Thursday, May 14, 2009

LOST Season 5 Episode 16 & 17 - The Incident

Hello Losties! I'm sure many of you are annoyed at what happened on the last episode of LOST this season. All the hints were there from the producers and Benjamen Linus himself (Michael Emerson) that we might get a little frustrated at the end of the episode. But hey, there is only one season to go right? Season 6 - The season of Answers is on the brink of existence! In 8.5 months we may finally start to be able to piece this together. And in the meantime, we have plenty of juicy intel dumped onto us tonight to digest over those many months of LOST hibernation!

Before we get too far into the blog, I wanted to welcome our viewers from the Tampa Bay area who may have seen me make a fool of myself on the local ABC Action News! Thinking more about the crazy theories I came up with LIVE on the air, I know that no one should be put under the gun immediately after a big episode airs because you may say something you regret! Anyway, for our readers around the globe that want to see this wonderful few minutes of my debut to the press, I will work on that over the next few weeks (or months). To the Tampa contingent, I promise you, you may get more out of my processed thoughts than my immediate ON-AIR thoughts so stick around and discuss with us!

One word to sum up our Penultimate Finale to the GRAND FINALE Season next year....you know what it is! WOW!!!! I mean what didn't this episode have? Romance, Gun Fights, Explosions, ROSE AND BERNARD!!!!, Vincent, intriguing flashbacks, the Black Rock, the 4 toed statue in its entirety, a tidbit on Richard, information on John Locke, Marvin Candle/Pierre Chang's Hand injury, a scene with Sun and Jin together, Phil getting what he deserves!, someone shutting Radzinsky up for a brief moment in time, oh right and we met the almighty one known as JACOB! And the way he is introduced to us is quite intriguing! Let's not waste any time as this blog is going to be quite large (as all finale blogs are). As I always say, you have plenty of time during this off-season to read it!

The Synopsis: In 1977, Jack is carrying out Daniel Faraday's mission to detonate the Hydrogen Bomb and prevent the Incident that inevitably brings Oceanic Flight 815 to the Island and causes 3 years of turmoil for the Island residents. Kate has been captured by DHARMA and put on the SUB with Juliet and Sawyer. Destination REAL WORLD! Hurley, Miles and Jin are still hanging around DHARMAVILLE trying to figure out what to do next. In 2007, John Locke is leading an expedition with Ben, Richard and all of the OTHERS to go see Jacob. His secret mission only revealed to Ben is to KILL Jacob. The Ajira 316 "Shadow of the Statue" crew are also on the move. Oh right, and then there is that little story of JACOB's big reveal in our Flashback scenes. Did Locke succeed with his mission? Was Jack able to alter the course of time? What exactly is Jacob and what has he been up to his whole life? Let's dive in and discuss!

The Flashbacks
We had an interesting series of flashbacks tonight focusing on the majority of our main characters and their past interactions with the pseudo-deity of the Island. Did these events set off a chain of other events that led them to the island in the first place? But first, we get a scene from a long time ago:

Jacob's Introduction
  • The first shot of Jacob we get is creating a tapestry of sorts. His location is a mystery at the time but there is a fire in the middle of the ancient room.

  • We see Jacob fishing and watching a boat sailing in. Oh yes folks, it's the Black Rock! So we are dating back some several hundred years. (1400's/1500's?)  
    Correction: We have a confirmed year of the Black Rock in season 4's "THE CONSTANT" dating around 1845.  I was off only a couple hundred years! 

  • There is a mysterious man with Jacob talking to him about the ship. They discuss how Jacob BROUGHT them here. Based on what we see later, it seems like Jacob has been recruiting people to bring to the Island over various periods of time. But for what purpose?

  • The Mysterious man talks about how it always ends the same way "They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same way" Jacob says "It only ends once, anything before that is just progress" What on earth are they talking about? Are they talking about the various crews that have come to the island or are they talking about the BLACK ROCK crew specifically? Are they experiencing the Time Loop over and over again and retaining the memories from each loop? Is that what the man means by "always ends the same way" and what Jacob means by "it only ends once" and the events before is just progress towards that one ending? Was that the clue of all clues? Because the Come/Fight/Destroy/Corrupt could apply to DHARMA and the LOSTIES as well. So it could be more generic. But if it was a Time Loop, then why would the Jacob and the man pretend to not know why the Black Rock was showing up? And, if the producers are telling us that the TIME TRAVEL stories are in fact over for good, then are we really going to continue discussing this Time Loop?
  • Also, if the Black Rock is sailing towards the Island, how on earth did it end up land locked in the middle of the Island when we see it in 2004? I just figured that at some point the Island was moved and the boat ended up marooned in the middle of the island when the Island showed up in its location. I guess there might be more to it. I believe we will be finding much more out about the Black Rock in season 6 as we are told it may hold some keys to the Island's secrets.
  • This Man also tells Jacob that he wants to kill him. Jacob knows it. The man says he is going to find a "loophole" to be able to do it. Okay, what? So why won't he just kill Jacob right there? Is it similar to why Ben knew he couldn't kill Widmore in their off-island visit in season 4? And what is this Loophole? I mean, we sorta find out the solution to the loophole by the end of the episode, but we still don't know what it's all about. If it's a time loop, then I have some crazy ideas (one of which I shared without fully explaining myself on the Tampa news!) but we'll get to that later.
  • Oh right, we found out that Jacob and Mystery Man were hanging out at the 4 toed Statue in its entirety! There were many speculations that the statue was the Egyptian God of the Underworld Anubis or the Egyptian Goddess of Fertility and Rebirth Taweret. It looks like the latter is the correct one. With the 2 Ankh's, one in each hand, which we had speculated before and the more rounded face, it seems like the statue is of Taweret. No pregnant belly though!

  • So what does this signifiy? Well, we know that eventually there are fertility issues on the island and woman die during their pregnancies if they conceive on-island. Could this have something to do with the demise of the statue? We saw Juliet deliver a baby in 1977. But we never confirmed if that statue was still there in 1977. Could it be that "THE INCIDENT" caused the statue to crumble? Or was the comment of the Black Rock crew "DESTROYING" foreshadowing their part in destroying the statue? They sure left us with a lot of questions going into the final season of LOST didn't they?! I dunno, I'm still undecided if this think is Tawaret or Anubis though. I mean, this thing clearly doesn't have a belly! Don't get me started on the Crocodile God Sobek! While the face does look a little reptilian, I just don't think the LOST crew would make the 4 toed statue the Protector from Crocodiles! But the producers did say we would definitively be able to tell what the statue is by the end of the finale, so WHAT SAY YOU Lost Addicts Blog readers?
  • Also we should note that Jacob was wearing a white shirt while his rival was wearing a black shirt. Ever since season 1 there has been this theme of black and white, light and dark. The black and white stones with the Adam and Eve skeletons, Locke's explanation of backgammon, etc... Even the name of the approaching ship is the "BLACK" Rock. Is this to suggest that Jacob is a force for good and this other man is a force for evil? Even possibly Smoke Monster related? Ahhhh....gotta love LOST!
Kate's Flashback
Does anyone remember way back in season 1 when the Kate-centric episode had us going back to finding out whose toy airplane she had robbed a bank for? It turned out to be her childhood friend Tom. They buried a Time Capsule in season 1 in a lunch box that had a tape of them having fun as kids, the toy airplane amongst other things. Well, apparently Jacob played a role in Kate getting the almighty New Kids on the Block lunch box!
  • Boy Tom was carrying his toy plane while he stood guard when Kate shoplifted the lunchbox. They were caught by the store clerk. No Fear though, Jacob was there, appearing the same age as he did in the Black Rock era, offered to pay for it. He advised little Kate to never steal again and to be good. Which is ironic because older Kate staged a robbery just to get that crazy plane back.
  • So did Jacob's interaction do anything to set Kate on a course of events that led her to become a fugitive and end up on Oceanic 815? It doesn't seem so on the surface, but going back to the first scene of the episode, it seemed like Jacob was watching over these people right from the beginning and controlling their destinies. I guess the big question is WHY? And, is this how the OTHERS were able to have so much detailed information on all of the survivors of 815? We started to believe that it was because Ben was aware that he lived with several of them for years in DHARMA times (Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Jin). But if Jacob has been a mastermind and pulling all of the strings and making lists, that might make more sense.
Sawyer's Flashback
We are reminded of James "Sawyer" Ford's motivation to become the con-man that he is. John Locke's father conned his parents out of some money by seducing the mother. Sawyer's dad ended up killing mommy and then himself. We knew that the boy James wrote a letter to the real con-man Sawyer (Locke's father went by many aliases) that he carried with him his whole life so that he may one day read it to the man before he killed him.
  • We see James at his parents' funeral. He stays back to begin writing the letter when his pen runs out of ink. Jacob is there to offer him a new one. He apologizes for the loss and continues on.
  • A relative/friend of the family finds James' letter and tells him to not finish it and to move on. What's Done is Done.
  • We know that Sawyer does go on to finish that letter and Locke sets up a meeting between his father and Sawyer in the Black Rock on the island. So Jacob, helped instigate the role that Sawyer would play for his entire life. That does seem to be meddling a bit doesn't it?
Sayid's Flashback
When Sayid left the Island in January 2005 he found his true love Nadia and went to live a happy life until 10 months later, we see him in Iraq at Nadia's funeral. Ben meets him there and recruits Sayid to become an assasin and blames Charles Widmore as the man responsible for Nadia's death. We never did find out if Ben was speaking the truth or manipulating Sayid for personal gain.
  • Our new scene shows Sayid and Nadia in Los Angeles enjoying each other's company and discussing their anniversary. They begin crossing an intersection. Jacob is there and claims to be lost and asks Sayid for directions. While asking for directions Nadia is hit be a vehicle and then the vehicle runs off.
  • This scene is very similar to Season 3's "Not in Portland" where Juliet jokingly tells Richard Alpert that if her Ex-Husband was a hit by a bus, she might be able to take him up on his offer to do research for Mittlos BioSciene. Alas, we then see her Ex hit by a bus out of nowhere. Coincidence? Richard and Jacob both around for these events? And we must not forget about them bringing Anthony Cooper (Locke's Dad) to the Island via a car accident as well. What is up with THE OTHERS and spontaneous car accidents?
  • Of course, we didn't get a look at the driver. Is it indeed the man working for Widmore that Ben pointed out to Sayid last season? Was Jacob really saving Sayid from sharing in Nadia's fate? But at the same time, ensuring that Sayid remained alive to travel back to the island and shoot Ben as a child? Yikes, anyone else have a headache?
  • Nadia asks Sayid to take her home, this implying why they went back to Iraq for the funeral.
Ilana's Flashback
We did not know much about Ilana's motivation going into this episode. We suspected that she was working for Ben Linus. We know she seduced Sayid and got him to board Ajira Flight 316 with her. Well our new scene is just as perplexing but at least we got more information on who she is working for.
  • We find Ilana in a run-down hospital somewhere with her face all bandaged up. Jacob comes to see her and they clearly know each other. Jacob speaks in Russian apologizing that he wasn't there sooner. Ilana says that she is happy he is there. Jacob says he is there for her help and she agrees to help.
  • Well what happened to Ilana? Why do they know each other? Was Ilana recruited by Jacob to get Sayid back to the Island as well as whatever other purpose she was asked to come to the island for?
Locke's Flashback
Speaking of the ever present Anthony Cooper (Locke's Father), he was also the one that caused Locke's paralysis in an attempt to kill him. He pushed him out a window and Locke fell 8 stories to the ground breaking his back. Now we see the scene from Jacob's perspective:
  • Jacob is sitting on a bench reading Flannery O'Connor's Everything That Rises Must Converge. The book is a collection of short stories that Flannery wrote during her final illness. Speculate at your leisure!

  • We see John Locke fall from behind Jacob. Jacob, clearly expecting this to happen, casually puts his bookmark into the book and walks over to John. It appears that John is laying there lifeless until Jacob puts his hand on John's shoulder. John gasps for air as Jacob tells him "Don't worry everything is going to be alright. I'm sorry this happened to you"
  • Ummm......HUH? Does Jacob have healing powers? And if so, was he able to touch Locke to revive him but still manage to keep him paralyzed? It has been spoken of in season 3 and 4 that that fall should have killed Locke, so it would seem that Jacob's intervention here was necessary for him to be alive. On-Island there is speculation to Jacob's involvement in Locke being alive after death as well, but we need to discuss that separately. There are also tie-ins to Richard's ageless mystery as well.
Jin and Sun Flashback
The only scene this season that featured Jin and Sun together. Very fitting that it be their wedding. They exchange their vows. Jin's talks about them never ever being apart because it would be like the sky being apart from the earth.
  • Yep, Jacob is there too. He offers a blessing in perfect Korean. "Your Love is a very special thing. Never take it for granted"
  • Something to note that I did not mention in the above flashbacks. Jacob touched each one of our Oceanic People. In the Kate Flashback, he touched her nose. Sawyer, they touched hands at the passing of the pen. Sayid, when Nadia was hit by the car, Jacob's hand goes to Sayid's shoulder. He touched Locke's shoulder. And when he gives the blessing he touches both Jin and Sun's arms. What does this signify? I have no idea, but it would be odd if it was merely coincidence. Also, he did not lay a hand on Ilana.






Jack's Flashback
We know this scene very well. In the Pilot episode Jack explains the scene when he rips a young girl's dural sack in his first solo surgery. He explained to Kate how he counted to 5 and it got rid of the nerves. We never know that it was his father Christian that instructed him to do the counting embarassing Jack in the process. In either case it worked.
  • Jack then goes to the vending machine to try and get out an Apollo bar. It gets stuck.
  • Christian comes out and explains that the crisis was averted and the girl is okay. Jack flips out on his dad claiming that he needs his team to believe in him especially with Christian being the Chief of Surgery. Jack claims Christian doesn't believe in him. Christian claims it was the other way around.
  • Enter Jacob with 2 apollo bars. He asked if one was Jack's. They focus in on the hands as Jacob exchanges the bar to Jack and touches his hand. Jack looks at him funny and then awkwardly smiles.

  • So do we think it's a coincidence that Jacob touched Locke and woke him up in his flashback and Jack's "future wife (at the time)" Sarah was paralyzed and Jack's surgery miraculously cured her? Do we think Jacob played a role in her recovery? Perhaps it goes back to this very moment where Jack and Jacob exchanged candy bars and touched hands? Seems pretty far fetched right now. But how else could Sarah have been cured?
Juliet's Flashback
No Jacob involved in this one as far as I can tell. This shows Juliet and her Sister Rachel learning that her parents were getting divorced. This scene ties into a scene between her and Sawyer in the present day (well errrr 1977) which we aren't quite at yet! Juliet's mother explains that you just know when you're not supposed to be together and that she will understand when she's a grown-up. She refuses to understand as a child. But like I said, it ties into a later event!

Hurley's Flashback
Ever since the episode "316" this season, we had some mysteries to tie up about how the Oceanic 5 + Ben got on the plane and what events transpired prior to them boarding that plane. All had been resolved except Hurley and the guitar case and Hurley's motivation to go to the Island.
  • Hurley tries to convince the cops to keep him in jail but they continue to discharge him.
  • When Hurley leaves to get in a cab, Jacob is in there with a guitar. Jacob tells Hurley that they can share the cab. When they depart Jacob tells Hurley he wasn't in jail and that he was waiting for him. He asked Hurley why he didn't want to go back to the island. Hurley goes into his speech of how he is cursed. He thinks the plane crashed because of him and the people died because of him. And now the ghosts visit him. (he's opening up to a stranger pretty easily about these ghosts!) Jacob claims that Hurley is blessed to be able to talk to people that he has lost. He tells Hurley that he is not crazy for seeing the Ghosts. Jacob never reveals who he is but tells Hurley where to be (Ajira 316) to get back to the Island and that the choice was his.
  • As Jacob was leaving the cab, he touched Hurley, so the trend continues!

  • Jacob claims that the guitar is not his. So then whose is it? Charlie's? I thought Jorge Garcia said we were going to find out about the guitar! All we found out was that it was in a car with Jacob and now Hurley has it. We don't even know what is in the case yet! Ugh...oh well, 8.5 months!
2007
The pilgrimage continues for John Locke, Ben Linus, Richard Alpert, Sun Kwon and the rest of the OTHERS to go see Jacob. And we also follow the events of the Ajira "Shadow of the Statue" folk after they leave Hydra Island.

"Shadow the Statue" Brigade
Ilana, Bram and their other 3 red-shirts take one of the outriggers to the main island with Frank Lapidus and their large silver crate in tow. The following events ensue:
  • Bram asks Ilana why they brought Frank (or "this yahoo" as he put it!) Ilana stated that the might need him. And they discussed the potential of him being a candidate. Hmmm what on earth are they talking about? Considering we know Ilana is working for Jacob could this be an equivalent to people on Jacob's lists?
  • Frank was awake during Bram and Ilana's discussions and wondered who they are. Ilana states that they are friends. Bram states that they are the "GOOD GUYS" Loved Frank's line that people that have to state they're the good guys are usually the bad guys! Remember in season 2 when Ben told Michael that the others were The Good Guys, which he repeated to him in season 4.
  • They decide to show Frank what is in the silver crate, and of course for now, keep it from us. But Frank's line "terrific" says it all! We'll wait until a little later for the unveiling!
  • The crew continue their trek and arrive at Jacob's Cabin (which had most recently been inhabited by Christian and Claire but was built by Horace Goodspeed of the DHARMA Initiative).
  • Bram and Frank have a discussion about what's in the crate. They said that they came to warn somebody that they know who they are up against which is a lot scarier that what's in the box. We do find out by the end of the episode who they need to show it to.
  • Bram notes that there is a break in the continuous circle of Ash. What on earth does THAT mean?

  • Ilana looked very concerned and clearly stepped "OVER" the ash. Perhaps it is there to note if intruders were in the premises of the cabin. Seems too simple a solution!
  • Ilana goes into the cabin which is in shambles. Pictures on the floor, many of the cabin's possessions are no longer there. Except for a piece of what seems like tapestry that Ilana brings out to the crew.
  • Ilana says that "he" isn't there and hasn't been for a long time. That someone else has been using it. (Christian?)
  • Ilana shows Bram what was in the cabin. Looks like they were given a message to head to the statue! Not sure if this cloth helps clarifiy if this is Tawaret or Sobek. But probably not Anubis!

  • Before they head to the statue, the set the cabin on fire. Well, we didn't see Claire in there, so hopefully she is okay! Frank makes a note of setting the whole jungle on fire, but the Ajira folk do not seem concerned.
  • We'll meet up with this crew a little later.
Locke's Pilgrimage
Locke and crew keep trekking to Jacob. Lots of discussions happen on their way that we should probably...well...discuss!
  • Sun asks Ben who Jacob is. Ben says he is the man in charge. That he once was and now Locke is the LEADER of the Others but the leader always reports to Jacob. Ben admitted to Sun to never meeting Jacob. I know that I have fallen for this before but in this episode especially, it seems like we can believe everything Ben is saying. He has reached an all-time low and is following Locke's orders based on Ghost-Daughter's appearance.
  • Locke and Richard have an interesting discussion. Richard is curious to how Locke is alive if Ben strangled Locke. He said he has never seen anything like this. Locke says he has never seen anyone NOT age before. Richard says that he is that way BECAUSE OF JACOB which is why he thinks Locke is that way.
  • So is that enough explanation folks? We clearly see that Jacob does not age and that he has some supernatural healing powers. Would this be enough to consider that Richard is ageless because of Jacob? Do we still wonder HOW this works? Of course we do! And for that we need to find out exactly WHO Jacob is. And I'm guessing that will be a tale told in Season 6. This episode was just a taste of it. But, if I were to connect the dots with last week's episode and Richard working on the Black Rock model and now we see Jacob was at the island PRIOR to the Black Rock's arrival, well I would like to declare with 51% certainty that Richard was a member of the Black Rock and NOT from ancient Egyptian times! Stay tuned for season 6!
  • Locke says he agrees completely that is why he is out of the coffin, so that he can thank him. And then once they're done with him they need to "deal with" the rest of the Ajira passengers. Ahhh it's all coming together. This supposed Locke is at odds with any supporters of Jacob, which makes sense since he wants to kill him. I know I know, I'm getting ahead of mysefl!
  • Later in the trek John and Ben had a discussion. Locke was surprised that Ben didn't tell Richard his plan to kill Jacob yet. Ben reveals the encounter with Ghost Alex and that he will do anything Locke says. Locke seems surprised by this encounter (but knowing what we know now...is he really??) but said it will be easier now to convince Ben to KILL Jacob. News that Ben didn't seem to take too well!
  • Locke and crew then arrive to the Oceanic 815 camp which is in shambles like we saw it during the time jumps. We should note that we did not see in this episode the Ajira crew shooting at Time Jumping Sawyer, Juliet, Daniel, Locke, Charlotte and Miles rowing away in an outrigger. So, perhaps it was not the Ajira crew afterall? Surely, we'll see that scene next season!
  • Locke says that they'll get where they are going by nightfall so that everyone should rest. They're going to need it.
  • Locke and Ben have a discussion in front of the Hatch Quarantine door (tying in this time period to 1977. So, is this proof that Jack didn't succeed in the mission to stop the Swan Station from being created?) Locke notes that the hatch is where he and Ben first met. Awww how sweet!
  • Locke asks about the day at the cabin when they first went to see Jacob. (Season 3's "The Man Behind the Curtain) Ben says that he was putting on a show, pretending, talking to an empty chair. He was embarassed that he couldn't see or talk to Jacob. But he was as shocked as Locke was when the place started going crazy and things started flying across the room. If you recall, Ben shot Locke in that episode and said it was because Locke "HEARD HIM." Hmmm that voice that said "HELP ME" certainly didn't sound like THIS Jacob that we met today did it? But regardless, it seems again that Locke is telling the truth. What does he have to lose right now? "Yes, I lied. That's what I do!"
  • Ben asks why he wants Locke to kill Jacob. Locke does a pretty convincing job of wondering why Ben did NOT want to kill Jacob. Loyal service to the island, yet Ben gets cancer. Has to watch his daughter die in front of him, and is banished from the island. He did all this in the name of a man he never met. Tough not to talk about what we know about Locke just yet, but we must stay strong!
  • Sun is examining the camp and sees Aaron's cradle that Locke built for Claire's birthday in season 1. Was anyone else hoping that she'd find Charlie's Driveshaft ring before she even found it? Yeah, I was definitely glad to see it there!
  • It is still light out, but you can tell it is getting close to evening now and Locke and crew are at their destination. Yep, it's the 4 toed statue in present condition. Which we find out is Jacob's home! (makes sense since he was right there in the first flashback of the night)

  • Here's what I don't get. Why, in season 2, did it take so long for Sayid, Jin and Sun to pass by the statue via Desmond/Libby's sailboat and here it took Locke and crew maybe a couple hours? Maybe I'm recalling the progression of events in the Season 2 Finale "Live Together Die Alone" but that seemed like it was very close to before they got to the North shore where they lit the signal for Jack and his crew that were following a "turned" Michael. I won't nitpick too much about it. But come on!!!!
  • Now, based on what we know about Locke at the end of this episode, why was Locke ASKING about the statue. Shouldn't he already know about it? I guess he could be playing dumb. And I know I am getting ahead of myself again, but maybe part of Locke does live on in this new incarnation.
  • It is now night and Locke continues to stare at the foot. Richard double checks with Locke one more time on if he wants to do this. "If you waited, Jacob would eventually have come to you" Locke is tired of waiting.
  • Sun asked Ben what happened to the rest of the statue. Ben said, I don't know it was like that when I got here. Sun says "Do you expect me to believe that?" Ben's answer was priceless "Not Really." So I guess this is a pretty big question, WAS the statue there in DHARMA Times? Because it might have been destroyed by THE INCIDENT and causing fertility issues on the Island ever since (I mean, yes, I know logically speaking that sounds ridiculous, but we are on an Island of ageless wonders and smoke monsters!) Of course, we don't know if we can believe Ben or not because he's not talking to All-Knowing Locke.
  • Richard and Locke head to the foot and Locke asks Ben to come along which causes a disturbance. Richard, frustrated, said there can only be one leader at a time! Locke says he thinks that Richard is just making these rules up as he goes along. He says Ben is coming in and he and Jacob will work it out.
  • Richard opens a secret door in the foot of the statue and sends Locke and Ben in. Well, who would have thought that there was more INSIDE the statue?! Crazy! Richard says "Tell him I said hello" and then leaves Locke and Ben to the rest of their quest.
  • Locke asks Ben if he's ready to do this. He knows it won't be easy but things will change once he's gone. He promises. Ben takes the knife and they head in.

Showdown at the Statue
Meanwhile, outside the Ajira folk arrive to the statue. Guns pointed everywhere. A crazy reveal is on the way!
  • Ilana and crew bring in the crate and come in peace. They drop their guns. She asks which one is Ricardos (if you remember, that is how Juliet said Richard's name in Latin back in the 3rd episode of the season "Jughead").
  • "It's Richard actually" Richard steps up to face them. The question is asked one more time. "What Lies in the Shadow of the statue?" Richard has an answer! Thank God!
  • "Ille qui nos omnes servabit" is the answer in Latin. I found 2 different translations on the net which pretty much equate to the same thing. "He who will Protect us all" or "He who will save us all" Well, we now know that Jacob lives WITHIN the statue. So is it safe to say that this is the secret handshake between Jacob's followers?
  • Ilana is pleased with the answer and introduces herself. We find out that Richard was the one they came to see. She orders the crate be opened up.
  • You ready for this guys? It's a dead body that they found in the cargo hold of the plane. Yup, in a COFFIN! It's John Locke!

  • Sun asks if THIS is Locke, then who is the man they have been following? A good question indeed Sun! Good question! Let's move on before we discuss.

"Locke" and Ben vs. Jacob
Ben and Locke head down the hallway into the main chamber.
  • The chamber turns out to be the same place that we saw in the beginning of the episode where we saw Jacob sewing and creating a tapestry, which hundreds of years later is now complete. The other big difference would be the giant hole in the ceiling where the rest of the statue used to be.

  • Jacob asks Ben if he likes the tapestry and says he made it himself. It took a very long time since he was making the thread, but that was the point.
  • Locke says hello to Jacob to which he responds, "Well you found your loophole" "Indeed I did" Woaaaaaaaaaa it's the man in black from the beginning that said he wanted to kill Jacob! Wait a sec, but is it? Locke seems to have all of the knowledge and memories of his prior self, of his relationship with Ben and Sun. But at the same time, he has seemed a bit off and a little TOO all-knowing right? So is this a hybrid of Locke and Jacob's Rival? Or is it strictly Jacob's rival with all of the memories of Locke via a timeloop? Having lived things over and over again to the point where both he and Jacob are aware of EVERYTHING that has happened on the island and know it by memory? He found a LOOPHOLE of sorts. What has this man been up to? Why did he have to be LOCKE in order to get to Jacob and still enlist Ben to kill him? Was he killed in the past and somehow is reincarnated in Lockean form? Was he excommunicated from the Island? What is this loophole? I want to know!! And when did these events start for John Locke? Was it Christian Shephard residing in the cabin that sent Locke on this path? We have seen him tied to the smoke monster and he also told Locke that he would have to die "That's why it is called sacrifice" Now I came up with a crazy theory on the news last night that maybe Christian Shephard is JACOB finding a loophole back to the Island via Shephard's body on Flight 815. It's crazy and out there I know and only make sense if the Timeloop theory is correct. But then if that was the case, would Jacob as Shephard have sent Locke to move the Island which eventually led to him leaving the island to be killed by Ben which would bring Man in Black as Locke to the Island? Ahhhhh so confusing. I'm sure there's a simple explanation to it all. But for now, all we have is theories and discussion!
  • Moving on, Bizarro Locke tells Jacob "you have no idea what I have gone through to be here" Ben is confused and asks if they have met before. B. Locke says "in a manner of speaking" and then asks Ben to do what he asked him to do.
  • Jacob tells Ben that whatever Bizarro Locke told Ben that he still has a choice. Do what he asks or he can go and leave them to discuss their "issues." Well this really sets Ben off! After all of this time he is no longer being ignored by Jacob. He lived on the island for 35 years and only heard of Jacob's name. Richard would bring instructions and LISTS from Jacob with empty promises that "You have to wait. Be patient". He never questioned anything. But Locke asks to come here and gets marched in as if he's Moses. "Why him? What was so wrong with me? What about me?" Jacob answers coyly back. "What about you?"
  • Ben loses it, takes out the knife and goes nuts stabbing Jacob multiple times a la what he did to Keamy last season! Jacob is spitting up blood and says "They're coming" 2 times. Who is coming? The Ajira people? The Others? Someone else that only Jacob and Bizarro Locke know about? Regardless, Locke rolls Jacob into the fire and ignites him. RIP Jacob??? Hmmm, I'm not so sure yet. But, we're going to have to wait until next season to see what is going on. In the meantime, I would love to hear all of your thoughts!

  • BTW my Christian is a reincarnation of Jacob theory? Ugh, I think I'm still regretting going down that path during the news interview. But I'm sure it made for entertaining TV! It just seems so crazy that Jacob has been around for so long and we are just introduced to him now for him to be completely dead. But we'll see! Let's see how well Jack and crew fared!
1977
Escape from the Sub
We last left Sawyer, Juliet and Kate in an awkward past-love/new-love heading to Real World conundrum. Kate reveals what is going on:
  • Kate explains to Sawyer and Juliet that Jack is planning to blow up Jughead in order to change their destinies. Kate is concerned for the people on the island. Sawyer doesn't seem to care. He is still angry that Jack and crew returned and messed up the great thing they had going. And he is content with not worrying about the people on the island's fate.
  • I spoke too soon last week with them not drugging the sub passengers. The sub crew were getting ready to hand out the sedative and OJ prior to heading on their "Island Exit Bearing" So much for the Looking Glass Station being involved with transportation to and from the island!
  • Juliet takes matters into her own hands and knocks out the DRUG MAN! She says that they BOTH made a decision to the leave the Island and now they are going back. They can't just let the people die. Sawyer gives in and Juliet uncuffs them all from Drug Guy's keys.
  • The sub captain communicates that they are ready to head on the bearing. (communicating with Looking Glass or Flame? Doesn't matter? Okay, I'll roll with it.) They call the sub the Galaga. I think that might be the first time we heard the name.
  • Sawyer and crew take Captain at gunpoint asking them to surface and let them off. And make sure that they do not bring the rest of the people back to the Island. Sawyer shoots the communication to make sure he doesn't have to talk to anyone and explain what has happened.
  • The sub surfaces and our heroes get off in a Raft (hmmm that was convenient! I guess it's standard safety procedure to have them on board!
Keep Drilling!
At various points in the episode, we cut to the DHARMA folk working on the Swan. It's lots of Radzinsky shouting and whining at the Swan, pushing aside Chang to keep drilling even against his warnings. Phil radios them via CB telling them about people heading their way. And eventually Chang, Radiznsky and Phil are all at the Swan for the final showdown. They eventually set up look out guards with Rifles in preparation for said showdown. Other Key Points
  • Radzinsky explaining to Chang that he came here to make a difference in the world and harness electromagnetic energy like it has never been used before.
  • Radzinsky realizing that Sayid (the Hostile) is involved and knows about the Swan which gets them ready for the showdown.
  • The drilling is getting very close to the pocket and the drill is heating up. Chang is very concerned that all hell is going to break loose.
Dismantling Jughead
We last left Jack, Sayid, Richard and Eloise in the tunnels with Jughead trying to figure out what to do next.
  • Apparently Daniel did all the work for them even specifying the weight of Jughead as 20 tons! There were instructions with how to dismantle the atomic bomb, take out the plutonium core and detonate it. Sayid claims that the core would have enough thermo-nuclear power to handle what they are attempting to do. Hmmm, I guesss maybe Daniel just wrote all the lyrics to the songs on U2's album of the same name How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb and Sayid was able to translate into TECH SPEAK! (yep, I'm getting a little delirous with the recapping!)

  • Anyway, Sayid begins to work his magic and removes the core.
  • It is also revealed that Eloise is pregnant, which we suspected last week with Charles talking about her condition. Eloise mentions this is EXACTLY the reason they have to do what Jack and Sayid want to do.
  • Sayid said they had 2 hours, which shocked Jack. Really Jack? Daniel mentioned before he died that the Incident would occur in 4 hours! Anyway Sayid gave Jack a refresher that Daniel was very explicit about his time table when he returned to the island. The big question is, how did Daniel KNOW when all of these events were going to happen and when? He even knew when Chang was showing up to the Orchid. Would this be a result of his own time traveling which we have yet to see? Or are we just supposed to accept on good faith that his research led to these exact times?
  • A little later, Sayid has the core in a backpack and they are on the move. Richard finds a hollow wall and takes a sledgehammer to it. They see the basement of one of the DHARMA houses. So they literally did build this place into the tunnels. Which explains the ancient door in Ben's house (which may have been Horace's?). The question is did DHARMA use the tunnels? We know that Radzinsky was aware of them when he drew the map in the Swan Hatch.
  • Lots of squabbling occurs about who is in charge. Eloise or Jack. But eventually Richard knocks Eloise out as he is not thrilled about helping them in the first place. He tells Jack and Sayid to continue on their own which they oblige.
  • They are in the middle of DHARMAVILLE and need to figure out how to get out of there without being noticed. Sayid puts on Horace's jumpsuit (guess that means they were in Horace's house!) and they plan on passing by as regular DHARMA folk. The alarms are going crazy as DHARMA is on alert looking for Jack and crew. No fear, Ben linus recognizes Sayid as the man who shot his son! It's payback time! He shoots Sayid in the gut and an all out gunfight starts. Jack goes nuts firing his little pistol at all of the rifle bearing DHARMA folk. He actually does shoot one or two of them. They get behind one of the DHARMA houses for cover. As they are trying to make a run for it Hurley, Jin and Miles show up with the DHARMA van pull them in and rescue them! WHEW!
  • They instruct Hurley to drive to the Swan. Jack says if they want to save Sayid they need to go to the SWAN. Yet again he is hoping that none of this even matters. The people he was killing in DHARMAVILLE, Daniel Dying, Sayid being shot. It can all be reset as long as they set off that bomb in the pocket of electromagnetic energy. Jack tells Jin he thinks he found a way to get him back to his wife. We'll save our theorizing until the end!
  • Miles asks if this is going to set them back in time. Jack says they are not going BACK in time. He apparently is just hoping that this version of them will not exist anymore and their lives will have gone on for 3 years as if they didn't crash on the Island. Yikes.

Meeting some old friends
Sawyer, Juliet and Kate row to shore trying to figure out what way is North, West and such and such.
  • Kate uses her knowledge of suns setting in the West to figure out where they were. But Sawyer asks if she had a compass anyway. Juliet is not too pleased at Kate and Sawyer's chumminess. Let's not even get into the fact that on the Island the light "scatters differently" according to Daniel Faraday. But I don't think that comes into play here as they do find where they are going.
  • The arrive on the shore. Kate thanks Juliet for backing her up at the sub. You can tell Juliet is thrilled about the situation!
  • A friendly face arrives to greet them. It's Vincent!! The producers have stated that Vincent will indeed survive to the end of the series. Exciting stuff!

  • And that's not the only people that are there. Nope, Rose and Bernard reluctantly come out to greet them. Rose: "Ohhhhh HELLLL no! They found us" Bearded Bernard: "Son of a B#$%&!"

  • Apparently while the Others easily heard Sawyer screaming to meet at the creek in 1954, Rose and Bernard were too occupied with the flaming arrows to hear them. We found out that Jin searching the grids in "LaFleur" was in search of any other survivors that were time jumping with them.
  • Rose and Bernard were aware of the searches and purposely avoided them. They are officially "RETIRED." They didn't want to be assimilated into the DHARMA Initiative. They grabbed food from DHARMA and created their own little residence by the ocean. Nice!
  • Sawyer and Kate explain what's about to happen with Jack and his bomb. Rose and Bernard don't care. If they die they die. They don't want to be involved in the drama. It's always something. They traveled back 30 years in time and they are still finding ways to shoot each other. No thanks! They just care about being together. It's all that matters in the end. (very telling for the awkward love triangle they are explaining it to!)
  • Juliet asks which way the DHARMA barracks are and they get their direction. Farewell Rose and Bernard! I think.
  • So, let's say that Jack and crew do not succeed in resetting the clock and whatever they do at the Swan caused them to travel back to 2007, do Rose and Bernard go with them or do they stay in the 70's? Were they outside of any radius that would have shipped them back? My point being. If they do remain in the 70's there is still a chance that they could be the Adam and Eve skeletons in the cave. Of course, they still need to acquire black and white stones and move to the caves for some reason. Maybe that is a failed theory, but I still think it makes sense! A couple living on their own, happily on an island. It just fits the scenario we saw in the caves early in season 1. We'll see!
  • Sawyer, Juliet and Kate head on their way to stop Jack!


Reunion
Jack and crew are about 5 minutes away from the Swan in the DHARMA van
  • Sayid wants to rework the bomb so that it can be detonated upon impact. He specifies that this has to happen at the exact moment of the incident or that this will all be for nothing.
  • The van comes to a halt. Sawyer, Kate and Juliet bearing weapons are blocking the way!
  • Sawyer asks for 5 minutes alone with Jack. Jack reluctantly obliges after some convincing. Jack and Sawyer sit down and have a chat. This is very reminiscent of the scene between Jack and Sawyer in season 1 when Sawyer brings up his encounter with Christian Shephard in Sydney. Sawyer begins to explain how his parents died. The Conman, the Murder-Suicide. He explains how it happened a year ago from where they are now 1976 but he didn't leave the island to stop it. What's Done is Done he says (similar to what the man told him in his flashback, similar to what he said earlier this season as well).
  • Sidenote: we find out it's July 1977. So Star Wars IS out in theaters!
  • Saywer demands to know what he screwed up so badly that they have to change things. Jack says that 3 years go Locke told him that all of this was happening for a reason. That it was their destiny. Sawyer had a classic line "I don't speak destiny!" A man does something because he wants something for himself. What does Jack want? "I had her and I lost her"
  • Sawyer is confused why Jack can't just tell Kate now. And they wouldn't even know each other if the plane landed in Los Angeles. Plus Kate was a fugitive. Jack talks about destiny again with "if it's meant to be it will happen." Hmmm so I guess he still thinks he will end up on the Island even if the plane lands in Los Angeles?
  • Jack says it's too late to get Kate back. and that Sawyer's 5 minute is up.
  • Sawyer gives up rationalizing and starts a fist fight. And believe it or not, this is really the first time we have seen Jack and Sawyer in a fight!

  • They are pretty evently matched for awhile, but Sawyer gets the upper hand and is ready to strangle Jack. He asks if Jack will stop and when Jack says no, Sawyer begins to beat his face in. That is, until Juliet stops it.
  • Juliet changed her mind to Sawyer's frustration. She now thinks that Jack HAS to do this. Long story short, Juliet changed her mind when he saw Sawyer look at Kate. He has never gotten over her. (that's cool, neither has Jack! Back to square 1!) Juliet thought that they love each other and Sawyer would never leave her if she let him. Just because they love each other doesn't mean they were meant to be together. So if Jack can make it so they never came there, maybe it is for the best. "If I never meet you, then I never have to lose you" Ouch, that's quite a breakup!
  • Meanwhile Jack and Kate have a moment near the Swan station. Kate tends to Jack asking if he remembers when she first sewed him up (Pilot episode). Seems like a million years ago. Kate: or 30 years from now! Nice.
  • Jack asked about the promise he made to Kate about not asking about Aaron. Kate was mad at Jack for bringing her back at the time. But now she explains she came back for Claire. Jack tries to convince her that if they stop the plane from ever crashing that Claire would land in Los Angeles. And maybe she wouldn't give up Aaron for adoption. What's meant to be is meant to be. Whew, I really hope this isn't how season 6 starts! Jack explains that nothing in his life has ever felt so right. He needs Kate to believe that.
  • They see smoke coming up from the Drill site. Jack knows it's about to happen. He asks if Kate is with them. If you recall from earlier this season Kate told Jack "I have always been with you" and once again she agrees to go with Jack. Here we go again! For good, worse or better the band is back together!

The Incident
  • Sayid tells Jack that the bomb is all set to go. According to Faraday, the bomb must be as close to the source of the electromagnetism.
  • Jack assures Sayid that this is going to work and save him. Sayid assures Jack that nothing can save him (I would guess from all of his past sins he has committed).
  • Jack loads up the bomb on his back, takes one longing look at Kate and then moves on alone. Runs into Sawyer and Juliet. "See you in Los Angeles"
  • Meanwhile Miles asks everyone to think about this the other way (as we have been discussing for weeks!). What if the explosion is exactly what causes the Incident in the first place? What if the best thing to do would be to do NOTHING at all? No one says anything. Another classic line. "Well I'm glad you all thought this through."
  • They all scout Phil in a DHARMA Jeep heading to the Swan to warn them of the infiltration. They all decide to team up and go help Jack. Ironically Juliet, one of the ones not present for the legendary speech, says "Live Together and Die Alone!" (probably why she misquoted adding that unnecessary "AND" in there!)
  • Back with Jack. There are guards at every point. Jack is sneaking his way in. But inevitably he gets caught in gunfire. Naturally it's annoying Phil that finds him! When all hope seems lost the DHARMA van full of our friends drive in opening the door and opening fire on Radzinsky and crew! An intense gun battle ensues. Kate gets some guards up top. Sawyer runs in and knocks Radzinsky out and takes Phil hostage! Time for some payback for slapping Juliet!
  • Our LOSTIES head in. Jack heads in to drop the bomb. They tell chang to turn the drill off. But it won't shut down. They hit the pocket and the magnetism is pulling the drill in. It's time!
  • Jack looks at Kate again, she's crying but nods him along. Sawyer looks at Juliet, she smiles. Jack drops the bomb. They brace for something to happen. And....nothing.
  • Then the Electro-magnetic event similar to season 2 begins. Sawyer - "This don't look like LAX!" All metal objects begin getting pulled into the hole. Chang's hand gets caught under metal. If you recall, he has a Prosthetic hand in the DHARMA SWAN Orientation Film. Is this the cause of it? And is that enough to prove that nothing has changed?
  • Miles rescues his father and tells him to get as far away as possible. Radzinsky flees but the jeep is getting pulled in. Phil was getting ready to kill Sawyer and he gets stabbed by some debris! YES!!!! The rest of DHARMA seems to get away as they should.
  • But Juliet gets wrapped in chains and pulled into the hole. Kate and Sawyer try to hold on and grab her. Juliet hangs on for awhile, crying but eventually gives in. She professes her love for Sawyer and falls many many feet to her supposed death. (The V - TV Series Remake calling?). Cue tears.
  • The metal is still being pulled in. Jack shakes off being knocked semi-unconscious. Kate is trying to pull off Sawyer from his sobbing on the top of the drill site. The drill gets pulled into the hole and we follow it down to see Juliet still there and still alive. But not in good shape. She's bloody and crying. She sees that the bomb was never detonated. It's still there. She finds a rock and decides to start banging at it. "COME ON!!!! COME ON!!!!!" "COME ON YOU SON OF A BIIIII#$#$"

  • The screen goes white


NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! That's where they leave us? You bet they do. And with a nice reverse color LOST title! Nice. I personally think there was enough shown to us that a complete reset is out of the realm of possibility. But it sure wasn't factored out indefinitely as was nothing! So what happened?
  • Did Sayid and Juliet survive?
  • Are they moved back to the same 2007 that Bizarro Locke, Sun, Ben and Frank are?
  • Obviously that version of 2007 showed that the Oceanic Crew DID indeed reside there. We saw Charlie's ring for proof. Would they really leave these events hanging on us the way they stood and then reset time so that it never happened? Or would there be some type of major course correction to insure that the hatch is STILL built and that events transpire as they are supposed to.
  • I'm willing to agree with Miles. They did exactly what they were always intended to do. So then the question is, who survives and where/when are they?
  • Of course, you throw in the Infinite Time Loop possibility and the Loophole, and maybe this was part of it. Maybe we are seeing them participate in said Loophole.
I don't know but I sure am psyched for 8.5 months from now to find out. And I'd love to hear your theories on the matter.

We have one season to go. We have been told Season 6 will be the season of answers. What questions are on your mind that need to be answered? Here's some of mine:
  • Who/What is the Smoke Monster?
  • Who/What is Christian Shephard's entity on the island?
  • Who are the Adam and Eve Skeletons and how did they end up there?
  • What is the story with the Black Rock and Jacob's involvement with it?
  • Why did Jacob recruit the Oceanic people for the Island?
  • WHAT is the Island?
  • What are the dreams and visions all about?
  • What are the ghosts all about?
  • Why can Hurley communicate with the dead? Are they REALLY the actual people that died or some other version of them? What about Miles speaking to the dead?
  • What is at the Temple? What IS the Temple?
  • Who will Kate end up with? Or will she end up dead?
  • Will Jack have to perform an ultimate sacrifice at the end of the show and be a tragic hero?
  • What is up with Walt's powers? Will he return to the Island and reconcile with a possible Ghost Dad? Or will Michael be alive in an alternate timeline.
  • Already dismissed by producers as not prominent, what was up with Libby at Hurley's Mental Institution? And is her husband David the same DAVE that was haunting Hurley's imagination?
  • Will we get to see all of our fallen 815ers again in season 6?
  • What is up with people not being able to be killed until their TASKS ARE DONE on the Island? Jack couldn't kill himself, Neither could Michael. Gunshots would go right through certain people.
  • Man, I could go on forever, but I'll save some for the comments!
Whew, I promised it would be a long blog and we have plenty of time to read and dissect. I am sorry for the long delay in getting the blog up. But I hope you have enjoyed my ramblings! Tune in this summer for occassional posts whenever we get some news from the producers. I'm guessing the first one will be after Comic-Con in July!



Updated as of 5/18/2009 - You guys asked for it, here it is!  My wonderful interview with ABC Action News in Tampa, Florida.  I will not let you guys forget that you made me post this!  :-)


Thanks everyone for all of your support with the blog, and welcome to all new readers! Please stick around and join into the discussion. We have 17 episodes left and a lot of questions to be answered. Let's not let the producers forget what the questions are! DISCUSS AWAY folks. I'll see you next year and NAMASTE!

This blog is also posted on Gather.com. Feel free to check it out and send some votes my way! You may also stumble upon additional discussions there!

Special thanks for
Get Lost Podcast Media, for providing the amazing screen shots from the episode on their site. They have loads of them!

234 comments:

1 – 200 of 234   Newer›   Newest»
Brendan said...

Mike V- first off great job as always with the blog! Of course i hav millions of questions but ill start u off with just one haha. We assume that when Ben goes to get judged by the island, that his daughter Alex telling him to do everything John Locke says is really smokey or some form of the island telling him. If this is the case, then wouldnt the island be able to tell that this isnt the real John Locke and that hes dead? If the island does kno all then wuld this mean that the island is in cahoots with Jacob's rival and is setting Ben out on a path to eventually kill Jacob?

Mike V. said...

Thanks Brendan! Well, that concept is under the theory that Smokey and Jacob are on the same side. What if they are AGAINST each other? Remember, we saw an engraving of Anubis and Smokey (god of the underworld) in Smokey's lair.

We saw Jacob living in the statue of possibly Tawereth which is the god of REBIRTH and Fertility LIFE. So we have LIFE vs. DEATH possibly on the Island. what if the Man in Black in the beginning is behind Smokey while Jacob IS in fact the Good Guy? So if that was the case...then Smokey would be helping Bizarro Locke's cause to recruit Ben to Kill Jacob.

Very bizarre stuff...but that's what seems to make the most sense to me right now!

Anonymous said...

Wow - fantastic recap, Mike. I enjoy reading almost as much as watching (almost!).

I posted last week that Faraday simply told Jack what he needed to hear in order to get him to detonate the bomb. I stand by that. It looked as though nothing was really going to happen without the bomb and Jack always succeeded, ergo, causing The Incident.

I still think there's something to the guitar case, too, but won't speculate any further than that.

My opinion at this point is that Jacob was referring to the eight people he met and touched off the island as those who were "coming". Sort of a warning to Bizarro Locke/Jacob's Rival. They went out of their way to show Jacob touching these people. So obviously this would mean Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Sayid, Sun, Jin, Locke, and Kate all end up together in '07 for some sort of showdown, ie, The War. Ilana is obviously part of this.

What is Charles Widmore's involvement then?

I want to further pontificate that the Smoke Monster/Bizarro Locke/Jacob's Rival are all the same. The Monster apparently can take the form of dead people (Locke and Alex) and perhaps this new dude that showed up talking to Jacob on the beach. Smokey Alex actually told Ben to do exactly as Locke ordered, hence he stabs Jacob. Smokey may have also taken over the use of the cabin to further his agenda (move the island, say "Help Me" to Locke) and that is why Ilana and Company burned it.

One other thing: I noticed in the cabin that the cloth with the statue on it was posted to the wall with a knife very similar to the one Jacob used to cut his fish. Nothing major but I think it reaffirms that Jacob definitely left it there as a message. Also, anyone else think that the picture also showed a structure that resembled a Temple next to the statue?

Mike I'm not sold on the Timeloop theory yet. I think this has been an ongoing war between good and evil for thousands of years and the latest battle began with the Black Rock and will end with our story now (Side note: according to "The Constant" - my favorite episode, but I digress - the Black Rock set sail in 1845, per the first mate's journal. If the ship shown in the beginning of the episode is in fact the Black Rock, we have a time frame for when the statue was still in full form). My guess would be Jacob and his Rival have been doing this over and over to prove who is "right" or wrong about the goodness of humanity, or something like that. Mr. Rival believes there is no progress and the result is always the same, ie, the humans end up killing each other. He wants Jacob dead because he's tired of playing out the same scenario after each War results in the same answer. Jacob believes each sequence of events leads to some form of progress and humanity improves.

But your Timeloop theory is duly noted. Again, great work; I love this blog!

~Tim

Anonymous said...

The smoke monster is the rival, the man in black, the guy that needs the loophole. He can become dead people. Christian, Ben's daughter, Locke etc...he is directing a lot of events to eventually be able to take over Locke's body and use the "loophole".

I think Jacob is touching each of the losties in their past to "mark" them. To be able to negotiate them to the island at a later date and to know where the are at all times, like a psychic GPS.

Also, when the Ajira folks are talking about "the candidate" and Ledpidus, they are talking about whether he is a good enough candidate for Jacob to take over his body....a la the man in black and Locke. I think Jacob knows he is going to die and told the Ajira folk and he will take over someone elses body, that is why he sort of goads Ben into killing him and doesn't try to really talk him out of it.

Anonymous said...

I think the post before is right. This is about Jacob bringing people to the island as a sort of test of society and that each time he doe it, he thinks, people are progressing and it is getting better each time. his rival disagrees and thinks it is the same every time. So, Jacob keeps bringing people to the island and the rival keeps trying to find a way to kill Jacob.

And even if the Swan is destroyed and their plane doesn't crash....Jacob will have fonund a different way to have brought them to the island. He has proven he has that ability.

Mike V. said...

Wow that's some good stuff right there both Tim and Anonymous! Good call on the Black Rock being 1845....i think I said something like 14/1500s lol whoops!

I like the "they are coming" referring to the 8 people he touched...that's pretty good!

Not sure about the temple on the cloth...I'll have to check that again.

But i did notice the knife being similar to Jacob's in the beginning....I meant to note that if I didn't!

as for the timeloop theory...it's not really my theory...it's a well versed theory that is already out there that I was citing as a possibility! lol I actually would prefer it if it WASN'T a loop and more like you said...the battle over time! I like that concept much better. But we'll see what happens!

Anonymous, good call with the Candidate...that is definitely a possibility. Funny how we always thought when they cast Jeff Fahey that he was going to be playing jacob due to the beard and long hair. It would be quite ironic if he BECAME him. lol

Mike V. said...

Last anonymous...I was with you for a second on resetting time...we saw Jacob go to all of these people PRE-CRASH and be involved in their lives...so even if the plan did land in L.A. they might still end up on the Island. The only catch? SAYID was Oceanic 6 timeframe. That doesn't mean that he didn't have interactions with Sayid before hand though.

I really just don't like that resetting of time thing...especially with seeing the Oceanic Wreckage in 2007 still there. There seems to be too much going on with the current state of things for them to wipe that out completely! AND they still didn't show us the big scene where someone in an outrigger was chasing our time jumpers out into the ocean. I would be very disappointed if we didn't see the other end of that scene due to some "erasing of time!" lol

Jen said...

Mike V, I've been anticipating all morning your recap of last night's finale...I'm trying to process everything that has happened because I have questions...be back later with those!

Anonymous said...

Hey Mike,

Just want to say it has been great reading your recaps all season and I hope to read them again in season 6.

Now my thoughts: I like the previous anonymous' posts about maybe the "they're coming" comment being about the O8 but here's my thing... Jacob and this Mr. Dark/Evil guy are like Gods... Perhaps the statue is themselves. As per their conversation in the beginning this "life" happens all the time, they come, they fight, they corrupt.

I think they are Gods having a fight over humanity - like we have seen with many mythological stories like in Greek, Roman, Egyptian and even Hindu... The Gods have their hands in humanity prodding and pushing each way to get what they want - but ultimately it IS free will.

As Jacob did visit everyone (with the exception of Juliet's flashback). He came to them at pivotal moments in their lives and with his blessing (by touching them) he says to them everything they are supposed to "learn" or redeem in a few simple words. For Kate it was "dont steal" then she would never have gone down that path - stealing, robbery, murder to then come to the island. For Hurley, to know that his mental state is not a curse but a blessing. For Jack to know that even tho his father didnt believe or love him (even tho I think Christian did in his own way - I just think parents don't know how to show it sometimes b/c of their own insecurities and faults) that Jacob or God loved him and believed in him. For Sayid, yes Nadia died but she had to - she should've in Iraq when she was being tortured maybe the car accident was course correction; but Sayid had to know loss and instead of grieving with hate he should've learned to grieve in love. For Sun and Jin, it was to know their love is powerful and they shouldnt take it for granted, but alas, they did. For Sawyer, he was to learn forgiveness and not be a conman.

It's all about progress as Jacob says, there is only one end.. Which means this supposed "timeloop" we're talking about is life. The Hindu references on Lost was to tell us - life is a cycle of birth and rebirth. And each time we go thru life, its a gift - to learn what our souls must learn in order to attain eternal life.

This Mr. Dark is a God of somesorts on the level with Jacob, he doesnt believe that, he wants to kill Jacob but cant himself, why? God's cant kill each other without a good reason. We've seen that in mythology. They must undertake a human to perform their duties. Maybe Mr. Dark also wanted to show that human kind can't progress that they will always succumb to human faults.

My one question to you and to anyone else who'd like to answer. What I don't get is if Jacob is God-like and all knowing, why so much as spit in Ben's face? Is it because Ben has done too much to be forgiven? When all Ben's life he has wanted love. Love from his father, love from friends (Annie), love from Jacob.

Jacob tells Ben he has a choice, but obviously Ben has already made his choice to follow Locke's instructions.

I don't know.

We see Ilana and Bram work for Jacob... Maybe they are disciples, spreading the word of God, but in the end - the war is coming: Mr. Dark/Locke v 2.0 vs. the rest of the Oceanic 8....

I just want to say kudos to "Darlton" for coming up with such amazing weave of fabric we call Lost - to integrate free will, destiny, love, hate, Gods, I mean just LIFE into this tapestry is an amazing art form. For that I am grateful for.

Thanks Mike again for your recaps. I still pose the question, if Jacob had shown just even an ounce of love to Ben, could things have gone different? Would Ben have left or would Ben have just killed Locke instead?

Mona

Anonymous said...

PS to anonymous, I think the "candidate" reference was just like to be included into the group. Just like how they tried to recruit Miles I think that's what Bram meant.

Mona

Anonymous said...

I think the simple explanation with the guitar is that they needed to recreate the original flight. The same reason Jack put his dads shoe's on Locke's feet. Hurley needed the guitar because Charlie had a guitar.

I also agree with Anonymous #2. Jacobs rival can appear as anyone. He was Christian on the island. He was Locke's dad on the island. Making himself look like certain people to put Locke on the journey of killing himself off the island, so he can steal Locke's identity to convince Ben to kill Jacob.

My first thought of Jacob and his Rival in the first seen was it was kind of like a God Vs Satan. And Jacob (God) through out time.. before the black rock ship, and many different times had brought people to the island as an experiment and Jacobs rival just says it's the same thing every time blah blah blah.

But i really like Mike V's theory that they are stuck in the time loop and are both trying to figure out ways to get out of it by pushing different people in different directions.

Either way it's a win lose next season because on one hand we get to find out every question we have (hopefully) and the other hand my favorite show is ending...

gnni4 said...

WOW!

Too much going through my mind right now.

I have never believed in a reset, just that whatever happened, happened.

I have always questioned the Adam and Eve, someone had to put them there, they didn't just lay down and die there. I have wondered more who put them there than who they are.

I think that the black shirt man IS the smoke monster/Locke/any other vision. But who is he? Pure evil?

I'm still confused by the Egyption stuff, and afraid that they are going to Stargate somehow with reptilian otherworlds. I think I will be disapointed if they do.

I wish that I could have seen your interview, was it fun?

I'm PO'd about Juliet, and I don't accept her reasoning, since she says that James would stay with her forever, and than that if she never meets him he can't ever leave her. I just don't like it. It makes me mad. Kate just is not that great. Sawyer really loved Juliet, and doesn't deserve to be heartbroken. My son (who is 10) was so mad that he doesn't want to watch Lost anymore...(Right, sure, that won't last).

Glad to see Rose and Bernard and Vincent. Bernard looked good. I can see them hiding from the searchers, but Vincent and there cabin? I think it was a nice way to wrap it up, but implausable.

My questions I want answered...
There are too many.

For now, just gotta keep saying,
WOW!

Jennifer

Leanne said...

I was kind of annoyed that Locke ended up being Smokey/Esau/whoever. I agreed with Locke's sentiment in recent episodes that it was ridiculous of Ben and the others to take orders from Jacob without ever seeing him or questioning him. I liked that mysterious Jacob was finally going to be held accountable. And when it seemed to end Mr. Dark ended up being fakeLocke and the bad guy, and "don't question" being the moral, I was disappointed.

Beatriz said...

Hey Mike as ususal great recap and lots to think about. As we know in the Bible, Jacob had a fraternal twin brother Esau. They were rivals and were very different. jacob was loved but Esau was not and he resented his brother for being the favorite.Issac their father made Esau promise not to kill his brother as he had planned to do so.It is my thinking that Esau has tried to look for a loophole to kill his brother jacob and that he utilized certain people to accomplished his goal. He utilized Ben, Smokey and Bizzaro Locke(As you call him) I think he personificated into Smokey to kill people and he personificated into John Locke to convince Ben to kill Jacob.

Ben thought he was obeying Jacob but in reality he was obeying Esau.

I can' t wai tuntil next season and get all the answers to these mysteries.

cdstedman said...

The first conversation between the man in black (who is in control of the island) and Jacob (trying to overthrow the evil man in black) is the key to everything that’s brought the 815ers to the island and this eternal war between good and evil. Let’s break it down.

Jacob “I take it you’re here because of the ship.”
Man in black “I am. How did the find the island.”
Jacob “You’ll have to ask them when they get here.”
Black “I don’t have to ask. You brought them here.”

In every flashback we saw Jacob guide our heroes an important moment in each of their lives. My guess is this was just the start of his influence with them.

Black “You’re trying to prove me wrong aren’t you?”
Jacob “You are wrong.”
Black “Am I?”

These are the two main players. Whatever rules they have for their war they can’t directly hurt each other. What is the man in black wrong about, probably he thinks the mere mortal of the world can’t hurt him.

Black “They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt, and it always ends the same.”
Jacob “It only ends once, anything that happens before that is just progress.”

Mike it’s not a time loop. Just like we saw Jacob mess with the 815er he did the same to Dharma, the crew of the black rock and probably countless others before. Jacob just keeps bringing people to the island and every time he does he gets closer to taking out the man in black. And it only has to happen once.

Black “You have any idea how badly I want to kill you?”
Jacob “Yes.”
Black “One of these days sooner or later, I’m going to find a loophole my friend.”
Jacob “Well when you do I’ll be right here.”

He knows Jacob is getting closer to succeeding and needs to take him out first which as we saw he did.

Black “Always nice talking to you Jacob.”
Jacob “Nice talking to you to.”

Manners between enemies, you got to love it.

With Jacob gone what’s next, my guess next season one the 815ers will step up to take Jacobs place and finally take out the man in black. Because like Jacob said they are coming.

MJ said...

I loved the ep. I am reading alot of frustrated peeps on the web - but come on - we knew they wouldn't tell us everything ! Where would the fun be in that.

I would add that I want to know why Aaron is so important. Also - who are is the other group at the temple ? Are they ever going to edplaing the child-napping? I've been expecting to meet Tom/Mr. Friendly in the 70's and am disappointed we didn't.

I'm very intrigued by the little promo for next year !

MJ said...

What is baking my noodle now is this - originally we see Richard tell Locke that he has to leave the island and bring his peeps back - and he has to die to do it.

Last week we see that it was re-born Locke who told Richard to say it. Making it so that Locke was sorta controlling his own future and past.

But NOW we are left to assume that it's really black tunic guy who tells fake Locke to tell Richard to tell Locke. So - what - the island never wanted John to die? Jacob didn't want John to die ? Richard was basicly tricked into killing his future leader ?

SimpleZeal said...

Great recap ... Some comments.

I was perplexed at how naïve Jack is to cause an incident like exploding a hydrogen bomb. Sure you need to get past everything that happened between you and Kate, as he made clear in last episode. But that does not give him right to cause an incident like this. In the previous seasons Jack was always the voice of reason even when people around him were driven by other feelings - Locke by unknown destiny, Sawyer by self-interest (mostly :-) ), Charlie by drug, etc. You get the idea. But this season, Jack is here for the ride and has given up on reasoning. I would never expect Jack of Season 1 to drop a hydrogen bomb just because it "might" help.

Juliet and Sawyer were interesting couple this season. Sawyer was clearly not over Kate and Juliet always knew that. So why does she get all worked up when Sawyer stole a glance at her. What she did in the end was good, again selfish like Jack but good. Sawyer always has done what the women he cared about – be it Juliet or Kate, has told him to do. Step up dude, for once stop doing something because either of the chicks want it. Do something because you want it.

Kate really needs to define her priorities. All thro' series she has used Jack Vs Sawyer rivalry to her advantage. When one does not listen, go to other one and he'll do as she wishes. At some point these guys need to see past her. The whole point about coming back to island for Aaron was weak. She did come back for Sawyer. What has she done since she came back on the island to look for Aaron's mother? Did she even try to get back in 2007? Why is she stopping Jack from doing something which might be the only thing that might set things straight? I know she agrees in the end ... but when Jack intitially proposed this in previous episode, all she could think was that she'll loose what she had between him and her.

Jin and Sun didn’t have to do much this season other than asking questions and look surprised. Hope she does better next season. Same thing for Ben.

Sayid did what he always does – follow his instinct and kill. Dude, take a break from emotions and look at the big picture. You are the only hope of science on the island after Daniel and there is no one left to fix anything more technical than a knife.

Hurley, the voice of reason on the island has a partner – Miles. I am happy for you guys. Keep bringing sensibility to all others on the island.

Jacob, finally glad to see some expression other than just I am cool towards the end of the season. Also manipulating characters by using force and not logic / knowledge was something you haven’t done in the past. I have high hopes from you next year. Take revenge on John Locke next year.

Rose and Bernard did awesome job of reminding people what life is all about – doesn’t matter where you are and which time you are in, as long as you are surrounded by people you love, that’s all matters. What a performance…

Finally, last but not the least – John Locke. You were full of surprises this season. Finale explained it all. I am glad the writers combed your I-don’t-know-what-i-am-doing-but-I’ll-keep-on-doing-it-until-i-get-frustrated skill with your defined purpose this season. However, you passed your skill to Ben this season which was funny in lot of ways.

Side note - Does anyone recognize the pen that Jacob gave to Sawyer? It seemed familiar to me. Did Locke have it at some point?

Weasel said...

1) Bizzaro Locke = Smoke Monster

2) How many roads can there possibly be to the Swan station on this island. They are in the van on the road on the way to the Swan station. Then you see Phil and company on a road to the Swan station that is not the same road that they are on. hmmm.

As a side note, did you watch the recap hour before the finale? I think they answered quite a few questions there... not that I can remember what they were after watching the finale. But I know when I was watching it is was saying to myself: Ha! that's what we were talking about on the blog. If you recorded that, would you mind doing a short recap in the discussion here as to what they may have covered what we were contemplating?! Please???!!!!

Mike V. said...

Thanks for the comments and compliments everyone! I'm agreeing with mostly what everyone is saying! Bad Guy = Man in Black/possibly named Esau/possibly the smoke monster who has been an apparition of many characters. It all makes sense.

Let me state once again...I am not a promoter of the TIME LOOP theory. I just brought it up as a possibility! I much rather prefer the progression over time to the eventual conclusion. And I'm loving the concept of "THEY ARE COMING" referring to the LOSTIES.

The Interview? Yeah it was fun and went very quickly. I was making some on the spot crazy theories and didn't have time to digest the whole episode so it probably is all irrelevant by now! But it was still a good time. They are sending me a DVD, so when I get it I'm going to see if I can post it somehow.

Stedman...liking your thoughts that Man in Black is the one in charge right now and Jacob has been trying to overthrow. Of course, that doesn't explain how Ben summoned the Smoke Monster (if man in black IS smoke monster). Just a little side thought coming into my head.

Very intriguing stuff all around. MJ, yeah I'm confused about the Locke contingent too...especially if Jacob "touched" all of these people to be on his side...Locke would have been one of them. But now the REAL Locke is dead. So now what?

hmmm...I wonder if everyone Jacob touched were the ones that survived Flight 815? Because clearly not EVERYONE escaped with superficial wounds. And of course, Locke was cured of paralysis. Oh well...I'm just all over the place right now!

I'll stop while I'm behind and re-gather my thoughts again! lol

Mike V. said...

Simple Zeal...thanks for sharing your comments...good stuff! The pen? Eh I dunno...I was thinking about that too. But I just don't remember any significant pens in past episodes! lol

Weasel, I'm on BLOG hiatus now! Come on man!! lol I did watch the recap though and thought the same thing...so if I happen to remember anything, I'll be sure to bring it up! :-)

cdstedman said...

I agree with what someone else said, the smoke monster is a wild card. Dark Locke didn’t know about Ben seeing Alex or her telling Ben to follow him. So I don’t think he is smokey or it works for him.

Weasel said...

cdstedman: He could have just been pretending not to know about the ghost Alex. Otherwise Ben would have wondered how he knew...

cdstedman said...

Weasel,
Maybe, but why pretend not to know about that and than flaunt the knowledge of other events that the island told him like when and where he needed medical attention at the drug plane. Of course Locke did say he wasn’t worried about anything Ben did anymore. Is that because he knew Ben would follow him anywhere? Did I just kill my own argument? lol

ALBY said...

CDSTEDMAN...YOU NAILED IT!!!!!!!!

Everything you really need to know about Lost was shown in the beginning scenes between Jacob and his rival.

This epic battle is the essence of Lost and puts the whole sow in context ...everything else is just smoke(pun intended) and mirrors.

The only thing left to resolve will be the battle between the next Jacob and his rival to recapture the island.

Our Lost crew has just been a bunch of pawns in a game of good versus evil ...and we all know that good wins in the end.

Its obvious that from this point forward CDSTEDMAN should replace Mike...given his keen insight...much like Evil Locke is replacing Jacob.

Sorry Mike... you did a great job but its time to step aside for the new Mike...who goes by the name CDSTEDMAN.

See you at the foot of the four toed statue!!!!

Mike V. said...

I was thinking along the same lines...Locke seemed to be surprised by certain things along the way...was he just playing dumb or was that the real John locke shining through? Remember there was also the Statue where John was like "why are we stopping?" we know that Man in black had been there before!

one of the things from the recap I remember was that they said because they didn't replicate the circumstances exactly the way they needed to be caused some to go to 1977 and some to 2007. They also kinda confirmed that Sayid receiving the radio transmission from the 1940's in season 2 was time travel related...they're trying to establish the fact that it was part of the plan all along. I remember thinking in season 2 though that it was really just a joke and that the signal could have been bouncing along for many years. But whatever...I'll attribute it to the TIME elements of the island now. Why not? lol

Team Darlton also wrapped up the hour by saying that finding out how all of these characters' lives are intertwined has always been a big part of the saga that needs to be explained and that is what they will be exploring in the final season. That the best part of the journey is still ahead of us. Can't Wait!!

Mike V. said...

Thanks Alby, as much as I appreciate CDSTEDMAN'S great Contributions to the LOST Addicts Blog, I think I'll keep annoying you with my less than keen insights as well! lol

cdstedman said...

Thanks Alby,
Glad you agree with my theory. But Mike’s not going anywhere. He does a great job recapping and I’m happy just contributing to the comments. Besides, if you’ve been around the blog the last couple of years my keen insight has thrown some crazy theories against the wall and few have stuck. Maybe if I had a better grasp of physics they would have been better. ;)

Mike V. said...

ahhh do we think the lost addicts blog addict is still lurking out there in silence? lol

Ian said...

Man, I hope I can post my theories before someone else writes the same thing! This comments section is filling up fast! Here are some of my thoughts:

I think I'm onboard with Bizarro Locke/Jacob's rival being Smokey. Remember when Ben summoned Smokey and the only thing that came out of the jungle was Locke? I think that was a hint. I'm kind of disappointed to learn that Locke is still dead, as he's my favorite character and all. It'd be sad if Locke's life ended with Ben killing him after all he'd been through searching for a purpose. Then again, as you noted, B. Locke seems to have all of the real Locke's memories. Is the real Locke's spirit still living, or did it do the whole memory-scan thing with him like it did with Eko?

Also, what to make of Locke's childhood drawing of the smoke monster, or his encounter with it in their early days on the island? Does Locke somehow have a connection with Smokey?

And what about Smokey's characteristics as a judge? Is that why Jacob's rival seems to look at the evil in people? Is Jacob the one who wants to redeem people while his rival wants to condemn them?

Remember earlier this season when Daniel visited Desmond at the Swan while time-jumping, and then off-island Desmond suddenly remembered the instructions Daniel had given him? It makes me wonder if there are multiple connected timelines that happen simultaneously and affect each other. Shortly after Ben kills Jacob, Juliet detonates the bomb. Were those just two dramatic endings for both timelines, or are they somehow connected? Did Jacob have to die in order for the LOSTies in 1977 to be able to return? Does any of that make sense? I came up with it myself and I'm not even sure if it does.

I still have to believe there's no way they can just reset time like they're hoping to. Everything seems to be playing out according to plan. Look at Chang's hand injury. He may have been sucked into the pit with all the metal if Miles hadn't been there to help him. Obviously, we know Chang survives to make the orientation videos.

Perhaps our LOSTies are each going to experience some sort of time-jump like Desmond did after he turned the failsafe key. Perhaps they'll instantaneously be shifted to 2007 at the moment of detonation because the island has a bigger purpose for them. That'll leave the DHARMA initiative to clean up their mess. But what does it mean for the electromagnetic source? Did they destroy it? Did the radiation somehow magnify its power? Does it explain how they're somehow able to keep it at bay by pushing a button every 108 minutes?

Heck, that leads me to another question: What exactly happened after Desmond turned the failsafe key? It was never really clear to me how the hatch imploded but he, Locke, Charlie and Eko all survived with barely a scratch.

Then there's Lapidus. Maybe the thing he's a "candidate" for is to replace Jacob, as someone suggested. Perhaps that's why Smokey killed the other pilot who was flying 815 in Lapidus' place. He thought it was the guy Jacob was looking for.

Sorry to write a novel here! There's just so much to theorize about for the next eight months!

Mike V. said...

Ian, I'll have to read your post later as I gotta run...but I was reading Doc Jensen:

can't believe I totally didn't even mention this in the recap!

"RICHARD ALPERT The ageless enigma told Jack that he had traveled away from the Island three times in the 20 years between Jughead ’54 and Dharma ’77. He said two of those trips were to scout out John Locke; we saw both those trips last season in “Cabin Fever.” So, when was the third trip, and what was the purpose?"

AUStarwars said...

Mike,

Great as usual, helps keep things square in my mind. Overall I thought the episode was lacking as a season finale, simply because it answered almost nothing and did not really bookend the season.

That being said, clearly the Jacob (Jesus or G-d, or some god) and Esau (Smokey, the Devil, some god) conflict is the big reveal and here are my thoughts:

1. Esau/the Devil=Smokey. I know this has been stated a lot already, but it is fairly obvious. The line of "I have done a lot to make this so (or whatever he says)" is reference to Smokey becomming all these ghostly influences on the island to put people on the path (Christian, Kate's Horse, Hurley's friend, etc) to bring them all to this point. He cannot kill Jacob because they represent not only sides of a coin, but their battle is spiritual, the battle in a man's soul. Smokey will win when a man of his own free will turns from the light, turns from G-d, and destroys Jacob, both literally and figuratively.

2. Time Loops may exist, but I agree that the Oceanic passengers are another in a long line of travelers brought to the island for a spiritual conflict. I am not good at religious metaphors but I seem to remember something along the lines that the struggle for good and evil is in every one of us. That struggle is related to Free Will, which Jacob brings up many times, most notably to Ben. I think what Smokey is saying in the beginning is that it always ends the same, man chooses to give in to its conflict nature and thus "choose evil" each time. Jacob still holds out hope that each man can make a choice and choose to be good/redemption and can lead others along this path.

3. That all being said, we have seen Smokey scan people for years, looking for a way to "become them" if they have not been redeemed, and when he looses use of them, he kills them. Clearly each entity interacts with mankind in either overt (Smokey and the Devil in religion) or hidden way (Jacob, Jesus, G-d) way.

4. You cannot help but think about The Stand by Stephen King as you watched this episode. I am not going to get into the whole story, but clearly it was a massive influence on the writers.

5. So where does this leave us? I feel that Jacob caused the time shift to the Losties going to 1977, either to continue the stated loop or give him and out to this "death." Clearly "They are Coming" is in reference to our friends in 1977.

phew..

Jerry and Stacie said...

Hey Mike! I just ran across your blog a couple of weeks ago, but have thoroughly enjoyed your recaps! Thought I might bring up something that no one else has really mentioned. Richard (as far as we know) has been a very honest part of the island, meaning that it SEEMS that he has never lied. If this is the case, can we not assume he is being honest about witnessing at least Hurley, Kate, and Jack dying(since they are the ones he is looking at in the 1977 photograph)? This would mean that these three died sometime in the past, and that they wouldn't be who Jacob was referring to when he said, "They are coming."

Also, LOVING the idea that Richard came from the Black Rock!

My second idea is that Charles Widmore is obviously not on the side of Jacob. The Ajira crew led by Ilana appear to be followers of Jacob, and these are the same people that tried to recruit Miles AWAY from Charles Widmore! Wouldn't that mean that they are on opposing sides?! Wow, I'm getting excited for next season!!

cdstedman said...

Mike,
Richard visited Locke at his birth, as a child when he showed him the compass, and as a teenager because of his science project (he didn’t actually visit him but midelton laboratories tried to recruit him.)

ALBY said...

ANOTHER POINT THAT MIKE MISSED.....

The last scene from last nights episode was a close up of any eye...but whose eye.

If its Jack's...which I believe it is...that would indicate that THEY returned to 2007.

Remember, the first scene of this years first episode was a close up of Jack's eye(s)...this is an obvious clue that THEY have returned ..just like Jacob said.

I am sure that CDSTEDMAN would have mentioned this eventually.

Since Mike somehow missed this key scene I thought I should post for all to review.

I guess Mike was to busy with his close up...

They're back...let the fun begin!!!!

brykupono said...

Ian said: Remember when Ben summoned Smokey and the only thing that came out of the jungle was Locke? I think that was a hint.

Anybody else think this guy has it absolutely right?

@Mike V. - Thanks for all your efforts with the site!

Anonymous said...

Richard was seen recruiting Juliet. Is that the third time?

Mike V. said...

Didn't miss the eye alby. But you may have missed the fact that that was a tease for next year after they already cut to the LOST title. I don't recap previews.

Stedman, I actually just meant I missed covering Richards conversation with jack lol but good call on the 3 appearances. I guess I quoted too much of the doc there!

Just checking from my phone real quick right now but thanks everyone for the props! I will catch up with comments tomorrow sometime!

BDA said...

Great recap, Mike. When Richard knocked Eloise out, he said he was protecting his leader. Was he referring to Eloise or Richard (the baby daddy)?

Kathleen said...

Mike,

Thanks for a great season of commentary and wrap-up. This show is just too complicated for my simple brain to follow all the twists and turns on my own.

Good versus evil has been the theme of mankind's artistic expression though the ages. The Bible, Shakespeare, Dickens and Dante -- to name a few of the greats from the English language --paid tribute to the struggle of the human will to do what is right and good. Medieval and Greek morality plays followed this theme. Now we have a morality play for the 21st. century. What a trip!

Kathleen

P.S. SimpleZeal, the pen looked familiar to me, also. Did we see a grown-up Sawyer use it?

Asif said...

wow too much to process...
I just have a few thoughts on my mind, which might actually not make any sense at all... I think we will know more when we find out why Ben caused Whidmore to have to leave the island. They have some sort of agreement not to kill each other and it resembles Jacob and the other guy's relationship.
Another thing relating to this is why Ben is the leader chosen by Jacob via Richard (I think Ben was actually saved by Jacob when he was shot as a kid)and yet he also uses the smoke monster? If the smoke monster is Jacob's enemy then why does Jacob allow Ben to use it? Furthermore why would Richard not intervene if he is on Jacob's side? That's why I'm not sure with the theories that Jacob's enemy is the smoke monster and this in turn takes on the shape of people who may have died on the island...
Another strange thought on the loophole this time. I think it may be that the two cannot kill each other or have the other killed by someone else. They can only be killed if they themselves commit "suicide". Gods in mythology are generally immortal, but do sometimes die... That's why Locke is so important, as unlike with the other people, Jacob actually brought John back to life, and therefore Jacob's enemy can take over his body and it is like being part of Jacob. But as Locke now has in him part of Jacob and part of his enemy, he still cannot kill Jacob. He then convinces Ben to kill Jacob, as Jacob had brought back little wounded Ben to life, and therefore it is like Jacob killing himself, ergo "suicide"...this might just be crazy thoughts, but hey that's the great thing about Lost isn't it!?!?! :)

Anonymous said...

Well i don't think jacob is good as he seems..he is supposed to be like all knowing but he tells each of the ones that he touches to do the opposite of what he knows they will do that turns out to be bad ... for example he tells kate to never steal again ..but she does...he tells hurley that he is blessed,...when he is actually cursed...he tells jin and son that their love will blah blah...and we know that it won't....

SimpleZeal said...

@Kathleen: You might be right... may be when they were living on the beach.

Anonymous said...

Hello -- I'm new to this site since learning of it on the news in Tampa last night!

Here's what's kicking around in my head -- feel free to pick this apart.....

Who's to say Richard Alpert is on Jacob's side? He brought the orders from Jacob to Ben. Were they really from Jacob? That's a lot of "dark" eyeliner there, and Ben never SAW Jacob. Ben has stated very clearly in earlier seasons that his group is "the good guys." Is this something upon which he was raised after being removed from the peace seeking communal environment that had an uneasy truce with Richard's people? e.g. Is the Dharma Initiative one of Jacob's recruited groups? Remember, Richard also commented to Ben last night that on the three visits to John Locke before adulthood, Richard didn't think John was really that special -- perhaps trying to spark a jealousy or resentment again in Ben. He also pointed out to Alana that the ones who claim to be the good guys generally aren't. (irony?)

Is the temple where the black smoke lives the same place as the base of the four-toed statue? I never thought they were, since the statue base is at the beach and the smoke's temple seemed to be in the jungle somewhere. I have looked at these as the two separate corners or home-bases (for lack of more sophisticated terms).

Are Jacob and the other guy perhaps spiritual entities represented by human form until that particular human form is destroyed? Perhaps John Locke was chosen by Jacob to be the next human form of good, but that became compromised and that's what Jacob was asking Alana to remedy. Richard commented to last night's "John Locke" that Jacob would have come to him if he had waited. Could this have meant Richard and this incarnation of "the dark side" (sorry) are on the same side and Richard somehow knows it?

I am not sure how the Charles Widmore / Ben rivalry plays into this theory unless they are somehow human forms of these oppositions from the past.

Also, Eloise is pregnant in 1977. Is that baby Daniel Faraday, or is it perhaps Penny? Charles Widmore is Penny's father, too....

gnni4 said...

The third trip Richard made was with Ethan Rom to recruite Juliette.
Speaking of Ethan, where has Ethan been for the last few episodes, we saw him as a teen (almost) with Ben when he stole Alex, but haven't seen him since. That was the future, in 77 he was still a baby, living with Amy and Horace, right? Horace was still on the island, so did Ethan get tossed on the sub with his mom, or is he still in Dharmaville. He ends up with Ben as a teen causing trouble, so does he come back or was he there all along?

Was Elle the leader and NOT Charles? I found that very interesting. Also that Richard was going to take her back the way they came, and she would be made when she woke up. Back the way they came was under water. Wouldn't she drown if he swam her out while she was unconcious?

I gotta watch that episode again, it just messed with my brain. I keep thinking about more stuff.

I still want to know about Mr. Friendly, B. Clue, Mikhail, that glass eye, why Cindy and the kids and all were supposed to watch. I want some answers! I am not a patient woman, I don't want to wait for some of this stuff.

Lordy, 8.5 months? How are we going to make it?

Mike, will you still blog about something until the next season, I don't think I can go that long without Lost or my Thursday morning read.

Anonymous said...

Jacob is the good guy he lives under the statue.
the other guy is the bad guy only allowed in smoke form. a curse created by jacob.
The other guy lived in that house with the powder around it when that seal was broken he was free.

Thats why he threatened ben to help john locke. because im guessing jacob and the other guy cant kill each other but maybe can get someone else to.

Miles was right they were the reason the incident happened. and now history will repeat its self.

its all a test between jacob (good) and bizarro locke (bad)

but in season 6 (bad) is in control.

so instead of repeating itself the way it has. this time it will be different.

Anonymous said...

He just wanted to say that i really enjoyed your blog and had a question referring to the loophole used to kill jacob...The man in the black obviously says he will find a loophole to start off the show we know that at one point ben tells locke that once jacobs makes a leader leave he is banished and may not return to the island we also see in the episode that in 1977 elloise hawkings is the leader as richard says it to jack and syaid when they get the bomb we know that elloise knows how to find the island as she helps them find it but makes no attempt to go back since she left and im not sure id have to ask you but i think charles wittmore was a leader at some point and he sends a boat to find the island but doesnt go back himself so my question is getting ben a former leader to go back to the island with locke the new leader the loophole the man in the black needed to kill jacob almost like all other leaders were willing to follow jacobs wishes yet ben wasnt which is why he is able to kill him i dont know sorry so longwinded but just like to hear your thoughts thanks

Anonymous said...

so that's why sun didn't time travel. jacob didn't touch her!

Anonymous said...

If the statue was sobek, sobek was a god who preferred to nudge and manipulate other gods into doing the work from a distance taking a more tweaking role. Surely that fits
Jacob quite well! And is it only me that thinks Jacob wanted to be killed by Ben!!!

Steve said...

The cabin that Illana goes to, which is supposed to be 'Jacob's' cabin, is the same cabin that Rose and Bernard were living in right?

I took a screen shot of a painting, it looks like Vincent.
(I tried to post it, but it won't allow that html tag)

If I remember correctly, this was supposed to be the cabin that Horace built? We haven't seen him build it yet tho so I'm not sure.

Personally, I don't think that it was ever Jacob in the cabin. I thik the other character has been trying to manipulate people all along working to get to the point that we're at now (progressing :D ) towards finding the loophole that will allow him to kill Jacob.

Seeing how Jacob seems to be so 'powerful', I thought it seemed too convenient that Ben was able to dispose of him so easily. I thought the same with getting off of the submarine, it was too convenient.

Gary said...

the 3rd trip was not to recruit juliet, because he said from '54 to '77, that was in the 90's that they recruit juliet

Gary said...

steve- interesting thought, but i am pretty sure that rose and bernard are not living in the same cabin that was supposedly jacob's cabin.

anonymous- jacob did touch sun. he touched them both at the alter.

other anonymous- not to be mean, but try some punctuation, its strenuous just to read that comment...

Mike V. said...

Yikes, lots to catch up on!

Ian, well we know Smokey probably did a "memory scan" or whatever it does early in season one when Locke looked into the "EYE" of the island and what he saw was beautiful. But obviously that wouldn't factor in NEW memories after that would it? So I don't know if that's how it works. Here's a thought...maybe Man in Black/Esau/whoever went to visit locke OFF-island as a boy as well which led to the drawing of smokey. (this is considering Jacob and Man in Black do indeed represent 2 different entities) As for THE INCIDENT itself...yep...I always thought it would lead to them traveling through time back to where they belong a la Desmond's time travel experience when blowing up the hatch. Exposure to radiation and electromagnetism seems to trigger time travelish events according to Daniel Faraday in THE CONSTANT....so it would seem to fit. Also, maybe we will see Richard having watched the explosion from further away and saw all of our LOSTIES in that area when it went off...and assumed they all died. as for what happened to Locke and Eko and Dez after the Hatch implosion? I was patiently waiting for an answer to that too...I don't think it's coming! lol

AUStar Wars...great thoughts! Agree with everyone on the ultimate battle of good (god) vs evil (satan)....the themes are pretty clear on that! I agree that Jacob may have had something to do with our LOSTIES being in the past.....i think someone mentioned below that Sun wasn't touched by Jacob in the wedding flashback...she was! Or else I would have thought the same about her not being in 1977...Apparently, based on the 1 hour recap that preceded the finale...we are supposed to believe that they didn't 100% recreate the circumstances of the 815 crash which split up our survivors. I dunno...seems a little sketchy but I guess it's vague enough to work! lol

Jerry/Stacie....Yeah, i guess you're right...if Widmore is not on Ilana/Jacob's side...then it would seem that they ARE on the other side. Someone else below mentioned Ellie being the leader of the others...which Richard did pretty much confirm in the finale....but Widmore seems to have been the leader at the same time as well didn't he? Maybe this is why Richard was so adamant to bizarro Locke that there cannot be 2 leaders at one time....perhaps Ellie and Charles subscribed to different philosophies (Jacob vs. Man in Black)...ahhhh fascinating!! (BDA...I suppose you meant protecting CHARLES right? Anyway, see my new theory above LOL)

Asif...i was thinking similar to Jacob saving Ben...or maybe it's the other way around...maybe SMOKEY/Man in Black saved Ben which is why Jacob kinda shuns Ben his whole life???

Nice! We got a TAMPA viewer!! I'm so glad you stuck around somehow after my crazy thoughts I dumped out LIVE on air! Welcome! One thing to note that was pointed out to me as well....Richard's Eyeliner?? It's just the actor's DARK EYES....Nestor Carbonell (the actor) came out and said it himself. As for the Temple and the Statue...hmmmm...they are definitely 2 different locations...but perhaps they are represented by 2 different factions? Richard did say some of their people were at the TEMPLE while some were on the beach. I believe the Temple will be a centerpiece of season 6...or at least we will need to go there for the FINALE.

man there are so many comments I know I'm missing stuff! gnni4...I will be blogging but not as frequently. I'll comment here on this post....and when we start getting more intel from the producers...i will post new blogs (probably won't be until July sometime though)....definitely keep the site bookmarked and keep coming and sharing your thoughts whenever you think of something!

one of the Anonymouses. It is interesting to note that Jacob was telling our LOSTIES things that we know they went on to do anyway. Maybe he was setting them on a course of evil...or maybe he was still trying to see the optimism in people. As Doc Jensen noted...it is interesting to see the differences in how he treated each encounter. I apologized to Locke and Sawyer that these things happened. He wanted to give Jack a PUSH....he told Kate not to steal (she robs a bank), and Jin/Sun to be true to each other (sun has an affair).....and he barely talks to Sayid at all. kinda crazy!

And Steve...Rose and Bernard weren't living in the Cabin...they've had 3 years to built a nice shelter for themselves...but yes Horace built the cabin we've been referring to as Jacob's cabin! That picture of the dog was in there in the season 3 episode "Man behind the curtain"...you can probably check my archived blogs to find a screen cap...we may have talked about vincent back then too lol

i have tons of more thoughts to share...but my fingers need a break! Thanks everyone for your compliments on the blog and you're very welcome for YOUR thanks to me! I love doing writing this thing and the discussions that come out of it. Keep it up!

Mike V. said...

okay 3 Richard/Locke visits...Birth, as a kid at the "orphanage" or whatever...and agree with stedman that it was probably MITTLEOS (anagram for LOST Time stedman!) Bio Science or Labs or whatever they were called then. Yes, we didn't see Richard actually visiting Locke but we do know from his visit to Juliet in 2001 (not the 90's!) that he is behind Mittleos BioScience. So that has to be the 3 visits.

Mike V. said...

whoops...forgot to specify that it was the OFFER in High school for SCIENCE CAMP by Mittleos (3rd visit)

Mike V. said...

Just one more small note of thanks...we're about 250 hits away from 100,000 since 2007 (the blog was around a year before that too but it was a pretty small audience)! The blog has kept growing every year....and we had an amazing 4200 hits yesterday!

Thanks everyone for finding the blog and sticking around! You all rock!

berdugo751 said...

Are there any similarities between Episode 16 and the biblical story of Jacob and Esau. After Jacob deceived his blind father, Isaac, into thinking he was Esau, Isaac gave him all of the blessings and power to rule over others, including Esau. Esau was so mad that he vowed to one day kill Jacob once his father was dead. So to prevent this, their mother sent Esau away so that he could cool down.

Black Sand said...

Jacob and the Man in the Dark Clothing...

I'm going back to my initial theory about LOST - as an in between spot. A place you go when you have unfinished business, before you can move on. All the biblical references support my theory and the supposed healing powers of the island.

Jacob is like God in a sense and the other guy is like the devil. They can not kill one another. Jacob is convinced that we can live in Harmony without causing destruction and "Dark Tunic" assumes the worse...and, he is proven right - time and time again...

Ben had been a true follower doing what he must do in the name of an unknown higher being (sound familiar) that he was never able to see or touch and, such is life bad things had befallen him which broke his resolve - where "Dark Tunic" or Psuedo Locke swoops in and says pretty much - bite the apple! bite the apple! lol I'm getting ahead of myself - anywho - I believe Dark Tunic, Psuedo Locke, Christian, and the Smoke Monster are one... And, since he can not harm Jacob directly he has to use one of Jacob's followers to do it.

Get it?

Jacob came to each of the Oceanic crew at a trying time in their lives. Watching over them, knowing what they were going to do, yet not preventing them from doing it and hoping the best. Which is why Psuedo Locke/Dark Tunic since he has similar if not the same abilities..he was able to know when Locke would come out of the jungle...and trick Richard.

The latin lends to my biblical theory (and, I know you guys remember Mr. Ecko and his stick - Oh! How I miss him!) anyhow, continuing on...that's why Jacob can speak so many languages and fluently!

As for Ilyana or whatever her name is - I have a few theories about her miraculous recovery...I will back when my thoughts arent so jumblede - I've gotta run - glad i found this blog!

Gary said...

mike v- good thinking on why jacob shuns ben his whole life. Maybe thats why richard says "his innocence will be gone" or whatever he says. something about the goodness in him being gone. Maybe its because he has to have Dark Man bring him back to life... why he couldnt have Jacob do it i dont know...

Anonymous said...

You are very talented and gifted, very impressive work.
I just wanted to bring up something that is very important that was not mentioned. When Hurley tells Jacob in the cab that he has forgotten his guitar, Jacob responds by saying it is not mine. It is the same guitar case that Hurley is clinging to when we first see him after the second plane crash, it is as if the Jacob knew that the guitar case would save Hurley from drowning before he is rescued by Jack who dives in to save him.
I would also like to see Damion again in season 6 and I think that Jacob also found a loophole through Christian, Jacks dad, they where both in coffins and dead and somehow that is the loophole, someone who is entering the energy field of the island who is dead. I also wonder if Withmore is on the side of the dark force, since he did so much to help John, even back when John was in the hospital, I believe it was Neil who showed up and told him to get on the plane.

HurleyAteMe said...

Mike V- great job, please post your interview.
MV- Do you think that Jacob only touched the O-8? What about Walt, Charlie,etc? Is Walt in Season 6?
2nd question- Is it possible that Ben has been working with Smokey/Black tunic guy, the whole time? Could he have been told by Smokey that Locke would show up on the mainland and to Kill him and bring back to the island or is that a reach?
What is up with Sun collecting Rings?

Mike V. said...

Thanks for all of the compliments folks! I'll try to respond to comments a little later.

Just one note to Hurley Ate Me (HAM!) - I'm getting a copy of the interview on DVD...I'm going to see if I can somehow convert that and post it when I get it. Be patient! lol Like I said before...anything I covered in that interview is outdated now as it was my immediate reaction and theories on the episode!! But still fun that I was able to do it!

Gary said...

hurleyateme- Now that you mention walt, there has been something on my mind. All of these people (alex, john locke, christian etc...) have been the smoke monster right? what about when ben shoots john and throws him into the "dharma graveyard" and walt appears and tells john to get up and he is fine. Was that smokey? How is he able to control Walt if Walt is alive? Can the smoke monster maybe portray individuals who are alive too? Or is this really Walt as part of his special power?

Gary said...

C'mon mike! we are all anxious to see the "Huge Secrets" that you are telling everyone in the tampa area but not the commited readers of your blog! Lol, just kiddin, I DO want to see it though! Excellent job on the blog as always btw Mike!

Mike V. said...

considering walt was OLDER when he appeared to Locke...I was thinking it had to be Walt at a later date. Like maybe Walt was having a dream and appearing through his dreams. Because remember..this season walt said he had a dream where locke was back on the island, in a suit and surrounded by people with guns. we really don't know what that was about....we know that caesar was going to shoot Bizarro Locke...and he was in a suit. So not sure if that's what walt was dreaming about.

But yeah...i don't know if Jacob ONLY touched those people in the flashbacks or if there were more....like i think i mentioned in above comments...what if he touched everyone that survived flight 815 with superficial wounds? Obviously everyone on the flight didn't survive the crash.

okay...black sand guy...thanks for the compliments first off! But are you suggesting that the island is purgatory???? Aren't we past that theory? lol The producers have explained since the very beginning that it is DEFINITELY not purgatory. Now...if you meant that LIVING people go to the island to "finish business" well that's another story all together!

Anonymous...thanks for the talented/gifted comment! You're too kind! As for the guitar...yeah it's definitely the same guitar case that hurley brings with him. I don't think there's necessarily a guitar IN it though...and I thought we were supposed to find out what was in it THIS season...i guess we just found out how Hurley came to have it. Maybe it is a belonging of Charlie's that Jacob gave to Hurleys to bring on the plane. Would it be THAT simple? I dunno...but i think it has to serve a bigger purpose than Hurley using it to stay afloat in the water!


berdugo...yeah many people are comparing this to the story of Jacob and Esau....and I'm sure the ties are intentional. But I think Jacob and Esau end up forgiving each other by the end don't they? That doesn't seem like it will be the case on LOST island! but we'll see!

Mike V. said...

Thanks Gary! well believe it or not...my HUGE secret (which i mentioned in the blog) was that maybe Jacob has found a loop hole and came back as Christian LOL Which now a few people have also made similar comments in the blog!

But the more I thought about it the more it seemed that Christian is tied to Smokey and helped lead Locke down the path to his death which brought MAN IN BLACK's loophole into fruition. So who knows!?!

Of course, I also ended the interview saying that I don't think the losties RESET anything by blowing up the nuke! lol

horseman said...

First of all how about a standing O to Mike V. for helping us get through another crazy year of LOST! And thank you to everyone who contributes; all your ideas and thoughts help me and everyone else put it all together. A TV show that makes you think - how about that!?!

I have a question that's probably a stupid question since I have not seen it yet...Knowing what we now know, why did Ben kill Locke in the hotel room? When Locke got resurrected we thought Ben killed him because he could not kill himself, Ben told Locke he had faith he would be resurrected, etc. We know Ben is a liar. So why did Ben do it? Is Ben really in cahoots with the dark side? Same with Hawking and Widmore - are they part of anti-Jacob's plan all along?

Mike V. said...

Thanks Horseman! You're far too kind!

I think we are meant to believe that Ben was truly shocked that Locke was "alive" again. Based on the recap episode, Team Darlton said that Ben talked Locke off of the ledge because Locke still had information Ben needed. So, that part of Ben's story seems to be true. Ben may be unknowingly in cahoots with "the dark side". I'm liking how this all may tie back to what Richard did to heal Ben in the Temple and that his "innocence" is gone. And perhaps Man in Black was behind it rather than Jacob hence Jacob's dismissal of Ben's very existence. Crazy crazy stuff!

Jerry and Stacie said...

All of the biblical references to this Jacob vs. Dark Suit Man being a parallel of God vs. Satan has gotten me thinking. I used to be a youth minister, so I know a thing or two about the Bible! First of all, Jacob's death is reminding me more of the death of Jesus. Jacob seemed to know that Ben was going to kill him, and he didn't resist (just like Jesus). Bizarro Locke (Satan) didn't actually kill Jacob (Jesus) himself, he convinced Ben (or as Satan did, the Israelites) to do it for him! Maybe Jacob understood, as Jesus did, that his death was necessary, and that he would soon be raised from the dead!

It's all making sense now!!!

Weasel said...

Now we can't have everyone coming back from the dead..... can we???

Mike V. said...

in the great words of Ben Linus "Dead is dead. You don't get to come back from that!"

We thought Locke somehow got a pass from this. But it's looking like Locke surely is dead too. So the question now is....."NOW WHAT!?!?!" WHAT is the new Locke? What is Christian Shephard? What on earth/island is the SMOKE MONSTER???? are they all one of the same?? And that my friends....i have no idea! lol But we sure can keep speculating until they tell us!

Mike V. said...

by the way....Ajira folk FOUND Locke's body in the coffin...let's keep in mind that Jack found Christian's coffin EMPTY when he found it.

Also...We saw John locke (bizarro style) with Christian's shoes and the suit on....we also saw him take the shoes off before crossing the ocean from island to island...now that we know this is bizarro locke...do we think there is significance to the event?

mark said...

I'm hoping the guitar case actually has a guitar and hurley will give it to christian and they can all sit around a campfire and sing kumbuya

cdstedman said...

About Walt’s dream, it did come true. They only detail he left out was that Locke was in a “box” while in a suit and surrounded by people with guns.

And Jacob’s dismissal of Ben, I bet we’ll find out that Jacob and man in black will regard everyone this way. Just pieces of the game to them.

HurleyAteMe said...

Could Jacob and black tunic guy have already fought? Maybe BTG lost human form or some power and became the Smoke Monster!!

If so "the others" could be left over inhabitants from each time Jacob has brought people to the island. What I really wonder is if there is a possiblity that these others have no choice but to follow Jacob. Maybe some of his followers dont agree with Jacob (maybe Jacob brought DI to the island) and they are fighting just as BTG stated.

Didnt Richard sort of rebel against Jacob when he took Ben in the temple to be healed without asking?

EJ said...

There's a lot of Anonymous here now, so I'll give myself an ID. (I did the one entry from Tampa.)

One other thought about car accidents -- that's what brought John Locke to Jack in L.A.

I also have thoughts about Aaron (who did not go back, so not everyone did) and Michael, but will wait to see what has already been written before expounding.

I'm looking forward to reading your past blog entries and associated comments this summer. That will be a good way to pass those 8.5 months and be totally ready for Season 6!

Rob said...

Now that we've established that there is an epic battle going on between Jacob and the man in black, where does the battle between Ben and Widmore fit it? Are they aware of the larger conflict of Jacob vs. man in black? Have they taken sides? Or are they just pawns like the rest of the islanders?

Anonymous said...

does anyone wonder how did Widmore and Elouis get to the island?

Anonymous said...

Mike you really are very talented.
I noticed something that I think is very telling but was missed. When Jack and Christian where talking after the surgery, Jacob shows up and in his hand you have two Apollo bars, (one that Jack wanted but got stuck). Now the writers could have given it any name by the chose Apollo for a reason.
Apollo has been variously recognized as a god of light and the sun; truth and prophecy; archery; medicine and healing; music, poetry, and the arts; and more. Apollo was also seen as a god who could bring ill-health and deadly plague as well as one who had the ability to cure. Amongst the god's custodial charges, Apollo became associated with dominion over colonists, and as the patron defender of herds and flocks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo

What do you guys think? We do see jacob weaving this cloth that he states took him a very very long time to complete.

Anonymous said...

Great blog entry, Mike
What with finals, graduation ive only now been able to take this all in.
But I love the idea that "they're coming" refers to the people of Oceanic 815.

I completely agree with all previous posters in that Lost does boil down to good vs. evil, specifically the goodness of humankind vs. the wickedness of humanity, etc.
i.e. are humans innately good or evil? if they do tend towards evil, can they become just and moral with a nudge in the right direction? ( a la the interventions of Jacob in the lives of the 815ers)

Jacob clearly believes humans are capable of much more than corruption, evil & killing (i.e. compassion, kindness, morality, etc.)
The man-in-black has no faith in humanity.

The main 815ers are the humans on which Jacob is depending. He is counting on them to show that humankind is worth believing in.
And with the main 815ers, he's seems to be right. As we've seen, Sawyer did some terrible things prior to arriving on he island. But as we have seen over the course of 5 seasons, deep down he is a good person.
A similar case can be made for Jin, and many of the other main characters.

Thus, in season 6 the 815ers will emerge as the defenders of good, they will arrive and prove to the man-in-black that Jacob was right.

An anonymous poster asked earlier why Jacob would not try to avoid death at the hands of Ben, by trying to beg for his life, or by manipulating Ben, or trying to assuage Ben's hurt feelings.
I think Jacob is not capable of such things. If he is truly the god representing all that is good, he would never be anything but honest, and he would never lie or manipulate people. Jacob's big thing is that when left on their own (or with a few helping hands) humans will be good. So he told Ben the straight-up truth -- kill me if you want, but it is completely up to you. Clearly, Ben murdered him, giving a point to the man-in-black as another person who has succumbed to evil.

But Jacob says to Ben: "what about you??" because to Jacob, Ben is unimportant. Jacob has put all of his faith in the 815ers as the ones that will prove the worth of mankind. "They're coming" and in season 6 will prove once and for all that humanity is capable of more than evil.

Soda said...

I agree absolutely with the theory stated by Tim (and others, I'm sure, I haven't read through all the comments) that this is an ongoing game of good and evil. That was my take after watching the episodes and rewatching the Jacob/rival scene on the beach a couple times.

Several things support this theory, in my view. Most of them have already been stated in one way or another (the black and white shirts jumped out to me - Literature 101). What I would add (again, I haven't read all the comments so this may be a rehash) is that Jacob strongly emphasizes free will (stressing to Ben and Hurley, separately, that they had a choice). Particularly in Ben's case, we see Jacob walk toward Ben when Jacob knows that Ben is holding a knife and wants to murder him. Jacob wasn't even trying to protect himself. He wasn't afraid of Ben stabbing him. Why? What reward could have warranted the risk? Proving to his rival that Ben could choose against murder/evil. (Guess he didn't understand Ben Linus very well.)

One last point: What really stuck out to me about the rival's comment on the beach was when he said not just that what appears to be their game always ends in fighting and destruction, but also "corruption." This has a distinct moral connotation to it, not just a concern for life and property, and such material matters.

Mike V. said...

stedman, good call with locke in the box and walt's dream. He definitely was surrounded by people with guns AND he was in a suit! lol

H.A.M. - Yeah I would agree that the OTHERS do seem to be the "leftovers" from past experiments. Especially with Richard saying "jacob made me like this" Maybe Richard is not the only one "LIKE THAT" Tom (mr friendly) did make a comment to Michael how "SOME OF US" can come and go as they please from the Island. Sure, they had the sub...but they were doing it way before the sub. So maybe this is all tied together somehow.

As for the temple...yeah unless Richard was taking Ben to Jacob...or, according to my current crazy theory, perhaps took him to the RIVAL/Man In Black instead of Jacob.


EJ, that's a huge undertaking to be reading all my nonsense from years ago. But you'll have to let me know how much is still relevant! lol Thanks for sticking around and adding your thoughts! Good call on the Locke car accident too! There's also Michael getting hit by a car in his season 1 flasback. Definitely a recurring theme in LOST.

Good question Rob on Widmore vs. Ben. I think someone earlier was saying that it would seem that Widmore is AGAINST Jacob since the Ajira folk were telling Miles he was backing the wrong side. But then Ben KILLED Jacob (following who he thought to be Locke's order). Right now it would seem like they are pawns too.

Anonymous, yeah...i too am wondering how Widmore/Hawking got to the island originally. Considering Mr. Widmore had the option to be a series regular next season...we might be getting that story. Same with Christian Shephard.

Thanks Anonymous #2 on the TALENTED line! I think you exaggerate greatly, but I'll take it! Yeah the Apollo bars have been a recurring candy bar since season 2 when we first got into the hatch. I'm sure we analyzed that stuff to death back then...and I'm sure it's all still relevant! I just can't get myself to look into it much! Too much effort! lol Speaking of too much effort, has anyone attempted to translate that tapestry yet? I'm sure there's some juicy stuff on there.

Thanks anonymous #3 too! Very nice analysis on the situation and it seems very logical that this would be the way it would play out. Of course, what we haven't considered too much yet is if things are the opposite. What if JACOB is the evil one and the Man in Black is the good one? I guess we don't have enough information to go on to make that kind of assumption yet. As things are laid out right now, I would tend to agree that Jacob sacrificed himself in hopes that the Oceanic Crew would redeem him. At the same time, I don't think we've seen the last of Jacob either.

Soda agree on the battle of good and evil. the Free Will seems to be a big thing too..especially capping a season that was all about DESTINY and not being able to change the future. now we just have to wait and see how it all pans out!

Great discussion everyone. Keep it up!

Mike V. said...

Kudos to Horseman for doing some research on the tapestry. Apparently it's in Greek and from the Homer's THE Odyssey

A couple different possible translations both ending up being the same thing really. Odysseus says it to Nausicaa in Book 6 Line 180:

"May heaven grant you all the things in your heart's desire"

some Greek dude on the website said that there was no greek word for Heaven on the tapestry and said it's more like this:

"May Gods give you all that your mind wishes"

(audiblylost.com)

Either way...it sounds very Magic Box'ish doesn't it??? But why Greek? I guess we know that Jacob is a man of many languages. Thanks Horseman!

Anonymous said...

Hey Mike, us UK Lost addicts finally got there last night, whew what a wait!

Not a lot to add to the comments here. The main thing that jumped out to me was Ben questioning his faith. He said that through all these years he had to blindly follow Jacob's rules and lists and was always ignored when he asked to speak to him. Obviously very similar to us questioning religion today.

Crazy theory for you... Maybe when the bomb goes off Jack will die and Jacob can inhabit his body and lead the other Losties? This would give us a Team Bizarro Locke v Team Bizarro Jack face off. Okay that is crazy but that's what we're here for!

A bit off-topic but one thing I thought I'd share... I was having a bath this morning and glanced across at my wife's (honest) bath stuff. The words "Orchid" and "Pearl" jumped out immediately so I looked closer, and the full name of it? Kuan Jin Orchid and Pearl Bath Floats! Made by a company called Sanctuary from Covent Garden in London. The makers of Lost are obviously big bathers!

Looking forward to anything that comes from Comic Con. Keep us updated mate.

Anonymous said...

Lostpedia says the statue is Tawaret. Also says it was destroyed sometime before 1974, how is that known?

Weasel said...

The statue: Well, Ben said it has not been there since he has been on the island (if he is telling the truth). Did Ben come to the island the same year that Sawyer and crew jumped there?

Jerry and Stacie said...

I know that during one flashback that Sawyer and crew saw the statue from a distance, but did it ever show it (destroyed or intact) after they settled in 1974? If it was shown destroyed, then we would definitely know that it was destroyed before 1974. That's the only way I can see knowing for certain when it was destroyed. As far as what god the statue represents, I'm fairly certain that that's never been stated.

Mike V. said...

I don't know if we can tell if Ben is telling the truth since he told it to Sun. But he may have been to the point in this episode where he felt "what's the use in lying anymore?" It could be possible that the Black Rock crew destroy the statue since man in black alluded to "DESTROYING" I'm sure we'll see! As for Ben...we don't know the actual date when he showed up...but it was definitely a few years before 1977....whether it was before or after the LOSTIES showed up? i'm not sure.

UK Anonymous, thanks for the comments, and I am looking forward to comic-con as much as you. You can be sure I'll be posting my thoughts/findings when I find out anything! Sometimes I even get the youtubes up of the actual panel (before they are taken down!) Very interesting with Bizarro Jack possibilities. I really hope that's not the case. It's weird enough having Locke's body abducted...but to have the man who is supposed to be our ultimate hero not even be Jack Shephard? Yikes...that's kinda rough! Interesting on the BATH stuff too....I'm going to say EXTREME COINCIDENCE but still pretty funny! lol And very good observation on Ben's Faith!

Note to everyone that cares...I received the DVD of my news broadcast and am working on converting it to a proper format to post. Hopefully I can get that done tonight. If you're going to comment, please be mindful of my extreme self-consciousness of my crazy nervous ticks I had going on the entire newscast! lol It's probably all in my head, but man is it weird to watch myself on the news!

Mike V. said...

Jerry/Stacie, no it has never been stated but Damon Lindelof stated that by the end of this season we should be able to certifiably state what the statue represents. So I think that's why we're all determined to get to the bottom of it! lol As for 1974...no we did not get a shot of the statue after they moved to 1974...but they also didn't point the camera in that area. We might be able to surmise from Miles' comment when they WERE in the past that they have never seen it in the other timeframes that they've been so it must not have existed. Miles said something to the effect that they were at some point in time A LONG LONG TIME AGO. So maybe it was meant to be implied that it didn't exist in DHARMA times. And Ben's comment was meant to reenforce that. But having Ben say ANYTHING will make us automatically question it!

As of now, we can deduce that the Statue existed in full form when Black Rock arrived to the island. And we know it does NOT exist in present day!

mark said...

A few questions i have

do we know how widmore made all his money?

I do agree with whoever mentioned Apollo possibly being responsible for healing Ben. I’m assuming we most find out the importance of Apollo bars sooner or later.

I also wanted to know if Sun is the only member of the group that returned that hasn't killed anyone? I was wondering perhaps since all the other that went back to the 70's have killed someone that is what separated them.

David Ross said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PDXdave said...

The statue is undoubtedly Taweret. The confirmation of that is the croc-like teeth, and the fact that she is carrying ankh (an egyptian hieroglyph meaning "key to life" or "eternal life").

Taweret has a croc head, a hippo body, and lions paws (hands and feet).

As you can guess, many of these ancient gods represented many things, but commonly she is described as the goddess/demoness of fertility and protection of mothers and children. Although, here is an interesting description I found somewhere on the web:

"In the Book of the Dead Taweret, the 'Lady of Magical Protection', was seen as a goddess who guided the dead into the afterlife. As with her double nature of protector and guardian, she was also a guard to the mountains of the west where the deceased entered the land of the dead. Many of the deities relating to birth also appear in the underworld to help with the rebirth of the souls into their life after death."

As you probably know, The book of dead was a description of the ancient Egyptian conception of the afterlife and a collection of hymns, spells, and instructions to allow the deceased to pass through obstacles in the afterlife.

Dunno if this is helpful or not, but I am at least confident that the statue is in fact Taweret.

Thanks to Mike V and all who have posted! I really enjoy the speculation.

Mike V. said...

Mark, surely you don't think the apollo candy bars themselves have healing powers right?! :-) j/k Yeah, I'm sure there is some symbolism and reasoning for the naming of the candy that may tie into overall themes of the show...but i think the candy bar itself, is just a candy bar!!

As for Sun - She shot Pickett's wife (i want to call her Trixie because that was her name on deadwood) in season 3 which led to danny wanting to kill Sawyer in front of Kate in the most fabulous 6 episodes of television ever put on screen! (again kidding!!)

David thanks for the clarification on Taweret. The only thing that has been throwing me off is that the statue is SLENDER where most of the versions of Taweret I see are very large in the center area. But yeah..the face does look more like Taweret or Sobek than Anubis. But Anubis also carries the Ankh (just not 2 of them) I'm sure you're right though.

And you're very welcome! Thanks for sharing your thoughts as well!

Mike V. said...

Horseman is finding all kinds of good scoop but he is letting me post it all! Here is some quotes from Terry O'Quinn (Locke/Bizarro Locke) on what he suspects happened to his character. I wouldn't necessarily call this information spoilerish as it is what we have all been guessing anyway:
Viewers of ABC's "Lost" saw the body of a dead John Locke in the show's Season 5 finale Wednesday night. However, a very alive Terry O'Quinn, who plays Locke, was in Spartanburg on Thursday to play in the BMW Charity Pro-Am at Carolina Country Club.

Between holes, O'Quinn was happy to talk to fans about golf, the finale and the fate of his character in the show's final season, beginning in 2010.

O'Quinn called himself an OK golfer, saying he would be happy with an 85 or under.

"I played well on the front. A little bit rough on the back," he said as his group neared hole 17.

O'Quinn said he hasn't seen the finale and didn't know how the story was edited.

"Don't tell me," he joked. "I want to be surprised."

In the season cliffhanger, a bomb, which could prevent Flight 815 from ever crashing on the mysterious island, was detonated.

As for his character, O'Quinn says he's really gone. Locke's dead body was rolled out of a metal box toward the end of the two-hour episode, baffling islanders who had been following a Locke imposter. Exactly who is now occupying Locke's body wasn't revealed. O'Quinn said it would be "a good guess" to assume it's a man seen with the infamous Jacob in the beginning of the episode.

"I think, unfortunately, I think it's ended for Locke. But I'm still there, as far as I know," O'Quinn said. "I don't know how it's going to end for this other guy. I'm sad. I miss John Locke, poor guy. He was a pawn."

O'Quinn is gearing up to play a new character when the sixth season begins next year. As for the rest of the story line, he swears he has no idea.

"Your guess is honestly as good as mine is," he said. "There's going to be some confrontation that will somehow, I'm guessing, have to do with Jack or Locke or something like that. I think these guys are just setting up good and evil. It's the way Locke said in the very beginning of the show: One is light and one is dark. Two sides. I think that's what we've got."
Don't know how reputable the website is, but I'm sure they didn't put words into Terry's mouth! lol http://www.goupstate.com/article/20090515/ARTICLES/905151022#

Anonymous said...

i guess that sayid is really the dead workman that hurley found in season 3?

Mike V. said...

Actually we confirmed in season 3's "the man from talahassee" that ben killed his father "roger" in the van with the gas and left him to rot. Hurley referred to the dead body as roger workman. So no confirmation on sayid yet!

Kim said...

Another Tampa resident here.

I saw you on the news the other night and so excited to discover your blog. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading your recap and all these comments. You're all very smart.

The bath product story made me laugh outloud at work!

I'm going to watch all of season 5 again, with a whole lot more knowledge than the first time around, so that ought to keep me busy until next time.

PDXdave said...

Hey Mike,
from what I understand (from reading stuff on the web, I'm not a scholar on the issue), Tawaret didn't always have a pregnant belly. She began to be characterized this way after egyptian women adopted her as their protector. Even doing a google image search, it appears that the pronounced pregnant belly isn't a determining factor.

that being said, taweret is supposed to have the body of a hippo, so at least something of a belly should be expected. Also, the feet of the statue surely dont look like lion paws...merely oversights in production, or is this still a mystery!?

Anonymous said...

I'm wondering if the reason the others always wanted the children was that children can be given special powers by Jacob. Walt might be a good example of this.

Maybe Man in Black is responsible for the inability of humans (post Ethan?) to have babies on the island. And all this might be linked to Jacob living in Taweret?

Different topic: would Widmore be an example of the 'corruption' the Man in Black sees; wasn't there something about him being corrupted in the sense that he had a lover (and a fortune) off island?

~TNT

Anonymous said...

Mike, YOU rock! Not sure who Alby is or why he/she is trying to push your buttons, but kudos to you for not buying into the nonsense. Let's see him/her try to do what you do with this blog!

HurleyAteMe said...

mike v
your Richard to the temple possibly being the Rival is where i was coming from. I just didnt get communicate it well. If Richard took young Ben to Rival guy for healing, i guess Richard could be working both sides of good and evil! problem is who knows for sure who is good or evil?

this may have already been mentioned, but what is your take on the similarities between Ben giving Real Locke a knife to kill his father and then Crazy Locke giving Ben a knife to Kill Jacob?

Mike V. said...

Hey guys, I'll get to your comments in a little bit. But just wanted to let you know that I embedded my Interview to the blog post at the bottom. Here is also the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JsAc50Zso4

Please be KIND! It was my first TV appearance! lol And don't forget, MINUTES after the finale aired, with little time to think about what we just saw!

(EJ, Kim, and all other new Tampa readers, I apologize that you have to see it again! lol But thanks for sticking around!!)

gnni4 said...

Mike, I think that you did a great job on the interview, and that you need to give yourself a break about it. You seem to be second guessing yourself about what you said, and you MUST STOP. You are not allowed to put yourself down or belittle yourself, there will always be too many others in the world that will do that for you, so just stop. We all appreciate you, enjoy your take on things, look forward all week (or for weeks)for your thoughts and ideas and recap of the episode because you have a great way with words and we all feel like we are more connected and a part of this with you.

There. I feel better, do you?

Now, I want to just mention that I don't want to believe that the 2 sides have to be 'good' and 'evil'. The backgammon pieces are just 2 players, light and dark. (I usually go for the black in go or chess or backgammon, and I am not evil)
In those games, white generally goes first. So did Jacob have his chance first, and now it is player 2's turn? Is the white background just the negative image and season 6 is opposite time?

What are we all going to talk about all summer?

Thanks for posting the interview, you did good!
Jennifer

Myito said...

Hi,

My first post too, though I've been reading for months.

Just one comment: notice that the knife used by Jacob in the beginning story line appeared to be the same knife young Locke picked in Cabin Fever.

This implies to me that the knife in fact belonged to him -- perhaps Jacob took it from him during one of their wars.

The bigger symbolism for me was that Locke is for sure the BTG (black tunic guy) and coming to reclaim his island. The big question for me is how Jacob became leader in the first place.

Michel Koch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michel Koch said...

Actually there are a lot of similarities with Carnivàle. (ongoing good vs evil fight), reincarnations of the champions of good and champion of evil in new bodies, etc ...

Maybe smokey is not Jacob or The other guy, but a third neutral entity, like Sofie was in Carnivàle (the judge ?)

In carnivàle the idea is that there needs to be a balance between good and evil, this is a fight that should never end, so a third entity (the judge I think, or something like that) is here to keep this balance. As we can see, in the end of Carnivàle (too bad the show ended :( ) Sofie is healing the evil champion so the fight doesn't stop.
Maybe Smokey is working in the same way, affecting people in a way that the balance can be maintained. Of course now it seems that Evil is winning, but at the same moment, Jack and the others are coming back, and the fight will go on.

I'm really hoping that in the end, this balance will be preserved, I would really hate a "good wins" ending.

Mike V. said...

Fine, I'll stop complaining! lol I was just messing around anyway. You know how no one likes to see themselves on camera. (well...most people)...that's the only thing that's bugging me! But I'm over it! :-) Okay, now that that's out of the way...let's get back to business!

PDXDave, yeah that's why I'm confused about too...pregnant, not pregnant, hippo body, whatever! That statue is SLIM! I'm guessing you're right and it's still tawaret though...because I like the idea of it being tied to the fertility issues on the island. Then again..if the statue wasn't there anymore in DHARMA times (still unconfirmed)...we still had a birth on the island. So yeah...i'd say STILL A MYSTERY!

TNT - interesting with the special powers and the children. Of course, WALT already had some crazy powers before his abduction on the island. Then again, there is no telling if Jacob visited Walt off island as a child. Widmore could definitely be an example of corruption. We definitely need to see more of his story though...and I think that is coming in season 6 some way or another!

Thanks Anonymous for the "ROCK" comment and the kudos! Nothing else to be said there as I will not add fuel to the fire! lol

Kim, WELCOME from Tampa too! Glad you are enjoying the blog!

H.A.M. - good catch with the Knife thing (Ben to Locke, B. Locke to Ben). I'm sure there's definitely some symbolism there...if not, then just some intentional irony! And agreed, we have no idea who is good or bad...just some strong suggestions! But usually those suggestions unravel to end up being the opposite of what we think!

Jennifer, good point on maybe no one being good or evil. If there is one thing that LOST excels in, it is showing the story from ALL viewpoints. We learn WHY people are motivated to do the things that they have done. Prime example is JIN. We thought the dude was worthless in season 1 and he has evolved into one of the most beloved characters/heroes of LOST. Ben? Well, the man still has done some pretty evil things...but we have learned throughout 4 seasons why he has become the man he has become. I would suspect we will learn Jacob and Man in Black's reasonings for whatever they have done too. But at some point, ONE SIDE has to win!!! I mean Widmore and Bram both told us! lol As for what to talk about this summer? Well, there are about 103 episodes that we've seen now, surely we can think of something! I'm sure the blog will die down a bit in June but then we'll get some life again in July after comic-con. But any time I think of something I'll be posting comments here in the meantime. So keep checking in! (also, seasons 1 and 2 come out on blu-ray in June...and you can be sure I'll eventually get them and be watching the show over again! that always leads to some comments)

Myito, all good comments and questions. Yeah that knife definitely looked like Jacob's knife in the cabin. My question is how long has "someone else been using the cabin?" Does it go all the way back to the crazy time that Ben and Locke went there and someone yelled "help me" or is CHRISTIAN SHEPARD's presence there what they are referring to? And of course, i made that crazy impulse prediction that Christian is IN FACT a loopholed Jacob, but it does make more sense if he's AGAINST Jacob and sent Locke on the path to where we see him/bizarro Locke at the finale. Yikes... I agree, would love to learn Jacob's origin story! And surely, we'll be seeing that!

Michel, I never watched Carnivale' but I get what you're saying. See...I'm a sucker for GOOD WINS endings! But I would agree that LOST really hasn't really showed us that THAT is what it's all about. Maybe that's how it will end, but it just seems like that would be an unsatisfying ending to me. Based on the finale, it is being set up like everything that Jacob and Tunic guy have done has led them to this point. Some FINAL Battle using the OCEANIC CREW plus FRIENDS as pawns to finally end whatever struggles have been going on on the island. In the end, we will learn the mysteries of the island and determine the fates of all the people we've followed over the years. Well, thinking more about it...maybe there doesn't have to be a winner or a loser as long as we get all of THOSE answers!

whew...I think I'm all caught up now! Thanks everyone for your comments and keep discussing!!

Anonymous said...

thanks for responding to my question regarding sayid and the workman. :) your blog is awesome.

i have one more question. whatever happened with all of that stuff surrounding claire's baby and the need for him to be raised by someone "good" ie by claire just to have him raised by kate and now his grandmother. i'm interested to hear your theories.

Mike V. said...

no problem on answering the question. I love when there is a question that CAN be answered and I can provide it!

Unfortunately, there are yet to be any clear cut answers on Claire and Aaron and the story behind Malkin - the psychic from seasons 1 and 2. We see that Malkin tells Eko that he is a fraud and that he does research on his customers before they come and lies about their future. But he clearly knew about Flight 815 at the same time. So then the question is...WAS he given a vision? Or did someone inform HIM to tell Claire these things? We know Christian Shephard was in Australia at the time. We know Jacob has been involved in our 815 passengers from a very early age. So anything is fair game.

There can not be coincidences in the fact that no one is supposed to raise Claire but Claire and the fact that Kate has done it for 3 years, her mother is now doing it...and the fact that Claire will figure into season 6 in some probably major way.

Based on what we know now...I gotta think Jacob or Man In Black have been involved in some way of getting Claire on that plane.

I still want to know if Christian Shephard had been to the island prior to his coffin showing up there. Was he involved in luring Jack, Ana Lucia, Sawyer, Claire etc....into ending up on that fateful flight?

ugh..8.5 months is a long time!

Anonymous said...

yes, christian for sure has something to do with all of this. i almost forgot about that fortune teller. i would really like to know what connection the shepards have with this island. it seems as though christian has been testing jack all along to see if he has what it takes to be worthy of the island. thanks for the response again. i'm really interested to see if this whole good/evil theory is correct. this show is best! on a side note i was really sick this year and caught up on lost from season 1. it's killing me that i can't just pop in a dvd and see what happens next! lol i guess i should be happy about that. :)

thanks again! you rock!

Mike V. said...

Thanks anonymous and no problem! I'm sorry to hear that you had been sick...but if there is any REWARD worth being sick for..it is to have the time to watch all of LOST over again! :-) well...maybe it's not THAT worth it...but I sure am looking forward to a marathon viewing of the entire show. I can't tell you how many times i've watched these episodes but to watch it all when it's complete will be totally different. And I'm sure it would make me come up with a bunch of questions that never got answered lol In fact, maybe I just found a way that this blog can go on AFTER the show is over! Well...we'll see!

Agree though...there has to be some deeper meaning to the Shephard's ties to the Island. And also, what was up with that crazy visit with Grandpa Ray? He sure seemed to know where Jack was headed. It seemed like he was trying to get "BACK" to the island himself. Definitely a whole story to tell there...and hopefully it will redeem Jack's character which they have certainly turned into quite a mess right now!

MJ said...

Curious that Ben brought up getting notes and lists from Jacob and that we see Jacob touch Jack and wasn't Jack absent from the list that Ben gave Micael ?

If they are going to go with the time loop it does not necessarily mean that everything we have seen is erased - it might just be a tweaking of the reality. But liking the newer theories of the good vs bad playing out over centuries. And they probably have some sort of 'no interference' clause - they can interact and state 'you have a choice' but they can't actually change anything or make them do anything.

Mike V. said...

Yeah I was thinking of that "LIST" thing too and Jack not being on the list. Maybe he still needed that "PUSH" from Locke or something! i dunno

As for the "no interaction" thing...do we think this might be tied similar to the fact that "Christian Shephard" (or whatever he is) couldn't help Locke up in the Donkey Wheel cave? Similar to how Man in Black could not kill Jacob himself? Not sure exactly how it would be related, but it seems similar so I thought I would bring it up while I'm thinking of it!

MJ said...

The theory that Esau/Smokey is in charge and Jacib is battling him makes sense. Ilana went to the cabin looking for Jacob. She came out and said He hasn't been here for a long time, someone else has been living here. Burn it. So Esau/Smokey guy is probably who took the cabin over.

Hmm - could Jacob touch in the past be a protection from Smokey in the future ? I've always been very curious how some people were able to look into smokey and not get killed. Locke did it. Also Kate/Juliette one time.


One of the anonymous has a good point - just because Richard has stated he has talked to Jacob does not mean it was Jacob. Ilana clearly stated that someone else has been living in the cabin for a long time.

And - just like to point out to all the anons - if you don't have a blog acct you can choose the Name/Url button and just type a name in. Makes it easier to comment back to eachother.

gallo said...

I keep going back to the movie "Dogma" with Ben Affleck and Matt Damon, and how they, as fallen archangels find a loophole on how to get back to heaven. I think now it is as simple as Jacob is God and the man dressed in black is the devil.

Matt said...

Thinking LOOOOOONNNGGG and HAARRRDD about why Jacob was happy to die, and wanting it to be for more than just a test to see if Ben would have the goodness in his heart to be forgiving i remembered Episode 6 in season 5, i will try and transcribe it :S bare with me and prepare for lots of typo's.

Setting the Scene, Eloise has told Jack to take Locke as his father in the plane.
Ben is sat with his hands linked in front of his face, appears to be praying. Enter Jack, concerned about the whole plan....

JS - Wheres Sun?
BL - She left.
JS - And Locke, i mean his body, the coffin.
BL - I have a friend looking after it, i will pick it up on my way to the airport.
*BL LIGHTS A CANDLE*
(very symbolic in the church)
BL - What did she say to you Jack?
JS - Nothing that Matters... Who is she? How does she know all this? Why is she helping us?

HERES THE IMPORTANT BIT!!!

BL - Thomas the Apostle.... When Jesus wanted to return to Judea, knowing that he will probably be murdered there, Thomas said to the otehrs "let us also go that we might die with him". But Thomas was not remembered for this bravery, his claim to fame came later, when we refused to acknowledge the resurrection. He just couldn't wrap his mind around it. The story goes, he needed to touch Jesus wounds to be convinced.
JS - So was he?
BL - Of course he was, we're all convinced sooner or later Jack.

I think this is not only a talk to convince Jack to take this leap of Faith, but i also think it will be a big part of what plays out in season 6, maybe Jacob's death is to bring more people to the "good" side, and to make non beleivers beleive.

Matt said...

Sorry posted a bit soon, that point about Jack's grandfather being on the island at some point. He says that one of these days he is going to get away "And they won't ever find me either"

Also he had packed Jack's fathers shoes, maybe he knows where Jack was, and beleives that his son is there, and thats why he packed the shoes. Maybe he was figured out that Jack is going back there, from when Jack said he is going away for a while, and that is why he agrees to let Jack take them back instead?

Bit crazy but it works.

David said...

What a great blog this is!
- One thing I did find strange was that Jacob and Dude #2 spoke with very contemporary American accents in their 1800s sequence viewing the Black Rock. Perhaps this is to indicate that Jacob and Friend are outside of time as we mortals understand time?
Catholic-Orthodox Christian theology emphasizes this outside of time concept which is why the Sacrifice of the Mass is said to be the same event as the Death and Resurrection of Christ.
- Juliet hit the bomb 8 times...

Anonymous said...

If this was mentioned earlier, I apologize in advance.

The items Hurley got back when leaving jail (candy, cash, pen) were the same items Jacob gave Jack, Kate, and Sawyer.

Gotta mean something right?

Geoffrey

Anonymous said...

That statue... I know abc and lostpedia say it's Taweret but it looks identical to Sobek to me. I don't trust them! Sobek had links to fertility and later formed himslef together with the God Ra to become Sobek-Ra. Remember the speculation about Richard being Ra?

I think Ilana was looking for a "candidate" to take over from Jacob. He asked for her help because he knew his time was nearly up.

horseman said...

Hey MJ, I was thinking the same thing about Jacob's touch protecting the Losties. For all we know he touched everyone that ended up on the island but we were not shown that so...

That got me thinking, if Jacob has a group that is off-limits, does Smokey?

ABC said the statue is Tawaret. Tawaret changed a lot during history so that might be why it does not look like Tawaret to everyone. But I think we have to go with it being Tawaret.

Tawaret has a convoluted history. I want to think that this characteristic is important to Lost but who knows: Taweret was seen as one who protected against evil by restraining it. She held Set (Apep) back on a chain.

RK said...

I love this blog too!! Mike V great job on tv especially under pressure its hard to keep everything straight and this forum helps jog our memories so to speak. A couple of things... We don't really know when the statue is destroyed could it be that the "incident" has been happening over and over? The hole where Radz was drilling was pretty wide almost as big as the well that Locke entered and big enough for Juliet to fall into. Maybe its been dug into before releasing enough energy to destroy the statue. There is no other evidence of the statue except the feet.Where did it go? Has there been more than one attempt to kill Jacob? I think this battle has happened before. The release of energy could very well have blown the Black Rock Inland. Over the course of 150 years or so black shirt guy and Jacob have refined their battle. I also think that Smokey is a separate entity trying to protect the special properties of the island. Any way that's what i think today,tomorrow i'm sure I'll have a different spin as I can't seem to get my mind around all this stuff. Way to go Geoffrey on spotting the Hurley items returned. It's stuff like that that keeps all this fascinating. I can't believe how into this show I've become obsessed. AAArghhh it' so frustrating to wait 9 mos.. er 8.5

RK said...

One more thing, have we ever seen the people in the temple? Are they Black Shirt's contingent. And why do they just stay there and not move around the island?

Mike V. said...

Man, I fell behind again! Okay, let me see what I would like to respond to! lol

First off. NEW (probably final) DOC JENSEN of the season!MJ, you tell those anonymous's who's boss! LOL Still a couple did not adhere to your request! Very interesting about Smokey and Jacob's touch. I guess we need to see who else he may have touched prior to the island. I am curious to why some were PRE Flight 815 and some were pre Ajira 316 (Hurley and Sayid). What is the significance of that???

Gallo, it could very well be THAT simple. I personally hope it ISN'T, but you never know! Clearly Jacob, at least, has some kind of supernatural power. We did not see as much of Man in Black...except that he had taken over the form of LOCKE and possibly others. I do love that movie DOGMA though, so who knows? I would just hope that LOST would have an original thought in mind and not rip off a Kevin Smith movie! lol

Matt, I always thought that scene was to foreshadow LOCKE "coming back from the dead" Are you suggesting that Ben as a character knew what he was doing when he killed Locke? Or just the writers are foreshadowing events to come and using Ben to relay that message (even if the character isn't aware?). Interesting thoughts regardless! Also with Grandpa Ray, it definitely seemed like he was in the know on something about the island. Whether he had been there himself, or knew where JACK was headed ...there's something there!

Thanks David for the blog props! Interesting on the no accents and the outside of time comments with the Catholic church. It all could be right! We'll just have to wait and see. A nice catch on Juliet hitting the bomb 8 times!

Geoffrey - I'm not sure if there is significance there or not with Hurley's item. I think the one thing was beef jerky and not candy, right? But it does seem kinda ironic with the Pen and the Money and a Vending Machine product! lol

I'm giving up on the statue. It has to be one of those 3 or a hybrid of the 3! lol Whenever they decide to tell us...good for them! lol

As for the candidate for Jacob to take over. It's as good a theory as any. And kinda makes sense! But I like Frank, so that ain't cool! lol

Horseman, if we are to believe that it is Smokey/man in black vs Jacob then we know that LOCKE had interacted with BOTH of them. Locke came into contact with Smokey early on the island and started getting visions that led him to his quests soon after.

Thanks RK for the Blog and TV Spot props! I definitely did feel the pressure! as with the hole they were digging...I just assumed that's eventually where they placed the HATCH door. And that was the deep hole that Locke, Kate and Jack climbed down into with the rope. The thing I never got and the writers admitted to it being written in as a convenience in season 2...was that they eventually revealed that there was a DOOR into the Hatch above ground too! lol I'm sure there are hilly areas of the Island...but that is kinda ridiculous! I guess it would make sense if there have been other Electro-magnetic events on the island before too! But yeah...we don't know exactly WHEN that statue was destroyed and I would assume that is a story they are going to tell!

As for the temple people...well right now the people missing are CINDY and the KIDS. And we know at the end of season 3 that Ben said to take everyone to the temple. So we can probably assume that THEY are there. What we don't know is if there are 2 different factions of OTHERS....possibly ones that support Jacob and others that support this Man in Black!

Whew...all caught up again!

Mike V. said...

interesting speculation from Doc Jensen if you want to believe the timeline is altered at the end of season 5!

"Last week, I speculated that in the new Lost timeline that will flow out of Juliet's detonation of Jughead, the characters that angelic Jacob visited and conspicuously touched during the flashbacks — definitely Sawyer, Kate, Sun, Jin, Jack, Locke, and Hurley — will retain their memories of the previous, now-deleted timeline. (Similar yet slightly different to what happened to Desmond after he was physically obliterated by the Swan's implosion — his consciousness migrated to the fateful week in which he broke up with Penny.) If that conjecture proves true, I can easily see a poignant moment in which James Ford seeks out Juliet in her pre-Island life, finds her, and realizes that, unlike him, she has no past-life memory of the Island or their life together. She'll look at him as if he's crazy; he'll look at her with forlorn eyes. Goodbye, my Dharma lady. I'll always have your back. And then he'll walk away. I'm already investing in the Kleenex!

"

gnni4 said...

Geoffrey said:
The items Hurley got back when leaving jail (candy, cash, pen) were the same items Jacob gave Jack, Kate, and Sawyer.

Gotta mean something right?

I think this is was a brilliant observation! It was a fruit rollup, (more candyish than jerkyish). He gave Jin and Sun a blessing, and Locke an apology, does that fit into what he gave Hurley also? He told Hurley seeing his 'lost' friends could be a blessing, that he is not crazy, and that he had free will.

I need to watch that again. It's Wednesday and I don't know what to do tonight!

Jennifer

Weasel said...

Just wanted to say "Nice job with the interview".

David said...

I am really looking forward to the final season of LOST. I believe it will showcase some fresh new acting challenges for the very talented cast. The story arcs for some of the characters like Ben and Juliet has just been amazing. Kudos to the actors as I suspect they brought more that the writers initially suspected they would to their roles. Mark Pellegrino is such a talented actor, I hope to see a lot more of him as Jacob next season. Alan Dale (Widmore), Fionnula Flanagan (Hawking) - scene stealers. Claire returning, how can they make us wait 8.5 months?!

MJ said...

On the MIB (man in black) being the one who saved Ben - In that ep when young Charles found out he was mad - til they said Jacob wanted it. But - did the others take orders for years from someone they thought was Jacob, but wasn't ? Also recently they were very clear that there was another whole group of people at the temple. Are these two groups divided by Jacob and MIB worshippers?

Eloise did say if not everyone returned then unpredictable things could happen - so I guess Sun and Ben being in 07 was what that was.

I have trouble thinking that Christian and Claire are on the 'bad' side of this. So either MIB/Smokey are not also Claire/Christian - or MIB is not the evil one. Bean and Mr. Friendly have many times insisted they were on the good side - and I kinda believe that. THey might have done bad things - but I think in the end that they will be in that gray area of doing the wrong thing for the right cause. So - with Jacob not liking Ben - does that make Jacob bad ??

Mike V. said...

Don't have lots of time to post right now.

but...my bad on the Fruit Roll-up...Jerky didn't sound right when I said it! lol It is a great observation...I just wonder what the connection could be!

MJ, I think we're on the same page with the 2 groups of OTHERS (MIB vs. Jacob). Yeah...it really is tough to figure out right now who is good vs. bad with the information we have! All we have to go on is white/black and that could be intentional to throw us off!

Thanks Weasel! And David...I cannot wait either! I need to start rewatching everything pronto!

David said...

I am not so sure what is good or evil on the show any more. Some of the actions like the stealing and kidnapping of the children and Walt seem rather cruel to me. Or is this "cruelty" part of the growing and learning process Jacob was referring to?
The name of the ship being "Black Rock" has to have some sort of significance...or am I over thinking this?

MJ said...

Hey Mike ! I thought you did great on the Tampa news ! Waaay better than I could have ever been only minutes after trying to absorb that finale ! Kuddos !

And hey - who knew we were neighbors ! I'm right across the river in SJ !

Mike V. said...

David, the kidnapping could all could be part of whatever game Jacob and/or Man in Black are playing. And maybe they feel that their evil deeds are to serve a purpose for GOOD. I dunno...all I know is whoever is good vs. bad...all of their reasoning for everything that happened over 6 seasons better make sense!

MJ, thanks for the props on the interview! That's pretty crazy about south jersey. I grew up over there. Small World indeed!

Anonymous said...

I hope this has not been covered so far, and I apologize if it has. I have been struggling with this concept of God v. Satan that everyone has pinned on show, I thought the science was supposed to pan out, rather than spirituality. But, if there is a more spiritual context to the show, then what about Charlie? Charlie reminds me of a "Jesus" of sorts. He had a turbulent childhood (Gospel of Thomas??). He had brothers. He knew he would be more successful after his death. And after Desmond told him he was bound to die, he did it willingly to save the rest of the Lost crew. I always hoped he would “come back” to the show, but I never meant by resurrection. And didn’t Sun find his ring at the camp? So we know something of his is still there, kinda reminded me of Jack’s father’s shoes.
On the same track, but maybe this can be cleared up quickly…do we know who Charlie’s mother was? Could it have been Eloise? Richard said he was protecting the leader when he knocked her out. Maybe he was protecting her child (and this may not be Charlie, but maybe Daniel or someone else) rather than her. Just kicking that one around a little.
I think a lot of the things we are seeing are intentionally intriguing but inconsequential (Easter eggs) and are keeping us from seeing the greater picture, however I just did the same thing above. Great show.
Great blog!

Anonymous said...

Commenting on Hurley's release from jail and having his possessions inventoried and then being met by Jacob with a guitar case.....Lost will have a spin-off show modeled after the Blues Brothers. "We're onna mission from God"

Peter said...

Hey mike, great blog as usual! thanks for all these this season!

Anonymous, we know know that Eloise is Daniels mother and that is him who she is pregnant with. As for Chariles mother we were shown his parents in flash backs, but they have not been worked into the show, of what we have seen so far anyway.

Also wanted to add my two cents on the whole Jacob and dark guy being Gods. I myself don't think that's what they represent. I could stand corrected but I feel the show is not going to go down that road. Lost has always been about the science fiction, and to sum the whole show up with them being Gods...I just don't see it happening. In an interview with Michael Emerson I saw a while back they asked him what he thought the whole show was about and he said he felt the final answer would be one of science fiction and not a religious one at all. Now I know he isn't a writer on the show or anything, but I'd have to agree with him.
I think Jacob and this other "dark guy" have been on this island a long time all right, and definitely have some powers! But thats as much as I can think of them at this moment!

Mike V. said...

Thanks Peter! No problem...I enjoy writing these crazy blogs.

Yeah, GODS is a stretch I think. Good vs. Evil? Well, I think that's what any drama really boils down to doesn't it? So I didn't think THAT was a stretch to theorize on lol Of course though, LOST tries to show things from all sides and what motivates everyone into doing the evil deeds that they have done. Where is my point here? Oh yeah, from the very beginning...they have always said there will be a scientific way to explain everything. And then of course, after season 3/4ish they modified this statement to say that it would be Science-Fiction BASED on Fact. (i.e. anything you would find in a Michael Crichton novel) So yeah, I agree that the answers will be based in some kind of science. But, I don't think that necessarily means that they will abandon the FAITH aspect of the show while doing this. The show is all about Science vs. Fate, and I don't know if they intend to give us an answer on which one wins by the end of the show!

Thanks anonymous for the props! I agree, Eloise is definitely not Charlie's mother. I am starting to wonder who Penny's mother is though and how Penny came to be!

Funny stuff with the Blues Brothers reference anonymous#2! lol

Separate indirectly LOST related topic. I'll probably make it a poll on the blog. With the show wrapping up next year, I have to start considering next steps on what to do with my blogging career. Sure, there is Idol but that is nowhere near as fun as speculating about the best show on tv LOST! So I ask you, if I were to start a blog on a new show...any thoughts on which one I should consider? I do love FRINGE, but I don't know if I'm hooked enough or find it AS intriguing as I do LOST! There is, of course, the FLASH FORWARD show premiering in the fall that is meant to be LOST's successor. It would be interesting to start blogging about a show right from the start! Heroes has been a trainwreck since the season finale of season 1, so no thanks there! 24 is great again, but it probably only has one season left in it. What else is LEFT? There really is going to be a void on TV once LOST is gone! Of course, there is also the option to just keep this blog going and do some "REWATCHING LOST AFTER IT'S OVER" Recaps to point out some crazy things, question if the producers really knew what they were doing from the beginning with certain things not adding up, etc... lol Of course, I could do that anyway! Anyway...no big deal, just wondering if anyone had any suggestions!

David said...

The Eloise-Daniel-Widmore situation does raise a lot of questions. Did Eloise re-marry and have Daniel's last name changed to Faraday? I don't really buy that explanation because it seems a bit odd that both Hawking and Faraday are names of famous men of science.
Did Widmore mean that Faraday is his son biologically or in a "leader of a cult" kind of way? Charlotte's skill speaking Korean seemed so odd to, who is her father?
Daniel Faraday didn't seem to inherit any of the strong leadership skills that Eloise and Widmore both obviously have!
Eloise knew things before they happened...
How did Eloise take Widmore's banishment?
Who does Juliet resemble from Ben's past that Goodwin's wife had mentioned?
Back in season 4 - Locke made a comment to Ben that it seemed odd that Jacob would tell the Others to move into the post-holocaust Dharma barracks. Perhaps Richard Alpert just follows orders from both Jacob and Dude X without knowing the difference? Is there more than one Richard? Remember wild haired unshaven Richard?
I personally don't believe science and faith are at odds. The writers have clearly woven Catholic ideas into some aspects of the tapestry of the show and that particular ideology states that science and faith are inseparable. In fact a lot of the great Catholic scientists - Marconi, Da Vinci, Pasteur etc. took it for granted that one went with and enhanced the other. The distinct separation that is popular with many today only began in the last few centuries.
I don't think the LOST writers are illustrating a God vs. Devil scenario as far as Jacob goes. Perhaps Jacob and Dude X are beings with some sort of higher evolved consciousness that enables them to manipulate our laws of physics and nature as well as extraordinary perceptive gifts?
I am rambling and having Wednesday night withdrawal symptoms with no more LOST for a while....

Mike V. said...

all good points and questions david?

As for Juliet reminding Ben of someone. I always had a crazy theory that this might tie into Jack's ex-wife Sarah somehow because Ben told Jack that Juliet looked like Sarah. But I really don't know how that would work! lol But now that we know Juliet lived with DHARMA for 3 years...then we started to think that Juliet looked just like Juliet! Of course, that is, until Ben lost is memory after Richard Took his innoncence away in the temple! (just sounds so wrong!) So yep...still a good question!

We know Widmore loves giving people aliases of famous philosphers and scientists or whatever (Jeremy Bentham), so maybe he named Faraday too??? I dunno. But yeah, I'm not sold with what we know that Charles is indeed a biological father of Daniel's! Of course, maybe they changed his name to hide the fact that he was Wimdore's son? But then why wouldn't he just be Hawking?

I too am wondering how Eloise knew things before they happened (like the red shoes thing) If she somehow ends up with that journal in 1977...then Daniel may have documented many things that he knew about Desmond and all of that fun stuff. But the man with the red shoes dying? Yeah, there is something crazy going on there.

Good point on all of the science/faith stuff. I was just making the point that it has been a large theme throughout the show and it put Jack and Locke at odds against each other early on in the show's run and continued all the way up to this season when Jack finally gave in to his "DESTINY". I just don't know if see the answers to the big mysteries of the show literally proving the existence of a higher being. But at the same time, I don't think they'd go as far as DISPROVING it either! lol How's that for being VAGUE?! Of course, I say all of this and then how do you explain Jacob appearing to HEAL Locke after he fell out the window? Jacob not aging? Jacob making Richard not age??? Interesting thought with Jacob/Man in Black being further EVOLVED! But HOW did THAT happen in the first place if that's the case? lol

I definitely remember ragged Richard, and I want answers!!!

Love the ramblings, keep them coming. I'm sure I'll be thinking of some other ones eventually too!

horseman said...

Here's another one to chew on...Regarding flight 316, we now know that not replicating the flight exactly caused inconsistencies, with some Losties going to 2007 and some to 1977. My interpretation is that therefore one of them is wrong. But which one? And how can that be? Assuming they all should have gone to 2007, then WHH in 1977 falls apart, doesn't it? And if they all should have been in 1977, then there is no dead FLocke in 2007 stabbing Jacob.

Am I missing something or is this another mystery that might be an inconsistency / error?

Mike V. said...

Horseman, I guess since it was always SUPPOSED to happen that way, I try not to get tripped up on it. As for Locke/Bizarro Locke/UN-Locke/FLocke possibly showing up in 1977....I'm not sure it would have mattered. Remember, we saw Christian Shephard at the very beginning of time on the island (or however long ago it was) when he instructed Locke to turn the donkey wheel and SACRIFICE himself to bring the O6 back. How did Christian get back to THAT time? Granted, we don't know if Christian and B.Locke are of the same breed just yet. Anyway, yeah I guess you could really get tripped up thinking about this stuff too much. Fortunately, I think our time travel discussions will be to a minimum in season 6!

BTW - If anyone was interested in seeing a sneak peak at the Remake of "V" with Elizabeth Mitchell. Here it is. Looks pretty good! If we didn't have confirmation that Juliet would be back "in some form" in season 6, I wouldn't have been too confident based on her primary role on V!

V - Reboot Sneak Peak

Mike V. said...

New Getting LOST on TV Guide.com Nothing we haven't speculated about already, but they do discuss the producer's having a pre-conceived vision for the final scene of the Series Finale.

Rk said...

Well Mike I think you've found your new show to blog from the look of the trailer for V.It looks pretty cool and who can resist a good old fashioned alien invasion plot.Which may be a segue to our science fiction based plot for Lost. Anybody out there think that maybe our two characters Jacob and other guy are in a struggle to get off the island for good (back to their real world/planet/dimension)and that the island an entity unto itself is somehow keeping them imprisoned? Neither one of them really speak about doing things for the good of the island like Ben and the other leaders have.In this scenario they keep bringing people to the island only to see the same results over and over much like desmond seeing Charlie being killed over and over until finally the event happens." Just a thought,I haven't really thought it all out.So many questions, like how does Jacob go back and forth in time and how does he geton and off the island?Can black shirt guy do this also? where did the people who built the temple and statue go? Somehow I feel Richard is one of these "ancients".Sorry I'm rambling sort of a stream of conscieceness thing. I love all the theories floating around on here keep up the good work

Mike V. said...

I may have to start a separate blog and just share thoughts on a few shows instead of full-fledged blogs next season. And then if one takes off after next year...I can utilize that blog to start writing recaps!

That seems like a crazy amount of work though...especially with the day job still holding me down! lol

I'll save discussing your theory, RK, for another time! Crazy Day Job beckons again!

cdstedman said...

Thanks for the V sneak peak. Definitely going to check it out.

David said...

Charlotte knowing about the "donkey wheel" at the bottom of the well? Her speaking Korean - like Jacob and the Kwons.
Sun's father's links to Charles Widmore?
Four generations of Shepherds (including Claire and Aaron) and their links or allusions to the island? Something cryptic about Jack's grandfather and Christian's black shoes for Locke's corpse as opposed to Christian's white shoes in his original coffin.
Jacob visits the Oceanics at pivotal times in their lives but some of the time traveling Oceanics also are on the island at pivotal times in the island's history. i am certain that Miles saw the complete Egyptian monument statue thing at the same time Jacob and Dude X were having their polite conversation.
3 years Desmond spends in the hatch.
3 years the Oceanic 6 and Oceanic Left Behinds spend after the island is moved.
3 years between 2007 (when Jacob is "killed") and 2010 when the show will end. Will the final scenes be in present day 2010?
3 years the New Testament says Jesus' ministry lasted. 3 days between his execution and Resurrection...

David said...

Walt may also be an adolescent version of whatever nature it is that Jacob and Dude X are?
Notice Walt's sinister side manifesting more than once in the killing of birds and the burning of the raft. Walt also seems to be able to be "outside of time" to by witnessing future events like Locke being in a suit - real Locke and also surrounded by people that want to kill him - fake Locke.
The yellow labrador - Vincent seems a little psychic to!
Walt on the island always politely referred to Locke as "Mr. Locke", off island he referred to Locke as "John", kind of like the island Christian Shepherd...

JP said...

Hi Mike V. and fellow Lost Addicts. I'm new to blogging and chose your blog to share my thoughts and theories about Lost. As far as I have been able to determine this is the best Lost blog on the net. I normally prefer to be on the outside looking in but with Lost, there is just too much to handle on my own. I have many ideas and questions that aren't being addressed anywhere and decided to share in order to get some feedback, positive or negative.
There is way too much to cover in one entry so I'll start with just one for now.
The Incident: It has been one of the biggest topics of concern over the last few weeks.
I say concern because fans have been worried that if the incident is prevented from happening then Flight 815 wouldn't crash and then land safe and sound at LAX, thus the last fives would have been for nothing.
Well, it seemed quite obvious to me but everybody missed it, even Daniel Faraday and Darlton, LoL.
Of course The Incident is what ultimately caused Flight 815 to come apart and rain down all over the island but it wasn't what caused Flight 815 to be 1000 mile off course over the island in the first place. That would be Jacob. Incident or no incident The Losties of Flight 815 was destined to be on the island because it was part of Jacob's plan.
I'm sure it wasn't overlooked by the writers but intentionally left out for the sake of the story. Otherwise the whole Jughead story would have been unusable.
At this point, it doesn't matter but I thought it was an interesting point and wanted to share it with you guys. I'll share other stuff as time permits. Thanks Mike for a great blog/outlet:-)!Later.

David said...

I agree with JP.
Jacob wanted some of those Oceanic folks to come to the island for whatever reason.
A lot of the other stuff might be a "red herring", the same as the one Jacob caught and cooked and sliced into two halves - perhaps knowing Dude X was coming along?
Also worth noting is that Desmond somehow plays a very important key part in these events. If Desmond had simply chosen to leave the hatch after Kevin's departure...
Lets not forget Penny Widmore either, she has definitely inherited her father's determination, perception and leadership skills. It takes an unusual person to keep looking for an island for 3 years, what made her look for it and know about it in the first place? Am I forgetting some major plot points as far as Penny goes?

Anonymous said...

Mike,

First up -- great job on the blog. I am definitely a Lost addict and I love your site. How bad is it? I started dating this girl and she ... watched the first four seasons because she thought it would make me happy.

I don't know why I always thought this but I think I'm right -- I went back and watched the Season 1 DVD and I think that the black and white stones you talk about for Adam and Eve are backgammon stones from the game Walt, Locke et. al played on the beach. Am I smoking crack here or what? I think that has some type of significance.

Once again, great blog.

Mike V. said...

Hi Guys...just wanted to check in and say thanks for all of the compliments! (best LOST site out there? WOW! Too kind!) And any girlfriend that would watch 4 seasons of LOST to make a man happy is a KEEPER! lol

As for all of the theories, there are some good ones there....With the Holiday Weekend and everything, I haven't had a chance to sit down and respond to any of them. But I will try to get to them sooner or later! Keep checking in and sharing your thoughts. And Happy Memorial Day Weekend to everyone in the States!

David said...

Something else I would like to share. I just finished listening to the "Chronicles of Narnia" narrated series of audiobooks by HarperCollins.
Much better than the awful movies by the way!
As you may know, there have been some references to C.S. Lewis and his work in the show so far - The Lamppost, Charlotte Staples Lewis etc.
In the last two "Narnia" books - The Silver Chair and The Last Battle there are the following:
- Father Time who somehow is responsible for the differences in the passage of time between Narnia and the world as we know it.
- The White Rock is a pivotal location in a sequence of events that bring the sagas to a climax.
- Shadow Land that ultimately reveals a lot of the truths being sought throughout the saga series.
- A final battle of the good guys and the bad guys that takes place at the entrance to a stable room that only a select few dared enter. In this stable room takes place the ultimate duel of the good and evil architects, the evil one has been acting as an impostor of the good one. The outcome of this duel "changes everything" and destinies are fulfilled in ways beyond all the main characters' imaginations.
A character that was at heart faithful and loyal but gets corrupted due to manipulations falls and then ultimately gets redeemed.
I could go on and on.... ;-)

JP said...

Hey everybody, Some observations about "Jughead".
First of all, how did the US military and a giant hydrogen bomb get on the island in the first place?
I know we're led to believe that it's because of bomb testing but I thought that the island was suppose to be invisible or whatever.
But anyway, for the sake of the story there is a hydrogen bomb on the island which comes into play in the finale. Jack drops the core of the bomb that Sayid programmed to detonate on impact down the drilling shaft and nothing happens.
It's my opinion that the reason that it didn't detonate is because of the electromagnetic field. It's common knowledge that electrical circuits and current are disrupted by electromagnetic fields. But on the other hand the jeep that Radzinsky tried to flee in wouldn't have started either but it did.
Whatever the case, the bomb doesn't go off and later a surprisingly alive Juliet starts banging it with a rock and then the screen goes white, leading us to believe that the bomb exploded, but.....it didn't. Maybe because of the electromagnetism thing or maybe because Jacob didn't let it explode.
I think that the bright light was another time "flash" and I think that it happened the moment that Jacob dies.
Getting back to "the bomb", I think that after the Losties flashed away, Dharma built the Swan Station, discovered the bomb and somehow used it as the fail safe that Desmond ultimately destroyed the Swan Station with years later.
This would clearly explain Desmond's exposure to electromagnetism and radiation in "The Constant".

David said...

Penny featuring prominently in quite a few season finales must point to something. Weird that we have never actually seen her interact with her father - Charles Widmore.
Weird that Naomi and co. had the same picture of Penny and Desmond that Desmond had.
Weird that Penny's signal came through to the Looking Glass station as soon as Ben's jamming signal was disrupted?
Also the name of the wine that Penny picks up from the monastery Desmond is a novice at and where they first meet is Moriah. Mount Moriah is where Abraham was about to sacrifice his son Isaac before he was stopped by a divine intervention.
Desmond talked to Charlie Pace about Abraham's sacrifice in a previous episode.
I also believe that the white flash at the end of Season 5 is a time jump and because of Jacob's apparent death some interesting things are going to occur in terms of timelines.

Mike V. said...

David man, you're on a roll with the QUESTIONS still left unanswered. I'm gonna guess that some of this stuff may be left open for interpretation (i.e. they don't have time to answer or never had an answer! lol)

I may just have to pick and choose from your list. But if I don't say anything, then assume I agree!

Do we know for sure there is a link between Widmore and Mr. Paik (Sun's father)? I think we assumed that there was. But I'm not so sure anymore. Looks like Jacob was at Sun and Jin's wedding and somehow "luring" them unwillingly to end up on 815. Maybe Paik is involved though. He did send them on that flight.

With the 3 years, you forgot about Juliet spending 3 years on the island pre-815 as well. Interesting that it's the same timeframe as Desmond was there. But nice observations with the 3's!

I thought Walt set fire to the raft himself, not with any kind of POWERS?! What I want to know about Walt is how he appeared to Locke at the DHARMA grave and was OLDER. At the time it was still 2004. I want to know if, based on what we know now with Walt having the dream of Locke...if Walt can appear to people through his dreams...and if somehow he had a dream OFF-island at a later time (2005/6) about appearing to locke on-island...and Locke saw him in 2004. It's bizarre...but then again..so is LOST!

Yeah that's a nice call on the "RED HERRING" that Jacob caught. I had read that somewhere and forgot to bring it up. Maybe the red herring itself is a red herring and just there to drive us crazy! lol But it could be an allusion to telling us all is not as it seems!

Yeah, the Narnia ties are definitely there. Interesting with the WHITE ROCK. I know LOST borrows from a lot of other novels and sci-fi shows as homages....I wonder if they would actually rip off another novel's endgame for theirs or have something completely different in mind for theirs! In any case though, definitely some interesting thoughts with THE LAST BATTLLE. I read that book years ago and don't remember any of it! lol

I'm guessing Penny and Charles have interacted in the past or Charles had people watching over Penny (before they went off the map) hence the PICTURE. We know by the time Penny rescues the O6, she wants nothing to do with her father which is why we never see them together. But with the photo...yeah there are definitely questions about that crazy photo. And there are theories out there pointing to Desmond CHANGING things when he went back in time and relived the taking of that Photo. There was only ONE Polaroid (sp?) of that picture taken. And Desmond had a copy IN THE HATCH...and then we found out that Penny had a copy on her Nightstand. What is THAT about? Sure, it could just be a mistake. But I think in the version that we saw in "Flashes Before Your Eyes" (season 3) Penny ends up with the photo, because Desmond knows he has to break up with Penny...he throws the ring in the water and joins the military. Now he did this in the original timeline as well (that he remembered) except he didn't TAKE the ring originally (according to Hawking, and how did she know that!?!?!?) So maybe in that timeline...HE took the picture and brought it to the hatch? Thus creating 2 copies of the picture? Desmond being unique and truly special may have actually ALTERED time? Ugh I dunno. But as for Naomi having a picture of Dez and Penny...it looked like a color copy of one of the pictures. They may have gotten it from Penny's version and hmmmmmm maybe they didn't have that picture until Desmond blew the hatch and relived the moment where penny DID get the picture!?!? Of course, if their cover story was to RESCUE the Oceanic Crew...then where would having a picture of Desmond and Penny fall into that story? I'm guessing we'll never get the answer to that one! But definitely an intriguing one to think about!

Mike V. said...

As for the white flash at the end of The Incident, yeah we don't for sure know that it is the bomb going off. It could be a FLASH of our LOSTIES back to their time. Or it could be both! We know that the Island doesn't blow up. We know DHARMA people survive the incident (maybe one with one less hand!) Of course how did Chang have 2 hands again in the PEARL Video which was filmed AFTER The Swan Video? (1982 I think?) That always befuddled me and I don't think they have admitted to a mistake yet either! Anyway, 8 months to go now right?! lol

Okay, JP, I'm tackling your comments inthe next post! Thanks David for all of your comments. I'm sure you're not done yet!! :-)

Mike V. said...

JP, Thanks again for choosing my blog as your outlet for your thoughts. It is definitely an honor to be labeled as "THE BEST SITE" out there when I know there are lots of sites out there better than this one with my crazy ramblings! lol

I gotta say, the "1000 miles off course" comment is really a good one that, you're right, no one has been discussing! What WAS that all about? Surely, there had to be a reason. I would HOPE that in the final season, if not the final episode, we would be treated to seeing Flight 815 from another perspective that shows us the entire story of why that plane ended up where it did and why everyone ended up on it...and why certain people survived with no scratches and other people died. etc... There are still lots of mysteries about that flight (the original mysteries of LOST) that we want answered! Yeah, there are lots of new mysteries we want answered too...but it all goes back to flight 815.

Great question on the US Military finding the island and bringing a Nuke with them. I've wondered it myself! Whether they will focus any time to answering that question remains to be seen!

As for the bomb not going off...yeah..back in my JUGHEAD recap, I had mentioned that I thought somehow Jughead would end up buried in the hatch and surrounded by concrete....I do like you taking it one step further and saying that it actually ends up being the FAILSAFE! That makes a lot of sense. And totally agree about Desmond being exposed to electromagnetism AND Radiation when blowing the hatch. I've been bringing that one up since the Jughead recap too I think lol

Other Anonymous post! Thanks again for writing in and the compliments. As for the Black and White stones....I think at the time we had just saw this recurring theme of Black vs. White...first introduced to us during the Backgammon game. The next time we saw it was in the black and white stones on Adam and Eve. I think they are 2 different things but meant to deliver the same theme. Regardless, whoever Adam and Eve are will need to have those stones! And it would sure be cool if it actually MEANT something other than them just having them! But, we have now seen the black and white theme one more time in the season 5 finale with what Jacob and his Rival are wearing in the opening scene (hence, the man in black). What does it all mean? Locke foreshadows about a possible battle between good (light) and evil (dark) in the Pilot Episode:

LOCKE: Backgammon is the oldest game in the world. Much older than chess. Archaeologists found sets when they excavated the ruins of Ancient Mesopotamia. Would you like to guess how old they were?

WALT: A hundred years?

LOCKE: Five thousand years.

WALT: (whispers to himself)...Five thousand...

LOCKE: That's older than Jesus Christ.

WALT: Did they have dice and stuff?

LOCKE: Yes. But theirs weren't made of plastic. (then) Their dice were made of bones.

WALT: (slightly nervous) Cool.


LOCKE: The Persians called it "Takhteh Nard" which means "Battle on Wood". Two players. Two sides. One is light. One is dark.

Eh, I don't really have a theory here, but just was curious to remember exactly what Locke said and wanted to share. The Thousands Of Years comment resonates a bit more now with us knowing how old the Island's residents may truly be!

Thanks again for everyone's comments. Great stuff...keep it coming!

David said...

3 decades Widmore was leader of the Others/Hostiles.
3 decades split in time between the Ajira 316 passengers - 1977 and 2007.

Russian - recurring language being spoken - Mikhail, Bea Klugh, Ilana and Jacob
Did Sayid kill a Russian dude while working for Ben Linus? Can't remember for sure.

Juliet's time jumping?
Was this purely because her destiny was to be with the hydrogen bomb?
Will they ever show us how folks like Juliet acquired their amazing fighting skills and Latin speaking skills?
Why weren't the Others speaking Latin in 2004 with each other in order to further confuse the Oceanics? Would have made more sense for Ben's instructions to Juliet etc. to have been in Latin.
Perhaps to tasking on the script writing for the show!
Is Caesar really dead? If he is, that really surprised me that an actor of his current success would agree to appear in such a brief role. A great "RED HERRING" being named Caesar when it turns out that the Latin speaking Ilana and Bram are actually the important ones!
Ilana and Bram seemed to find "Jacob's Cabin" easily enough? Hurley's connection to it and his special connection to Jacob? Perhaps Hurley was adopted as a baby?

Jenn said...

I was on vacation during the finale and wasn't able to read the blog until today. I wanted to just say...GREAT JOB! I like how you recap the scenes in a logical order, it really helps put things into perspective.

And I am not sure if you are a BSG fan, but if so, my vote for your next blog is Caprica.

From one SJ native to another -Thanks for another great season of blogs and I look forward to reading them again next season.

Weasel said...

I could have sworn that in season 1, the 815 pilot (aka Matt Parkman) said something about a storm or something that they had to go around and that is why they were off course. I do agree that Jacob probably "Brought them there" as mentioned by the MIB... just not sure how.

Anonymous said...

hmmm all of this reference to black and white have me wondering about rose and bernard. they always seem to appear at poignant times in the storyline of lost with a simple voice of reason. also... other than the flashbacks regarding rose's illness and meeting bernard... what are their other ties to the island? it doesn't hurt that they are an interracial couple further pointing out our distinct pull of good versus evil, black & white theories. uuuughhh!!! 8.5 months!!! how did rose "just know" that bernard was ok in the earlier season. why are she always so calm!!!

David said...

Rose also mentioned in the pilot that the sound of the Smoke Monster among the trees reminded her of something or seemed awfully familiar....

Could she have been unknowingly referring to their experiences on the island in the 1970s?
She said she was from the Bronx.
Is there a connection to Walt?
Vincent the yellow labrador seems to have automatically settled with Rose and Bernard now that Walt is no longer around.
Did Walt's mother die with the secret of how he was conceived?
Bea Klugh seemed to think Walt was not Michael's biological son.

The writers did say Rose and Bernard will have their tale told in the final season but it also seems so many other characters need those final details to!

What was the significance of Juliet getting branded by the Others as punishment for her treason? Is this what enabled her to jump through time with the Oceanic Left Behinds and Island-borns like Miles, Charlotte and Daniel?

I love to hate these writers that have made us addicted to all these questions!

Mike V. said...

David, I too wonder how the OTHERS become official "OTHERS" and get crazy fighting skills (ethan's super strength when fighting jack in season 1, juliet's badass maneuvers, even some of Ben's Jason Bourne-esque moves)....who knows!?!?

I too was shocked about Caesar's quick ousting on LOST...but at the same time, I don't see his role being flushed out any further. But what do I know? lol

Thanks Jenn! Another South Jersean...love it! I'm glad you enjoy my recapping style. Helps me put it all into perspective as I'm writing it too! I don't think I noticed that Jacob touched each person in the flashbacks until I recapped them all together. crazy stuff! As for BSG...I've heard nothing but great things about it and I fully intend to watch it all! But alas, I have not seen one episode. So Caprica could be a tough one to get into! It's going to be really tough getting into ANY blogging of another show next season...just with the fact that LOST will still be on! lol So whatever I dive into, if anything, it will be brief snippets or thoughts with a potential for growth in the future! :-)

Weasel this may not be verbatum but but I looked up the dialog from the PILOT spoken by the um...Pilot lol Here goes

"Six hours in. Our radio went out. The
redundant system... the transponder --
wasn't functioning. No one could see us.
So we turned back. To land in Fiji.
When we hit that turbulence... we were
over a thousand miles off course --
They'll be looking in the wrong place."

Hmmmm so we did know why they were off course, but the fact that the systems stopped functioning...that's the interesting part!

Good point anonymous on Rose's psychic thoughts in season 1. Also, in season 2 "Everybody Hates Hugo" when Hurley was having the dream in the DHARMA hatch with all of the food and Jin speaking English and all of that fun....there was some crazy song he put on the record player.....and later in the non-dream Rose was humming the same tune that was in Hurley's dream. I mean....what is THAT about??? Yeah, Black and White stones, Rose and Bernard being Black and White....it all seems to be pointing towards Adam and Eve. But yeah, there still seems to be more going on there with Rose. Good call on them being a voice of reason most of the times that they appear.

And come on...it'll have been 2 weeks tomorrow since the finale. We're at 8 months now! :-) We can make it!

Mike V. said...

David, I'd just forget about anything that happened during LOST's worst episodes. And considering Juliet's branding was in the same episode that Jack was obsessed with getting tattoos??? YEP, discount it! lol

Or you could say that Juliet being branded, may be what caused her to time jump with the LOSTIES instead of being protected like the rest of the OTHERS. i dunno!

yeah...i can imagine once the last hours of LOST air...there are going to be lots of questions like this that come up that people will say were never answered.

Team Darlton will have plenty of opportunities after the saga is complete to come up with outlets to address these questions. Encyclopedias, LOST "additional adventures" novels, potential Movie Franchise. You name it! lol

David said...

I would ignore Juliet's branding but it looks a little bit like the "donkey wheel". Probably nothing!

Mike V. said...

yeah David, I was kidding about ignoring it...anything to bust on that episode. Whew I still have difficulties deciding whether it was that one or FIRE + WATER (aaron baptizing) that was worse!

Interesting that it looked like the donkey wheel, i'll have to check that out!

Anonymous Ben said...

Okay, I finally went through the comments. Here are a couple things that I wanted to mention/ask that I don't think have been covered. Some people want to know where Richard's loyalties lie, but he said himself that he is just a messenger, so I don't think he is on anyone's side. Yet, he knew the answer to what lies in the shadow of the statue, which is the one who will protect us, so I am thinking he is a Jacob follower.

Next, we are still wondering why Sun and Ben didn't go back to the 70's time line. I think it was because they weren't supposed to go back to the island. We all know that Ben thought he found a loophole to get back, but he was only half successful. Also, Jin gave his ring, a sign of a promise and love, to Locke to convince Sun never to come back to the island. I think this is a definite possibility of why those two remained in "present" time.

Also, I am thinking that the statue is destroyed by the people coming on the black rock. They do have a massive amount of dynamite, which would more than adequately do the job.

Thoughts or comments? I love reading this blog and all of what everyone has to say. Keep up the good work Mike!!!

Peter said...

Hey Mike, just reading on lostpedia about this lost rewatch thing that some lost sites are doing. Are you joining in on this on your blog?

Mike V. said...

Thanks Ben!

Agree it totally makes sense that the Black Rock crew would be responsible for the Statue's destruction. Didn't even THINK about the Dynamite but that even adds MORE plausibility! I just thought about the Man in Black's comment "They Destroy." Crazy stuff.

Sun and Ben...well Ben was never on the original Oceanic 815 flight...and they were told to recreate the flight as much as possible. Based on the RECAP special that aired before the finale, they basically said that because they didn't not recreate the scenario as best as possible, it caused the situation where they were split in time. Of course, that was always the intent of Eloise Hawking's since she knew what was going to happen. So it's kinda some crazy logic there if you try to think about it too much!

Peter, I saw the "REWATCHING LOST" thing on Lostpedia but didn't look into it. Is there more to it than just rewatching and writing about it? lol I'd love to say that I am going to do that this off-season...and if i get season 1 and 2 on Blu-Ray this June, I might just be convinced to start watching again. MAYBE I will make a few posts here and there if I do start rewatching....but with my upcoming wedding in 10 days (shameless plug) and home purchase and all of that fun stuff...I can say that keeping up with LOST will not be my #1 priority this summer!

I definitely am interested in rewatching Seasons 1-6 AFTER the Series Finale Airs. I think that would be a really interesting experience. And Blogging about my experience would be kinda fun too. Maybe even the readers can join me on my quest. I can give out homework assignments! (we have to watch up to WALKABOUT for Episodes 1-4 Discussion on July 1 2010! lol)

Ahh good times. I may have to look into the Rewatching Lost campaign to see what it's all about though!

Peter said...

Well I just had a quick look at it, it seems theres a schedule of episodes to watch each week, 3 or 4 a week, then different sites write about them, nothing to in depth I don;t think. But its spaced out to finish when season 6 starts. Seems like you do have enough on your plate at the mo tho lol

Mike V. said...

Definitely an intriguing concept! And sounds like I was on a similar path with my idea for next season lol Great way to pass the time between S5 and S6 though.

http://blog.lostpedia.com/2009/05/lost-rewatch.html

Well, if I do participate, I'll be playing catch-up later on! :-)

MJ said...

In ABC's recap of the finale they answer the question of the statue. Taweret !

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=recap#t=162212&d=201648

So - another question we can check off.

Mike V. said...

Thanks MJ! Not sure why I never think to look there lol

Mike V. said...

Doc Jensen is prepping his final column but shared the top 10 mysteries still perplexing people:

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2009/05/lost-the-secret.html

He also linked to the statue confirmation that MJ provided!

JP said...

I've been trying to stay out of the statue controversy but I just have to put in my 2 cents worth. The "official" identity of the statue seems to be Taweret, according to whoever wrote the ABC recap of the finale.
Well, this is my take on it: If the statue is of Taweret, then why does it depict the body of an adult human MALE and NOT the body of a pregnant FEMALE hippopotamus with sagging breasts(the way that pictures and 3000 year Egyptian statues depict)?
The ONLY similarity between the LOST statue and depictions of Taweret are the ears and the low flat headdress. So, either somebody was wrong about the "official" name of the statue or somebody designed the LOST statue completely wrong or that there is something about the statue that is being kept secret and will be revealed in season 6. I personally hope it's the latter, otherwise it is an insult to our intelligence to suggest that the statue is Taweret when it is so obviously not.

JP said...

Hey Mike V,
Have you heard the rumor/theory that Eloise Hawking and Jacob had an affair and that Desmond is a product of that affair?
Interesting idea, I think.
I guess we could take it one step further too and say that maybe Daniel Faraday was Jacob's son as well or instead of Desmond.

David said...

I agree with JP:
"That there is something about the statue that is being kept secret and will be revealed in season 6".
There has to be a reason why the statue keeps being shown from funny angles and not a full clear frontal view. It had better not be a "RED HERRING"!!!
Perhaps the confusion surrounding the identity of the statue is an illusion to the "corruption" the anti-Jacob dude was talking about?
Maybe we will get some great flashbacks to Egypto-Greek times when the statue was built? Will ABC okay the budget for that? Some flashbacks to Medieval-Renaissance times when Latin was the language of the educated and enlightened? How many more weeks left now until 2010???

David said...

Noticed that there have never been any full panoramic shots of the Island and the smaller island nearby either. Perhaps this is in line with keeping the Island a mystery? Just how large is this Island?

Mike V. said...

Yeah I had the same questions about the crazy statue being Tawaret which is why I didn't want to confirm that it was in the blog when I posted it. But at the same time, Lindelof said that we would for certain be able to know what the statue was by the end of season 5. Sure, I agree there still has to be more to the statue BEING on the island. But if they're saying it's Tawaret, then for now we have to assume it is I guess! lol

as for the Island...yeah we've never seen a full shot of it. We know it's huge though. There have been a few shots of it when they were on the raft and the helicopter that showed how big it was. But the simple existence of the island and its healing/moving powers surely need to be explained...and maybe showing a full shot of the island would indeed help to answer the question! I dunno!

Weeks until 2010? yikes I dunno...8 months....4 weeks a month....32 weeks until Lost is back? Probably close to that!

EJ said...

I am still not clear on how we know Eloise is pregnant with Daniel when she shoots him in 1977. Widmore is Penny's father, too. Could Daniel and Penny be full siblings? When Desmond flashes back to Daniel's lab, how old is Daniel? If born in 1977/78, he'd be only 21 or so (wasn't it about 1996?). And what about the girl who suffered from Daniel's experiments and whose 24/7 care is being paid for by Widmore? I think there's more to that, too.

Now that I'm hooked on reading through LOST blogs, I have to agree this is an excellent one!

David said...

I don't think we are clear of WHO Eloise was carrying at the time she shot Daniel. Daniel's age doesn't wok with the timeline, he would have been barely out of teenage years as a professor at Oxford. Daniel may have already been born in 1977...
Theresa, Daniel's friend that is in a coma whose treatment Widmore is paying for may have her own time travel tales to tell at a later date. Boone had a nanny that was also named Theresa.
Something definitely not quite right with the whole Penny-Desmond-Daniel-Eloise-Widmore setup. There may be a paradox going on there kind of like the compass paradox between Locke and Richard Alpert.

Mike V. said...

forgot to chime in on the Desmond's parents theory. It is very strange that we've met mostly all character's parents, but nothing for Desmond. Makes you think there is more going on there doesn't it? I like the idea that Eloise may be his mother too. Not sure how it would all work out, but it would be interesting!

With Alan Dale (Widmore) possibly being a full-time cast member next season, I have a feeling we will be diving more into the Widmore family tree!

EJ, thanks for the props!

EJ said...

One more thing I left off my last post -- Juliet is a doctor, so it is not impossible for her to be familiar with Latin, although medical terms and her ability to speak fluently are probably two different things.

Also, I seem to remember this from when Juliet was first with the Losties and they went through the sonar fence to get away from the black smoke. They all looked at her for an explanation, and she said something, almost sarcastically and humorously, like, "Yeah, we're not sure about that one, either." So, somehow, Smokey either respects the sonar fence perimeter or really can't cross it. It comes in when an enraged Ben lets it in after Alex's murder. Food for thought -- unless you already worked this one over in prior postings.

Finally, do we know who Aaron's father is? All I can recall is Claire stating (maybe to Charlie?) that he didn't want Claire to keep the baby (or be part of its life?) and then left her.

I agree, David. There's more to the Widmore family, et al mystery. I find that intriguing....

What if this turns out to be Desmond's story? We have no knowledge of his parents or childhood, do we? Just his past adult years in the military and monastery, right? He did not know Eloise Hawking when he found her, but did she know him somehow?

EJ said...

Mike V -- you beat me to posting about questioning Desmond's parents! I should have typed faster!

David said...

They never told us what exactly Desmond did to end up in prison either.
Desmond seems to be the only one that time travels both on and off the island. None of the other characters have so far.
I could definitely see Daniel and Desmond as being siblings but that makes Eloise one really incredibly calculating and scheming character!
Fionulla Flanagan is a great actress - could they be setting her up to be the ultimate conflicted villainess? Here's looking forward to many more great scenes in season 6 with her, and Alan Dale as well. They bring so much gravitas to their characters.

David said...

Sonar fence keeps Smokey out as Richard Alpert confirmed but not Richard Alpert apparently.

Mike V. said...

yeah, i always wanted a backstory on Desmond's military days (besides what we saw in the CONSTANT) and why he went to military prison and got dishonorably discharged. There surely is a story there!

Sorry EJ, I do have to chime in on occasion! lol

As for smokey in the barracks...i think Ben summoned him from the underground tunnels. He pulled the chain on the Smokey Toilet in the tunnels and smokey came out. I think it may have been possible that it came UP from under the sonar fence.

juliet initially lied to kate about the smoke monster saying she never saw it (i think)...but once she stopped it from getting into the barracks with the fence she revised her statement saying they don't know what it is only how to keep it out. Or something like that. Man, sounds like it's time for a rewatch! lol

Aaron's father is the deadbeat guy that told Claire she should keep the baby and they would raise him together. then a few months into the pregnancy, he decided he didn't want to do that anymore and left her (Claire's season 1 flashback "Raised by Another"

Mike V. said...

Richard may have used the tunnels ALSO to get past the fence. they are, after all, very secretive about entering the tunnels in "Follow the Leader" and wanted to kill Kate when she tried to leave after learning about the entrance to the tunnels.

David said...

Claire's "baby daddy" was an artist. In fact one of his paintings was on the wall in Widmore's office. I don't know if this is just because they re-use props in making the show or if there is a connection between Widmore and the artist.

Mike V. said...

Information on Claire's baby daddy Thomas:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Thomas

They seem to talk about those paintings in Widmore's office so factually belonging to Thomas. Although, it never really has been confirmed. There were also those paintings in the Swan Hatch that people thought were his too. Again, never confirmed!

LOST does do some crazy things, but making Thomas an important part of the mythology in the final season? Yikes, I dunno...that might be a stretch!

Mike V. said...

based on Lostpedia, apparently the season 2 dvd explains that DESMOND was the hatch painter. I must've missed that! lol

Anonymous said...

Congratulations on your wedding, which I believe is today!

Kim said...

I have a STUPID observation which means nothing other than I've been so confused the whole time ...

When I first heard Penny & Desmond named their baby Charlie, my first thought was: they named him after her father???? (Charles Widmore) until obviously it hit me that they named him after "Charlie" Pace.

There's no connection there is there? Or is that too simple? I went and read Charlie's history on Lostpedia and don't see a connection, but it still kindof bugs me that there's a Charles and a Charlie, now Charle's grandson Charlie.

Father Goose said...

I'd like to hear how everybody would rate the seasons.

For me,
1. Season 4
2. Season 1
3. Season 2
4. Season 3
5. Season 5

I really didn't care about the time-shifting and confusing storylines this year. Even though we got a lot of answers, I wished they would've kept it simpler. Just my opinion. I just gotta hope that Season 6 will knock my socks off.

MJ said...

Whoa! I haven't been on the board since Mike V posted his news segment due to a really heavy work schedule and personal schedule ! Wow - I will have to play catch-up!

Saw an article on TV Guide.com today. It's a Matthew Fox interview - very very strong hints on where our final season will take us. I usually avoid specific info - but love the hints. LOL But - these are very strong hints - so beware those who like to stay 100% spoiler free!

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Fox-Lost-preview-1006821.aspx

auslost said...

Hi there.first time poster so bear with me.A TV series that has been very popular here in Australia,but probably not so much in the US,is called Dr Who.It concerns a time traveller(time lord) who is immortal,and passes through different worlds.The relevance to Lost may be that in one episode(Carnival of the Monsters),there is a ship travelling across the Indian ocean in the 1920's.Interestingly it never gets anywhere because it is just part of a collection of varying races suspended in a time vacuum for the amusement of other time lords.Whatever the characters do has no bearing on their futures,it is all controlled by others.The scene at the beginning of the last episode seems like 2 timelords manipulating people drawn to the island,for their own purposes.I urge you to look at this series.

TNT said...

I'm not sure whether this has been raised yet? But I wonder what the significance is that the 'rules' that Ben and Widmore can't kill each other are the same rules that Jacob and the ManInBlack can't kill each other. Anyone have thoughts on this?

Mike V. said...

Hey LOSTIES! Sory for my absense for a couple weeks. As you may have read in an anonymous post, I did get hitched a couple weeks ago so I've been on hiatus. (thanks btw to the anonymous congrats!)

Not sure if anyone has been participating in OPERATION: Rewatch LOST that has taken over the blogosphere. I, sadly, have not had time and not sure when I WILL have time to be doing a marathon viewing of LOST. But, if anyone discovers any findings from their rewatching, please post here!

For the comments since my last post:

Kim, right when we discovered the kid's name was Charlie I knew it was after Charlie Pace but couldn't help getting into conspiracy theories that maybe there was some wacky time travel thing that indicated that this was indeed Charles Widmore...but then I ruled it out as sick and twisted, even for LOST! lol

Father Goose, yikes, ranking the seasons??? I don't think I've even tried to do that yet. I'm always partial to FIRST seasons of my favorite shows, so I'd probably rank season 1 as the best. I love how season 3 ended and I might rank that 2nd if it wasn't for the slow opening to the season. Season 4 was great, season 2 was great (but again, slow opening). Season 5 was fantastic too, but yeah a little crazy with the time travel. I think I'm going to need to wait until the show is complete to be able to rank them in hindsight as a complete work of art! lol (translation: I'm copping out!)

Thanks for the link MJ, I read the article and it was a good time. DARKUFO has the entire video

here!
(thanks horseman for the link!)

Thanks for the info on DR. WHO Auslost, I will have to check that out!

TNT, I think I may have even brought up that whole concept of "can't kill each other" in this blog post and the ties to Charles/Ben vs. Jacob/M.I.B. I would think that it cannot be coincidence as things on LOST rarely are. But we'll see!

BTW, Doc Jensen Column, finally!

Thanks for keeping the comments going guys, I'll try to check in more often now. And of course, will post new BLOG posts whenever I feel them necessary!

MJ said...

Congrats on the marriage Mike. ANd knowing you - you probably purposely planned it for after the Lost season. LOL And we thank you for that ;-D

Father Goose said...

No problem on the cop-out Mike V. Although I was initially interested in how others may have felt in regards to seasons past, perhaps it'd be best discussed at the end of Season 6.

(By the way Mike, congrats to you and the newly betrothed Mrs. V. on your recent nuptials. May God grant you years of peace, serenity, sanity, prosperity and love to you both and those around you.)

Back to Lost.....do you know for a fact how long in advance the producers have known how Lost will end? For instance, have they had the finale planned since season one or how did that work?

Also, do you know if the actors playing Jacob and the fake Locke were always planned like this, and if so, were these two gentlemen required to watch the previous four+ seasons in order to add believibility to their roles.

Just curious....

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