Lost from the NY Times...thought you might find this interesting...they make an good point as to how this may all tie together:

"It’s now up to Desmond Hume, chief button-pusher and involuntary time traveler, to somehow reconcile real time and imaginary time and, I’m going to guess, get everyone aligned with their “constants”: he and Penny, Sun and Jin, Jack and Kate; as well as Charlie and Claire, Daniel and Charlotte, Sawyer and Juliet, Hurley and Libby. (My prediction: not only will the timelines be reconciled, but it will be done in such a way that our favorite characters will be alive and have the potential for getting together.)"

Here is a link to the Times blog:
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/lost-watch-desmond-agonistes/

Maybe... in Lost world... all you need is love(Or a good constant)???

Mike V. said...

Whew, I'm back...and as I figured, lots to catch up on! lol Not complaining!

MJ - Oh, I remember what I said now about Sideways Des wanting his Island life. I think I'm leaning more towards the whole Desmond wanting to experience SOME parts of his Island Life IN the Sideways Life...without interference of the Island. Of course...now thinking about that more, that might suggest a Jacob-less existence. Maybe we are supposed to support MIB. hmmmmm We'll see! I think I forgot another couple in the happy endings besides Sun/Jin....and now i'm forgetting it once again! LOL I agree though...not everyone will get a happy ending. (minds out of the gutter people!)

Don - LOL on the relationships. I cannot argue with you on Desmond and Penny....but in LOST terms...don't make me choose! LOL Desmond and Penny are clearly the best relationship on LOST and a love story for the ages. Ross and Rachel are a different show...different circumstances...I refuse to compare! :-) But I have to disagree on Sawyer/Juliet....I thought Josh and Elizabeth did a great job at selling that relationship in the amount of scenes they were given to do it. And, I'll always be a Jater! LOL Back to the "COOL" stuff in LOST....yeah, Desmond is my favorite character when it comes to big mythology reveals on the show. None of his episodes disappointed me!

As for a theory on Eloise and the Monk? I have no idea, but I was actually wondering about that again the other day. It would seem that the monk may have been involved in sending Desmond on his path. Was he important in Island Mythology? No idea.

Deebo - Thanks for the Amazing Props! Too kind. I would agree that Sideways isn't happy for everyone. But what Charlie may not know is that he dies in the Island timeline...and maybe his death led to this point where he could have a normal existence with Claire, you know? Maybe Desmond needs to convince him of that. Maybe the same with Daniel....it was Daniel's determination to change things. Maybe when all of the LOSTIES get together, they will end up piecing everything that happened just by being in close proximity to each other. Woaa...that sounds too much like HEROES lol I think the big difference in the timelines is that Desmond has Widmore's approval...and he could still get Penny...and he wouldn't have experienced 3 years of his life pushing that button....he wouldn't have spent time in prison for whatever happened in his military days (trying to honor Penny's father)....he wouldn't have entered the sailing race to get Widmore's approval. less time away from Penny...and more time with her. I dunno....it's not perfect! lol Who knows where they're going? And thanks Deebo and MJ for the Quantum Leap props! I was pretty happy with myself after that one, I won't lie! LOL

MJ - I have read since then that Milton might be short for John Milton who wrote PARADISE LOST. Lots of good/evil, devil stuff in that crazy poem. Talks about the Garden of Eden and the Fall of Man. All that good stuff that has been referenced on LOST. It's definitely a sideways difference and she took her Maiden name...but just like all the other names in the Hawking/Hume/Widmore/Faraday/Milton circle...they're all famous authors, philopshers and what not lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Lost Yeah if you're going to go all time loop...then YES...there could be multiple iterations I guess....and I have no idea what the end goal is...maybe a combination of both...and maybe that's why Desmond had the ring on in the first part of LA X and now no ring. So confusing!

Can't Think - Charles and Eloise are a good guess for Adam and Eve! I still wonder how it will all happen to that it's 40-50 years prior to 2004. We'll see! And thanks for the props on the recap!

AUStar Wars - as usual..you will get a separate post response lol

davidsalako said...

Yeah! Love the Dezmundo episodes! What a great character and he and Penny are so great to watch as a couple on screen!
All this talk about meeting up for coffee - there was another "couple" that had some coffee and whose meeting had a profound effect on the timeline of events on this crazy show - Desmond and Libby "Smith". Curiously they never shared a scene together until Libby had been buried on Boone Hill and the boat -"The Elizabeth" appeared on the horizon during Libby's funeral.
Eloise - such a fascinating and mysterious character! Can't she just put us out of our misery and answer questions directly! lol
Maybe she really is in charge somehow as she indicated to Jack at the end of season 5?
Like in "Flashes Before Your Eyes" - noticing Eloise's broach again - could this new one refer to the 2 timelines?
I cheered at Des' last statement of the episode in tracking down all the oceanics. Something exciting is going to happen when all these folks get together. I am ready for Sideways world to end! It's just not how it is supposed to be! lol
Penelope Milton? Des' disappearing wedding ring?
What on earth is going on? Why all the mystery surrounding Penny's mother's identity in both timelines? Will Penny and Chuck Widmore EVER be in a scene together on the show?
I hope Dezmundo doesn't turn into a monster with all this EM exposure! Have to watch this episode again tonight.
Thanks Mike V.

Anonymous said...

I believe that Charlie was referring to Kate when he was talking about falling in love on the plane. I distinctly remember him talking about her hand cuffs, and I remember the eye contact they had on the plane. I think you may want to recheck that in your recap.

Mike V. said...

AUStar Wars - Did I refer to ESB? Oh yes....testing the electromagnets on Captain Solo...i made myself laugh with that one too..thanks! LOL Oh come on...those Matrix Sequels were BAAAAAD! Reloaded is more watchable than Revolutions...I will say that. And I did watch them multiple times when they came out. But in comparison to the First? No comparison. It was just so good! I have to say that LOST, to me, never has really dropped in quality. Yeah there was a rough episode here and there...but they are seeing their vision through. I think with the MATRIX...they didn't have a vision for parts 2 and 3 and tried to make it fit the mold they set forth in the first one. Kinda like Pirates 2 and 3. But whatever! To each his own. I still own all of the mentioned movies on DVD and/or Blu-ray! I still complain about The Prequel Trilogy for Star Wars (which yes are awful in comparison to the originals...and maybe just in comparison to real films!) but I'd probably still buy them on Blu-ray. Glutton for punishment right here!

All I can say about your "not enough time" argument is this: EXPANDED UNIVERSE! LOL Let other authors take a shot at it and flush out these characters with Darlton's blessing. A la the Star Wars Expanded Universe. I still think we'll get some of those answers you're wondering about. Maybe not, maybe so. But it just seems so important to the end game. Widmore and Eloise seem heavily involved....maybe if we get a Jacob/MIB backstory...Wids and Eloise will somehow be in that too. Speculation, but you never know!

We still don't know what we're supposed to believe and I'm not sure we will until the finale when we see it play out!

Interesting speculation on THE OTHERS and THE WIDMORES. Could be right! And yeah the whole KIDS ON THE ISLAND playing into the giving birth on the island could be a good connection....I think we still need to get that answer. I would hope we'd get that answer! Yikes...don't get me concerned about this NOT ENOUGH TIME business! LOL I want to enjoy the ride!

I still have to watch V, but that made me more excited now! And love the Desmond Coffee Shop speech. Good times! As always thanks for the comments! Gotta move on to everyone else now!

Mike V. said...

Going out of order here. Last anonymous - I thought I put Kate...maybe I got ahead of myself. Sometimes happens with 2 hours of sleep. I'll fix it. Thanks for letting me know!

Mike V. said...

Whoops...to anonymous again. No...he was not referring to Kate. he did mention Kate which I explained accurately. When he saw kate in cuffs he know the marshal he got scared of getting caught with the drugs...once he choked on the drugs then he had the vision of CLAIRE....(He even says she was BLONDE! LOL)

Casey said...

This may have been said already, but are we leaning towards the possibility of both timelines existing in the end?? Meaning, would we be able to see characters choose whether or not they want to stay on the island or live in sideways land?? I feel like we're moving towards one timeline wins over another, but then again, there's free will and choice, and I'm not 100% convinced everyone would choose the sideways timeline (Sun and Jin specifically come to mind)

davidsalako said...

BTW, I think Daniel Faraday/Widmore may get his heart broken again in Sideways world because we know that the sweet chocolate eating Charlotte he imagines seems pretty "streetwise" in her interactions with Detective James Ford! Perhaps this is Daniel's destiny n matter what? Maybe he can change her? Stranger things have happened! lol

Anonymous said...

Here are my thoughts, whatever they are worth!

I watched the show twice and this struck me – what if some of the other Losties (Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Sayid, Locke) as they are seeing their “reflections” that they are actually seeing their island timeline, and we as the viewers of a TV show are just not seeing that yet? Will we see each of them have a moment like we saw Desmond have? Like obviously Charlie and Daniel had?

I did think it was very odd that in two situation, there were two men who were total strangers, getting into very deep, sentimental (dare I say it, WOMENLY?) discussions about LOVE? I guess that the writers had to find us a way to get that information to us quickly as we are running out of episodes!

I definitely noticed the painting in Charles office and absolutely feel that this was an indicator that he and Eloise had been to the island! Her discussion with Desmond confirmed that to me as well.

It was a jaw-dropping moment for me when Desmond saw Charlie under water and the “not Penny’s boat” note on his hand! I definitely feel that Charlie wrecked the car so that he could cause Desmond to have a “moment” where he “felt something.” I hope we will get to see Charlie’s moment (we ASSUME he’s talking about Claire as the blonde!)

Desmond fainting in the stadium did remind me of the earlier episode a few years back where he kept jumping from one timeline to another. I don’t think he actually fainted, but he sort of blacked out (lost time and memory) for a few moments.

I just cannot see Charles and Eloise happily married. He looks like he hates her. I would think that he would have paid her off to be out of his life by now. Either she has something on him, or she has something he wants!

Sayid seemed like the old Sayid, not Zombie Sayid! Although he really didn’t have enough screen time to tell. In that scene, where Desmond freely goes with him, I think Desmond is of the philosophy “whatever happened, happened” so he is just letting fate take its course and going along for the ride!

Going WAY back -- Is it possible that Desmond turning the key and imploding the Hatch was actually activating Jughead or some other nuclear bomb, instead of it being a “catastrophic electromagnetic event?”

Overall, I thought the acting in this episode was just spectacular! Especially Desmond (he looks HOT when he’s all cleaned up!) and Eloise, and Charles too! And I do feel it will all tie together by the end!

Just an FYI, “Mr. Intimidator” his character is named Seamus, real name Frederich Koehler. He was a child actor (he portrayed the oldest son, about 8 years old, of Michael Keaton in Mr. Mom!) Gotta love IMDB!!

Cajun QT

Mike V. said...

Shawn - The last we saw Eloise in Island timeline was talking to Charles outside the Hospital where Desmond is. Maybe there was more to that conversation than we saw. But as far as we know, she did not come to the island. We'll see!
Weasel - Thanks yet again to another Captain Solo approver! I totally was trying to think how this could work as a prologue when I was writing the recap...but I'm sorry, I just couldn't figure it out either. Love the MIDlogue LOL But yeah....I don't understand what you're trying to say. The current 2007 timeline is the ISLAND timeline that we've seen since 2004 and season 1....it's the WHATEVER HAPPENED HAPPENED AND STILL HAPPENED AFTER JUGHEAD TIMELINE....how would the sideways people MAKE that timeline correct? Oh wait...are you saying that it wasn't correct at first? And then Desmond rallies the troops in Sideways land and somehow fixes the Island to make sure 2007 happens as it always was SUPPOSED to happen? ahhhhh interesting! I don't buy it but INTERESTING! LOL

Woa woa woa.....MODERN FAMILY is on Wednesdays man...you gotta get into that show. It's super fantastic! As for the OBJECT being the island...that totally make sense! Thanks for the props on the recap!

Jenny - actually, just a few posts up someone brought up the Monk/Eloise picture..it's definitely interesting! LOL And it's not a bad theory to think Eloise is orchestrating all of this. And that would make AUStarWars very happy because he might get more information on her!

1st Time anonymous - Thanks for taking the time to comment and I'm so glad you found the blog this season (wish you found it earlier!) and I'm glad it's helpful to you! No problem on the George Minkowski background! I've watched THE CONSTANT at LEAST 10 times...I don't think I could ever forget his name...it helps that I've watched Through The Looking Glass just as many times and his name is on the other side of the SAT Phone as well! There are lots of theories on the sinking Island that have been thrown out in the comments here and there. The one that I've been most attached to is somehow the island's volcano (which we've never seen) somehow being involved in causing the Island to sink. Not sure how it will all work out but maybe them messing around with all of these electromagnetic pockets is going to somehow disrupt that volcano. (btw...we learned there is a volcano on the island in season 3's "The Man Behind the Curtain" You're totally welcome on the blog!
Deebo - Definitely an interesting point that they both die in the main timeline. And Juliet had a vision of sideways when she died as well. It may not be a coincidence at all! Eloise has knowledge of the timeline as well....so what does that say? hmmmm

Jackson - Interesting - you think Penny is David's mother eh? I don't know about that. I still think Juliet or Sarah makes the most sense. Juliet for continuing the crazy Love Square in Sideways world....and Sarah just because it's well....Sarah. The timelines don't match up...as I don't think Jack met Sarah early enough to have a 16 year old kid. (or however old he is). But I don't think Locke and Helen's timelines match up the same either. I have no idea...I'm just blurting out word vomit. you could be right! LOL Interesting theory on Freewill (Sideways) vs. Fate (Island)....could be right...you never know! And wow....great last comment! Thank you!

MJ said...

Jackson - I still say that Sara is Jack's baby momma ! The show that the actress is on (Modern Family) is fiming an ep in Hawaii ! That can't be a coincidence ! And - frankly - I'll just be crushed if it's Pen. LOL

Man - this week is great. A fab Chuck and 24 on monday, a wow Lost and a second good V on tuesday. I need to rest tonight. LOL

Anonymous said...

wow!! Great job Mike.

Comment on Desmond passing out similiar to in the Constant. This would only appear to be happenning as the effects of Desmond passing through Waves of the EMF. Once the EMF source has stopped the connectivity of the joint consciencenous gets severed...they things go back to "normal".

Other items of over thinking and random thoughts:

Widmore gets a bump on the head like Jin...what?

Charlie stating in LAX that he was suppose to die--in retrospect he could have been just repeating the last of his vision of the other life.

Desmond's behavior in closing scene seems eerie as though he's possessed/claimed...

The fact that the island isn't done with Desmond means he cannot die period (like michael) until Christian/theisland punches his ticket...

This is the longest 3 days in LOST history...

The 6 days until the next episode will seem twice as long...

Mike V. said...

Man, the comments keep rolling in. I can't keep up! LOL

Alby - very interesting stuff....maybe it does make sense for them all to find their constants. If everything ended up happy on LOST, I'd totally buy into this. I even mentioned similar stuff at the end of the blog. But, this IS LOST.....I just don't know if everyone survives. Maybe though! I think I have settled on the fact that I think Hurley will definitely survive lol It would be a travesty if he dies in the end! I'll check out the link when I get a chance. THANKS!

David - You're totally welcome! Nice callback to Desmond and Libby having some coffee as well! Yeah Eloise, Widmore, MIB, Jacob - They all need to give us straight answers. And well, maybe MIB and Jacob are but we just don't know who to believe...like EVER! lol I think I missed the new broach...I'll have to check it out!

Ahh so you think Sideways is just going to end eh? could be! But I'm just not so sure after this last episode. In fact, I am more intrigued than ever about Sideways land. Especially if they regain their memories of what happened prior. Very good point about Penny and Charles never being in a scene together too. That's just nuts. And with her having all her time taken up by FlashForward, I'm not sure how much more we'll see of her!

Casey - Yeah I have no idea....I still hate the idea of them choosing which timeline they want to live in. I agree it should be one or the other. How that happens? I just don't know. But yeah...not everyone's life is better in the Sideways world. Can't wait to see where it's going. But you know what the exciting thing is now? Everyone is very interested in discussion the Sideways story after that episode instead of just harping on MIB vs. Jacob. A welcome change to all of the complaining before. It's almost like Damon had a flash of the future when he tweeted "The conversations will change" LOL

David - I dunno...I think Daniel still has a shot with Charlotte....I think we saw that Sawyer and Charlotte would have never worked out LOL Who knows if Daniel and Charlotte just touch hands...maybe a whole revelation will occur.....no idea!

italiandreams said...

Afraid I don't have time to read all comments here right now...but the rabbit is surely (also) a nod to John Updike's character Harry "Rabbit" Angstrom from the "Rabbit Run" books.
Kate

Bryan said...

@Kmike - Exactly what I thought while watching the episode. I think Widmore's schedule and Eloise saying 'Not YET' are referring to the same thing.

Lots of great comments and thoughts everyone!

Mike V. said...

@Cajun - wow, lots' of thoughts. Here we go! I don't know about them experiencing their Island vision when they look in the mirror. It just seems like they would have been a little more freaked out like Desmond was if that was going on! I speculated that maybe when they look in the mirror this is when our Island LOSTIES get a glimpse of their sideways reality. Maybe the Flash Sideways we have seen would correspond to that and then we'll see if they're on board with this timelines or not. I dunno lol I just have no idea. I did like the point that both Charlie and Daniel had died in the Island timeline so maybe that plays into them having more knowledge. Of course we saw Charlie had a near deat experience when he flashed...and Daniel ran into Charlotte his true love. So who knows? We also saw Kate recognize Jack....we saw Sawyer have a thing for Kate....Kate bumped into Jack. No idea where I'm going with this. Stay tuned for more SIDEWAYS!

Nice point on Daniel and Desmond talking about love and everything. Of course, Desmond did hear Daniel asking about Penny...so maybe that was his opening lol

Sounds right that Eloise and Charles may have been to the island in this timeline as well! We do know that Ben and Roger were there...so it wasn't always under water!

I'm not sure how much there is to speculate on Charlie driving Desmond into the water. He said he wanted Desmond to have a moment..he said "i was trying to show you something" exactly what Desmond said at the end of the episode. And there is 0% chance that the blonde woman is ANYONE other than Claire. I don't think we need to see it! lol

I agree that Sayid did seem almost normal for a moment besides the fact that he killed 3 people before telling Zoe to run. lol It certainly seems like Dez is in a "Whatever happened, happened" state of mind in that scene. we'll see!

I had speculated way back that jughead was buried in the SWAN hatch when we first saw the nuke....but I just don't know now. I guess it's possible the bomb never went off and they covered it with concrete. I don't know!!

Agree on the acting. TOP NOTCH! And nice thanks for the name! I"ve been too lazy to look him up! LOL And that is hysterical that he was in Mr. Mom!

Anonymous said...

Mike

The concrete in the hatch was the initial patch work to enclose the pocket of energy and was the true 1st incident, which then allowed them to build the hatch over top of it and tap into the source... yadda yadda, number entering, key turning... boom.

V

Mike V. said...

MJ - Agree on Julie Bowen being in Hawaii and Carlton commenting on it being a "nice thing" I wasn't going to say anything though. But since you did, it's out there! :-) Yeah...I think showing that Pen was still single is indicating Des and Penny were destined to be together in all times.

Totally agree on Chuck and 24!! They were superb. (So glad 24 bounced back for the end)....and I still need to watch V! I need rest too considering I'm working on 2.5 hours of sleep right now! lol

Anonymous - THANKS! Oh yeah...i agree that it probably only happened that one time...but it did remind me of THE CONSTANT when he fainted. Did you mean SUN instead of Jin with the hump on the head? Good point though with Widmore! Interesting with Charlie that maybe he was supposed to drown. I think he was just saying that he was looking forward to leaving THAT World so he could be with Claire in this other world. Just my thought though. I think Desmond is determined more than possessed/claimed. We'll see though! Agree that Desmond cannot die until his purpose is served, whatever that is. Does Widmore or Eloise already know what that purpose is? It would seem so! Agree it's a long wait...but after 9 month waits between seasons...I actually welcome the 6 days to reflect on an episode!

Kate - Thanks for the info. That makes sense about "Rubbit Run" books. I never heard of them! lol

Bryan - Agreed on the great comments! KEEP IT UP ALL!

Did I actually catch up? Just in time for a meeting when I'll fall behind all over again! lol

Mike V. said...

V - yes, I know that is what the concrete was for. I just was entertaining the idea that was thrown out there that maybe Jughead never blew up and that Desmond blew it when he turned the key. It's not something I necessarily believed! lol

Yankeescov said...

Hey everyone, I haven't read all of the other comments yet but it seems to me that most people I have spoken with seem to think that this new information seems to reflect that MIB did not win and the sideways timeline is the result of Widmore's doing. I feel the exact opposite. Eloise tells Desmond that he now has what he wanted the MOST, and that is Widmore's approval, at the same time we can look back to what MIB promises everyone he comes into contact with "What if you could have what you wanted most in this world" (for example Sayid saying the only thing he wanted died in his arms), and now almost all the people in the sideways timeline have what they want most in the world.

Claire - has her baby back and it is hers to raise

Jack - is a better father to his son than his father was to him, he was able to fix the problem before it became a lifetime daddy issue

Sawyer - Becomes a cop instead of a conman and has a better life

Hurley - Is the luckiest man in the world and is no longer haunted by those numbers

Sayid - has nadia in his life, even if they aren't together

Kate - is innocent (deduction based)

Ben - is able to help Alex instead of hurting her

so on and so forth. The only person I feel this doesn't reflect is Sun and Jin because obviously they aren't married and she has been shot BUTTTT then again their relationship is much much healthier than it was in the island timeline

Another reason I feel MIB wins and the sideways is a result is because Widmore says that if MIB wins then everything "as they know it" will cease to exist---new world

Finally, there are violations and rules in this new sideways world and that could be because MIB has created terms to the wishes he granted the LOSTIES...

I have more ties that support this theory but this post is long enough lol

Yankeescov said...

Sorry forgot to mention this, but I also feel like Widmore and Desmond's mission is to STOP the sideways from happening because they know it is not the real timeline and that although they seemingly get what they want the most, they quickly find out that maybe what they want the most is not what it is cracked up to be aka the old adage "Be Careful What You Wish For, Because You Just Might Get It"

Anonymous said...

I am just so confused about time! How can these two timelines possibly be related since one is in 2004 and the other 2007?! But I have some ideas floating around in my head... maybe you all can help me organize them.

- I don't think our sideways timeline has any relation to the island timeline in terms of one causing the other. I think this because: in sideways land, Ben left the island with his father (on peaceful terms no doubt) which would have had to happen prior to Ben getting shot and joining the Others. But in island time, Ben joins the Others before the Incident, and who knows where his dad ended up, so how could they have left together? So I do not think that the Jughead/Incident caused our sideways timeline.

- I do believe that Jughead detonated, but I think it just negated the electromagnetic energy that was about to be released. I think this did no harm to the people living in that time (Dharma people... I believe this only because they went on to build the hatch and do experiments) and it did something to send the Losties back to 2007 (not sure what?).

- Why does Jack have gray hair in Sideways 2004??

- Dead is dead. Maybe this runs across all time? Perhaps we will see people dying in Sideways 2004 around the same time as they did in Island time? (wouldn't make sense for Faraday though since he died in the 70s).

- Maybe the writers had not written this episode yet when they filmed LA X and the wedding ring was just overlooked.

- Since I don't think these timelines have been caused by each other, I don't think Desmond wants to help Widmore in order to get to Sideways land. Whatever they do on the island will settle the feud between MIB/Jacob and they will all achieve what they went back to the island for: to rescue the friends they left behind; then they can all go home. (except zombie Sayid and crazy Claire?!) But why is Widmore so dedicated to this island and his mission? Does he just want to be in charge again?

My brain hurts... more to come!

Anonymous said...

How could Widmore cause Sideways time? I ask this only because the producers said there would be no more time travel. So something happening on the island that would result in this new timeline would require starting over at least in the 1970's, because Ben's relationship with his father is different, and also because Jack ends up having a son somewhere in the 1990's. I agree with the anonymous above me, that one timeline was not caused by the other. Maybe just each character's conscious is connected to their conscious in the other timeline.

Gunner said...

Mike-

Great as always. I think its possible that Dez doesn't care how it all turns out. He sees that in either timeline he ends up with Penny. And therefore goes with Sayid b/c it doesn't matter. But you would have to assume that he knows he would still get his son in sideways world.

Mike V. said...

Yankeescov - I'd say that anything can still go right now. But I think what is being implied is that this Sideways Timeline may have been caused by something other than Widmore or MIB winning at the end of the Island timeline. Even Daniel suggests that it may have been jughead (if Sideways Daniel would have even known what it was called lol) I still don't think MIB is necessarily going to provide for everything he is promising. Maybe he is I dunno. But he certainly told Jacob that he plans to kill all of the Candidates!

But yeah...many of the sideways facts seem to currently support the possibility that MIB is going to live up to his promises (if it is indeed a result of him and the LOSTIES leaving the island...maybe it's just a result of all of the candidates being KILLED on the island). I like the idea of him setting up rules for them to all to follow. I guess we'll see!

Anonymous - I don't think we need to see parallel TIMES to judge if they're related. What we're seeing is actually like a side-flashback lol

- I have definitely brought up the Ben getting shot by Sayid thing a lot too...but in a different context. Jughead never detonates in sideways land...because the LOSTIES never crash and go back in time and sayid never shoots ben....and maybe in that timeline...Ben never "loses his innocence" by going to the temple. So he and Roger leave at some point for some reason (maybe the same reason Widmore and Eloise aren't on the island either). But in Island timeline it happens just like you say. That doesn't mean the JUGHEAD can't cause the sideways timeline. As we see..the Island timeline continued. Why can't another TIMELINE spawn out of it? If whatever happened happened....then there has to be a timeline where there is never a jughead that explodes. The cycle was broken...the LOSTIES don't go back. It's a new timeline.... I dunno...I'm confusing myself just trying to explain it. But it made sense to me before I started typing it! :-) lol

- Your 2nd point is what I originally thought was going to happen....since our LOSTIES Still go back to 2007. But the whole sideways thing still confuses me. How are there 2 existences? And why does Daniel think he caused it? Why would they have Daniel spout out that line if it's just going to be another thing that we find out to be untrue?

- Jack's grey hair - simple...the same reason his hair is longer than it was in 2004...the same reason Dominic Monohan has less hair. I think we're just meant to accept that the hairstyles have changed. There is no way they could have filmed Jack with a buzz-cut for his flash sideways scenes...and then have him grow his hair back for 2007 island scenes. I would guess they didn't dye his hair either lol

- I shared the same thoughts about your Dead is Dead scenarios too. Could be...we'll see!

- maybe on the wedding ring but then why did Damon Lindelof retweet it on Twitter and bring additional exposure to it? I wouldn't have even blogged about it if he didn't.

- All interesting speculation on this last one...you could be right...I dunno! lol

Mike V. said...

Anonymous - Did anyone suggest that Widmore caused the sideways timeline? Most people are suggesting either MIB caused it by leaving or Jughead detonating caused it. Considering we already see Juliet and Desmond experiencing the Sideways prior to the LOST end game makes me think the sideways timeline already exists. Which brings us to Jughead.

Of course that doesn't explain why the island is SUNK in Sideways timeline.

But I'm not sure why we would need Widmore to time travel in this story! lol

Gunner - Thanks for the props! You could be right with Des. He knows Penny is in his life either way. But yeah, he would have to assume that Charlie is still born. And maybe he would name him Charlie for Driveshaft Charlie helping him find Penny! Although, if Desmond needs to make a SACRIFICE for Widmore...that doesn't sound like a safe bet that he'd get Penny in the Island timeline.

We'll see! Great comments guys, keep it up!

Deebo said...

Eloise comment’s about a violation makes me think that she wants to keep Penny from meeting Desmond because that will somehow destroy the sideways in which her son is alive…Also Modern Family is filming a Hawaii vacation episode and that is why she was there…She could be filming Lost I’m just saying…and 24 was killer last night lol

Mike V. said...

Deebo are you mixing up Sonya Walger and Julie Bowen? LOL Julie Bowen is on Modern Family and was filming an episode in Hawaii (aka...SARAH) Sonya Walger (AKA Penny) is on FlashForward!

But yeah...I would think Eloise DEFINITELY doesn't want Desmond to meet up with Penny. I agree, for selfish reasons, she doesn't want to lose her son. She seems to be fully aware of what's going on.

Deebo said...

I was referring to MJ’s comment about Julie Bowen in Hawaii lol…So what if when the Losties went back to the 70’s they were in the sideways world? Could explain the sunken island? Richard saying he seen them die?

Mike V. said...

Gotcha DEEBO..my bad!

I guess it could explain the sunken island...but I think it might be something else yet to be revealed. As for Richard saying he saw them all die....I think probably because they all disappeared from 1977 he just assume they died in the blast. But I could be wrong! I still would really like to revisit 1977 to see the aftermath of the Incident! Just like AUStarWars said...i just don't see where the time to show all of this is going to come from!

Weasel said...

@anonymous @ 2:36pm
- Sayid never would have been there to shoot Ben so he is healed and made "corrupt", therefore he may have never joined the others

- Jack has grey hair because he is a Dad

Mike V. said...

Weasel - I like your answer on Jack better than mine! LOL

Glenn R. said...

Great episode, top 5 for sure in my book. So much to "reflect" upon. Don't have much time now, but here's a few comments. Wonderful recap, as usual, Mike!

Daniel Widmore's suggestions that things were not right in Sideways universe are correlated with the script comment we heard about a few episodes ago about Sayid's reflection in the door right before he sees Nadia as being "off" in some way.

So there may be new life to my belief that either Jughead, or "The Incident" WAS the original source of the universe splitting into Sideways reality.

Maybe we will still get the scene I suggested -- wherein at the beginning of the Season Finale, it will open with the whole leadup to the Incident, but this third time around, we'll get Dr. Cheng's point of view and actually see what happened in the aftermath of Jughead on the island itself. And then we'll realize from the events which unfold that that was the birthplace of Sideways reality.

BUT, I can't make sense at this point of how it could be Jughead/The Incident which gave birth to Sideways, yet there also could be potentially "Rules" in Sideways, that Eloise knows about! What the heck is that about? Hearing Eloise talk, I couldn't help but wonder if maybe Charles Widmore and Eloise made some sort of deal with fLocke/MIB to create the Sideways, or something? Similar to the way fLocke told Sayid he could have "whatever he wanted." So, if that were true, it would seem to support Sideways as an MIB construction. So maybe Daniel is just misinterpreting the bomb as the cause or something? OR, maybe MIB just knows that Jughead caused Sideways reality, and that Sideways reality exists, and is manipulating things there too?

Mmm, regardless of the answers, I must say I love this whole humongous detective story that is Lost!

Minor point: Couldn't help but wonder what happened to Charlie's brother who was looking for him at the police station. Was he there to play with Driveshaft at the charity event too? If so, where was he during this episode?

Gotta run for now. More later.

Richard said...

Is it possible that both timelines, island and SW have a common point from the time of the Jughead explosion and the 3 year difference is related to the timeframe the Losties spent on the island?

Bryan said...

@Mike V. - You said "Anonymous - I don't think we need to see parallel TIMES to judge if they're related. What we're seeing is actually like a side-flashback lol"

Although I agree it may not be necessary, this season has led us to believe that the events in the two timelines are concurrent with scenes switching back and forth when Sun hits her head and such. Whether it is necessary or not, after reviewing Daniel's diagram I think the two narratives really are happening simultaneously (2007 island timeline and 2004 sideways timeline).

The dotted line at the bottom of the diagram says "space-like". In space-time theory, space-like interval refers to events that are happening concurrently and where one cannot be caused by the other. See Wikipedia. The point at the top of the diagram's triangle in Daniel's explanation would be when the atomic bomb was detonated and the two sides, the different timelines. One of those sides takes longer to get to the 'space-like' dotted line and probably represents the island timeline (now 2007) and the other, the sideways timeline (now 2004).

This may be silly but I even measured the sides of the triangle the best I could and they seem to match this explanation. The left-hand side is 90% as long as the left-hand side. 27 years (# of years from the incident to 2004) is 90% of 30 years (# of years from the incident to 2007).

In my explanation, the label on the left-hand side of the diagram that says "Real Time" is just a label for the y-axis of the diagram and NOT for the left-hand side of the triangle (since Daniel is saying that their true existence is not the sideways timeline).

Could be totally wrong, but had fun anyway :).

Glenn R. said...

One more thing, and I guess this could involve a spoiler. But it's not a spoiler about what will happen in Lost, it's a potential spoiler about a comment Damon made about the primary THEME of Lost. So, I'm not sure if that qualifies as a spoiler or not, but just in case, I'm saying this up front.


COMMENT FROM DAMON ABOUT THE MAIN THEME OF LOST COMING....


















E!Online writer Kristin asked Damon the following question:
"Is it safe to say that at its very core Lost is a love story?"

Damon replied: "You are the very first person ever to get the meaning of the show. Yes. It is a love story. Always has
been... always will be."


Interesting to hear Damon say that. LOVE certainly is beginning to play a bigger and bigger role in things. It is clearly Love that is connecting Sideways and Island realities.

Florin Milea said...

Is blog up yet? Is this blog up yet? Are we up and running yet?

What a HOLLY BIG BANG THEORY episode of A MOTHER/FATHER OF ALL UNIVERSES, PARALLEL, LINEAR AND WHATEVER ELSE!

In your face MiB/Smokey/Flocke!

More later... 1,2,3,4,5

Bryan said...

I meant "the left-hand side is 90% as long as the right-hand side."

Mike V. said...

Thanks Glenn!

Good observation on the "OFF" vs. Daniel's comments of Sideways.
Yep...definitely new life in the Jughead causing the Sideways. But I still think we'll disagree on what that means with how it works with "resetting" time.
I would love to see Chang's perspective of The Incident...and it's a good idea...but by the series finale it would seem a little "been there done that in last year's finale" to me. But I could be wrong. The coffin certainly made a comeback in season 4's finale as did the "We have to go back" from the season 3 finale LOL You could be onto something!

Definitely interesting concept if Widmore/Eloise and MIB are in cahoots....I still don't know how they CREATE the sideways though if LOSTIES have already experienced it.

I made a similar comment about LIAM (granted, in passing) in the blog. Just that it explained why he was in town looking for Charlie. But yeah..good question as to if he's still in Driveshaft and there performing with Charlie.
Richard - I really don't think that's possible...especially with the whole Roger/Ben thing I was discussing with someone above. Ben seems to have never been "CORRUPTED" or had his innocence taken away after being shot by Sayid....As this never would have happened. I think we see things that date further back in the sideways story than when Jughead would have blown up to prove that everything is not the same up until that point. But I may have misunderstood the question!

Anyway - that's it from me for awhile. I'll try to catch up on any comments later...enjoy the discussion! (yikes...just saw a lot more comments posted...sorry guys I'll get to them later!)

callmegomez said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq_SURMi1Mo&feature=related

This is in honor of Desmond last night.

JSchaf said...

Could it be possible that the "sacrifice" that Charles tells Desmond about is him having to stay back on the island to keep the MIB there? Maybe Desmond won't get his Happily Ever After?

Anonymous said...

Upon my journey home from work from the wonderful wall street, I was reading and interesting tidbit about our good friend Henry Ian Cusick on my mobile device. Apparently in real life he has a son who's name is ESAU!
I'm sure that its completely irrelevant, but it sure is interesting non-theless.

-Jackson

Bolger said...

I am always a bit late with my comments since it takes me some time to watch the episode and read the comments once the new episode is available on itunes here in Germany.

But WHOW, one of the best episodes EVER. And a great recap too, thank you very much, Mike.

I have the feeling that somehow sideways land seems a bit too much of paradise for some losties. Some feel that something is "wrong". Charlie even wants to die (Does he remember dying in the island timeline?). What if sideways is only some kind of "Matrix" for the losties and MiB/Smokey is rummaging around in the real world? lol

Anyway I definitely do not trust that b**** Eloise Hawking/Widmore. She seems the only one really benefitting from the sideways (what did she give up in island timeline?) since she is Widmore´s wife now and Daniel is alive. She is certainly up to something.

With Desmond getting the passenger list of flight 815, he is probably trying to bring together the losties in sideways land. Maybe something has to be done simultaneously in the island timeline and in the sideways timeline by the remaining candidates.

I read about the diagram in Daniels Book in some German blog, but I forgot the address. As far as I understood, it describes the phenomenon in quantum theory that under certain conditions a particle can be either at the same place at different times or at different places at the same time. The diagonal line represents the light speed, which limits the time/space shift, since no object can move faster than light. Hope I remember this right, since I have absolutely no idea about quantum mechanics.

Richard said...

Mike,
After looking at Daniel's notes it does appear they are using some elements of spacetime physics. Relating temporal(time) and spatial(distance) elements. Where this gets fun for me in this show is that points in spacetime have been theorized to be connectable(folding spacetime) as a way to travel. To me Lost has had a big leaning in the direction of being a love story for many of the characters. I think this could be important in understanding the importance of Penny being a constant and Dez's touching her resulting in effects on the island and in SW land.

Another way of saying the above is that under the right conditions for the right people the island serves as a way to connect the characters and possibly even to their black vs white selves.

Just roughing this out at this point. But it seems likely that there is a neat connection for the idea of folding spacetime for connections/movement to feelings connecting the characters.

What do others think of this linkage?

Milan said...

Great recap Mike V!!!

As I watch this great series unfold I'm reminded of the short lived series Life on Mars. (Spoiler alert). In this show a detective has an accident in late 90s and wakes up in the 70s. In the finale, as it turns out, all the people on the show were passengers on a space ship on there way to Mars. Everyone was in sleep stasis and picked some VR kind of thing to occupy their brain while they slept. What unfolded in the series then was this cops view of what life was like in the 70s however, he was cognitive he was from the future but didn't know how he got stuck in the past. As it turns out at the end of the series, everybody is revived as they land on Mars, and the whole show was a dream sequence. Sheesh.

Ok that was rather long winded. The point I'm getting at - could this be a dream sequence for a bunch of interstellar travelers (or some such). Something may have been gone bad with the VR or whatever mechanism such that alternate dream sequences could be played out. Jacob could be the captain of the ship. MIB the computer system trying to self correct. Eloise a programmer of some sort. Desmond a software agent that can 'creep' between virtual software worlds. And so it goes.

There had to get it off my chest.
Cheers
MilanV

Anonymous said...

I think that the island time line may be the "black stone" where all of the losties have pretty bad lives
and the sideways timeline may be the "white stone" where their lives seem to be better and maybe charles is on the island(probably via Jacob talking with him) to intersect the two time lines to balance it out? yin and yang?
and if the man in black got off the island, they couldnt intersect the two time lines to balance it?

i think i'm really just rambling on here, but it just came to me while reading your blog, i figured i may as well throw it out there, cheers


-Derek

AUStarwars said...

Per my chats with mike: I have a theory to run by u but I'm driving. I think hurley is the alt Jacob. Notice HE set every side ways on the path.  Lockes job. Drsmonds bag claim. There are others I can't remember. Driving

Anonymous said...

meant merge not intersect, my bad

-Derek

Anonymous said...

Just a HUGE thanks for your recaps and all of the great conversations/ideas they bring forth. I look forward to your blog each week!

Mike V. said...

Hey Guys, just letting you know I've been reading all of the comments, but I'm going to try and take some time tomorrow to get some of my responses in. I'm very exhausted from the minimal sleep on LOST nights LOL So I'm gonna rest my LOST thinking muscles and come back ready to theorize tomorrow!

Thanks all for the major props on the blog as always! And for anyone that thanked me....you're totally welcome as always! Keep up the great discussion!

davidsalako said...

Des: How do you know what I want?
Eloise: Because I bloody do!

lol!

gnni4 said...

BRILLIANT!
AUStarwars said...
"Per my chats with mike: I have a theory to run by u but I'm driving. I think hurley is the alt Jacob. Notice HE set every side ways on the path. Lockes job. Drsmonds bag claim. There are others I can't remember."

Anonymous said...

Neinth Time Poster (NTP)


Aloha from Kaui – enjoying spring break with the family and less the 100 miles from that mysterious island we all know and love.


Whoa – Last week I wished that we would see the Silver Fox (Eloise), Faraday, and that other time traveling freighter guy; and boy, the writers did not disappoint. The implications of intersecting Desmond with all these three characters are significant. First, it confirms that Desmond did indeed blow himself into the sideway world in Flashes Before Your Eyes; second, it shows us that the Widmores, just like the other Losties, were also blown into the Sideways world after the Incident. Unlike the Losties however, the Widmores are fully aware of their alternative realities and posses the ability to manipulate both worlds until their Intersection. Note how Widmore had to accelerate the on-island schedule because Desmond met Penny ahead of schedule off island.


Keeping with the theme that the Freighter People, are in the “know” when it comes to the Losties in the Sideway World, this is how I see some of the characters assisting Desmond.

Faraday – Desmond is Faraday’s constant. So in addition to Faraday’s love connection at the Museum, the presence of Desmond will unleash Daniel’s brilliance as well as his island memories, causing him to provide Desmond with the requisite scientific info he needs. Once again, Faraday is playing the role of a tragic hero. By helping Desmond, Daniel is signing his own death warrant.


Mirkowsky – Unlike Desmond, Mirkowsky could not find a constant. By helping Desmond, Mirkowsky will finally find his Constant (Desmond). Murkowski knows that Desmond is looking for things, that’s why one of his first question was if he needed female company – he was referring to Penelope, not the ladies of the evening. (I know it’s a stretch, but what the hay.)

The Widmores

Since the beginning, the sideway Widmore’s have been devising a strategy to intersect all the Lost worlds. Widmore still despises Desmond; he’s just using a different tact. He keeps Desmond well paid, busy, and over - traveled in an attempt to keep him away from Penny. Meanwhile, the Silver Fox represents the biggest threat to Desmond. Regardless of what timeline or reality, Eloise has always controlled Desmond’s life. She told that monk to banish Desmond and either she or Charles hired Libby to give Desmond that boat. Eloise’s motives are not spiteful, they are maternal. There is no greater tragedy for a mother than accidentally killing her own child. As you stated Mike, Eloise knows that Desmond means death for Faraday; she’s just trying to prevent him from perishing. There is no love more special than “mother’s love”, after all.


Regarding Keamy and Jin

Keamy never intended to kill neither Jin nor Sayid. He wanted the money from Paik, but he would have placed Jin and Sayid on ice for Widmore.


Many Mahalos Mike Its time to teach the kids how to surf…….

April411 said...

Hi Mike,
Great blog again! This is my second time posting but I just want to throw a few things up to see if they stick. And I apologize if I am repeating anyone's comments. I did not read through all of them.
So here's my questions/theory... Eloise knew at a very young age that she killed Daniel. If what Miles said to Hurley back in the day that what happens always happens nothing changes, then she knew and lived with this for the rest of her life. I would think that a mother's love would be strong enough to try to change that incident in whatever way possible. Also, she has a big bankroll behind her in Charles Whitmore. I think she has followed the island and the happenings throughout her life. She could not act to change things until her life played out and Daniel hit the age of his pre-determined death. (Also, that is why she pushed him into quantum physics and not let him pursue his true love music) She needed him to find a way to change things. I think whatever is suppose to happen she knows what it is since she lived on the island. However, if she wants to hedge her bets she needs to have Charles Whitmore (her husband) go to the island to help in whatever would put her world straight. I mean the loss of her child by her own hand has to be a horrible existence. If it was me I would try to move heaven and earth to get that to change even if it was an accident. So, I think she will be pivotal in the final play out on the island... What do you think? I know it is probably nuts but I just had to get this out to someone!
Again, thank you for all you do for us Losties.. You are great!

Glenn R. said...

Hmmm, yes... interesting comments about Eloise. Now that I think about it, she would have been present during the Incident as well. If it were indeed true that Sideways reality resulted from Jughead/The Incident, and that in fact reality did split into two at that point... then it really does make sense that she would be one of the only people in the world to understand what was going on -- because she had Daniel's notebook.

So, let's say she figures out that they are actually in a Sideways world, and, as April411 suggests, takes it upon herself to do everything in her power to support the continuation of that reality -- because in that reality she doesn't have to send her son back to be killed by her own hand. Perhaps she knows all along that this Sideways world wasn't really meant to be, but she is so attached to having Daniel safe that she ignores her own wisdom about "whatever happened happened" and enlists Charles to her team, to help preserve it.

Of course, a significant problem with this theory comes in with her comment to Desmond about a possible "violation" [of the rules?] And also her implication that the Sideways world is the place where people's deepest desires are met (i.e. where they all live "happily ever after." Where in the heck would those two things have come from?

I'm not sure how to fit in these last pieces, but now I can see how the rest would fit quite nicely into my previously-shared beliefs about Sideways Reality resulting from the Incident.

The interesting thing here... is that in this model, both Jacob and MIB would exist in both realities too. I can't help but think that the two of them probably would have known all along that both realities existed. And now the original Island timeline MIB/fLocke is using that knowledge to his advantage.

Maybe he and Jacob both even know that ultimately, the universe WILL course-correct the two realities. Maybe they even know how. And again, that knowledge may be the big MIB wildcard, which allows him to make all these promises to the Island characters.

But on the other hand, he's probably going to kill all the Candidates anyways, so maybe his promises are all hollow lies.

Fun stuff, in any case!

So I'm going to stick to my belief that Darlton will open the finale with the scene on the island in 1977 immediately following the Jughead Incident. Only now maybe we'd even get to see Eloise and Widmore in that timeframe too, and see the true orgins of the Sideways world! ;-)

Glenn R. said...

Imaginary Time

One of the phrases in the diagram that Daniel drew the night he saw Charlotte that he showed Desmond is "Imaginary Time."

The same phrase showed up on the diagram that Cesar pulled out of the file cabinet on Hydra Island right after the Ajira crash during the opening of the Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham episode. (screenshot here: http://www.shiftingparadigms.com/ImaginaryTime.jpg)

This inspired me to look up "imaginary time" on Wikipedia. Description as follows:

--From Wikipedia, below--
Imaginary time is... used in cosmology. It is used to describe models of the universe in physical cosmology. Stephen Hawking popularized the concept of imaginary time in his book A Brief History of Time.

Imaginary time is difficult to visualize. If we imagine "regular time" as a horizontal line running between "past" in one direction and "future" in the other, then imaginary time would run perpendicular to this line as the imaginary numbers run perpendicular to the real numbers in the complex plane.

However, imaginary time is not imaginary in the sense that it is unreal or made-up — it simply runs in a direction different from the type of time we experience. In essence, imaginary time is a way of looking at the time dimension as if it were a dimension of space: you can move forward and backward along imaginary time, just like you can move right and left in space.
--From Wikipedia, above--

At this point, I'm not sure what it all means -- except that it seems fairly obvious that they are hinting that Sideways reality is an Imaginary Time reality, wouldn't you say.

Anyone know anything more about modern physics?

Glenn R. said...

More on Eloise

Hmmm, in a quick rewatch, I just stumbled on the scene with Christian talking to Locke after he descended into the well, right before he leaves the island. Christian tells Locke that he will need to go and find Eloise Hawking, to find out how to come back.

It's been my assumption all along that Christian was actually Smokey in that scene (although not necessarily in every scene). If it was Smokey, then there is some evidence here linking him to Eloise Hawking. After all, I don't think MIB would send John Locke to see her to help bring him back to the island if he wasn't convinced that Eloise would help bring him back. Which might (or might not) imply an Eloise/Smoke Monster connection of some sort?

That is certainly another possible explanation for why Eloise seems to know so much, in both realities.

Florin Milea said...

Do not take Wikipedia for a reference. I heard that some of the info there is not academically sound and other facts been misrepresented.

Imaginary time is a man-made postulate to piece together parallel universes since time and space are as such related. The problem with is that is all pure speculation since no real, factual scientific substantiation exist. Basically the writers of the show do imaginary things, imagining peoples, events and actions to put together the show. You imagination creates imaginary times, events and characters. However, all those do happen in areal time and space, the one you're inhabiting.

Then do keep in mind that even those sciences are quite speculative. How do we know that outside our imagination that been, more then one reality or universe exist besides the ones we're inhabiting?

If Eloise and even Withmore are willing to sacrifice Desmond so they can correct their mistakes, I hope they perish in hell. I Don't Care About a Mother's Love, they have no right to sacrifice another human especially unwilling one.

The poster of the Christian and Locke event in the well does bring a good point. I don't have the dvd to watch it again but my memory says he's right. Locke was already possessed and had to be for a long time even before the jughead and the hatch imploding.

And what was this with Withmore saying that Des was the only human to have survived a catastrophic amount of EMP? John Locke, Charlie and Mr Echo were in the hatch as well when it imploded.

Peter said...

Liked the recap Mike, there was a lot going on in that episode! One thing that struck out to me that I'm not sure if you covered or if its been covered in the comments. It was when Desmond and Charlie went into the water. Once Desmond went down to save him and it resembled the part when Charlie died ,the first thing that came to my mind was that it was Charlies destiny to drown. But he only did this because of what he witnessed while almost dying..Is this just a conincidence that it resembled the island existance or did the writers work it in to give us the image of "not Pennys boat". Not sure If I'm explaining what I mean well, but I found it interesting.

On a side note I defenetly thought it was one of the best episodes of the season. Trust Desmonds episode to be noe of the best, the best actor in the show IMO.

Mike V. said...

Wow, lots to respond to again, I'll do what I can before work but I'm gonna be pretty busy today! It may be a lost cause of catching up but I'll try my best!

@Bryan - I guess you could be right with the simultaneous timelines....but I really think it's all for dramatic effect and storytelling. In the long run, I'm not sure that it's going to matter if it's happening at the same time or if it was 3 years apart or not. I don't think we're going to see 2007 of the Sideways universe....it seems like it's going to happen a lot quicker. LOL on measuring the triangle though! Good stuff! The info on Space-like is all interesting and stuff and maybe when we get our answer to what Sideways is...you'll be dead on! I guess my point is....it probably doesn't matter if it's simultaneous or not. But maybe it does!

@Glenn - yikes you posted a few books! (i'm one to talk!) lol So, that's the big secret Kristen has been keeping on her conversation with Damon eh? I guess she was free to post it after this episode aired. We'll see how it comes into play! I'll get to your other posts in a bit!

@Gomez - Nice Video BROTHA!!!

@JSchaf - On the idea that Desmond's sacrifice would be staying on the Island....could be...but I think that's what the Candidate's job is! I think Desmond's mission will be more in destroying Smokey and it may cost him is Island life and possibly his sideways life....but I have no idea! (i will change my mind on this every day until we get an answer!)

@Jackson - Nice on Cusick having a kid named Esau! LOL I really hope that the big reveal on MIB's name is NOT Esau....all of this build-up for something we already guessed? If that was the name, they should have just told us in the season premiere! lol I think it will be something else!

@Bolger - Thanks for the props and you're welcome! So you're suggesting that Sideways is more like the MATRIX 1....instead of the LOOPS they introduced in Matrix 2 and 3 right? lol Yeah, that used to be the theory of what the Island was! Everyone was drugged or plugged in somewhere and the Island was an imaginary experimental playground. I never bought into that because I would have hated that they ripped off the MATRIX. But for Sideways? eh...maybe i could buy it! But yeah it certainly seems like some of the people in sideways are starting to sense that something is very OFF in Sideways land. I can't wait for Des to start informing the LOSTIES to see what they decide to do! Your information from the German blog sounds good to me! I'm not a quantum mechanics expert either so sounds pretty scientifically sound! (science based fiction of course!)

More to come!

Richard said...

Mike,
Do you think the Losties and others exist in two different times AND two different places, simultaneously? ie, there are two Jacks's, two Widmore's, etc? Where's the second Eloise?

It's hard to buy into the dead is dead idea and yet Sun is potentially mortally wounded, but no effect on island world.

In past episodes of temporal and spatial travel, there was only one of each character. If there were duplicates, I can't remember.

Mike V. said...

@Richard - I agree that Desmond/Penny touching and the Love Connections seem to be of growing importance to the existence of Sideways vs. Island time. As for Folding spacetime! Like I said to the above poster....it's all very interesting and sounds good to me! LOL

@Milan - Thanks for the props! Don't worry about the Spoiler Alert I'm never gonna watch Life on Mars lol (of course I can't speak for everyone else) Oh yes...the "it's all a dream" theory and the "the island is a spaceship!" theory LOL Sounds like some kind of merging of those ideas. I know you didn't say the Island is the spaceship but still! I just don't think there is going to be a big twisty reveal at the end of the show where we see people waking up on a spaceship....or we see Walt and Aaron playing a video game with the LOST characters on the screen (it was all a game!).....or we see God and the Devil come to the Island and pick and choose who goes where (It's purgatory Y'all!!!) The whole VR idea sounds a lot like the MATRIX theory too that I mentioned above that has been floating around since early on the show. I, personally, just can't get on board with the idea. But others definitely have. All I can say is that we'll see!!

@Derek - Metaphorically speaking...I can see where you're getting at with the black and white stones representing Island and Sideways respectively. Of course...the irony is...the Island timeline is the timeline where Jacob has summoned everyone to the island (the man in white)....kinda makes you wonder doesn't it?!

@AUStarwars - Yes we did chat offline, and I apologized then for bursting your bubble that other people had also mentioned the "Hurley is Jacob" theory in Sidewaysland. It definitely could be....he's helping Rose, Locke, Desmond...whatever...But I still like to think Hurley is Hurley! We'll see!

@Anonymous who gave the big props! You're welcome and thank YOU for reading!

@David - loved that line!

@ginni4 - AUStarWars, you have a supporter! LOL

@NTP - Ahhh thanks for rubbing it in our face that you're in a tropical paradise! Don't be taking any hands of strange men dressed in black! I don't think this episode confirmed at all that Desmond was in Sideways land in FLASHES BEFORE YOUR EYES. It's a totally different existence. I mean, the simple fact that he had a life with Penny and that Widmore hated him PROVES that FLASHES was time travel in Island timeline. Looks like you're also going with the theory that the Sideways timeline is in TIMELY sync with the Island Timeline. But here's the thing: Desmond met Penny in sideways "AFTER" Widmore accelerated the schedule. If you want to get technical!

Still an interesting theory that the Freighter folk are in the know. We'll see! You know who we haven't seen in sideways land yet? Frank Lapidus! What's that all about!?

As for the Widmores - yeah...they do seem to have some knowledge on what's going on here and they seem to play a very significant role in things. Even Widmore's comment to Sawyer about him knowing so little is cause for speculation.

Yikes more comments, gotta move on!

Mike V. said...

@April - Thanks!! Yep all true with Island Eloise and her pushing Daniel to fulfill is destiny of being killed on the island...pushing him to learn as much science as he could in the process to hopefully find a way to break the cycle. I don't think it's nuts at all....i think that is what we're all meant to be thinking! Eloise wanted her son back....in sideways she has him...and she is STILL in the know on what is going on. There isn't many other ways to look at it! LOL You're totally welcome on the blog....and please...don't feed my ego with all of that me being "GREAT" talk! :-) But thank you very much!

@Glenn - Eloise WAS present on the Island during the Incident...she helped Jack and Sayid get the bomb with Richard...and then Richard knocked her out and took her somewhere. WHERE? No idea. And yes...Eloise had Dan's journal which explained why she knew so much...I don't think this has been a question. (Except the fact that she knew about the guy with the red shoes getting killed in Flashes Before Your Eyes....just makes no sense why that would be in the journal!) And like I said to April...it makes sense that she is aware of the other timeline and doesn't want people to ruin it. Yeah...we don't know what the VIOLATION comment means...or what her telling Desmond that he's "Not ready yet" means....so I guess things could change. But Eloise definitely seems to know a lot...she even knew DESMOND's other life...not just her own.

Yes the one thing we definitely haven't seen yet is if Jacob and MIB exist in sideways...that could be an eventual big reveal. We still need to learn how that crazy island is under water! LOL

As for the Imaginary Time stuff - all great information! And to Florin - Yes, Wikipedia is not the best source for ACCURATE information but as far as speculation for a Fictional TV show...it's just fine for me! LOL

As for Christian being Smokey in the Donkey wheel scene - yeah...Ive been assuming that too....which makes it very interesting that he said to talk to Eloise. Very interesting indeed.

davidsalako said...

Interesting regarding Lapidus not yet appearing in Sideways world plus he never really had a proper flashback either - at least pre-oceanic 815 crash. He is a bit of a mystery.
Another oddity is that I noticed that Francois Chau, who plays Pierre Chang is never credited in any f the episdes he has appeared in on the show. Efen in season 5 where he had an expanded role. What's all that about?

Mike V. said...

@Florin - nice summation of Imaginary Time and the Imaginary Writings! lol

Agree on Eloise/Widmore...if they're willing to sacrifice Desmond for their own personal gain...not right at all!

Good point on Locke, Charlie, Eko being in the hatch.....but DESMOND was the one that turned the key. He had direct contact...yeah I know we're talking just a couple feet away...but probably for the sake of the show we need to follow this line of thinking. PLUS, Charlie, Eko and Locke are dead! LOL so technically even if they survived the event...they didn't survive in general....so what Widmore said was true....from a certain point of view. (oh thank you Obi Wan Kenobi!)

@Peter - Thanks for the props! Yep...very interesting...I did comment on the "near death experience" potentially causing a flash of island land....similar to Juliet dying on the island and seeing her sideways self. But it does seem like there is more to it than that. LOVE seems to make the connection too. (ha...LOVE Connection)....and possibly just WATER itself! Agree that it was a great episode...and easily one of the best this season...and the series! but Constant and Looking Glass still top my list forever!

@Richard - I can't really tell you what I think on that one because I have no idea....There does seem to be 2 versions of the characters though...But Boone is walking around just fine in Sideways land...Daniel...Charlie.... 2nd Eloise is off the Island we think...but I have no idea. But the consciousnesses (maybe too many s's) seem to be linked between the 2 versions of the characters...so I have no idea what that means!

In past seasons with time travel...there was only ONE instance of characters....if they moved back in time....they could have run into themselves but never did because IT NEVER HAPPENED that way. (i guess you could say that means there were 2 versions of them but it was still the SAME person...just in a moment of the past for the present version...whew...headache!!) I'll have to think more about this 2 versions of them in 2 different lives thing though.....but it may be too much for my brain to comprehend!

And with that...i'm late for work again...gotta go folks..thanks for all of the comments and keep it up!

Bolger said...

I don´t understand this, but just for the record here´s the diagram from Faraday´s Book explained:

http://www.quantonics.com/Einstein_Minkowski_Space_Time_Diagram.html

It´s an Einstein-MINKOWSKI Diagram. Love this.

It´s a similar explanation as in the German blog mentioned before.

Bolger said...

Sorry, messed that link up, here it is again as TinyURL:

http://tinyurl.com/2x8rbn

Glenn R. said...

Maybe Eloise made her own "deal with the devil," similar to the ones fLocke has been making with losties this season. e.g. Sayid.

It's not hard to imagine a scene where MIB asks Eloise in 1977 what is the thing she wants the most -- of course it would be to have her son back. In fact, that was the very reason she helped Jack get to Jughead to detonate it in the first place! So, she has already shown us that she will go to dire measures to try and bring Daniel back. Her actions in 77 seem like ample evidence that saving Daniel as being a powerful motivator for Eloise!

And just to speculate: What if MIB told her in '77 that he could bring Daniel back, but there would be a price to pay -- perhaps to become the "sideways reality cops" -- that keep track of the Losties and make sure none of them get close to finding out the truth.

This is more far-fetched, but what if Eloise (and Widmore?) were now in L.A. because that is the optimal location for them to be in order to keep track of all the Losties in Sideways and make sure none of them get too close to discovering the real truth about the two timelines -- the price they had to pay to get Daniel back.

Lots o' speculation, but... who knows -- it's at least somewhat plausible. :-)

MJ said...

Sorry if this is posted already - very good interview on tvguide.com with the actor who plays Desmond. A little spoilery/hinty for those avoiding. But - OMG - it comfirms the mirror thing. Yay!

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Losts-Henry-Ian-1017019.aspx

Richard said...

Glenn,

I think the Lampost has always been in LA.

Also, hope to see Juliette in the coffee shop soon.

Mike V. said...

@David - Yeah I tought the Lapidus thing was interesting too. Never realized that Chau was never listed in the credits. Kinda nuts! LOL

@Bolger - I took one look at that page and my brain started frying LOL It's good stuff though! Just understanding a vague idea of the concept helps to clarify the sideways timeline I think.

@Glenn - Very good point about MIB possibly having made a proposition to Eloise. I agree with Richard that Eloise was always in LA...i don't know how the Lamppost came up in tht discussion. But even in Desmond's flashback and in Daniel's flashback...Eloise was always in Los Angeles. As for Widmore being in Los Angeles...i think the answer to that would be the same of why EVERY character is residing in Los Angeles. And maybe you're onto something with them being POLICED to some extent. Whoever is in the KNOW about the sideways may be keeping tabs on these Sideways LOSTIES. I dunno....i can't wait for more information! LOL

@MJ - I think I'm gonna cave and read that interview...I can't avoid em all! LOL I'm curious to what it would confirm with the Mirrors though...unless it's more info on them....they are clearly in each sideways episode! LOL

BTW - The following may be a little spoilery but I just find it fascinating for speculation. It has to do with something from the SCRIPT for HAPPILY EVER AFTER (yes according to Jorge Garcia and his Girlfriend Beth on the Geronimo Jack's Beard podcast):
*************************************************



In the script....they explained the bright white light emitting from Widmore's EM Field Chamber should resemble the SAME LIGHT that surrounded the Island before it MOVED at the end of season 4. Hmmmmm interesting, right?? I don't want to get into a discussion that maybe they weren't actually time traveling in season 5 though...that doesn't make sense. What is even more curious...I remember that Darlton went on record after season 4 saying that the light at the end of season 4 was NOT THE SAME as the Purple Sky that we saw at the end of season 2!

CALL ME CONFUSED! LOL But I guess what it does kind of make us speculate is that Widmore is trying to recreate on a smaller scale what the Island is capable of doing with its unique properties. Maybe??? I dunno. All this pseudo-science talk baffles me! But it intrigues me all the same!

Oh well...I'm off to a day of meetings. I'll post when I can!

Anonymous said...

Tenth Time Poster (TTP)

Aloha once again Mike, Regarding Lapidus, I just figured that in the sideways world, that Frank was flying flight 815 and that the sideway losties will draft him to fly back to the island. One thing that I forgot to mention is that Daniel's scientific friend is most likely Pierre Chang.

Any thoughts on Widmore's gang on the island being the second version of the Dharma Initiative. I always thought that Charles ordered the purge, but mabey he was exiled because he was in cahoots with the original Dharma folks.

Geez, what am I doing, it's 4am in the morning and i'm thinking about this stuff.....

Mike V. said...

@MJ - thanks for sharing that link. That was an awesome article!

@TTP - I'm sorry but I have to do this... I guess being up at 4AM in the "morning" is better than being up at 4AM in the "Afternoon"! LOL (sorry, I do it to everyone!) Actually, we hear Seth Norris's voice come over the loudspeaker (the same guy that gets eaten up by the monster in the PILOT ep) during LA X. The actor who plays him (greg grunberg) confirmed in an interview for HEROES that he was doing some voice work for the final season of LOST. Good times! Now maybe he will fly them back to the submerged Island...if that's even a possibility! Good point about Daniel's friend being chang.....but then again that was at Cal Tech.... Miles says his father works at a museum with Charlotte (Pierre Chang is Miles's father)

I guess it's possible that Widmore is part of a Dharma RE-Initiative LOL I dunno. Maybe he was in cahoots with them.....but he was definitely exiled by BEN for not being a TEAM ISLAND PLAYER.....he always left the island and led 2 lives. (one on and one off....even having a child off island, Penny)

Okay...really going to my meetings now!

Mike V. said...

Btw I totally messed up. Flashes before eyes was definitely in London. But faraday was raised American do Eloise had to go there at some point! Even though he went to oxford and all lol

on phone so I'll have to think more about it later

Anonymous said...

I agree that Eloise is the key to just about everything! I think it was April411 that posted that Eloise or Charles hired Libby to give Desmond the boat? This is the first I have heard of this, is this a theory or fact?

Poster Anonymous NTP - interesting theory about Widmore actually hating Desmond in the sideways world, and keeping him busy traveling so he won't meet up with Penny. He is treating him like they are close friends. You know what they say, keep you friends close, but your enemies closer!

Milan - your comment about Life on Mars. Loved that show until the last episode -- I was so disgusted that everything was just a dream of sorts! If they do that with LOST, I will never again watch a show by Cuse & Carlton! Surely they know we've invested too much of our lives in this to screw us over like that!

Here's something out of the blue. Does anyone remember Daniel Faraday crying when he saw on TV that Oceanic Flight 815 crashed? I never understood why he was crying -- any thoughts?

Thanks - Cajun QT

Mike V. said...

Cajun - I think I actually missed april writing that about Eloise with Libby and the Boat. I think that is pure speculation. We never got that information on the show.

As for Daniel Crying...I don't think we got an answer SPECIFICALLY to why he was crying...but we did learn that after intense experiments with time travel...his mind is swiss-cheesed. So maybe seeing the Fake 815 footage triggered something in his head... I'm gonna have to revert back to THE VARIABLE blog to see what I said then. Widmore definitely comes and visits him though and recruits him to come to the island to heal his mind (and obviously to play out other events such as Eloise shooting him!)

Mike V. said...

Here's what I wrote in "THE VARIABLE" blog last year:

"Daniel can't seem to get his mind off of the crash. He is so sad that all of the people are dead. Charles ends up unveiling to Daniel that the passengers are not dead and that what is on the news is all part of an elaborate and expensive cover-up. And we finally certifiably learn that Charles Widmore was the one that planted the fake plane. Perhaps we should have confirmed it after Miles getting information from the dead guy, or should have believed it from the clip show narrator last week. But now we have it straight from Charles's mouth. Why did he tell Daniel? Because he'll never remember.
"

The Variable Recap It's all under "The Faraday Flashbacks" and then "Island Recruitment" section

Man...who knew I was so organized!?! LOL

Mike V. said...

LOST Slapdown Episode 11!

Nothing really revealed, not that they ever do...but it was a good time as always!

Anonymous said...

Mike - thanks, I forgot about his brain being swiss cheeze. And yes, you are organized! It's called OCD, and there is medication for it! Cajun QT

Mike V. said...

LOL...yeah for real! If only you could see my desk at work. I'm only organized in things that matter. LOST and my DVD/Blu-Ray collection LOL (alphabetized)

But hey, I'm glad you brought it up...i forgot why he was crying too!

mj said...

What seemed odd/weak to me was that Widmore is so afraid of pissing his wife off that he sends Des to tell her that the rock star isn't showing up ? 1. that's really wipmy 2. Charles has to know that sending Des to his house could lead to Des and Pen meeting and Charles has to know that that should not occur. I have to assume he knows with Eloise knows and is in agreement

MJ said...

I'm still reading yesterdays comments LOL Damn users actually wanted me to do work for them yesterday and today.

So let's see - in the island reality Des is in a monastery and meets and falls in love with Pen, daddyW hates Des, they take a pictue on the marina and Des dumps Pen and joins army, realizes he still wants pen tries to impress daddyW and Pen by wining solo sail race and lands on island where he's given the important job of saving the world.

Drunken Des tells Charlie and Hurley what happened to him after the explosion - he saw himself buying an engagement ring a woman who is Pen's step mom tells him no, you won't marry her and you'll go to the island. it's your path and the only important thing you will ever do.

We never actually hear island Des SAY that he went to buy a ring, nor does he state that until the explosion where he shares the memories that 'flashed before his eyes'. We only see him supposedly have that memory after the magnetic explosion. So - do we know that those are even real memories ?

LA Desmond is successful, seemingly happy. DaddyW likes Des alot. He meets a nutty guy who causes them to drive off a pier into the water, has some oxygen missing for awhile and has a vision or 2 that seem like memories (not Pen's boat on Charlies hand) and flashes of a woman named penny. Happens to go to bosses house to see his wife and overhears a caterer say Penny Milton, bosses wife freaks - tells him to stop looking, not time yet.He finds her and asks her out.

I don't know where I'm going with this - but what is true or not true in his visions is puzzling me and I'm thinking there is something key there. Like maybe it's not a real memory? And Eloise in one version is sooo insistant that he has to go, has to do this and that. Yet the other verison she's all like - you wanted my husbands approval and you got it, now run along and forget what you heard today - it's not time yet. Like the original was all about her time table and no choices, yet in the LA one it's about Des having a great life and getting what he wants - then it's his time.

Again - don't know where I am going - but this just won't go away in my head. And sorry this wound up being so very long !!

Mike V. said...

MJ - first post, no idea if Widmore is in on everything in sideways land. But it's a good assumption!

2nd Post - Desmond actually never recounted the events to Charlie and Hurley. We just flashbacked to what happened to des when he turned that key. The whole episode ended up being a time travel within a flashback. Des turns key...then all of a sudden he wakes up years prior. That was actually Desmond RELIVING his past. He wasn't witnessing it from an outside perspective. At times he remembered things from his future. (hence the flashes of the future) He kept saying "i remember this" in the episode. The producers confirmed right after that episode (when we were speculating if it was fake vs. time travel)...that desmond actually went back in time and experienced that.
Anyway..when he returns..he goes to the hatch and finds the picture and prays that he can go back and swears he'll do it differently this time. Later when Charlie gets drunken.Desmond back to his tent or near it...Des tells Charlie "my whole life flashed before my eyes"....and then something to the extent "the flashes never stopped" So anyway...that's my wordy way of saying...yes we're meant to believe they were ACTUAL memories. It was just a new method of showing some of Desmond's backstory. Just like the time traveling losties in season 5 was a new way to get more history of the island from a different perspective.

I'm not sure where you're going with it either but I'll try to add to it! lol One version of Eloise is in the Island timeline where she is pushing Desmond to go to the Island. She wants to make sure he stays on his path and the only truly good thing he'll ever do. It was all in the journal! She wants to save her boy! NOW...in Sideways land...it would seem she has her way. Daniel is alive and she doesn't want anyone to ruin that. So she gets frustrated with Desmond looking for love in saying that he already got the thing he always wanted the most. That last bit is speculation because we don't know what her motives are for the Sideways land because we don't truly know what it is yet!

No problem on the post being long...like I said earlier today...I'm the last one to accuse comments of being too long! :-)

Glenn R. said...

Or, maybe Eloise cut a "devil deal" with MIB, and Richard cut his own deal with Jacob! Not sure how that would have worked, but wouldn't it make some sense that both Jacob and MIB would have their operatives out in the non-island world, and that there would be rules by which they have to play?

could that possibly explain the rules b/t Ben and Widmore?

It could explain why Widmore wasn't particularly happy to give Desmond the contact info. for Eloise.

Also, they'd be playing those roles in both Original timeline and Sideways timeline.

Mike V. said...

It's possible Glenn!

Only thing I don't know about is it explaining the rules between Ben and Widmore. Ben seems to be aware of those rules there (in the season 4 off-island scene)...yet he had never met Jacob nor had he known what the smoke monster was.

Maybe Ben couldn't kill Widmore simply because the "island wasn't done with him yet" either...as we see...he is back on the island now fulfilling some obligation for whomever....Jacob, himself, something else???

Still want to know what is going on with Christian Shephard. Like when he appeared to Michael and said "you can go now"....i just can't think that was Smokey. When he appeared to Jack off island and possibly on island in season 1. can't be smokey all of the time right?? Even if the smoke alarm went off in the hospital lol I know i know...we won't get these answers until probably the finale...but that scares me if we have to wait that long...i could see me just waiting for it to happen in those last 2 hours and then it's all over and i'm like "ummmmm...wait a sec! but what about? no....no....NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!" LOL

Mike V. said...

btw...i realize probably half of that made no sense...always the sign of a good LOST episode when we can't even make sense of our thoughts!

Glenn R. said...

Funny article by "The Sports Guy" who imo is the sports world's equivalent of Doc Jensen, and is a big Lost fan and has written and podcasted about the show. It's about his favorite basketball team (Celtics), which references some scenes from this season of Lost to make an analogy to basketball...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100407&sportCat=nba

Mike V. said...

nice, I'll check it out. I love the Sports Guy...been reading his stuff since 2001. And his podcast is hysterical too lol Thanks for the link!

Richard said...

Is it significant that Sawyer saw the "rules boy", does not seem afraid of Flocke and understands he needs a sub to leave? It seems that Dez is not afraid of Flocke either. Certainly Widmore seems respectful but not fearful.

Which makes me wonder two things
1. Is Sawyer special in his ability to know what's going on?
2. What's up with Flocke/Smokey, not the fear we had in past seasons?? Even after what he did in the Temple. I don't really like this version which doesn't seem so BA.

Mike V. said...

Richard, didn't Sawyer tell Kate he IS scared but he is just good at pretending he isn't?

Now, Desmond, you could be onto something with him! He seems to know exactly what he needs to do. We'll see!

As for your feelings on Smokey...I guess just like every other character, once we start learning some of their backstory...it changes how we view them. I still think Smokey is just as "BA" lol But the last couple seasons when we saw him coming on the screen we were almost rooting for him.....in season 4 he took out the freighter crew...in season 5 we wanted him to rip off Montand's arm! LOL And well...come on...when he killed all of Jacob's people in the foot...it was awesome! The temple stuff was just creepy....it was a good time. But, we now have to learn why Smokey is Smokey...so it'll definitely change how we view it.

Just like how we changed our views on Jin, Sawyer, Ben, and many other characters over the years! Smokey is a character too! LOL

I'm just rambling now...off to bed!

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - You’re welcomed on the summation. I have a gift in making the hard things easier to follow, translating academic into plain English. And to think that I was told that my communications skills are not as good as one would like from a job applicant, a little inside-house joke.

Okay, you’re right about the sake of the story line and a even better idea form you about those guys been dead already and Brother Desmondo/Des/Desmundo turning the actual key. Very good points I didn’t thought about it. I was thinking more in line that they were still protected by the cement walls and blast doors, although considering the hatch door flying over to the beach camp, oh boy.

Now I am thinking that Desmondo’s unadulterated love for Penny also helps. Could it be possible that at one point or another, Jacob must have touched Des as well? How can I otherwise explain the radical stuff he’s going through with all that energy?

And the water is coming into the picture. Those scenes with Charlie and going back to the looking glass episode, water all around. Jacob forces Ricardo in to the ocean’s water - water-boarding the guy to prove to him he’s not dead, Sayid’s attempt for rescue, Charlie’s baptismus of Aaron and Flocke’s violent reaction, even the wheel is in a whole in the ground with frozen water to a certain extent.

Florin Milea said...

I don’t want to get into another thing here, It Could Be A SPOILER ALERT - although not Lost related.


but JJ Abrahms also produces ‘Fringe’, and in this weeks episode the touching thing is explored whereas a person can modulate his/her personal energy and transfer it to another person by touch for either good or bad reasons. Einstein believed we humans are Energy as everything else, so did Tesla and the early Cathar Christians in So France in the very early 1000 AD. I guess this comes in congruence with the Hatch, pockets of energy, etc. Also do a google on keywords Haarp Project, Alaska. This is a Military project using high energy to alter the ionosphere with spectacular results such as a purple sky and more. The military were expelled from the Dharma initiative. End Spoiler.

Florin Milea said...

Correct me here, is it Withmore or Widmore? I think the second is the real name of our Charles but I keep getting confused.

Florin Milea said...

As with parallel universes, there’s got to be two of the same person in two different places, sideways, but the consciousness is one and maybe that’s where the mirrors might come in the picture. What I think is that for lack of better name, imaginary time lines are the sideways where the ‘what if’ is the motivator in a different lane, while this episode is a alternate scenario within the same timeline, the real one in the same lane sort of speak. In this episode I think we were shown what if Flocke would’ve got away with his scheme but Charlie and Des flipped that on its head. Yey... and I say this because somehow everybody besides Des got what they wanted, except for that naggy feeling that is not right and the mirrors and reflections somehow calls all that into question. Sawyer breaks the mirror because his subconstious says he’s not the real one in this time line, Jack remembers the house where he didn’t had a such a plesant childhood, I’m just assuming here.

@Glenn R - Your suppositions are quite correct as we know it now. There’s no other better explanation to Eloise’s conduct as we know so far and that makes her a bi*** in my opinion. No wonder I didn’t liked much from the first episode she’s been in. I don’t like Claire, Locke and don’t even get me started with why I don’t like Smokey no matter what’s his story.

@MJ - hey no problem i would say. Many of us are still awake at 4 AM and 4 PM studying this episode or that other and many times we don’t know where we’re going either.
What’s a real memory and what’s imaginary is up to what time line you want to pick up. That’s the clue to imaginary time, is a piece We’re putting together even if it wasn’t there. That’s the beauty of parallel universes, it gets confusing because only one line is the real one, but is hard to establish which one is. Maybe that’s why Love is important. What good is it to have the life Des had, if the Loved one, Penny, is not there. That’s the whole point I think with Charlie and Daniel showing up to show Des the real life he’s supposed to have.

Mike V. said...

Hmmmm....who did I suggest was dead Florin? I throw so many ideas out there I can't keep track! lol

I wouldn't doubt it if Jacob touched Desmond. He's the one that "BRINGS" people to the island according to MIB...so it would make sense.

Yeah there's definitely a lot of water on the show...of course...it IS on an Island! LOL But, considering Damon did throw out that hint so many weeks ago, it's been making us try to tie everything to it. Can't wait to see what they have in store.

So, I can't read your Fringe stuff because I'm a few weeks behind. I'm planning to "ATTEMPT" to catch up this weekend. A daunting task though since I have like 7 or 8 to watch lol Once you fall behind it's hard to get back on track. But I've heard last week's episode was outstanding. Anyway, I did get an email from someone trying to compare LOST to Fringe because they're both JJ Abrams. I think for that very reason alone that this Sideways Land will end up being different than what they have going on in Fringe. And when this season started, I was surprised there weren't more comparisons to Fringe off the bat. Of course, we don't know how much JJ Abrams has been involved with constructing the mythology of LOST as it has evolved over the 6 years. When they planned their end game at the end of season 3...Fringe hadn't even started yet. So, I guess it's possible that they're the same. But to avoid comparison I would think they would be doing something different.

Then again...I did hear rumors of a cameo appearance by a certain FRINGE character on LOST. I won't say who because I have already said too much! (unless it was the other way around!)

btw...it's WIDMORE

Are you saying that you think Desmond's sideways story is a DIFFERENT timeline than the other ones we have seen? Other than that blasted RING he was wearing on the plane....it has to be the same timeline. They set the wheels in motion at the end of the episode for Desmond to expose the Sideways/Island timelines to the LOSTIES. I don't think they would try to confuse us with 3 different timelines....but that's just me! Then again, I may have misunderstood you lol

I think in the end there will be only one timeline. You do say that only one timeline is real, so maybe we are on the same page...but in Fringe...there are definitely 2 Universes. And I know i'm a few episodes behind, but I didn't figure they'd be trying to merge those 2 worlds.

Anyway, I'm rambling again lol I'll stop now!

Jessica said...

Does anyone have any thoughts on the fact that Desmond said to Charlie, "Why because none of this is real?", when they were in the car right before they drove into the water? I know it was mentioned in the blog and it seemed like Desmond was being facetious, but I thought it was a big "hint" to all of us viewers.

Mike V, I get the impression you read a certain TV Guide interview with a certain time traveling character, based on a comment you said earlier. LOL... I read it also and found it very eye opening it really helped me clear up a lot of confusion I had about Ep 11.

Mike V. said...

Jessica, I keep going back to Darlton's comments that both timelines are "REAL" Do you know how many times they have referred to the ISLAND as "NOT REAL" too?

I have no idea what it means still, but I have accepted that they're both real and somehow they're going to intersect lol

And yes, MJ posted the link to the TV Guide interview in the comments and I totally read it! :-)

Candidate said...

Like most everyone I have given alot of thought on this episode and it's taken me a while before I was able to read the blog. Luckily my transmission did NOT go out this week and was able to watch the show in realtime. Whew! Most of my thoghts have already been posted. Poor Charlie...just wait until he meets Crazy Claire and sees that she isn't the same Claire he saw in his vision when he "Felt It." Although Claire in SW Time is the Claire that we all love I have this Crazy feeling that signals will get crossed and will meet with Sqirrel Mommy herself. I had the treat of expanded special fx with a major electrical storm happening outside my windows while Desmond was getting "Tested." It was pretty synced up to the rhythm of the scene. Good Times. I Like Eloise. Don't Think she's a B----- just because she knows it all. Remember Jack was the one that offered Ellie the deal. "What if I told you that there is a way to make this so none of all this happened" That is not an exact verbatum quote but we all remember that scene in Season 5. If no other answer is revealed LOVE is the answer and love is STILL the answer would be the most important answer of all. It's nice to know that is the case in the Lost universe as well.

Maybe Mild Spoiler Alert Maybe
*******************************















As far as the ending TPTB have promised us a REAL ending and that it wont be like it was all just a dream or blank screen like The Sopranos finale.










******************************


I hope it's OK to post this here.
Thank you Mike for an excellent insightfull Recap. My vote is Wow Wow Wow

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - The dead suggestion is on the facts that we know them at this very moment, this season that is, Locke, Charlie and Echo are dead. So the dramatic effect, the convenience writing or the imaginary thing is highlighting Des with the key and the Love thing as why is he special. No problem tough, you caught the substance so there’s nothing to worry, you’re right on the money.

Okay, now the timeline. Yes it is the same time line but I think that the flavor of this episode is like a sideway flash that happens on the same main timeline, like a juxtaposed thing.

I had a long post but I edited as this: We’re both on the same page with the time line. My personal impression after reviewing the ‘Flashes before my eyes’ episode is that the technical, style execution is different. On the other side stories we were given different cones for different ice-cream flavors and the transitions were at times quite distinct. In this episode they mixed smoothly all flavors in one cone. That’s how I see it.

As with the timelines, both been real, I still have a problem with. Maybe I am stuck in the classical mechanics, Newtonian ones, but even the Einstein's versions have big problems. If one timeline is real, all the others have to be false readings. Charlie and Daniel makes in my opinion that point very clear. ‘This is not the life we’re supposed to have’ and I paraphrase here. I could go on a scientific diatribe here but it would make the post too long to read. Yes, a point is just that, slide the point - you have a line, slide the line - you have a surface, slide the surface - you end up with a geometrical figure. The Euclidian rules applies even to quantum physics. Fringe is about parallel universes as you said and they function independently and very well. They may intersect on occasions so we don’t quite escape that even there, but both timelines been real just doesn’t cut it for me. I could be in Los Angeles in a dream and doing all the things I like, but the reality when I wake up is the one I live in and the real one.

In this ‘Fringe’ episode, I was referring to the idea of the ‘touch’. The character touches people by shaking the hand and the person touched gets in trouble. I don’t want to spoil it for you. It looks like a thing borrowed from this Jacob thing, the fact that Flocke reaches his hand to the ones he tries to recruit etc.

‘Fringe’ is nothing like ‘Lost’ although it is outstanding in its category. Some of the themes seems to have a few common points, but the artistic execution is different.

I would still like to know why didn’t Flocke kidnapped Sun when he had a chance.

Florin Milea said...

@Candidate - Eloise is not the b**** if she goes with the common good for everyone. But is she’s holding back from telling all she knows so she can get her son back no matter who gets screwed, than I am sorry, she’s the b**** and a criminal of sorts. If she knows so much, why did she shot Daniel to begin with? What good deal was he messing up for Eloise with the jughead?

davidsalako said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
davidsalako said...

Harsh words describing the enigmatic Eloise Hawking/Widmore!
She is a great character and I do not think her motivations are regarding just the love of her son. She knows and understands something about whatever the bigger picture going on is. She seems to be a natural leader and very smart to! Charles Widmore has been just as frustrating in being forthcoming with answers and isn't being called names! lol
Eloise is clearly in the know in both timelines - not so sure abut Charlie Widmore in Sideways land. So far, Ellie is the most consistent character in both realities. I think she just has a deeper and greater knowledge of all the temporal rules and constants which make her come across as cold and aloof. Kind of like Jacob!

Florin Milea said...

@davidsalako - Do not worry, I wasn't fond of prior Widmore, Ben, Michael and others, no more than I am fond of today's Claire or Flocke.

She may be seeing the bigger picture, she maybe a leader, but please so far she doesn't have any redeeming qualities like Michael or Ben or even Widmore.

EJ said...

Not sure why, but a potential final scene just flashed into my head as I was reading comments: Jack and Flocke are on the island, sitting on a rock looking out to the ocean, mirroring the scene where we first met Jacob and MIB. They are having the same conversation Jacob and MIB were having when the Black Rock approached (everything else is just progress....). I think that would be a fine, existential edge to the tale!

gnni4 said...

The problem with being wiser than others is that you can come across as being a bi***, or a know-it-all...or maybe just mean.

Wisdom is gained from experience and knowledge, not from intelligence alone.

I am looking forward to more information on Eloise!

Florin Milea said...

@gnni4 - Back at you baby. You just proved the point at your own expense like looking into a mirror. So do be smarter next time around. Eloise is a fictional character, enough said. But the rest of us are real people and your smart a** lecturing could be a problem.

Plus, wisdom = knowledge + understanding + intelligence + experience + many things of character including mutual respect

So if you have a problem that many posters here are better than you, simply move on.
Here we're just advancing theories, crate a hypothesis and follow up. In other words this is a place for smart people.

Florin Milea said...

@EJ - That is an ending perhaps worthy of the topic and the nature of the show. However; Wouldn't that be a no ending in itself? The way I see it is that tending would be just progress, meaning that we're stuck in the circular, spiral pattern one poster advanced as a real scientific theory and that might mean that there will be yet another Richard/Ricardo, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc. who will get screwed up in the never ending cycle of the island.
Considering the fact that the island in the LAX episodes is under water, sort of eliminates this kind of ending.

On the other hand, this ending would be most welcomed if the network and the current writers/producers plan to bring back the show at one point down the road.

EJ said...

Re: Christian is Smokey at Donkey Wheel, which makes Eloise Hawking a MIB member -- it was John Locke's mention that he was seeking out Eloise Hawking that triggered Ben to suddenly murder John. Before that, they were talking and Ben was working to get John to go back with him. On the other hand, Christian also told John he would have to die for the island (that's why it's called a sacrifice ... or some paraphrase like that!).

Also, didn't it strike anyone else as odd that the birthday photo of Ji Yeon on Sun's camera last week had a "Happy Birthday" banner IN ENGLISH??? That little girl is being raised in Korea and speaks Korean with her mother on the phone.

Florin Milea said...

@EJ - You reminded me that sacrifice for the island did included Locke or Jeremy Bentham as he was known in that version, thank you.

Also thank you for the fact that now I see the assassination of Jeremy Bentham in a new light I haven’t seen before. I don’t have that dvd season yet, but I remember now that something was off about that because Ben said; I’ll really miss you John - or something along that line. Now it makes sense. I wish we would know if Eloise and Ben had prior knowledge of each other. This would suggest they did.

As Christian been a MiB member along with Eloise does make sense. One problem I can’t figure out, is why did he made himself known to Jack so many times? In one instance the ghost of Christian led Jack to the caves and the source of water. That would indicate Christian would have been working for Jacob, unless MiB/Smokey had a version of Jack for a Flocke, only that Jack proved to strong for Smokey/MiB to manipulate and went back to his old client he had claimed already, Locke.

Now that you mentioned, the banner would be interesting, unless this is not unusual in South Korea. It would be a no-no for North Koreans even if they would be allowed to travel.

Anonymous said...

gnni4 said...
The problem with being wiser than others is that you can come across as being a bi***, or a know-it-all...or maybe just mean.

Wisdom is gained from experience and knowledge, not from intelligence alone.

I am looking forward to more information on Eloise!



Florin::: i think you are taking this as gnni4 is talking about you? she is talking about eloise's character, ALL of it is about eloise, not you. She is not somehow "lecturing" you or being a "smart a**" in any way.

lets keep this a nice blog, because i don't think she was doing anything but theorizing with the rest of us.

Mike V. said...

Yeah i don't have time to comment to everything right now but woa florin....I totally agree with anonymous. Gnni4 was not attacking anyone just stating why she thinks Eloise is coming off the way she is.

Totally agree with keeping the peace on the blog. We had an outburst by a certain commenter in season 4 and haven't had many issues since. (granted that was entertaining!! Lol) anyway we are all here for the same reason. Lost speculation. So let's try like Erasure to give a little respect to each other (how about that for a flashback?lol).

This has been a public service address by your lost moderator: mike v.

Namaste!

davidsalako said...

I for one am curious about this "sacrifice" that Desmond has to make. The one that Charlie Widmore alluded to. So far on the show, these "sacrifices" have been deadly - Boone, Locke, Charlie, countless Others...
Also kind of an interesting twist that MIB's pawn Locke was responsible for creating the Swan Hatch implosion and EM event that created the new Desmond. The "weapon" that is now apparently going to be used against MIB.

Courtney said...

a few thoughts and questions after rewatching Happily Ever After:

What "deal" was Des closing for Widmore in Australia? and What kind of business does Widmore even run in SW land? i was trying to look for ANY clue in his office building but didn't see anything.

charles says "if I don't get this junkie to my wife's event she will, simply put, destroy me" just speculation here but those are pretty harsh words. i don't go around saying, "if I forget to deposit my husbands paycheck, he will destroy me" ...lol hmm.. is this charity event and the fact that charlie should be there important to the scheme that eloise (and possibly charles with her) is manipulating? probably not, who knows.

my husband theorized that charlie's lack of personal safety (i.e. walking in front of traffic) is because he is already aware (on some level) that he has already died in the island timeline, and therefor 1)won't die in this timeline or 2)just isn't scared to because of it.

charles has the black and white scale painting on both side walls of his office. just thought i'd bring that to light, probably doesn't mean anything.

very interesting writing in the des/eloise conversation:
eloise: "Oh of course Mr. Hume, Charles has told me so much about you. It's a travesty we haven't met before, (pregnant pause) it's about TIME."
the last few words with a smirk on her face, as if it's a joke only she understands. haha! i get it! lol

it's interesting if Eloise really is doing all this secretive stuff to make sure she keeps Daniel alive. because Daniel is doing the exact opposite by telling Des exactly how to find who he is looking for. ironic.. in other words, the son she is trying to save is potentially killing himself (if that theory is true, i just think it's a theory =) )

i LOVE the music and the build up to the last line of the show, "i want to show them something" CLASSIC!

sorry so long!

davidsalako said...

@Courtney - I concur with your observations, the look of initial shock on Eloise's face when she saw Desmond and her quick recovery was priceless to! Charlie Widmore is going to get an ear full when he gets home and perhaps another deftly delivered slap? lol!
Also wondered if jolly millionaire Hurley is involved in this charity event that Eloise is organizing?
The background music and purpose-laden look on "re-born" Mr Hume's face was fantastic. I applauded much to the embarrassment of my family.

Mike V. said...

Okay I have a little time to address some comments now. Here we go!

@Candidate - So you think Sideways Charlie is going to meet present day Island Claire eh? Interesting lol I'm not ruling it out, but I just never pondered Claire's sideways self specifically. I guess I thought more on the side that if the claire consciousnesses cross...maybe she could become UNCRAZY again lol Guess we'll see! Nice with the storm ambience for the ElectroMagnetic event! lol I'm gonna leave the Eloise B____ comments off the table for now. I think you all have covered it! LOL Good point about Jack telling Eloise about the way to make it so none of this happened...which was actually information from Daniel...which is why she pushed Daniel towards Science of course. And yes....LOVE seems to be a big part of all of these universes...Harry Potter, LOST, well...that's all I can think of for now! LOL But pretty much anything we watch circles around a love interest of some sort. It's what people connect with!

I don't think that's a spoiler btw...I do remember Darlton saying after the sopranos finale that they would never end LOST that way (although they did love that ending lol)

@Florin - Okay, I'm gonna pick and choose again from your comments lol But since there's some directed at me I'll start with that! I gotcha on Eko, Locke and Charlie being dead...i forgot i mentioned that! LOL

I still don't think "Flashes" was a sideways story...and I think you're implying again that it was lol Granted...they may both have been caused by similar circumstances...so it IS interesting to consider the implications.

You make a good point about Charlie and Daniel implying this isn't supposed to be their life. Which is actually IDEAL for most losties probably....because we want to know that the timeline we've been following for 6 years is the one that matters. I dunno....i can't really argue any further than what Darlton implied...that both timelines are intended to be real...but will intersect at some point. But I get what you're saying...how can both be real? It's a good question....and I don't quite get how they both could be either. lol

I'm catching up on Fringe this weekend...watched 2 eps last night, gonna try and watch a few today and tomorrow and be caught up! (5 to go!) Definitely love the show and definitely agree it's different than LOST.

As for Flocke not kidnapping Sun. He makes the point that he won't make her do anything....it has to be her CHOICE. And CHOICE is the big thing we've been hearing all season (as well as Jacob saying it in the finale last season)....everyone has to choose their path. I just hope they don't have to choose Island vs. Sideways in the end. I still don't like that idea! lol

Mike V. said...

@EJ - Yeah, lots of people are with you on that being the final scene. I still don't like it. I still like Jack's eye closing to the the final shot of LOST. When I think of things coming full circle...I take it back to season 1...not the season 5 finale. So if we want to mirror a scene that happened on LOST....I would say Jack's eye opening on the Island would be the scene to mirror. But eh....what do I know? lol

@ginni4/Florin - now that I'm reading all of this stuff again....something probably got misinterpreted as "LITERAL" here. (i.e. the word "YOU" used to refer to people in general and being a metaphor for Eloise Hawking....and "YOU" not meaning to be directed towards anyone commenting on the blog.) I knew what you meant though! LOL And I too am looking forward to more information on ELOISE! Anyway, Florin, I would appreciate it if you don't tell any commenters to not return to the blog! gnni has been around for a couple years now reading this blog and commenting and I think she provides great insight. I look at this as a misunderstanding and we should all move on!!

All opinions are welcome on this blog. No one has to have a physics degree to join in the discussion. I certainly don't!

@EJ - with Christian at the Donkey Wheel. Ben murdered Locke because he needed information from Locke on how to get back to the island. And once he got it...he murdered him. Because Ben never was a really big fan of Locke's....since Locke was there to take his place as leader of the others. Ben desired power and he wanted it back. Good point about Christian mentioning Sacrifice.

Yeah...I have heard stuff about the "Happy Bday" in english banner. Great point....i'm sure it was just something they hoped we'd overlook....because how would we be able to interpret Korean to know it was Ji Yeon's bday...yeah party hats and a cake probably would have done it...but I think we gotta let this one slide!

Florin - considering Ben became an OTHER when Charles WIdmore and Eloise were on the island....I'm guessing they knew each other. Of course...it really depends on when Eloise left the island. I'd love to get that story...and I hope we do...but with so little time left, I just don't know!

Mike V. said...

@David - nice referring to "Sacrifices The Island Demands" That's an ol season 1 throwback! I know you didn't say those exact words, but it made me think of it. But I am very curious as well what Desmond's sacrifice will be. I speculated yesterday at work with someone that maybe whatever Desmond will have to do will cause him to become a pillar of black smoke and he'll be stuck on the Island lol But i would certainly hate that ending! Des and Penny forever!!!

@Courtney - I don't think we need to know what Widmore's deal in Australia is...i think it was just an excuse to get Desmond on the same plane as everyone else. Interesting speculation on charlie walking through traffic. I just thought he had a death wish...or WANTED a near neath experience to SEE IT again. (see Claire again...see his other life)....."all that matters is we saw it" Nothing else does.

Yes, i mentioned the scale in the blog as well. What I didn't mention was that the scale was BALANCED. hmmmmm Does this mean that Sideways land is depicting a timeline where good and evil are BALANCED? eh...i dunno lol

Yeah...good times with Eloise's line...that one was good and the "Whatever Happened Happened" line was a good time too. They're almost thrown in there to indicate she knows a lot about what is going on! Which is pretty much what you just said so don't mind me! (seriously...i read from sentence to sentence and comment as I go lol )

As for Eloise keeping up with the facade to keep an existence where her son remains alive. Yeah...that's certainly what it seems like she's doing. I just wonder about those couple lines she said to desmond about VIOLATIONS and "you're not ready YET" Sounds like everyone was meant to be brought into the KNOW at some point. Also sounds like Desmond is going to make this happen ahead of "SCHEDULE" (or as Widmore says it..."SHHHHHEDULE!" LOL

Michael Giacchino's Music has been top notch for Lost for 6 years....the man won an oscar for UP this year but he deserves an EMMY too! lol Only the best for my fellow Holy Cross HIgh School alumnus!

@David - interesting idea that maybe Hugo is involved with the big charity event. That certainly would be an interesting way to keep Eloise in the picture in future episodes.

Never be embarrassed about applauding LOST! It's totally normal! LOL (in certain lost addicts blog circles of course)

Okay...all caught up! Keep up the great discussion folks!

Anonymous said...

Interesting you mention Charles W's accent, I can't work out where he is supposed to be from? Not sure it really matters though. Eloise is clearly British but Charles goes from Australian to British to American and back again, probably just Alan Dale's background though. I still see him as Jim from Neighbours lol not a reference for the Americans probably!

I am not sure I enjoyed the episode as much as everyone else. I love Des centric episodes and he is probably my favourite character but this one was a bit confusing and I felt they perhaps should be giving more by now. Nevertheless, this blog helps me a lot so a big thanks Mike V. I shall continue to trust that there will be sufficient explanation from Darlton to come!!

Matt

davidsalako said...

I remember Alan Dale from "Neighbors" back in the day to! When I lived in England. It is so funny to see him play such an imposing and intimidating character on "LOST". I think Charles Widmore is supposed to be English. His accent does segue from New Zealander to English to vaguely American. lol
Alan Dale does a great job.

Anonymous said...

Eleventh Time Poster (ETP)

Hello from a beach hammock, overlooking beautiful Hanalei Bay,

Given from what we have learned this season, detonating the nuke only partially worked. Instead of erasing the Losties footprint on the Island as was intended, the nuke created two worlds with some bleed over. This is where the Widmore’s come into the picture. Eloise is supposed to prevent the bleed over until the appropriate time. Unfortunately, her husband’s deliberate actions led to Desmonds’s encounter with Charlie, which in turn, led to Des’es encounter with Daniel, which in turn led to Penny.

Daniel and Charlie have two commonalities; they both fell in love and died on the island. Those two mega-events have resulted in the sideways Charlie and Daniel flashing over and causing the Violations - by guiding Desmond. Conversely, Sun was never suppose to be with Jin in the Sideways world, that’s why she did not go back into time with the others. So the Universe will “course correct” and kill off Sun in that respective world.

Just like all the Greek Tragedies – no matter what choice you make, you can never escape your fate.


Mikowsky

Mikowsky actions sure mirror those of Abbadon in last years Bentham episode. I hope the writers don’t emulate Desmond’s sideway mission with that of Locke’s last year. I will use my legendary Jedi mind trick powers to prevent the writers from doing this!!!


Aside from Kate’s derriere, Eloise’s hair is the most prominent of female attributes of all the lady Losties……that’s some great hair…….

Courtney said...

@ETP: hahahhahahaha!

Candidate said...

Hmmm great call on Hurley being part of Mrs. Widmores charity event posted by David. Other wealthy people come to mind such as Boone Carlyle and maybe even Shannon although maybe not. All of the people working for Hugo or the temp jobs he hooked up for our sideways characters may also come into play. The (confidential) guest list looked pretty large. Rose,Locke and i bet a few other characters that we know,,, but don't know yet... may have also worked for Mr Reyes (make sense??) They also might be on the guest list. Other thoughts on the invitations to the charity event.
Spinal surgeons i bet have some $ to give to charity. Perhaps we will see the return of Dogen as he too was "well-off." Sayid being a rep for an oil company could qualify him being on the guest list as well.

Mike...I think the business (that Des was sent on) in Austrailia may wind up being important to the story but we will see. I have another crazy feeling that Paik Industries will come into play as having financial interest and investments to the Island. I'm thinking that Mr. Paik and Mr Widmore are in cohoots OR are Rivals. Of course we know that in Island Timeline Sun owns most of the stock in Paik Industries. The meeting with Sun and Charles W. in season 5 showed a gutsy move on Sun's part but Charles had this all knowing look like "Oh dear she is soooo naive" Very much Like the same look when he gave his comment to Sawyer in Recon "...It's a pity how little you know" (not verbatum)

Eloise Hawking I still believe that she is out for the greater good and not for selfish reasons such as her screw-up on Daniel's life. Remember the line "...Or God help us all." ALL being the key word. The character is so mysterious that we may never find out who's team she is on.

And speaking of Teams...some major dysfunctions are coming into play within the teams. Team Jack and Richard will probably divide (Richard wants to destroy the airplane, Jack wants to use the plane to keep his promises to Sun et al) I could go on about the conflicts going on in both team Jacob and Flocke camps. Plus There's Team Widmore who's mission is unclear and probably not sided with Jacob per se.

I had some other thoughts but not sure how to put them in writing. LOL so TTFN

Florin Milea said...

@Anonymous - If gnni4 would had just put it; ‘Eloise been wiser...’ I would totally agree with you and Mike V on this one. I’ll admit, I was the first one to use the ‘b’ word with respect to Eloise because that’s how I see Eloise at this point.

So let’s chalk it up under a miss-communication here, I apologize to all for my reaction. I have been victimized in one grave instance during my life in corporate America by a bad, covert, velvety, veiled, glove-on tangential attack, a costly one to me, so forgive me if I am naturally sensitive about it.

Florin Milea said...

@davidsalako - Perhaps that’s how Smokey/MiB will learn ‘careful what you wish for.’ But your point is well taken, so far this island demanded tooo many sacrifices for my own taste, and it’s not done yet? auch... lol -that looks more like genocide, and I might be right considering MiB saying he'll kill all.

Florin Milea said...

@Courtney - I like your question about the deal and we don’t know many things like it. As a matter of act, I do not remember one instance all throughout the span of the show where we’re told what business Widmore is in, nor we’re left with a clue about it. W do have the sail ship, the balance, the scotch but that’s it.

The ‘destroy’ remark might mean that Widmore was under her slipper sort of speak?

Your husband is on to something there with Charlie. After seeing the whole episode, I would suggest that Charlie was tempting fate by going into the traffic to prove himself that something is off with that life perhaps?

Eloise doing the works as she does is what gets me against her. Again, a classic case of ‘careful what you wish for’ and she should know better about the universe correcting things, which I think is what going here and working right against her. Maybe she’s to caught up in keeping Daniel alive and misses the point.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - Thank you for the clarification with Widmore, I owed you that one, and thank you for Reminding me about the Choice thing. I totally forgot about haven’t seen that one coming. So Flocke have some manners after all? WoW, and this is the first time I say that about him. Of course we know his hidden plans.

Flashes not been, yes you’re right. That’s why I set the ice-cream cones artistic style of mix-and-match hoping to make myself clear in the artistic style of making the scenes as they were.

Your take on Ben and Locke as the leader thing is good. I am then left wondering again, why would Ben really miss John after the killing. Ben seemed very sincere in that scene. and if my memory holds well, it was the first time I’ve seen a real Ben and to be honest, that’s when I moved him in the ‘maybe a good guy after all’ category and I started to think seriously that he could’ve been another victim of manipulation.

@Anonymous - I think Charles W accent is more Scottish or Irish, but I could be wrong, I always confuse them. Good points on the rest, however - Didn’t they just used the detonator of the nuke to collude with the energy pocket? I remember the nuke when it was hanging in the wood structure back in time when Daniel saw it first, and is Big, while the thing Juliet crashed on the rock look rather very small.

@Candidate - As with Eloise, I give her some credit with the; You’re not ready yet, as in; Let me decide on the proper course of action, so I can get my Daniel back and then you can get Penny. If that’s true, then she’s a good gal too. And you’re right about the list of guest at the charity and Paik could be there too. I wonder who’s the beneficiary of the event?

@Davidsalako - I was so emotionally involved throughout the episode, I couldn’t contain my excitement.

Candidate said...

Oh I just thought of something else. I just got excited!! O.K. back to Desmonds business trip. I will have to rewatch the ep but when Rose and Bernard went to that healing place Down Under (Another 80's FB) I am pretty sure that this place is connected to the island like a vortex. One side is a positive and the other a negative energy force. Not good and evil but like on a battery positive side negative side. Intake and Outake. I am speculating that this place is where Desmonds business meeting may have taken place and I think it might be another division of the DI.

Glenn R. said...

So, I'm not really sure why it is so hard to think of both realities as "real."

If you take the position that Sideways reality came into existence at the Incident - which split the universe into two (and I'll continue to defend this until proven otherwise)... then we now have one universe where Jack, Kate, Hurley, Juliet, Sayid, Sawyer, Miles all were course-corrected back to the future to 2007, and another where the universe continued on the path it had been going -- but with changes. Given that, how can you tell the baby Miles, and all the young versions of the Losties who were living in 1977 that they are not real? They are every bit as real as the Original Timeline characters. It's not their fault that their universe changed on them by unnatural means.

Until our two realities are course-corrected / merged back to a unified reality, to me both sets of characters are equally and validly real.

Admittedly some theoretical biases in there, but I'm stickin' to 'em for now, baby! One of these days when I'm feeling writeful, I'll take another stab at addressing your counter-points, which have not changed my perspective on it. I still feel like this model of the origin of Sideways explains everything we've seen.

Glenn R. said...

@Courtney. Good observation about Widmore's comment to Des about Eloise "destroying" him. I had noticed the same thing but didn't get around to commenting on it. I actually interpreted it more as while Charles & Eloise are married, it is not a marriage of love, but a marriage of purpose. In other words, he's married to her, but not necessarily out of choice -- but rather that they have some purpose that has brought them together. Meanwhile, their relationship is as conflictual as ever, and as much of a power struggle as ever. My perception, without much to back it up. (But I also like your interpretation -- that there might be something EXTRA special about this charity event.)

I also agree with your husband's thoughts about Charlie's character intuiting that he's not supposed to be around since he died on the island. I thought the same thing from the moment he displayed a an anti-life proclivity on the airplane after Jack saved him. Of course, now we know a little more about why he was cantankerous, but who knows.

Fascinating idea -- that, instead of the police station as the meetup point for all the Losties in Sideways reality, maybe it will be the charity event. I like that a lot. With a little stretching, I can come up with some excuse for every single one of the Losties to end up there (some with a little stretching!) Kate is the hardest to connect, but maybe Sawyer and Miles will be transporting her somewhere when they get called to the charity event! :-)

Hey Mike, it might be time for a poll about what ending people think we're going to get on Lost... (the eye closing, the conversation on the beach, etc.) :-)

I'm going to say it again -- We really NEED a Widmore (and now Eloise) backstory!!!!!!! Please please please Mr. Darlton!
;-)

Kim said...

Just adoring this season even though I am so sad to see it all go. I loved this ep, so so moving, I was in tears a few times. Love LOST.

davidsalako said...

Yes please Team Darlton - we need a Charles and Eloise back story - we are running out of TIME - please put it n your SHHHEDULE - like say in the sure t be awesome finale. Hopefully our Losties don't all end up separated and scattered all over time and in different realities!

davidsalako said...

Also on another topic - anyone think there was anything to the fact that oceanic airlines told Jack that Christian's coffin was in Berlin? Wasn't Berlin where Sayid spent a lot of time tracking "the economist" some seasons back?
Just thought that it was odd that out of all the cities on the planet, it was that one. Probably nothing?! Right?

Anonymous said...

Great recap. This is my first post ever so forgive me if it has been mentioned or is too out there - Anyone think Eloise could be the 'crazy' Mother of MIB?

Florin Milea said...

@davidsalako - Berlin could be thrown in for dramatic effect, that’s until proven otherwise.

@Glenn R - I did said that Widmore was under her slipper. He he got slapped by her when he said that Daniel is his son as well. So it was obvious. Charlie I said was testing the waters walking in the traffic and now I could compare it to Jacob drowning Ricardo to prove the fact that he was alive.

Alan Dale - Alan Alda. Okay the last one hosts American Scientific Frontiers on pbs. You’ll find there a lot about realities and how they are perceived by our consciousness. I can not use a long post on it, just check it yourself.
I can say that taken individually and separately, you are right; Both realties are valid just like in Fringe where each one has its own life and players. But since they can not coexist in the same space just like the polarities of a battery, only one can be true. The show made a Big Stretch with this. In theory, no two different versions of me can coexist in the same plane of time and space. So Daniel showing up while his mother was pregnant with him, and then been killed by her is a anathema to scientists. A such thing will lead to an extinction of the subjects. The whole thing has to be taken for the dramatic effect.

I can’t understand your reluctance on this matter and how much evidence do you still need unless you made up your minds about it already, so what’s the point?

Case and point: In reality, none of the Oceanic 815 ever lived on the island in 1977, the first sideways storie-lines show that very clearly. Yet that’s where the split threw them to, either the hatch imploding or the jughead. The same characters did lived in at least two different realities, which should’ve nullified them. So since they were in another place and time in the real life, the aftermath of the split has be a false reading. The course correction I hope has been well planned, otherwise its going to look either unrealistic or just melodramatic effect. The later I hope to say it at least.

@candidate - So in your opinion Australia was the positive and Tunisia was the negative? If I am reading you correct, you cracked a good one. Maybe that explains how come Rose started to get healed of her terminal cancer before she knew it.

@anonymous - No, you’re the first one to mention that, and boy-oh-boy, what a plot-line that would be. Kudos...

EJ said...

Re: Charlie walking through the traffic -- I figured Charlie knew he couldn't die, and that's what he meant when he made some comment to Desmond about "I have to show you" right before he grabbed the car's steering wheel and went into the water. This is like when Michael tried to kill himself and Mr Friendly (in that swanky NY apartment) told Michael he could try but would not succeed. I think you all are more on track, so glad for the "course correction" on this thinking!

But, it does bring to mind the whole why couldn't Michael kill himself? Was it because "the island wasn't done with him yet?" The way he got back was with Widmore, but really via Ben's manipulation. Did Michael really die in the freighter explosion? I think this is one of those questions that won't be answered. I think it's because John Locke made the decision to leave Walt alone (when he saw Walt after school in NY on his quest to find everyone after Widmore picked John up in Tunisia.)

Good point, Mike V, about Ben needing John for info and killing John once he got it. But hadn't Ben already been to see Eloise at the church once before that? (I don't remember excatly -- it was one of those end of the show scenes that made no sense at the time.)

Florin Milea said...

@EJ - You know EJ! You just made me think again over this Michael attempt to kill himself.
He tried with the car in the harbor dock and then in the alley with the gun. Failed on both occasions and this 'island is not done with you yet' is a slang a mysterious whack a la Eloise.

Des tried to save Charlie many times until he realized that the correction made by the universe, when the time is up, time is up.
So what if Michael couldn't do it, Charlie wouldn't be killed by the cars, Ben couldn't kill Widmore was all because the tie was not real?

Maybe one of the rules and perhaps violation is that nothing in the false time line or false reality can be killed, since it's the false reading.
Why would Charlie die in LA when in the real time he was supposed to die on the island?

This is something that spurred in my mind just by thinking on this last post of EJ.

As my favorite ending; the island is sank with Smokey/MiB locked up, much to his harmless anger and all the Losties are redeemed, returning to their successful lives with clean plates.

Glenn R. said...

Just read this:

"Lost: It might be the saddest so-long in TV history, but at least ABC is helping to soften the blow by extending the Lost preshow to two hours. For those keeping score at home, Lost finale-night programming now totals five full hours. Better clear room on your DVR before Sunday, May 23!"

Hey, maybe all the people on this blog should meet up in in-person in some central location and rent a big hotel conference room with a massive television for the finale! :-) whaddaya'all say?

Florin Milea said...

@Glenn R - Thank you for the info, very important.
As meeting in one place, I wish we would all have the money to make that event possible.

Courtney said...

Sayid's Secret Flashback:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GCUE9z1SCQ

plumbarius said...

Great little piece of writing when Desmond introduces himself to Eloise.

Eloise-"its about time" :-)
-----------------------------------
Read most of the comments...its becoming a daunting task this season!

I still think that in the end:
Jack=Jacob
Flocke=MIB
Hurley=Richard

This show throws a lot of curve balls at us but at the same time, there is a degree of predictability to what can/will happen as we get closer to the end.

I hope we don't get most/all the answers...its like learning how a magician does his tricks, it takes away some of the awe and excitement!

Candidate said...

Back To Eloise (Team MIB or not?) Just did a major rewatch last night/This morning. The first 10 episodes of season 5. Christian told John Locke To find Eloise just before correcting the axis on the donkey wheel. Charles wants Locke/Bentham alive "...Will do everying thing in his power to keep him alive..." When Lapidus and Sun arrive on the main island there is a "Smokey like" entrance (no clicking sounds but some of the familiar leaves and sticks crunching) before the appearance of Christian. Eloise makes a big deal about Jack having to take something of his fathers for Lockes body as a proxy.(the shoes) In the Secrets of The Universe extra DVD it talks about possibly Eloise and the church being in cohoots w/the DI. An Other and a DI hmmmm. Well after viewing the facts it would seem that Eloise may be on team MIB (of course on Lost things are usually not what they seem at first) but whatever she's doing I still think her motivation is bigger than her screw-up on Daniels life.

Candidate said...

Cont. from last post. So I guess we need some confirmation if Christian was MIB or not which would probably determine if Eloise has good and sound intentions for the greater good or not.

davidsalako said...

Team Darlton have confirmed that MIB has appeared as Christian Shephard. Like Mike V., I am not convinced that ALL Christian Shephard appearances have been MIB.
There is probably a reason Christian Shephard appears in two distinctively different clothing attires in his apparitions over the course of six seasons.
Maybe it's Jacob or a third entity we are yet to be clearly informed about.
Eloise's interests definitely go beyond Daniel's life...

Mike V. said...

Man, after a pretty low key commenting week, you guys went crazy this weekend! lol I'll see what I can hit up here.

First off: Glenn, yeah the 5 hours of LOST FINALE NIGHT will be fantastic. I'm excited. But, I think I gotta wrap this one up in the best way possible that I enjoy LOST....in a dark basement, big screen TV, surround sound....and SILENCE!! (besides explosions, Giachhino music and Darlton dialogue! LOL) Cool thought though. I know Jay and Jack (from the podcast) are doing a big shin dig out in Los Angeles for a Finale Viewing party. They are sponsored and everything. Pulling out all the stops. But considering I need to assemble this BLOG the next day, sticking to the routine sounds like the best approach! lol

There are just way too many comments here...I'm gonna have to pick and choose, sorry guys!

@Candidate - You never know with Dez's Australia business, but I'm not holding my breath. As for PAIK Industries, I have always thought they would be more involved than they have been. I guess there's always a chance for it to come into the fold before the end.

@Florin - yeah the ben missing John part of the killing was bizarre. But I think he did enjoy playing mind games with Locke lol They've had such exciting scenes together. But I think his hunger for power and his jealousy of Locke's rise to the top superseded that. And yeah...he has essentially "REFORMED" now for his mistakes. We'll see if it sticks up to the end!

@Glenn - I'll see what I can do about a POLL on how people think it should end. I think we need a 3rd and 4th option though besides the eye closing and Jacob/MIB scene reimaging. I'll have to think of a couple more and I'll post it along with the blog on WEdnesday. Any suggestions are welcome!

@Kim - Totally agree!! May 24th is going to start a long mourning process....this blog will be here for everyone for the foreseeable future to try and fill the void!

Mike V. said...

@David/Glenn - I too support a widmore/eloise backstory. Just don't know when they'll fit it in..but it clearly seems important!

As for the coffin in Berlin, probably nothing...but still interesting! LOL

@Anonymous First time Poster - THANKS! I actually don't think Eloise as MIB's mother has been suggested yet. Of course, Doc Jensen suggested Smokey might be Daniel Faraday at one point....so maybe it was indirectly suggested LOL But that is certainly interesting. Don't know how it would work though. I think MIB has been MIB for quite some time....even before ELLIE's time.

@EJ - it's all because we saw the episodes out of order. We didn't know how Ben became in cahoots with Eloise the first time we saw it. We learned how when Locke revealed that he was supposed to go see Eloise Hawking. Then Ben killed him.

@Courtney - hysterical stuff! lol What movie was that with Naveen in it?

@Plumb - Loved that line too! I agree that some mysteries are twisty and some are very predictable in the end. We'll see what happens! I'm still hoping the cycle gets broken! I agree though, we still need some mystery when the show is over...and I'm 100% confident we'll still have some!

@Candidate - I agree with David that Darlton pretty much confirmed in their podcast that Smokey has appeared as Christian. Well, they never said it outright but they read a reader question that mentioned it and they didn't say it WASN'T true. I still think that Christian, like we now have seen Isabella...has been represented in multiple forms on the island.

And I'm still not ruling out a 3rd entity either David. There just seems to be more going on on that Island than even Jacob and MIB are responsible for. They have always said that the ISLAND itself is a character on this show....so to take away from that and make us think that MIB and Jacob are behind everything would feel kinda cheap wouldn't it?

Anyway...i'm just rambling again! Great comments everyone...sorry for any I skipped...i still read them all! :-)

Candidate said...

More facts Christian told Locke to bring everyone back (the candidates) If Christian is/was MIB.. well than was the plan to infect of kill em. Probably but Jacob had Illana bring Sayid. So I guess for now we wait and hope that we get some kind of fact on what/who exactly possesed Christians body.
On another note it really does seem that the writers have a had a "plan" all along. There is so many little things that are said randomly by each character that (at first) may seem like regular diologue but NOW (that we deeper into the story) makes sense. OH that's what he/she REALLY meant by such and such comment. Anyhow great fun last night!

Candidate said...

Thank you for the Darlton confirmation on Christian. So It's an open ended answer like sometimes he was and sometimes he wasn't is how I'm interpreting this. A third entity I have also thought of being on the island and than the island as a character which I haven't seen brought up in a long time so thanks for the reminder in that. Cheerz

Courtney said...

lol no idea mike, i just stumbled upon it on youtube :) i posted it on my facebook and didn't get any hits haha. i must not have very many losty friends! i thought you all might enjoy it though!

Glenn R. said...

Courtney, fun link, thanks for sharing! :-)

Glenn R. said...

@Candidate -- re. MIB & Christian. The clothing that davidsalako is referring to: In the early scenes with Christian on the island, he is wearing white shoes. He does not wear the white shoes anymore beginning with the scene where he meets up with Claire and convinces her to leave Sawyer & Miles and come with him to the cabin.

Candidate said...

I just realized i had many typos in my last couple of posts one biggie was "MIB planning to kill OR infect..."
Does anyone know of any season 5 and 4 DVD hidden goodies (easter eggs)???
I have the Dharma Binder version if that makes a difference. On the Season 3 DVD is loaded with these. Also wondering if anyone has enrolled in the Lost University?

Candidate said...

Oh yes Thank You Glenn R for the reminder of the White shoes and no White shoes. So what other clothing differences am I missing with Christian?

Candidate said...

RE @ Glenn RI wonder if the White shoes would be Jacob (White Stone) and the black shoes would be MIB (Black Stone) How did I miss that???!!!

davidsalako said...

Also, Christian's early apparition appearances - season 1 and 2 - had him dressed in a suit. From season 4, he has appeared wearing the striped smart casual dress shirt that he had on while cradling Aaron in the jungle and in the Donkey Wheel cavern.
He originally had white shoes on in the coffin on oceanic 815, Jack later got Christian's black shoes from Grandad Ray for Locke's body on Ajira 316. The same black shoes MIB had an and took off in his strange ritual when going by boat from Hydra island to Main island.

Mike V. said...

One comment about the White Shoes. We got the answer to why Christian was wearing white shoes in the coffin in season 5....Jack told the story to Kate that he didn't have any dress shoes but his mother wanted the funeral immediately when they landed. And he wondered "who will ever see his feet?" So the white shoes are actually Jack's sneakers. maybe indirectly symbolic of Jacob...but I think we got our answer on that one already! lol

But yes I've been curious to how Christian changed. The last time we saw christian in the suit is when Hurley looked into the moving shack at the beginning of season 4.

I think I mentioned some similar stuff that David did too. But David, were those Christian's shoes that he took off to cross the water from Hydra to Main or was it part of the smokey apparition? lol I don't recall of the REAL LOCKE CORPSE had shoes on his feet or not. This show is so crazy! LOL But yeah, i still thought the whole "taking off of the shoes" was very strange....considering they didn't make a point to showing him do it this time when he went back to hydra this season.

Anyway, that's all i have for now!

davidsalako said...

You're right Mike V., the real Locke's corpse must have still had Christian's black shoes on....unless MIB somehow duplicated everything as he was wearing the same suit that Locke's corpse had on when the Ajira survivors found FLocke sitting or standing in the water after the crash.
This show is soo crazy regarding details! lol

Candidate said...

Thanks Mike and David for shedding light on Christian and his wardrobe. I never really thought that a clue would be in the clothing... the suit and the smart lol striped shirt. My mind is racing after watching 10 eps in one sitting.
No answers on easter eggs in s5 DVD?

Candidate said...

Mike. Yeah...That's RIGHT!!! the tennis shoes were Jacks therefore also to represent Jacob ala Jack. Very insightful.

Mike V. said...

Sorry missed that question! Lol yeah there's tons. I'm posting from phone so hopefully link works. If not just go to lostpedia and check it out !

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lost:_The_Complete_Fifth_Season_(DVD)#Easter_eggs

Mike V. said...

This will work

davidsalako said...

A white tennis shoe is seen in the very first scene of the pilot episode hanging from a tree as Jack wakes up and runs around.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V & Candidate, etc.

In the first scenes of the Pilot 1, Jack runs past a bamboo stick and a white shoe was hanging in the tree. davidsalako is on it too.

Before bringing Jeremy Bentham back, Jack did put Christian's dress shoes in Locke's feet saying; I must be crazier than you are, or something along that line.
From that moment I never saw Christian with white shoes no more.

@Courtney - Thank you for the clip. I will look up more on lost, but the stuff with Andrews shoes what a good actor he is. I'll remember him now better that way, then Sayid. And I hope he recovers like Ben in this show. A few characters like him, Sawyer and Kate to say at least, I am rooting for them.

Florin Milea said...

Sorry, davidsalako you're right - not in the tree, the shoe's in it only.Phew...

Florin Milea said...

Andrews shows what a good actor it is, not shoes, phew... I do a lot of typos here tonight.

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