Wednesday, February 17, 2010

LOST: Season 6 Episode 4 - The Substitute

Hello LOSTIES!   I think my tweet right at the end of the episode said it all (apologies for the abbreviated profanity, I got a little excited!).    This episode was absolutely fantastic!  Anything you could hope for in a final season episode.  Leave it to a Locke-centric outing to get us on track and absolutely fascinated to where this is all going!   I've said it before, I'll say it again and again and again.  WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW!!!  I love this show, and there is nothing you can say to make me a hater!  Reveal after reveal tonight on the Island.   Suspense, a great one-liner from Ben, flying around the Island from Smokey's Point-of View, Candidates, numbers, and a creepy boy and his RULES.  And WOW, a Flash Sideways that just totally kicked butt!  Ladies and Gentlemen, the decision that Team Darlton worked out with ABC in season 3 to bring this show to a close in 3 years time was the best creative decision we may have ever seen a Television Series get the chance to make.   Could you ever imagine being this excited about reveals in the 6th season of any other show where there was no end in sight?  I am totally on board with what's going on and am enjoying every second of it.  

But alas, me professing my love for LOST is not why we read these recaps, right?  We want to dissect, analyze and discuss what we learned and apply what we already have learned and speculate to what we might learn!   (will there ever be another show like this that we'll care about so much to do all of this hard work?)   So with that, let's begin the recap!

The Substitute, the episode title could mean so many things.  But the easiest one to figure out would be the reveal of John Locke's ultimate occupation by the end of the episode in SIDEWAYS land.  It could apply to who is taking Locke's place on the Island right now.   It could have something to do with all of this candidate talk.   In the episode we followed 3 major story lines.  We followed John Locke in Flash Sideways land after he returns from his trip to Sydney.  Ilana, Ben and the non-temple Others are on a mission to get to the Temple but get sidetracked along the way.   And yes, Flocke/Man In Black/Smokey goes recruiting.  His first targets?  Richard and Sawyer.   Let's dive in!

Flash Sideways
John Locke
Things are different:
Well, it didn't take us long to note some of the differences in this new Locke adventure.  We see him arriving to his house in a handicapped van (looks like he is able to drive it himself).  He has some issues getting the lift to work to lower him to his driveway and has to force himself off.  He ends up falling onto the lawn and the sprinklers go off.  Note: Island Locke's love for predicting the weather and joyously looking to the skies when it rains on him.   This did NOT look as exciting!  But someone, came out of the house.  And wouldn't you know it....
  • It's Helen!  Helen is still with Locke in this timeline.   Not only are they together, but they are not even married yet.  They're engaged and supposed to get married in October.  This raises the question to if Helen had been with him as long as they were together in the other timeline.  Johnny boy still had hair in those days and it was right after his father conned him out of a Kidney.  Locke was going to propose then but ended up helping his father "Anthony Cooper, Tom Sawyer, whatever you want to call the con man" get some retirement money out of a locker and get out of town.  Helen caught him on it and broke up with him for good.   
  • So, did all of this still happen this way?  We have to assume that Locke was still paralyzed by getting pushed out a window by his father, right?  So maybe Helen felt sympathy for Locke and went back to him in this storyline?   Are we even going to dive that far into this new timeline?   Does it matter in the long run?   I guess what we need to know is that there are similarities but some things are different.  And well, Locke and Helen are getting married. 
    (UPDATE:  Due to my frantic note taking, I missed Helen mention inviting John's father to the VEGAS Wedding.  Whoops!  That's a major miss and I apologize.  Read on in the comments for possible implications due to this!)
  • Helen is stressing about the wedding, is sick of talking to caterers.  She wants to run off to Vegas. But Locke convinces her they can do it.  There is a sweet moment where Locke picks the wrong chair fabric (green) and then when he sees Helen's reaction "I meant blue!"     
  • Helen aks John how his "conference" was.  John clearly lied to why he went to Australia and this plays a role in later events.    
  • Helen finds Jack Shephard's card and John fills her in on the consult.   Helen seems to be the "WOMAN OF FAITH" in this relationship.  She tells him how miracles CAN happen.  She even talks about Destiny (something the other John Locke would totally be on board with)  Locke sheepishly agrees but doesn't seem to buy it. 
  • Did I mention Locke was taking a bath during all of this?  I'll spare you from those pictures! 
Back to the Box Company
Locke returns to the office that we have not seen since Episode 4 of Season 1 "Walkabout".  This is the box company that we eventually learned was owned by Hugo "Hurley" Reyes.  We find out that he still has an idiot of a boss.
  • Yep, that's right.  Randy Nations makes an encore performance.  We have seen Randy in Walkabout and various Hurley flashbacks.  We came to find out that Randy was Hurley's manager at Mr. Cluck's before winning the lottery.  Hurley ended up quitting his job there but then hired Randy to work for him.  First, he continued to work at Mr. Cluck's but when the chicken shack got blown up, he went to work at the box company.  In both jobs Randy was never the best boss.   Anyway, long story short - he calls Locke out on not showing up to a conference in Sydney when he was there.  
  • Locke took the company's money to make a trip to Sydney and go on his Walkabout.  Randy, being the BLEEP BLEEP (insert your own terms) that he is, fires Locke on the spot.  Ouch.
  • We actually do see pictures in Locke's cube of him hunting with his father.  So we can probably assume he still had the unhealthy relationship with his father.  So the interesting twist in this timeline is that Helen doesn't seem to care.

  • Outside of the office as Locke is leaving with his box of stuff, he cannot get into his car because a yellow Hummer is parked really close next to him.   Anyone who has seen Hurley's season 1 episode "Numbers" knows that Hurley got a yellow Hummer after winning the lottery.   And what do you know, Hugo shows up just in time for Locke to yell at him a bit.  Funnily enough, Locke didn't park in the handicapped spot.  I guess this goes into the theme that he wants people to accept him and for people to not tell him what he cannot do! 

  • Hugo apologizes and they introduce themselves to each other.  Hurley even comments about Randy being a huge D****E and everyone at home gets a good laugh!  Hurley gives Locke a phone number for the temp agency he owns and pretty much guarantees John a job.   "chin up.  thinks are going to work out!"   Here is the luckiest man alive talking all positive again.  Nuts! 



Temp Agency
The next scene is at the Temp Agency and we see a few familiar faces! 
  • The first lady Locke talks to may look familiar to some but I'm going to have to help fill in the blank stare you may have.   Remember Hurley's season 3 episode "Tricia Tanaka is Dead" when Hurley's Dad takes him to see a psychic and the woman gets bribed to tell him the numbers are cursed?   Yep, same woman!  Hysterical!  Okay, after grabbing screen shots from both episodes, now I can see some differences but come on even the outfit is similar.  Is it the same lady or am I going crazy? 


(The Substitute)

(Tricia Tanaka is Dead)

  • Anyway, Temp lady asks what kind of animal John Locke thinks he is.  Locke thinks she is ridiculous and asks for her supervisor.   Her supervisor is none other than Rose Nadler!  She is willing to help John get a job due to Hurley being her boss, but she is very aware of his condition. 

  • John wants a site coordinator job at a construction site and Rose doesn't see him fitting the description.  She then gets into her story of having terminal cancer.  Looks like nothing is different there.  Rose is sick, and because she doesn't go to the island, she is going to die.   But in both timelines Rose had come to terms with her condition and she was able to live her life.  She was advising John to do the same.   Ironic, because Rose knew she was healed in the other timeline by seeing John in a wheelchair at the Sydney airport and then seeing him walking around on the Island.  I am loving the potential of these Flash Sideways connections! 
  • Rose seemingly has Locked convince by the end of the conversation to find him a good fit for a job.

The Next Day
Locke wakes up, does his morning ritual of getting in his chair.  He looks at Jack's card and begins to call. 
  • The receptionist at Jack's office answers "Can I help you?"  Locke hears Helen coming and says "No you cannot" and hangs up.  Helen questions Locke about the call and Locke says that Jack cannot fix him.  
  • The doorbell rings and Locke's missing bag of knives shows up.  (so much for my crazy theory about them disappearing to the Island in the other timeline!   I knew it was too crazy anyway!)  
  • Locke then tells Helen that he was fired for lying about going to the conference in Sydney, when he was really on the Walkabout.  He tells her to open the case.  Her look when she sees the knives was just like everyone on the Island in that very episode.  Hurley: "Dude, who is this guy??"   

  • But Locke explains how he wanted to go on his adventure in the outback.  (I wonder if Abbandon told him to go in this timeline as well?  It would seem that he wanted Locke to go on it before for Widmore's benefit to get him to the Island.  What would be the benefit in this timeline?  Maybe it was just "Locke's destiny" to end up going without Abbandon's guidance.  Of course then that gets into the whole "did Jacob touch him when he fell out the window" conversation too!)
  • Locke explains how they wouldn't let him go on the outback because of his condition and how he started yelling saying "don't tell me what I can't do!" It sounds like it went down exactly the same way in both timelines.   He also said that they were totally right for not letting him go. 
  • Locke tells Helen he is sick of imagining what it would be like to "WALK" down the aisle but if she needs him to he doesn't blame her.  And he said there are no such thing as miracles.  
  • Helen still objects and says that there are miracles.  The only thing she ever wanted was him.  awwwwww   She rips up Jack's card.  Nooooooooo!    He was going to FIX Locke!  
  • Anyway, Locke and Helen kiss and they're happy in love.  I don't think I mentioned this yet, but in the original timeline, Helen eventually gets sick and dies while John is on the Island (according to Abbandon).  I wonder if her fate is the same in this one?
  • And of course, I won't comment extensively on the fact that when Locke and Helen were together in the original timeline that Locke had hair and it seemed like years prior to present day Locke.   Meanwhile, Helen looks exactly the same age-wise as she did in those original timeline stories!   These are all semantics! 
The Substitute
In the final Sideways scene we see Locke coaching a high school volleyball team and then in a classroom discussing the reproductive system. Fun!  

  • John Locke becomes a "Substitute" teacher!  But it doesn't end there folks.  
  • John wanders the halls looking for the faculty room.  When he gets there we hear a very familiar voice complaining about the coffee filter.  Locke argues that he would like some Earl Grey tea.  To which this man states it is a gentleman's drink.  This man is none other than Benjamen Linus! 

  • Woa...very interesting.  This raises lots of questions.  Did Ben ever go to the Island in this timeline?  Was the Island already submerged before he got there?  Or, because the Oceanic crew never ended up there, Sayid never shot Ben causing him to be taken to the temple and submerged in their Innocence Taking waters?   But that confuses me, because wouldn't the Oceanic crew have HAD to be there to blow Jughead and submerge the Island?   Ahhhhh, but how would they have been there if they had never gone there in the first place?   An ol' Catch-22!    So perhaps the Island was submerged for another reason in this timeline and NOT jughead.    I know, we have discussed all of these potentials before, but seeing NORMAL Ben as a teacher of European History in High School gets the wheels spinning for me! 

Meanwhile in the Shadow of the Statue
Basically this storyline shows the remaining crew that traveled to the Statue mobilizing after the crazy events of Ben killing Jacob, Smokey killing lots of Ilana's people and then running off with Richard.

Inside the Statue

  • We see Ilana crying.  Ben enters and Ilana demands to know what happened.  Ben says that she wouldn't believe him but she demands anyway.   Ben tells her Locke turned into a pillar of smoke and killed all of her men.   She asks if it killed Jacob as well to which Ben lies and says yes.   I wonder if Ilana knows that he is lying.  Because apparently these RULES prevented MIB from physically killing Jacob.   
  • Ilana asks where the body is, to which Ben replies that Locke kicked Jacob into the fire.  
  • Ilana heads over the the distinguished fire and begins to collect the "ash" from the fire pit. Hmmmm...does Jacob's ash hold any significance to the ash that everyone has been using to protect themselves from Smokey?  Does Ilana just need MORE ash and figures that she shouldn't waste Jacob's?    Or does collecting Jacob's ash serve another purpose of "reincarnation" potential?  Even though we know that dead is dead on this show!   Just seemed like an interesting scene! 

  • Ben asked why Locke took Richard.  Ilana says that he is recruiting - something we'll get into in the Flocke storyline below.  But it would seem like there is more than MIB's need to get home going on.  Widmore did say that a "War" is coming to the Island.   But maybe the war is to prevent MIB from leaving the Island with the candidates! (I'm getting ahead of myself)
Outside of the Statue
We see Locke's body with a bug on his face.   Frank Lapidus has a classic line.  "He's getting ripe!" 

  • Sun and Ilana have a conversation.  Apparently, all of the "OTHERS" left and went to the temple.  Ilana mentions that now it's the safest place to be.   Sun doesn't immediately agree to go.  We find out that Ilana knows about Jin and that if he's alive and on the Island that he will be at the temple.   So, are we to just forget that Sun knew that Jin was in 1977 and she will just blindly follow Ilana? I guess so, I'm sure Jack will fill her in when she gets there.   Naturally, Jin is with crazy Claire now so I'm guessing their reunion will still be a ways off. 
  • Sun insists that they need to bury John's body.
Some Gravesite (Oceanic?)
  • Ben and Ilana carry Locke in some man-made contraption for some distance to a beach site.  They end up at a gravesite but never state if this is where the Oceanic Survivor camp was.   It looked familiar though.  The only reason I hope they are back there is because I want them to tie up that season 5 loose end of people shooting and chasing at Locke, Juliet, Sawyer and crew on their way to the Orchid and then the boat just vanishing by time travelling to Rousseau Times.  Why they would be shooting at them?  I have no idea.  But no one in this crew would have been on that boat, so it could make sense! 

  • Anyway, Ben asks why Ilana brought the body all the way to the statue.  Ilana stated that she needed everyone to see the face of what they were up against.   Ben asked what is to stop him from "changing his face"....Ilana says that he can't anymore.  He is stuck this way.  Interesting, so Smokey has to take the form of Locke now.  Why??   What happened to cause that, Ben killing Jacob?   Does that mean we will not see Christian Shephard anymore on the Island or could Shephard be a diferent entity or a "claimed" entity like Sayid/Claire since his body was missing from the coffin in season 1? 
  • Ben and Frank dig out the grave for John Locke.   The 4 of them drag John over and put him in.   Michael Giacchino's awesome "Life and Death" score plays in the background.  Ilana asks if anyone wants to say anything.   Ben eventually volunteers which leads to a very chilling eulogy and another hysterical line from Lapidus! 

  • "John Locke was a believe.  He was a man of faith, he was a much better man than I will ever be and I'm very sorry I murdered him."  to which everyone looks up at him.   Lapidus "Weirdest damn funeral I've ever been to."   Classic....I wonder how everyone will react to Ben murdering Locke?    In any case, I guess we can officially say RIP to the Man of Faith.  




Smokey Goes Recruiting

We open up this great story line from Smokey's perspective and it was AWESOME!  We heard the familiar sound but were flying all around the Island.   I don't know how they filmed this brilliant scene, but it was great and screenshots cannot even do it justice.  It seems to travel from where Flocke was holding Richard to the Barracks to check in on Sawyer (check out the reflection of the smoke in the window) and then Back to Richard.

  • After smokey heads back to Richard, there is a knife on the ground.  He forms back into Flocke, grabs the knife and cuts Richard down from the tree.  He tells Richard that it's time to talk. 
  • Flocke gives Richard some water and apologizes for hitting him in the throat and dragging him off the beach but he had to do something.   Flocke informs Richard that he has always wanted him to come with him.   MIB knew that looking like Locke would give him access to Jacob because John is a candidate (more on that in a bit), or at least WAS a candidate.  Richard doesn't seem to know what this is.  Flocke starts trying to manipulate Richard to his side by accusing Jacob of keeping all of these secrets from him, and Richard blindly following him.   "I would never have done that to you, I would never have kept you in the dark.  I would have treated you with respect.  Come with me and I promise I will tell you everything."   Richard refuses to go with him.  Flocke talks about people seldom getting a 2nd chance.   Perhaps Richard was offered this proposal back when he first came to the Island?   In any case, Richard stands his ground and refuses to go with.  
  • Then out of nowhere, Flocke sees a boy standing in the jungle with bloody arms.  It doesn't seem like Richard sees him.   WHA? HUH???  Who is that???  My initial thought was "Kid Jacob" but does that make any kind of sense at all?   Of course, maybe Jacob and MIB knew each other as children and this is some kind of ghostly appearance? 
  
  • The kid vanishes, Flocke panicks and then says "I'll be seeing you Richard, sooner than you think."  
Back at the Barracks
Flocke heads to New Otherton/Dharmaville/what have you and heads to Sawyer's residence.  Sawyer is boozing it up and listening to a song that I'm sure has relevance to the situation at hand.  
  • Good thing I have Shazam on my iPhone.  It's Iggy & The Stooges "Search and Destroy"  The lyrics revolve around the singer being the world's forgotten boy.  And lyrics like "Baby detonates for me" Runaway sun of a Nuclear A-Bomb.  Soul radiation in the dead of night.  Man, could they have found a more fitting song for Sawyer? 
  • Flocke shows up and says hello to Sawyer.  Sawyer: "I thought you were dead"  Flocke "I am"
  • Sawyer hysterically does not care that dead Locke is appearing from the grave.  He pours him some whisky and gives it to him and walks to his chair.  This dude has seen better days!  "Here's to being dead!" he toasts. 



  • Flocke - "You are taking this extremely well, that I'm here"  I can't do Sawyer justice and will just quote him directly.  "I don't give a damn if you're dead....or time traveling...or the Ghost of Christmas past.   All I care about is this whiskey.  So bottom's up....get the hell out of my house."  Good times. 
  • Flocke starts the manipulation by saying this isn't Sawyer's house and just a place that he resided here for awhile, this was never his house. (suggesting that his home is not on this Island)    Sawyer reads through the BS and knows that this is not John Locke.  Locke was a scared man even when he was pretending not to be.   He can tell this guy is not scared.   Flocke changes his angle and says that he is the person that could answer the most important question in the world.  "Why are you on this Island"  Now we're getting somewhere!!  
  • Sawyer still has to get his 2 cents in.  He talks about his plane crashing, his raft blowing up, the helicopter was riding one person too many.  Flocke explains that this is not why he was there and he can prove it.  "Well, I guess I better put some pants on!"   I love it.  I could probably sum most of this up in a couple bullets, but how can you not quote these classic lines!? 
In the Jungle
  • Flocke starts asking James why he was alone and why he isn't with his friends at the Temple.   Sawyer gets frustrated and doesn't want to talk to him anymore.  Flocke abides.  Then, the crazy ghost boy shows up again.  But this time, Sawyer can see him too!  Is it me or does he look a little older this time?  He has no blood on his arms.  
  • Flocke is shocked that Sawyer can see him.  Has this dude been haunting MIB for ages or is it recent?   Is it child Jacob?  I have already speculated above.  I guess we have to wait and see.  But Flocke does chase after him.   And eventually trips and falls.  
  • The kid says "You know the rules, you can't kill him."   Flocke says "Don't tell me what I can't do!"   Okay, 2 things.  Can he not kill Sawyer because Jacob touched him?   Can he only claim people after they "die?" (like Sayid, Locke?)   That is, if claiming is done by the Man in Black/Smokey entity.    Other thing....woaaa why is he directly quoting John Locke?  Is it because Locke is infused in his mind?  Or is there some of John Locke in him?   I'm so confused!    In any case, Smokey/Flocke seems very scared by this creepy kid! 
Back where Sawyer is
  • Richard comes out of the jungle looking totally freaked out.  He is very scared of the MIB/Smokey guy.  He tries to convince Sawyer to come with him to the Temple.  But Sawyer wants his answers.  Richard told him not to be naive and that Flocke is only going to kill him.   Sawyer argues that he'd be dead already.  Richard says he wants "all of you dead.  everyone you care about...everyone and he won't stop...."  Flocke shows up and Richard runs away.   So perhaps MIB is trying to recruit all of the remaining survivors just to kill them off and beat Jacob at his game?   Perhaps everything he says at the end of this episode is true except the fact that he wants to bring Sawyer with him.   We'll get there.
  • In any case, Flocke acts like he never saw a kid to Sawyer.  What is the point in that?  To avoid questions? 
  • In any case, they move on to the answers! 
Wandering the Jungle
  • Sawyer references his favorite book like he did in Season 3's "Every Man For Himself".  The book is John Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men.  Flocke says that the book is "a little after my time."  The book was written in 1937, signifying that MIB has been there a long time.  Of course we know the Black Rock was in the 1840's (or somewhere around then) and he was there then too. 
  • Sawyer talks about the book again, just like he did to Ben, about George and Lenny in the woods and George shooting Lenny in the back of the head.   He then pulls out a gun and points it at Flocke.  "I'm wondering what will happen if I shoot you"  Well James, I'm sure you'd get freaked out when the bullet bounces right off of him! 
  • Flocke talks about being trapped and was once a man like James.  He forgets what freedom feels like.  But he says he still knows Joy, Pain, Anger,  Fear, Betrayal, Loss of a Loved one.   This seems like all of the things that the Smoke Monster can read from a person.    He instructs Sawyer to shoot him but insists that he's so close to the answers.    Sawyer gives in.   
  • So this goes along with my (and probably several others) theory that Jacob bestowed this Smoke Monster role on Locke and he has been stuck that way for many years.   Perhaps he is supposed to be a guardian/protector of the Island or the security system for the temple, but it seems he has gone rogue.  But we can speculate for hours on end.  Let's keep heading towards the big reveal! 
The Cave and Its Surroundings

We arrive to a cliff on the beach with a long long ladder heading downward to a cave.  Sawyer, not trusting Flocke, refuses to go down first.  Flocke agrees to do it.   It's a crazy journey down as step after step the ladder keeps breaking on Sawyer.  Even the rope ladder.   But this had to be a lot of fun filming.  I'm sure there was lots of Blue/Green screen but it looks amazing.  Flocke ends up saving Sawyer and gets him down (though I wonder how he'll get him back up!  As Smokey??? 
  • When they get in the cave, we see a scale with a black and white stone on each side.  Ahh the stone symbols.  Flocke takes the white stone and throws it into the ocean, calling this an INSIDE JOKE.   I laughed.  But this could symbolize a lot.   First of all, we should assume White = Jacob and Black = MIB.  The scale tipped in MIB's favor when the white stone was taken off.  Perhaps this was because Jacob is dead.     But, let's harken back to the first time we saw black and white stones.  It was with Adam and Eve season 1 in the cave.  Interesting.  Another cave, another set of black and white stones.    
  • Let me just take a wild guess here.  Maybe ADAM is the Man in Black's body and his wife was Eve.   Maybe Jacob had a hand in their death's?   And maybe the Man in Black's eternal struggle for revenge has something to do with Jacob's hand in his wife's death.   MIB talks about still feeling a sense of LOSS.   Seems to tie in nicely, right?  Oh please, hold down your applause, I'll be signing autographs after the show!  Thank you thank you! 
  • Sawyer asks if that was why he was brought down here.  And alas, it is not.   Locke takes him into the next dark room and "ILLUMINATES IT" with a torch.  (Carlton Cuse tweeted on Tuesday to watch the episode as "number" of answers will be "illuminated"  Little did we know that he gave us answers right in plain sight!) 
  • How do we begin discussing what we learned here?   Yes, we all assumed that Jacob had been meddling with the Oceanic Survivors.  Some even speculated that they might be replacements to guard the Island.   All of this seems to be true.  But seeing it all written on the wall like this with names crossed off and then THE NUMBERS attached to 4 - Locke, 8 - Reyes, 15 - Ford, 16 - Jarrah, 23 - Shephard, 42 - Kwon.....well let me just say WOW!    Jacob has a thing for numbers, MIB says.   There you have it friends, there is your answer to the numbers!  Love it or hate it, but it is still a good time.   Does that answer why Hurley won the lottery with them?  Maybe.  Why the coordinates brought the French Team to the Island?  It's a stretch.   Why DHARMA was putting the numbers on the Hatch and entering it into the computer?  errrr Maybe.   But, these numbers have been tied to these Oceanic Crew for some time now.    Maybe there are more answers coming with the numbers.  But it was still crazy.  Note: Kate's name was not included in the numbers and we don't know which Kwon they are referring to.   Another note:  Remember in season 3 when Pickett said Jack wasn't on Jacob's list?   What did that mean if he was a candidate all of the time?  One more note:  Jack's seat on Oceanic 815 was 23B...coincidence to his number?  They don't all match up though as Locke was sitting in the row behind Jack.
  • I am going to attach a bunch of screenshots of the Cave Walls here.  See what you can find.  I spotted Claire Littleton on there but crossed out.  Charlotte Lewis is on there somewhere (maybe not in these pictures but I read that).   Gary Troupe (author of the screenplay Hurley was reading, died in the jet engine explosion on 9/22/04 and is an anagram for Purgatory) is there.  Also check Dark Ufo's analysis for speculation.  Tons of others:

  • Did Jacob bring all of the 815ers to the Island and mark them off as they died or he deemed them not worthy?   Very interesting and will be interesting to hear Jacob's side of the story.  As we are only hearing MIB's right now. 
  • All of the people on the wall are candidates to be protectors of the Island.  The Man in Black suggests that it's to protect from NOTHING.  The Island needs no protection.   
  • MIB goes on his rant about how Jacob brings all of these people the Island.  (harkens back again to the season 5 finale conversation with the Black Rock crew "you brought them here"  "it always ends the same" "it only ends once")   Sawyer claims to have never met Jacob.   Flocke guarantees they have met before.  Probably as a child when he was very vulnerable, Jacob came in to point Sawyer in a direction PUSHING him to the Island.  Pushing EVERYONE to the Island.  At this point they start showing Jacob touching all of these people like we saw in the season 5 finale.  Sawyer was at his parent's funeral about to write the letter to Locke's father Mr. Cooper/Mr. Sawyer about how he's going to kill him.   His pen ran out of ink and Jacob gives him a pen to finish the letter.   
  • "That's why you're here, that's why ALL of you are here"  Our suspicions confirmed.  Jacob's meddling made everyone destined to be on that flight.  Did he touch anyone besides these 6?   Well considering he touched both Kwons, I would think yes.   It must be everyone on that wall. 
  • Flocke gives Sawyer 3 options.  1.) Do nothing and possibly his name will get crossed off (ummm isn't Jacob dead?)  2.)  Accept the job and become the new Jacob.  Protect the Island from NOTHING!   3.)  "we can just get the hell off of the Island and never look back"    How?  "we can do it together"   So, what do you say James?  Are you ready to go home? 
  • Sawyer considers his options then says "Hell yes...." 

We see a look of satisfaction in his decision:


BOOM LOST!!! 

Well kids, now THAT is how a final season episode is supposed to be done!  I loved it and I'm sure I missed tons of stuff to speculate, but I do have a day job to get to!  We definitely need more information on the candidate business, like Jacob's side of the story.  It seems that the sides are shaping up and we'll have our 815ers against each other for some time.  Surely they'll all team up by the end though.   But whose side is the right side?  Which side will they support in the end?   Widmore talks about the wrong side winning.  Which one is the wrong side?    And, the more I think about it, the more I am loving my Adam and Eve theory.   It is probably 100% bogus, but it makes sense right!?   If the inside joke has to do with Black and White stones, then this totally makes sense.   Where is our MIB back story!?  I want it now!

The next centric episode will follow along the lines of the season one centrics again.   I will not spoil for anyone who doesn't know, but it will give you an idea of what story lines we will be visiting next week. I will be there in all my writing glory to recap another fantastic episode with very little sleep.   Until then, I look forward to all of the discussions we will have on this blog.  There are bound to be some good theories out there.  Let's have 'em!   Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and I'll see you next week!  NAMASTE! 

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175 comments:

Mike V. said...

One minor flaw in my Adam and eve theory. The bodies were only decomposing for 30-40 years in jack's estimate. Well, maybe mib time traveled too! LOL

MJ said...

Was too tied up last week to keep up with all messages - but did we ever get an answer on the sonogram date ? Because I watched the enhanced version last night and they stated when Kate got in Claire's cab that she was almost 8 months pregnant. So her length of pregnancy has not changed from the original timeline.

MJ said...

I don't think that Locke's father pushed him in the sideways - Helen stated that they should just get her parents and his father and go get married. So I doubt that they would invite the man who pushed him out a window to their wedding.

Mike V. said...

MJ, Greg Nations (continuity guy on the LOST producting team) confirmed tht it was a mistake. he left it ambigious to which ONE of the numbers in the date was incorrect, but I think it was an attempt at a joke! lol


Good catch on Helen commenting on Locke's father. I totally missed that. (of course, frantically taking notes and then typing up a recap right after makes me miss stuff!!) So, then was Locke destined to become paralyzed? Maybe he still gave his kidney but then there were complications afterwards or something? Interesting...

Liz said...

Definitely a great episode and great recap Mike!

Here are some of my thoughts.
- I think 42 Kwon is for Jin. Reasons? Was the Ms. Paik reference in LA X a clue? I think so. Also all of the numbers are guys - no Claire, no Kate, and I'm guessing no Sun. Alsooooo the Other Others (who Claire shot) said Jin could be one of them? Maybe "them" is referring to Jacob's candidates. So I'm going with Jin.

- Speaking of candidates didn’t Ilana mention something about Frank being a candidate in S5? I can't remember the entire context of her line - but if he is a candidate - why didn't we see his name? Maybe number 108? Ha, who knows!

- Thoughts on the young boy vision. I was with you Mike that this could be some vision of Jacob at a different age. But I also thought of Aaron as well - although if it was Aaron that would mean some crazy plot twists.

And one last side note - did anyone think "Cliffs of Insanity" when MIB and Sawyer were on the ladder. Princess Bride reference - that's totally what I thought - even down to the ladder breaking. Good times.

Mike V. said...

Thanks Liz!

Interesting on the 42 = Jin theory...and factoring in the Flash Sideways. I just don't know enough about the sideways world to agree or not yet! lol interesting on the "ONE OF THEM" comment though. I like that! they didn't even say "COULD BE" they said "he IS one of them" And of course..all of those names (plus Kate) were on that list. Interesting with the no female thing....but we did see Littleton on the wall...just not one of THE numbers attached to her.

Yes they did mention Frank being a candidate...and he might be...but they just didn't know for sure in season 5 finale so they brought him along. But he certainly might be!

I also heard similar theories on it possibly being aaron...i'll have to think about this for a bit and post more later!

don't think i know about "Cliffs of Insanity" but that sure was one insane cliff! LOL

Got a meeting I'll post more later! Thanks for commenting!

davidsalako said...

What a great episode and great write up as usual Mike V.!
Surely Terry O'Quinn should be up for some awards later this year!
His portrayal of Flocke is creepy and that of alternate Locke is kind of bittersweet.
Great to see the black and white stones again.
BTW alternate Locke's cell 'phone was black and white to as well as Sawyer's under the floor boards jewel bow - black and white to. Any meaning? Who knows with this show!
Funny to see the usually calm and collected Richard Alpert so scared and running helter skelter. His history with this Flocke entity/persona sounds intriguing. Perhaps there goes my Alpert theories?!
Flocke seems to be lying saying there is nothing special about the island - time traveling, strange electromagnetic properties, miraculous healings, ghostly apparitions, zombies, Smoky...come on!
Blond boy ghost was interesting - Jacob? Aaron??

davidsalako said...

...Sawyer's under the floor boards jewel box..

Mike V. said...

Thanks David! I think they just have to give all the awards to Terry, Josh and Emerson this year! lol good calls on the black/white themes!

agreed MIB is keeping some of the facts from Sawyer...because his intent is to leave the island. And if he leaves...does he leave as John Locke and live out his life that way? interesting.

Yeah the more i think about it being aaron the more it could make sense....it could be a way to explain Taller Ghost Walt appearing on the Island if it is Taller Ghost Aaron! I was joking with some people at work...what if this is all about 2 kids playing a video game and they hop into the game to instruct the players on the rules! LOL God I would hate this show if that's what it was!!

The more and more i think about it, the more I'm convinced that Jughead didn't sink the island. if the LOSTIES never came to the island, they would never travel back in time and cause the incident...so something else must've happened right? yikes...this is nuts.

oh yeah...also on DarkUFO, apparently they recognized some names of the US Military guys on Jacob's wall. So they were probably recruited as Candidates too? crazy.

Jase said...

Great recap. A few comments:

- As far as Locke being bald while Helen looks no older. Perhaps Locke just started shaving his head. I always assumed that is what he did as opposed to being truly bald (true total baldness is not all that common.)

- Randy Nations is definitely a d**chbag, but even if Locke had the best boss ever he would have been fired for what he did. So I couldn't feel too bad for him there.

- I agree that the boy in the jungle looked a little older the second time we saw him.

- When the boy says "You know the RULES, you can't kill him." I assumed he was still talking about Jacob. As though MIB's supposed "loophole" was not a loophole at all, and he still broke the RULES by bringing about Jacob's death. Didn't occur to me that he may have been talking about Sawyer -- which also makes some sense.

- When Flocke acts like he didn't see the boy, I assumed he said that because Sawyer had just lied to him that he was talking to "noone" -- when he had been talking to Richard. Flocke's way of saying he knew Sawyer was lying.

- Interesting theory about Adam and Eve, but I agree with the previous poster about the time of decomposition. Doesn't quite fit. But you never know with the crazy way time works on this island!

Keep up the good work!

MJ said...

We also see a pic of John and Helen in Hawaii - guessing by the outfits ! LOL

Loved Helen's shirt - Peace and Karma I think it said.

Thought it strange that Sun did not say one word at Locke's funeral. She did live with him for months on that island, and he did provide food for all of them. Just saying.

I'm sure we ALL thought young Jacob when that boy appeared to Flocke. But when the kid talked about the rules I also wondered if he was telling Flocke that it is known he/MIB broke the rules by killing Jacob ! It was almost ominous like a warning of punishment to come.

Flocke also states 'it's just an island' - which Darlton has been saying all off-season when asked about what mysteries will be answered.

FOund it veeery interesting that Kate name was not attached to the numbers. Like she has another role but not that of candidate.

Beginning to think that Eve is Kate now. They showed her very sad and guilty last week, and she came back only to save Claire so that Aaron could be with his mom - the very definition of sacrifice. And at this point I can see Sawyer sacrifing to stay and be Adam - he has nothing to go back for. But Jack as well - Jack seems to no longer want to be a 'saver' - but can see him just staying to be Adam to save them all.

Jase said...

One other thing -- agree that Lost is the best show ever, and the decision by ABC and Team Darlton to work out a definitive ending date for the show has made for some fantastic TV!

Anyone know if Team Darlton has any post-Lost projects in the works?? These guys definitely know how to spin a story. I would think that anything they come up with would be TV gold to network execs! (Similar to Chris Carter or Joss Whedon -- although lets hope they fare better!)

Mike V. said...

Thanks for the props Jase!

Yeah it's a good point with Locke....but in the pilot episode he had grey hair on the sides and back...and then started shaving it on the island. Jack refers to him as a lonely old man in season 5's "The life and death of jeremy bentham" when he was with helen it seemed like he was supposed to be a bit younger...maybe 40s/50s But you could be right, and I'm not gonna look too much into it.

Agree Locke would have been fired regardless! But gotta love Hurley calling Randy the D word LOL Also...he referred to himself as Hugo in sideways land...maybe he never got the Hurley nickname. Perhaps in Hurley's centric episode we'll get information on the name. I never saw it as a big mystery but people have brought it up on this blog and the enhanced LOST eps made a point to bring it up too in the past!

Yeah..i just assumed the boy was referring to Sawyer...but the more i read...it seems like HIM could have been about someone else....Jacob...or even something else. We'll see! ahhh touche' on Sawyer lying about not talking to Richard and Locke's comment. Good stuff

As for adam and eve - I WAS the previous poster (the author of the blog)...i debunked my own theory! LOL

I heard Team Darlton are taking a break from each other after LOST because they have seen more of each other than their wives and families....they need a break. But they definitely want to team up in the future!

MJ - Yeah, that picture was with Locke and Dad too....it does look like hawaii...agreed! Funny about Helen's shirt. Didn't notice it!

No comment on the Sun thing....she's just a weird bird! LOL I mean...she left her kid off the island!

Good point about Darlton and the "it's just an island" but we all know crazy things are happening on that island! But yeah...we'll never get a "what is the island?" question actually answered to specificity.

Kate might be on that wall...we just didn't see it. I figured it was a wall of candidates that get crossed off when they die or are no longer deemed worthy. The 6 that are still not crossed off just happen to be THE NUMBERS. So there has to be some meaning to that! And there has to be a reason that kate wasn't one of the numbers.

Jack has a redemption arc to finish on that island. he has nothing to leave the island for.....i think his endgame is that of SAVIOR. He IS the hero and I think we have to see him resume that role in the final episodes. whether that means they are Adam and Eve...I can't say!

Thanks for the comments guys! I'm sure there are more now that I've written this!

Jenn said...

Perhaps Jack wasn't on Jacob's list because "Shephard" was Christian Shephard. I also think that Jin is the Kwon on the wall because all of the other candidates are men. Even the candidates mentioned in S5 and S6 (Lapidus, Richard) were all men as well. Wild thought, but rather than good/evil or light/dark, could Jacob and the MIB possibly represent man/woman (just like Adam and Eve)? Maybe that could tie into the infertility explanation somehow?

Mike V. said...

Jenn,

Richard was mentioned as a candidate before??? I missed that I think.

Interesting on Christian Shephard although Christian is dead...and being dead seems to cross you off the list. (which makes me wonder why Miles is on the wall and crossed off!)

it would definitely be strange if Jacob/MIB represent adam and eve. The only thing that I can tie to the infertility problems on the island though is The Incident or THE PURGE. Things seemed to be fine in 1977 as Juliet delivered a child just fine. And of course...isn't Tawaret the Egyptian God of Life or Fertility? So maybe when that was destroyed it was related. Of course Ben said that the statue was destroyed when he got there. Sun asked if she was supposed to believe him and Ben said "probably not" but i wouldn't see why he had a reason to lie lol

but yeah...there could be something Jacob/MIB related with the infertility issues. But I don't think I'd be content with them BOTH being Adam and Eve! lol That may not have been what you were suggesting though.

As for the candidates all being men...yeah that makes sense. but we did see Claire and Charlotte's names crossed out on the wall...so they were considered at some point!

this crazy show!

But I think someone pointed out that THE OTHERS called Jin "ONE OF THEM" And "THEM" could possibly be candidate.

davidsalako said...

@Jenn
Interesting comment about the possibility of the man/woman theme. I had entertained that thought to during the season 5 finale scene between MIB and Jacob. Something about MIB's dialogue reminded me of a female perspective. Don't ask me why!
I think Jin is the Kwon on the list - hence his "many lives" escaping from certain death on so many occasions. LOL!
Ilana knows a lot about the island!
Sun not saying anything at Locke's "funeral" was strange but perhaps not unreasonable. Not sure what she would say from her perspective. I don't recall too many scenes with her and Locke having long conversations.

Ian said...

Agreed, Mike! This was a WOW! episode!

About the island sinking...I seem to recall the producers saying that the island didn't necessarily sink immediately after Jughead detonated. It could've been at a later date, which would've given Ben time to leave the island. Does that mean that in the flash-sideways he's still lost his innocence? While he doesn't appear to be evil, he looks like he's probably an annoying co-worker, and it's not hard to imagine him being a teacher all the students hate. I can't wait to see where else they go in the flash-sideways storyline!

By the way, my brother recognized that lady from "Tricia Tanaka" right away, so I'm pretty sure it's the same person.

Now that we've seen this kid appear to Smokey/MIB/Flocke, it opens up a lot of possibilities. We often chalk up ghostly appearances and apparitions to "the smoke monster," but now we see that sometimes they appear to him too. Clearly there's more than one entity on this island that appears to people.

Gotta run, but I'm sure I'll think of more to say later!

Mike V. said...

Ian, yes they did suggest that about the island...and now I'm becoming more convinced of it! I don't think he HAS lost his innocence...because Sayid never would have gone back and shot him sending Ben to the temple and put in the healing spring.

Yeah...i have heard other people recognize the lady too. I spotted her right away and tried to remember where I knew her from. So weird that I knew it was the same lady but then when looking at the pics, they looked a little different lol

I actually have never associated the GHOSTS with the Smoke Monster...i have always thought they were 2 different things. we knew that smokey could take the form of dead people...but we've been seeing GHOSTS off of the island and appearing to people WHILE smokey was off doing other things. But i thought it was interesting that even Smokey sees these visions. I think the one question that is still out there is about Christian Shephard and where does he fall? GHOST, SMOKE APPARITION, BOTH or Dead Body CLAIMED by Smokey? I dunno....but if he was a smokey apparition...he can't be anymore because Smokey is STUCK looking like Locke now. Which makes me think Christian is something else.

David...yeah Ilana does seem to know a lot about the island...everything from The Incident onward has seemed to indicate that she has been on the island before and she's been working for Jacob.

Mike V. said...

okay..maybe i exaggerated about the "NEVER" part with Smokey and the Ghosts....at one time I did associate Christian appearing to Jack off island as Smokey related because the "smoke alarm" went off. But that did seem rather convenient!

The point is...Jacob has acknowledged these ghosts appearing to Hurley and called it a GIFT....and Jacob has appeared to hurley as a Ghost....so all of THAT was clearly something different than the Smoke Monster!

Mike V. said...

Doc Jensen

Mike V. said...

Interesting from Doc Jensen:

" ARE YOU THINKING WHAT I'M THINKING? We know from season 1 that Boone Carlyle's mother, Sabrina Carlyle, owned a massively successful wedding business, and that Boone served as the company's chief operating officer. Methinks the Carlyle family biz will play a role in solving Helen's catering crisis…. "

Of course, that would require a Boone-Centric episode wouldn't it (since we already got Locke's)? lol But I could still see something like this happening.

Mike V. said...

I can't believe i missed for another straight week that the sideways character looked in a bathroom mirror! Although Locke didn't experience any deja vu...he did get inspired to call Jack Shephard before he hung up.

Mike V. said...

I read/heard in a couple places now that Locke's alarm clock sounded like the alarm in the swan hatch. Interesting..i'll have to rewatch that!

Doc Jensen thinks Sawyer is pulling a long con on smokey and really is trying to gain as much information as he can before turning the tables. not a bad thought!

Anonymous said...

FTP (First Time Poster)

Since I just came back from Hong Kong, I have a Chinese take on our remaining "Candidates" and their unique numbers. The Candidate with the worst number - 4 - Locke, has bit the dust (The number four, according to Chinese lore, has no end points at four different positions, and should be avoided at all costs.)
Our good buddy Hugo, has the best number by far, the number 8, (two full circles of life, no end points, and extremely lucky).

Sooooooo, based on my jet-lagged induced, far eastern number analysis - Hugo will be the island's Savior and/or the last man standing.

Good thing I took that tour in Hong Kong........

Brian said...

i like the idea about the long con, sawyer is the only guy on the island good enough to do it. i also wanted to get thoughts on the island being underwater. i don't get it. if the bomb went off, then the houses and such would have been destroyed, there is no way lost vegas would have survived. and yet under the deep blue there it was completely intact. doesn't make sense. also i was curious as to why jacob's body would burn up so quickly. i mean it was gone when smokey turned back into locke. something fishy is going on with that. thoughts?

Liz said...

A noticed a comment in Doc's recap that caught my eye and would be good for our Smokey/Christian Shephard discussion.

If Ilana is correct, if being key, than MIB is stuck as FLocke. Therefore, he couldn't be Christian Shephard, at least NOT the Christian Shephard that Sun and Lapidus encountered in a destroyed Dharmaville post Ajira 316 crash.

Thoughts?

Timothy said...

My favorite episode from Season 2 is "The Long Con" - smart, deliberate, cold. If Sawyer actually has this in mind, sign me up. Excellent theory by Jensen.

My thoughts on the 'claimed' people: they are the MIB's rebuttal to Jacob's 'Others'. Christian and Claire (and maybe now Sayid) do his bidding. Maybe more when Smokey can't be two places at once or cross the ash (like, I don't know, hang out in the cabin and tell Locke he needs to move the Island).

I also really enjoyed Doc's take on Sideways Locke - is this the life he should have been leading? Less angry, more of a Man of Science (and sports)? Is MIB correct that Jacob's meddling is NOT a good thing?

Mike V., as always, your hard work is appreciated. Excellent work this week on the first truly great episode of Season 6.

Steve said...

I had tons of thoughts after watching the episode last night, but I'll only share a few (since most are strange/don't make sense).

First, what do the numbers beside the people's names mean? My first thought was seat number in the plane, since everyone on the wall (even though crossed out) seems to have a different number, which would make sense for a passenger list (though again, there is the problem of Locke, as well as the fact that planes have row/seat numbers).

Second, the origin of the numbers. Now, bear with me here, but I'm going to go off my rocker for a bit. I think this has the feeling of "All good things" from the next generation. That is to say, since the island had energy stores large enough to effect space/time, maybe that, combined with a nuclear explosion, did. What I'm saying is, maybe the nuke actually CREATED the temporal/crazy effects of the island, and sent effects rippling forwards and backwards through time. That would mean good old Jack, with his intentions to save them all, might have been the one who cased everything. It also means "the incident" might have in fact been caused by the bomb itself (the explosion might not have actually destroyed anything, it might have just been sucked in by the energy and caused a crazy temporal chain reaction). The numbers, in this case, would have actually originated by the serial number Dharma put on the hatch, by forcing those numbers through time to influence history. In that case, the flash sideways is actually reversed, where the plane landing safely is the timeline where the bomb didn't go off (the island may have sunk by perfectly natural means, since it would not have the same special powers) and the timeline on the island is the one where the bomb did go off. Jacob, in this case, is as confused about the numbers as the rest of us since those numbers have been influencing the island since he got there, despite not having been created until the 70, so his wall of names might be his trying to determine significance.

The only other thing I'll mention is the phoenix connection. As soon as Jacob died and was burnt to ashes I thought of the phoenix (a bird who burns up then is reborn). When the kid (who looked exactly like Jacob) showed up, I figured that's what it was, that Jacob would be reborn from the ashes (since the kid looked exactly like Jacob).

MrsG. said...

I noticed the name Mattingly on the wall (wall screenshot 7), number 10. His name was crossed off.

Found the below on this site:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Mattingly

Mattingly was an Other wearing a United States Army jumpsuit The group attacked Juliet and Sawyer in the jungle on the Island in 1954 and, armed with a machete, Mattingly was ordered by Widmore to cut off Juliet's hand. As he was about to do so, Locke attacked Mattingly with a rock. Mattingly recovered and was about to kill Juliet with the machete, when Locke hurled his knife into Mattingly's side. Mattingly collapsed and died. Locke then pulled the bloody knife out of Mattingly's dead body.

Given that Widmore was wearing a uniform with the name "Jones" on, it is likely that the uniforms were stolen, so it is likely that Mattingly is not his real name.

Still an interesting bit of information....

Steve said...

Also, the end exchange brought up some pretty strong similarities to the hatch. The whole "Do you want to sit here protecting the island from nothing" parallel to hitting the button for nothing, and the "It's just an Island" "It's just a button" parallels can't be ignored.

Weasel said...

about Liz's post.... in Dharmaville 2007 post 316 crash: Didn't Christian tell Sun and Lapidus to wait there for Locke to show up (which was FLocke at this point)?

Trent Frazier said...

I too believe that the island sank many years earlier, probably in 1954 when the young Charles Widmore was on the island. That would mean Widmore was killed as a young man and never fathered Penny, which means Desmond never met her, leaving Desmond to live a life free of the Widmores, resulting in him being on the plane in the Flash-sideways for some other reason.

On another note, my buddy Eddie had his fifteen seconds of fame in last night's episode! He played the guy who delivered Locke's case of knives to his front door. It's too bad he was so far in the background, but it was still exciting. Now he's trying to get a part on the new "Hawaii Five-0"!

Liz said...

@Weasel I think that was his message. Who knows where Christian Shephard stands, but it seems he's aligned with MIB/FLocke but a separate entity still

cdstedman said...

The kid. Not Aaron or young Jacob but someone/something else. Ben once said “everyone answers to someone” when telling Locke we wasn’t the true leader of the others. The kid is possible the one MIB and Jacob answer to, the one who makes the rules they must follow.

And my crazy “I want to go home” theory of the week. I think the island is his home. It’s just not in the right place/time/dimension that he wants it to be in. Think of the island as a giant Tardis for all you Dr. Who fans. The cave they went to was not Jacob’s it was MIB’s and the candidate is not someone to replace Jacob but to turn the frozen donkey wheel. He had Locke turn it and didn’t get the results he wanted so he crossed out his name and now he’s on to the next candidate Sawyer.

Weasel said...

maybe "Littleton" is Aaron? Crossed off when he left the island?

Anonymous said...

I haven't posted for a long time, but here are a few thoughts:

1. The "he" that the boy told the MIB that he couldn't kill is Richard. The boy first showed up when the MIB was upset with Richard for not wanting to join him and I had the sense that he was going to kill Richard. I don't think the MIB wanted to kill Sawyer as he was still trying to recruit him. Although the Others are all "special", there is something even more unique about Richard in that he does not age.

2. I think the game between Jacob and the MIB continues until the candidate decides the winner. I don't think that the candidate will necessarily replace Jacob because then I think the MIB would still be stuck. I think the MIB is trying to manipulate the candidates to finish the game in his favor.

3. I am sure that this has been discussed, but it seems that in the flashsideways, each character has the opposite personality (Hurley being lucky, etc.).

4. It was interesting that the MIB didn't cross off Sayid's name if he was the one who "claimed" him, but maybe this is part of his manipulation of Sawyer since Sawyer knows Sayid is still alive.

Michelle said...

HUGE QUESTION:
Does anyone remember the young couple who were bit by a spider and buried alive? Probably has no significance, but it was sooo weird. never saw the couple before that episode and no mention of them since!!

carolinski said...

I was wondering ... was Flocke really telling the truth?
Is he really explaining things, or is he just manipulating Sawyer, trying to get his way - whatever that may be.
Richard told Sawyer that Flocke was 'recruiting', so I didn't quite believe him when he said Sawyer was some kind of candidate to replace Jacob. Is being a candidate the real reason their names are on the wall? Maybe he is a candidate for something. But for what??

(damn, I tought my English was kind of OK, but when trying to explain my thoughts, it's frustrating not to be able to really say what I want!)

cdstedman said...

Michelle, you’re talking about Nikki and Palo. They were introduced with poor fanfare at the beginning of season 3 and promptly killed off in the Expose episode. By the way, if you look at the screen cap of 15 – Ford it looks like Nikki’s name is crossed out to the left. Razzle Dazzle

Tom from Toledo said...

It seems that Locke was not pushed out of a window by his father in this new reality. There's the picture of him and his father posted in his cubicle when he goes back to work after the Australia trip, of course. However, his fiance said something about the wedding and who would attend, and I'm about 99% sure she said her parents and his father would be going. I doubt Locke would invite his father after he paralyzed him.

It's also really interesting that (so far) in every "sideways" flash we've seen the characters' lives seem to be much better after the flight. Kate escapes and makes a connection with Claire, helping her learn to trust people. Claire names Aaron and decides to keep the baby. Locke is happily engaged and finds a great job thanks to Rose and Hurley. Hurley is "the luckiest guy alive." And so on.

It's interesting that without Jacob interfering with their lives they all seem much happier. Seems the whole "free will vs. destiny" debate (MIB vs. Jacob?) is back.

davidsalako said...

I have to re-watch the episode but I don't think alternate Locke actually looked in the mirror that he sat in front of. I noticed the mirror immediately but do no recall any direct staring at his image like Kate and Jack had done.
I may be wrong.
Also, I am fairly certain that Hugo/Hurley is the true hero of this tale. Much like Sam in the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy.
The possibility of a Sawyer "long con" will definitely be redeeming for his character! Putting those skills to good use for a cause that could (hopefully) benefit many.
However, if Sawyer is "turning evil", perhaps the lines drawn on this show aren't so clear cut and are "shades of grey" as opposed to "black and white"?
\Maybe that is why alternate Ben and Locke discuss "Earl Grey Tea"! I know, it's a stretch! :-)

horseman said...

Great job once again Mike. Your summary plus the comments make this the best Lost blog.

The Smokey-cam made my day. Awesome stuff.

Weasel said...

I too think that James is up to something. I see some sort of con coming...

Mike V. said...

Yikes...I go away for 4 hours and look what happens! lol crazy meetings, don't they know it is LOST ANALYSIS DAY?

I will give one big thanks to all the props and welcome to first time posters!

I'm in agreement with all the LONG CON talk....if that's what sawyer is doing...AWESOME. If not, he'll come around eventually! Or everyone else will come around (depending on who is the right side to back!)

MIB telling the truth? I'm guessing he told PART of the truth, but left stuff out..same thing Doc Jensen said. We're in the end game folks...i don't think a lot of people will be lying to us. And if Ben is lying, it'll probably be stuff we already know he's lying about (like him saying smokey killed Jacob lol) But we'll see!

Island Sinking - I think I commented on this also...I'm really leaning towards the fact that Jughead didn't blow it up now (at least in flash sideways land)...because it just doesn't make sense..if Oceanic never crashed...then they were never on the island to even cause the incident. As for the island sinking...it's definitely during DHARMA times or POST DHARMA...so it's not the 1950's...it was in the 70's or later some time.

FTP Anonymous - nice insights on the Hong Kong stuff. good predictions...will it be true? I have no idea but it is as good a theory as any!

Liz, and all of the Shephard stuff. Yeah...I haven't thought about if we saw FLOCKE on Hydra at the same time as we saw Christian with Sun and Frank. But as for supporting it being FLOCKE. We know Smokey took the form of Alex when judging Ben...so I'm assuming by carrying through with having Ben kill Jacob...this caused Smokey to be "stuck" in Lockian state lol But I tend to agree, that if this is the case, then Christian has to be a separate entity. He might be "CLAIMED" by smokey since the body is missing from the coffin....he might be a ghost that has the ability to touch (like charlie slapping Hurley)....because we've seen Christian Off-island too. I just have no idea! But I would hate for Christian and Jack not to have some kind of reunion scene before the season is over because SMOKEY is stuck as Locke! lol

Mrs G...nice on the US Army references. I had noticed that Dark UFO brought up that the names were on there, but I didn't know the exact names. Thanks!

Timothy..again thanks on the props...I think the cabin had already left where the ASH was in season 4...we didn't see it in CABIN FEVER when Locke, Ben and Hurley found the cabin. But we did see it in an earlier episode in season 4 when Locke took half of the 815ers to the circle of ash but no cabin was there. Maybe the ash was been broken some time before then. But it's a good theory that CLAIMED people can cross the ash lines too. hmmm I just don't know!

Stedman, you got the nikki/paolo thing...so thanks! nice theory on the KID too being the one they answer to...of course you can go all big bang questioning on that too...so who does the kid respond to...and who does that person respond to....and what was before the big bang? LOL interesting on the GOING HOME thing too...it very well could be. I just can't imagine what he wants to leave the island for...to live his life out so many years later. doesn't make sense. I like Doc's theory that he wants to die and take everyone and the island with him. Maybe that's not what he said but it was something like that!

Tom from Toledo..you're right about Locke's father...i missed the line, someone corrected me earlier in the comments. Thanks! Yeah so far...everyone seems happier in Sideways land. SO FAR...i guess we have to keep watching to see if it stays that way.

whew there is just so many comments! I think I am going to go home from work and maybe finish looking at them. Steve, don't worry, I saw yours too but I'm processing! lol

Great discussion guys..keep it up and I'll catch up more later!

Rukshan said...

What an episode! WoW! And nice recap and comments building up here.
Don't know if anyone said this, but could Jacob have recruited MIB at some point and made him the guardian " security system " of the island and now he's gone bad but the curse still haunts him making him unable to leave the place. He may have been the security system at the time say were sitting by the beach and went bad ass at some point and was trapped in the cabin.

It also looks like Jacob and MIB were friends at some point if they were having an inside joke about black and white stones.

I have a feeling that Jack might end up being the new recruit. As he is the one that really wanted tk get out the most and his dads deeply Involved with this, may he puts in a good word for his son for the new job. Also the number 23 has always had some mystical properties to it in many movies books and tv shows.

horseman said...

If Smokey cannot kill anyone on Jacob's list, or at least those that Jacob touched, and we saw Smokey kill Ilana's crew, that means they weren't touched. I wonder how they were motivated to come to the island? They knew they were in danger, they had ash after all, but why do it?

horseman said...

I think Smokey is lying about the cave and the numbers and the list. Jacob lived in the statue and the cabin. If he lived in the cave then Ilana would have checked there. She didn't. We saw Smokey cross off Locke's name in the cave. I'm guessing he crossed off all the names. Smokey is lying to con Sawyer. I also assume Smokey can only leave and go home with a candidate but have no idea why, other than that's part of the game.

Deebo said...

Mike- killer review as always…This was the episode I have been waiting for and it didn’t disapoint, and exceeded my expectations….I think the boy in the jungle is Jacob and he is starting to manifest back too his old self…didn’t it seem like the first shot of the boy was a younger version of the next shot of him?? Maybe Flocke has to get to his end game before Jacob comes back?? (Im reaching lol)
Also there were some Dharma memebers names on the wall as well- Goodspeed and someone else…I firmly believe that Jughead did not sink the island and that it has nothing to do with the Alt. timeline….Flocke was very convincing at the end almost makes you wonder who is good and who is bad?

Deebo said...

Also the numbers are the equation for the end of the world (vanzelleti?) so the Losties associated with the numbers maybe bad?? Anyone else notice that Locke was standing in both pictures on his desk?? So that means he was with Helen before he was confined to a wheelchair…I also think that MIB has to be Locke now for good because he killed Jacob…That would explain how he was Alex in the temple and still able to go back to Locke’s form because Jacob was not dead yet

Ian said...

Do we know what happened to the rest of the 316 survivors? They followed FLocke to the foot of the statue, but they seem to have disappeared now. Maybe they're the ones shooting at Sawyer and co. on the outriggers last season? After all, wasn't an Ajira water bottle found nearby?

Mike V. said...

Ian, the rest of the 316ers didn't follow Flocke to the statue...those were the OTHERS that were with Richard. I'm not sure how many other 316ers there were but they're probably just hanging out on Hydra island lol But you could be right that it's that crew going after Locke, Sawyer and Time Traveling crew..but where would they have gotten the guns?

Deebo, thanks for the props...i actually asked the same thing about the boy looking older the 2nd time we see him. My wife thinks I'm just seeing things...so who knows? lol I also heard that Goodspeed is on the wall. Very interesting that Jacob would have considered Horace a candidate. Maybe it was Ethan but I don't know...as for the numbers...well jacob pre-dates DHARMA who I think came up with the Valenzetti Equation (also this equation was not on the actual show so I would take it with a grain of salt)... So the numbers might not necessarily be bad or signify the end of the world. But they might! We certainly don't know if Jacob is "THE GOOD GUY" just yet.

Yeah the pictures would indicate that helen was with Locke before paralysis...just like she was in the other timeline...of course...we don't know how he got paralyzed in this timeline...but it would seem she stuck with him.

horseman...Bram knew there was a war coming to the island...and he told Miles he was going to be on the wrong side if he went with Widmore. So i dunno about Jacob's touch and all of that. I don't know if Smokey can't kill people Jacob touched....it may have more to do if they're Candidates....we don't know if they're one of the same. Case in point - we didn't see kate on the wall but we know she was touched. Jacob also touched Ilana...she didn't go in the statue..but does that mean smokey wouldn't have touched her? I wouldn't necessarily think that Jacob was "LIVING" in that cave. Do you think it's the Man in Black's cave and not Jacob? I just don't see them introducing LIES to us this late in the game. I could see not getting the WHOLE truth, but not complete lies! But you never know!

Rukshan..thanks for the props...I had thought similar things and may have mentioned it in the recap about Jacob MAKING MIB the Smoke Monster. It would seem that something like that went down to create this hatred from MIB. And it might go further...that's why I suggested a Woman involved....especially since he brought up experiencing LOSS of a loved one. And whoever brought it up earlier...yes it would seem like Jacob and MIB once were friends. And Jacob even told Hurley that MIB was a "friend that got tired of my company" (just checked..it was you bringing up the friends thing!)

Yeah, it definitely could be Jack that takes on the protector role, if any do it. Lots of people are speculating Hurley too (like David may have suggested somewhere in this barrage of comments!). Who knows?? Of course none of this could matter and they could END this existence of reality and the island...making SIDEWAYS world the only existing reality! lol

Mike V. said...

Okay back to Steve....yeah i thought the same thing with the seat numbers on the plane...but had the same issue knowing Locke was behind Jack. Very interesting theory on the NUKE causing the whole existence of the MAGICAL ISLAND properties in Past and Present. Very interesting...not sure how they would explain that one on the show but it is a very interesting idea....and nice with the Phoenix stuff too...reminds me of Harry Potter lol Interesting comment on "it's just a button" "just an island" .....of course...it turned out to be more...but it could play into your larger theory you bring up. Definitely interesting! That might actually go too MidiChlorian on explaining the magical mysticism of the island....that all it was was effects through time/space/dimensions of a Nuclear Blast. I don't know if they'll take away the island's mystique from us like that! But we'll see!

Anonymous who hasn't posted in awhile...so are you suggesting that MIB should be crossing people off of the wall? I thought Jacob was the crosser-offer? lol Now, i know he crossed Locke's name off the wall, but that was because they both knew he was dead. But he also talked to sawyer about hoping his name will get crossed off as one of the options...who would cross it off if Jacob was dead? Something isn't right there.

Okay, I'm gonna consider myself caught up! I'm sorry if I missed any comments. Just bring them up again if you want me to share my pointless 2 cents! lol

Anonymous said...

(Someone who hasn't posted in a long time, again)

Yes, I think the MIB is the one who lives in the cave and is crossing off everyone's names. Since Jacob was alive on the island (not sure where the MIB was) while Locke was killed and his body brought back to the island, Jacob would've had plenty of time to cross off his name.

I am interested in everyone's thoughts on Richard being the "him" that the boy tells the MIB he can't kill.

Also, any thoughts on the "candidate" being the final decider on whether Jacob or the MIB wins whatever game they have been playing since we first met them on the beach. There is only one outcome and everything until then is just progress.

I don't think the MIB has won yet with killing Jacob because he can't do what he wants yet. I think Jacob and the MIB was/is waiting for one of the candidates to settle their bet so to speak.

Imagine the candidates as mice in a maze with two endings, but they keep dying, getting stuck in the maze, etc. before reaching either endpoint with Jacob rooting for one outcome and the MIB the other.

Anonymous said...

(haven't posted in a long time, again)

This is a reach I'm sure, but what if the plane crashed because Desmond didn't enter in the numbers in time to prevent the people who corresponded to those numbers from reaching the island? I guess what I am trying to say is was the whole hatch and number entering a type of security system to keep these certain candidates away from the island?

Maybe the island, Jacob, the MIB, etc. knew that the candidates that corresponded to those numbers were the best possibility to achieve the outcome that Jacob and the MIB have been waiting all this time for?

Mike V. said...

Anonymous - Not in Long Time Poster!

I don't know about the candidates being referees to determine the winner between MIB and Jacob. How exactly would they do it? Vote on it? Just say "I pick you Jacob!" There's lots of cheering and then BOOM LOST? LOL I just can't see it. Based on all of the names on the wall....it seems like they keep bringing people to the island and they keep repeating the same patterns over and over again...they come, fight, corrupt, destroy...always ends the same. I'm not sure if there is an endless loop with the 815ers or not....we need more info on this sideways world!! (i change my mind every week on this one though!)

it's so weird how i thought it was so obvious the kid was talking about Sawyer because MIB happened to be with sawyer at that moment. yeah...i can see that richard was around both times so maybe that makes sense. But it didn't seem like Flocke had any interest in killing Richard. But Richard commented to Sawyer that he wants to kill ALL of his friends...all of the CANDIDATES.....so that could be part of MIB's plan. if there are no more candidates...then he might be FREE. but this might be against those rules!

the whole angle with MIB being the one tracking all of these people is an interesting one...i just think they'd be putting a lot of hope in everyone to follow some crazy twists in turns in a final season of a show where we have already been twisted and turned so much. I am going with the angle that MIB told Sawyer the truth...but only part of it. Besides...Jacob DID go see these people at some point in their lives...we even saw MIB talking to Jacob saying "YOU BROUGHT THEM HERE" It seems pretty clear what they're telling us here. But...then again...MIB has been to that cave before too it seems...so maybe they both used to RECRUIT people for the island...maybe MIB just got tired of it after awhile.

interesting thought with the numbers in the hatch PREVENTING losties from coming. but we have to remember...DHARMA was not run by THE OTHERS, Jacob or MIB. Granted...apparently "GOODSPEED" was at one time a candidate....but he didn't pan out.

i dunno...i'm just rambling! Not trying to shoot down yours (or anyone's) theories...just trying to be devil's advocate! LOL Sometimes I feel like I never agree with anyone on the blog, but I just like to take the theories and apply it to everything we know to see if it pans out. I even debunked my own Adam and Eve theory moments after i posted the blog! LOL keep em coming!

but as for tonight...it's time for bed...that 4 hours of sleep has finally caught up with me. Ahh the life of a LOST blogger! :-) wouldn't trade it for the world! (or the Island!)

davidsalako said...

Continuing this "shades of grey" thought....alternate Locke's mug that he drinks presumably Earl Grey tea from while in the bathtub (I tried my best to avert my gaze!) is colored: black, white with a strip/stripe of grey in between! Check out the theme music played in the background of the scene when he takes a sip from the mug and the camera catches the colors.

Matt said...

Okay, this will be hard to explain without confusing myself, took me long enough to un jumble my thoughts.

People from Others appearing Off island in Flash Sideways would suggest that the island was evacuated during "The Incident" and something happened, they didnt go back and carried on with their lives off island..... So maybe the Electomagnetism was somehow holding the island in the places where the island moves too. Elouise did say there are pockets of this energy around the world. So maybe the explosion didnt sink the island in the way most people think, maybe it distorted the energy and knocked it out of place thus sinking. But it really dont know :D

Anonymous said...

I took the MIB's comment about not usually getting a second chance when talking to Richard as an ultimatum. The MIB didn't look too friendly to me at least while holding the machette and not liking Richard's answer when the boy first appeared. After, the MIB saw the boy, I thought his demeanor softened a bit and then he said he would be seeing Richard again sooner than he thinks.

No, I don't think the candidate is going to vote for Jacob or the MIB, but good job in trivializing yet another theory. I think Jacob and the MIB are/were waiting for one of the candidates to do something on the island (of their own free will? or because they are being moved almost like pawns for Jacob and the MIB). The MIB has gotten tired of the endless cycle of the same thing over and over, but Jacob still held out hope for a final outcome.

I think that the final candidate would settle the debate somehow once and for all between Jacob and the MIB. Tip the scale toward the black or white rock. All the candidates that have been crossed off so far have only been progress, but have failed to give a decisive answer to the disagreement.

And yes, I am aware that the Dharma people created the hatch. But I also realize that Jacob and maybe the MIB were bringing people to the island long before Dharma and manipulating the instruments of ships, etc. If you believe that Jacob and/or the MIB was controlling people's lives to bring them to the island, then don't you think Jacob or the MIB could've controlled what numbers were used for the hatch? I think it is too much of a coincidence that when the numbers that correspond to the remaining candidates weren't entered into the computer, the plane carrying these candidates crashed on the island.

I really believe that an action by one of these remaining candidates will be the defining moment that brings the show to an end and somehow "reconciles" the island events and the flashsideways.

Anyways, I will refrain from publishing any more thoughts. You reminded me why I have stopped in the past.

Mike V. said...

Oh calm down. I was just messing around a bit. No need to get all distraught. What you're saying about Richard makes sense. He did give him an ultimatum. So that makes sense if the boy was talking about Richard. My point was that it was crazy how many people interpreted it different ways.

I agree too that the candidates or a candidate will be necessary to bring the lost story to conclusion. The way I read what you said though I just took from it that they would be picking a winner. And come on, if you picture what I visualized it's pretty funny!

As for the numbers and the plane. It all makes sense but we have to remember that other oceanic people were on that wall too (Gary troupe, claire Littleton) and neither of them had the numbers attached to them. Jacob drew them to the island too.

Anyway I hope you continue to post. Like I said, I am short on sleep from putting together this blog outside of my regular day job and apologize if you were offended.

Matt and david I'll check out your comments tomorrow! Lol

carolinski said...

Horseman - I agree with you on Flocke lying to con Sawyer. It's kind of what I wanted to say, only you phrased it a lot better :-)
When I saw this scene, I immediately thought he was lying and was actually surprised when I came here (the first place I go to after watching an episode) that nobody mentioned this yet....

Davidsalako - your theory about black/white/grey: aren't you reading a bit too much in the colors of a tea mug? I'm not really shure we should over-analyze stuff this much... We're making it ourselfs a whole lot more difficult like this. But hey, it's Lost - so we never know ...

Oh, and when I saw the kid for the first time, I kind of thought about Zach, one of the kids from the tail section that was taken by the others. We saw him in the temple with the others. Wasn't he also blond? I thought the others might have sent him on an assignment to remind Flocke of the rules or someting (altough that wouldn't explain the blood on his hands, what was that all about?).
But then I read the theories here of him being Aaron. Maybe that does make more sense ...

Anonymous said...

Christian and Jack (23) Shepherd
Psalm 23
The Lord is my Shepherd...

Flight 815
Isaiah 8:15
Many of them will stumble; they will fall and be broken,
they will be snared and captured

Flight 316
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life

horseman said...

I don't trust MIB because he is desperate to go "home". We have seen him pull a long con with Locke, Ben and Jacob. He said the island is just an island. An island that travels through space and time and oh by the way has a smoke monster is not special?

Mazy said...

I was just rewatching the episode while I was drying my hair (I should be getting ready for work right now) but I need to know if someone else sees this or if I'm crazy.....
When Fake Locke is chasing the kid through the jungle right after he falls and as he slowly looks up at the kid for a second his front foot looks like the foot of the four-toed-statue. The kid is even sort of standing in the same position!
Crazy?

Mike V. said...

Good morning LOSTIES! Okay, let's see if I can stay out of trouble today on my blog! lol

Wanted to bring up one thing from Jorge Garcia and Sidekick22's Podcast (Geronimo Jack's Beard)...they read the script when Jorge gets it and try to figure out what's going on. Then the podcast is posted the day after the episode airs. It's a good time! Thanks CDSTEDMAN for linking it here a couple weeks ago. Anyway...both of them noted that it would seem like the boy was referring to MIB killing Sawyer because later on we find out he is one of the candidates. We know that MIB couldn't kill Jacob either...it was against the rules (so he got ben to do it)...why wouldn't the Candidates to succeed Jacob be any different? Richard also mentions that MIB wants to kill them all. Granted, Richard also claims to not know what a candidate is. Maybe he was just playing dumb to MIB. Anyway, I'm not saying that Jorge and his girlfriend have any extra knowledge at the time they are recording the podcast. I'm just happy to know I wasn't alone in thinking along those lines! Sometimes, I think we all try to overanalyze scenes looking for some deeper meaning. That is the beauty of LOST...it's ambiguous enough for us to do that. But sometimes, I think the simplest answer is the right one. If that offends anyone, I am sorry...but that's how i feel! And...well...to be blunt...it's my blog and I can say what i want! :-) LOL granted...anyone posting here can say whatever the want to so there goes that power trip!

Okay...david - interesting with your shades of grey observations. I have rewatched the episode but I didn't listen for the theme song playing..what was it? lol btw...the mirror thing...no he didn't look at the mirror...but we could see his reflection in it...and locke physically pushed it away when he decided to call Jack. Don't know if there is significance there. But let's see if there is another bathroom mirror scene next week! lol

Matt...i was thinking along the lines of evacuation too...and it could be right. There could have been an electromagnetic anomaly in both instances...but just jughead in one. Because if the LOSTIES don't crash on the island..they don't travel back in time and they don't try to blow up an A-bomb! They also don't warn Chang to evacuate the island.... hmmm...i wonder if the island would have gotten sucked under water if the hydrogen bomb wasn't detonated...just from the electromagnetic event? doesn't make much sense but who knows? lol but it was still definitely during or after DHARMA times when the island was submerged. Can't wait to find out what happened!

Carolinski..i pondered MIB lying..but then i just thought about us being so close to the end game and if they're going to have a big reveal like that cave and names....i have to think there is some truth to it. But like i said...maybe not TOTAL truth. There is someone else's side of the story we need to hear. (that would be Jacob!)

Anonymous with the scripture references...nice refresher on those. I'm sure putting Jack as 23 wasn't a coincidence. Of course Psalm 23 was also the name of an Eko-centric episode in season 2 as well. And Jack sat in row 23....he is very tied to that number! They're all good stuff...and I'm sure there may have been SOME foresight into the writers picking those numbers.

horseman...i agree..the island is definitely not just an island! I think MIB does want to go home...but he might be lying to Sawyer about what HOME is for him. Unless HOME is Flash Sideways land...and he would just live out his life without the Island's interference. So maybe they all have to die to make that happen. That would be just nuts though lol Here i got rambling again!

Mike V. said...

Mazy, maybe crazy maybe not! LOL I'll have to check that out. But did he have all of his toes??? LOL

davidsalako said...

@Carolinski - you're probably right about the over analysis. We do know that the show makers deliberately put in a lot of the black and white themed colors to stuff on the show though!
For instance, Claire in her black dress from the first season and now "claimed" by MIB. Coincidence perhaps but I'll take anything that can give me some answers of some sort. LOL!

plumbarius said...

On a side note,

I have noticed that the flight attendant (Cindy?,who is now part of the Others at the Temple), is on at least 3 or 4 commercials on TV. Saw her in a McDonald's ad and Direct TV ad and at least one more that I can't think of off the top of my head...Lost is good exposure to say the least!

Pretty funny...its like when you get a new vehicle and all of a sudden you notice how many others have the same model :-)

Anonymous said...

hey mike, Love your blog! This is my first comment and I have no idea if anyone has said this. but owell.

The little boy says "you broke the rules" referring to MIB not being able to kill Jacob. But MIB does infact kill jacob as he was not dead when he was pushed into the fire?

Do you agree?

Holdo

Mike V. said...

Thats pretty crazy with Cindy Plumbarius...i guess when the LOST crew came knocking on her door to re-appear on the show...she didn't hesitate to agree! I mean...McDonald's and DirecTV are great commercial opportunities...but LOST is..well...LOST!

Thanks Holdo! It's a good point and I was thinking about Locke pushing Jacob into the fire last night. They did go out of their way to show Flocke push him in. So yeah...Ben stabbed him...and he was going to die...but Flocke did push him on the fire. But the kid actually says "you know the rules...you can't kill him" he didn't accuse MIB of BREAKING the rules. Plus...Jacob told MIB that he found the loophole. i really think the kid was talking about Sawyer...and pretty much referring to ALL of the candidates.

hmm that makes me think about when smokey killed the pilot in the pilot episode...and Frank Lapidus was SUPPOSED to be flying the plane. And Ilana and Bram discussed Frank possibly being a candidate. And now i'm wondering if Eko's name was ever on that cave...and if he was...what allowed Smokey to finally kill Eko when he wouldn't repent. Crazy stuff. when i was listening to Jorge's podcast...they start discussing Ilana and Jacob's off island meeting in the russian hospital. Jacob seems to have had a plan. Maybe Ilana is there to carry out his final wishes...it wasn't to protect Jacob...maybe it was to make sure the that the Candidates (or one of them) take over for Jacob when he's gone as protector of the island.

sorry if i went off on a tangent there....but the wheels in my head started turning again! lol

cdstedman said...

All hail Mike! The blunt power tripping blog possessor!! Lol

"You know the rules...you can't kill him" I’m still waiting to find out what the rules are! And rules are meant to be broken, Witmore supposable did. If he did break them I’m interested to find out if there is a punishment or is it just a gentlemen’s agreement to the rules.

davidsalako said...

That is a really good point about MIB finishing off Jacob.
Perhaps, Jacob could have survived Ben's stabbing? Maybe Jacob isn't allowed to fight back for some reason because he believes that his chosen ones make the right choices in the end?
Frank Lapidus definitely has some part in the end game of all this. Even Bram and Ilana could sense it. He would make a great sage-like presence like the late Jacob. LOL!
Hurley's Jacob-like demeanor in the alternate world is also interesting. He is fair and nice to the nice folk (Rose and Locke) and to the d****e bags as well (Randy Nations).

Mike V. said...

lol..yep that's me! I just love killing people's theories! It's what I live for. In all seriousness, isn't that what LOST discussions are all about? Poke holes in theories and try to come up with a consensus with everyone and a better fool-proof theory? Always, an impossible mission because we don't know exactly what the writers are thinking...but that's the fun of LOST!

yeah...i really want to know about these RULES...and i want to know if TIME TRAVEL RULES are the same as these rules...because you kow..."THE RULES DO NOT APPLY TO YOU" faraday says that to desmond.

Hmmm...wait a sec....Jack was gonna jump of a bridge, sawyer got shot at in 1974 and the bullet seemed to go right past him..... Michael tried to kill himself (of course eventually he does die after fulfulling his mission).... but in Jack and Sawyer's instance...maybe FATE intervened or Jacob intervened to prevent them from dying due to their candidacy? Same with Jin and the freighter blast (which someone brought up before)... Maybe even the same with Sayid seemingly dying and then just waking up (yeah he's claimed...whatever...he's a candidate! lol) Maybe MIB physically CANNOT kill them. Maybe they're in some protective bubble. How about the helicopter crashing and no one getting a scratch on them....same with Oceanic 815 for that matter...superficial wounds. were they protected by Jacob's magic touch? Hugo...he claims to be cursed but he actually has a lot of LUCK even in the original timeline. walks across the rope bridge..it only collapses when Charlie goes across (of course charlie was on the wall but crossed off)....he confidently avoids Rousseau's trap... Well....we know what happened to Locke...so not sure how to explain that one!

but...there seems to be some tie that binds this stuff together, right?

there i go rambling again but i felt like i was onto something!

Ian said...

I saw Cindy on a commercial recently too. I went and found it on YouTube to make sure it wasn't my imagination. Check it out if you're interested.

davidsalako said...

@Mike V: reading your run through of Jacob's encounters with the 815ers, one thing I noticed that is different about John Locke is that Jacob seems to have resurrected Locke after his fall from the 8th floor. It really looked like Locke had stopped breathing. All the other Jacob encounters were not death/near death experiences. Locke's encounter is the only one that Jacob says "I'm sorry that this had to happen to you".

Mike V. said...

Very true David. That crazy Locke had a pretty pitiful existence. And it did seem like Jacob brought him back to some extent.

Something else about Locke's life that is interesting is the fact that he drew the picture of the Smoke Monster in the foster home and we saw it when Richard came to visit him. I mean...what is THAT all about? foreshadowing to his eventual fate? or maybe Smokey had his claws on John from an early age? Interesting since it would seem MIB is "TRAPPED" on the island. or HOME isn't off of the island...it's SIDEWAYS land. yikes...we need some direction here DARLTON! lol I'm all over the place!

Mike V. said...

back to what you were saying...Jacob said "i'm sorry this had to happen to you" very interesting line...is he sorry because this was all part of his ploy to get him to the island to fulfill his candidacy? Or did he have the foresight to know that he would die and Smokey would use it as a loophole?

Or something else? maybe Jacob's plan for John Locke isn't over quite yet?

in any case...a very interesting quote. And does it go back into the past further? Was that Jacob's first interaction with Locke? if he was "PUSHING" locke to the island...does it go back even further to his father being a conman? to his mother getting hit by a mystery driver while pregnant with john? to his miraculous early birth? In Sideways Land...John's father seems to be a stand-up guy. Of course..John's last name is still Locke (that of his mother's)...so maybe they still didn't reconnect until a later time. (like the kidney thing) But then maybe he stuck around and didn't con him.

Yikes...i know i know..i'm all over the place again. I just wonder where all of this is heading!

MJ said...

I'm feeling that Jacob did not fight back because he is tow steps ahead - like a big chess game. He knew MIB is looking for the loophole and probably knows some of what MIB has been planning, so Jacob set up his own blocking moves. So in the end his death will eventually stop MIB's plans. Or something like that. LOL

UnLocke seemed upset when Sawyer could see the boy - kinda reminds me of Ben getting upset when Locke
could see/hear Jacob.

If we go to where characters can cross from one line to another I think this will explain the whispers. Alot of us have long wondered if they are hearing themselves in other times. I re-watched season 1 before this final season and I swear I heard Rousseau's voice in there, as well as Sawyers.

Mike V. said...

interesting thoughts MJ. I agree that it seems Jacob is 2 steps ahead of MIB. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop and we find out that JACOB is the big bad guy and we should be siding with MIB lol I am not saying that will happen...but with DARLTON hinting that we shouldn't make assumptions, it has me thinking that way. But yeah...it would seem Jacob knew what he was doing when he allowed himself to get killed. Obi-Wan style!

interesting idea on the whispers. I would love to get that explanation this season...more than it just being associated with THE OTHERS!

I'm not sure if Flocke seemed upset....but he definitely seemed surprise that Sawyer saw the kid. I think the difference between Locke hearing Jacob (or maybe MIB) and Sawyer seeing the Kid...is that Ben DID NOT hear Jacob (or MIB)....but Flocke DID see the kid lol

davidsalako said...

@Mike V: I agree with the whispers being some sort of "echo". Pretty sure that we can hear several of the characters names and voices in them.

Jacob's statement to Locke "...this HAD to happen to you...", perhaps this indicates an inevitable incident, his ending up paralyzed will always happen to Locke, no matter what?

Speaking of which, all this talk of a LOOPhole. does that not indicate that these events are indeed a LOOP?
The same set of characters, same crossing of paths, same DNA but perhaps the only variable is their free will, world view perspective on life, the problem of evil and the ability to make choices?

Steve said...

Mike, I agree with your thought that the MIB is going to turn out to be a sympathetic character (how many times have we seen that in this series?). That said, I'm not sure Jacob is going to be the big bad guy. I think they are both trapped in roles they can't get themselves out of, forced to replay things over and over again.

The MIB has been referred to as a security system more than once. Maybe that is the role he was chosen to play. He has to protect the island, forcing him to kill certain people (people who are not approved) and not kill certain people (people on the approved list). This could be why he never seems to kill the others, despite them siding with Jacob, who he views as his enemy.

Jacob might play another role in the "defense" of the island. Maybe he is the one who must identify the good and the bad for the MIB (hence his lists) and bring people to the island that can help "save the world". Maybe the MIB has been doing it for so long, that he is tired of it all and just wants to get away (think of Desmond running like hell to get away from the island after being trapped "saving the world" for years) and thinks that killing Jacob is the only way.

To draw more parallels, Jacob could be the "man of faith" in the relationship. That is to say, the one who believes that what they are doing is worthwhile, while the MIB is the man of science, the one who has lost his faith (if he ever had it) and now merely resents the island for trapping him here, and resents Jacob for following so blindly without questioning.

Weasel said...

The "event" was the island sinking. Blowing the bomb kept the island from sinking. "It worked" means that they kept the island from sinking. 3 years after they did not crash, the side-a-ways (play on castaways) come to the island (2007) so they can time travel to go back and make sure the bomb goes off so the island does not sink.

Ha!

Weasel said...

to end my last thought...

after the side-a-ways time travel and cause the bomb to go off, that time-line never existed because the plane crashed and the Losties are none-the-wiser.

Don't worry, I am confused too after reading my post. But I have it straight in my head

horseman said...

We will have many theories because our assumptions are different, thanks to some awesome story telling and script writing. At this point in time, these are my assumptions, which mirror a lot of what others have said:
1. All candidates are protected; they cannot be killed by MIB. This is similar to MIB not being able to directly kill Jacob.
2. All candidates have a number.
3. Not everyone on flight 815 was a candidate so a lot of innocent people were killed. This puts doubt in my belief that Jacob is 100% "good".
4. Richard was given eternal life by Jacob for joining "his team". I wonder what MIB offered Richard; to me it looks like an offer was made and Richard rejected the offer. At least twice now!

Weasel said...

So, the flash sideways is the first iteration of time. Seasons 1-5 happened after the side-a-ways go back in time when they come to the island for some reason in 2007.

While back in time, Hurley wants to make sure he still wins the lottery in the alt timeline (which is the original timeline that we see), so he sets up the broadcast of the numbers that he had won the lottery with.

Then they blow the bomb which keeps the event from sinking the island, but because of that they now crash in 2004 so they have no memory of the original timeline.

Mike V. said...

woa...weasel...that last post blew my mind....i never thought about the flash sideways possibly happening BEFORE seasons 1-5 lol that would be a very interesting way to take it...except how do we explain the deja vus? LOL very interesting twist on it though.

Everyone else...you're all thinking the way i've been thinking. Steve - with MIB being the sympathetic character and tired of doing his security system job. That's kind of been my line of thinking since he said "I want to go home" but you clarified it much better than I probably have stated it! And yeah...i like the idea of Jacob being a sympathetic character as well. yeah they say the lines will be drawn by the end of the show...but like you said..we have seen so many supposed bad guys become sympathetic characters down the road. we always see both sides of the story...so it is left ambiguous to who is the "BAD GUY" i like the idea of Jacob making lists and smokey acting on the lists too.

horseman...i agree with your #3...i was kinda rambling on about that in a previous comment too. it seems that some people escaped without a scratch from the flight because of their candidacy...other people were just innocent people on the same flight...reminds me of Ben telling Jack "WHO CARES?" when Jack asks what will happen to the other people on flight 316 lol
agree with #1, 2

as for 4...yeah...i think there definitely is a back story to MIB and Jacob fighting over Richard! Maybe we'll abandon Flash Sideways for a day when we get our Richard-centric story. I think I'm going to require that!

david you could be right on Locke and his paralysis. The whole LOOP thing...i just don't know what to think of it! but the existence of 2 timelines would seem to indicate that there is some kind of loop like that. I'm not sure how else to explain it! but if anyone could explain it differently...it would be DARLTON and their Posse!

Weasel said...

YAY, I'm glad I did not just confuse myself, but got to spread the joy! Maybe not deja vu... think of Desmond.

It really is the only way to explain the time issues. If you go the other way it creates a paradox...

Weasel said...

I wonder how many people this show has institutionalized?!?!

Benjamin said...

Okay, reading through some of these comments, I have come up with my own theory of the Adam and Eve skeletons. I think calling them Adam and Eve was a clue planted in the first season. Adam and Eve were banished from the garden of Eden because they broke the rules. What if the two skeletons, somehow broke the rules of the island, and were therefore marked for banishment with a white and black stone. Just some crazy after show theory, but I think there is more than meets the eye with this one. As I was one of the people who thought it was Rose and Bernard.....or maybe I am reading too much into this.

Danica said...

I just saw the show today. Busy week. I loved it. So many things came up.

A few questions
Are the names/canidates still left on the wall the same people who were pushing the button in the Swan?

Could the island have "jumped" to the underwater we saw in the 1st episode?

Here's a thought. What do you think?

MIB says to Sawyer that they could leave the island together. Do you think the MIB will try to get Sawyer to turn the wheel so that somehow they both leave the island? Then when the island jumps it is underwater.

I read an article that interview the actor who plays Sawyer (sorry I don't know his name) and he said that his biggest question about the island was about the wheel and what it's purpose was.

Anyway , just like putting my thoughts out there so they don't keep me awake at night pondering what is really going on.

Anonymous said...

Some thoughts about "the game." Are we being misled with black/white and backgammon?

I remember an early episode where Locke seemed to overly explain mousetrap. Maybe that is the true game.

Island underwater has two options:
- It moved to the wrong place
- Gore was right.

Mike V. said...

Okay...whew...So Weasel, I like the idea, but I don't know if that is how it will end up. Not sure I understand what you mean with Desmond and the deja vu? What about Juliet hinting that it worked? I know you mentioned your theory on that...but it's like she has a moment saying "we WILL go dutch...we WILL get coffee" that would seem to implicate that it's a FUTURE timeline if anything right? lol Unless she had her facts mixed up since she happened to be dying at the same time. We'll see I guess....but when i first read your theory, it was a good time. then my damn "I must ruin everyone's theories on this blog" internal thought process started! J/K And I agree about the institutionalized comment. I seriously think something is wrong with me. Not a day has gone by since season 1 that I have not thought about LOST. (i think) I dread the first day after the show ends that I forget to discuss it! lol

Benjamen, nice theory on the Adam and Eve and the stones. There is definitely more than meets the eye with Adam/Eve...because the producers have always said that when they reveal who they are...we will know they had a plan since the beginning! lol I think that we will all find ways to prove that statement wrong even when we do find out...and even if we LIKE what we find out!

Danica...even thought we didn't see it...Locke said he put together a system of 2 people teams to push the button at the swan...so i think even some survivors we never met pushed that button (maybe even nikki and paulo! lol)

who knows with the island sinking...but yeah..when we did see the island move at the end of season 4...it did look like it SANK under water for a second. I mentioned this a couple blogs ago...who knows? It's an interesting theory! Maybe even when ben turned the wheel..THAT version of the island went under water....i know..that makes no sense because they return to the island in 2007 and it's just fine. lol but I agree with Josh Holloway (Sawyer)...i would love to know where that crazy WHEEL came from. Not sure if we'll get the answer but it would be nice!

Anonymous....yeah Locke has always been big into the board games...he explained to us Backgammon, Mouse Trap, talked about OPERATION with Jack, played Risk, Axis and Allies...they've definitely been hinting at games since the beginning. If it ends up meaning anything or just being a metaphor type thing....is yet to be seen!

funny with the GORE comment! lol

horseman said...

I don't recall seeing this comment anywhere...Sayid is one of the names/numbers in the cave and it is not crossed out. To me this means he is still "in play", not dead, and the cave is MIB's.

horseman said...

Another point that may or may not be worth further thought...the inital image of the boy had bloody arms. Why?

And why would Flocke bother chasing after the boy?

Steve said...

Ok, time for a wild new theory, waiting for the next episode. Now, this isn't an all encompassing theory by any means, but it's something I've been thinking of. Ok, so you know how white/black and games has always been a part of it? Now, remember the chess commercial? Let's look at the implications of that.

Assume, for a second, that Jacob is the white king, and MIB is the black king. The first thing we can determine from this set up is that neither can kill the other (in chess, kings cannot put each other in check mate, since they'd be moving into check themselves). This explains the "you can't kill me" comment. So, in order to win the game, they both need pieces to attack each other (and each other's pieces) with.

Now, let's say, in the past, the pieces kept killing each other. Well, what are we left with? A stalemate (with only two kings remaining) hence the "it always ends the same" "it only ends once" bit. From the MIBs (impatient) perspective, it is always a draw, but Jacob sees the end game (the so called checkmate). So, who has what pieces?

Right now, the MIB has a queen (previously Rousseau, now Claire) who moves around a lot, kills a lot, and is a general problem. The queen always seems to hunt the Others, made up mostly of Jacobs pawns, but possibly including a bishop (Richard) and a knight (Ben, I use knight because Ben tends to move erratically). Recently, it seems like Jacob's queen (Ilana, who knows more than Richard) has arrived. The MIB has collected a few more pieces (Christian, possibly a knight, and Sayid, probably a rook, for his shear destructive power).

When the MIB is going "recruiting" he's looking for more pieces to join his side (the black side, though not necessary the bad one).

The biggest question this raises, is, who are the players? I mean, Kings are important and all, but in the end, quite useless, it's the player behind the pieces that is of true importance. Kings have no more free will than pawns (which leads back into the free will questions of this show).

Does this answer the grand questions of the show? Hell no, it doesn't address what the island really is, why it's there, why it skips around, etc. That said, perhaps looking for a grand unified theory right now is the wrong thing to do. Maybe if we get specific theories about specific aspects, it will start to make sense as a grand picture later on.

Steve said...

Oh, additionally there are 64 places on a chess board, and the numbers are all within that range. Sadly, when counting them out, it doesn't make sense for starting positions of pieces or anything, but it could still be relevant.

Mike V. said...

horseman, i'm sure there is a reason we saw the boy with bloody arms. maybe it's symbolic of having "blood on his hands" like the old expression goes...or maybe it's something from MIB's past that we're going to see.

the whole sayid not being crossed off was brought up before...i guess it would depend on who really controls the wall. If Jacob was crossing people off...then there is a reason why no one was updated afterwards. of course...wouldn't LOCKE have been crossed off when he died? Unless Jacob wasn't aware....but he was aware because he told MIB that he found his loophole...hmmmm

Steve, I started reading and saw you mentioned the commercial. I just wanted to point out, and I'm sure you know, that the CHESS commerical was something imagined up by Cuatro's marketing department (spanish tv channel)...so I wouldn't rely on it being something that DARLTOn have kept in mind! LOL But chess is always a good metaphor for STRATEGIC games such as the jacob/MIB battle (or even the Ben/Widmore battle)...a chess match on a grand scale. I like your concept of recruiting players for the board and relating the King's powers to Jacob/MIB. all makes sense. Of course...if the final scene shows us Jacob and MIB playing Chess...and all along our players were just pawns on a board....i may flip out! lol

Steve said...

Actually, if what you say is true about the Lost team not doing the chess commercial, that is even better. That was the one thing that I wasn't sure about, since I didn't think they would ever be quite so obvious in a commercial. The fact that they have mentioned white against black so often, as well as mentioned so many games, WITHOUT talking about chess in the show actually means it is more likely that chess will be an important reveal.

Also, reread what I said. I did NOT say it was the MIB and Jacob playing chess, in fact I said quite the opposite. I said they were the king pieces. The kings in a chess game are powerless to effect each other, and don't move very quickly (in fact, Jacob seemed to stay protected in his "castle" for long periods of time). The king pieces are not the ones deciding the rules, the actual players are. That would mean that there is an additional level of power we haven't seen ("Everyone answers to someone"). This is starting to show, as even though we assumed the MIB and Jacob were the powers behind the powers, the MIB was essentially just put in his place by a little boy.

And don't take me so literally. I do not mean to imply the great reveal at the end will be two old men playing chess in a park. That is cliche and frankly silly. I meant that the writers are going to play up the chess motif, which brings in questions of free will, light against dark, but ultimately a struggle devoid of morality (though one side is dark and one is light, neither is "good" in chess). Again, there will be no grand reveal with a chess board, but if my theory is correct, there is some power (or two of them) playing a game with human lives. To settle a bet? As a test (rats in a maze kind of thing)? I don't know. My guess though, is with the feel of the show so far, it will not be supernatural (no gods) and it won't be aliens. It will probably be other people, either from the future (sufficiently scientifically advanced) or effected in some way by the natural forces on the island.

Hell, maybe the island keeps "life energy" around from dead people (hence the whispers) and the people who died on the island have been bored for so long they devised a game to keep them occupied.

Sherwinator said...

Wow. This was a crazy detailed review hahahhaha. I love Lost. I started watching it about 2 years ago. I actually watched the first 3 seasons during a Winter Break all within a month period hahah. Thanks for the post. I wrote an article about the episode also if you ever want to check it out. http://www.whatsgoodblog.com/2010/02/lost-season-6-episode-4-review-recap/

Thanks again for this awesome article and keep it coming!

Mike V. said...

Steve...I know you didn't say MIB and Jacob playing chess and I wasn't taking you literally...sorry for the confusion! I was just kidding because I always have this fear that they're going to show us something in the final scene that is going to make us rethink the whole show. like Walt and Aaron playing a video game (making up "THE RULES" as they go) or MIB and Jacob playing chess...... I'm fine with GAMES...but as long as it is more "theoretical" than "ACTUALLY a board game or video game" lol
from seasons 1-3 i have always looked for a "SCIENTIFIC" answer to everything...e.g. all supernatural stuff would be explained. And Darlton revised their statement that "anything you find in a Michael Crichton novel" could be at play....so scientifically backed sci-fi. I don't know how we explain healing springs, ageless wonders, curing cancer and curing paralysis with that in mind. It would seem to me that they have strayed from that...but it doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the show!
so yeah..i'm on the same "board" with you that there could be some kind of theoretical game....and it does seem that MIB and Jacob have a score to settle or some kind of bet going....as in Jacob is looking for something to END and finds progress in what he has been doing. MIB sees a constant loop of the same stuff going on.... so one of them wants to be right..the other wrong. what that is?? we don't really know yet. Again, sorry for the confusion! I was typing that up between meetings and had like 5 minutes to think and type lol

Sherwinator, thanks for the props on the blog. Feel free to check out all of my previous posts all the way back to season 2...they have evolved into what they are now over time lol I'll check yours out too!

Steve said...

The healing, easy, nano-bots! See, the nano-bots go into the body, repair the spine, destroy the cancer, prevent aging, etc. In the case of the MIB, his nanobots can infect the brain, causing it to see/not see things. Therefor, the tests the Asian dude did make sense. First he blew black iron dust over Sayid to see if they were effected by the magnetic field the nano-bots were producing in his body. Then he hooked up electricity to him at a low enough voltage that it wouldn't hurt someone without the nano-bots, but the nano-bots would react to it by making the pain receptors super sensitive (overloading of a sort), next he used a hot iron poker to see not how Sayid reacted, but how his skin reacted (did the nano-bots repair the skin/protect the skin).

Ok, I admit, it's a little out there, but what isn't in the wacky world of lost?

Mike V. said...

lol...ahhh good ol' nanobots! I'd be all for that solution if Darlton didn't already say that Nano-bots are not in play back in season 2. Of course...i think they only said that the SMOKE MONSTER was not comprised of nano-bots. You know...i've heard that word so many times and I don't even really know what it is! I just know that this was one of their popular "no that's not it" statements right up there with Purgatory! lol

Of course...speaking of nano-bots...let's talk midichrlorians because that's there new favorite thing to discuss. Their whole concern with season 6 is balancing the answers to actually divulge vs. what is actually OVER-EXPLAINING? case-in-point: Episodes IV-VI of Star Wars we have this awesome magical all powerful FORCE that Jedi can manipulate and master and do all sorts of cool things with. NEVER did we ask why this happened? We just loved the MAGIC of it. Good ol' senial George Lucas decided that in his precious prequels he was going to explain this to us...and that all jedi have a concentrated amount of organisms in their blood stream called midichlorians...And we had this large amount of dialogue like it was a 1st grade lecutre as Qui Gon explained it to 9 year old Anakin Skywalker. And just like that...the magic of the FORCE was lost forever.

Now we go to LOST...we have this magical island where miraculous things have happened. We have been promised answers are coming since season 1. But now as we get closer to the end...Darlton have started to wonder...do we REALLY want the answers? Now, there's another way to look at this. They never had answers. The Island was just some magical place that the writers manipulated to do as they please for the sake of telling great stories. They are going to tackle answers like "why everyone is interconnected" "who/what is the smoke monster" but they have already told us they will not answer the question "WHAT IS THE ISLAND" they have put these characters onto this crazy place and the answers we will get is what characters brought them there, why they're there, what is their purpose for being there. It's all about the characters. And there is plenty of mystery there. so i kind of agree with Darlton on their midichlorian concept for season 6....but at the same time, I do think they might be chickening out a little at providing those answers! At the same time...the story is so good, that I don't even care! As long as there is resolution at the end, I am find with some things being left for us to ponder forever.

I think i just rambled on and contradicted myself 10 or 20 times there. But I totally agree, wacky theories are all part of being LOST! Keep it up Steve!

Steve said...

See, the problem with the "they aren't going to explain everything, just the characters" bit is, not it would be terribly unsatisfying. I say that because of what we learned in this episode when the MIB said "I used to be a man, just like you".

Now, I know some people here think he's lying, but because of the way this season is working, and because of who he is, I am convinced he will be the primary method for exposition of the season. That means that most of the things he says are likely true. The only one I'd question is the "it's just an island" but even that I think might have some truth in the end. For example, maybe it is "just an island" but an island that people (in the future, now, in the past) have chosen randomly for the "game" to happen on. Because of that, they put crazy stuff on the island for the game, but the island has no intrinsic value itself. For this reason, it might not need protecting any more than a king needs protecting. Sure, in the context of chess, a king is a vital piece, but once you walk away from the game, it's just a piece of wood (or whatever).

Anyway, what I was trying to say was, since they've revealed that the MIB was once a man, they now NEED to tell us how it was he became the smoke monster. You can't leave that question unsolved. Sure, they might not need to go into the mitochlorian level of detail (which I agree is lame) but they have to at least make it plausible. Remember, this is supposed to be sci-fi, not fantasy. That means even if you vaguely refer to the technology that allows it to happen without specifics, it still needs to be rooted in physics (even if it's fantasy physics, if that makes sense). Plus, the smoke monster has always had electro-mechanical properties (lighting inside, the gears noise, etc). Again, even if we don't get a specific blueprint for what the smoke monster is made of, I think it's likely that they will at least have a vague explanation.

And again, I think that cause and effect are going to be big in this season. That is to say, I don't think we will know the cause of any effect until the end of the season. Once you bring time travel into it (which we have already seen) the whole concept of cause-effect have to be scrapped. For this reason I still think the time of Dharma had a big role in creating the island as we know it, even though it's been around (and "special") for longer than that. Maybe it was the bomb, maybe it was Dharma itself. In fact, I'm almost convinced they had a hand in creating the smoke monster (or as they called him, Cerberus) though I don't know if they knew what they were doing.

Ok, now I'm just rambling about nothing. I forget the point of this post.

Mike V. said...

okay, i'm gonna respond to this as I'm reading it. I totally agree that learning the MIB's back story will definitely shed some light on the whole LOST story. And agree that we need the explanation how HOW he became the smoke monster. But i think where the line is drawn is talking about the scientific make up of what makes the smoke monster a smoke monster. I don't think they'll explain that. Just like they won't really explain HOW the island can move through time or possibly even heal people. Just that it can. your fantasy physics logic makes sense to me lol but when you bring up stuff like the nose it makes and the flashes it makes me want to know more again..so maybe they'll offer up something.

it would be interesting of DHARMA somehow was involved in creating the island...i just don't know about it though. but we can trace back Alvar Hanso to his Black Rock ancestors...so there may be more to THAT story. interesting that maybe they created the monster. We have not seen the monster PRIOR to 1988 (i think that's the date)...when the French team arrived. then again...we have seen carvings of smokey with anubis underground oustide the temple...which would suggest it's been around for awhile....but then again manipulation of TIME which DHARMA definitely was doing could have done something nuts.

I still like the idea of jacob assigning this SECURITY SYSTEM role to MIB and him going rogue. But Jacob physically touching MIB and saying "boom you're a smoke monster now!" is kind of goofy too! lol

anyway...i didn't lose you during your thought process...I tend to ramble on and on until my point is different than the one I started with too. All part of LOST discussions!

JTF said...

Could the MIB and Jacob be father and son? I know Jacob refers to him as an "old friend", but possibly after all these years together they do not acknowledge their relationship anymore...

Lost has always been consistent when it comes to "Daddy Issues"....

horseman said...

In the article in EW magazine that was published the week Season 6 began, Darlton told Doc Jensen that "someone on the show will ask 'what is the island?'" Darlton did not commit to saying the question would or would not be answered but Doc thinks so!

In that same article, and others published since Season 6 began, Darlton have repeatedly said there are too many questions to answer and unless the characters are asking them they won't get answered. I get what he's saying but it really doesn't say much. I mean, for example, how do I know if Sawyer is wondering who built the statue?

Mike V. said...

JTF, you never know. I have heard/read that speculation too and you're very right about the Father/Son dynamic on the show. If it goes that direction I would probably say that MIB is the father.

Thanks for pointing that out horseman. I always forget about that quote! Maybe we'll get an answer but it might not be a very detailed or specific answer. It could be an answer like what Locke said "It's a place where miracles happen". I still think they'll strike the right balance with answers vs. midichlorians! Speaking of EW...pick up this week's issue...it's another LOST one. Dan Snierson and Doc Jensen went to Hawaii to interview the LOST peeps...Jack and Claire are on the cover. GOOD TIMES!

Steve said...

I don't think Jacob MADE the MIB the smoke monster. In fact, I would say they are both at the same level of power. That is to say, neither have any at all. Jacob is fulfilling one role, the MIB is fulfilling another. As you saw in the final moments of Jacob's life, in the end (like the King) he was powerless to do anything to even stop his own death. He was in check(mate?). Essentially, it looks like both Jacob AND the MIB have strict rules they must follow (which, again, insinuates a higher power). The difference between the two is Jacob seems content in his role, in his powerlessness. He has come to terms with the rules of the game and is content to play it for as long as necessary. The MIB is not content with the rules, he is the quintessential cripple who refuses to let anyone tell him what he can or cannot do (despite the fact that the rules, do, in fact exist). That makes him more like a dog on a chain than a trained dog. He's just as controlled, he just doesn't know it.

I guess the point of this, again, is to say that Jacob is not the man with the power. Nor is MIB. Both are pawns in the game, we just don't know who the players are (if there even are any. Perhaps, as I said before, the dead are the ones pulling the strings).

Mike V. said...

It's definitely a good theory....Jacob/MIB being equals, the dead pulling the strings, etc... Which is ironic because Jacob is now dead! But does that negate the entire plan that Jacob set into action including recruiting all of the current crop of candidates to come on Flight 815 and then some again on Flight 316? Giving hurley the guitar case with the list? I don't think he was completely powerless to stop his death, it was almost like it was part of his plan.

All of that being said, I can be on board with jacob not being the man with all of the powers. He is just continuing his "chess match" with the MIB even after his death. They are both out to prove something...and we're going to find out eventually what that is!

And I agree on THE RULES...granted, we have never seen Jacob having to follow any rules yet. But I do like this idea of the GHOSTS being the higher power. (granted...we need the crichton-esque sci-fi explanation! I guess we can go with the AVATAR Life Force lol) It would explain the kid appearing to MIB and reminding him of the rules. maybe it also explains the crazy dreams/visions Locke had...with Boone appearing to him and forgiving him in season 3 etc...

So you mentioned Jacob and MIB are fulfilling different roles. Any thoughts on what those roles are? Jacob's role is the ISLAND RECRUITER and MIB's role as Smokey is the JUDGER (deciding who lives and dies)? What about Jacob's ability to heal? (or at least it seems when he touched Locke) And do you think Jacob somehow turned Richard into the ageless being that he is? Richard says "I'm this way because of Jacob" a very vague statement which could imply that Jacob had a hand in it but maybe didn't do it himself.

Not poking holes now...just exploring your theory more! lol

Anonymous said...

ok I've never commented here, and you guys can probably shut me down with some better facts.
But in the cave Shepard is 23. Now is there any chance that this is actually a reference to Claire? considering biologically she is a Shepard.
Not that I'm rooting against Jack, but I think it would be crazy if he was not the big hero in the end.
just a thought.

Mike V. said...

Hey anonymous, actually if you look at the screenshots, you can see that "LITTLETON" is on the wall and crossed off. Claire's full name is Claire Littleton.

Interesting thought though!

I'm confused...why would you think Jack wouldn't be the big hero if his name was on the wall and not crossed off? That makes him a candidate to be SAVIOR OF THE ISLAND! lol Well, "protector" but still. It makes him important in Jacob's eyes or MIB depending who you believe. I agree with you. I still think Jack has to be the hero in the end. We have seen him as a hero and we have seen him fall down to his lowest points....this season is about him picking up the pieces and finishing his hero's journey! I'll be upset if they keep him a whiny baby all the way to the end! lol

Mike V. said...

of course...some people have noted that Littleton could have been for "Aaron" too. who knows!?! We have to think Aaron's story isn't over yet, right?

horseman said...

I also thought Shepard might not be Jack and I thought Sawyer says "Jack Shepard" and Flocke says "Yes". But the Transcript does not read that way. Check it out below. Not sure if this is official, but (F)Locke's line "He's not the only one" when delivered on the show seemed to mean that's not the only name not crossed out. But if you were reading this you might think it means Jack is not the only Shepard. Why can't anything be easy with this show. :)

SAWYER: Why are all the names crossed out?
LOCKE: There not all crossed out.
SAWYER: "Shephard". That Jack Shephard?
LOCKE: He's not the only one.
SAWYER: Reyes. That's Hugo, right? What's the eight about?
LOCKE: Jacob had a thing for numbers.

Weasel said...

That's is OK Mike, not sure I know what I was talking about either :)

Mike V. said...

Horseman, I think it's as easy as we make it! If we dissect every line like that we'll drive ourselves crazy lol I'm trying to think of a time where we heard dialogue in one episode, and then episodes later we found out that we were meant to interpret it differently. I'm sure there are times, but none come to mind right now.

I think he was saying that Jack Shephard was not the only one on the wall, just like we originally thought he meant! Right after that, he then he pointed to Jarrah, Kwon, Reyes, Locke, and Ford. (not in that order...but you know what i mean!)

Even further to clarify this...when he got to Kwon...he said "i'm not sure if it's Sun or Jin" With Shephard he didn't say anything like that!

i happen to have the video on my phone so I'll check it out and then post my thoughts after watching the scene with this "new interpretation!" lol

Mike V. said...

Weasel, keep theorizing...even if they end up being wrong, they're fun to ponder! That still blew my mind of the potential of the Sideways happening FIRST...that seems like something LOST would pull on us. e.g. the FLASH FORWARD in the season 3 finale. Still my favorite revelation!

Mike V. said...

okay...so i watched...

Sawyer says: shephard...that be Jack Shephard?

cut to a flashback of Jacob handing the apollo bar to Jack and touching his hand.

cut back to FLOCKE: he's not the only one...as he moves the torch over to illuminate REYES

Seems pretty, no pun intended, BLACK & WHITE to me! lol (okay...absoultely intended!) It's Jack he's talking about.

Weasel said...

OK, so I will try to explain my "think Desmond".

When his consciousness flashes around time, he ends up at points before the island time, but still remembers stuff from the island time. Could the same thing be happening in the "sideways"? Maybe as Juliet is dying, her "sideways" consciousness "returns" to her current mind and she seems to "remember" the coffee thing.

Hope that helps clear up that part of my theory.

Weasel said...

... after all, they were exposed to radiation

can't think of anything cool said...

Dude! What an amazing re-cap & discussion of this show!!!! Mike V- You're awesome, don't let anybody tell you different, my brotha! You have created a blog & place to come after the show that is almost as good as the show itself. It's taken me all week to read everything you guys (& gals, like myself) have posted. But only because it's so much thought-provoking material. I love to see a post start out thinking one way, then within the same paragragh, an opposite thought comes out!

I'm going to stand firm in my belief that Locke was "taken over" or at least some other form of what he has become now (MIB) before Ben killed him. Meaning, that I believe he was changed from the very beginning, maybe right after the plane crashed in the pilot. I mean, Mike, I know you said he was always portrayed as a mysterious character from the beginning, that it was part of how the other losties would perceive him, but I don't know. I think he has been at least a part of MIB prior to Ben killing him. Maybe even before the pilot crash, possibly MIB has always been a part of Locke, like with him drawing the smoke monster as a kid. It would explain alot if they've always been kind of the same & one...and the "don't tell me what I can't do!", that they both have said...hhhmmmmmm

Oh- and Sawyer, poor Sawyer. If he is trying to con MIB- well, that cannot turn into anything but UGLY! An expert conman trying to con an unknown smoke monster? Oh the horror! And I love Sawyer so much! But if he really is 'untouchable' then maybe he can be the one to do it! Maybe that's why Jacob touched him & made him the excellent conman that he is now!

I still can't decide though who Kate will be with. In the 'enhanced' version of Kate's story from last week, it said something about how Kate & Sawyer 'consummated' their relationship, but that her & Jack 'fell in love' while they were off the island... Lust vs. Love. Still so confusing! I think Kate is Eve, I'm just wondering if it's Jack or Sawyer that turns out to be Adam. If Jack is to be the 'hero' that you, (Mike V) thinks, then that would leave Sawyer to be Adam. I just want more satisfying answers, without all the additional, new questions, soon! One of the silly answers I want is why the others (back in season 1), dressed in disguises (like old, torn clothes & glue-on mustaches & junk) to look like natives living off the land, when they had modern technology? This may have been answered already, but I can't stop thinking about little things like that from the start, if anyone remembers, please share!

And whoever had the idea of the side-ways thing being BEFORE everything that we've already seen, then boy would that be a switcheroo- much like the flashfoward!!! The 'what about the deja-vu feeling they're having?' explanation would be easy enough to explain with how they've always been connected somehow, which team Darlton has already promised to answer how & why they are all connected...

Anyway- Mike V, again, GREAT JOB! And to everyone else who posts, great thoughts. I love it!

JP said...

I haven't read all the comments so if this idea has been stated already then sorry, my bad.
I think that we MAY have it all wrong when it comes to MIB and the numbers. What if the "cave of names" is actually MIB's dwelling and not Jacob's? We know that Jacob lived in the base of the statue and possibly the cabin. I don't think that MIB is interested in telling the truth about anything and will tell the losties all sorts of lies in an attempt to win them over. We can't trust anything he says, so I think that he is the one doing the name and number thing in the cave not Jacob. To me Jacob seems pretty cool , calm and collected, not at all the type to be so obsessive about names and numbers, not to mention so messy with it. Anyway, just an idea. Any thoughts?

davidsalako said...

@Weasel - like the idea of the flash-sideways being similar to Desmond's "remembering" future events that are yet to happen. I mean, they must have given us all that Desmond stuff for a reason, right? Maybe he is a template of some sort being special according to Daniel Faraday? Maybe "remembering" what they are "supposed" to do or let happen allows them to make the right decisions for the greater good?. E.g. Charlie's sacrifice and Desmond's premonition of it?

On another note, something TEAM DARLTON said in one of their interviews at the start of this season about the core story of LOST being about the Oceanic 815ers and their influence on the HISTORY of the island. I was wondering if this history goes back even further than the groovy seventies? Have our LOSTies been part of the islands events even further back in addition to the time jumping of season 5?

davidsalako said...

BTW, I also agree that MIBs cave in a cliff dwellings do not seem like the dwellings of the seemingly very meticulous and neat Jacob. I mean, the dude spent years weaving a tapestry and his home in the foot of the statue seemed very orderly and spartan. The writing of the names on the ceiling of the cave seem more like the work of an angry and obsessed person as opposed to being calm about long term planning.
MIB: "You have no idea what I have been through to get here"
vs.
Jaacob: "It takes a long time to weave something like that i.e. tapestry making your own thread, but I guess that is the point"

Mike V. said...

Weasel, not sure why I didn't realize what you were saying when you said "think desmond" now that you explained it lol I've been thinking that whatever Jack and crew are going through is VERY similar to what Desmond went through...except the differences are that Desmond relived stuff almost exactly as it happened originally. This new world is a bit different for Jack and crew...(or old world if you think it happened first!) But yeah...i was thinking that it all had to be related because it is all hatch/electromagnetic/radition related. of course...we also learn in THE CONSTANT that things don't occur the same all of the time...so that could explain the differences between Jack and Crew and Demsond. I dunno...i'm making no sense! NEXT commenter! lol

Can't think of anything cool....wow...thanks for the big props!! I appreciate the very kind words. And I agree that this place has turned into a great LOST Discussion Place and I couldn't be happier about it! And i am the biggest culprit of changing thoughts mid-stream in the comments lol It's a good time! Yeah...there are times that it does seem that Locke was "taken over" since the beginning of LOST. He may have been "INFECTED" or "claimed" since the beginning of his island adventures. that might go on to explain things. And good point about him drawing the smoke monster....it's all very bizarre! I don't know how it explains the 2 lockes then...Smokey version and the Dead body. But there is definitely a revelation that we still need to understand all of that! I don't just think Jack needs to be the hero....it just makes sense that he is! He has always been the main character...sure there are other characters that people like more than him...but JACK is the Hero! And yeah...i've always felt he needs to die at the end...just like matthew fox does as well. of course...with these 2 timelines...who knows what dying even means?? So you think adam and eve are sawyer and kate eh? very interesting. I just don't know... i wonder if Adam and Eve could somehow be SIDEWAYS versions of our LOSTIES that have already been on the island?? (if you go with Weasel's theory)...maybe there is only 1 version of the island....and all timelines intersect at this nexus or something crazy like that? that would be interesting lol Here i go rambling again! I still like MIB possibly being Adam and his wife that was killed being Eve....but i don't know how much that really makes sense either. We'll see!

Mike V. said...

good question on the disguises as well...i don't know if we'll ever get those answers but i agree why on earth did they do that? To make the LOSTIES think they are "hillbillies??" I'm guessing that's probably the answer. Thanks again "can't think!"

JP - actually someone DID bring that up lol I think it's definitely a possibility....my thoughts are...we're so close to the end of LOST that what purpose would it serve to be revealing stuff in this final season that ends up being a LIE? Now...that being said....I'm sure MIB isn't telling THE WHOLE TRUTH...he kept some stuff to himself to try and sway Sawyer to his side. But yeah...not everything adds up about that scene. If Jacob is dead then why would he give sawyer the option to do nothing and hope his name got crossed off? Who would cross off his name if Jacob is dead? David...you do bring up interesting points though with the MIB/Jacob quotes from the S5 finale. interesting.... ugh now i don't know what to think!

I'm just really hoping we get that Jacob and/or MIB back story even though we are mainly focusing on this sideways land. If it all intersects at some point then maybe we still can get those backstories...AND the Black Rock backstory. I just think those things are very important to understanding the entire mythology of the LOST Saga. But...alas...we must be patient and savor these final episodes!!

Whew...it's crazy when I let those comments pile up like that! I'm sure it won't be the last time it happens. Have a great weekend losties!

davidsalako said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
davidsalako said...

Pilot episode:
Sitting on the beach, Claire hadn't felt Aaron kick since the plane crashed. Hurley brings her some fish on some leaves, Aaron starts to kick.
Season 5 finale:
Jacob is seen fishing and sitting down to enjoy eating his fish on some leaves while seating on the beach.
*****************
Season 6 "What Kate Does": Aaron's heart seems to stop for a while, then it starts to beat again and Dr. Ethan Goodspeed says "Aaron likes to move around a lot".
Various episodes: Jacob seems to have lived in more than one location on the island, not to mention the ever moving cabin!
*****************
1988:
Time traveling Jin encounters a young Danielle Rousseau who will have a baby Alex that will eventually be raised by Ben and murdered in an apparent "changing of the rules" by Widmore.
2007:
No longer time traveling Jin encounters Claire (the new Rousseau!) who has had baby Aaron, who is being raised by Claire's mother in an apparent "changing of the rules" that no one else but Claire should raise him!

Anonymous said...

hey mike, have u seen this particular theory and if so what is your take on it?

http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2010/02/complete-scientifical-theory-of-lost-by.html

Holdo

plumbarius said...

Hilarious...just saw Cindy in another commercial!!
A CVS pharmacy spot!! Man, talk about taking advantage of a small guest role and running with it!

She's almost as cute as blogger Liz ;-)

Mike V. said...

Oh wow...a LOST Addicts Blog first! Flirting in the comments section! LOL Maybe this blog will have a shelf-life after the show is over!

David, interesting parallels there. Some may be a bit of a stretch but there could be something there! One thing I did want to correct though. Jin is the one that brought claire the fish in season 1. (don't think it was the pilot episode)...she hadn't felt the baby kick in days...and once she ate this questionable food (that hurley refused to try)....she looked like she was going to throw up but was just excited that "he" was kicking...and made jin feel. "I guess i think you're a he" Hurely, in the pilot episode, gave claire 2 of the Oceanic dinners since she's eating for 2. awwwww lol

holdo, i looked a the theory a bit yesterday but it was on my phone...so I"ll take a look now and let you know!

Mike V. said...

seems like that is a conglomeration of lots of theories that have been going on for the past couple seasons (did i spell that word right? lol) Someone here also mentioned that maybe DHARMA has had a lot more to do with the way the Island is than meets the eye. The Life Extension project thing is something I always forget about...and may play a role here. I dunno. but DHARMA being responsible for the monster? I just don't know. But...it is true that we never saw it during DHARMA Times or in 1954.....we saw MIB during Black Rock times though. And we saw smokey carved into the wall in those caves near the temple....just seems like it's been around for a long time.

we'll see!!

davidsalako said...

@Mike V. - Thanks for the corrections, I am getting my episodes all mixed up!
I think you are on to something regarding the DHARMA Initiative and their experiments in life extension, bilocation/time travel and God knows what else!
Perhaps the DHARMA video with the time traveling rabbit appearing in two locations at once was a clue to something?
The Smoke Monster really doesn't seem to have been active during the DHARMA heyday, at least not for what they have shown us. They did have that sonic fence though. Strange. I guess Ben and co. just thought that the Smoke Monster was a manifestation of the island? Security system?

davidsalako said...

Also, blond apparition boy kind of looks like young Charlie Hume as well! Charlie Hume has some very interesting ancestry - Desmond Hume, Penelope Widmore, Charles Widmore and half-uncle Daniel Faraday!

Anonymous said...

Yea I seen it on a cool iPhone app, lost addict :)

The reason I brought it up is because the bit about the monster copying locke's conscious in the first season ties in really well with why he can't change his form. Also the names of some of the characters are names of top scientists. To me it all seems very applicable.

Although I believe the show will end in such a way that you can believe what you want to believe, the whole show to me is about science vs faith. And I think we will have to choose our own ending.

Holdo

Mike V. said...

good point about the sonic fence being there in the 70's as well. i'm guessing we just didn't see the monster. Even Richard said "that fence may keep other things out but it doesn't keep us out" we'll see i guess! as for the boy being Charlie Hume...now that would be interesting! lol I'm guessing probably not but you never know!

Holdo, yeah, a lot of people are thinking that Locke was MIB infested since season 1...and I can see why they may think that...but i don't think i want to subscribe to that theory....there has been too many things to suggest that it WAS john locke than things to suggest it was MIB (the creepy look he gave at the end of tabula rasa)......case in point...sawyer even noticed the difference in FLOCKE vs LOCKE in the last episode we saw. Locke was very determined to please the island from season 1-5....i just don't think MIB would have put on THAT much of an act. But there may be more to it than appears.

as for the iphone app...i did have it downloaded at one point...it seemed to freeze up on me a lot though. Looks like the theory you linked to went to Dark UFO though, and I follow all of the other crazy lost sites on twitter...so I should be good!

Connor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mike V. said...

Lostpedia's list of names on the candidate wall.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates#Known_candidates

Mike V. said...

Let's try this



lostpedia link

rhinoceros said...

quick post without having read all comments;

It seems very possible to me that MIB has written the names on the cave ceiling himself (Meaning he is lieing to Sawyer - not such a big stretch)

Either to A; just manipulate Sawyer etc. and convert and grab people.

or B; to keep count of people who have died or who he indeed has killed.

No massive assumptions here. One may be that we assume he knows the existence of the numbers.

Great post again MV. Thanks

Mike V. said...

Thanks Rhino! yeah, a lot of people are on the same boat as you. It could be totally right. My thing has just been that..we already have a character that lies ALL OF THE TIME. I am just guessing in the "SEASON OF ANSWERS" that they'd spend less time messing with us when they reveal something. Sure, we still have questions, and MIB could have left major details out. But I have to think that this cave has been used by Jacob. What we might know yet is that MIB has been using it too. Which kind of goes along with what you are saying.

BTW: We just crossed 150,000 Hits on the Lost Addicts Blog since February 2007! (I didn't track hits prior to that, but there weren't many readers back then!) Anyway, there was one point where I thought it would be amazing if we would get to 10,000 by the end of the show! And after this thing evolved, I thought 150,000 would be a shot in the dark to get to. But here we are in the BEGINNING of season 6 and the readership is still growing! Thanks guys for keep coming back and welcome to all new readers. You all have made this an exciting place to discuss this great show! Can we make it to 200,000 by the end of May? Oh, I'm thinking it's very possible!

MJ said...

139 comments ! Holey Moley. Don't know how you are keeping up Mike.

Interestingly, as the week had gone on I was seeing more and more discussion on how as fans we are almost trained to NOT believe what Lost is saying on screen. LOL An how true that is.

So alot of peeps are now saying that Flock stating that Jacob wrote the names is probably true - that this is the season of answers so we need to stop being so resistant to hearing some truth. They are also agreeing that what is written is significant - just not as MIB is saying it.

Just found the concept interesting - how we keep looking for the 'untruth' in all the scenes.

Now - gonna try to catch up to all of your posts !

Am excited for tomorrow - have been very careful NOT to read the description on my DVR so I won't know what is coming.

can't think of anything cool said...

Congrats, Mike V. on all the hits, how freakin cool is THAT!!!

I have been thinking alot about the suggestion of the new timeline we're seeing, (where the losties land safely in LA). And with regards to it being BEFORE everything we've seen already...maybe the losties will figure out in the current timeline (2004 one) that they will have to do something to make themselves go through one of the 'pockets' at the lamp post to have to 'catch up' with where they're supposed to be? Huh, does that even make sense? Seems to me with the way the characters are already connecting and running into eachother and having the deja-vus, that maybe Eloise will talk to them like she did with Desmond, and tell them where they are supposed to be, which is on the island. Then they all will be in Australia, and take the flight again? No, that doesn't make sense either...Sorry. I'm trying really hard to put my idea on here, but it's not working so well...maybe somebody can figure out what I'm trying to say. I think I'm liking the idea of them landing peacefully in LA is BEFORE what we've already known. I just can't figure out how it will work...

Weasel said...

@can't think of anything... yeah, i confuse myself with that theory LOL. But I am sticking with it... something causes them all to go to the island to start all this in motion.

Mike V. said...

Totally agree MJ! It's tough for people to believe anything on LOST. I am just choosing to believe that they are revealing answers to us this season as well lol But also agree that MIB may not be revealing EVERYTHING. Hence, there are 2 sides to every story. We need Jacob's version! Good luck staying away from the episode synopsis for tomorrow. It doesn't give away much, as I can tell you I already read it! I was really good during the off-season at not being spoiled. I think a sentence or 2 now won't hurt me too much! LOL

Thanks Can't Think of Anything! Although, I should be congratulating all of you or just thanking again for all of the visits you guys make!

Yeah I really like Weasel's theory...it's a good one but definitely has some holes to fill in. Even if it doesn't pan out, it's still an interesting path the show could have taken! the 2 timelines have to be connected somehow. So why NOT have it come before? Afterall, we know it doesn't make sense that jughead would have sank the island. I think we've reasoned that one out.

maybe more clues will come out of tomorrow's ep!

davidsalako said...

Congratulations on your milestones Mike V.!
Well deserved.
- Watching "The Substitute" again, someone else probably has already mentioned this but the boy that appears to Flocke seems to say "we can't kill him" and "we know the rules" rather than "you can't kill him, you know the rules".
Also it may be my imagination but the kid seems to posed standing left foot forward like the Tawaret statue.
MIB knows exactly the emotions to stir in his targets, talking to Sawyer about loss, betrayal, pain etc.
Talking to Ben about being "ignored" by Jacob and having to sacrifice sooo much for Jacob.
Interesting fact: that Ji Yeon Kwon, Aaron Littleton and Walter Lloyd are all being raised by their grandmothers....who knows if it means anything?

Mike V. said...

Thanks David!

I just re-checked the episode on my phone (gotta love technology!) The boy definitely says "YOU can't kill him" and "you know the rules" Would have been interesting if it was "we" though.

Definitely an interesting note about the grandmothers raising the kids, though I would chalk this up to the next most logical relative to raise the children! lol

and yeah Smokey has proved that he can read these people's thoughts... maybe locke's more than anyone since he's kind of infused with Locke's form and mental state ("don't tell me what I can't do!!") he talks about LOSS...but i think MIB is talking about himself as well there. I'm hoping we get the backstory, but there has to be some deep-rooted hatred built somewhere between Jacob and MIB. I still think it would be interesting if MIB lost a loved one and he blames Jacob for it. (hence my adam and eve theory that is probably false lol) But we'll see!

MJ said...

Hey now ! Maybe Jack and Claire are Adam and Eve ! They get left behind to keep watch over the island as they are related. That would certainly prove that they had an end game in mind when still in season one.

MJ said...

Whew ! Have finally caught up ! And wow ! SOme really big theories running round here.

I like the chess one. I've often felt the 'game' Jacob and MIB were playing felt like chess - just never that indepth. I just took it like they were each plotting their next moves and counter moves.

As for the LA X time happening before the island time - got a tissue for my blood clot I'm throwing ? Gotta think that one thru.

Either way - I'm sure we all can agree that we really don't have enough info to really make a great guess - and that's how we like it. But what fun it is guessing, right ? It's what seperates us from the casual watcher afterall.

And - I'd be just a tiny bit disappointed if we could guess this early in the season. I mean, Darlton is known for killer season finales - so the series finale should totally turn our worlds upside down !

Mike V. said...

well they wouldn't necessarily have had that in mind the whole time! they could say: "hmmm..claire and jack are still alive...let's transport them back in time since we invented time travel on the island...and have them be protectors of the island. oooh but even though jacob and MIB are immortal, let's let them die side by side in a cave!" LOL

Alas, but i kid! I just can't see what revelation would be so big that we would know 100% without a doubt that they knew what they were doing all along! lol

It could be Jack and Claire, but what is up with the 2 bodies being laid next to each other like that? Did they just lay down and die one day? did someone put them there?

Of course, we must take note that we still haven't seen Rose and Bernard back in 2007. But there is still the issue with the deterioration of the bodies. Unless...jughead blew both of them to the cave, didn't vaporize them and they just died right there and then laying side by side.

yikes...i'm really rambling with no idea what i'm talking about!

btw...the new official LOST Podcast is finally up with darlton. It's on iTunes and you can get to it at lost.abc.com If i hear anything worthwhile i will post!

Mike V. said...

MJ...agreed with your 2nd post 100%!

noel said...

What if the sideways flash isn't before or concurrent, but AFTER the 2007 timeline. Whatever "war" that is coming could have a cataclysmic event that sinks the island and causes a time flash back to 2004, putting everyone back to just before the turbulence event. Plenty of holes in this theory too, but something else to think about...

Mike V. said...

Noel, i think that actually is the more "traditional" (if there is such a thing) approach to speculating about the Flash Sideways. Many people are theorizing that Flash Sideways land is the END-STATE of LOST. Whatever they're doing on the island will cause that. That's why it was interesting to think the reverse way...what if whatever they do in sideways land causes what happens in the ISLAND timeline we know and love?

Of course, like you said...i haven't thrown out the possibility of them happening concurrently either. They're all in play! LOL

Mike V. said...

Okay...here's a recap of the Darlton Podcast. I can't recommend subscribing to this thing enough. Even if they don't answer much, it is still hysterical to listen to them. And, well, we actually did get some clarifications on record.

First the Re-Hash of the Substitute:

- as suspected, this is what they mean when we will get answers to things like THE NUMBERS. They have gone on record many times stating that they cannot fully explain the meaning behind the numbers. But they did answer that the numbers are associated with some of the 815ers...and they do promise at least one more tidbit on the numbers to come and it will come before the finale.

Then the Pre-hash "THE LIGHTHOUSE"
- Darlton hope that there are multiple meanings to the title...as in a possible literal meaning AND a metaphor. Interesting...
- Damon "as much as I loved 'the substitute' I'm dying to see claire again." Carlton - "claire is one of my favorite characters this season being all 'borneo.' she has some cool stuff coming up"

- they talk about flash sideways and how it is interesting to note that the LOSTIES are meeting each other in new and different ways and appear to be HELPING each other. Hurley helped Locke, Rose straightened Locke out. Jack offered to help Locke. Sawyer helped Kate...etc... that is 1 purpose of the flash sideways. As for "where are we going with the flash sideways?" they say...to keep watching (TBD)

Next up the Q&A Section of the podcast...

Mike V. said...

part 2 of the podcast recap:

Q: The Ultrasound says 10/22/2004. Real or Error?
A: Damon says if being honest it's an error but they want to go on record saying that the ultrasound machine was broken! LOL Anyway, it was a prop error!

Q: Parents just had a baby boy and want to name their baby Jack or Desmond. But they want their child to have a bright and shiny future. What should they name him?
A: Calton hesitates but goes with Desmond because Jack is a tortured character. Hmmm and Desmond isn't? I wonder if he was hinting at things to come for Jack's future?

Q: Person from Japan looked in to Dogen Zenji and noticed his death was on September 22nd. Coincidence?
A: Extreme Coincidence, although there is an ultrasound machine in Dogen Zenji's temple (LOL), joking of course. They did say that naming Dogen after Dogen Zenji is very intentional.

Q: You're pulling a fast one on us. Since there is no season 7, THIS is the Zombie season right?
A: You caught us! We're having our cake and eating it too. (Damon adds, eating brains). In all seriousness, they are excited that people are speculating about zombies, and that they enjoyed that Sayid could have the "appearance" of a zombie for a few episodes. But they said to stay tuned on future developments of Sayid.

Q: If you could live on the Island circa 2007 or in LA X Sideways Land in 2004, which would you do?
A: Damon says the Island but stresses that you cannot treat them as 2 separate entities. They are NOT alternate realities. Carlton says he'd prefer LA X land with cars and restaurants. Damon says to enjoy doing the podcast alone! Carlton said that if they aren't 2 separate entities couldn't they still do them together? hmmmmm

They did precursor this question to not have an answer but it was still funny!

Q: The 4 toed statue has always looked like a left foot from season 2 to season 5 and even in season 6 underwater. But when Sun, Frank and everyone are fighting on the beach in the season 6 premiere, it looks like a right foot. Is there anything too this?
A: Carlton: did we start this season off on the wrong foot? Damon: I totally alley ooped that to you. We do not rehearse this show ladies and gentlemen!

They said they probably will return for a podcast between eps 6 and 7 but are in the midst of writing the final episodes and are busy working on 10 episodes simultaneously. They call it "HELL" lol In the meantime, you can follow us on twitter. Damon: I'm @damonlindelof Carlton: and I'm @carltoncuse Damon: and together we're....."IDIOTS!!!" ahhh good times.

since we're following people on twitter...I'm @LOSTAddictsBlog btw.

Mike V. said...

forgot the most important one....they asked what we should be calling Island Locke....they brought up Smocke, Locke'ness Monster, Un-Locke.....they still are calling him Locke! LOL Whether that actually means something in the long run, i have no idea. But all of this crazy debate we're having, and the writers still are calling him Locke in the writer's room. pretty funny!

davidsalako said...

Hilarious...maybe if he looks like Locke, has Locke's memories and experiences then maybe he is Locke but with a different attitude and motivation?

Mike V. said...

Happy LOST Day folks! New Doc Jensen is up, link is below. Be warned: he goes all Huey Lewis on us in this column. Good thing I love Huey Lewis and the News! (and proud of it)

and I too am not sure why I didn't compare the ladder to the cave as JACOB'S LADDER! lol


New Doc Jensen!

MJ said...

Yeah - I' havent' read Doc yet, but did watch Totally Lost. Apparently Lighthouse is the name of a Virginia Wolf novel - so probably something to do with Darlton's comments about dual meaning - but I don't know that book.

Interesting about Jacob's ladder. Also they wonder if the boy appearing to Flocke/Sawyer will some how lead to answers about Walt - both being young boys and seeming to just appear with messages (they show Walt appear to Locke reminding him that he had things left to do).

Darlton totally 'lost' me with the whole not seperate entities thing. I usually get their snark - but not this time. But that's ok - just following along.

Still think that we will have a kind of ending that will leave endless debate on what/who is good and bad. Ya know, bad things done for the right reasons, etc. Not to get too deep but in every war there are two sides. And while you might consider the people that you fight to be bad, they think that they are on the side of right just like you do. They too are fighting for love of country or religion or whatever. So is there really a right or wrong in any war ? Just saying !

Mike V. said...

Just watched Totally LOST as well (video is on page 3 of the doc jensen article i linked above). Yeah, I pondered the boy possibly answering "Taller Ghost Walt" as well when I discussed the Aaron potential (probably in the comments and not in the blog lol) It would be an interesting way to go!

I'll have to check out the Virginia Wolf book. The teasers were pretty good. But in case anyone wants to stay 100% spoiler free, I won't discuss them lol they were light and one went along with some of the comments we've been saying.

as for the "not separate entities" they have wanted to make that clear since the premiere. There was that interview that Jensen did with Darlton that was posted right after the premiere. They clearly stated..."we do not refer to them as alternate realities because that would indicate one is not true"....they want us to be pondering how these storylines will intersect. and it's a slow burn after the season. definitely confusing, but i'm intrigued as always!

yep...LOST always portrays an evil person, but then we get their side of the story and they become a sympathetic character. I think we're going to see both MIB and Jacob's case of this season. And agree that while there will be resolution, things will be left ambiguous. (if that's possible!)

Mike V. said...

wiki entry on "To the Lighthouse" by Virginia Woolf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_the_Lighthouse

Mike V. said...

Another EW slideshow of the "CANDIDATES" and determining who is best for the job.

Other theories i read/heard this week are that possibly KWON is for Ji Yeon who was conceived on the island (and wouldn't have been if Jacob didn't touch both Jin and Sun and draw them to the island)

In the below link....good point about Kate maybe not being on the wall. Jacob instructed little girl Katie to "be good"...and well, she did murder her father, rob a bank, accidentally get her first love killed.....maybe Jacob didn't approve of this behavior?

Candidates Discussion

MJ said...

Thank for the link on Wolfe's book - I will check it out

But with the entities. I agree that Darlton has stated that neither is an alternate - both LA X and Island exist and at this point neither is false or other. So to me that mean that the ARE seperate entities. It's the 'NOT' that is throwing me off. They are seperate, non-touching (for now) realities that are both equally true (for now) so how can the NOT be seperate ????

And for those that are spoiler-phobes sorry if I stated something that I saw in Totally Lost. I actually avoid spoils - but their little videos are really not too spoilery. For instance - last week the said 'Locke won't leave Richard hanging around too long' - and what did we see ? Locke cut Richard down from a tree. But - sorry all the same if I did spoil for any one for this week.

Mike V. said...

MJ, i didn't think you spoiled anything...i just am afraid of upsetting anyone in this final season. There are some articles on major entertainment sites that are (ahem...TV Guide and TV Guide Magazine) that have articles right now with pretty spoilery stuff. I don't think Totally LOST is very spoilery at all!

see...i just thought when they said that they were implying that the 2 timelines are TIED together somehow...whether that be parallel where the thoughts of each character are connected....OR...it could be one big LOOP....and one instance has reprecussions for the next instance (as in...Sideways happened first....or happens AFTER).

I think they're trying to drive home that this FLASH SIDEWAYS land will tie into the Island Timeline we've been following for 6 years...and isn't just a "WHAT IF THE PLANE NEVER CRASHED" feel good story and isn't actually real. It isn't an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE.

the more i try to explain my thought process, the more i can hear myself contradicting what they said or just not explaining myself very well! LOL I think I may have to defer to speculation after LIGHTHOUSE airs and continue to not make sense then! lol

Anonymous said...

Hey guys, heard a crazy theory on the radio this morning. That the 100 and wa ever secounds that people blacked out in fast foward is the time wen the whole series of lost happens. Haha epic!

I dnt believe it but still is funny

Holdo

Mike V. said...

Holdo, are you talking about FlashForward the TV Show? lol yeah that's pretty funny. I think I've heard that before too.

I am going to say, since we're discussing parallel dimensions in universes, that FlashForward and LOST do NOT exist in the same universe....even though they did put that oceanic billboard in the pilot episode as an homage to LOST fans lol How would we explain Olivia vs. Penny? LOL

btw...in case you haven't seen it, I will be resuming FlashForward recaps in March! I'm going to guess they won't be as legnthy as they've been or as LOST recaps are just in the essence of my sanity until LOST is over! lol but check it out!

http://www.flashforwardaddicts.com

Anonymous said...

yea my bad flash foward! txtin this while driving lol bad news

Mike V. said...

now THAT is dedication to the blog!! LOL But I am not an advocate for this type of behavior!

Although, I have posted my share of comments from my phone and it is definitely more difficult! I'm gonna guess with the end approaching, it's not in my best interest to look into a mobile version of the site now lol

Mike V. said...

As always, another great interview with Mr. Emerson! (BEN)

GQ Michael Emerson interview

Weasel said...

I'm all for a mobile version of the site... for some reason my phone will not load the entire blog page (too big), so I cannot get to the link for the comments section

Mike V. said...

Weasel, I wish I knew enough to create that mobile version of the site. But I'm just not that tech savvy! LOL I'll look into it though. Sorry that you can't get to the comments link on the phone! You should copy and paste the link from the computer and email it to yourself! Or maybe that is what you do lol

LostFamily said...

LostFamily is, believe it or not, watching one episode a week, because we don't want it to end! I did LOL when I read "Un-Locke" - that is so clever! All the theories are pretty interesting - one thing I "think" I read in your (as always amazing) recap Mike was that you weren't sure where they were burying Locke - I did see the sticks of the church that Eko was building, so they are back on the beach where they've buried most of the other dead folks (you probably already knew that, but I feel the need to try to add something! LOL) This episode was pretty wild and I do feel like they are revealing things like crazy but then making us ask more questions! Love the show and your blog; which BTW is taking days to read now!

Mike V. said...

Thanks LOST Family for the continued props! If this is taking you days to read...the ones coming up may take you all week! LOL

Yeah it was definitely Boone hill where they buried Locke. They definitely took some liberties with how quickly they get from point A to Point B in the later seasons (especially 6) but it's all good!! I'm glad you agree that they're revealing tons of stuff. Lots of people weren't happy with the answers the powers that be were providing but I thoroughly enjoyed "MOST" of them. I won't say all lol But once you get the full picture and think about it for a few months it all kind of sits in. And you just say "the hell with" the stuff that they decided wasn't important! lol

Can't take credit for UN Locke....that was all over the place at the end of season 5. But I'm gonna take credit for the popularization of FLOCKE even if I'm not the first one to say it! :-)

I finished my run through of season 6 and I enjoyed it just as much this time around (knowing everything that was going on)....hopefully you'll continue your enjoyment of the 1st go round. I'm ready to watch the whole series again! Enjoy the next episode!

ZhaiLing fashion said...

Was also attached the ascending week to continue with all the messages - but we never obtain an answer the date of the sonogram? Because j' yesterday evening supervised the raised version and they indicated when Kate obtained in Claire' ; taxi of S qu' it was almost 8 months of d' embarrassed. Its length of the pregnancy n' did not change so much original chronology. http://www.peuytrghj.com/

Miles Balzard said...

Haha, I can tell Mike loved this episode as much as I did from the effusive praise he gushes forth at the beginning of the recap! But maybe he didn't love it quite as much as I did, since it pushed its way firmly into my top 10 episodes ever! Of course, as an original Locke man, I was thrilled to see the old Locke, even if it was in a sideways universe. It reminded me of why I identified with him so much, though I still identify a bit more with the pre-Othersville Island Locke even more than sideways Locke.

Most remarkably, they made the Man in Black much more relatable than he had been before, making me wonder how evil he might really be? I guess he's still a bad guy, but his speech to Sawyer in the jungle was a revelation, talking about being trapped and knowing joy, pain, anger, fear, etc. Veteran actor Terry O'Quinn really nailed that scene, as he did in virtually every scene in the episode!

And right after that scene, Ben performed such an amazing and sardonic little eulogy for Locke when they buried his mortal body! Michael Emerson steals every scene he's in, even the ones with O'Quinn (especially when O'Quinn is playing dead).

Sideways Plot: Nobody could watch Locke tumbling onto his lawn and having the sprinklers suddenly turn on without feeling sympathy for the old codger. At least Helen is now at his side, which brings up John and Helen as perhaps the fifth greatest love story on the show? As they converse, it becomes clear to me that Locke is probably not in a wheelchair due to his father, and I'm doubting he got scammed into donating a kidney either. I think he ended up in a wheelchair because of what Eloise Hawking told Desmond long ago: nature will make a course correction to get to the right destiny. Locke needed to be in a wheelchair and if his dad didn't do it then something else had to.

I hope Hurley fires that douche at the box company! But at least Locke ends up as a teacher, where he meets Ben in the teacher's lounge. Now I don't know how long they can keep Ben in this particular world, but I want as much as they can possibly give me!

And HUGO! You awesome millionaire, lucky as Lady Luck could make him! So satisfying to see him happy and confident like that! Rose was also terrific in her scene with Locke. We all begin to see the marvelous possibilities of this sideways universe, so I'm not even going to question the logistics!

More Island Plot: Ilana's bold toughness reminds me of Ana Lucia, but Ilana clearly has a ton of insider knowledge that separates her from that audacious, brassy (and dead) cop. They barely even set up what Ilana's destiny will be, but she's not taking crap from anyone while pursuing whatever mission she's on.

The scene with Smokey flying around the island was thrilling, and then he formed back into Locke before making a new enemy of Richard. But when he finally recruited Sawyer from his drunken state, the final astonishing scenes play out. The climb down the ladder was spectacular and the scenes in the cave finally revealed the reason for the numbers. Ah, so these are the candidates! At least, the ones that didn't leave an open question (Christian, Jack, Sun and Jin).

Well, this post was a bit too much like a recap itself, but that's probably because I enjoyed the episode so much and couldn't resist mentioning some of the scenes. THIS was the episode that proved the writers knew what they were doing and set the roadmap for the rest of the final season! Though since this is Lost, I'm sure there will be plenty of surprising detours and probably a completely different map before all is said and done.

But you said it best, Mike: "I am totally on board with what's going on and am enjoying every second of it."

Mike V. said...

Every villain has an origin story, right? And on LOST, we always get to see both perspectives of our bad guys. Of course, at this point they really haven't made it clear if we should be trusting Man in Black or Jacob or neither. Anyway, the only person that I don't think they ever provided background on why he's such an awful dude was Keamy. That guy was just straight up bad guy and he was great at it! lol

But yeah..I did love this episode. I'd have to list out my favorite episodes ever to see if I had room in my top 10 for it though. :-) I've definitely watched season 6 the least amount of times (maybe 4 instead of 20 lol Okay, maybe I haven't seen the others 20 times but my point is the same! lol) So, it's tough for me to rank them among some of the other series classic eps. There are some episodes this season that I do rank very high though.

Loved Ben's eulogy!! And Frank's comment right after. Great great moment. Starting to remember why this ep was so great. lol

Interesting thought on the course correction with Locke in the wheelchair!

Ahhh Randy, he had quite the little "behind the scenes" story in the flashbacks of the show. It was nice to see him show up again in the sideways world. (not sure if you pieced together Randy's promotion to the Box Company after Hurley quit the chicken shack and won the lottery. lol)

Interesting...I don't ever think I considered Christian being a candidate by seeing Shephard on the cave wall. lol But yes, they did provide an answer for the numbers. I liked this reveal here...even though some people probably thought it was TOO easy and really didn't make sense. I liked that the showrunners said "this is what answers on LOST look like".

Exactly...this show was crazy if you really stop and think about it. But, I loved every minute of the ride. Well most minutes, there was Jack's tattoo incident. lol But, I'd watch it again on a rewatch!! lol

Hunter said...

Hey Mike! I haven't had a chance to watch Lost lately thanks to the craziness that is college starting back up. I'm also still trying to recover from my favorite character's death...Juliet. You knew how much I loved her. Seeing her die really took a toll on me. And geez it looks like it took a toll on Sawyer as well! RIP Juliet.

Loved this episode and loved seeing the numbers brought back. However, I am incredibly interested as to why Kate's name was not up on that wall with a number. Hopefully they will address that and let us know. At this point, I desperately need a Jacob-centric and Flocke-centric episode to try to alleviate some of the confusion that I have going on in my head. But I am loving this final season so much and cannot wait to see how this series ends. Talk to you soon!