Wednesday, April 21, 2010

LOST: Season 6 Episode 13 - The Last Recruit

Hello LOSTIES!!!  Well that was one crazy episode wasn't it?!  There was so much movement on the Island and Sideways it was almost tough to keep track of it all.  I think we spent time with just about every character (except the Island squad of Ben, Richard and Miles) everyone is in a different location than they were an episode ago.  AND Finally, we get a HUGE answer that we have been wondering about since season 1 episode 5 and a HUGE reunion that we have been waiting for since season 4!  For that alone, this episode gets a major WOW rating from me.  Hurley comedy and Sawyer nicknames get the next WOW!   And just me being on eggshells the whole episode waiting for something awful to happen....WOW!!   We have 2 weeks to ponder where things are going as we head for a quick break next week.  So allow me to get the ball rolling here!

The Last Recruit - Was there any doubt who this was referring to?  Maybe, and I'm sure people will try to argue this but it was most certainly Jack Shephard.  (Executive Producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse who confirmed it on their podcast this past week).  All of our LOSTIES were back in one place again  at least for a few minutes.  We finally got the scenes we have been waiting to see for a long time.  Jack and Flocke, Jack and Claire.  Eventually, the conflict with Widmore's crew escalates sending the Flocke and the LOSTIES into action.   In Sideways Land, there is no centric character as we revisit each of our SIDEWAYS stories as they start to merge into one another!  Let's dive in and see where the story takes us!

Flash Sideways
When we last left our SLOSTIES (new word, FUN!) things were starting to set into motion.  Sayid shot some people, freed Jin, Jin killed some people, and pregnant Sun got shot.  Jack overcame his daddy issues to bond with his son David.  Kate was running from the law and ran right into the hands of Officer James Ford.  Claire was supposedly contemplating on keeping her unborn child Aaron.  Oh right, and Desmond ran over Locke with his car.   Granted, Desmond got Libby and Hurley together to jog some memories too but we're not focusing any time there this week.   We continue the rest of these stories now. 

Heading to the Hospital
  • Ben is in the ambulance with Locke giving the paramedics as much information as he can.   It turns out that wheelchair may have saved John's life. 

  • Ben said he would like to report the information he received on the hit and run driver, but he'll have to wait to get to the hospital to talk to authorities.  
  • The paramedic guy asked Ben if there is anyone they can contact for John. Ben didn't know.  At this point Lock blurts out "Helen Norwood.  I was gonna marry her."  To which Ben responds that he still will because he's going to be okay. 

  • Of course, for a split second, I pondered the idea that maybe when Locke got hit he switched places and the ISLAND John Locke (not Flocke...actually John Locke) took his place.  Because as we know, John Locke was planning to propose to Helen.  He "WAS" going to marry her.  But Daddy Cooper ruined his plan yet again.  Just a thought I had going around.  We don't really hear Sideways Locke say anything else this episode, but I thought I'd throw it out there.   
  • Well, he also says his name is John because Ben keeps calling him Mr. Locke.  
  • When the ambulance shows up at the hospital, the camera pans to another vehicle carrying one Sun Paik who was also being brought in on a stretcher. 

  • Oh right, except Sun sees Locke and starts panicking.  She says to Jin, "OH NO, IT'S HIM!!!  NO NO NO!!!" 

  • Okay, now what on earth does that mean?  Sun and Locke are both in life threatening situations, so are they crossing over with their Island selves?  And could it be true that maybe this sideways locke IS the Man in Black?  Many of us have speculated it at one time or another.  Maybe Sun's blow to the belly is making her see John for what he actually is.  Or, MAYBE she's remembering something from the Island.  Remembering FLOCKE.  Remembering something we have yet to see.  I dunno, it's all pretty vague, but seems very significant.   
  • As many of us have been saying, it is no coincidence that our Sideways Losties are meeting up at the hospital and various other locales.  With so few hours left, I would think they'll start becoming more and more aware.  I actually thought we would see more of it this episode, but alas, they're making us wait a little longer! 
Meanwhile, at the Police Station
  • Sawyer is getting the ultimate satisfaction of grilling Miss Kate Austen.   He reads her file - wanted for arson, assault on a federal officer and murder in the 1st degree. 

  • Sawyer doesn't really buy it that she's a murderer.  Again, Kate claims that she is innocent as she did to Claire.  Of course Sawyer doesn't really plan on doing anything about it, saying she can talk to the feds.
  • What he really wanted to do was bring up how they were both on Oceanic 815 together and how they were on the same elevator.  And he called it FATE.  And of course, just when you're about to think he's gone all LOCKE on us, we totally know he's trying to flirt with Kate.  Ahh good times! 
  • Anyway, just like Kate called out Sawyer on the Island in season 1 on him writing his letter to "Mr. Sawyer" she calls him out again in sideways land.  She figured out that he didn't want anyone to know that he was in Australia which is why he didn't arrest her there.  (I think there were questions about why Sawyer didn't arrest Kate on the blog, and I think this was one of the thoughts we threw out there as a possible reason.  Well, now we know it is why!)   Anyway they're firing shot for shot back and forth and Sawyer is really digging this girl.  
  • Miles interrupts the fun by bringing up a Multiple Homicide at a restaurant including Keamy and 3 people on his payroll.  NOTE: This is confirmation that ol' Keamy did die at the scene.  You never know with him and Mikhail if they're just going to pop back up again! 

  • Miles mentions a Korean woman (Sun) being there and her boyfriend (Jin) witnessing it all but not speaking English.  They got a shot of Sayid leaving the place and figure that's their guy.   Gotta love Miles calling hin a jabroni!  Sawyer acknowledges him as "THE BAD GUY". 

 At the Nadia Household
  • Sayid returns back to the house and tells Nadia that they will be taken care of now.  But he has to flee.  Nadia asks what he did.  He doesn't say but when the police show up she may have a bit of an idea.   Miles shows up at the door and shows his badge.  Sayid tries to slip out the back. 

  • You gotta love that Sawyer caught Sayid by tripping him with a fire hose!  Ahhh good times.  Anyway, they arrest him and that's all we see for now.  




  • So now we have Kate, Sayid, Sawyer and Miles at the police station.  Possibly a visit from Ana Lucia before the show is over.   And of course we have Locke, Sun, Jin and eventually Jack at the Hospital.  Everyone is meeting up!   Of course, there was one hanging thread that I certainly forgot about.
Claire
  • It looks like Claire was still looking into giving up her baby for adoption as she had an appointment with an agency.  Even though Kate had told Claire that she should keep the child, Claire must not be convinced yet.  
  • And of course, who just happens to show up to nudge her in the right direction?  DESMOND!  He is persistent, he is creepy, and he follows her into the elevator.  He said that Claire should have a lawyer present with her when she is signing papers and everything for the adoption.   Naturally, we must report that they took the elevator to floor 15.  Do I even need to tell you why that number is significant?  I'll give you a hint, what number is missing? 4 - 8 - 16 - 23 - 42.   YEP!
  • Somehow, Claire is easily convinced by these folks that she just met.  She gets in a car with Kate who just had a gun to her head merely a couple hours before.   Now she's going with Desmond literally across the hall to get all LAWYERED UP.  Granted, Desmond wasn't going to give up until he got his way.  

  • Anyway, guess who this crazy lawyer is that Desmond was recommending who "owed him a favor"?  It's Ilana!!  And not just any Ilana, but a non-accent Ilana.  She's American!  And she seems to be acquainted with Desmond.  What??  Not even sure if it's worth asking questions at this point in the show.  She is just there, she lives in America and is American and she's a lawyer.  Okay, I'll buy it!   Maybe we'll get more information, maybe we won't.

  • By the way we find out Ilana's last name is Verdansky.  No way of knowing if that was her name in the Island timeline as well.  

  • But the crazy thing is, Ilana recognizes the name Claire Littleton immediately upon hearing it and they have been looking for her.  How I totally forgot about Christian's will is beyond me, but it looks like Desmond did some more digging and found out that Claire and Jack are related.  Did he happen to know the reading of the will would be this day?  And why on earth wouldn't Jack's mother be there for that? 
Jack

  • Jack and his son David show up to the same building that Claire is in.  COINCIDENCE?  On this show?  Of course not.  He's on the phone with his ex-wife/David's mother.  We do not find out again who the mother is, but I'm still banking on Sarah.  

  • Anyway Jack was telling her on the phone that he could probably get David home by like 5pm.  At this, David was shaking his head "no".  Awwww, he wants to spend time with Dad!  Jack then extends their day a couple hours so they can plan on going to dinner.  
  • So as I mentioned, Jack and David were going up for the reading of the will.  Jack was telling David how it's okay to be sad with the whole process.  David told Jack that he was said for HIM.  Awwww again! 
  • So they get upstairs and Ilana introduces herself and then announces the surprise.  They found Claire Littleton!   Then she asks if they believe in Fate.  That's the 2nd time we heard that line tonight.  
  • After the pleasantries were out of the way Jack asks Claire how she knew Christian.  She said that he was her father too.  Jack didn't really know how to process the information and he just started pacing.  Fortunately for him, the phone rang and it was FATE intervening again.  They needed him for an emergency surgery.   Jack tells Claire and crew that they're going to need to reschedule.

  • So, still no memories or connections being made to the Island life.  They're really making us wait on this.  I know I know...we need more near death experiences or LOVE connections!   But at least they're all meeting each other.  This certainly is going to get interesting. 
Back at the Hospital
  • Sun wakes up and Jin is there sleeping. She wakes him up.   Jin catches Sun up on everything.  She's fine and the baby is fine.  It's all over and everything is going to be okay.   Sweet moment, but they get a sweeter moment later! 
  • So anyway, Jack is back at the hospital walking by Jin and Sun's room and has a chat with David who came with him.   More father/son bonding.  "You're grandfather kept a lot of things to himself."  David - "is that where you get it from?"   And then David finishes operation Kiss-Up by wishing his father good luck in the surgery.   WE GET IT!  Jack and David are getting along!   Who am I kidding?  It's still sweet.  Jack's life is all put together and stuff.  Little does he know the whirlwind that he's about to go through.  
  • As he's getting prepped for surgery, Jack receives the information on his patient.  The patient has a pre-existing spinal condition and the dural sac is obliterated (ahh memories of seasons 1, 3 and 5 with the infamous story of Jack ripping the dural sack)
  • He takes a look at the scans and knows exactly what he needs to do. "I got this!" 
  • So Jack gets ready to cut and then happens to look down in a mirror (yes, another mirror!) and sees John Locke is the patient.   Jack seems to recognize him and gets thrown for a loop.  "I think I know this guy."  

And that's it for sideways.  So yeah, every story moved forward but we got absolutely NO resolution.  Does that suggest we'll be revisiting them all again in 2 weeks?  Eh, who knows with this show?  But what we do know is that Jack has run into several people from flight 815 now.  He thought it was bizarre to find Desmond and Charlie at the hospital with him.  Now he's working on John Locke.   I'm sure he will find out that Claire was on that flight too.   Perhaps he will start putting it all together?  And of course, what will happen if he comes into contact with Kate?   Time will tell.   But needless to say, things are definitely going SOMEWHERE in SIDEWAYS!   And of course, they are on the Island too.  So that's up next! 

The Island

Jack and Flocke Finally Meet
We aways love our Jack and Locke scenes, right?  Well the one that kicked off this episode was no different, except that it was totally different!   Because while it was still Matthew Fox talking to Terry O'Quinn, this time it was Jack taking on the Smoke Monster.  And they had plenty of interesting things to discuss!

  • Flocke didn't waste any time when Hurley brought the crew to the camp.  He eyed down Jack and then started walking motioning Jack to come with.  "I was hoping you'd come.  I think we have some catching up to do."   Flocke loves having his one on one conversations.  
  • I love how Jack checks with Hurley to see if it's okay with him talking to Flocke alone.  "It's all you dude. "  

  • Jack and Flocke go into the jungle and find a place to sit on and the discussion begins.  

  • Jack discusses how he looks just like Locke.  Flocke asks if it bothers him.  Jack is more concerned with knowing what this thing is.  Flocke insists that Jack DOES know who he is.  
  • Jack's question #1 "Why John Locke" - And then Flocke starts his tirade again making Locke sound like the most pathetic person ever to exist.  "Because he was stupid enough to believe he had been brought here for a reason. Because he pursued that belief until it got him killed.  And because you were kind enough to bring him back here in a wooden box." 
  • So Jack confirms with Locke that he had to be dead before he could look like him.  Okay so that's all well and good.  We know Smokey takes the form of dead people.  But what it doesn't explain is Isabella (Richard's wife).   Her body wasn't there and Flocke took that form.   Yes, she certainly was dead and he could have known that by scanning Richard.  But couldn't smokey have scanned someone with memories of dead Locke and taken his form?   I guess with Jack being in 1977 and him already appearing to Ben prior to his Smokey scan, maybe it wouldn't have been possible any other way.   But does this make anyone question the intentions of Eloise Hawking?  I know we have discussed that she may have been working with the Man in Black, and in a couple bullets we'll probably need to emphasize a little more how this certainly could be the case. 
  • Jack asks Flocke who else he has taken the form of.  Flocke asks what Jack is really trying to ask. Jack talked about seeing the ghost of his dead father when they first crashed on the Island (And I am thinking "OMG, finally, the answer is coming!  Flocke is going to say it wasn't him, he's gonna do it!")   NOPE, ol' Smokey totally admits that he portrayed Christian Shephard on the Island and in that case he says that he was trying to help Jack find water.  
  • WOW, Well that seems to answer so many of our open questions.  We had been assuming that Christian had appeared as both a Ghost AND as Smokey on the Island.  Now we find out it seemingly was Smokey the whole time.  So then it would assume that it definitely WAS Smokey in the cabin with Locke and Claire.  And it WAS Smokey in the ancient past when Locke was at the donkey wheel.  He had been pushing Locke towards his dream of having purpose and his final act was telling him to find Eloise Hawking.  A woman that would convince Ben and Jack that Locke's body needs to be brought back to the Island.  Now, maybe she was simply trying to help them and Flocke knew she would.   She knew that they needed to recreate the events of the original flight to get back to the Island.  And Jack still needed something of his father's since his body was on the original flight.  I dunno.  But it still makes me think. 
  • Here's the kicker though:  We still have the whole season 4 "off island" scene in "Something Nice Back Home" where Jack is visited by the Ghost of his father at the hospital.  Yes, the smoke alarm goes off so I always thought this was smokey related.  That is, until this year when it seems Smokey is TRAPPED on that Island.   Oh yeah, and how about Christian appearing on the Freighter to tell Michael that he can die now?  That surely wasn't Smokey, right?   How did he get there?    And why on earth/how did Christian change his clothes on the Island?    I'm still convinced there is a Ghost of Christian SOMEWHERE and I totally think Jack and Christian need to have their final scene.   Oh yeah, and where on earth is the body of Christian in sideways land!? 
  • Anyway back to this episode.  Notice Jack mentioned "on the 3rd day" he chased his father.  Before anyone else brings up the religious ties to me, I may as well!  Whew, there have been a lot of them this season! 
  • I wonder if there is any significance to the Man in Black/Smokey leading Jack to the cave where the Adam and Eve skeletons are.  Several of us had speculated that maybe one of these bodies could be that of the Man in Black prior to him turning into what he is now.  "I used to be a man just like you" he said to Sawyer.   He also told Sawyer how he had experienced LOSS before, and I thought that could have something to do with the Eve skeleton.   And that it might all tie back to some Jacob conflict.   Hey, it's still a thought.  Rose and Bernard are still valid options until we see them pop up again! 
  • Anyway, Flocke tells Jack that all he has been ever interested in doing is help Jack LEAVE the Island.  But because Jacob chose him he was trapped on this Island before he even got here.  Now, Jacob is dead and they don't have to be trapped here.  They can get on a plane anytime they want to.   Jack questions Flocke asking why he hasn't left yet.  "Because it has to be all of us."   I gotta say, that man does make a compelling case.  But he also told Jacob he intended to kill all of Jacob's potential successors.  Oh boy. 
  • Jack starts getting all sentimental suggesting that John Locke was the only person that ever believed in this place.  He did everything he could from keeping them from leaving the island.  Flocke says that John Locke wasn't a believer, he was a sucker. 
  • Okay, so they're laying it on real thick now right?   Yeah, we have all come to accept that John Locke was a major pawn in the Man in Black's loophole in attempting to kill Jacob and leave the Island.  But HAVE WE REALLY accepted that Locke is this huge SUCKER?  That everything he ever tried to do led to THIS?  That he was just a pathetic fool who fell for one large manipulative trick?  Do we really believe that this is how the legacy of John Locke, a beloved LOST Character, will be remembered?   I'm starting to have my doubts, ESPECIALLY with Flocke laying on that last comment "He was a sucker."   Maybe the Island still has a plan for John Locke.  And while I yearn for a scene between Jack and Christian, I think I'm still hoping for a big scene between Jack and John Locke.  The John Locke that has experienced everything not the sideways Locke.  Of course, maybe that conversation WILL happen in the Sideways world.   Maybe it will never happen and it is wishful thinking.   But, I just down think Locke is going to go down and out without some purpose! 

Jack and Claire Reunion
As Jack and Flocke were making their way back to the camp, they find out creepy Claire had been following them.  This was another scene we had been waiting for ever since we confirmed that Jack and Claire were related.  Whew, that was way back in season 3.  But it took until the end of season 4 for Jack, in a Flash Forward, to discover that Claire was his sister.  And we never really knew if Claire knew that Jack was her brother.  And now it has taken all the way until season 6 before these 2 were in one place again.  Flocke asks why they she has been following them.   Claire says "because he's my brother."  (there you go, she knows.  I guess Flocke told her)   Then Flocke leaves them so they can chat. 

  • Jack tries to start off by apologizing for abandoning her there.  But she asks if Smokey told him that he was pretending to be their father.  Jack acknowledges.  
  • Claire says she pretty much gave up hoping that he'd actually come back.  But now that he's here, she was glad to see him.   She never had much in the way of family and was happy he was coming with them. 

  • Jack said he hadn't decided he was going with them.  Claire insists that he actually did by letting Flocke talk to him.  (oh boy, here we go again).   Whether he likes it or not, he's "with him now."  That won't be the last time we'll hear that phrase in this episode.  So, it will make us speculate of Jack really IS with Flocke.  But, by the end of the episode I was getting another impression of Jack than him being seduced by "the dark side."  (If we can call Flocke's side the dark side)
  • So, not exactly how we had envisioned this reunion scene going down years ago, but it certainly is interesting.  
The War is ON!
So day breaks and things are about to escalate to the next level.  Before this happens, Sawyer is slyly working his way through the newcomers letting them know the plan to ditch Flocke.   

  • Sawyer goes right to Hurley and tells him the plan to take the sub.  He explains who is eligible to come and we see Kate telling Sun the plan as well.   Jack, Frank, Sun, Sawyer, Kate and Hugo.  That's it.  



  • Hurley asks about Sayid.  Sawyer said that Sayid isn't invited because he has gone over to the dark side.  I love how Hurley challenges Sawyer to a battle of Star Wars knowledge.  "yeah but you can always bring people back from the dark side.  I mean, Anakin?!"   Loved Sawyer's "WHO THE HELL IS ANAKIN?!"  Clearly not a prequel watcher.  Of course, Anakin's name was mentioned in Return of the Jedi too.  But Hurley already mentioned that "the Ewoks sucked dude"    But the plain and simple fact was that (spoiler alert, but if you haven't seen the Star Wars saga now, shame on you!) Luke was able to bring his father back from the dark side after their final battle and when the emperor was about to deal his final blow to Mr. Skywalker.  I think we all have been hoping that they might be able to do something similar with Sayid.  But, I just don't know.  That dude DIED and was dead for 2 hours.  Didn't someone tell us on this show that Dead is Dead before?  Haven't the producers always tell us that?   I'm still so confused by Sayid's status! 
  • Anyway, Sawyer tells Hurley to keep his mouth shut and then Claire rolls up.   I think my favorite line of the night was when Hurley told Claire how great she looked.   GOOD TIMES!!   I believe my exact words were "I am so glad that dude is still alive!"  He really does lighten the dark mood on the show that is always there.  I still have hopes that if anyone can survive to the very end, it will be Hurley! 
  • Jack and Flocke return to camp.  Flocke gives his "It's so nice to have everyone back together again" with his crazy smile.  So true, if it was actually John Locke and not Smokey saying it!  


  • Kate and Jack have their small moment sitting on a log prior to things heating up.  Kate discusses how Sayid is different now.  Jack says "I guess we're all different now."  Well, that was exciting! 

  • Jack catches Kate up on his discussion with Flocke.  Kate asks if he believes him and Jack just wasn't sure yet.   Neither are we Jack, neither are we. 
  • And then, Tina Fey/Sarah Palin/Liz Lemon/Zoe Whoever rolls into town with a walkie talkie. Ooh it's about to get interesting!   Sawyer, as an aside, informs Hurley that that is Widmore's #2.  Did anyone else get a flashback to the first Austin Powers movie? (WHO---DOES---NUMBER 2---- WORK FOR!?!?!?!  Btw, I heard they're making a 4th.  Not sure if I'm excited or dreading it!) 

  • So Zoe tells Flocke that he took something from them and they want it back.  Naturally, she never comes out and says Desmond so it doesn't make the LOSTIES concerned and try to go rescue him.  Convenient storytelling I guess!   Anyway, Flocke denies knowing what she is talking about. 
  • So then Zoe needs to demonstrate what the Widmore cronies are capable of.  They have a fix on Zoe's position and drop some kind of bomb very close by to Camp Flocke!   Where does Widmore get such wonderful toys!?! 
  • Zoe tells Flocke he has until nightfall to return what he took or next time they won't miss.  So does Widmore know something we don't?  Will bombing Flocke kill him?  OR, does Widmore possibly know that Flocke needs these candidates alive to get off of the Island.  Which means Widmore plans to kill them?  I don't think that's it because even the Man in Black said he planned to kill the candidates! Oh well, like I said last week, Explosions are fun! 
  • Zoey gives Flocke the walkie and tells him to call her when they're ready to make the exchange.  After she leaves, we find out what Flocke's stick's purpose became!  Smash that walkie Smokey! 


  • It's time to get our WAR on folks!  Flocke starts rallying the troops.  He definitely is lying to them and Sayid even looks at him starting to speculate that he's lying.  Flocke goes on about how this is happening sooner than expected and that they're claiming that they have stolen something of theirs.   They have forced their hand into confrontation.   So they're going to go to the other Island now and get on that plane.  
  • Flocke has a sidebar with Sawyer.  He has a "fancy" map drawn detailing where Sawyer can pick up a sailboat not far from there and he wants Flocke to pick them up at this docked.   And all of us start wondering - woa, we actually ARE going to see Desmond's sailboat again!?  It is really nice how this show is bringing back a lot of stuff from prior seasons into the fold for the final stretch.  

  • Sawyer wonders why they're all not going together and Flocke says that would slow things down.  Sawyer is able to recruit Kate to go with him.  
  • Flocke takes Sayid aside and while that is happening, Sawyer takes the opportunity to talk to Jack.
  
  • Sawyer says that he has a deal with Widmore and they're not meeting up with Flocke.  He says first chance that Jack gets to double back and take Hurley, Frank and Sun with him.  He says Sayid is a Zombie and Claire is nuts and they're not invited.  She gave up her ticket when she tried to kill Kate.  Jack asks how he's supposed to get them away from Flocke, Sawyer tells him to figure it out.  Loved when Kate asked what they talked about and Sawyer just said "Guy Talk."  Ahhh good times.   Sawyer and Kate head out. 
Sayid and Desmond

  • So Flocke gives Sayid marching orders to go kill Desmond. WHAAAT!?  Sayid actually doesn't appear as monstrous as he has and gives a questioning look towards Flocke.  Flocke tries to reel him back in by asking if Sayid still wants what he asked him for.  (He wants "the woman he loved" it IS awfully suspicious that once again they didn't bring up HER name, almost that it was written to possibly apply to Shannon.  Of course it goes right into a flash sideways with Sayid talking to Nadia at one point, so I dunno)  Anyway, Sayid says YES that he still does want what he asked for.  "Then go do what I said."  WOA

  • Next we see Sayid has made it to the well.   He looks down with his gun pointed.  Desmond still acting "all knowing" about what is going on asks Sayid what "Locke" promised him.  He said he has a right to know if he's going to be shot in cold blood.  Sayid says that he was promised the woman he loves which he had lost.  

  • Desmond asks where she is now.  Sayid says that she is dead.  Desmond asks how he could get her back and Sayid says because Flocke brought HIM back from the dead, so he knows that he can do it.  
  • Desmond asks what he would tell her when she asks how Sayid brought her back.  Oh I dunno, does it matter at this point?  Sayid has already killed many people in the name of getting her back. And he killed many people for Ben after Nadia was killed.  But this does seem to get to Sayid.  


  • And that's all we see.  We never see if Sayid "took care of Desmond" or not.  We do find out what  he tells Flocke though.  Sayid seemed to be taking longer than normal and Flocke went to check on him.   He said he did what Flocke asked.  He said he just shot an unarmed man and he needed a moment.   Flocke isn't convinced but Sayid says that he most certainly killed Desmond and that he should go and check if he likes.  Oldest bluff in the book, right?  And Flocke fell for it?  REALLY!?   But he definitely just disregards it and goes for the boat with Sayid (who lingers back temporarily).  Hmm, was Desmond able to "bring Sayid back" from the dark side?   I guess time will tell. 






Sawyer and the Sailboat
Sawyer and Kate arrive at the sailboat, and it most certainly is The Elizabeth (Libby's boat that she gave to Desmond for the solo race around the world).   Looks like the boat is a little further out than to their liking.   And Sawyer is ready to swim out there.  Kate has her doubts that this whole thing is a good idea.


  • Sawyer hadn't told Kate yet that they weren't going back to get Locke.  He then tells her the plan that he told Jack.  Frank, Sun, Hurley and Jack were meeting up with them.  Of course he couldn't let it go without getting in a nickname for Frank.  Less of a nickname and more of a comparison "That pilot who looks like he stepped off the set of a Burt Reynolds movie."   FANTASTIC!  Don't worry, nicknames are coming! 
  • Kate is concerned that Sawyer didn't say Claire.  Sawyer refused to bring her along.  The Claire that Kate came back for is gone.  Kate said that she promised she would get her back.  "That's before she started drinking Locke's Kool-aid."  Another classic line.  Sawyer thinks it's a bad idea to have that dangerous girl around Aaron.   I guess that was enough to sell her for now.  They swim out to the sailboat and literally like 5 minutes or less of showtime later, the boat is parked and waiting for Jack and crew.  (I checked, it's literally 3 minutes later.  Things that would take a couple episodes in the past now takes 3 minutes!?  Yep, we're at the end folks.)  
Jack Takes Action
So while Sayid is working on Desmond and Sawyer and Kate were going to get the boat, Flocke was leading the people to the rendezvous point.  Jack, meanwhile is planning to assess Claire's craziness.

  • Jack asked Claire how long she's been with Locke. She says ever since they left.  She trusts him because he's the only one that didn't abandon him.   I guess that was enough of a sell to him that she was nuts!  Or he just didn't have time to process it right now. 
  • Meanwhile, Flocke holds up to talk to Sun for a second.  And she is not doing much talking these days (can't speak English, remember?).  Flocke asks Sun where Sayid is and she doesn't talk.  Flocke then asks if he's getting the silent treatment to which Sun gets frustrated and pulls out her notepad claiming that HE did this to her.  We had speculated that Smokey may have somehow taken her voice.  He denies it.  But Sun may have meant more of the fact that she hit her head when running from him.  But in either case, it doesn't matter because she'll be speaking again soon enough.
  • Anyway, Flocke gets concerned and goes to check on Sayid.   This is Jack's call to action as he rounds up the troops.  Frank, Sun and Hugo.  Not Claire.  And she most certainly notices!  Jack informs them that this is Sawyer's plan and they move on.  Claire sense that feeling of abandonment yet again. 




Rendezvous at Sailboat
Jack and crew arrive at the sailboat where Sawyer and Kate are waiting.  But someone tailed them the whole way there.  Yep, CRAZY CLAIRE!

  • Kate takes matters into her own hands and decides to try to reason with Claire.   She tells Claire that they are leaving the Island that SHE is promising to get her off of the Island and to Aaron.   It's a very emotional speech from Kate as she begins to tear up telling Claire how it's the only reason she came back to the island.  Sawyer gets all huffy and puffy but Kate says that she won't leave without her.



  • Claire lets her guard down and comes towards Kate.  Kate grabs Claire's rifle but not before Claire mentions that Flocke is going to be "angry" if he finds out they're gone.  Yep, just when we think creepy Claire is saved, there's still a hint of crazy there! 
  • And then the boat is off to Hydra Island.  Frank walks over to Sawyer and asks him what the game plan is.  And then the nickname comes.  CHESTY!!!  Gotta love it.  Thank God mopey Sawyer is gone.  He says they're going to get nice and cuddly with Widmore on Hydra Island then he's going to put a gun to someone's head and help them take the sub off of the Island.  Frank decides that he likes the plan.  And we finally know how Sawyer is going to drive the sub!  He isn't! 



  • Sawyer sees Jack contemplating things at the front of the boat and asks Kate to take the wheel.  She tells him to be nice.  Yeah, that didn't work out too well! 


  • Sawyer makes a comment about Jack taking orders and was impressed that he actually showed up.  Jack brings up the fact that leaving the Island doesn't feel right.  We know that when Ben told Jack that he would never be leaving the Island again, Jack was pretty content with that idea.  Jack says that the last time he left, he felt like a piece of him was missing. 
  • He goes on to say that they were brought here because they're supposed to do something.   He says if that thing wants them to leave, maybe he's afraid of what happens if they stay.   Sounds pretty logical Jack!  I would hate for them to have gone to all of this trouble to get BACK to the Island if they're just going to try and leave.  Granted, some of them I can totally see leaving like Claire, Jin and Sun.  And of course, we still need to find out how the Sideways plays into things.
  • Anyway, Sawyer isn't seeing the logic in Jack's thinking.  And he "kindly" requests Jack to get off of his boat.  Yikes.  Looks like the reunion was short-lived!    

  • Sawyer says that Jack is either with them or against them.   Jack tells Sawyer this is a mistake and he knows a part of him feels that way too.  "The Island is not done with us yet."  If he is feeling doubt, Sawyer ain't showing it right now.  He is totally done with the Island.  But Jack is planting the seed for now.  I'm still all about my LIVE TOGETHER DIE ALONE ending.  They'll all be working together for whatever cause is right for them all.   
  • But for now, Jack has to say goodbye.  He takes one look at Kate, and then he apologizes one more time for getting Juliet killed.  And then, he took his "leap of faith" right into the ocean. 
  • Naturally, Kate flips out.  And she wants to go back for him.  I think she even utters the words "We have to go back!"  just like Jack did at the end of season 3.  Sawyer simply says "We're done going back."  


Hydra Island Arrival
So once again, they anchor the boat off shore and swim to the beaches of Hydra island.

  • Naturally, the Widmore crew comes out with their guns pointed and Sawyer tries to wave them off. 



  • Zoe yells out for them all to drop their weapons.  They all do.  Sawyer tells them no one else is with them and Locke is still on the main land.  Zoe orders the Pylons to be turned down.
  • And then....it happens...just when I was about to forget that these 2 haven't seen each other in 3 years and had been pining to find each other all season.  Jin comes towards the beach, and Sun sees that her husband truly is still alive.  And, boy I'm getting all teared up just trying to write about it!  Nothing says LOST more than a Sun/Jin reunion!  Season 2 had a great one and now Season 6 tries to match its greatness.  The Michael Giacchino theme music for Jin and Sun is playing in all of its glory.  And Sun finds her voice again!!  And for anyone who was gambling on what language their reunion would be in.   It's most certainly English.  awwwwwwww YAY!!  I think Hurley's face says it all.  And speaks for volumes of fans who finally got what they've been waiting for. 
  • Sun tells Jin that she never stopped looking for him.  Jin promises that they will never be apart again.  Whew, the waterworks need to stop.  I have a blog to finish! 
  • And of course, the reunion was short-lived as Zoe gets the word from Widmore and the guns are back up on the LOSTIES.  WHAAAT?  


  • Sawyer says that they had a deal.  Zoe says the deal's off.  Well, did we really think Widmore wasn't going to end up being an adversary in the end?  Even Sawyer didn't trust them.  But he thought he had gotten the best of Widmore. But before we find out what their intentions are with the LOSTIES, they are ready to try and take down Locke.  They have him in their sites and are going to start firing.  Oh boy! 

 Jack Returns to the Island

  • After a rough swim, Jack finally reaches shore.  And who is waiting there but Flocke and his Temple Cronies. Flocke asked if Sawyer took his boat, Jack confirms. 




  • And then the rockets, missles or whatever Widmore's crew fired are coming right towards Locke and Jack!  Jack yells for everyone to get down.  The first shot totally misses Locke but sends Jack flying.  Oh no!!! 


  • Jack is totally out of it and Flocke comes and grabs him and takes him into the Jungle.  

  • Flocke gets him up against a tree and checks to see if he's okay.  Jack, although awake, is unresponsive.  Flocke says not to worry, that it's going to be okay.  And alluding to what Claire said to Jack earlier, "You're With Me Now"   




BOOM LOST!!!!!!!!

WOW!!!  What on earth is going on on this show?  Did anyone think Jack was a goner?  Deep down I knew he wouldn't be, but this close to the end I certainly got nervous!  And is Jack "CLAIMED" now by Mr. Flocke?  I seriously doubt it.  And if he is, it won't be long before that changes.  Maybe Sayid is a changed man again and will get Jack back.  Maybe Desmond is loose and will get to him.  Or maybe Jack is right where he wants to be.  Behind enemy lines and he is not afraid of Flocke because he's destined to defeat him.  They could go a lot of ways with this story.  And what's going on with our Hydra crew?  Why is the deal off?   What is Widmore's plan with the LOSTIES?    And what is going on in Sideways land?  Everyone is coming together, but they do not all recognize each other, YET.  Where is it all headed?  Well, there are only 3 episodes left before the 2 hour finale.  And they all start May 4th leading to the epic showdown and finale to end all finales on Sunday May 23rd!  I cannot wait to see how it all ends! 

But for now, I am kind of relieved that I can relax and stretch my fingers before the final run of episodes.  Hitting these deadlines every Wednesday has been taking its toll.  Be sure to tune into the re-airing of Ab Aeterno next week which will no doubt be the Enhanced version.  I did say that I might look into writing another post during the hiatus checking off the questions on our 23 Mysteries Post from January.  I'm not going to guarantee it because I don't know how much time I'll have.   If I don't do one, I'll definitely do one this summer to see what answers we got and which ones we need to answer for ourselves.  So stay tuned.  Hope you enjoyed my ramblings as always and I'll definitely see you in 2 weeks! 

Ending Credits
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Special Thanks to Dark UFO for the excellent Screen Captures!   And also thanks to my iMac as I was able to create many myself.  So by default, thanks to ABC too for allowing me to post pictures on the blog! 





344 comments:

1 – 200 of 344   Newer›   Newest»
Rukshan said...

Mike easy with dishing out the WoWs! :) This was a pretty good episode for answers but it didn't make me jump like the last 2 did... Hats off again for that very detailed review... you rarely miss a point.. really good job!

Lots of the predictions are coming true eh? Guess a lot of great minds think alike. I always knew that Jack will be the key player in all this. I didn't expect him to have that reminiscent moment after the explosion, good stuff....

It was really cool how things got aligned so well, and how did Desmond know that Liana was looking for Claire? Guess Claire is meant to be with the baby, and Jack is deff meant to meet Lock.The weird thing is that Desmond seems to know who has to meet who.. interesting.. and I cant wait to see flocks face when Desmond comes back sayin "you alright brothaa?"

I'll miss all this terribly when its gone....

Anonymous said...

Line of the entire season:

Hurley: "Claire....Your hair...looks..... good."

-Jackson

Holly said...

definite best line was Sawyer's Burt Reynolds one....literally laughting out loud on that one!

Mike V. said...

Rukshan - I thought I was actually pretty reserved in my opening paragraph. Usually for episodes I REALLY love I add a few consecutive WOW's plus am overjoyed with excitement! I still loved this episode but agree it wasn't as GREAT as some of the GREAT ONES this season. But, I have already stated my intention for giving every episode a WOW for the greatest television drama to ever grace us with its presence. So, sorry if you don't like it! :-) lol Just think how I'll react to the finale!

Yeah, how could Jack NOT be a key player in the end game? He was the first character we met and rooted for! What do you mean by the reminiscent moment after the explosion? Do you think he saw the sideways jack? Hmmmm...I didn't even ponder that! It was a near death experience!

Yeah, I know i skipped over speculation on Ilana in sideways land....but there are definitely questions there. I'm not sure how Desmond knows what he knows. He may have funding from Widmore and is investigating everyone on the manifest....but he seems to have Jacob-like knowledge. What does it all mean? no clue!

I agree...i'll miss this show big time when it's over.

@ Jackson - agreed that was my favorite of the night LOL the season? Quite possibly! But there have been some good ones!

@Holly - loved that one too!

Rukshan said...

LoL Yes yes you are right ,this season does deserve a WoW! The finally may have the 1st paragraph devoted to wows :)

Jack,Sayeed and Desmond may start the revolution and join the fellow losties to save them from Widmore's evils ideas... I hope Sawyer's crew will be safe! Its impossible to say who is good and bad any more..

Bryan said...

Haven't read the recap yet but I'm so glad to get confirmation that it was really MiB running around as Christian since the beginning! Although I'm sure people will still speculate that it was really Christian's ghost at some point (maybe the off-island appearance) and Flocke was just lying to Jack.

Looking forward to the recap first thing at "work"... haha!

Mike V. said...

Yeah, I was thinking a bunch of Wow,'s or just the BIGGEST WOW FONT I can find! lol Or you know I could just totally hate the finale and boycot a recap by saying "It sucked. Thanks for reading for 5 years" lol Now THAT would be a way to make an exit! :-)

I sure would love to see Jack, Sayid and Desmond team up to rescue the LOSTIES. That would be fantastic! Of course, I still don't understand how Sayid is even still walking around right now!

Mike V. said...

You know what I also forgot to bring up in my recap? The infamous TIME TRAVELING OUTRIGGER issue.

Do we still think we'll see the other perspective of that scene? It would really suck to leave it hanging out there forever. I think we still have a shot but have no idea who it could be. I don't remember seeing any outriggers on the beach when they were last there. Maybe Tina Fey and crew take a couple to the beach and then when they're trying to make a getaway they see one of them getting away, the go after it, fire shots and then it just disappears lol Or maybe FLOCKE needs some outriggers since the sailboat is already at hydra.

We may still get that scene!

Mike V. said...

@Bryan - You're absolutely right. Some people are definitely still speculating that Flocke is lying about it! lol I mean, people are not going to accept answers when they get them! LOL That CLEARLY was an "ANSWER" scene. I still am confused by the Off-Island Christian and Freighter Cristian appearances though. So we'll see. Enjoy the recap!!

davidsalako said...

I don't know how you manage to do these synopses so quickly after the episode airs Mike V.?! I need time to digest all the information thrown at us! Great job man!

This was another very skillfully orchestrated episode. Jin and Sun together in both timelines, Jack and Claire reunions, Kate and Sawyer banter, Ilana back as an American, Hurley's "feel good" comment to Claire etc. I could go on...

Sawyer's comment about submarines being the only way to successfully leave the island without a specific bearing like bats needed was curious. Maybe the ocean water is not affected by the electromagnetic distortions of the island?

Sideways Desmond's omniscient aura is very strange indeed - is he inhabited with the spirit of Jacob? Is Sideways world AFTER the events we are witnessing on "la isla bonita"? I hope not!

Sun seemed to recognize evil MIB in Locke guise - was this just a temporary consciousness transfer?

Not sure if Jack had some sort of epiphany following his near death experience after the explosion. So far, has anyone on the island - apart from Desmond - had any "awakening" yet?

Richard said...

Mike and All,
Great post as usual.

It seems pretty clear that Jack wants to stay on the island while
Flocke(btw, it is ironic that MIB who wants very much off the island chose the body of a man who is dedicated to the island) wants off. The rest of the Losties want off. Ben may want to stay--he's with Alpert who is trying to disable the plane so that nobody leaves. Widmore, maybe he just wants to utilize the assets for power/money(although Jacob wanted him)? It's hard for me to see alliances where objectives don't match, unless overcome somehow by what many are saying the show is all about--love. Jack just left his buddies/love interest for his objective--the island/purpose.

Which makes me question Flocke and Jack not getting into opposite sides in this war. It also seems likely that Richard/Ben/Miles are going to be in oppposition to Sawyer's group. Although they seem to have a common enemy with Widmore and we all know, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

BTW, did anyone else question Zoe being on Hydra-waiting- when she was recently on/working on the main island. Also, why didn't smokey take care of Widmore's group when they were on the main island? Now he has let them regroup on Hydra. I've said it before, but Flocke is just not the same--appears less threatening/capable. Are there rules at work here, like getting Sayid to kill Dez. I don't think smokey has killed anyone since the temple??

Mike V. said...

@David, I have no idea either! lol I do rewatch on my computer as I'm typing and grab screen shots and all of that, so sometimes I catch things I miss or I speculate on the fly! It's all about getting the blog done before work these days more than it is getting my final thoughts posted! I save that for the blog comments once we're all talking. Thanks for the props!

CRAP...i totally forgot the submarine comment that Sawyer made. I totally forgot that one lol Thanks for calling it out David. So they (DHARMA/Sawyer) knew about leaving on the bearing vs. Sub. Well, Sawyer knew because Ben told Michael on the docks to do so. But yeah...maybe you're onto something with the ocean water!

All good questions with Sideways! And I thought the same thing with Sun. Who knows!?! I think the only person that had an awakening "ON ISLAND" besides Desmond was Juliet. So...yeah maybe Jack saw something!

I'll post more in a bit!

davidsalako said...

I also have the same suspicion "Richard said...", not so sure FLocke can still become the Smoke Monster. Maybe he is just fooling us and lulling us into a sense that he is not so dangerous anymore!
I don't know why I still feel that some of his revelations seem a bit "off", must be my own stubbornness!

Mike V. said...

@Richard - Thanks for the props! Yep very ironic that Flocke and Locke are opposites...even Flocke brought that up to Ben in LA X. Yeah, the rest of the LOSTIES may want off. But I think Jack might be able to convince Kate to stay. What does she really have to go back to if Claire is going to raise Aaron? That is...if Claire isn't crazy! lol I could see Alliances in that maybe Jack and crew finish what they're supposed to do and then Jack maybe helps other people leave the island while he stays behind. Or something to that effect.
I totally think Jack and Flocke are on opposite sides. Yeah Flocke says "you're with me now" but that wasn't what Jack was saying to Sawyer. But yes...there seems to be lots of different people fighting for different things....but like you said..they may all have one common enemy.

Yeah, you and others have brought up the fact that Flocke hasn't killed since the temple. I think he did take the form of Smokey afterwards though when he appeared to Ben. We just didn't see it (heard it). I think there definitely are rules to who smokey can kill based on what that kid said to him. So yeah I think Sayid is to be his weapon against the LOSTIES at this point. But Sayid may have turned. We'll see! As for Zoe going from one island to the other. I dunno....i'm still trying to get past the 3 minutes it took for all of these events on the island to happen and then they're all on the sailboat! lol

Anonymous said...

Wow, wow, wow! Thanks Mike for another great recap! I enjoyed this episode but wish there were more answers. I know we are getting to the end but it is annoying that little questions aren't being answered. I wanted to know more about MIB/Flocke. I thought when Jack and Flocke were talking we would get more answers than it was MIB in Christian's body. Like why? When he said to Jack that they needed water.. I wanted Jack to say why would you help me that way? Or something else just let down there a bit.

Oh! I think it is interesting that MIB has not taken any other form now since he has taken over Locke's body. Although there were other bodies that he could of did this previously, he did not. Maybe he needed to take one of the candidates bodies to leave? Maybe Eloise knew this and this is why she pushed to have Locke's body returned. Also, even though he seems to be invincible currently, I am thinking that Widmore and Eloise may have information that says be able to kill him he must be in human form.

Also, about the MIB/flocke not being able to cross water in his smoke form, maybe it is like Sleepy Hollow or Dracula type of thing? They were not able to cross water and by taking a human form he can cross by human means? I wonder if he has to stay in human form when off the island? Like that is one of the rules?

One other thing.. I know Jack seems to be the one candidate to take Jacob's place but maybe it is Desmond. He seems to be the one constant that always seemed to have everyone's best interest at heart. He is now taking a Jacob like character in the sideways land? Also, maybe the boy that we keep seeing is Desmond's son in the future? Maybe they are the new guardians of the island?

I don't know, I know one thing I am rambling. But I just wanted to get my thoughts out. Thank you again for the recap! I don't know what I am going to do without an episode next week?

davidsalako said...

BTW - Margo Shephard is conspicuously absent again at another important family event. She was not present at Jack's and Sarah's wedding in the original timeline and now she was not present at Christian Shephard's Will reading?

What's up with her character? Something seems a little off...

Ian said...

It's interesting that you described Desmond as being "Jacob-like" and considered the possibility that he brought Sayid back from the "dark side."

Remember when Dogen told Sayid to kill Flocke and that if he lets him speak it's already too late? Flocke got a few words in before Sayid tried to kill him, and after that it seems Sayid was on Flocke's side. Then in this episode Claire says that Jack's with Flocke because he agreed to talk to him. Perhaps Desmond's powers work the opposite way? Maybe after Sayid agreed to talk to Desmond rather than killing him right away he somehow got connected to him? Maybe Desmond is actually Jacob the same way Locke was actually MIB? I doubt that one, but you never know with this show.

Perhaps Sawyer's deal with Widmore got called off because Widmore's worried that they've all been claimed by MIB. Of course, we know they probably won't get killed, as that'd be a crappy way for those characters to meet their end.

Anonymous said...

One more thing.. I think when Richard saw his dead wife and stuff originally it was MIB reading his mind. However, I do believe that it was his wife that Hurley translated for. If you believe that your loved ones are with you even when they are dead.. they can find you anywhere you are. This was the first time that Hurley was there to let Richard know she was with him. That she has always been with him. I also think that is why Christian appeared to Michael... I think he knew his son needed help and showed himself to Michael to help Jack and Clare. I think now that I right this that it is a bit corny but I just think that this show could be that deep!

Mike V. said...

@david - I know I brought up the Margo thing in the blog, but I'm guessing it is mainly to do with Guest Actor casting and they just couldn't get her or didn't get her for the episode lol

@anonymous - thanks! You're totally welcome for the recap. I think your MIB answers are coming. But for now, they want to keep us guessing. I hear you though. It gets frustrating. We just have to deal with it! As for MIB not taking other forms, if you remember, Ilana told someone that he is STUCK that way. We deduced (and it was confirmed by the producers) that he is stuck that way since Jacob has been killed. All good questions with Smokey as Human....I've been wondering the same thing if he left the Island...does he stay human....or what? And why does Widmore keep saying things will stop existing? All good questions lol

Yep, Desmond could still be Jacob's replacement. We have no idea! All the questions we all are asking...and they're good ones! No idea what to do next week either...but I am going to TRY to get a blog up. But I'm still not promising! :-)

SandyS said...

Awesome job on the blog, Mike. First thing I read every Wednesday morning before class. This episode was a little more on the set up side. I love that setup shows gives us answers to series long questions. Remember back when we got jack tattoo, or 5 weeks in a bear cage. Just saying, I am loving this season even on the slow days. SO keep giving out the wow's I am not going to complain about anything else.

I am not sure about your policy on promos but they have gotten weird. The next one is actually pretty cool.We all know about the literary and philosophy themes in lost. One of the themes was Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. I remember that in the 2nd episode Jack references the jungle as the heart of darkness. Well it used three lines from that book to describe Flocke and had THE HORROR, THE HORROR, flash on the screen. Do you know if the writers have any control over it like a hint or has ABC "lost" their minds.

I love that Jack and Locke have totally switched places as the man of science and man of faith. It is just like when they had to put in the numbers. DO you stay and keep doing it or risk leaving. We saw what happened the last time so I say jack is doing the right thing and will become the next Jacob.

davidsalako said...

Anyone else think that David Shephard may be a goner soon from the way they were REALLY letting us know that he and Jack are really close now?

Mike V. said...

@Anonymous again - Yeah...i agree it was MIB in the black rock...and Isabella's ghost the 2nd time. I'm still confused how MIB could appear as Isabella though since her body wasn't there. And still confused by the Ghost appearance too....but maybe there will be more info on it. I don't think the LOVE stuff sounds corny...but I don't know why Christian appearing to Michael to help Jack and Claire makes sense! lol All he said to him was "you can go now!" there was no need for him to show up and say that for Jack and Claire's benefit. So that one still confuses me. We'll see!

@Ian - yep...definitely interesting with Desmond. Definitely remember when Dogen talked to Sayid about letting MIB speak to him (hence the "oh boy, here we go again!" lol) Maybe Desmond's powers work the opposite way. No idea! Do we even know if it worked? We assumed it did...but we don't know for sure! People have certainly speculated that Jacob took over Desmond after the electromagnetic shock he got...I still think it's desmond...just an enlightened Desmond! You do never know though!

Yeah...maybe the deal was off because Sawyer came WITHOUT Flocke!? He did say they'd be on 2 separate boats....but I just assumed they'd be coming together. Eh...who knows? I agree though...that would be a sucky way for them to go out...and seriously doubt that's what is going to happen.

Mike V. said...

Man..no comments for an hour (when I had time) and now you guys are going nuts! LOL I'll see what I can get to. Have some meetings this afternoon.
@Sandy - THANKS! Thanks for making me feel old with the "CLASS" comments! lol I thought this episode was FAR from slow, but totally agree it was another setup episode. Of course, if you think about it, most episodes are setups to the epic finale episodes lol Totally remember the Jack tattoos and the bear cages...I still argue season 3 was one of the best seasons when you look past those weak episodes.
I don't personally care about promos when we're in the midst of a season, but I try not to discuss them without a SPOILER WARNING or something to that effect. But, with the previews they have been showing, they haven't been too spoilerish. Granted, they did show Desmond in the well ALIVE in the promo for "THE LAST RECRUIT" so that was a BIT spoilerish last week lol I'm pretty sure the writers have not been involved with the previews. They expressed the fact that they loved last week's promo but they weren't involved. Maybe the ABC marketing department tried to top themselves. It definitely was weird.

I always side with JACK! :-) lol

@David - you could be onto something with David Shephard. I dunno! but yeah they totally went overboard on their closeness lol

Gwen said...

In regards to Margo I think it can easily be written off to her being angry about an addition to the will. It would be understandable for her to be ticked off enough by some random women being included to not go.

Mike said...

So, what do you think of this scenario? Since season 5 the losties that tried to kill smokie/Flocke were told to not speak to him or the chance has passed. Well, the only lostie to have not spoken with Flocke is Sun, because she "lost her english". In the end, could we see Sun be the one to kill Flocke since she hasn't had an actual conversation with him... which would also help with the ridiculous "lost english" storyline.
By the way, great job on the review, as always.

Jenn said...

I agree with your WOW rating for the episode, and want to extend that WOW to your recap as well.

I think that Christian showing up off-island is a big clue. I have been thinking about this for a couple of weeks, but after last night, think my theory is actually a possibility now. What if when Locke says that he wants to leave the island, it doesn't mean physically changing locations? Meaning, what if by leaving, he isn't going to a "mainland", but to a different reality, like the sideways reality? This might explain why he was able to show up off-island in the island reality (his movements within a single reality are not restricted). This could also be why he is insisting on "leaving" by plane. We've already seen the plane used to transport people between times, why not realities?

With all the answers they are giving us, still nothing on the pregancy issues. Do you think we'll ever get that answer?

Jenn said...

Regarding Sun and Flocke, Sun spoke with him all through Season 5after the 316 crash and then again right before she bumped her head.

Anonymous said...

Take a look at the picture of Kate and Sawyer staring out at the boat. Doesn't it seem to be a HELL of a lot shorter of a swim from that peninsula? You know the one TEN FEET AWAY!

Shawn said...

Just a writing/literary/cinematic point: I loved how Desmond asked Sayid what would he say to the one he loved, and in the flash sideways, when she asked him what did he do, he couldnt answer her and had to run away. Good storytelling.

davidsalako said...

I agree with you "Shawn said...", the construction and storytelling in some of these season 6 episodes is incredible.

gnni4 said...

Thanks for the recap Mike, please give us a little something next week, a thought, a theory, even just some screen caps, anything so we get a new comment board!!

Was it weird to you that it was pitch black night when FLock and Jack spoke, Clair hid in the darkness and then sunny and bright when they returned to the group? They can hike to Dharmaville or the Black Rock in 20 minutes, but it takes from night to day to get a bit away from the camp to have a privet conversation?

And no one sleeps anymore?

And what is up with the Templetons just following Flock almost mindlessly, ready to protet him in an instant -- Cindy seems to have just switched sides so easily, unquestionably.

And none of the Losties are even asking any questions of any of the Templetons, like WHAT THE HECK is going on, who are you people, how did YOU get to the island, what do YOU think is happening, how long did you live in the temple and bla bla bla. Oh, I'm sorry, I know that they are throw away charactors, but it just seems weird to me that they are such lemmings, and that our Losties are not beating some answers out of them.

I found this to be a rather weak filler episode, still loved it, but it was like rice cakes to me.

Desmond MUST still be alive, they simply could not kill him off and not even show it.

I am quite confused right now, which is just what Darlton wants me to be, to stew for a couple of weeks and then BAM BAM BAM

LOST

Anonymous said...

When Jin and Sun were reunited, did anyone else think for a second that the "pylons" set up to keep the smoke monster out may have been on. As they both were walking towards each other you got a nice glimpse of one of the "pylons." I was thinking "oh boy here we go..." Luckily for them they weren't on. But, after 3 years if that happened, sheesh!

Mike V. said...

@Gwen - Good point on Margo! I like that better than my "casting" theory lol

@Mike - Thanks for the props! I really liked that thought for a second....but Sun actually did speak to Flocke before she ran and hit her head. And I think the problem is Flocke speaking to THEM and not vice versa! I will admit though...losting ability so speak English was a little crazy...but I could easily chalk that up to Sideways/Island consciousness crossover. (I say easily like this makes ANY more sense lol)

@Jenn - THANKS!! I hope Christian showing up off island is a big clue! I think we knew it's in relation to the ghosts Hurley has been seeing...since ghost Charlie told Hurley that Jack was going to get a visitor. Yeah, I think the possibility of MIB leaving could definitely be linked to going to the Sideways realm. But i dunno...i think he's pretty much trapped on that Island...i just can't think that Christian appearing to jack off island was MIB. Even though i originally would have because the smoke alarm went off. That should be the biggest clue of all. But it just doesn't add up! lol

As for the pregnancy issues...yeah...i have no idea if we're getting that one. When the season started, I would have said yes. But now I just don't know! Good point on Sun speaking to Flocke all of season 5 too.

@Anonymous - yeah that picture does really make the boat look close to the peninsula LOL It's probably just the camera angle lol

@Shawn/David - Very good point on the storytelling and mirroring between island timeline and sideways timeline. I totally didn't catch that one.

@ginni4 - I will see what I can do about a blog next week. I'm just not promising anything! :-) lol But yeah, if we need a post to start a fresh comments section, maybe I'll do that. I'm going to guess that it was "NEAR DAWN" when Jack and Flocke had their conversation. But yeah, it was interesting. And it certainly seems like no one sleeps. But we barely have seen our LOSTIES sleep. We have on occassion, but not very often.

Totally agree on the Templetons...just bizarre. They're just keeping those folk around as Red Shirts...so we can see some mass casualties in the finale. Of course, they may actually be motivated to leave the Island. Remember when Ben had to give the OTHERS a false impression that there was hope of leaving the island but he could never let them go? (season 3) Maybe they're finally getting their chance to leave when they never had a chance before.

Definitely good points though with them and why no one is talking to them lol It's kind of like how we never cared about the other castaways either in season 1...or why we didn't care when they all were killed off in the beginning of season 5. I dunno...LOST is a great show, but it's not perfect! :-)

Rice cakes eh? lol I guess it was kinda fillerish...but stuff definitely happened...stuff that couldn't have happened in another episode when MORE stuff is going to happen...so with that...i say it's necessary! (POETIC, I know!)

davidsalako said...

I just remembered something else - unless Jack's memory is failing him or it is a continuity error or Jack was fooling MIB - it was 6 days after the oceanic flight crashed that Jack followed "Christian" and found the caves with water, the coffin and Adam and Eve. Jack gave his "if we can't live together, we're going to die alone" speech to the rest of the survivors.

Mike V. said...

@Anonymous - I actually meant to bring that up in the recap....I actually asked out loud "oh no are the pylons still on!?" LOL But I knew they weren't because we heard them turned down like Obi Wan turning off the Death Star Tractor Beam right after Zoe said "turn the pylons off!"

But yeah...that would have been hysterical if they got fried right at their reunion. Of course, many LOST fans would not have been thrilled by that after the initial humor wore off! lol

davidsalako said...

Not 3 days as he said to FLocke.

jacqui said...

not a big deal, but I think I read in an interview with the actress who plays Ilana, that her last name is Rodansky, which is what I heard in this episode.

Mike V. said...

@David - i do not doubt that you're correct about 6 vs. 3 days...but I'm not absolutely sure. I'd have to check one of those LOST timelines to see if they captured it lol I don't know what Jack would have gathered by lying to Flocke about the days. So maybe it would be a continuuity issue. I'll look up a timeline!

gnni4 said...

Flocke seems to deride Locke so much that I suspect he is afraid of him somehow. I don't believe that Locke was so useless and fooled all along, that he was such a puppet. If Flocke wanted to take a body that was killed on the island to make fun of it and exploit its weakness, that why isn't he running around as Frogurt?

Maybe Sayid was Pauloed and not really dead for those couple of hours, the temple water was just thinned down and slowed the healing. He could also have lost his innocence (ha!) as Ben did as a child, so he feels emotionless.

I keep going back to Rousseau accusing Robert of 'being changed' inside the Temple and Robert telling her that Smokey is a security system for the Temple.

These Templetons should have an idea of what is going on.

Ben told Rousseau that if she hears the whispers, to run the other way when he steals Alex from her. He certainly seemed to know what they were.

Why are the Templetons suddenly not afraid of the smokemonster?
That seems so inconsistent to me.

Mike V. said...

Jacqui - no it's not a big deal, but I went off of the picture that I included right under the bullet in the blog. check it out! FYI - I thought I heard the same thing you did as well.

Mike V. said...

@David - Lostpedia is already on top of this. On Day 3 they say "jack claims to MIB etc...." then on Day 6 it says the events actually happened lol

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline:September_2004

Mike V. said...

@Gnni - good points on Flocke vs Locke. You could be onto something! Could be right about Sayid being "Paulolies" LOL But I doubt it. Afterall, Miles confirmed him dead!

Yep Robert sure did tell Rousseau that. What it means? No idea. But those Templetons seem to have no choice but to go with Flocke at this point.

Maybe Ben DID know what the whispers are. Or maybe he knew that whispers came around whenever the OTHERS showed up....even if he didn't know why! lol (a stretch) But there is a chance that the OTHERS knew what the whispers were. Clearly Dogen had some knowledge on the balance of good vs. evil and Smokey and Jacob and all of that fun stuff.

But I'm not gonna get worked up about these Templetons lol They're not important in the long run!

davidsalako said...

Yeah, I thought that did not sound right with the "3 days"!
I also recall that Jack and Locke had almost the exact same positions when they discussed the "Christian" apparition in season 1 in that episode finding the caves and also now in the discussion Jack and FLocke had in "Last Recruit".
Was MIB using John Locke's memories?
I guess I should "let it go"! lol!

HurleyAteMe said...

good job Mike V

A couple of interesting things popped up in this episode to me, that might not mean anything but I will throw out there.

1. The Apples- Could this be symbolic of Adam and Eve- Foreshadow, maybe
2. I know they are not the same character but David Shepherd looks very similar to island boy. Hair is similar length and cut. and build
3.Jack jumped off the Boat and hit the water the same way Sawyer jumped out of the helicopter.
4. Flocke said they must all leave the island together,, that is what Eloise told the candidates they would have to do to get to the island. Is there a recreation of events occuring here to leave the island? Could the Aijira leave the island as a substitute plane to O815 and create another sideways? or put them back at LAX with the life they had before Original crash?

My final comment is I dont believe
Smokey was always Christian. I dont know how he could have left the island and gotten on the freighter to speak with Michael based on what we know about Smokey.

gnni4 said...

I know that they are all redshirts, but Cindy seems out of place. I don't understand and it bothers me. I can't figure out why they are still paying Kimberley Joseph to play the part, instead of just using the extras that are non-memorable (sorry to the extras). Why doesn't Cindy want to leave the island? Her charactor seems so insignificant, and yet she sticks around. She is an enigma. Are Zack and Emma still alive? I don't believe that they were killed in the slaughter at the temple. That Cindy is in sideways land and still has lines makes me think that there is more to her than we have been told so far. Perhaps I am grasping at straws here, but it just bugged me last night.
OK, OK, sorry. I'm beating a dead horse. (unless it's a black ghost horse)

Candice said...

What are the chances of there being a spinoff?

Deebo said...

WOW!! I for one loved the episode…Flocke was so creepy in this episode…So if Flocke was telling the truth about being Christian then how was Christian at the barracks showing them the picture of the 77’ (to Sun and Frank) Losties and on Hydra island with Caesar and Ben etc…I can’t believe Sawyer would leave Miles that his right hand man!! Great recap Mike as always!!!!

Deebo said...

WOW!! I for one loved the episode…Flocke was so creepy in this episode…So if Flocke was telling the truth about being Christian then how was Christian at the barracks showing them the picture of the 77’ (to Sun and Frank) Losties and on Hydra island with Caesar and Ben etc…I can’t believe Sawyer would leave Miles that his right hand man!! Great recap Mike as always!!!!

Mike V. said...

@Candice - I'd say none to worse than none on the chances for a spinoff! lol They are all ready to move on from LOST. but I don't think it will be the last we see of the LOST brand. Novels, Games, amusement rides (would be awesome at disney!) are all fair game! And of course...maybe its own Reboot (a la Battlestar Galactica)20 years down the road lol

@David - Yeah, I'm gonna say he wasn't using Locke's memories here and he was just telling Jack what he was doing. But maybe it's open to interpretation!

@HurleyAteMe - Thanks! 1.) Could be, could be just an apple! lol We know we're getting the Adam/Eve answer so I don't think they need to foreshadow anything! 2.) Interesting about David Shephard and Island boy....but...yeah I dunno. lol 3.) I was actually going to comment on Jack's jump into the water. I'm surprised he didn't just dive lol I guess he wanted to be all manly like Sawyer...but Sawyer was definitely higher up! Not sure why I'm defending Sawyer. Jack is the man! 4.) Flocke mentioned that they all had to come together to GET BACK to the Island...and the SAME THING has to happen to leave. So yeah, I would think it is a semi-recreation of events....but there's nothing to recreate...they never ALL left the Island before. But I see what you're saying...maybe they'll take off and then all of a sudden it's 9/22/04 again and they're landing in LAX. I dunno....seems like a cheap way out to me. We'll see!

I'm on the same page as you with Christian/Smokey...I still question the Hospital appearance and the Freighter Appearance.

@gnni4 - I don't think Cindy has ever said she doesn't want to leave the island. That's my point. I think they have been "TRAPPED" on the island just like everyone else. I think my eureeka moment of remember Ben telling Locke that people "THINK" they want to leave the Island is the key there. Maybe Jacob was making them all stay against their wishes. Cindy could still play an important role. I dunno...but I think at this point...it's the fact that we know Cindy and the Kids are still with this group of others...so if they all of a sudden weren't there...then we would question that! Yes Zach and Emma are still alive and still there...there has been someone carrying a teddy bear in this group. I have always thought there was more to Cindy....like maybe she was ALWAYS with the OTHERS or something like that. And maybe we will get more. But at this point...i just don't know. Nice on the ghost black horse lol Good luck getting that one explained too! ugh lol

Mike V. said...

Thanks Deebo! I think we still suspected that Christian at the barracks was MIB before Flocke confirmed the WHITE RABBIT appearance was him in this episode. How he got from one point to another? That I don't know. but I think Flocke didn't show up on Ajira Island until after Sun and Frank left and went to the barracks. Then Christian told them to wait there for John Locke. Maybe Frank and Sun were the ones that told MIB that Locke was dead....and so he made his way over to Ajira Island lol

MJ said...

Have only read few comments. Did MIB say he'd kill all the candidates or just all the would-be successors? There can be many candidates for successor, but only one wins the job. Are we skewing this incorrectly ? Seems like Flocke wants all the candidtates to come with him. but he'd kill the successor.

Claire states that they all abandoned her - but she disappeared in the middle of the night leaving her son behind.

'Why is the deal off?' The deal was that Sawyer would bring Flocke over and lead him into a trap - so Sawyer showing up without Flocke pretty much cancels the deal

Below is an excerp by the actor who plays Des with TV Guide interview - could be considered mildly spoilerish - but very interesting.




TVGuide.com: Eloise (Fionnula Flanagan) seems like she knows what's going on in the sideways universe and even tells Desmond that he's not ready. How is it that she's conscious of this?
Cusick: She is a law unto herself. She's working on a different timeline. She always seems to know more than everyone else. She's like the oracle. If I was a fan watching it, how she seems to know wouldn't bother me just now, but hopefully these things will be addressed. She's opposed to the idea of Desmond trying to bring everyone together. She's trying to cover everyone's eyes.

MJ said...

Mike - Sun did speak to Flocke when he first approached her at the garden I think.

MJ said...

Mike - Sun did speak to Flocke when he first approached her at the garden I think.

Mike V. said...

@MJ - That's what I said in the comments here about Sun speaking to Flocke, isn't it? It's what I meant lol (oh wait..was it the OTHER Mike that said that?)

Jacob said someone will replace me....and MIB said "then i'll kill them too!" So yeah he may just kill the CHOSEN ONE. Or need someone to kill the chosen one. I thought about that as well. Maybe you're right.

YEP...that sentence right there about claire is why we have to think MIB is SKEWING the truth himself. Because, Flocke definitely took Claire!

Don't know about that DEAL with Widmore...but there definitely is speculation in the comments lol I just don't know!

I think I read that interview with Henry Ian Cusick...very intriguing stuff. Thanks for sharing!

Ugh...gotta go to a meeting. This is when I fall way behind each week in the comments! lol Enjoy guys!

davidsalako said...

Guess we now know how Jack got that mysterious red cut/mark on his neck now - from his "LA X" looking in the mirror sequence!

Kevin said...

I haven't read all the posts so please forgive me if someone already said this but do you think it's significant that the mirror scene in this episode has Jack seeing Locke's reflection and then the bomb is dropped on Jack on the island and Flocke tells him that he's with him now.

I think Jack is CLAIMED.

Yankeescov said...

Just wanted to say that I completely agree with you Mike about the Locke situation. I really think the island isn't done with Locke yet and we will see our island version in some way or form before the end of it all. Lost wouldn't be Lost without putting an end to the Jack-Locke island saga.

Anonymous said...

When Sun told Flock "you did this to me" and he seemed to know nothing about it made me wonder - was that FLocke who chased sun or the ghost of the real Locke?

I think Widmore and Flocke are on the same side. They need to get all of the candidates together and kill them simultaneously, they have not all been in one place since Jacob was alive and maybe if all but one are killed that one is Jacob's replacement by default. So they need to be killed off at the same time for smokey to escape.

I have no idea though how Desmond fits into the above theory.

justin6case said...

Thanks for the blog Mike, I've been enjoying it for a while. First time commenter.

I think it's possible that Jack intentionally said 3 days to Flocke to see if Flocke was lying. I believe it's more likely an continuity error, but I'm not sure.

In reference to Locke just being a pawn that played into MIB's hand, what I want to know is why did Richard take such an active roll in making Locke think he NEEDED to get back to the island? Or was he being pawned as well? I mean, if we go with the theory that Ben is working for/with MIB and for some reason MIB needed Locke's body (why nobody else's body would suffice I think is important as well) then I can understand why Ben helped convince Locke to leave (to bring others back). Then of course, Ben kills Locke and convinces Jack that Locke's body needs to be brought back to the island. But Richard was working for Jacob right? Why did he help convince Locke? Now Richard and Ben are working together. I'm confused. And I'm not convinced that Ben has really had a transformation.

Richard said...

mike,

I don't know if this is true, but here is possibly a HUGE spoiler. Don't look on this link if you don't want the spoiler. It shows where a cast member is in episode 6.14 that we have been curious about, see list under Main Cast.


http://www.aceshowbiz.com/tv/episodeguide/lost_s6_e14/

Am I crazy or did I see what I thought I saw coming up?

Anonymous said...

I've been reading this blog for a while and this is my first time to comment. First I'll say that this is a great show, Mike V. does an AWESOME recap, and I will miss both when the show ends.

On another blog someone mentioned that they saw a science network program explaining time travel and it goes like this…”Imagine 2 trains speeding side by side…1 is Losties universe A and the other 1 is FSW-universe…The island is the check-in station where the trains merge (converge)…When you exit the island it’s now one single track…Everything not on Train 1 will be there when it merges with train 2 (The universes solution to a 2-timeline paradox)…As it leaves the Island this new train is the new single universe (fresh with photo shopped memories for the island losties like what happened to Desmond in season 5)…This was the importance of introducing the mental-time travel aspect…

That’s where I think LOST is heading and I think people who we see as being dead won’t be dead anymore once it turns into a single track again….”

I found this very intriguing and thought I would share my thoughts on this over here. Now, if this train scenario is the ticket (pun intended) then essentially the Losties that are "dead" on island time but alive in the FSW would come out alive after the "converge" on the island and therefore Locke would still be alive and come back to take his body back over and boot MIB. I dunno but I think there is something to MIB belittling Locke so much in this and previous episodes. I'm excited to see how it will all come together!

davidsalako said...

What happened to Christian's body in the original island timeline???

Has MIB hidden it somewhere?

I also concur with the idea that FLocke's derision of John Locke has to be over the top for a reason! So does Jack Shephard's and David Shephard's chumminess...

Mike V. said...

@David – we DO know how Jack got the cut? Do you think it’s from the explosion on the island? Lol I guess it’s possible.

@Kevin – Interesting analysis with the mirror scene. I just looked at the mirror scene as yet again something from ANOTHER LIFE coming to focus when looking in a reflection or mirror. Jack could definitely be “claimed” (whatever that means) but I just refuse to believe it right now! Lol

@Yahnkeescov – Totally agree – we need to see our Island John Locke SOMEHOW at some point. It is so heartbreaking to think that we may never see him again! Not sure exactly how it could happen (other than a ghost form or the sideways version gaining complete memories of his former life)….but I would like something to happen!

@Anonymous – I think it was just Flocke saying that he had nothing to do with her inability to talk. The whole conversation with Sun and Flocke at the garden seemed very much that it was Flocke. He left Camp Flocke…went to Sun…told Sun he had Jin…then went back and was annoyed because Jin was kidnapped. I think that not being Flocke that talked to sun would make things pretty complicated.

I guess Widmore and Flocke could be on the same side…but then I have no idea what they would have staged such a big argument outside the pylons where Flocke wanted Jin back and Widmore denied it…etc… There were no Losties around to witness that conversation. Did they just do it for fun? Lol

@Justin6case – You’re totally welcome. Thanks for reading! I guess it’s possible that Jack was trying to see if Flocke was lying. But agree it’s more likely a continuity thing but can easily be explained that Jack just doesn’t remember what day it was. Except he may remember 48 days after meeting Ana Lucia for one time…. when he hears she killed Shannon he would get emotionally distraught about it and totally remember who she was. Same with Desmond! And that was YEARS later! But anyway…he may forget the exact day after the crash he saw the ghost of his father LOL (definitely lots of sarcasm being thrown around in there)

As for Richard…do you not remember MIB telling Richard to say everything he said to Locke? It was in Season 5’s FOLLOW THE LEADER episode. Since “Locke” was the leader of the others, Richard had to do what he said. At the time, he had no idea it was MIB…he thought it was John Locke sending Richard to talk to PAST John Locke.

@Richard – definitely don’t want to know! So I’m not looking at it lol But my going in theory would be…never assume you’re crazy!

@Anonymous 3:31pm – Thanks for finally writing in and for the props on the blog. I’m glad you’ve enjoyed it and I totally will miss it when it ends too. But, the show may be leaving, I’ll still be here! Not sure how often I’ll post, but I’ll always respond to comments lol

Very interesting idea with the 2 trains! And almost easy to understand! LOL I could see something like that happening. Interesting about Locke coming back to take his body back over. I would hate a Locke vs. Flocke battle though…maybe if Flocke couldn’t take the form of Locke anymore because he would be alive…so he’d be Titus Welliver again lol I dunno….all seems kinda bizarre but I’d be game. Maybe it explains why Sayid is alive on the Island too. What if somehow his sideways persona already merged with Island Sayid? Not sure if I buy that…but it would certainly be an explanation to how he’s walking around!

@David – Yep…we still have no idea where Christian’s body is on the island timeline. I meant for that to be one of my questions in the blog LOL Maybe MIB DID hide it somewhere to make Jack think that his father was walking around and all of that. After all , he did get mad about it!

To Anonymous and David – I have to agree that Flocke berating the reputation of the deceased John Locke is definitely over the top…and has to be for a reason. Maybe David Shephard being all chummy too lol

davidsalako said...

I also initially thought that Jack's cut was from the whole Jughead sequence - maybe it is.
Have to watch "Last Recruit" again but I could have sworn I saw the same cut from shrapnel following Widmore's attack on FLocke and co. on THE ISLAND.

justin6case said...

I do remember now Flocke telling Richard to talk to Locke. Thanks for the reminder. Did Jacob tell Richard that Locke was the new leader? If so, did Jacob not see this coming?

Now that you mention Flocke tricking Richard though, how could this happen? One could argue that Locke wouldn't have left the island to bring the others back if he hadn't been persuaded by Richard (through Flocke). The means MIB couldn't have used Locke's body and convinced Richard to persuade Locke to leave the island and bring the others back. It's a chicken and egg scenario. Shows/movies with time travel always run into problems like this. Am I missing something?

Mike V. said...

David - yeah i initially thought it was jughead as well. But it could be interesting if it's tied to the widmore attack. (that's what I was referring to by the explosion lol I guess with all of the explosions lately, I needed to be more specific!)

gnni4 said...

The water at the bottom of the well that Des is sitting in looks like the water at The Temple. What would happen if Sayid would shoot Des while in that water? He could come back 'claimed' like Sayid? He would not be harmed at all?

I don't believe Sayid shot him, could not get away with killing a loved character like Des offscreen, we all seem to agree on that. (?)

It steers towards thoughts of redemption for Sayid, prodded along by Hurleys remarks to Sawyer.

When I rewatch the episode, Flocke seems, I don't know, hesitant somehow when talking to Sayid after. Does he believe him? Is he wanting him to choose to disobey the command? Flocke asked both Jack and Sayid if "that bothers you" about something, does he care about what bothers them?

Could Flocke be offering everyone the chance to exercise their freewill, thier destiny, while Jacob was leading to their fate?

From Wikipedia:
"Fate is an outcome determined by an outside agency acting upon a person or entity; but with destiny the entity is participating in achieving an outcome that is directly related to itself. Participation happens willfully."

Mike V. said...

@Justin Case - We have no idea who told Richard that Locke was the leader. But we do know that Ben told Locke that "Richard is waiting for you"...and Ben was very upset about it. He knew that his time was over. Maybe Ben and Richard had alread had the discussion. Because Ben even thanked Richard for helping him in season 4 that one last time. If Jacob saw it coming, he may have needed it to play out as it is playing out to let his endgame work in his favor. We'll see!

Whatever happened happened is all you need to know. There are lots of Chicken/egg scenarios and they're intentionally there. same thing with the compass that Richard gives to Locke who gives it to Richard 50 years earlier...it always happened. where did the compass come from? Doesn't matter...it was always there. Darlton (the producers) talked about this very scenario and how cool they thought it was. There is an expression or theorem all about it...I can't be making this up..I'm pretty sure damon and carlton refer to Occam's Razor for situations like the compass lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor They just loved the concept that they put it in the show. It was a mystery that they intended to have no solution. I think it's kind of cool myself. It's the same thing with John Locke going back to 1954 and telling Richard that he is their leader in 50 years, and to go watch him be born and stuff. Locke set forth the very events that pretty much led him to come to the Island. Just like the LOSTIES always played a part in the INCIDENT. I love how that played into the show. you're not missing anything at all....but that is the answer....future events dictated past events in these LOSTIES's lives.

Mike V. said...

@Ginni - I think the healing water was specific to the temple so I don't know about the well water!

Yep...i think we all agree that Desmond is fine...or is whatever he was since he got shocked with Electromagnetism lol Yep...certainly does steer towards redemption to Sayid.

No idea about Flocke and caring if something bothers them. I don't think he cared if it bothered Sayid....as he dangled the promise of saving his loved one in front of him. As for Jack..he's still playing nice. I don't know about the free will (MIB) vs. Jacob (fate)...yeah it makes sense because MIB said they had to choose to go with him. But Jacob also gave Ben the choice to kill him. But he does push people towards their destiny of the island...so who knows??


Okay..I'm done commenting for now! I'll try to get to some more tonight if I can...otherwise...tomorrow! Keep up the great discussion as always folks!

SandyS said...

TO Mikes answer to Justin Case(great name by the way). That makes sense but here is what will bake your noodle later. If they did blow up the bomb in the past and blowing it up sank the island and that stops them from crashing, creating side ways land, that's a lot of ifs-Then who blows up the hatch in the new time line? The Losties going back in time is what caused it to blow up, but they are not there.

This is what i like to call the time travel death spiral!! Where you think about it to long, and the "plain" that holds your cognitive reasoning takes a nose dive :P

Florin Milea said...

What a great episode. Kudos to all who prognosticated a SW potential meeting at the police station or at the hospital. Wait! That didn't came out right...;-)

@ Mike V - Yes 'Supernatural' was for comparison and thank you for the comments. To close up that one, get a hold of this Mike, the demons leaving the possessed/claimed bodies, do so in the form of black pillar of smoke. I thought I should throw that in.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - The blow up stuff with Jack surviving is cool. This is the second time John F/Locke gives a hand to Jack and saves/makes a difference. And it did looked like Jack has that near death moment while leaning against the tree.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - Maybe Christian was telling Michael of sorts; You prevented the ship from blowing up long enough to get almost everybody in one place were they can be killed. That been done, You can go now.

I have to say that this ‘Flichard’ theory of mine make better sense more and more. Ricardo/Richard did travelled off the island in real time for lack of better words and did so many times, he even brought people to the island, see Juliet.

The night and day and travel time in the island is a mishap I agree with gnni4, but I guess we can choked up that the action is not a continuum, but they do sleep in between the scenes. We haven’t seen rain though... running the opposite in case of whishers only reinforces the idea that the wishers are a warning not to go the direction one was going.

@davidsalako - thank you, I brought that one so many times about Christian Shepard showing Jack to the caves. Also Jack fell off a sort of cliff when Locke showed up and saved him reaching his hand in the same scene. The speech was after that at the beach where everybody was on Boone and the missing only a few water bottles.

Courtney said...

@davidsalako

i knooow that sun knew locke's face and was scared of him because she got a glimpse of her island life in her near-death experience (getting shot).

sorry if this was already answered, i haven't finished the comments yet.

when i saw that part, i just immediately came to that conclusion. i wonder if locke had a similar experience after getting hit by the car? and if he did, what did he see??

Anonymous said...

Great recap and I can't believe how fast it was posted this morning. You are the beast of the blogs!!

Here's my thoughts on last night episode and postings.

1) Desmond is acting like Jacob on and off the island.
2) I think Jack will stay on the island to be the next Jacob and hang with Flock.
3) Sayid will see redemption and stay on the island. He will re-open the Temple resort & spa--it will be awesome.
4) The Others are following Flocke like they were a flock.
5) I don't care if we ever see Benard and Rose.
6) Don't need to see that missing outrigger scene (sorry Mike V).
7) I thought about the sonic fence being on in the closing scene. lol.
8) Most of the losties will leave. Kate will stay but everyone else has something to look forward to on the otherside.

That's all for now...
V

crashriprock said...

I think Desmond is the key to end some how. Because the only real way for the sideways happy ending to happen is if Desmond never goes to the Island to begin with and therefore never almost misses entering the code that originaly brought 815 down.

Whidmore must know this and that is why he needs Desmond as well as the locations of the electromagnetic pockets on the Island.

davidsalako said...

I really like the "balance of fates" note that this episode ended on.
Island: Jack is injured and at the mercy of FLocke - kind of!
Sideways: Locke is injured and at the mercy of Jack's skills - kind of!
Island: Jack has the neck cut that he viewed in the mirror in Sideways world.
Sideways: Jack looks in the mirror on the operating table and sees his reflection AND Locke's.

Yet again - Sideways Locke has not looked in a mirror. I sense a major moment coming soon!

Florin Milea said...

@davidsalako - Now that's what I call good character development and plot. Kudos for your observation.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - You are upset with Flocke deriding John Locke. You are absolutely legitimate to feel this way. I do to. Smokey should be grateful that he’s using Lockes’s appearance for his purpose.

On the other hand, John Locke - for whom I have all sympathy by the way, did screwed up when instead of listening to Helen and let go, see Jack for that matter, Locke didn’t. When Daddy-Cooper came in, Locke made the wrong turn and nothing can excuse him for it. That’s why I am not giving him the full sympathy post that moment. That’s why I like the SW Ben and Locke better. They gave up that worthless search for a higher meaning and power and found happiness for themselves. I hope the trend and redemption continues on.

Then, Locke who’s coned by other characters like Abadon I think in the hospital, not just daddy, looks for a place to belong. He found one at the farm but it was the wrong one. Locke just wanted to have friends and that’s good. But for a guy in wheelchair to go to a Walkabout in Australia, does look at least disillusional to me.

But at the end; What can one expect from a character like Smokey/MiB after all?

Florin Milea said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
joe said...

Mike, thank you for the work and also for your patience with all our comments. You must be a parent, or a teacher, or a GOD follower.

I have a question about the boat. Since Sawyer and most of his group know that Ben sent Michael and Walt off the island on a boat, then why doesn't he send someone to find Ben to see if he can do the same for them? Maybe he can't or won't, but it would be worth a try, especially when the next best alternative is to steal a sub from a group that out numbers you and is obviously armed to the teeth, and then hope in the process that you can also nab someone who actually knows how to drive the thing. Or why not sneak a few folks onto the island at night, a la Sayeed, grab the sub, and then pick up the others afterwards? I guess one factor is that they need to pick up Jin as well, but is that what Sawyer was thinking?

I would like to go back to Desmond's motive for running down Locke. We saw him gently nudge Hugo towards his island consciousness, and then he checked on him later. If he were doing the same for Locke, then is it not curious that he never checks back to see if it worked or even to see if Locke survived? Instead, he's off tracking down Claire. I guess I still think that Desmond had a malicious motive towards Locke for whatever reason.

Also, what is purpose of Widmore's artillary? If he thinks he can kill MiB with it, then why doesn't he track him down and fire away, rather than waiting for MiB to bring the fight to him. On the other hand, if he thinks he needs Desmond to beat MiB, and he thinks that MiB is holding Desmond, then why would he fire artillary at MiB and risk killing Desmond?

Florin Milea said...

@joe - Good questions here. But then, is a fictional show, and it happened that the writers didn't made sense.
Here's another good one. First time Wid got a lock on the position and fired. Flockey destroyed the hand held device. So how did he got the next one to fire on the beach?

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - So how could Smokey/MiB travel off the island to show up as Christian to Jack at the hospital. You mentioned an important clue: The Smoke Alarm.
I have advanced long ago the theory that Ricardo was held captive in that cabin. I have revised my theory as such; That cabin was originally built by Jacob and leased/rented to Ricardo.
But Ilana said that the cabin was used for a long time by someone else - implying; not Jacob. Ash was around the first cabin but not around the second one with Christian and Claire. Ash keep Smokey away, right?

So MiB traps Ricardo in the cabin. Ash somehow is poured around it, no big right now. MiB Is using Ricardo’s image to con Ben and the Dharma people or anybody of interest into extinction or slavery.
Since Mr Friendly, Richard and Ethan to say a few, can travel off the island and do so on many occasions - bringing in provisions, peoples of interest like Juliet and the Man form Tallahassee, I would think that also gives the opportunity to MiB to travel out as well while still maintaining a Smokey presence on the island. Do remember the Locke’s doodle as a child, Richard visiting him twice at least etc. Before the crash of Oceanic 815, I haven’t seen too Much to do around for Smokey compared to that many survivors brought in by Jacob with Oceanic.

The breaking of the circle of ash started to pose problems to Smokey, plus the hatch implosion , the original Des accident and the jughead after the Oceanic crash.

Before Smokey been trapped in Locke body, Smokey/MiB feels to me that could be in many places at once, could take ghostly apparitions, smokey ones and even make hallucinations. As a ghost he could appear in salty water, rain or shine, and even take ghostly apparitions from the memory of the vics.
I still think that Locke was claimed by Smokey before the original crash and possessed after the crash of the Oceanic. After all, Christian show to Jack, Jack falls over the cliff, Locke appears and saves the day, Jack finds the cave. Coincidence? I think not.
After Locke’s death, he now can be only smokey, or Flockey, but not both.

What do you think?

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - So what about the statement that Flockey appeared as Christian. I had a few doubts after Michael’s apparition to Hugo and the answer that those ghosts and whispers are souls trapped on the island, but now we’re thrown into confusion again. At least I am.

As you saw from my previous postings, I suspected that those ghosts apparitions are MiB/Smokey?Flockey’s works along with hallucinations, see Boon and Shannon and Walt by the way. Michael’s answer about it cast some doubt to me when comparing it to Flockey’s admission. Could it be possible now that even Michael’s ghost was a Smokey production to manipulate Hugo and the others?

Anonymous said...

@ Florin - You are correct in what we can expect from MIB. From his very first scene on the beach with Jacob he makes his feelings known that "man" is weak and corrupt.

Deriding John's character shouldn't minimize John's role in all of this as he was no more a pawn then any of the others on the island up to this point. What we see from Flocke more and more is his patients is being tested by the losties. He's basically snapping at Jack and deriding John to reinforce his agenda of getting off the island.

Flocke gets a little annoyed at Sun when she accuses him of stealing the English language from her, lol. His annoyance was compounded by the fact Sayid had not returned yet.

The beginning of the episode he had all of the candidates (less Jin if we are still counting him) + Desmond and a pilot for the plain flight home.

By the end of the episode he's left with Jack and Sayid (who looks like he's ready to return for another attempt for a slice of redemption). With Desmond, waiting for his queue for the grand finale.

If Widmore is truely a common enemy to Losties and MIB do we really think they will join forces to defeat him or can we expect a Battle Royal (with lots of explosions for Mike)?

I'm guessing Richard's team is the wild card that will tip the scale in favor of the Losties, maybe with the help of Desmond (whom you'd have to believe has been freed from the well).

Flocke will lose his humanity once again and be relegated to Smoke. If Jack is the one to take over for Jacob, the show will end with him closing his eyes (like I think Mike V had mentioned) only he'll be falling asleep, dreaming of how he's going to get some new red shirts to the island for the next humanities test for smokey.

Florin Milea said...

Isn't it that boat the original boat "Elisabeth" Libby sold to Des to enter the Widmore race?

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - If Flockey's right and he did appeared as Christian to Jack, could that mean that Eloise is in cahoots with MiB/Smokey?Flockey and that would make her a bad character?

Anonymous said...

@Florin - If MIB wanted to manipulate Hugo he would have posed as Libby or any one of the other losties that have died that he would trust more then Michael.

Michael was chosen for the simple fact that, he would be the least likely character's ghost anyone would follow therefore dispelling any MIB involvement and deliver us the anwser to "what are the whispers?" Plus the anwser of ghost who cannot move on, ties into his need to repent and help. But mainly he was chosen becuase his schedule was free to shoot 5 minutes of footage... lol.

I still don't buy MIB left the island ever. Locke's drawing of the smoke monster as a child certainly adds omre mystery.
Wasn't his Mom a bit nutso too, claiming he was emmaculately conceived and he was raised by someone else? Any chance he was on the island as a child? Or did he dream the smoke moster or somehow saw his fate through a dream... don't know just rambling now.
V

EJ said...

Did anyone notice in the very last split second before the episode end, Jack kind of nodded to Flocke when Flocke said, "You're with me now." It may or may not have implications....

I also really liked how Flocke kicked off the festivities with his line, "Here we go."

And poor Sayid! He's the default hitman for the rules in our post-Jacob environment -- first Dogen wants him to kill MIB, then MIB wants him to kill Desmond....

Did anyone else think it odd that Ilana called Jack MR Shepherd, not DR Shepherd, as they entered the conference room at her law firm? He answered the cell phone as DR Shepherd only moments later. Her firm is Sweetzer & Verdansky. Do we know that other surname? Hold on -- I just googled it and it's a movie that Jorge Garcia was in!!! HA!

Maybe Christian had to go to Michael on the freighter because now the island WAS done with Michael, and Christian had to come get Michael so Michael could become an island whisper ghost! Christian, Keeper of the Whispers! Who knew?!?! LOL

I thought the pylons were on, too. Thanks to Mike V's detail for catching Zoe's command (Zoe is actually from LA Law, in case you are having trouble placing her.).

And kudos for a great summary, Mike! The story was told so well in that hour, that I felt as if nothing had happened when it ended. I watched it again and digested it some more. But, to organize it all like that by morning -- You also get a *WOW*!!!

BTW, I really like the mirror in the preview. For those who don't watch previews, I'll stop here!

I also wonder if there is any connection between David Shepherd and Daniel Faraday/Widmore having musical gifts???

Florin Milea said...

@Anonymous - Good points you're making on my theory. But let's not forget that Libby did not died as a villain, she was killed as an innocent person and she wanted the best for people all throughout. She came across to me more of a Jacob person.

I feel from all the impersonations Flockey used throughout the series, that he likes to impersonate evil ones or less than perfect he can manipulate. Plus, a Michael who's seemingly repentant would carry more weight in manipulating Hugo I would think and maybe Flockey knew that just as you did.
I do like the 5 minutes one tough.

If Flockey couldn't or did not traveled off the island, how could one explain Christian in Jack's hospital and the smoke alarm going off for no apparent reason? What was Richard doing in visiting Locke as a new born baby and later in life? Somehow when reason and logic are applied, things no longer add up in my opinion. After all, you alone do somehow doubt the no Flockey off the island thing too in the very questions you raise.
And yes, his mom did looked crazy, thus mirroring MiB description of his own.Loop theory, two trains in the same station, full circle comes to mind and any one could answer our questions.

Florin Milea said...

@ all - I just remembered that in the Sw all seemed to have gotten what they wished for.
In the beginning, Rose was with terminal eye cancer. She sabotaged Bernard's efforts to make the SOS sign and then she revealed to him why did she.
On a private conversation with Locke, she dropped on him that she knows that he doesn't want to leave the island after disclosing to him that his wound would heal fast and miraculous.
So she liked the idea of not dying of cancer.
John Locke started to walk right off the bat and he would not want anything else more than to walk again.
Could it be that MiB/Smokey caused all that miracle healing to trap them on his side?

Florin Milea said...

@Anonymous - Was Locke on the island as a child - we do not know that for a fact, but in the next episodes, I would not be surprised to hear that he was.

A dream that revealed his fate? That would be a good possibility even if is just that and not induced by MiB.

Yet the clues and the mysteries and the visits do somehow go against all that. Locke wanted to be an athlete in his HS, yet he was rejected.

On the island after the crash Locke displayed a keen love for the island, they hit it right off and he walked again - a miracle as Ben said and thus fulfilling Locke's wishes. I am rambling here through the evidence.

But a couple times and the producers did said on the extras on the dvd that those were clues, the camera showing Locke on the beach after the crash, panned as much as 360 degrees in one scene, showing a Locke with a evil grin if not a evil look on his face of one who knows before hand that doom and gloom is in store for everyone else. He appeared as a 'Jacob-like' person who knows the future, but keeps it quiet from the rest - Rose been the only one who sort of blows his cover.

The writers and producers planted those clues at the time. Could it be possible that with so much to answer and so little time for deliver on, they might be rushing through it? I don't know, but I would surely like to.

Mike V. said...

Just a warning folks...I have been working on my responses. There was lots...hence I will have lots to say back! lol

Weasel said...

@Richard: if you look at the previous episodes from that link you posted, the name(s) you are talking about is/are listed on previous episodes as well (including this week's), so don't read into anything from the cast list.

Mike V. said...

Whew, that’s a lot of comments!! And here’s my attempt at responding to them all :-)

@Sandy – Nice Matrix Oracle reference btw lol I think my noodle has already been baked. I still think that there are 2 separate and distinct timelines (except that maybe in the end, there will only be one)….if Jughead did cause this…whatever happened to the ORIGINAL ISLAND LOSTIES…STILL HAPPENED….so they went back to their respective time of 2007…and the past still happened as it had happened for them. For the Sideways Losties…they seem to be living in a world where none of it EVER HAPPENED. Except we know the island did exist and that Ben and Roger were on it as part of the DHARMA Initiative. But, in the Island timeline, Ben was shot…and was with the OTHERS at the time of the Incident (we assume….Roger shot Sayid too or someone did…but he at least identified Sayid as the person that shot his boy)…. The sideways timeline shows Roger and Ben on better terms. And hey..maybe him getting shot caused these better terms.

You know what though? Let’s ponder that the 1977 DHARMA peeps and OTHERS in Sideways land did live those events. What would this mean? Ben and Roger haven’t run into anyone in sideways land 2004 that they would have met in 1977…and it would have raised alarms. So what happens if Ben or Roger sees Sayid somewhere? Ben “would not remember” because he had his innocence taken by Richard LOL. But Roger certainly would remember the guy that shot his kid. How about Pierre Chang? He gave a big tribute to Hugo Reyes in Sideways land…and he certainly would have met Hurley. Eloise Hawking would know Jack, Sayid and Kate. (and she seemingly knows a lot)…but the key thing Eloise WOULD know would be that they were performing a mission to CHANGE THE FUTURE. So maybe this would lead to her having a lot of knowledge in sideways land as well. We could keep going down this path. It might make sense. But I still say that BEN wouldn’t be as “NICE” as he seems right now in Sideways land….he hated his father and wanted to be with the OTHERS…and his healing at the temple should have changed him for good. Maybe we’ll find out Ben is a little more mischievous than he has seemed so far. But I think the whole Ben/Roger thing is key to us knowing about the Island timeline in sideways. BTW – Definitely can’t wait to see how that Island sinks! Whew…what did I just say in that whole rambling? LOL

Mike V. said...

@Florin – yikes you were at it again last night! LOL I’ll try to respond to whatever I can. Nice on the Supernatural stuff. Good times! Yeah, I agree and I’m starting to think more and more that Jack sees his Sideways life after this explosion. That definitely would move the Island plot along!

As for Christian…I know WHY he was there…the “Island” was done with Michael. He had completed the tasks he needed to complete. What I don’t understand is if it was Flocke…HOW he was there. And I wonder if we still have Christian as a Ghost. I know you did mention my “Smoke Alarm” comment for the “off island” presence too. Yeah, it seems like a major hint and back in season 4 I would have said without a doubt that it was Smokey. But now knowing he is TRAPPED on the Island….it just doesn’t make sense to me. Other commenters are looking for “loopholes” to say that maybe Flocke being trapped has less to do with the Island and more with the TIMELINE. But I just don’t know. We’ll see! I still don’t see how this clarifies your RICHARD theory lol We know that “SOME” of the OTHERS are able to come and go from the island as they please. Tom Friendly told Michael that. And Richard told Locke in 1954 that leaving the island is privileged information (information that he has). To be continued in your next comments!!

@Courtney - I think you were talking to David but I agree that Sun and Locke probably both had their “near death experiences” and saw the Island world. Even Locke’s comment “I WAS gonna marry Helen” makes me think that old Island John Locke may have surfaced in sideways. It certainly would be interesting! Just think about it…what if Island Locke is now in sideways and he comes into contact with Benjamin Linus, the man who killed him. Oooh…I’m getting goosebumps just thinking about it. Also, if the man that saves him, Jack, just happens to be the man he wrote his suicide letter to. Certainly would be nuts! Either way…it should be interesting how Sun and Locke react to whatever they saw. I could see Sideways Locke and Sideways Jack having one of their Faith vs. Science discussions again!

Mike V. said...

@V - Thanks for the huge props! Like I always say…I work on a crazy timeline Tuesday nights and Wednesday mornings…and it involves little sleep :-) I have to get it all done before going to work! I only have to do that process 3 more times though because I’m off on the Monday after the finale!! As for your numbered comments.
1) Yep, 2) Lots of people think like you…maybe Jack will be the next Jacob..maybe…but I don’t think it will end the way season 5 finale began. As Jacob even said “it only ends once”…I think we will see some finality to things. But I’ve definitely been wrong with this show in the past! 3) Definitely Sayid will open a resort on the Island. 100% agree! LOL 4) nice one 5) too bad, you will! 6) No apologies necessary but I NEED to see it!! 7) I think we all did lol 8) I agree that Kate does not have much to go home to..and if Jack stays…so should she. But I still think Jack may have to die in the end. We’ll see what they have in store for us!

@Crashinprock – You have to keep in mind that in sideways land…the Island is already sunk…and Desmond would have gone to the Island 3 years prior to the present. I totally agree with you that Desmond is key to the end, but I think we are already past him pushing that button in both timelines!

@david – Yeah…another good mirroring of the two timelines with the “balance of fates”…very well constructed show! Gotta love it! As for Sideways Locke not looking in the mirror….yeah maybe it means something. In either case, definitely a major moment is coming! LOL

@Florin – You bring up lots of good points with Locke and his history. But he finally found purpose in his life on the Island…and he was used just like he was his entire life. If this show is a show about redemption, he never found it. That’s why I feel like his story is incomplete. Yeah, Sideways Locke was more content in his life…we don’t know the differences that this character has lived through. Was he still conned out of his Kidney? Don’t know, but why is he friends with his father in this timeline? Dunno. I just think LOST fans will feel cheated if we don’t get some form of Island Locke back in the show before the end. Nobody calls John Locke a sucker!!! We’ll see!

Mike V. said...

@joe – Thanks for the high praise! It’s nice to be recognized for my efforts on keeping up with the comments. Definitely not an easy task but something that I am totally happy doing. I’m just so thankful that people like coming here, reading and sharing theories on the show. Definitely not a parent or a teacher though! Lol Do you think I’d have time to do all of this commenting myself or even write the blog if I was a teacher!? Maybe my patience on the blog will help me when I DO become a parent though!

Good points on the boat…I think that’s why they even had the question in there from Frank that they need the bearing. Yeah, it makes sense to try and get Ben and see if he knows what bearing to take. I think that bearing changes though, and maybe Ben wouldn’t have that knowledge. Plus…I don’t think ben has any interest in leaving and he might not have any interest in helping Sawyer! Plus…Sawyer may not trust Ben and I don’t think anyone has even taken the time to tell him that Ben is back on the island yet lol Lots of factors..even Jack telling Sawyer that deep down he knows that they’re destined to do something on this Island. Maybe Sawyer is looking for the hard way. And like Florin said…maybe it’s just a TV show and we need to accept it! But it totally makes sense that Sawyer would want to get Jin too.

Yep, Damon and Carlton definitely said it’s one of the 2 options (Desmond having malicious intent with John Locke being one of them…trying to “show him something” being the other). Your points make sense. We’ll see! Good question on Widmore’s artillery….i think this show just likes to blow stuff up on occasion! Lol I questioned if rockets or whatever would really affect Flocke. Maybe Widmore is trying to kill the LOSTIES because they are MIB’s ticket off of the island. I just don’t know!

Mike V. said...

@Florin – good question on getting the lock on Flocke’s position. I guess I didn’t even think about the walkie talkie being what they used to lock in on it. Maybe they can get a read on whatever matter is making up Smokey…if there is an electro-magnetic presence around him…maybe that’s the position they’re fixing off of.

Still not buying the Richard in the cabin theory! And don’t forget…HORACE GOODSPEED built the cabin! We learned that in Locke’s dream…and then Locke got the blueprints and map from Horace’s dead body.

I think at this point we know that MIB was using the cabin…at LEAST when he was Christian Shephard on the Island. He lied and told Locke that he could speak for Jacob and then told him to move the Island. We haven’t confirmed what was in there in season 3’s appearance…because there was a circle of ash around the cabin. It could have been keeping smokey out…it could have been keeping smokey in. but we know we saw smokey out and about during seasons 1-3…so we still don’t know what was in that cabin! We also know that Richard was with Ben and Locke right before they went on their expedition to the cabin. So why would Richard be trapped in the cabin hours later? I just don’t see it.

Looks like even you acknowledged Friendly and Ethan travelling off Island. I think when Richard visited Locke as a child and we saw smokey there…it was foreshadowing Locke’s eventual fate. I don’t think that has anything to do with Richard, in particular, being there. I still go back to why Smokey being trapped on the Island…and Jacob even saying that he can’t leave.

Lots of people think Locke was “CLAIMED” since the beginning. I guess it’s possible…but I think Locke found Jack because of his tracking experience. And Smokey only being Locke has nothing to do with Locke’s death….it’s JACOB’s death. Remember…he also appeared as Christian to Sun and Frank.

I don’t think the ghosts have anything to do with Flocke. They’re something different entirely. That’s why I still think we’ve seen Christian as a ghost too. But the possible times that we did see him as that ghost are now narrowed down to 2!

Mike V. said...

@1:16 am Anonymous – Thanks for the shout outs to me on Explosions and Jack closing his eyes at the end. Dreaming of redshirts is a nice touch lol Interesting theory also on LOSTIES Teaming up with MIB to get rid of the common enemy of Widmore. That would certainly be a twist! Good times!

@Florin – yes the boat was Libby’s dead husband’s boat. I think I mentioned that in the blog (that was for the anonymous commenter that can’t stand when I say that! LOL) As for Eloise being in cahoots with MIB….I brought this up in the blog too. Definitely could mean that. Florin, are you slacking on your reading? I’m reading all of your stuff! :-) lol

@V – agree…after what we learned this season..it just doesn’t seem feasible that MIB left the island. Which drives me crazy because I thought that smoke alarm was a big clue back in season 4. Alas, probably a red herring or the writers changing their mind on something lol

@EJ – Thanks for the big WOW props! It’s not easy but I do what I can! Didn’t notice Jack nodding at the end but I’ll be rewatching tomorrow when I get a chance. Sayid, the default hitman…yep he can’t get away from it! Lol Nice googling on the Jorge Garcia and movie yeah…Ilana calling Jack “Mr. Shephard” I didn’t think of it in terms of Dr. vs. Mr. but the fact that Ilana was calling him by his last name again. Just like the list she got from Jacob. Shephard, Reyes, Jarrah…etc… just like the Others always referred to them by their last names. Of course, as a lawyer, she could have just been very formal! Christian as keeper of the Whispers? Lol Good times! Yep, I’ve done my research on Sheila Kelly (aka Zoey)…but I still will call her Tina Fey until the end! Hmmm…I’ll have to watch that preview again!

Mike V. said...

@EJ (contineud) I, too, was thinking that they’d connect Daniel and David somehow…they both did play the same musical piece. I figured Daniel was going to be David’s piano teacher or something. I guess it’s not over yet but I would think that would be a minor detail to get to in the final hours.

@Florin – as for the miracles…I do not think Smokey was responsible for all of that. MAYBE Jacob was…but I still like the idea of the mysterious healing island that did it. We know that people’s cuts were healing quickly because of the island…we never saw jacob’s interaction…..when the people crashed on the island…we didn’t’ see Jacob going around and healing people….Locke wakes up and wiggles his toe. I dunno…maybe he was somehow involved (Jacob) but I still think the Island has healing properties.

Okay…I’ve spent way too much time on these responses. I probably should do some work! Lol

gnni4 said...

I agree with you Mike that the island itself was responsible for the magical healing, not Smokey or Jacob. I always liked that, that the island itself was a charactor in the show.

I was thinking back a few seasons to Goodwin telling Anna Lucia that he killed the guy (looked it up, Nathan) because he was not a good person. Do you think that plot line is still in play, the 'We are the GOOD guys' as Ben told Michael. I think that the good guys/bad guys thing kind of fizzled out and got very blurred and they moved on.

thoughts?

Mike V. said...

@ginni - I think the fact that we know that Ben never met Jacob blurs a lot of his objectives on the Island. Goodwin was on task from Ben....Ben was either receving lists from Richard from Jacob or just making up his own lists! I think Ben always thought he was doing the RIGHT THING by protecting the Island though. So yeah, it's all blurred on who was good and bad....but Ben definitely thought he was one of the good guys. Still does I would think! It's all based on perception! If you feel you're doing the right thing, who is to say you're not a good guy? EXCEPTION? KEAMY! That dude was just a bad dude lol And he sure was GOOD (pun intended) at being bad!

Anonymous said...

@Mike V - Here's a crazy theory that might explain why Sayid came back to life without anybody's help (Bear with me here this thought was triggered as a result of something you stated).

The bomb blowing up causes our losties to jump to 2007. Sayid is mortally wounded as we know and eventually dies from a gunshot wound in 1977. As we know with all things traveling to/through the island time is a component. Recall faraday's first experiments on the island and the dead freightor doctor floating to the island the day before he's killed.

Could Sayid been the benefactor of course correction ripple effects as a result of the bomb. If his plane doesn't crash, he doesn't shoot Ben and in turn doesn't get shot either. I know this is just one of many time travel paradox's created but what the hell.

On a someone related thought, here is where I think Sayid's charactrer has been/is going as a follow-up ramble :-) lol.

His body hops to 2007 and begins to heal as his jet-lagged sould is very slowly catching up with him (30 years is a long way to go). First he regains consciounous, but is very vunerable & confused at first. This makes him an easy target for MIB, to twist to the dark side. Jacob, I mean Desmond begins to turn on his lights. Thus lighting the fuse for Sayid untimate redemption, albeit it may cost him his life for the good of the Losties (ala Charlie).

Plausible and they can't all live happily ever after now can they? (even if ABC is owned by Disney)

V

crashriprock said...

Hi Mike nice site.

Desmond is the only one on the "sideways" flight 815 that was not on the original flight 815 because he was in some way responcible for the "original flight 815's " crash on the ISLAND.

So in order for him to be on the sideways flight and the island to be under water in 2004, he has to leave the 2007 Island situation and return to a point in which he was never on the island to begin with.


So since he seems to be able to see both 2004 and 2007 timelines at the same time, then he has two missions in one. First mission is in sideways land, he has to convince the ones in sideways land that the situtation they are in now is worth everything to them by showing them their "constant".

So in the 2007 situation his job is to connect those Losties(canidates) to the ones in 2004(technically in their past). Meaning he has to show them that they already have what they want as long as they dont want to leave.

Desmond is the only one in the 2007 situtation that has seen everyone in the sideways situtation no one else in the 2007 situtation has seen the sideways situtation except maybe ... now... Syiad.


I think Desmond is showing everyone in both timelines what or who their "constant" is.
What should come next is everyone in 2007 slowly getting the idea from the 2007 Desmond that indeed something has changed. Therefore everyones current desire to get off the island in 2007 is TRUMPED by their desire to have what they have always wanted, which is now in 2004 sideways land.
I think that the reason that the "canidates" all have to leave together is because all the canidates have traveled through time and even tho her reality in sidewaysland is different Sun is the only "would be " canidate that has not traveled in time.
So as the losty canidates decide that what they have in the sidewaysland is what they want more than what they will have if they leave the island in the 2007 situation. Then Desmond has to alter the timeline ratio with the help of one other canidate who can move throught time like himself.
Remember the math equation from the Dharma film that says if you change one number then the outcome changes and the world doesnt end.
Well Flocke changed that number sequence when he took over Locke who also moves through time (which is why I think he chose Locke).
That has to be the loophole.

If you think about it all the canidates that have met Jacob can move through time. So if one or more of the losties decide to stay on the 2007 island it will alter the number sequince again changing the outcome of Flocke leaving the island and hence destroying the world...then the losties in 2007 can all return to where Jacob first met them.
BOOM LOST

The moral of the story:
If you could change one moment in your life would you?
If so then that is the point in which you met Jacob as well...

Mike V. said...

@V - I guess anything is possible when you put course correction into play. But why would Sayid be spared and Juliet not? Why does everyone remember their Island pasts and not remember this crazy sideways world? As with the Freighter Doctor comparison...I think that all has to do with perception of time when entering and leaving the island...and the radio signals and communication signals...and the light not scattering right and all of that crazy stuff. Kinda like they were flying to guam in the middle of the night...but once they got into island atmosphere...it was daytime again. I think Sayid makes a comment in the CONSTANT also that they left in the middle of the day and then it was DUSK when they got there...or something like that. And even though they were only flying for 20 minutes...Jack and crew didn't hear from them until the next day or whatever. It's all crazy time bendy stuff with entering and departing the island. I would love to get an answer to it all...and I hope we do. But I'm not holding out much hope with how much time we have left. I'll give them credit for being inconsistently consistent though with all of the time trippy stuff with leaving the island and coming back!

I like the idea of the ultimate Sayid redemption being ignited by Des...Still not sure if I really want to say Desmond is Jacob...but just Jacob-like for now! lol

But no...there is absolutely no way that all of our surviving 1st season Losties will make it to the end of this show. I highly doubt that! And I would say Sayid and Jack are the top candidates to not survive....considering one is already dead! I would say Hurley is the top candidate TO survive. lol

Then again..maybe the island sinks and they all drown! lol

Mike V. said...

@crashriprock - Thanks! I think you're making a lot of assumptions with what is going on with Sideways and Island Desmond right now. I don't think he necessarily can see both timelines at all times. I think each got a glimpse of the other life...and somehow they both know exactly what to do now. But yeah...one could make an assumption that Sideways Des is connected to Island Des and knew that Flocke threw him down the well....and that is what spawned him to run over Locke in sideways.

BTW...that word "Situation" has forever been ruined for me by THE JERSEY SHORE lol

I also think we all overuse the word CONSTANT. "The Constant" dealt with someone who has become unstuck in time...and they needed to find something that was familiar to them in BOTH times. This was PENNY for Desmond. Yeah, maybe it's a similar concept for Sideways and Island timelines. I think you're onto something with DESMOND showing people stuff in both timelines. He obviously is aware of what he needs to do in both settings...and he is hard at work.

I know we're getting all of these themes of MAKING A CHOICE on the show and I think that does play into the Free Will vs. Destiny aspect of the final season. (or the entire series)....but I do not think our LOSTIES will be making a choice of which life they want to live in the end. I think one timeline wins out in the end...or both merge somehow. I do not think we're going to see any more time travel with our LOSTIES choosing to time travel back to a point in which they met Jacob. I do not think the ability to time travel lives within each LOSTIE (that would be too much like a HEROES ability)....It is interesting that only certain people traveled back in time on the island when the island moved...(i.e. not The Others) Yes, it would seem they were all candidates of Jacob's and they had a role to play in the past. And it is interesting that sun didn't travel back in time. She certainly was touched by Jacob...but maybe she isn't a candidate. I dunno... But I still think the Island or Jacob decided who to move through time or whatever...and not because each person had the ABILITY to travel through time. We know Desmond is different than the rest of them and that the "RULES" whatever they may be, do not apply to him. So I don't think we can lump anyone into the same archetype as Des.

It's all an interesting theory you bring up..and I think parts of it are dead on. And I think the fact that Jacob has been non-existent in sideways land plays a role too (i.e. maybe he never interfered in this timeline)....but I don't think I'm on the same page with how you see it all going down! lol But hey...that's what LOST theorizing is all about! Good luck with your vision coming true!

EJ said...

Hey -- Could ANA LUCIA be David Shepherd's mother??? We haven't seen her yet, and I know you all think Sarah, but I think if it WERE Sarah, it wouldn't have been held back for so long. That may be how the police station and the hospital become connected.... Conversely, we may never know who David's mother is, if it is simply irrelevant.

Mike V. said...

@EJ - Ana Lucia has been thrown around as a possibility, yeah. I guess it's possible. I don't see it besides the dark hair...and the irony that Michelle Rodriquez was definitely brought on board to be a love interest for Jack and a conflict for Kate's affections lol But once fans hated her, it was off the table!

As for it being Sarah....I would say one reason that we wouldn't have found out yet it was her was due to filming schedules since she's a regular cast member on Modern family which films in Los Angeles. HOWEVER

(SEE POTENTIALSPOILER ALERT BELOW)

**********************************










Modern Family recently filmed an episode in Hawaii when the family goes on vacation. Carlton Cuse tweeted the fact of how great it was that Julie Bowen was in Hawaii at that time. Seemed to be a hint that we hadn't seen the last of her.








***********************************

crashriprock said...

Mike
I dont think it is free will vs destiny as much as it is fate vs the "desire" to "change fate".
The smoke monster symbolicly is the desire to leave the island by starting a signal fire that could be seen from a distance by a passing ship.
All the canidates have a desire to change thier past or fate because they did not get something or maybe a dream didnt come true ...etc. Thats when they meet Jacob
This desire to change fate has blinded them from what it was that they already had or will have their CONSTANT.

The reason the smoke monster hense desire is botteld up on the island to begin with is because we do not have to have the ability to change our past.
If we did all hell would break lose.

If we could change our past we would no longer have what fate gave us "our constant" to begin with.
There is a point in every ones life that they realize something other than "their desire" is in control of their lives (hence they meet jacobs ladder). The more they fight that control or fate with their disire to be "in control of thier own fate", the less likely they are to get that which they were meant to have or be ...
their CONSTANT
Like the math equation, if you change one thing about your past then you never get your constant because it has changed as well.

as for the rest of the show
look up or google the word

" Mcguffin"
or do a youtube search on
"mcguffin Hitchcock"
and watch his explanation of what a Mcguffin is
this show has more Mcguffins than any other story in the history of story telling...lol

justin6case said...

I'm still thinking Penny may be David's mother and Daniel Widmore his musically gifted uncle. We'll see.

About Desmond and Locke, it doesn't make sense that Desmond took out Locke with his car for revenge. I believe this has been discussed already but I keep seeing this brought up. Desmond is waiting outside the school to run down Locke (who pushed him down a well), and Ben (who shot him) approaches his window. He didn't react at all. If he was out for revenge, why wouldn't he also take revenge on Ben too. Instead, we see the seemingly all knowing Desmond talk calmly to Ben, wait for the right moment, and send Locke airborne. He was causing a near death experience to jog his memory of the island timeline.

davidsalako said...

Pretty sure Juliet is Jack's ex-wife and David Shephard's mother and Detective James Ford's future love interest in Sideways world.
Jack Shephard will cross paths with Sarah and fall for her.
Kate - who cares? - lol - maybe she will reconnect with her childhood sweetheart and "partner in crime".

crashriprock said...

davidsalako

I think when Sawyer goes to the hospital to interveiw sun and jin we will see that suns obgyn is juliet and those two meet up with desmaond and ultimatly go get a cup of coffee.

or....

Julia is the FED that comes to get Kate and she recruits Sawyer into fighting the "VISTORS"
ROTFLMAO

Anonymous said...

Hopefully Kate gets the chair for her crimes. This way in sideways land she cant fuck up other peoples plans like she usually does. I cant stand her character and I hope she is erased from the show soon.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
gunnar said...

I agree not my favorite ep this year but still solid info. Now my q's

Ok so Claire states that since Jack has talked to Flocke he (jack) is with Flocke now. So if that is true who is Claire now with? By that logic wouldn’t she still ‘with’ Flocke/MIB or was she changed and is now ‘with’ Team Sawyer just based on a few sentences from Kate? Is Claire a spy for Flocke? Did Flocke know this was a risk all along and had Claire cued up to play Mata Hari for him if the group tried to go away from him?

Another thing that struck me. Flocke clearly had no fear during the missile attack on the beach. Bodies scatter and he just stands there unaffected (you can see this when Jack lands post explosion and they show a shot of Flocke unmoved. Lends to the whole idea that there are a limited number of ways (maybe only one way) to kill Flocke/MOB

Anonymous said...

@Mike V - Desmond survived becuase he was touched by Jacob. Jacob did not reach out and touch Juliette (not even by phone or a post card). I'm not saying this is what happenened but it seems to fit.

The Templetons (simpletons), Richard and Ben have all confirmed that they've seen many miracles on the island but never anybody coming back from the dead. Obvouisly this make Sayid special, even if he failed Dogen test (which wasn't fair becuase he had no time to study).

The one flaw to all of this is Patchy. Who had a least 1 near death by the sonic fence and of course the spear gun incident, which looked like it should have killed him, right before he blew himself up... Unless Sayid is the new Patchy v2.0 -LOL.

Although, I think may have picked up a clue in the latest whispers where Sayid is told to look for Sarah Conner ;-)

V

EJ said...

@ Mike: Good point about the Ana Lucia actress -- she had the DUI and stuff, too, so the parting of ways seems to have been final. But you know Hollywood ... all is forgiven if it can make somebody just one more dollar!

@ Justin: I've thought about Penny being David's mother, too, but I didn't want to go there because I like Penny & Desmond as single true loves in any reality. But, Jack IS divorced, so it could still be true!

@ David: I thought about Juliet, too. That actually mirrors island time a little, since she was with Jack (however briefly) and then lived with Sawyer in 70's time (when he was a Dharma cop).

I like Sawyer and Miles coming to the hospital to question Jin and Sun -- missed that obvious connection! Maybe they bring Sayid because he has a bloody nose from his trip over the garden hose at Nadia's house, too! LOL

crashriprock said...

I think Sayid ends up getting a lawyer who gets him out of trouble on self defense.

and his lawyer is....
drum roll please

Shannon

EJ said...

Good one, Crash!

Maybe she's at the hospital getting a new inhaler!

crashriprock said...

I also think that the last graphic on this show wont be

BOOM! LOST

but will be

BOOM! FOUND

davidsalako said...

I would like to think needy Shannon could actually make it through law school and the California Bar exam but anything could be possible in Sideways land. lol!

crashriprock said...

It just seems like if someone has died on the island then their sideways life is different ie Llana.

davidsalako said...

Not sure that I agree that their lives are that different in Sideways land if they died on THE ISLAND.
They may have some aspects of their personalities that are a bit more heightened or subdued but they basically remain the same character.
Ilana was tough, independent, purpose driven and a natural leader on THE ISLAND, albeit Russian.
Sideways Ilana is American of Russian descent seems tough, purpose driven - expensive attorney etc.
Libby seemed pretty much the same in both worlds. We still don't know why she was in the asylum in the original timeline though and why she seemed to be stalking Hurley.
Charlie seems the same in both timelines. Just seems to have a death wish now in Sideways world

crashriprock said...

well what I meant was
Daniel isnt a professor anymore
Dogan isnt in japan
Charlotte works at the museum
Minkowski is a chauffeur...
etc
so who knows what Shannon is in the sideways timeline.
In other words I think it is a mistake to assume that every one in the 2004 timeline has the same past as the 2007 timeline
and the ones who die dont even seem to have the same jobs.

davidsalako said...

True about Daniel and Dogen, although I am pretty sure Daniel Widmore has a Ph.D. in music and it will not take him long to master mathematics. Most gifted musicians tend to have a very natural aptitude for advanced math and physics. I am related to a couple!

Dogen I am sure is still a successful business man, just also more appreciative of his fatherhood role and blessings in Sideways.

davidsalako said...

Not assuming they have the same past at all.
Some things are the same and some things are different due to different experiences BUT their DNA is still the same - who they fundamentally are.

crashriprock said...

Well if musicians make good physics professors
then maybe ballet dansers make good lawyers... lol
we still dont know who Shannons mother was
and Boone said she was special to Locke. We saw her name scrathched off the list on the wall ...Rutherford
and by the way
Rutherford is the name of a famous new zealand physics professor

davidsalako said...

lol!
I never liked Shannon - so my bias is showing through!
Ballet dancers could make awesome attorneys!
Anything is possible, I guess!
I have no doubt that Shannon will pop up soon.

DK MD said...

The received email below was a bit aggravating. Why allow a select few in LA to see the finale 10 days before its actual broadcast? "No cameras or cellphones"....does not matter; spoiler chatter will occur across all bandwidths:
VIA EMAIL:
Oscar® winning composer Michael Giacchino will conduct a live orchestral performance, featuring the iconic music of "LOST," at UCLA's Royce Hall in Los Angeles, CA on Thursday, May 13, to celebrate the upcoming series finale. The concert will also feature appearances by LOST cast members, including Nestor Carbonell, Michael Emerson, and Jorge Garcia. In addition, a special preview of the penultimate episode will be screened immediately after the concert.

Tickets will go on sale Friday, April 23rd at 10 a.m. on uclalive.org and ticketmaster.com.

Click here for tickets and more information

LOST: THE SERIES FINALE EVENT
SUNDAY MAY 23 7|6c on ABC

davidsalako said...

@DK MD - I think the performance and showing is of the penultimate episode - the episode immediately preceding the finale. It will be aired 2 days later on Tuesday, May 18th.
I don't think the show runners nor ABC will allow the ultimate finale to be ruined 10 days before it is due to air on Sunday, May 23rd.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - Thank you for the appreciation and just because I don’t say it all the time, I also appreciate your work and enthusiasm for all of us and that’s just for Lost. One needs to remember Fringe, Flashforward, etc. You should watch this week’s Supernatural episode when you get a chance, I don’t want to spoil it for you, But You Will Like It at least.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - I am not slacking on reading Brothaa ;-), I am on it.

Florin Milea said...

@anonymous - Your Sayid theory is brilliant.
@crashriprock - Nice formulation there.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - I could go on and on with the good things to say about all the characters in this show.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - I don’t want to brag here, but I did watched the whole series on my dvd 1-4 back to back and did just as much work you did, going even frame by frame to get those pieces of evidence as confusing as they are and formulating my best theory I could.

Is just that with so much posting, is easy for some things to fall throughout the cracks, so I try to keep the memory alive and well.
So here it is again and I know from the dvd extras with the producers/writers saying Verbatim of such clues been purposely planted in the episodes, their own words not mine.

Ben and John goes to Jacob’s cabin - they find it where is supposed to be.
Later, Hugo stumbles upon it (most likely breaking the circle of ash, very important clue to what happened after) and Jacob’s cabin is in the same place.
Soon after that, John’s group after leaving the radio tower with Ben in tow, goes to the same location and OOPS; The cabin is gone.
Then, John has the dream and they go to Horace’s cabin - mistaken most likely for Jacob’s cabin whereas the inhabitants are no longer the guy in the chair, but Christian - MiB most likely and Claire with this ‘friend’. She was referring to MiB posing as Christian most likely.
If this is not hinting to two cabins, one of them - Horace’s cabin been Plan B for MiB conniving act, than I don’t know what to make of it cause it no longer makes any sense.
The boat. That boat was hijacked by Ben’s goon at the pontoon. Remember, Sayid and Jin were watching the shore and Sun was on the boat when Mr Friendly and the crew came by water instead. They took the boat most likely to the Hydra island and we no longer know of its whereabouts. So, how does the same boat conveniently shows up now moored on the main island again? And why didn’t Widmore found it first when he came with the sub checked the island through a periscope?

I said this ‘the island is done, or not, with a certain character is a code phrase/sentence used by the movers and shakers, Widmore, MiB, Jacob, Eloise, Ben, etc. to diffuse the attention from them as been the movers and shakers. Is like saying; Satan made me do it. Yes, the island has unique properties and those guys knows how to use them or so it seems, while the Losties has little idea or none whatsoever. But a piece of real estate acting with cognitive powers like a human being? Come on, what are we here: Worse than a 5th graders? That’s an overkill from the prod/writers. I take an aspirin now and then, but the kitchen where I am while flashing it down with a glass of water, has nothing to do with me healing my migraine.

Why Flockey, my new nickname for him, because as I suggested long ago and you do remember all, Locke had to be claimed on lay-a-way while he was a child all throughout his death when the full possession had to have taken place.

Working here like a good NCIS dude, call me Gibbs lol, if what I advanced as a theory or more doesn’t work, than we’re stuck with no way to answer those questions. I don’t have a very good memory with names compared/contrasted to things and places. But what I watched I remember like the dvd episode is burned in my head. I would ask you to check me out on thos things, but that would knock you out of business, cause there’s no way for you to do the extra work to watch everything so carefully from the beginning.

The answer Michael gave about the ghosts and whispers makes hard for me to establish when is the work of MiB and when it’s not. You’re making sense in everything you said about the ghosts, but there’s one piece that’s not fitting anymore. MiB/Smokey/Flockey has to able as we see Christian at the hospital to travel either in person but powerless, remote most likely but if that Christian apparition was MiB, He had to be able to somehow leave the island or that scene makes no sense. cont...

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - If we don’t get all those answers in the few remaining episodes, we can chalk it up in writers/producers conflict of creative ideas leading to the confusions or lack of answers. Errare, Humanum Est.

Mike V. said...

Whew, sorry guys...I got kinda busy yesterday and last night and then had to go all FlashForward on you for a lot of time this morning. The comments really piled up since then! I'll see what I can do on responses!

@CrashripRock - Definitely a nice way of putting things with Fate vs the Desire to Change Fate and Jacob intervening at key moments when the wanted to change their destiny. As for the last time I heard the word McGuffin it was George Lucas talking about Indiana Jones 4 lol I would agree that LOST has tons of them. As for now, I'll just say...we will see if you're right! Looks like you wrote a lot more so I'll see what you guys were talking about when I get there lol

@JustinCase - Interesting idea with Penny being David's mother. Something just wouldn't seem right about that! Jack and Penny? EWWWWW lol Obviously though, it wouldn't have worked out. But it makes sense to tie Daniel in. Yep...it all makes sense with Desmond wanting to take out Locke for revenge (and of course in the process..still uniting LOSTIES)....we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out!

@David - Yep, Juliet is still an option on the table for David's Mom. I'd go with either her or Sarah. I'm still leaning towards Sarah, even if it isn't a shocker in the end. Interesting you think Jack will fall for Sarah though. Never considered that. I still think we're in for a nice JATER moment before the end. But if Jack dies...then there's still a chance for Skaters to be happy too. the ol having the cake and eating it thing. Of course, I also know many subscribe to your "who cares about Kate" idea. She has a lot of haters! LOL I never understood why. Even if she isn't the greatest actress. I never minded her story.

@3:18 Anonymous - nice...more Kate hate...see my above comment for how i feel about it!

@CrashRip - NICE V reference! lol I agree and also still think Juliet has a chance for coming in to help with Sun's baby. Makes a lot of sense.

@Gunnar - Claire does make reference to Flocke "GETTING MAD" if he finds out they're all gone. I don't think Claire is necessarily out of the woods yet from being "claimed" just as much as I'm not sure that Jack IS claimed. Totally agree that I don't think the rockets are going to kill Flocke. Which means, I question why they even launched them. And maybe Widmore has it out for the LOSTIES themselves. Or the show just likes Explosions! LOL But yeah, MIB did mention that he doesn't want to die...so apparently there IS a way to kill him. Maybe it's the WATER that we keep mentioning (Smokey in the rain is the only issue with this...we've seen it)

Mike V. said...

@V - When did Jacob touch Desmond? Are you just theorizing? Oh nevermind..you are just theorizing as you said lol Yes the writers have made it very clear that DEAD IS DEAD on the show...so there needs to be some explanation for Sayid walking around right now. him being special??? i dunno....we thought Locke was special last year which is why we didn't really question his resurrection too much (i said TOO MUCH lol I know we did) But then look how that turned out..he was certainly dead. Something tells me we'll get more explanation on Sayid. We'll see!

I really think the Patchy thing was more humorous than anything. I don't think he ever DIED until that last moment when he blew up outside the looking glass. The Sonic fence wasn't set to a lethal level. We saw Sawyer and Crew in 1974 get zapped by the fence too. There were different levels of severity.

Nice Terminator reference!!

@EJ - Naaa...Ana Lucia will be back this season. I have confidence on that. She even returned in season 5. I wouldn't say it's final. I just don't think she'll be David's mother. But I guess it's possible! lol

I agree too on Sawyer/Miles questioning Jin/Sun....that's a really good idea! Still gotta figure out how Kate and Jack get their sideways moment!

To be continued

Anonymous said...

So apparently a call sheet for the season finale was found in a restaurant in honolulu. Who knows if its real or not. But if you are interesting, check out the link.

EXTREME SPOILERS BELOW:

----------------------------------

http://gawker.com/5522253/what-does-this-possibly-fake-call-sheet-tell-us-about-the-lost-series-finale


-----------------------------------



-Jackson

Mike V. said...

@Crash/EJ/David on the Shannon Stuff. Good times! lol and nice on the BOOM FOUND lol I guess Shannon could be a lawyer..that would be interesting. As for Ilana, we don't really know her backstory too much...maybe she was a lawyer in the other times. But we do know that she is distinctly AMERICAN in this sideways world. Why is everyone in Los Angeles!?!?! There has to be a reason!!

It does seem that some professions have changed for these LOSTIES in sideways land. Only time will tell how it all pans out! Great observations though.

I think the point in showing Daniel as a musician was to show that his mother did not force him to pursue science which didn't even interest him throughout his life. Yeah, he probably could master the stuff if he wanted to...I'm not sure we're going to see him do that though!

@DKMD - I got that email too and so want to go! But I agree with David - I don't think they'll be showing the finale. And if they do..maybe it will only be the first hour...kinda like they only showed the first hour of the premiere in Hawaii a few days before.

@Florin - whew...here we go again! (just kidding lol) I hope you know I was messing with you with my "did you read the blog" comments! lol

As for watching the whole series back to back...congrats!?! I wasn't accusing anyone of not doing that! I don't even remember when I said I did do that! lol Besides saying I rewatched seasons 1-5 from July of 2009 to December of 2009.

I understand all of the cabin stuff....we've been analyzing it all season once we found out what the ash does. But I thank you for re-posting it all in one place lol So you think there are 2 cabins eh? Interesting....I don't think I agree with that. But I guess it's possible

Yep I remember Ben ordering the capture of THE ELIZABETH (sailboat)....and the whole Sun shooting Colleen thing setting Danny off to want to kill Sawyer. But we don't know if the sailboat STAYED at Hydra Island. We know they took a boat back to the barracks...i don't think it was the sailboat but it could have been. I'd have to check. but 3 years have passed since that event....any one of the others could have went to hydra (if it was there) and brought the boat back. Maybe even FLOCKE worked on getting the boat there himself.

As for Widmore finding the boat...eh....it's a big Island..they may have gone a different route. And maybe it wasn't really a concern of his. Just like the LOSTIES weren't a concern of his right away..."proceed as planned" he says or something like that when he arrives.

Hey...this is a science fiction show....the ISLAND is a special place. They have always since day 1 referred to the Island as a character on the show. It's what made THIS show work over various other attempts at writing a plane crash story for ABC. I'd much rather have an Island with healing properties be the cause of Jacob and MIB having these "abilities" instead of them just being super powered mythological beings!!
But we'll see how it goes.

As for Christian appearing OFF ISLAND....I am saying that it was NOT smokey. As much as I wanted to think that 2 years ago because of the Smoke Alarm...i just don't think it was. I think the Ghosts are something different...something not caused by Smokey. Something we have not answered yet.

If we don't get the answers it could be because the writers decided that the show speaks for itself and we can figure it out on our own. Or leave us to debate it forever. I'm pretty sure they know what questions we have. Their motto this season is...if the characters on the show don't care about the answers then neither do they (hence why DHARMA Food Drops will be an encyclopedia answer or something they'll reveal on Jimmy Kimmel and not on the show lol) .....i think the GHOSTS are something the characters on the show care about. So we'll see!

Mike V. said...

Jackson...I ain't reading it!

Anonymous said...

Update:

ABC confirms that the above link to the call sheet is in fact the real deal. Its funny, theres a memo on the sheets stating: "If
you are a cast member and havent rsvp'd for the wrap party please do so by midnight!"

-Jackson

gnni4 said...

Juliet was a fertility specialist, not an OBGYN. Ethan was the OB and has already done his walk-on return. I doubt we will see Juliet as Clairs doctor.

I was sparring with my son getting him ready for school today. He was talking about the last episode of Lost and something Hurley did . I said, "that wasn't the last episode, that was last weeks episode." He said, "yeah, the last episode, this weeks episode would be this episode" It was our own little 'who's on first'.

Made me wonder...were we misdirected by the title, The Last Recruit -- could they be talking about the last recruit (Sayid) BEFORE this one (Jack?)?? That would make the focus on Sayid and what happened at the well.

It is probably nothing, too early and not enough coffee,or I'm backwards and Sawyer would have been the last reruit, but made me wonder. They do love to mess with our heads, don't they? (Kids and Darlton too!)

Mike V. said...

Gnni no one was talking about claire's doctor. We were talking about sun! As for professions not everyone has the same exact profession as we was discussed above. The fact that it is childbirth related puts it in Juliet territory. We will see!

As for last recruit. Yea it could apply to DES recruiting sayid. But episode titles have dual meanings a lot. The fact that Jack was the last candidate that Flocke talked to makes him "the last recruit". That doesn't mean he was successful in his recruiting lol we will see!

MJ said...

I'm totally bummed - just found out that I'll be pulling an all nighter at work on 5/4 9pm to 7am for a system upgrade ! Don't they KNOW that's a Lost night ???? I wonder how fast abc.com puts the new eps up ? I'll be free between 11pm and 1am ! ;-(

Anonymous said...

Christian's nickname for Ana was Sarah, the name of his son's ex-wife.
lostpedia trivia

davidsalako said...

Love the following Doc Jensen characterization f what is happening in Sideways world:

"...the phenomenon of revelation and recollection currently breaking out like Pentecost in the Sideways world."

He has got to be the first Scripturally literate person I have ever come across commenting on a terrestrial USA network TV show in a pop culture publication! Pretty appropriate analogy to!

EJ said...

Mike -- If you are really serious about pondering why everyone is in LA, consider it is the CITY OF ANGELS!!!

I grew up in the LA area, and there was always talk among the kids about California dropping off into the ocean -- esp after the 1970's earthquakes altered our realities (same time as Willy Wonka movie -- LOL).

It could also be a simple, narcissistic nod to the entertainment industry's HOME BASE. :-)

And, sadly, LA today compared to LA back then could be described as a "Paradise Lost."

Oh, and Route 66 ends there.

How's that for starters???

crashriprock said...

There is something I have been thinking about.
If Jacob was in a physical form and could be killed by Ben. Then wouldnt his physical form have been destroyed by the 1977 nuke?
Has anyone in the sideways 2004 timeline seen or made a reference to Jacob?

crashriprock said...

and another thing
Do you remeber in Final Frontier
(Im not a trekkie)
when Kirk asks "what does God want with my ship?"
That movie is starting to remind me of this series.
Especialy the part where Kirk says to Spoc's half brother
"I want my fear ...I NEED my fear."

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - Okay, I get it, pulling my leg. I was honestly scared that I might’ve missed something there and I was going back and forth as to what...? As to watching the series back to back, I wasn’t implying anything. I did it for myself to get a better picture and refresh my memory so I don’t post like a fool. It surely helped me finding a Lost moment that Smokey had no problem with rain and davidsalako also pointed that up to give him credit here to.

You’re right about the boat been there, and 3 years past et all. That’s why I left a door open with the ‘not knowing the whereabouts’. Widmore not finding it or Smokey working on it is a good explanation to.

As with the cabins, the sequence of events points out to 2 of them, Horace’s cabin been plan B for Smokey. As to what and how Jacob’s cabin disappeared, I’ll chalk it under Jacob’s work.

I understand the island plot vs another plane crash, but with so much more going on I still think it’s an overkill. Even without the island as a cognitive character, the show has a lot to offer anyway.

Yeah, we might not get the whole jest about them ghosts. As I was saying the writers/producers said that they planted those clues on purpose, I will remind of one of them to all here, the idea that there was more to John Locke than the usual including the fact that he’s surprised to be able to walk and the significant looks showing him as an omnipotent guy with something to hide. But the ghost apparitions as a manipulation from Smokey - see Flokey and Jack vs what Michael said, really doesn’t help.

The thing for me at least with any show is that if the plot makes sense, I am more invested in than otherwise. If that’s not the case it leads to a certain sort of alienation. Surprisingly, I would be much more incline to go with the island as a character rather not be able to make sense of the ghost issue.

Florin Milea said...

@MJ - Duuude! You still have a job? Good for you because that’s what this blog is for, those missing something. I will venture to say they put up the eps pretty fast, your time line might be good.

Florin Milea said...

@crashriprock And Mike V - I asked about this before so here’s again; What was that small device in Juliet’s hands crashing it in the rock there at the bottom of the drill hole, Cause that Couldn’t Have Been A Full Size Nuke? Did she used just the detonator of the bomb they took off it - I remember the scene, to make the pocket of energy act up and reset the time line a la Desmond hatch implosion? The whole idea was to use the pocket of energy obliterate the hatch before is built, so none of the subsequent timeline/s come to happen according with Daniel?

crashriprock said...

I think the show that explains what Farreday is trying to accomplish by setting off the "detinator" is called
"VARIABLES"
but the detinator itself is what starts the nuclear recation the rest of the bomb material continues it, so the rest of the bomb in Julias case is the energy that the Dharma bunch drilled into
by accident.

Florin Milea said...

@crashriprock - I see what you're saying. But Juliet had to have only the detonator with her. I nuke is a big piece of you know. We saw it hanging by the structure when Daniel had his flash in time because of the donkey wheel, and we saw again under the temple if my memory holds well and that 1950's nuke was huge. I do not remember the Losties hauling the whole nuke to the site in their Dharma van.

Florin Milea said...

@crashriprock - Oh, correction there - The Dharma bunch were not drilling by accident at all. They were hell bend in building the hatch. Professor Chang was against it because he realized what that would do but the goons side him off.

crashriprock said...

The majority of material in a bomb in this case a hydrogen bomb is not nuclear material. The nuclear material just starts the nuclear reaction the bomb material continues the action what ever that material maybe.

and in varables Farreday approaches Chang and tells him he has to get everone off the island because there is going to be an "accident" because of the drilling and that accident will lead to a discharge of energy

before ferraday goes to see ellie hawking his mother he tell jack and kate that the dharma team are going to drill into a pocket of energy causing an accidental discharge of enery and that this will lead the dharma group to eventualy build the hatch with the number that have to be entered in order to keep the energy at bay
and that this number sequence will be missed by Desmond one day causing flight 815 to crash
Feraday said that if they set off the nuclear device that there would be no need to build the hatch and 815 will never crash

If you got to lostpedia
you can read a summary of that show its called
"VARIABLES"

crashriprock said...

while Im here
I just read that Maggie Grace was suppose to be in the begging episode with boone at and in LAX
but for what ever reason Boone tells the ticket girl that his sister is still in Australia working out issues
So maybe Boone and Sayid interact and Sayid sees a picture of Shannon that Boone may have
or something like that

Florin Milea said...

@crashriprock - Hey dude, I've been a soldier in my early days, I forgot to say this, I've got my share of such explosives - conventional or otherwise, plus.

I am not tough on you here though, I know you're trying to help. So let me help you a bit as well.

A bomb like a 50's model, is made of - and you can find on the net or on PBS shows with respect to it, a detonator made of radioactive plutonium, the hydrogen radioactive material the radioactive plutonium would set in chain reaction and a TNT or later C-4 pack of explosive to break the container of plutonium. The container is there to prevent the bomb from going off as soon as the plutonium comes in contact with the hydrogen, which would be premature. Without a container, one would blow himself up each and every time one would put those two together.

My point first of all is that the thingy in Juliets' hands is too small for a nuclear device, especially a 1950's model. That's huge like the Hiroshima nuke. If you check this log to see the pic of the bomb hanging in the open when Farady inspects it, you'll see what I mean.

Your detail about why is that needed is accurate to the point that Chang knew what drilling in that pocket meant, the goons didn't.

Farady said that the detonator would be enough to trigger a release of the energy from the pocket.

So let's say that a Full Nuke was needed or was blown there.
The Island would have been erased considering how many more such pockets are on the island,

Smokey would have instantly become Nukey

and the whole sideway and real time events would have been obliterated. No sunk island in the beginning of this season, actually no show from that moment on. That nuclear explosion would have been the Mother Of All Resets Straight Into Oblivion, past, present and future. That's my opinion.

Florin Milea said...

"Smokey would have instantly become Nukey"

I stand corrected -Snukey

Florin Milea said...

Dang... I meant Smokey would've been Snuked... I think I got it all I can rub off of this.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - Big two ones for you... keep on reading, begin...

Why a pylon sonic fence around Dharmaville when Ben summons the security system - Smokey, from his basement that been dei casa del Ben situated right within the Dharmastadt?

John Locke claimed long before and made to walk by Smokey even if remotely. Jack see the ghost of his father, falls over the cliff, Locke shows up and saves him. Jack finds the cave, all in one hour worth of episode.

John Locke makes Shannon and Boone see hallucinations and are chased by a Smoke monster. John beats up Charlie for the attempted baptismus of Aaron. John Locke teaches Walt how to throw a knife. He says: Visualise ... which was exactly Walt’s gift. Michael shows up, gets angry with Walt spending time with Locke, which he forbade. Soon the Smoke monster chase the 3 of them and Locke makes himself useful saving the day. Woo-pee-doo now all 3 are buddies.

Smokey has a place of his own under the temple. Why pour ash around it when he can come out from within and kill anyone in sight? Flokey would not go into the temple because of the ash supposedly, but smokey materialises from within and kills all who chooses to stay.

Juliet always wished in her hate against her ex-husband that he would die hit by a bus. Richard shows up at her location in Miami, pitches his proposal for her to abandon the clinic where her ex-husband is the boss and come work with Richard in Portland. I remember that her sister was in Miami and than shows up with her in Portland before Juliet leaves.
In the last conversation in between Juliet and her ex after her drug is shown successful, he gets washed away from the picture, literally hit by a bus. At the morgue, Richard and Ethan tells her that the accident was just a coincidence and she shouldn’t feel guilty like her wishes would’ve come true.
Remember that one of Smokey’s gifts is to read minds and extract memories.

In the episode ‘?’ we see the base of Jacob’s Lighthouse as we saw in the later episode but in this episode. ‘?’, it looks like a war took place in between MiB and Jacob because the lighthouse is destroyed. That location wasn’t too far from the statue and it was where the others set a temp camp to fool Michael.

John Locke as a kid has a doodle of Smokey, Richard, Ethan, Mr Friendly travel off the island. Our Russian Mikhail, gets a pic of Ben not telling the truth, see ‘The Looking Glass’ whereas Ben apologises for not been truthful. Ben let’s everybody into believing they can leave the island any time, Smokey wants off yet nobody does so when they have ample time and opportunities. John Locke even blows up the submarine. Why? Why did he entered 77 at Mikhail communication Dharma station and conveniently took a pack of C-4 with him? To blow the sub... how did he knew there is a sub at that moment that is?

All those contradictions point to the fact that even in a limited way, the characters are somehow in cahoots, Eloise included, but the game doesn’t add up no more. Oh, and then there is a donkey wheel nobody knows about except for Smokey, how convenient... Coincidences, I think not, and so do the writers/producers. cont.

Florin Milea said...

end...@Mike V - Therefore I revised my Flichard/Flicardo theory.

After Jacob talks to Ricardo first and MiB plan fails, see the dagger been returned, than Doggen gives the same dagger to Sayid, huh... and see the wine in the bottle scene where MiB seems to have an idea, the light bulb, oops, his face lits up for a sinister moment there.

MiB takes the war to Jacob - in person, mano-a-mano, man to man, faces to face, all bets off, gloves off, no more gents/ladies night out, to heck with all that gallantry, too British for his taste. MiB traps Jacob in his cabin with a circle of ash and Jacob is visible only to - let’s say certain candidates, even John and definitely Hurley/Hugo. But before that, MiB impersonates Jacob, fools Ricardo all the time in making him, and him Ben, believe is Jacob’s plans they carry and puts even restriction on who can and when can they see Jacob, oops, Smokey.

What a disaster would it be for someone like, say - Florin, to come unannounced and catch Smokey with the pants down in someone else’s cabin, right?

So Locke remotely controlled so far and in as above, forces the meeting but no problem, Smokey already knows that because he’s got a claim on Locke. They go to the cabin, etc. ... we hear “Help me’, later Hugo stumbles into the same cabin, same cry for help, Hugo runs scared and breaks the circle of ash. That’s all Jacob needs to break free and make the cabin disappear to end the conniving game of MiB, but alas, here’s the Horace cabin, plan B with Christian and Claire. The same ‘I speak for Jacob’ is said, where the heck is this Jacob, I mean, how busy can this sucker be not to pay attention to such important matters ;-) and all those happened I think after the hatch implosion if my memory holds well and things don’t get any better from there.
This could explain that certain ghosts are helped by Jacob, see Libby, perhaps even Michael, while others are the Works of Smokey.

If this holds true, that could explain a certain remote kind of travel or access to the outside world for Smokey, perhaps spying on the Lighthouse of Jacob, seeing what candidates would be brought to the island and causing them troubles so they don’t get to come to the island, etc.

What do you think?

Florin Milea said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Florin Milea said...

By the way! What are the chances that the dagger Flockey surrendered to Hugo is not the same legendary dagger from Ab Aeterno episode to Doggen and Sayid down to this?

crashriprock said...

If we are going to get really harsh with the continuity director
the fact is that the nuclear detonator from a 1950s hydrogen bomb would have looked like a soccer ball and would have been about as big as a grape fruit
it only takes a few grams or less of radioactive materical to start a nuclear reaction .
If you want me to speculate as to why that would be enough to stop the energy from being released I will
But it may very well end up being a big spoiler.
When write my posts on what I think will happen I try very hard not to say anything that maybe a spoiler most of what I do post has either already been shown or can be found on lostpedia.

crashriprock said...

and while we are at it
I think it will turn out that setting off the nuke was a MACGUFFIN anyway.
because at the beginng of this season we see that the Island is under water
and...
we see the Dharma building under water with sea growth
if it would have been a true hydrogen bomb explosion none of that stuff would have been left standing

so what ever went off in Julia's hand was designed to only stop the enegery from busting lose and negate the need for the hatch to be built
so maybe for the sake of stopping this red herring chase we could just call it a
"TACTICAL NUKE"
lol

Anonymous said...

@Florin - I like the premise of Jacob being trapped in the cabin and all that led up to it and after it. Although I don't neccisarily agree with 2 cabins--just(somehow) one that is mobile.

This would explain how Ben and Richard could have been duped all this time but there's one flaw. We haven't seen MIB take the form of any living being so he would not be able to take Jacob's form. So the Richard dupe is harder to explain.

Unless, and I know this is crazy... and it may need some tightening up.

Before Ben mentioned to Locke about moving the island , he mentioned it was done once before but comes with certain unknown risk & should only be done as a last resort.

We also know when the wheel is turned the island moves, not only in space but time. Only the annointed ones can travel with the island, all others are left behind (no pun intended back there).

What if Ben's reference to the island moving is a piece to the puzzle. If MIB was able to Dupe someone to move the wheel to a point in the future where Jacob is dead-then he could take his form and dupe Richard in the past....


Uarhgh---OUCH...Brain is about to explode!!!!
BLURP



Nope impossible can't be; Sorry to have wasted your time.

:-)

V

crashriprock said...

I was just thinking about what Jacob said to unLocke just before Ben stabbed Jacob.

You FOUND your LOOPHOLE.

Another way of looking at a loophole is to imagine a circle or loop with a hole in it.
inother words a complete circle of ash that has been disturb or broken

crashriprock said...

I was also thinking last night about what I had posted earlier about the grapics at the end I posted that at the very end the last graphic may be

BOOM FOUND

but it could be

BOOM WON

Mike V. said...

Whew....I think I just need to live on this blog to keep up! :-) Of course, the more comments I respond to...I'd say the less likely I'm going to be able to get a blog up next week! :-) lol J/k, but I still don't know when I'll find the time. I'll see what I can do!

@MJ - OUCH on the all-nighter! That really sucks...but you'll probably have the next day off, right? Or at least a late start? Maybe you can catch it then lol I don't think it will be on abc.com until early morning. Maybe 6am? But you never know!

@Anonymous 1:49 - Yep, that definitely was the name Ana used. It's a bit of Lost Addicts Blog trivia too not to compete with the almighty Lostpedia. I used to speculate, amongst many others I'm sure that Christian went with the name SARAH for Ana Lucia because he was having an affair with her. Sarah had said there was someone else in the episode prior that she was in which led to Jack and Sarah's divorce. (oh yeah and his incessant need to FIX things). Anyway, the first episode of season 3 we saw Jack's jealousy rage over Christian talking to Sarah all of the time and he figured he was the other man. So we were RIGHT to speculate that. But it turns out that Sarah was the shoulder to lean on during his alcoholic drought. And Jack's jealousy led to him barging into an AA meeting and going off on his Dad. And THIS led to Christian returning to his alcoholic ways which led to him operating while drunk and Jack calling him out and Christian losing his license. Whew....Long story short - I do not think this was foreshadowing in any way that Ana Lucia is Jack's ex-wife in sideways land LOL

@David - so crazy, I saw someone say the exact thing over on a Jensen post last week...about him being scripturally literate LOL I never even heard someone say those 2 words together before that. But yeah, he certainly ties in many biblical events. If this show came out during high school, I would've been all over it with my 12 years of Catholic School - ahh Religion Class. Those were a good time lol But yeah - the Pentecost is a good analogy!

@EJ - I'm as serious as you want me to be with the L.A. thing. It's not only why people are there...it's why they have based their life there for the most part (exclude: Sun, Jin, Claire, Sayid, charlie)....I'm talking about Rose and Bernard living there even though they're based out of New York in island timeline.....Ilana living there with an American Accent. We know why Kate was there but she's originally from Iowa...she seems to know a lot about Los Angeles right down to knowing how to get to Brentwood! lol Charles Widmore is living in Los Angeles...that could be explained that he stayed with Eloise and she moved Daniel there too in the Island timeline. But WHY did they go to Los Angeles in either timeline? Daniel still went to Oxford for school and Eloise was working at that antique shop in London when Desmond came in. Anyway, a lot of convenience storytelling in the fact that they're all in LA X (X for alternate universe LOL) OR, it could be some kind of controlled environment where they're all in the same area due to whatever this sideways world is. Somewhere were some powers that be can keep a watchful eye and make sure there are no "violations" But yeah...all of the Los Angeles background is a good time too! LOL And I do want to drive that Route 66 one day!! :-)

Okay next starts the eternal debate between Crash and Florin....I'll see what I can do in responding! But I do see my name called out a few times lol Stay tuned!

Mike V. said...

@Crash - I've been thinking about the same thing...not exactly the same thing...but the Sideways Land seems like a timeline where Jacob never intervened. I still am not entirely onboard with the Sideways Land being a timeline where life continued after the Incident in 1977. I think we have clearly seen that life continued THE OTHER way. Jack and crew were transported to 2007 where nothing changed proving that Whatever happened happened in their timeline. BUT...there is a Sideways timeline that was created somehow...Daniel seems to think it was Jughead, so we should too. But staying in accordance with WHH, it would be a brand NEW timeline....one in which Oceanic 815 never crashes, so no one ever goes to the island, turns a donkey wheel...sends people back to DHARMA TImes....and no one blows up a nuke. But for some reason, the Island is sunk and it happened after or during DHARMA times. But yeah...the fact that Jacob is nowhere to be found in Sideways Land is intriguing so far. Then again...we didn't meet Jacob for the first time until 5 seasons into the Island timeline! You just never know with this show.

As for Star Trek V, the 2nd worst Trek movie of all time (I go with Star Trek: The Motion Picture for the crown)....I'm gonna show some of my geek side right now and correct the quotes. Kirk says "What does God need with a starship?" had nothing to do with Kirk's ship...he just wanted to know if it was God why would he need a ship? He's GOD! lol He was defensive though because it was HIS ship. And then as for the FEAR....it was PAIN. "I need my pain" And it's very similar to what Locke said to Sawyer when time travelling....I needed that pain to get where I am now. Yeah - there are similarities...but If LOST based the entire show on Star Trek V? We're in huge trouble! LOL

@Florin - I know what you mean about refreshing memories with rewatching LOST. I'm always rewatching episodes and Netflix Streaming has made it THAT much easier. I watched "life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" last week....and I haven't been able to stop watching all of the season 5 episodes since then. I just keep selecting them and hitting play lol But they are good refreshers to see everything Flocke did before we knew he was Flocke...so it's a good time. Plus, I'm enjoying season 5 even more the more that I watch it. For all of the confusing themes it introduced, it was a highly enjoyable season!

You can point out the Smokey/ RAIN thing to me too if you want as I did bring it up also, but I'm not looking for credit! :-) lol

I mean...I guess one cabin could have been a smokey apparition. (if you want to go with the 2 cabin theory) But I think smokey can only appear like dead people....so i dunno. Maybe it's Jacob work....I have no idea. I'd love an explanation on the moving cabin, but something tells me we're not getting it!

I think the CHARACTER STORY of LOST is what is intended to make the most sense in the end. All of these mysteries surround it help make LOST the phenomenon it is...but if we didn't care about the characters in these situations, the show wouldn't work at all. So yeah, we may get some cheap answers here and there or no answer at all....but as long as we know the outcome of all of these characters...I think we'll be satisfied. I still think it's been made very clear that the Ghosts are different than Smokey. Hurley is the only one seeing the GHOSTS so far....every time else, it appears it was Smokey..or a dream. Of course Sawyer and Desmond have both seen this boy roaming around the Island. Anyway, the one thing about ghosts that confuse me right now is Christian appearing to Jack off island. I know you still think it's smokey. but the simple fact that Hurley told Jack that someone is coming to visit him...and that message came from Ghost Charlie...makes me think it's something different. That and MIB is trapped on the island.

Mike V. said...

Anyway, in either case...you're right...something right now isn't adding up and hopefully we'll get an answer. As for the Island as a character....maybe that was just a way to refer to it when the show started ....and now as the answers are coming in...Jacob and MIB really were the ones in control. I still think the Island has its own agenda...and we're going to find out what that is in the final episodes (and maybe this GHOST BOY is representing the Island - if not a younger Jacob or MIB).

Rewatching the scene in the Incident right now. What they removed from the bomb is the Plutonium Core and not the detonator. Faraday left instructions on HOW to detonate it. "The core itself is a thermal nuclear weapon. It will be more than enough" to wipe out the pocket of energy...according to Sayid as he's telling Jack. Anyway, I'm not going to get into the debate on if this was too small to be a nuke....the show says it was...and I'm on board! LOL

Crash: the episode you're referring to is actually called "THE VARIABLE" not VARIABLES....i know i'm being nitpicky...but it was supposed to be a companion piece to "THE CONSTANT" Get it? Constants and Variables? LOL Again, what is all this talk of Lostpedia? We have a perfectly good library of information in recaps on this BLOG! :-) lol j/k I use Lostpedia too.

Yep - they tried to cast Maggie Grace for the premiere but there were issues with conflicting shoot for something else. So they "RE-WROTE" that part of the script to adjust for her not being there. No fear, rumor has it we will be seeing Shannon before the end of the show.

SNUKEY eh Florin? Have you ever seen MTV's The Jersey Shore? That name would take on a whole new meaning if you did LOL

Okay...next up - Florin's "2 big ones for me" whew....here we go!

Mike V. said...

@Florin - first correction - Locke only made BOONE see hallucinations....and Locke was convinced "THE ISLAND" was making them see this stuff. Shannon never even left the beach. It was all in Boone's head.

2nd correction - in the episode "?" we find the Pearl Station and do not go to FAKE OTHERS CAmp...I think that's what you're referring to. That was not the base of the Lighthouse lol

As for locke not knowing about the sub...check season 3 TRICIA TANAKA IS DEAD...Kate informs Sayid and Locke about them giving a boat to Michael....and Locke becomes concerned "So, they can leave the Island?!" Even if he didn't know they had a sub...he may have known they had some form of transportation and he wanted to eliminate it.

I guess you're trying to say that Smokey was behind a lot of that stuff in post #1 right? Not sure I buy it...but we'll move on. You think the cabin can move around the island but have a circle of ash around it the whole time? Interesting...not sure I buy that either! lol Remember, the circle of ash stayed where it was when Locke went back to talk to Jacob (with the season 4 people that ditched Jack due to the "Not Penny's Boat" warning)....the ASH was still there but the cabin was gone.

I dunno....just don't know who was in that cabin the first time we saw it. I guess it could be Jacob...but Ben definitely SAW Jacob when he killed him. Why didn't he see or hear anything in the cabin. He shot John because John heard "JACOB".....and Ben never did. He knew that his time in power was coming to an end. As for ANOTHER FORM of transportation off of the Island. I'm all for that and have subscribed to that since Tom met up with Michael off island and implied "some of us can come and go as we please" and we see Richard on and off of the island PRE-SUB days.

I'm sure I may have skirted around the core issue you were bringing up in those posts, but maybe I hit it at some points! lol

Good question on the dagger that Flocke handed to Hugo..not sure!

Mike V. said...

@V - That is one crazy theory!! LOL But I think I agree with your last line of the post! But it wasn't a waste of time, I still enjoyed it LOL :-)

One thing about Ben talking about moving the island being a big risk....yeah he said that, but then we found out in season 5 that the Island is ALWAYS moving through space and time. Hence the creation of the Lamp Post station to track it. (which does anyone still think Faraday created that station in the 70's? I have my suspicions) Anyway, I still hold to my theory that when Desmond blew the hatch...and the sky turned purple...maybe it caused the island to STOP moving...and somehow the donkey wheel FROZE LOL (i know it sounds ridiculous)....but then it explains how Penny and Widmore find the Island...and why the ultimate resolution to make it disappear again is to MOVE it.....ben goes in there and chops away the ice from the wheel and gets that puppy moving again...except it is dislodged ...making people bounce all over time. But once Locke sets it in place....I think the Island continues to move because they need the Lamp Post to find the Island again.

END THEORY :-)

Mike V. said...

@crash - LOL nice on the Loophole in the ASH. good times.

As for the end....I think i like FOUND better.....but what if it just boomed to "THE END" ???? I'd say more but some people still may not know the name of the series finale and even though I think it's not spoilerish at all...I don't want to spoil people! But, if you want to see how fitting that could be...look up the Series Finale title lol

anyway...i think in the end...we'll still be LOST and so we will cut to the BOOM LOST.....but it might not BOOM....it might be one of those softer endings....where we have the Michael Giacchino "Life and Death" theme playing (my favorite!) and we're seeing a montage of how everything ends....and then just as that final note plays.....the screen turns black...and the LOST title comes up.

THE END. ahhhhhhhh perfect...and even more perfect if it's focusing on Jack's eye as he closes it mirroring him opening his eye to the Island in the first shot of the series premiere.

crashriprock said...

Isnt the Lamp Post in los Angeles along with the main charaters in the sideways timeline?
and the Island is somewhere on the other end of a tectonic plate

Mike V. said...

Crash - yes the Lamp Post is in Los Angeles. We don't know if it exists in the sideways world or not. But DHARMA found a way to get to the Island in either case.

As for where the Island exists....it seems to be somewhere in the South Pacific on September 22, 2004 in both timelines. I'm guessing if it's submerged underwater in sideways, it's not moving. But in the Island timeline...it seemed to have moved all over the place....the fact that the Nigerian Plane got there indicated that the Island was in a different location...and the fact that the Black Rock ended up there after sailing off of the Atlantic shows this too. And in season 5, we even witness the nigerian plane coming there.....it just happens to be right after they "MOVE THE ISLAND" that worked out nicely!

crashriprock said...

well my point was more to the tectonic plate
in other words lost angeles and the island seem to be on opposite ends of the ring of fire
and where there is smoke....

Mike V. said...

btw...I was just cleaning up my inbox and saw that LOST - Live Performance -The Final Celebration email again. Just wanted to update my statement to agree with David. Since it referred to the "penultimate episode" we are talking about them getting an advanced screening to the episode BEFORE the finale. of course, considering the name of THAT episode, it certainly sounds important! But again, I know some people don't like knowing episode titles either until the episode airs so I will say no more! :-)

Anonymous said...

Here's a thought:

Eloise and Widmore are trying to prevent Desmond from his attempt to find Penny

and expose the other characters from discovering there other life because it
would mean the death of their son Daniel Faraday if they can keep Desmond locked

up or diffuse his abilities they can continue to live their life with their son
alive.

Gary H

crashriprock said...

Here is a lose paraphrase of the things Eloise has said to Desmond and one about Desond .

Eloise tells Desmond when he is buying the engangement ring that if he proposes to Penny everyone will die.

At the lamp post Eloise tells Desmond that the most important thing he will ever do is "PUSH" that button.

She apologizes to Penny for Desmond getting shot Eloise tells Penny that is was her sons fault
Penny asks if her son was Ben
Eloise says no that Daniel was her son.

Then at the party in sideways world Eloise tells Desmond to stop what he is doing that he is not ready yet

as an added bonus here are a couple of fun trivia facts

we do not know who Pennys mother is

we do not know ANYTHING about Desmond prior to 1996

and Daniel told Desmond that
"the RULES did not apply to him"

sorry if Im posting too much tell me if I am
Im covalecsing from a back injury

Anonymous said...

Eloise is having a great time
in sideways, she lives with her son
and does not live with the guilt that she shot him.

Gary H

Anonymous said...

How about:

BOOM! LAST



Gary H

Florin Milea said...

@crashriprock - I agree with you and I have agreed with you as why that had to be done.

I just didn’t see the Whole nuke been taken to the site for detonation.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you on the pocket of energy. I think the whole premise was to do exactly that, let the energy out so the reset kicks in rather to prevented. They took advantage of the fact that the goons are drilling, no point for the Losties to do that, and when the drill hits the pocket than use that detonator to heighten the energy release. At least that’s how I remember it.

A tactical nuke, yeah, for a science fiction I could subscribe to it, although even those weren’t that small at the time either. But the hydrogen has to be radioactive to whatever level as well as the plutonium contained in the safe tube so the reaction goes on up instead of fizzling out. That’s what happens with an old nuke who’s radioactive lever evaporated and becomes just a radiologic weapon.

What I was imagining was that the detonator activates the pocket, the pockets activate the rest of the nuke. That would make more sense if a nuke would’ve been blown.

So you’re right as I said, the sunken island points to no nuke was detonated.

crashriprock said...

Here is another thing I would like to add at this point that may help clear a few things up.
On the beach where we see Jacob and the MIB the end of the conversation goes

MAN IN BLACK: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress

I beleive that this is a reference (and the only reference) to the biblical Jacob and Jacobs ladder

In the bible Jacob has a dream about a ladder in which angels are traveling up and down. It is beleived that the reference the dream makes, is that many great civilizations have tried to accend the ladder only to fall from grace
Babylon Persia Greece...
So when MIB says it always ends the same he is referring to how all the great civilizations before have come to power but eventually are destroyed

and when Jacobs says it only ends once that everything in between is progress
he means that each civilization's end is only once and then the next civilizations learns from the previous in the form of progress.

Florin Milea said...

@Anonymous - You didn’t wasted my time, actually your theory has some merits just as mine minus the whatever holes are in the logic and we can’t escape. I mean a lot of things were overlooked, like the magic box, Ben was talking. So who knows, maybe Smokey who knows about the island just as much as Jacob, could’ve tried that but Jacob beat him up to it.

I agree that the taking the form of a living person is not what we know as been part of Smokey’s arsenal.

That’s why I pointed that Jacob was invisible and, I see what you were saying, Smokey didn’t had to impersonate Jacob, just keep him hidden so nobody catches on what’s happen, okay now we’re congruent. But this new realignment gives credence to the two cabins minus the hole in the logic as why did they went to Jacob’s cabin and than, I am rambling here off guard. Yet I remember from the episode the ash circle been in place, yet both Ben and John had a oops, what the heck, where’s the cabin look on their faces and than John said something like change of plans.

crashriprock said...

Florin Milea

In the episode that airs this coming week
the rerun "ab aeterno"
pay close attention to what Jacob says about the cork in the bottle being the island and it keeps the evil trapped inside the bottle

then think pompeii

Mike V. said...

Gary, that's the most common theory right now...that Eloise is aware of the Island timeline but prefers the sideways timeline where Daniel is still alive...and she wants to prevent that from changing. The only thing that doesn't seem to fit is that she said to Desmond that he isn't ready "YET"....the yet part seems to indicate that maybe this sideways story isn't meant to last....or maybe it's the fact that it IS meant to last and Desmond wasn't ready to know everything that has happened to lead them to this timeline. But, for the most part, people that are sensing their other life sense something is OFF with this sideways universe. So...it's anyone guess where they're going with this! And BOOM LAST is a good time!

@Crash - good summary of Eloise stuff. And you're right that we do not know who Penny's mother is. but we may know her last name now....MILTON. And, I'm going to venture to guess that his time in the monastery was meant to be PRIOR to 1996...because he meets Penny at the end of Catch 22. Then in Flashes Before Your Eyes is where they break up....and THEN he joins the military...which is in 1996. Considering Desmond and Penny are in love and moved in together in Flashes....I'm guessing that Catch 22 took place a year or two or more before.

And yep...the rules certainly do not apply to Desmond. Nope you're not posting too much...but I just may not be able to keep up with you and Florin. you guys are on a posting bonanza! lol I'll try my best though.

@Florin - ONCE AGAIN...it was not a detonator...it was the Thermal Nuclear CORE of the bomb! If you check out my comment to you guys above as I quoted the episode verbatim.

But, I will agree that in sideways that no nuke was detonated. It seems something else sunk the island...perhaps volcanic activity as many of us have theorized. Crash even mentions Pompeii below...but I'm not sure why. But that does make me wonder about the relation of the ASH to stopping smokey...perhaps this Island Volcano was involved in the creation of ol' Smokey. I sure hope we're going to see it before the end! (the volcano...and how smokey became smokey lol)

Okay, that's it for me posting today. Keep up the great discussion and I'll catch up when I can!

EJ said...

Hey Mike,

Namaste! I was just trying to be clever about LA. :-)

Heaven vs Hell, sunken island, baseball, Adam & Eve (plus, Penny's last name is Milton), all roads lead to LA in this sideways world.

I think it's a very valid question, too!

Mike V. said...

I know EJ, I enjoyed it lol

Mike V. said...

Just wanted to share this...Damon Lindelof just tweeted it:

"@DamonLindelof: We wrapped the Pilot on my birthday. Bender called at 6 AM to say the finale is completed exactly six years later."

So many mixed emotions after reading 2 sentences. i think my first emotion is to cry a little inside....then maybe I'll start the outside process! lol But, in the end....very exciting!!

crashriprock said...

Milton
really?
as in paradise lost and paradise regained
that Milton
how many characters if not maybe all the charaters in this show are named after philosiphers?
the funny thing is they all deal with self determination
go figure

Florin Milea said...

@anonymous Gary H - We have speculated that one of the reasons Eloise does that is to keep her son alive no matter what and that would make her bad. I used another word for that, and I got a bit flame-broiled, call me Smokey now... lol
My next best is that she wants to make Des wait until she can figure out a way to keep Daniel alive and hopefully after that Des can get back with Penny, which would make ELoise a good character.

Florin Milea said...

@crashriprock - Don’t worry about posting, we like to read - we hate the typing tough, I do at least. Hope your convalescing goes well.
Is good you refreshed my memory here with ‘the rules does not apply to Des’ so why is Eloise playing like rules would apply to him?
Good view with the historic and biblical records here, I agree with you postulating on it and the Pompeii thing. I give it to you, you got your Bible and History right, two of my main high school and college study courses.
Yes, couldn’t have missed that, the bottle is the prison for Smokey, Smokey is the wine for lack of better word and the cork is the island.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - And in addition to you, I invite everyone who pointed something out to step forward for the credit. Is hard for me to remember all.

You refreshed my memory about the character story. That would explain the lack of answers, but as end users and consumers that could create a little alienation for been left in the lurch. On a note, I liked both Michele Rodriguez and Evangeline Lilly acting, I don’t understand the fan hate, but that’s just me.

You made a good point with maybe one cabin was a Smokey apparition after all. That didn’t came to me, but Christian’s ghost appearing at the hospital, yes is really out of sync compared to the new revelation and considering that Hurley could’ve just be dreaming or he’s been in touch only with the good ones.

Even Anonymous here advanced the idea that maybe Smokey moved the island to a time where he can kill Jacob. He couldn’t do it directly, but anonymous has a good point that Smokey could’ve moved the island closer to the events which would lead to Jacob’s assassination, who knows.

One thing about re-watching is that you catch on the clues as originally one couldn’t. With that hindsight it’s easier to go back and have that aha moment, and I had plenty of them.

JS, I see what you’re saying. lol But I am glad that for one moment I had enough satirical-humor inspiration to come with a nickname myself, Sawyer is still the best, and boy-oh-boy, I think I milked for all it’s worth ;-)

Okay, so Shannon, I agree, never left the beach, good correction but Boone was with John in the jungle, right? Anyway, my point was that the writers/producers did planted those many moments a la - ‘There’s more to John than what you see, but you’ll see later what’ type of stuff. I mean right of the bat they said, John wiggles his thumbs instead of checking for cuts, bruises etc. When I saw it originally, even I thought to myself; that’s curious, wiggle the thumbs? What up with that? But of course been new we couldn’t see it for a clue until later with the wheel chair episode.

As with the episode titles I am sure I get them wrong, but I remember that when Michael was taken to the makeshift camp, in the upper right corner of the screen shows up a piece of wall with the window only and that looked similar to the design of the lighthouse. I know for sure because after seen the Lighthouse episode I froze the frame and looked at it like; Interesting.

Yeah, the circle of ash does mess up my theory, don’t know how to put it together from there on. But watching the episodes again and with the hindsight, those were the only logical explanations I could come up with. I mean, how does Locke’s blunt statement to the Losties; “There’s other peoples on this island and you know it” come into play. He doesn't need a compass, he shows up at the right time at the right place and I could go on and on with the list. Again, at the original airing none of us could put the finger on it, it’s only now with the hindsight.

The dagger would be a nice touch on the full circle theory.
The lamp post been built by Faraday? Well, Eloise couldn't have done it alone, so Faraday is a good speculation so as the wheel been frozen by Des accident.

With comments Mike, give us some time to catch on as well with the corrections.
I got the thermal nuclear core but... I wish they the prod/writers would have done some Research, emphasis added. We’re confused by the language here, engineer vs layman. For a scientist that is accurately described as you said, you’re right, but for the layman soldiers like me in plain English that’s the detonator, but potato-potatoe sort of going no biggie...

Good refresh course in Volcano. Yes a volcano will spew ash, symbolic, and Smokey would be the smoke. So who’s the fire, who’s the lava, and was MiB burned into a smoke by a past volcanic reaction I wonder?

Funny one on posting bonanza.

crashriprock said...

Maybe that is the key to this
all the philosiphers named directly or indirectly in this series are all people who helped forge our modern western civilization Hell even John Locke is quoted in the declaration of independence
So maybe the island is a test sample of our western ideas to see if they are as easily corruptable as past civilizations to determine to what extent we may or may not be eraticated.

another thought

When llana asks richard
who lies in the shadow of the staute?
and richard replies
he who will say us all
maybe he who lies in the shadow of a stautue is someone who is in his fathers shaddow.

only the shaddow knows... lol

crashriprock said...

and MIKE
I havent seen Final Frontier since it came out.
It just reminded me of those two scenes

Florin Milea said...

@crashriproc - ‘He who will save us all’ you meant? I can see the Biblical reference to Jesus here, but that’s in stark contrast with the pagan symbols all around, but granted is a good speculative thought.

A sample of our Western civilisation been tested? Yeah I can go with that as well, but He who lay into the shadow of the Father already knows that, so why the test? It seems a bit off to me to go to all that for something the Shadow knows already.

It looks like; Can God create a rock heavier that even He can’t lift? The answer is; Yes, but than why would God do a such stupid thing anyway?

Than this Jacob who’s so picky as when he intervenes and when not and why so or not as Mike pointed out, kind of weakens the test picture. Heck, at this point one can say and rightly so that two brothers are playing a stupid game, mom and pop should ground them for two centuries.

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