Wednesday, May 12, 2010

LOST: Season 6 Episode 15 - Across the Sea

Hello LOSTIES!!!!  It's sad to think I will only be saying this in front of a LOST Recap 2 more times after this one.  But, at least we should have all GREAT EPISODES to discuss and Instant Classics if you ask me!  For me, this one was yet another WOW!!!!! episode in a series of awesomely awesome WOW WORTHY EPISODES!    We got several answers and even expanded the Island mythology even though we'll be wrapping up in 3.5 more hours.  Sure, nothing was extremely SHOCKING in the episode, but it was still great to see it all and I think it was a necessary back-story to prep us for the end game.  I already have been reading some initial reactions and they seem disappointed with what we got and are most concerned with the fact that the Man in Black does not have a name yet.  I beg to differ folks!  We most certainly have a name, and it is what I may start calling him by the end of this recap until I'm told differently!  I can see why the episode may not have been what people were expecting, and with so few hours left in the show it gets even more frustrating when an episode doesn't meet expectations.  But that's when I need to tell everyone to CHILL, sit back, relax and enjoy the information we ARE getting.   It's all going to be over soon and this information we learned may prove very worthwhile for the 3.5 hour end game of last that is approaching.  There will be plenty of time from May 24th until the end of eternity to scrutinize how Damon and Carlton brought their 6 year complicated opus to a conclusion. And it's going to be tough for me to not ask any questions, even knowing that every answer will bring more questions!  (Eve taught me that!)  But, I don't think these Island Inhabitants of yesteryear know that this is what us LOST Addicts do!  So, let's move on and do what we do best!

Across the Sea - AWAY from the Island.  There is a land out there, yet some characters we have met have never seen it.  We took a break from the present day Island story to see the origin stories of both Jacob and the Man in Black (or for a lot of this episode, he was the BOY in Black)!  We follow them from birth to their undoing.  And we met a new character along the way, played by an awesome Allison Janney!    I think this episode was a bit therapeutic simply for the fact that it took us away from the dreary and mournful story that we are about to resume next week.  We lost some major characters last week and instead of bringing us right back into the fold, we get to continue our private mourning while learning a little bit more about why it may have happened!   Time to dive in folks.  One storyline to follow, so it shouldn't be too difficult to follow along this week! 

The Birth
(Some time before 1823) 

We open up on a wreck in the middle of the ocean.  There is a woman floating by and is still alive.  She catches a glimpse of that all too familiar Island!  Before long, we see her unconscious on the beach along with wreckage from a ship.  She is clearly pregnant!  (Was anyone else thinking twins immediately?)   She moves inland and finds drinking water.  Wow, compared to Jack she found that stuff really quickly!


  • Note: I stated before 1824 because we know Richard arrived in 1867 and we know it's been AT LEAST 43 years that Jacob were on the Island prior to Richard's arrival (we get 2 numbers during the episode.  13 Years after the birth and then 30 years after that).  But, if I were a betting man, I would guess that it had to be longer than that!   But at least late enough when SHIPS were sailing the ocean blue! 
  • Anyway, it is not long before we meet another woman (played by Allison Janney).  I'd love to give you a name, but we never get one.  Of course, there is a name that I will call her but considering we don't learn it until the end of the episode I'm going to have to keep you in the dark a little longer!  (you know for a whole rambling blog!)  

  • I'll make it easier by calling Red Dress woman Claudia since we do eventually learn her name.  And isn't it ironic that she was wearing a "RED SHIRT" so to speak? 
  • Island Woman speaks in Latin (ahh the language of the enlightened and of THE OTHERS) to Claudia and offers her help.   Claudia speaks Latin back (I think).  Perhaps a sign of when this episode took place in the timeline?   Eventually, they begin speaking English, but maybe we're meant to assume that the entire episode was really spoken in Latin but just for the sake of our ears and the actors/actresses LEARNING 45 minutes worth of Latin dialogue, we got English!
  • Island Woman takes Claudia to THE CAVE!  (The same cave that MIB led Jack to in season 1 appearing as Christian Shephard.   It just turned out that this cave used to be the home of Jacob, MIB and this Island Lady!)    Now, of course, this early in the episode I think we could sense that we were going to get an answer to the question that has plagued us since way back in the beginning of the first season.   The question that we have theorized on forever.  The question that executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse claim that they placed so early in the show so that they could PROVE they knew what they were doing from the beginning.   We do get that answer at the end of this episode.   Are you sold?  I'd say I'm about 50% sold.  But I'll tell you one thing.  I totally called 50% of the answer weeks ago and no one believed me!  But, that's for later in the blog as well. 

  • Claudia asks the Woman where the rest of her people are.   The Woman says that it's only her.  She states that she arrived on this Island the same way that Claudia did, by ACCIDENT.   The woman dresses Claudia's wounds.  
  • Claudia begins to ask how long she has been there but the Woman interrupts stating "Every question I answer will only lead to another question."  Ahhh, such is the tale of  6 seasons of LOST.  And such is the tale of what Damon and Carlton have been telling us.  They're providing answers, but it's only going to make us ask what happened before that.   So if this woman was the predecessor to Jacob and MIB, then who came before her?  How did she get there?  How long has she been there?   How long was the person before her there?  And so on and so forth....all the way until you get back to the Big Bang (creation of the Universe)....and then someone will ask....well what came before the Big Bang?   The questioning will never end.   This is both the beauty of LOST and the frustration of LOST.  But we love it anyway! 
  • Claudia wants to find the rest of her crew.   This woman says that if there are other people on the Island that SHE will find them.   We were told that everything this woman says will need to be analyzed and re-watched, but sometimes I think a line of dialogue can just be a line of dialogue.  But it was kind of creepy the way that she said it. 
  • And then Claudia goes into labor.  The pushing begins and then Island Woman delivers the baby! His name?   Claudia immediately names him, JACOB!  The Michael Giacchino theme for Jacob begins to play.  NICE.  But it is interrupted by Claudia screaming again.  Oh yes, there was a 2nd child!  Another boy.  Of course, we already know that this is the BOY IN BLACK (BIB).   Claudia did not expect a 2nd child and states that she only picked one name.   DOH!!   I couldn't help but laugh here.  We all think we're going to get the name but then she just doesn't have one for him.  I mean come on people.  That is funny stuff!   Also funny was that she wrapped up Jacob in a white blanket and the BIB in a Black blanket.  Good times! 

  • But one question we'll be asking...did Claudia seal her fate by only asking to see "HIM" instead of "THEM"?   It would appear she was disregarding the Boy in Black before she even gave him a chance.   The Island woman simply gets up and says "I'm sorry" and then bashes in Claudia's skull with a rock.  OUCH!   And thus...Island Woman became the "CRAZY MOTHER" that Flocke had talked about a few episodes back to Kate.  And I believe Doc Jensen has already dubbed her as MOTHER OF THE OTHERS!  (since Jacob does initiate the OTHERS organization with Richard later on)   

  • Anyway, did Fake Mom see this as her way out of her current predicament?   Was Claudia doomed to die regardless of her feelings towards BIB?   Probably...but it sure seemed like it was the reason that she gravitated towards BIB over Jacob.   

Childhood
(13 Years Later)

The Game
We revisit Jacob and The Boy in Black years later into their early teenage years.  We confirm that Jacob is indeed the Ghost Boy we've been seeing on the Island in present day.   The Boy in Black has found a game on the beach.  Jacob runs up and sits on a log with BIB to discuss. 
  • The game with the black and white stones is an obvious call back to a few things.  Adam and Eve, yet again who were seen with Black and White stones in their pouch.  Also, in season 1 with Locke and Walt playing Backgammon and Locke explaining how old the game was and how there were 2 sides.  One is Light and One is Dark.   And of course, finally we have seen that Jacob and the Man in Black also have been exchanging White and Black stones as a bit of an inside joke to who just won the latest battle.  We now see that this theme goes back to early in their childhood when they were close brothers and good friends.  (Hurley - Who killed you?  Jacob - An old friend that got tired of my company)  
  • BIB explains that he just knows how to play the game and he will teach Jacob how to play as long as he doesn't tell their mother.   The game looks very much like the Egyptian Game of Senet, something that many of this blog's commenters have brought up on various occasions (as recently as last week!)   We know that there are various ties to Egyptian lore on this show, and it's looking like we may never really get to see WHEN or WHY that started.  (or how the statue got built...but alas, we go back to the Big Bang Questioning again.  We know the Island is old and we know many people were brought there over the years.  Maybe that's enough)    Anyway, here's more Egyptian stuff!
  • Jacob promises to keep quiet and wants to play the game. 

One on One Time with Jacob (at the Caves)
  • We see stand-in Mom creating a tapestry.  Hmmmm, well now we know how Jacob learned the skill of making one.  But, we may even learn WHY he was making one by the end of the episode. 
  • Fake Mommy Dearest asks Jacob where his brother is, to which she already knows Jacob is keeping something.  He tells her that BIB is at the beach staring out at the ocean.  Already, early hints that this boy wanted to get off of that rock!    And of course, we can't forget that Jacob told Hurley that Jack needed to stare out at the ocean to figure out for himself what he needed to do next.   Doesn't seem to fit with BIB staring out at the ocean, but I thought it was worth bringing up. 
  • Jacob offers up his help with the tapestry.  Yep, he's learning!
  • Mother Other asks what they were doing down at the beach.  Jacob wasn't very good in his lie.  She asks him if he loves her to which he responds yes.  (interesting question, right?)   She demands the truth.  
One on One Time with the Boy in Black (at the Beach)
  • We immediately strike upon the better bond between BIB and Other Mom when they're all smiles and kind of making fun of Jacob behind his back.  BIB realizes that Jacob told her about the game.  It is interesting that she told him that Jacob doesn't know how to lie, "He's not like you."  If we're meant to listen to every word she has to say, then I would say that's an important thing to remember!  Of course, we already know that Flocke put together one long con to get where he is now with 3 Candidates out of 6 dead.  (and Jacob dead of course) 
  • Faux Mom tells BIB that he is special, which it would seem she was grooming HIM to be her replacement.  
  • He asked if he could keep the game which she said that he could as she left it for him in the first place.  BIB was hoping that it came from somewhere other than that Island...somewhere Across the Sea.  She goes into LONG CON mode to try and convince him that there is nowhere off of that Island.  The Island is it.  Why would they know any different since they were born there and knew nothing else in life?
  • The questions start coming from BIB - Where did we come from?  She says that they came from her, she came from her mother....to which BIB asks where her mother is.   She tells him her mother is dead.   And of course, BIB has no idea what DEAD even means.  Fake Mom tells him that Dead is something he will never have to worry about.  
Here for a Reason
  • We next fine Jacob and MIB running after a boar with their hunting sticks.  But before they can catch up with it, someone else drives a steak into the boar instead.   They have never seen other people like the on the Island, so they immediately go to their "mother". 




  • She says that these people are not like them and do not belong there.  And then she explains that they are there for a reason.   She is about to tell them but then hesitates thinking that it is not time yet.  
  • She brings them blindfolded through the jungle, to which we learn is so that they cannot find their way back there.   She tells them on the way that she knew about the people and that they are dangerous.   She then says that what makes them dangerous is the same thing that makes ALL MEN dangerous.  "They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt...it always ends the same."   Some may recall the Man in Black telling Jacob this the first time we met them during the Season 5 Finale.   She then lies telling BIB that they come from another part of the Island and that he should not go looking for them.  
  • She says that they will hurt them because they are people and that is what people do.  BIB then asks if they can hurt each other since they are people too.  She removes their blindfolds and tells them as she touches them (in a future Jacob-like sorta way) "I've made it so you could never hurt each other".......interesting.....Perhaps when you are the PROTECTOR OF THE ISLAND, you can make up your own rules?   Was this the reason that MIB couldn't kill Jacob himself?  And why he needed to find a loophole?   Or is she some crazy kind of deity that just has these super powers?  I am more inclined to believe that these "powers" are passed from one protector to the next.   

  • Then she turns them around and she shows them some a BRIGHT GOLD LIGHT going into some kind of cave.   "This is the reason we're here."    Seems pretty important, right!?   She warns them to not go in there.   What's down there?  LIGHT.  (nooooo really?)    The warmest, brightest light they have ever seen or felt.  And their reason for being there is to make sure that no one will ever find it.   BIB exclaims how beautiful it is.  The Mother explains how a little bit of this light is inside of every man, but they always want more.  Jacob asks if they can take the light.  She tells them that they can't but if they try it may put it out.  And if the light goes out, it goes out everywhere......ummmmm APOCALYPSE anyone?   All because of a little Nightlight?     I'll admit, I was a little underwhelmed at this "protect the light" concept at first...but then they started adding to it during the episode, and I found it a little more interesting.   A fellow commenter on the blog (AUStarWars, who requested I give him credit if I used this reference) made note to talk about the almighty mysteriously glowing BRIEFCASE in Pulp Fiction.  We never truly learn what is in that briefcase but the fact that we don't know what is in there is what drives so much debate.   LIGHT inside Man?  Yeah...we may need to wait until conversation #2 with this woman to discuss this Glowing Light further.   But at this point we all were pretty much saying...."REALLY??"    

  • She told them that she has protected this place but that she won't be here forever.  Then looks at the both and tells them that it will have to be one of them.  We leave this scene with the Fake Mom looking at BIB and him staring with excitement over the cave.  


The Rules
We return to the game of senet that Jacob and BIB are playing.  Of course, BIB seems to be making up his own rules to the game. 
  • The Boy in Black tells Jacob that he can't pull off a move he just did because it's against the rules. Jacob is frustrated because BIB made up the rules.  He says that he found the game and one day Jacob can make up rules for people to follow too.  The ultimate foreshadowing of future events.   This is kind of why I was suggesting above that maybe the PROTECTOR of the Island can make up their own rules, especially if Faux Mom "made it so" they couldn't "hurt" each other.   Maybe Jacob put some protective bubble over Charles Widmore so Ben couldn't kill him either?   What about all of the time travel rules and how rules in general don't apply to Desmond?  Is it all related?   The producers have pretty much said that they have no intentions of explaining ALL of the rules just simply stating the fact that there ARE rules and how they come about is the key.  So it would seem that these scenes are what are defining how rules get put into place.   Satisfied?  Probably not everyone, but I'm cool with it.  Of course, I have also been accused of being too easy on the show.  So sue me for enjoying a television show and writing about it with unabashed glee!  I don't care.  At the end of the day, I still enjoyed it!  (yes, I got attacked on Twitter for praising this episode)

  • And after BIB has had is fun rubbing in his rules to Jacob, he then sees the GHOST of Claudia (his true mother) roaming around.  Granted, he has no idea who she is.   And also interesting to note....Jacob cannot see her!  
  • BIB excuses himself and moves towards the ghost.  He asks why Jacob cannot see her.  She says that it's because she's dead.  Ummm, Okay, so then why can HE see her?   And don't even tell me this is foreshadowing that Hurley is going to become the next smoke monster!   Of course, we know Desmond and Sawyer both saw Ghostly Visions of Kid Jacob as well.  So what does THAT mean? 
  • Claudia asks the Boy in Black to come with her so that she can show him where he comes from.   He follows her across the Island to a camp with huts and lots of people.  Who are they?   Well they are the other people that were on Claudia's ship.
  • We are told that they came 13 years ago and that their ship was wrecked in a storm (hmmm, another storm.  We know something is coming on this!  I figured it would be in this episode.  Not so much!)   She explains to him what a ship is since he never heard of one.  It is how they came across the sea.  She explains that there are many things across the sea.  Naturally, this is the start of his interest being very high of getting off of the Island.  Of course, now it makes more sense of him wanting to get off of the Island to "go home".  It doesn't necessarily mean that he wanted to go back to be with his family or anything like that.  He just knows that he wasn't supposed to be born on that Island and he wants to see what is OFF of the Island.    Of course, this is assuming that this Boy is still whatever is driving the consciousness of the Smoke Monster.  But we'll get to that below.  
  • Claudia breaks it to BIB that she is his mother not that other lady.    He didn't look to thrilled to learn that! 


Leaving
  • Boy in Black goes back to the cave to grab some stuff and Jacob and then he takes him out into the jungle.  He tries to reason with Jacob and tell him that they are never going back and that their "mother" lied to them all of this time.  That their real people were the people on the other side of the Island.   Jacob just refused to believe it and ended up beating BIB to a bloody pulp.  Woaaaa easy there Jacob!   And what is up with the "HURTING"?   Didn't we just learn that she made it so they couldn't hurt each other?  Perhaps it was just not able to KILL each other?  Or maybe she never did anything and it was a rule that JACOB put into action?  Or maybe I'm looking too much into this?   In either case, Jacob has a bit of a mean edge to him as well!  But we had seen that in Ab Aeterno also. 



  • Fake Mom breaks up the fight and is horrified at what Jacob has done to his brother.  He explains that BIB is planning on leaving to go to THEM.   BIB explains that he knows now what happened.  He knows he is from across the sea, that she murdered their mother.   He then pleads with Jacob to come with him as neither of them belong with her.  Jacob refuses to go with.   Then the "mother" pleads with BIB and tells him that he will NEVER be able to leave this island.  She looks dead serious too.   He refuses to believe her and says he will prove it one day.   And then he left. 
  • The next day is a pretty defining day into the future destiny of Jacob.  Jacob learns that BIB will not return and also his fake mother admits to killing his real mother.   She says that if she had let his mother live, she would have taken Jacob back to her people who are bad people.  She couldn't let him become one of them.  He needed to stay good.  So what do we think?  Is this what inspires Jacob to start making lists and kidnapping children when the 815ers crash on the Island?   Did he have anything to do with that or was that Ben calling the shots?  It would seem that he wants to prove to MIB in the future that people are inherently good and that he shouldn't have to interfere to prove this.  So, I give the question about "why did the OTHERS take the children" an ALMOST answer!   But there is still plenty of room for debate. 


  • Jacob then questions whether he is good or not and asks why this woman loves the Boy in Black more than him.   Her response is that she loves them in different ways.  Um...interesting!  Not sure if this ever sits well with Jacob considering his reaction 30 years from then.   But in any case, this woman asks Jacob to stay with him and he does accept that he will stay "for awhile".  

Adulthood
(30 Years Later)


We catch up with Jacob who is now working on that tapestry by himself.  It is most likely the same one that they were working on 30 years prior.  As we recall, Jacob spoke to MIB and Ben of how long it takes to make one and to actually make the thread.  "But I guess that's the point."  The tapestry looks near completion and Jacob asks what his fake mother thinks about the end result.  She looks less than thrilled but tells him it is very nice.  When Jacob asks if she is okay, she responds that she is just tired.  






The beginnings of the Jacob/MIB Conflict
We catch Jacob watching the shipwrecked crew who have all been there for 30 years now.  And of course, he has been watching his brother, the now fully grown Man in Black, as well.  


  • It looks like Jacob and MIB have been meeting behind their fake mother's back for years now.  And they continue to play their game of senet. 
  • MIB regrets asking about the woman as she never asks about him.  We should note that Jacob acts very childish in this scene, but considering he has had no human interaction besides his "mother" and sometimes his brother, maybe that's to be expected?   
  • Anyway, MIB asks why Jacob watches them.  And Jacob says that he wants to know if their "mother" is right about MIB's people and if they're bad.  The man in black admits that the woman is insane ("I too had a crazy mother") but that she's definitely right about the people being "bad people".   Jacob doesn't really see it.  He said it's easy for Jacob to judge from above, but he has lived among them for 30 years.  They are greedy, manipulative, untrustworthy, and selfish.   He is only with them as a means to an end.  This is most certainly the beginning of their conflict that we see repeated in Ab Aeterno with Richard and the opening scenes of season 5's The Incident.  Jacob trying to prove that man is inherently good and MIB proving that all men are corruptible.  
  • MIB wants to leave the Island and tells Jacob he has found a way off.  Jacob said that it's impossible and that there is no way off of the Island.  Then out of nowhere, MIB takes his infamous knife and throws it at the well behind him, and what do you know?  IT STICKS to the side!  oooooooh magnetism!   Although, they have no idea what to call it since they have lived on this Island their whole loves and who knows how much the outside world knew of Magnetism/Electromagnetism in whatever year it is?   I'm sure someone on wikipedia knows!   It is interesting that this wiki entry dates awareness of magnetism back to 625 B.C. however the discovery of Electricity and Magnetism causing compass needles to spin is around 1819.  And we all remember Flocke explaining to Desmond how people wanted to see why their compass needles were spinning when they walked to certain points of this Island and so they started to dig, right?   Anyway, I've imagined Jacob and MIB's conflict having gone on for much longer than the early 1800s but it is interesting nevertheless!



  • Anyway, I got a little sidetracked!  Jacob  looks shocked at this magic of the knife sticking to the well.  MIB explains that there are very smart men among his people.  Men who are curious about how things work.  They have discovered places all over the island where "metal behaves strangely".  When they find one of these sites, they dig.  Just as Flocke described to Desmond a few episodes back.  But this time?  They found something.  (more on that in a bit)
  • MIB asks Jacob to come with him, asking what he's going to do when their fake mother dies.  Jacob states that she's never going to die.   MIB, in perhaps a foreshadowing comment, states that "everything dies".   Jacob states that he doesn't want to leave this place as it is his home.  MIB retorts that it isn't his.   He will stop at nothing to leave the Island. 
Fake Mother Foils the Plan
  • Jacob returns to the cave and his "mother" asks him where he was.  Jacob assumes that she knows where he was.   So, as we learned, Jacob is no good at lying.  It would seem she knew he has been meeting with MIB all along.  
     
  • Jacob tells her that the Man in Black has finally found a way to leave the island.  She seems very concerned about this.  
  • She heads out into the jungle to confront her former favorite fake son herself.  She heads to the well and waits for everyone to walk away from it.  Then, she heads down the ladder.   MIB is there playing with the fire.  I looked for some symbolism with the hot coals and the fact that he kept prodding at it, but I got nothing!  Foreshadowing of his smokey fate?  Maybe...but let's move on!   Fake Mama is there!



  • He turns to face a potential attacker but then sees that it's her and he permits her to join him.   She is worried and MIB states that she should be.  He has been searching for that cave of beautiful light for 30 years.  He has become obsessed with it, but not once has been able to find it.   But then he began to think what if he could get to the light underneath the Island from some other place?   The people he is with have seen this too and have some very interesting ideas on what to do with it.   He shows his angst towards his "mother" in stating that she wouldn't tell him what they were dealing with.  He then starts prying away at the rocks in the cave, and sure enough, there is that bright light!  And what else?  Yep, there is a large wheel standing upright in the cave. The pieces start coming together.  It's the Donkey wheel that was located underneath the Orchid station!  The one that moves the Island through time and space and the one that shoots people off of the Island into Tunisia.  WOA!!!  Totally never expected them to answer where that wheel came from! 



  • MIB says they're going to make an opening and then he will attach the wheel to a system they're building that channels the water and the light.  And then he's going to turn the wheel, and when he does, he will finally be able to leave this place.  

  • Very interesting.  First of all, I'm not going to comment on whatever year it is and that these people would be smart enough to know how to build a system so advanced that they could generate some kind of wormhole that would transport people off of the Island.  But, I do like the fact that they addressed it.  The wheel has been part of MIB's fascination all along.  Smokey advised Locke to move the Island which sent Ben and eventually him off of the rock and working into his eventual loophole to killing Jacob and getting to the point he is at now.  It's been his since the beginning.  So, when we see Christian Shephard in that cave helping Locke in season 5, we now know that was not the Man in Black's first time down in that cave, and in fact he has a lot more history in it than we knew.     I still question why the wheel was frozen when Ben went there.  And I still suggest that it has something to do with Desmond blowing the hatch at the end of season 2 and stopping the moving island in its tracks (and allowing Charles Widmore and Penny Widmore to locate the Island and get to it).   But that is a theory, I'm afraid, that I'll be carrying with me after this show is over!   Unless it somehow plays into the end game of the show.   Like I said though, I'm pretty excited that the Donkey Wheel made its way back into the story and that they felt this was an essential answer to provide!    
  • Of course, we never see this wheel completed prior to the extermination of these scientifically advanced folk on the Island.  So, I do question how it WAS completed!  But I'm getting ahead of myself.  
  • "Mother" stresses that he should not go.  But MIB keeps claiming that he is special and that he does not belong here.  It keeps stressing how badly he wants to leave this Island.   So his fake "mother " then seemingly gives up and tells him goodbye.  They embrace but then just as she had said to his real mother, she apologizes and then runs MIB into the wall knocking him unconscious.   I thought for sure that she killed him, but not so much!  She had other plans instead. 





Back to the Cave of Light
We next join the woman with Jacob walking back to the place he took him and his brother when they were children.  She wakes him up in the cave and tells him "It's time."  
  • On the way she tells Jacob that she had to say goodbye to his brother.  She doesn't have a choice but to let him go, it's what he wants.  Hmmm, really?   Is she lying to Jacob here too?  Because she most certainly did not let him go! 
  • She brings him to the LIGHT Cave and then tells Jacob that he is going to protect it now.   This is not a task that Jacob accepts very willingly.  But we'll get to that in a second. 


  • Jacob asks what is down there and the woman gets a little more descriptive.  She describes what is in the cave as "LIFE, DEATH, REBIRTH -  It's the Source, the heart of the island."  She asks him to promise her that whatever he does, he will not EVER go down there.   Jacob asks if he would die, to which she responds it would be worse than dying, much worse.   
  • Now, I think we know what that 2nd half of the discussion means by the end of this episode.  But as for what is in the cave, Life, Death, Rebirth - the heart of the Island.  Can we assume that this is why there are dead spirits roaming around the Island?   Sure, not sure it would explain why they are OFF of the Island too (following Hurley around).  But when she makes a comment that if the light goes out there, it goes out everywhere..that sure sounds like it's talking about the rest of the world.  What about this REBIRTH comment?  Could that possibly explain how Sayid was brought back?  Could this energy have been flowing in the Temple Spring?  (of course, tainted somehow by the Man in Black)    Or does the Rebirth solely have to do with what happens to the MIB?   Just throwing the questions out there.  I know there are no answers!  Something tells me they may leave it this vague and just allow us to speculate on it forever.   
  • One thing is for sure, this LIGHT that we are seeing, seems to be the same light that caused the Time Travel Flashes.   Maybe not the PURPLE SKY when Dez blew the hatch though (only because the producers have stated before that the light that surrounded the Island when it moved was different than the Purple light that surrounded the Island when Dez turned that key).   This LIGHT must be the "POCKET OF ENERGY" that the "healer" referred to in the Season 2 Rose and Bernard centric - S.O.S. episode and the same pocket of energy that Eloise Hawking referred to in Season 5's 316.  It is what creates the unique properties of the Island and apparently it is very important to protect it for the sake of the entire world.  That's what we get folks!  If anything, it raises the stakes of the end game of LOST.  Whether people like it or not is another matter all together.  I am fine with it.  I think more people will latch on when we see the characters we have become familiar with over 6 seasons dealing with what was set up in this episode.  3.5 hours left folks.  3.5 hours!  It's coming whether we like it or not! 
  • Anyway, the mother pulls out the infamous bottle of wine that we first say in the Ab Aeterno episode.   She pours Jacob a drink.  She says something in Latin here as she consecrates the wine (yes, I used that word intentionally).  Anyone that is versed in Latin can feel free to chime in on what she said! I'm sure it will be up on Lostpedia before we know it!  
      

  • She passes the cup to Jacob asking him to drink it.  By drinking it he accepts the responsibility to protect this place for as long as he can, and then he'll have to find his replacement.  So, she pretty much admits to killing Claudia and raising these kids to eventually replace her.  Did she BRING this ship to the Island?   Did she cause the storm that wrecked the ship?   Similar to possibly Jacob causing a storm that brought the Black Rock there?  3.5 hours folks, 3.5 hours! 
  • But, what we are treated to is finding out how reluctant Jacob was to accepting this responsibility.  She mentions that her time is over and that he must do it.  Interesting in that she pretty much knew when her death was coming, similar to Jacob knowing that his was coming.  Jacob felt that she was only asking him as a last resort because she had favored the Man in Black.  She tells him that it was always supposed to be him and she sees that now.  She mentions that one day Jacob will see it too, but in the meantime, he doesn't really have a choice.  
  • I know I'm getting sidetracked but I have to ask while I'm thinking about it.  So, when does Jacob learn how to leave the Island?  As far as he is concerned, there is no way off of the Island.  When you become the CHOSEN one, do you just eventually "SEE IT" as the woman mentions above?   We know he does leave the Island MANY times.   And did SHE ever leave the Island to scope out her replacements?  Every question answered leads to more questions! 
  • Anyway, Jacob does reluctantly take the cup of wine and takes a drink from it.   The woman then tells him that he is now like her. 


  •  So did drinking from the cup make Jacob immortal and give him the crazy healing powers and all of that fun stuff?  Or did drinking from the cup just make him immortal?  Does drinking the wine signify you are the next person to protect the Island?  I ask because the first thing I thought of was Jacob offering RICHARD the wine.  Maybe it wasn't Jacob's touch that made him immortal but it was drinking this wine.  And if that's the case, MIB smashed the bottle of wine, so what would be the ritual for the next protector of the Island?   And is the fact that Richard is immortal signifying that he was always next in line to replace Jacob all of this time?   It would sure seem like a huge waste of a season to protect these candidates if that was the case, right?   Anyway, interesting questions regardless, but this scene signified the start of Jacob's reign as ISLAND PROTECTOR. And it was very interesting and very fitting to see that he didn't want the job. 

Back at the Donkey Well (heh heh, get it?)

MIB wakes up from his unconscious spell and sees that there was a path of destruction that occurred during his slumber.   The well is completely filled.  This is very interesting considering the fact that at some point in time (early in time), John Locke lowered himself into that well where there was a completed donkey wheel lodged into the wall of this pocket of energy.  Later on we see Sawyer try to jump in and the well is filled but that was in 1974.  So did MIB dig it back up again?  Again, I think it will be left to speculation. 


  • The filled in well certainly didn't look as destroyed as this one either.  Maybe that well was NOT the eventual "Orchid Well" where the wheel was placed.  But it would seem like that is what they were trying to show us in this episode.  Oh well, I won't harp on it much longer! 
  • MIB sees a cloud of smoke and run towards the village where he spent the last 30 years.  All of the huts have been burned down and the people were exterminated.  They posed a threat to the Island and had to be dealt with.   Does this remind anyone of any other exterminations on the Island?  2 come to mind for me - Richard justifying killing the US Military that posed a threat in the 1950's and the Others wiping out the DHARMA Initiative in the purge of 1992.   Same concept?   It would seem so.   But here's the big question, how did this woman manage to destroy that well and kill all of these people on her own?   I had speculated briefly that maybe she had taken a dip herself in the LIGHT CAVE which may have made her a little bit smoke empowered (not to spoil what's ahead), but the fact that we witness her murder and see her remains in 2004 makes me think that this is not the case. (oh man, I'm just spoiling everything!) 


  • MIB is clearly not happy with what has gone down here.   He finds his little game that his "mother" gave him so many years ago and has a bit of a breakdown.  And this breakdown quickly turns to anger. 

Storm is Coming
Jacob and his "mother" are walking in the jungle back from the LIGHT CAVE and they hear a roar of thunder.  Jacob notes that a storm is coming to which she agrees.  She knows her time is up and she sends him off to get some firewood.  Is there a significance to the STORM arriving before this significant moment in Island history?  Maybe.  3.5 hours folks!  His "mother" gives him some parting words that meant more than just getting firewood.  "Be Careful."  



LOSTIES?  Meet Eve!

Back at the cave, the woman arrives and not long after she sees that there have been some changes since her last time there.
  • The tapestry was destroyed!  (perhaps motivation for Jacob to make a new one that took him over 140 years?)  And of course, by the time he was finished it was time for him to die.  How ironic!

  • Then she notices something in the cave that has not been there for 30 years.  Yes, the Man in Black's Senet game.  
  • The circle is complete.  She pulls out a white and black stone from the game and holds up the black stone to her face. Before she even has a chance to utter one word, a knife is stabbed through her back and through her heart in the cave where Jack, Kate, Locke and crew found 2 dead bodies all of those years later.  Immediately, we recognize that this woman is indeed EVE!  Yes, it may not be her real name, but it'll be so much easier to call her that.   And at this point, I pretty much knew that my prediction on Adam was about to come true!   RIP EVE, you were one crazy but significant lady in your brief stint on LOST! 






  • Do we think that there is significance in the fact that she never spoke before being stabbed?  We know Jacob did speak before Ben killed him.  But they made such a big deal about using this knife and attempting to kill either Jacob or the Man in Black by stabbing them before they could speak.  In both cases, they spoke and it was too late.  I believe it was just due to their persuasive abilities and not the fact that it would prevent them from dying.  But, I still found it ironic that she didn't talk.
  • Of course, she did speak after being stabbed and she uttered the words "Thank You" twice to the Man in Black.  She also told him that she wouldn't let him leave because she loves him.   MIB is clearly upset over what he did and loved his fake "mother" too.  But his anger and desire to leave the Island seemed to get the best of him here.  (and will continue to do so)
    

The Origin of Smokey
Jacob arrives to the caves and witnesses the tragedy before him.  He isn't not too thrilled with his brother!  


  • The Man in Black, in tears, begs Jacob to listen to him.  But Jacob is furious.  He dives into him and begins to beat him just like he did 30 years prior.  



  • Jacob then drags him all the way to the LIGHT CAVE as MIB pleads along the way.  He says that their "mother" was crazy and that she burned them all.  He said that Jacob can't kill him.  "She made it that way."   I guess that answers the question.  They could beat each other up as much as they desire but he can not kill him.  Jacob told his brother not to worry as he is not going to kill him.  There just so happens to be a place on this Island he can take MIB where he can provide a punishment much worse than death! 



  • They arrive at the cave of beautiful light.  MIB is upset that she brought Jacob back here and wants to know why.  He tells him that he has to protect it now.  He then asks his brother if he wants to leave this place.   He then throws him into the water flowing towards the cave and tells him to go.  OH BOY!!  He goes in and drops down into the light.  And I think we all expected what was going to come out! 
  • The light in the cave seems to darken, and a familiar sound starts to come out of it.  And alas, the evil trapped within this cave of energy seems to have been released in the form of a column of black smoke!  The Man in Black has been stripped from his body and is now trapped in this smokey form (at least, that is one way to look at it).  



  • So, I guess Smokey was never meant to be a security system for the temple or the Island.  It's just what the French people consumed with the darkness assumed it was?   I guess that Jacob DID in fact create the smoke monster as I, among others, had speculated before.  But I never would have expected that he UNLEASHED some kind of evil on the Island in a revenge scheme!  Pretty fun turn of events if you ask me.  I still wonder how long ago this was though.  Because we did see engravings in the Smokey Cave in season 5 with the Smoke Monster on it.   Of course, even if this is AFTER the Egyptian times on the Island, maybe this Smoke was released once before on the Island but then put at bay.    I dunno, we can speculate forever, but we already have our BIG BANG Issue that the producers brought up.  We'll always ask what happened before.  Opportunity for some LOST Prequels I guess!  But, considering what happened to Star Wars, maybe we should not consider this!  Maybe the official LOST Encyclopedia will have a timeline of events to help clarify when everything took place.  And perhaps share a little more history that wasn't included in the show. 
  • Jacob runs further downstream, washes his face and then discovers the lifeless body of his brother.  We are reminded by what MIB told Richard in Ab Aeterno "He took my body".   We could speculate that MIB actually died and that Smokey is really a collaboration of ALL Evil and all dead spirits on the Island.  But, so much that has happened this season seems to have been motivated by the MAN in Black.  Yes, it can take the form of dead bodies or apparently belongings of dead people on the Island but the consciousness or soul in charge seems to be the Man in Black, right?  He is the one that wanted to find a loophole to get off of the Island.  He is the one that wanted to GET OFF of the Island!  He lost his body and is angry at Jacob for it.  He had a crazy mother.  He has experienced LOSS.   Yeah, maybe the Smoke Monster (Evil Incarnate) has an agenda OFF Island and maybe MIB's motives are also being used as an ends to a means.  But, now I'm just starting to sound a little bizarre.  It's at least worth discussing, but I have to think that Smokey and MIB are still one of the same.  We have just witnessed that he lost his bodily form.  His SOUL or ENERGY has been captured into this smoke form.  Thoughts anyone? 

'

  • We see that Jacob is torn up by this moment as well.  The 2 people he cared for most (and the only 2 people he knew) are now gone.  Of course, he will eventually realize that the Man in Black is still very present and he unleashed some trouble upon this Island and possibly the world. 
Adam and Eve

Jacob brings the Man in Black's body back to the cave and lays him down.  He also lays the woman they have known as their mother next to him.  2 people that loved each other very much, just in a different way than we expected.  He takes the black and white stones and puts them in a pouch and places them in the Man in Black's hands.   We see clips from Season 1 when Jack and Kate discover the bodies and Jack identifies the bodies as male and female.  We see John Locke chime in saying "our very own Adam and Eve".    What they seemed to have left out was the fact that Jack said the bodies (or their clothing) seemed to have decomposed over 40-50 years.  Clearly, that fact is no longer in play.  It can be justified by the fact that Jack is a spinal surgeon and not a forensics expert.  And of course, the Island is a special place and things may decompose a bit differently.  



(Why was Jack shirtless and Kate in her underwear? Remember Charlie stepping on the Beehive?)









  • In any case, you can all pat me on the back on my call back in "The Substitute" on suspecting that the Man in Black was Adam of Adam and Eve!  Yes, I know I got the details mixed up and Eve wrong but you gotta give me some credit on this one, right?   Here it was:

    "
    Let me just take a wild guess here.  Maybe ADAM is the Man in Black's body and his wife was Eve.   Maybe Jacob had a hand in their death's?   And maybe the Man in Black's eternal struggle for revenge has something to do with Jacob's hand in his wife's death.   MIB talks about still feeling a sense of LOSS.   Seems to tie in nicely, right?  Oh please, hold down your applause, I'll be signing autographs after the show!  Thank you thank you! "
  • Jacob watched over his "mother" Eve and his brother Adam for a little longer and then said goodbye to his brother.    And as we kept waiting for him to finish the sentence with ADAM or Joe or Billy or whatever......



BOOM LOST!!!!!! 

Like I said, I think we got 2 names in this episode.  2 very important names in the saga of LOST.  Adam and Eve.  Maybe some people didn't care about this mystery or how they came to be.  But there have been many also wondering for 6 years who they were and how they died just laying in a cave.  How crazy is it to know that Jacob, the Man in Black and the former protector of the Island used to live in the caves that Jack deemed worthy for the survivors to find shelter in?   The same caves that the Man in Black (as Christian Shephard) led Jack to?   And in the same episode learn the origins of the Frozen Donkey Wheel and know that the Man in Black was key to its creation?   I'm sorry but I found this episode very important and I know there are haters, but I just refuse to agree with them!  

So, Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse have been telling us pretty much since season 2 that once we learn the identities of Adam and Eve we will know for sure they were not making it up as they went along.  I have been speculating since before this season began that there is no way we could possibly think that with 100% confidence.  That being said, they did a great job tying it all together.   I think they may have had some idea where they were going with Smokey's character since season 1.  That the monster was portraying Christian Shephard. That Smokey was formerly a man that lived ont he Island and his role will be KEY to the end game of LOST.  I can believe that.  For the actual details of the woman being his mother and the relationship between Jacob and Adam?  I think that may have been a little more based on character developments since then.  But tying in the Black and White themes from season 1, the end of season 5, and the stones throughout this season was a nice touch that was put to great use in this episode.  I just thought it was a great job and a great history of the Island before our LOSTIES arrived to tell how the story "only ends once".    And that ending begins next week folks.  Are you ready for some EPIC storytelling?   I sure am!   The setup for the Series Finale starts next week.
I cannot wait to continue the story of our LOSTIES, but we have plenty to discuss this week as well.  Hope you enjoyed my ramblings as always and I'll see you next week for our final Tuesday episode.  NAMASTE!!


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501 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   401 – 501 of 501
Mike V. said...

Hello all! Just chiming in real quick to let you know there is the final audio official podcast with Damon and Carlton up on iTunes and probably at lost.abc.com. Just downloaded it to my phone and fully prepared to get teary eyed later when I listen to it on my way home! Lol

I'll catch up on the comments later or tomorrow!

Anonymous said...

i was playing with the number like i have been doing from season 1n and now the we know the numbers stand for lostes i found out something that's kind of kool but most likely means nothing take a look
4.locke-dead
8.reyes-alive
15.ford-alive
16.Jarrah-dead
23.shephard-alive
42.kwon-dead

now if u add 8+15=23
kool right could mean something just wanted to post it

Snafu11 said...

@"to all Negative Nacys" - You all need to chill a bit and not take everything so personally from what the writers are saying... I don't believe anyone thinks that they had 100% of all of this planned out. But a large arc of the story/theme started back in season one. I think too many people feel like they are owed something from this whole experience. They are constantly questioning and demanding answers, which is fine, assuming that their are any answers suitable for everyone. The catch is there isn't.

What good does it do (here or in your own lives) to look for just the negatives, and harp on where the things are perceived wrong?

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with debates but the under tone of anger and disappointment is what I don't understand.

I'm guessing by the tone/attitude that the writers, they are a bit tired of the nay sayers or the ones who just live to tare things down. Its their story to tell and they don't owe us anything. If people feel that they do then they are even more oblivious--it is a TV show get over it. You don't have to believe them. So what if even they are stretching the truth of how this has been playing out. Does it really matter...
We all have free will to turn on the TV every Tuesday night. And for 6 years we've done this.

I choose to enjoy the ride, and take the good with the not so good. It's not to say I will be 100% fine with the final ending whatever it turns out to be.


If nothing else this show allows people to reflect on the human condition through our main characters. We are all flawed by design. There are no perfect answers or endings, to this show or your own lives---IT IS WHATEVER YOU MAKE OF IT.

I'm off my soapbox now... sorry for the rant. Just felt it needed to be said in the waning hours of this show.

Big shout out to Mike V for your time & hard work, as well as some of the supporting posters--AuStars and even Florin to name a couple, who I think do a descent job of keeping things in perspective. Keep up the good work.

Snafu11 said...

My previous post was not directed at any one person on this sight but in general. My advanced apologies to any sensitive people who may feel I'm single them out.

Anonymous said...

Mike,

I have been doing a little research on the friend of a friend of a friend, lol. Does the name Reischman mean anything to you?

Bob said...

Kind of a late realization, but in the Desmond-centric episode, did anyone see a resemblance between the scene where Desmond finds Penny running in the stadium and the final scene in the movie "Heaven Can Wait" where the main character finds his soulmate again? I feel like this may have been done intentionally by the producers, the scenes are just too similar.

davidsalako said...

Listening to the podcast - my first time listening - I can't believe some very vocal folk really hated "Across the sea" - I loved the episode and wished it had been longer in order to explore Jacob's and MIB's adult relationships with others.
I am also certain that this episode was very revealing in ways that will not be completely apparent until the show is over.

Candidate said...

I'm way behind in comments but having fun reading. @ Veni Vidi Vicci thanks for the info on Kimmell. 3 Alt endings might not be a joke. This chime in is based on no info but just my own speculation. I wouldn't be surprised.

Thank you to all who tuned in to the lost tribute pt 1. There will be at least 1 edited repeat in a few days and pt.2 live this weekend.

@Mike
I believe the people that work on the show read this blog. I think they actually do read your recaps and have used some of your lingo through the scripts. When Hurley says "Good Times" to Jack while they are on their way to the Lighthouse you oughta just consider that a shout out to you. There have been a few other Hurley shout outs to bloggers throughout this season. I don't know anything for sure but that "Good Times" really hit a nerve. I felt pretty certain that was inspired by your writing. One more thing, the comment in your recap about the discussion on Senet made me feel "Special" lol.

BIG week comin' up pace yourself everyone.

Tues Show than
Wed Recap and later Times Talk Live
Countdown all weekend and SUNDAY

I'll be doing some late night catch up reading. Great stuff.

Anonymous said...

Greets:
Anyone watch an older episode after seeing this episode?
See if it changes your past experience...

Gary H

Florin Milea said...

@Sanfu11 - Thank you or the prop. I agree with you on principle but to show some balance here one important point have to be made.

It is their story to tell and we’re tuning in on our own free will, you and gnni4 are right. The ‘taking it personal’ is out of order

But what would they do if we would be tuning out? What would happen to that symbiotic relation in between the producer and the consumer? It would go to the trash.

I did a google on tv programs in markets that are not as discriminating as we are. The worst ‘B’ and trash, everything that didn’t past the quality test in US has been dumped over there. We can’t allow that to happen to us. On the other hand, all the “Negative Nancy’s” might wind up revising their attitudes if exposed to that, but who knows, they may get angrier.

To hate a good episode like ‘Across The Sea’ only show that some of those fans are just out of bounds.

Florin Milea said...

@Gary H - I didn't do that yet, but I am sure it will come.

Snafu11 said...

@florin - I hear what your saying but the symbiotic relationship. There have been far more marginal shows that have kept going in spite of poor ratings because of a strong vocal fan base. This show does not fit that bill. We are not the proverbial tail waving the dog. Although there have been some bumps in the rode, this series has been epic--and they are finishing strong. The one criticism I would give its that they may not have managed the strike shorten season well enough to fit everything in by the finale. I can empathize with the writers to some degree on their frustration with some of the viewer feedback/reactions.


All that said, I was just venting after getting caught up on the post and reading some of the articles about the last couple of episodes.

Just saw the TV guide synopsis of this week show, I had to peek. Don't look because it is a bit spoilerish with mention of who might be showing up this week.

sandi snowden said...

I just watched the pilot again and I am almost convinced that the MIB took over John Locke's body when the plane crash. He spent so much time looking out to sea, telling about the good and evil to walt with backgammon, being able to walk and always telling everyone the island was so wonderful from the start. He was starting a long con right from day one.

Glenn R. said...

Really good New York Times Interview with Damon & Carlton, with lots of fascinating tidbits to ponder...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/16/arts/television/16weblost.html?ref=television&pagewanted=print

Glenn R. said...

...and an interesting interview with Matthew Fox about the finale...


http://livefeed.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/05/matthew-fox-talks-lost-finale-.html

Mike V. said...

Happy LOST Finale Week everyone! Sad and exciting all at the same time! Before I get into the comment responses, here's a link to all of the LOST-related programming on in the next 7 days. Lots of Matthew Fox appearances, Jorge Garcia appearances, and then a Josh Holloway and a Michael Emerson appearance here and there.....and of course DARLTON on Kimmel Friday!

LOST FINALE WEEK PROGRAMMING

Mike V. said...

@Florin - I hear you on the podcasts. Too bad you can't download them, but they are a great listen. On lost.abc.com you can probably get to a streaming version of it...but if your download speeds are slow, I'm guessing streaming wouldn't be much better lol (actually the sports guy one woud be on espn.com under "page 2"

LOST is a one of a kind show and is the one that can be thanked for the audience interaction. The experience only begins with viewing the episode, then the fans take to the internet to find more meaning. So it definitely makes sense that you find yourself pondering all the intricacies of the episode every day of every week of every year lol The show is designed to do that. HENCE, the creation of this blog :-) lol Good times.

@Candidate - I guess it's possible that this is why Kate was crossed off, but the fact that Jack wanted to leave too and Sayid and Hurley....I don't know if we can single her out, but I guess it's possible. I still say there is a reason she isn't crossed off on the lighthouse dial and we're going to find out why.

If you can't find the EW issue....check out Disc 7 of the season 1 special features...there is an in-depth discussion on how LOST got started. It even stays relevant 6 years later! lol

@Florin - Thanks Florin! I appreciate the appreciation! :-) Yep, Legend is cancelled. I hadn't heard too many great things about the series, but I know it did have its loyal fanbase. Crazy that none of these shows that stretch the imagination can stay alive! I do agree that they at least were able to bring in Lance Reddick (Abbadon) to write him off nicely from the show. Good point on the MIB comment about curiosity. I think even Tom Friendly brings that up in season 2's "The Hunting Party" when they had their sit-down in the jungle and Kate got herself captured. I don't really have a point, just the fact that it came up before! lol

@David, thanks for the link. Yeah that was the big LOST Concert that Michael Giacchino put on. They also screened tomorrow night's episode. And daaaaaaaaamn WALT got even bigger! LOL

Nice, I'm onto comments page 3!

@Jude - Definitely yet another awesome coincidence with the numbers! OR WAS IT a coincidence? lol In any case, still a cool find!

@Snafu - I totally agree with the negative commentary. And, agree that from the discussions this season with Darlton, they are pretty much coming clean with how much they have had planned since the beginning. I think we couldn't really expect them to have a successful show if they just had the entire show concept written from season 1 and not give it a chance to evolve. They have stuck to core principles and ideas they had and let them grow over the years... Totally agree that the writers were not expecting the POLARIZING response they got from this past episode...so their immediate reaction was maybe to be a little bitter. You can tell in their last podcast that they were much more humorous about it all. And they even brought up some points where they could understand why the fans were frustrated. Nothing that we haven't all said ourselves of course, but it was nice to hear it from them.

BTW...sidetrack - confirmation from Darlton that the 3 alternate endings are not "REAL ENDINGS" that were shot for LOST, but Darlton did have a hand in helping Kimmel with these "fun endings"....they said they only shot one definitive end for LOST

Thanks for the big shout out Snafu!

Mike V. said...

@Anonymous with the Reischman comment. Hmmm....not really ringing a bell. Might need to find out HIS/HER contact! LOL

@Bob - Interesting comparison to Heaven Can Wait. Unfortunately, I never saw the movie....but I wouldn't doubt it if they were doing some sort of an homage or something like that!

@David - Totally agree that the episode will make more sense once the show is complete!

@Candidate - As I just mentioned above (just restating it so you see it)....the 3 Alt Endings are a "joke" but Darlton are involved with them. This was confirmed by them on their podcast. Keep us posted on the repeat of part 1!

I did think it was funny when Hurley said "GOOD TIMES" on the show...and I did decide at the time that they were reading the blog as a joke lol But lots of people use that phrase! LOL But I appreciate you thinking that it might signify that they read the blog. I'll accept it as fact now! lol Glad I could make you feel special by including the SENET comment. Hey, I'm the first one to admit when I didn't think up something on my own or discover it for myself! I give props to the Lost Addicts Blog community whenever I can!

It's gonna be a crazy week of LOST...also check out the link I had above for all of the LOST stars hitting the air this week!

@Gary H - I haven't watched them yet, but fully intend to!

@Snafu - thanks for the heads up on the "spoiler" in tv guide's synopsis.

@Sandi - Yeah, when I watched the pilot after watching season 5's finale....I started to ponder if this is possible. And many people have been convinced that this is the case. That MIB took over Locke at the plane crash. So I guess there are 2 ways to look at it. Locke was "CLAIMED" from the beginning....or Smokey was impersonating Locke since the beginning. We know that Smokey could never leave the island...so it had to actually be John Locke....maybe he was claimed. I, personally, still do not think he was. I think they wanted to make his character mysterious and at the time we didn't even know his character could walk yet.....yeah..the backgammon game was an interesting clue but I think the writers are just trying to tie these season 6 episodes back to clues they gave us in season 1...not actually trying to show us that Locke was claimed by MIB. Granted...Smokey was working very early on Locke and giving him false hope of some kind of SPECIAL EXISTENCE (which I still say we might get some redemption for John Locke before the end)....but to think Locke was not acting out on his own will the whole time....I just don't think I can buy that. There were too many times when he looked to the skies for an answer from the Island and asked "WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO!?!?!" I just can't accept that all of these scenes were faked by Smokey! lol

@Glenn - thanks for the link - I actually linked to it further up but I think it wasn't as clear as you referenced it here lol

I gotta check out the matthew fox video too...but it'll have to wait until I get to work! Which it's time for me to do! Talk to you guys later.
(418 comments...wow)

Mike V. said...

Yikes, guys! I had a typo in the first paragraph and no one told me! lol It's cool, all fixed now...a week later :-)

Mike V. said...

Another good Doc Jensen column from yesterday...good quotes from Lindelof too:



Doc Jensen - Sunday Edition

davidsalako said...

Interesting observation by Doc Jensen on Ben being "touched" by the dying Jacob.
Jacob's death was definitely a sacrifice to "end things once".
I wonder just how Jacob has been leaving THE ISLAND on his "Global Touching Tours"?

Mike V. said...

I still wonder that too David. Not sure if we'll get an answer, but an answer would be nice! I would think it needs to tie into how Richard was leaving the island and the "priveleged information" he referred to when he mentioned it to Locke in 1954.

Who knows...maybe Jacob completed the Donkey Wheel? Although,the more I think about that X-Ray of the donkey wheel...maybe DHARMA dug and dug...and got to the donkey wheel...and it was just in the same position it was when MIB and Mother were there. And maybe DHARMA then finished what they started.

BTW...Darlton talked about the significance of what MIB was saying with the use of LIGHT and WATER in his "exit the island system" ....Damon also asked something like "could water represent the life force of the island? could we be discussing this further in the final episodes?" Definitely hinting very strongly about WATER yet again.

Oh and....since it was on the podcast, I don't really consider this spoilerish...just discussion-worthy!

Florin Milea said...

@sandy snowden - I have been going back and forth with this with Mike. He even stole my thunder with the game here but yes.

Withe the new season in mind and the revelations, I did watched the 1-4 seasons back to back and yes, those evil looks, those stares to the ocean, all that made me think that yes the creators did planed some ahead of time. I was pointing to Mike the doodle in Locke's room a a child when Richard visited him for the second time. So we agreed that Smokey through someone else, the likely late candidate been Abaddon, had some access and influence on his own candidate as an anti-Jacob anti-candidate or counter candidate. As we saw from this seasons, we weren't wrong.

@Snafu11 - I hear you there and in addition I personally like to see good quality shows like Lost or even better. It's just that the show is a common good, their story to tell = ours to see and comment on it and yes, mistakes will be done, mistakes or weaknesses will be point out.

davidsalako said...

Regarding the Donkey Wheel - I initially thought that the Dharma Initiative may have finished it to but looking at Pierre Chang's x-ray in the season 5 premiere "Because You Left", the wheel is definitely already embedded in the rock.
The x-ray is shot from above the rock and wheel and from this position one can only see a maximum of 4 spokes exposed of the wheel.
The same holds when both Linus and Locke turned the wheel - maximum 4 spokes show outside the rock.
When and where the MIB left the wheel standing - we can see the 6 or more spokes of the wheel leaning against the rock wall.
There are also Egyptian hieroglyphics in the DW chamber which were probably left by folks that came to THE ISLAND after the Mother-Jacob-MIB tragedy.

Florin Milea said...

@sandy snowden and Mike V - I should also point out again that in addition to what I already did, the creators to their credit planted many clues about the character John Locke.

Abaddon encourages him to go to Australia to a Walkabout Locke a paralytic and touches him on the shoulders and almost pushes him down the stairs, I wonder what was that all about.
Richard visits him as a child, a curious doodle on the wall - was Richard working for the MiB? and ask what item belongs to him. He chose something else but no the dagger.
He walks after the crash much to his own surprise.
He finds his case full of Knives in all that mess after the crash.
He is the only one at that point who Does Not Want To Leave The Island.
He smacks Sayid over his head and smashes the transceiver to prevent Sayid and co from finding the radio tower.
He blows up the communication center entering 77.
He blows up the submarine.
He cuts short Sawyer when the truth about his former handicap was just about to be revealed after he pushed Mikhail through the sonic fence.
He talks about the island is not done, is special and we're here for a reason and the sacrifice requirement.
He even 'helps' some candidates and losties overcome their problems - Charlie and drug addiction among one and that makes us confused as Locke been the good guy. Just a few clues I can think about the character been set up long ago for the revelations we just had in this season, and that's one of the Brilliant Touches that impressed me about the show especially now after the revelation of season 6. That's the good stuff.

Snafu11 said...

On MIB being claimed/possessing Locke in the Pilot:
Interesting angle but I'd have to agree with Mike that would seem a bit too much of a stretch. Wasn't there a scene in the S1 finale prior to blowing the hatch door open where Locke was nearly dragged down a hole by Smokey but was released after the TNT was thrown down? Roussou's shipmates were dragged down and came back with the sickness. This would indicate they were as ok as when they landed.


On the Donkey Wheel: I forgot all about the x-ray. Did is show being upright or was it in place already?
One question I've always had with the wheel was when Ben alluded to John that turning the wheel is done as a last resort and has unpredictable consequences. We know now it resulted in time jumping. I wonder if he had ever witnessed this event before. Do we think it would be used for regular visit "across the sea" by Jacob?

John said...

First time posting, love the blog. Not sure if anyone else mentioned this but in Season 3 (or2)Locke sees the black smoke and is all smiles. Later in the Season 3 episode, "The Cost of Living", Locke is talking to Echo about the black smoke and while asking him what he saw, Locke says "I saw a very bright light, it was beautiful." This tells me that Locke was able to see "the light" through the black smoke. Since at this time we all thought Locke was crazy and on some magic island high, they slipped in that oh so subtle line. I am sold on the writers having a plan now.

Mike V. said...

@Florin - I have no doubt that MIB was working on "conning" locke from early on....especially since the crash. As of prior to the crash? Eh...possibly. The doodling of the smoke monster definitely makes the whole the possibility very intriguing.

@David - gotcha...I'm gonna have to see that picture again but good catch. And good point about the egyptian hieroglphics!

All a good summary of John Locke's ploys to keep people on the island.....the one thing though...Locke cuts off Mikhail before he's about to say that locke was paralyzed....Sawyer finds out that he was a cripple from Anthony Cooper....and Locke confirms it by saying "it doesn't matter what we were" or something like that.

I think it would really take away from the story of John Locke if we were to find out that he wasn't acting on his own will all of this time. All of the reasons you list are also proof that the man was being "guided by the island" (or at least he thought he was) to do something that had a greater sense of purpose....we have all been brought here for a reason. It also adds weight to Jack pushing MIB into the water when he said "John Locke told me we weren't supposed to leave" or something like that. It would make JACK look like the "sucker" if he's following the words of the Man in Black all of this time too.

And great point to Snafu about the monster attempting to drag Locke into the hole.

Based on what david is suggesting...the picture shows the wheel "in place" ....i'm gonna have to check the recap...i'm sure i have a picture of that there. As for Jacob using the wheel as his "exit"....i was kinda alluding to that above too....MAYBE. But then how did he get BACK to the island all of the time? There has to be some way he was able to go back and forth so easily..... there has to be a way that Richard was able to cause a car accident that allowed him to get Anthony Cooper on the Island so quickly. HOW? Maybe we'll find out in the finale.... maybe never. But this whole water and light concept is sure intriguing!

Mike V. said...

@John - Thanks for the props! Yeah I was actually talking about that in the comments too! Locke sees the monster in season 1 (in the walkabout episode)....he tells Jack in white rabbit..."i looked into the eye of this island and it was beautiful".....then yes he tells Eko later on that he saw a bright white light. I agree that maybe somehow smokey was showing this light to Locke...it totally makes sense to me. Hopefully we'll see!

Mike V. said...

btw...here's the x-ray


Donkey Wheel x-ray

I agree it looks like it's built into the wall already. or maybe it was just caved in that way! :-) lol

Snafu11 said...

@Mike V - Quawanis never crashes, so you could ruled that out for Jacob's return flight ;-)

davidsalako said...

Maybe John Locke is kind of the polar opposite to MIB?
He believes in THE ISLAND.
Sees the beautiful, bright light where others couldn't.
Wanted to stay and recognized his chance to "leave the past behind".
Thought that science didn't have all the answers.
Manipulated by those close to him and still kept giving them many more chances.
Willing to sacrifice himself for THE ISLAND cause - whatever that may be.
Re-bvrn and healed by THE ISLAND.
Etc.
John Locke acted on his own free will up to the point he was murdered by Linus.
He was not the MIB.
Just mysterious in his own way.

Mike V. said...

Thought I'd share this interview. I don't think it's very spoilerish, but they do talk about their THOUGHTS on the final eps. Nestor decided not to read the final act but Ian (i think that's what he goes by) did...he knows the whole final scene..but obviously not spilling lol

The only thing spoilerish is that Nestor says what episode he will be appearing in next. (take your pick...it's a 50% shot lol)

TV Guide Mag Interview with Nestor Carbonell and Henry Ian Cusick

@David - Interesting thoughts on Locke! Totally agree with your last comments as well.

@Snafu - Quana-what??? lol

Mike V. said...

Hey guys, I got some more info sent to me. Opportunities to win some lost signed stuff. Check it out below!



"We have an exciting opportunity for all LOST fans! Do you want your own LOST poster signed by the minds behind the TV phenomenon –executive producer Carlton Cuse and co-creator and executive producer Damon Lindelof? Check out our special contest!
 
To be entered to win a signed LOST poster, upload one of the following photos to NCM Fathom’s Flickr page (http://www.flickr.com/ncmfathom):
 
·       A picture of you holding your Times Talks LIVE: LOST movie ticket. (Make sure that your ticket is visible.)
OR
·       A picture of yourself dressed up as your favorite LOST character.
 
Please include your name and email address in the description of the photo so we can contact the winners. All submissions are due by May 24, 2010 and winners will be randomly selected on May 27, 2010 and notified on or about May 28, 2010. No purchase necessary to enter.
 
We look forward to seeing your photos and see you in the theaters on May 20th!
 
Are you planning on attending the Times Talks LIVE: LOST event featuring an in-depth conversation between New York Times entertainment editor Lorne Manly and LOST executive producer Carlton Cuse and co-creator and executive producer Damon Lindelof about the challenges of crafting a finale that satisfies themselves as storytellers. To celebrate the season finale, NCM Fathom, The New York Times and BY Experience are partnering to bring you the chance to hear from the masterminds behind the show at Times Talks LIVE: LOST Broadcast LIVE from The TimesCenter in New York on Thursday, May 20, at 8 pm ET / 7 pm CT / 6 pm MT and tape delayed at 8 pm PT, this one night event will take place exclusively at select movie theaters across the U.S. and Canada
 

--
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Pure
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Denver, CO 80205
303.625.1086

Blog: http://purethinking.typepad.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/millerkm"

Tom said...

Ultimatly I think the ending to lost will mirror allot of elements from star wars. Lost has made too many references to those movies for it to be a coincidence. To me, Lost is a story about character redemption, all of the characters we have come to love have been flawed and throughout their journey on the island their actions have been able to redeem themselves. This is allot like life, all of us are flawed but it is through our choices and actions that we can redeem ourselves. Essentially that’s really what Jacob is trying to prove, that people although flawed and inherently bad see capable of good and love.

Star wars simply put was a story
about Anikan Skywalker who turned evil but ultimately was able to redeem himself, return to good and save the galaxy from the evil Emperor.

I think lost is going to unfold in the same way, I think that the actions of our losties will once and for all show the MIB the good things that people are capable of. In the end the MIB/smoke monster will redeem himself and turn good.

Candidate said...

@ Florin.
On Older post
Yeah I guess nobody knows "exactly" how anything happens in that business. It's a real tough business which leads to a few thoughts on the interview. I would guess it safe to assume that most people here, actively posting or reading are creative and have been involved with creating some sort of art. Some may have worked on a project that was very intense / time consuming and had become attached to that work. I personally can get very freaky/crazy when the project is near completion but that's just me.
I can sympathize w/ the creators of Lost being bullied by obesseive fans how they (the fans) think their story should be told. I know I dont like being told how I should do my job by someone that may know nothing about broadcasting or Music. I have heard that some people that work on Lost actually were forced to file restraining orders at Reporters and other uninvited worms. Darlton have probably heard every stupid suggestion and question possible (and that's alot.)
I'm grateful that they will conduct this Times Talk Live interview for us...the fans with good questions who respect the creators privacy and allow them to tell their story the way they want to tell it. The entertainment biz can be a disturbing place to work. I might even say that some execs are the real "Evil Incarnate." I gotta cut Darlton some slack.
Cheerz

Candidate said...

One more thing
I've never seen a production like Lost either. Agreed that Nothing has ever come close to it. I see it as the greatest production and story of our time.
Things like the wrong amount of shots unloading from a gun are probably the results of too many hands in the cookie jar. I would say there is a large percent of (how should I say this) Not highly educated fans of the show or maybe dont even care about the storyline.
I'm not refering to anyone here or to anyone in particular. A show w/ 30 million viewers in the U.S. alone will have a variety of backgrounds and education. Kurt Cobain and Jim Morrison hated the fact that they couldn't pick what type of fan they wanted to attend their concerts. O.K. that's it for my rant.

Florin Milea said...

@John - If it holds true to the fact that they did planned, it must’ve started with John Locke from the pilot and developed his character and the plot right from there. But having so many producers is what I think misplaced some of the other clues about ghosts and water-smokey for example. Is never a good thing to have too many hands on the deck, Navy lingo.

Florin Milea said...

@davidsalako - I disagree with the last portion of your post.

That which you point out is the Locke who’s the good person, the person who according with Mike V believes in a higher purpose but his gullibility sits in the way. On his own he wants to do good and he helps a lot of people. Yet my list shows that at certain crucial moments, the smokey part of him kicks in which means that John has been claimed and used on purpose by smokey. Is he the polar opposite? Yes. But than the dark side manifest it self. He’s trying to find good friends and a higher purpose is what ironically gets him in trouble. The same can be said about Sawyer for another example. Someone said that Kate and Locke got the “I am sorry” part from Jacob. Perhaps a clue? It might, or it might not. Sawyer was told by Jacob to let the bygones be bygones, but noooo... Sawyer was after revenge. Legit on his part? Yes. But at what price for all our characters?

Please folks, re-watch those episodes for the clues. Do the episode frame by frame if needed, Watch the one where Richard visits him as a child and sees the doodle on the wall, listen to the dialog and the things Richard shows him and asks him which one of them belongs to him.

It was:
- A comic book - Walt
- A dagger - Smokey
- Ashes - Jacob
- A compass - Maybe something Jack would pick up
- A baseball glove - Maybe something Kate or Sawyer would pick up.

Richard says that he made the wrong choice and leaves telling his foster mother that Locke’s not ready for that Special School - hm what school we’re talking here. Abaddon au contraire pushes a crippled Locke to go on a Walkabout - man vs nature, a guy in his position has no chance surviving.

Re-watch ‘Enter 77’ Chang says to enter that sequence If The Hostiles Broke Through. Since that’s not the case, a fool would know not to enter that code for is a code for self-destruction. Yet Locke does it like he’s under a spell and then casually gets away with it because nobody really knows what did it, because he’s not saying it how he did it. He says something about playing chess I think.

How do I think Smokey manipulated him on that occasion? Remember Sayid tasked Locke to watch Mikhail. Yet in a nerve racking move, Locke abandons Mikhail like an idiot, I was screaming at the screen about that, and goes in the other room to play the chess game because the computer was chiming. He looked like he’s under a spell or curse. He wasn’t just intrigued by Mikhail saying to him that in between man and machine, the machine wins but in his gullibility he was set up and exploited by smokey because he looked in his eyes and smokey knew his strength and weaknesses.

John was a great man and the plot and the character around him are beautifully developed, but he was for the purpose of the show that is; a gullible man. I am sorry to say it but that’s what it was. Compare it and contrast with Jack for all those seasons 1-3 for example.

All the evidence points out hat John Locke was ‘claimed long before. I mean come on! Mike reminds me again, Jacob leaves the island, the Dharmaville people does so and we don’t know how they come back unless those scientific explanation we’ve been through are real. What else will convince you about all this when is right there on the dvd?

In conclusion I disagree with Mike as well. Not only that learning that Locke was not acting on his own would take away from the character, it will actually add to it, make perfect logistical sense as to why did the character as he did. It would logical, sensical and I would be a satisfied customer.

Florin Milea said...

@Candidate - That is absolutely true what you’re saying candidate, there’s no argument from me.

I took arts and theater in high school and college. I did the artistic avenue more than anyone would think. I am in arts.
I created, developed, published on GoComicdorcom - the site of Universal Syndicate, Four Comic Strips with thousands of hits everyday, 7 days a week for those two years. Two of them I do them on my blog Hoping and Praying for a syndication and a Paid Gig. I do the research in every corner of life I can to find that edge, I do the text, the drawing, etc.
I know how tough the business is and how much crop there is. I got some of that myself. I just said, ‘thank you for your attention and I will do better next time.’ I doused the flame instead of pouring more gas.

I knocked in every door at every agent, manager and publisher from New York to Los Angeles hoping to break through. I do feel you candidate in what you’re saying.

Yet sometimes the Hollywood crowd gets lost in a world of their own isolated, ego’s in Hollywood runs very strong and they wind up in the other extreme of evil incarnated.

So I guess is a hard act for them to have to put up with the obnoxious on a daily basis, you’re right. If they can filter the good advice and follow as well as they stay away from the idiots, boy - that would be so good for them. So trust me, even when I give criticism, I do cut them a lot of slack as they so deserve.

IMHO and if it would’ve been me, I would’ve responded to that criticism with logical answers and the rest I would’ve said; “I apologise for missing on this and that, lesson learned and the rest, well, is my story to tell and I did my best with it, I can’t satisfy all the fans all the time everywhere,” instead of coming around or been perceived as arrogant. It is hard enough for them as it is, why fuel the fire more so?

But I got your point and you’re right about it.

Here’s a Good example of fan intervention and it might be the exception, not the rule.
SG-1 was scheduled to close its doors with season 7. The spin-off - Stargate Atlantis was already underway and doing well. The fan base screamed bloody murder about SG-1 so the creators said; Okay 3 more seasons and that’s it. They did so, and it turned up to be 3 more successful season than even the ones before actually. Atlantis ws brought nicely to a logical conclusion, so did the SG-1 and everybody was happy. Even the fans behaved themselves realising that every good thing must come to an end but it was one where the questions were answered with even simple logic and everybody was happy. I am too poor to afford cable so don’t ask me about SG World tough.

Florin Milea said...

I thought about the character of John Locke that maybe the best words to describe him would be innocent naiveté?

And did anyone do a trailer there on abc’s site? I did my own long ago, Florin’s Promo.

Mike V. said...

@Tom, I can't say that I'd complain if we got a "STAR WARS" ending! lol And maybe that is the twist that will make everyone right at the end of LOST. Yes, Smokey IS Evil, but he certainly can be redeemed just like every other character on LOST. lol I like it!

Of course...who is the EMPEROR in this story? It would seem like the ultimate bad guy that has been pulling strings this whole time was Smokey, right? Maybe the Ultimate Evil is the Island itself. I dunno...just trying to help your theory! lol

@Candidate - Interesting thoughts on LOST Fans. I think the awesome part of LOST is that it appealed to so many variety of fans and that the show could be digested on so many levels. But yeah, the problem with that is that there is no way to please everyone in the end. Hopefully, when all is said and one, people can look back and appreciate the journey they took with this show and some fans who are disappointed in the end can look past that disappointment and remember the great episodes that got them here!

Can't wait for TIMES TALK...I also can't wait to see what kind of crowd that it draws! lol I have the feeling I'm going to be utterly out of place with lots of people dressed up in DHARMA Jumpsuits and stuff lol But it'll be a good time!

@Florin - That's cool that you disagree with me on Locke...my opinion remains the same! :-) As for the tests that Richard gives young Locke. I always thought there was going to be more meaning to that too. Apparently, there isn't though. I think what we were meant to take from that is that there is some sort of RITUAL (like a buddhist ritual or something - may be picking the wrong religion or culture) to choose their next leader. And for some reason John was failing and it disappointed Richard. Why? Because an older John Locke appeared to him in 1954 and told him to go check in on him when he was born. And Richard stuck with it all through John's life. The knife being the thing that made Locke fail? I dunno...maybe that meant to richard that Locke was leaning towards that dark side already...and would be easily corruptible (against Jacob's main goal).....And yeah...the drawing of Smokey probably didn't help matters much either! Maybe Locke was having dreams of the Island already somehow and that's how he drew smokey. I think, in the end, the scene will be left for interpretation...but we'll be able to interpret more if we find more out about Locke in any case (i.e. whether he was claimed or not. I'm guessing we won't find out he was or wasn't...which pretty much implies he wasn't lol) Anyway, that's all I have for now...gotta get to work. I'll read the comments again when I get there to see if I missed anything!

davidsalako said...

@Flrin: I could point out a few errors in your theory of John Locke being claimed all along but that would take too long. It's not that important. I will point out one though:
Richard Alpert's test question to Locke as a 5 year old was - "Which of these things belong to you ALREADY?" He lays out on the table a baseball glove, a book entitled "Book of Laws", a small container of granules - not ashes, a compass, a comic book entitled "Mystery Tales", and a knife. John immediately claims the container of the granules and inspects and claims the compass. John starts towards the "Book of Laws", at which point Richard looks hopeful. Instead, he picks up the knife, to which Richard seems disappointed and angry.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Richard_Alpert%27s_objects
I would argue with you that all the items had nothing to do with the other losties specifically.
He did exhibit some sort of precognition with the drawing of the Smoke Monster and his knowing when it would rain on THE ISLAND for example. Like Walt and MIB, he was SPECIAL.

Mike V. said...

That all sounds about right David!

btw to all...HAPPY LOST DAY! The final Tuesday LOST Day...the final weekday LOST day. the final episode before a finale LOST day. The final.....i think i'm gonna cry...be back in a bit! lol

Mike V. said...

Here's a good reason we should care if Malcom David Kelley returns to LOST....in response to "best flashback,forward or sideways" story in this article...here was his response:

"Malcolm David Kelley: “The early flashbacks to Sun and Jin’s lives in Japan.” "

JAPAN!?!?!?!?! LOL Oh my....lol

Anyway...fun article with a panel of LOSTIES picking their favorite moments, relationships, deaths, etc... of the show.

TV Guide Magazine LOST Article

Mike V. said...

ugh...i meant SHOULDN'T CARE! lol

Snafu11 said...

@candidate - I agree with your commentary--very well stated.

@Florin - I would agree with your comments on Locke being niave but not on being claimed. Of course for MIB to get to his loop hole, even gets to John Locke he must have been manipulating everybody who was not in the know--which is just about everyobdy--Roussou, Ben, Horace, Richard. He is the great deciever which would make him Evil Incarnate (EI).

Looking forward to tonight--and about 500 post by lunch tomorrow...

Mike V. said...

@Snafu - Yikes...500 by lunch time? If that happens..I'd officially give up on responding to all! lol I was about to say that I don't think anything will top THIS post with the # of comments. But I'm sure it's inevitable that the Finale Post will probably top anything we've seen. Of course...with the fact that it'll take me all morning and maybe some of the afternoon to get it posted on monday...everyone may be already finished talking about the finale and not want to post a comment! lol

yeah right!!

gnni4 said...

I have to say it again about the test Richard gave young John, I always saw that differently than you guys.

I saw Richard angry that John HAD passed the test, he stormed out because he knew that John WAS the guy he had met in the past. That meant he WAS from the future. John did pick the things that were his already,
*Sand from the island
*Compass (oh that magic compass!)
*Knife
The book of Laws never belonged to John, that was maybe Jacob's.

John chose his own things and Richard was angry that this guy was the guy from the past/future, and stormed out before getting more involved in John's or his mothers memory. Richard didn't want to change John's past, just look into it.

That has been my view of it, it doesn't seem to be shared, but I just had to repeat it since you guys are bringing it up again!

Mike V. said...

gnni, the only reason I wouldn't agree with that line of thinking is because for John as a boy...those things did "NOT" belong to him already. He would not have experienced the Island, the compass or his love for knives until much later in life...even if it chronologically happened back in 1954...

of course...what it DOES show is John's love for hunting(knives), exploration (compass), and well..SAND...were probably brewing within him even at an early age.

It's an interesting theory that maybe Richard was angry that locke DID pass...but that's just not how I see it. Of course, the scene is ambiguous enough for us to draw our own conclusions...because I can probably guarantee with about 90% certainty that we will not be revisiting anything about this scene. But..you never know what they will address in the final 3.5 hours. I can't wait though!

davidsalako said...

I had a slightly different view of Richard Alpert's test results to the young John Locke.
Richard was annoyed because he felt he had wasted his time in traveling to see this kid that he thought was SPECIAL. He expected Locke to choose the compass because an adult Locke - not MIB - had given it to Richard a few years before in '54.
The problem is that MIB/FLocke gave the compass to Alpert in 2004 I think it was and Richard in trun gave it to time travelling adult John Locke who then gave it back to Richard - who didn't know him - in '54.
Young Locke actually passed the test in my view because he chose the knife, which in the future came to pass that he had a thing for on THE ISLAND.
His precog of the Black Smoke was also an indication of his destiny that slightly unnerved Alpert.
The compass passing around originated from MIB/FLocke.
Alpert was being manipulated by MIB, he just didn't know it for a long time. Same with Locke once he got to THE ISLAND.

Mike V. said...

@david - I'd actually argue that there is no origin to the compass. It's a never-ending loop intentionally put into place by the writers with no resolve. (Actually, I wouldn't argue it, as I'd just state it as the producers' intentions lol) The fact that the compass decayed over time but then was brought back in time and was fine was of no concern to them. It was all part of this concept that I'm pretty sure they referred to as Occam's Razor. They just loved the concept and wanted to put it in the show. lol (btw...Flocke giving Richard the compass happened in 2007)

Anyway, that doesn't take away from any of your points that you made, just wanted to bring it up yet again (like Gnni said...since we're talking about it again!)....I still don't understand how we can view Locke as "passing the test" but I guess anything is possible as always! I do agree with Richard being unnerved by the picture of Smokey.

I always loved that scene regardless to if we ever find out what was going on there!

Mike V. said...

I knew that Occum's razor never made sense. The term that they gave on the podcast (yes, I researched it lol) last year was this:

"Locke's compass is in an infinite mobius loop" -Damon and Carlton

If you're really interested in the discussion, check out the May 11, 2009 podcast on itunes or lost.abc.com lol


Mobius Loop info here

davidsalako said...

Agreed.
I initially thought the compass thing was an endless loop to - that is before the revelation that the resurrected Locke was in fact Smokey/MIB.
When I watched season 5 again, I didn't think it was an endless loop anymore.
The knives thing - they made the knives a very prominent association with Locke on THE ISLAND and they = the knives - also went missing in Sideways world. I just thought it was odd that the writers would bring up the knives again in Sideways.
Probably nothing but I assumed it all ties back to his "test" as a 5 year old!

davidsalako said...

That's an interesting article re: Möbius strip.
Thanks Mike!

Mike V. said...

@David - no problem on the link. I also looked at my podcast recap in the comments of the "Follow the Leader" blog which had more discussion about mobius strip/loop. Anyway...yeah I don't think it matters if it was initiated or is an endless loop...i do know Darlton said that they spent many days and hours discussing the compass in the writer's room but in the end...they didn't want to ruin the mystery and intrigue in lost by OVER-EXPLAINING it. lol

As for the knives...yeah I'm with you on the knives being very significant to being associated with John Locke ever since season 1. As for them bringing it back up in season 6...i thought this was more a mirroring of season 1 and the fact that he was going on his walkabout. But yeah...indirectly, I supposed it could be linked to the "TEST" as well. I dunno! I agree that when I first saw him pick up the knife, I knew that was a very John Locke'ian thing to do lol I just never understood why Richard would get so upset about it. But, like you said...it could have something to do with him being alarmed by the smokey picture. Eh, in any case...like i said...still a great scene!

Bill said...

About the knives, doesn't MiB have a fondness for them also?

MJ said...

Brief Jensen article about Lost - a tiny bit spoilery if you don't want to know the name of the ep, or a general view of what it's about.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/18/lost-countdown-why-they-died/?ew%5FpackageID=20313460

According to him Darlton is doing Letterman's top 10 wednesday

Bill said...

How do Eloise and Charles know so much? A question I’m sure we’ve all asked. I was thinking that they either read Jacob’s copy of The Mysterious Island User’s Guide or maybe they’re reliving their lives in a loop. If Locke’s test was about the potential to be an Other Leader, then Eloise and Charles would have probably had to pass a similar test. This may mean that some part of them is ‘reincarnated’ or can at least envision the future. So, 5-y.o. Locke knew that ~50 years later those items would be his or important to him. The question is, was it Locke’s knife or fLocke’s knife that was important?

Bill said...

And I forgot to add that the Smokey drawing probably answers that question.

(Can you edit your own comment after it's posted?)

MJ said...

Went to that TVGuide.com article - they fixed Japan and made it Korea

LOL

Mike V. said...

@Bill - yes there is that "special knife" that MIB and Jacob (and dogen) have exchanged throughout the years. Unfortunately there is no way to edit comments here. It's just not a sophisticated comments section! lol It's all fun to speculate about the knives...but I don't know if there will be an answer connecting it all together! As for Eloise and Charles....well some have been speculating that Eloise has been in cahoots with MIB since very early on. It would explain why MIB (as Christian) sent Locke to her...and why she was so adamant about sending locke back with Jack and crew. It would also explain how she knew that they had to recreate the scene as best as possible to get everyone back....or the fact that both she and MIB were on the same page when it came to explaining this. As for Widmore? Well he may be in on it too...we just don't know yet...but there was that one scene between him and Eloise about what they had to sacrifice (off island outside of the hospital where Desmond was)....all interesting stuff to consider in these final hours!

@MJ - thanks for the links! I have my tivo set for all LOST related appearances over the next week. Good times! And nice on the Japan/Korea fix lol BTW, did you ever get tix for Thursday?

Mike V. said...

wow...doc jensen referenced the 815 Sentences about LOST! So crazy because I posted something there. Maybe he knows I exist now lol

Mike V. said...

OMG...Jensen references where he first read about it and that article specifically calls out my thing! NICE!!!


Other LOST article where I'm referenced that Doc Jensen read and referenced!

Sorry guys...I know it sounds like bragging, but that just really took me by surprise!

MJ said...

Don't you DARE apologise for what is NOT bragging ! Good for you Mike. It is well deserved recognition for all you hard work. our blog has truly enhanced my viewing experience of Lost - wish I'd found it sooner than season 3 (I think that's when I found it) LOL. You should be proud to be referenced !!!!!

No tickets yet. They keep saying can't buy em til the day of. I'm gonna call tomorrow and see what I can do about it.

Mike V. said...

Thanks MJ! Now if only he called me out by name LOL j/k

As for finding it in season 3....that's when things started picking up here, so before that, it would've just been reading me rant about the show. You guys truly made this a great LOST community by taking an active role!

Now...this means nothing against the people that have been reading it since the beginning! I appreciate all of you guys for wanting to hear what I have had to say over the years too. And of course, all of the hard work you all did by forwarding it to friends, families and wherever else! It slowly snowballed into the awesomeness that it is today and will be for well...probably a couple more weeks :-)

I'll save some more thanks for the finale blog of course. But that was a little preview (of what will be more of the same lol)

Good luck MJ with those Tix!

MJ said...

Ugh! Still waiting for Totally Lost !

Hubby was teasing me the other day that I'm going to sink into depression when it's all over ! But I told him you'd be blogging for weeks after the finale ! LOL He just rolled his eyes !

But for some consolation we are planning to marathon Babylon 5 and Farscape for the summer - 2 of our faves. Might help take a little of the pain away.

Mike V. said...

Yeah, are we getting a Totally LOST tonight? I hope so. Last week it posted this late, so maybe it's coming soon.

Funny that you said I'd be blogging for a couple weeks! LOL It's going to be really hard for me to let this one go!

Mike V. said...

FYI...Doc Jensen tweeted that the new Totally LOST - a five part epic featuring 2 special guests will post soon...plus the long awaited return of an old enemy! PIGGY!!! It must be! lol

MJ said...

LOl - you know you will - cause a bunch of us are gonna keep coming here and posting ! ;-D We're not letting you off that easy ! LOL

Jensen did say in the link that we looked at that Totally Lost - penultimate one - will be posted today

MJ said...

I've missed Peg E Vil !!!!

Mike V. said...

I will post as long as people will continue to read and discuss!

I've missed the pig too!

MJ said...

Dude! You might have just made your second life-long committment ! LOL

MJ said...

Totally Lost !
http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/18/totally-lost-across-the-sea-jacob-smokey/

MJ said...

Ok - one of the BEST Totally Lost's ever ! Pellegrino and Welliver rock ! Too funny. For the spoiler-free - you can totally watch the first 4 vids - and at the top of the 5th they state spoilers coming. So feel free !

See ya all here tomorrow !

Bryan said...

Agree 100%! That was a really funny Totally Lost.

Mike V. said...

On my phone right now but totally agree. Totally lost was awesome!!!

Mike V. said...

Btw an official lost video of the cast saying their goodbyes :-(

http://bit.ly/cOHFoG

Candidate said...

@ Florun

Yeah I'm on board w/ Locke being claimed since he was a child. The rewatch I did about 6 weeks ago made my perception change on a lot of characters as we have discussed before in comments.

@ Mike real nice 815 sentences. Congrats on the Jensen shout-out.
How close are you to your posting goal?

Candidate said...

Sorry bout the typo Florin

Mike V. said...

Thanks Candidate! Wait...what posting goal are you talking about? lol

I guess I'm just trying to hit 300,000 hits after the finale....seems pretty feasible based on last week. And i'd like to have 815 followers on Twitter by the finale too (at around 730 right now lol ironically, I set this goal when I hit 316 followers at the beginning of the season)

But I don't think either of those are what you're referring to. So, I'm not sure!

Mike V. said...

maybe not a replacement for LOST but definitely looks like a promising show to be checking out next season on ABC!

Preview is in link below (from the ABC Upfronts)


No Ordinary Family

Florin Milea said...

IN ADVANCE - I saw the next ep Mike will do the blog.

In mourning for Ben... poor Ben, why Ben, why?

And the funny line from Miles - “like that was last week.”

More later...dercho

Mike V. said...

Don't lost hope on him just yet Florin! But I'll speak more in the next recap. Loved the ep as always!

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - I will keep my faith up with respect to Ben.

One word: ‘Jackob”

So nice tie-in’s with the prior episodes in prior seasons mobius style. The Ockham razor’s definitely wouldn’t had worked but Flocke’s answer as why he chooses to walk is one of them.

In season 1 Kate saws Jack, now is Jack returning the favor.
The heart of the island been not to far from where Jackob landed in the bamboo forest.
Ben makes Sayid believe is his idea to go on the killing spree, now is Flocke doing it to Ben.
The beating scene shows a repeat of the one where Des beat up Ben for trying to kill Penny on the dock where their boat was tied.

They were right; No other character was so beaten throughout the series like Ben was. I feel sorry for him turning bad again. I was hoping he’ll stay on the path but then who would fill in the shoes for Flocke loophole. And for Locke, he Maybe Special davisalako in response to your older post, but Not SPECIAL. He would’ve been until he failed to propose because he followed his con-father and the money. Let’s hope he’s got one more chance to make it right.



This was another WOW episode. So many tie-ins’ and resolves and answers, that’s what I called a nice winding down.

Now I wonder why Kate becoming a mother disqualified her from been a viable candidate. And a mother of Aaron or a mother with Jackob or Sawyer.

Richard said...

Mike, Florin,

I am sorry for you guys that Ben turned out to be bad. But IW Ben has really not turned out to be bad, he's always been bad. He's just pretended as he has all series to be good at points. Several weeks ago I pointed out that he was probably a spy. I am thinking he is saving Miles as a back up lacky.

Really looking forward to next post.

Mike V. said...

Richard, you don't have to apologize to me! lol I acknowledge that some had pondered Ben still being bad in the new recap. But I also give my retorts to why I think he may not stay that way. lol Anyway, I'm still working on the thing....I'll get it out ASAP!

Just remember, it ain't over until it's over!

Mike V. said...

And if you recall...I also agreed that Ben will still have to have his classic "BEN" moments before the end...including revenge on Widmore. It's all playing out!

Florin Milea said...

No problem Richard. For all Lost knows in delivering surprises, you could be right all along.

LostFamily said...

Wow - we loved this episode -don't understand all the negativity. We got lots of answers on origins we've been questioning for a long time. I loved it. Just can't believe it's all coming to an end though. Your blog is amazing as always and wow did this one generate a lot of comments! I'm wondering if we'll see an encounter with Jacob and Smokey or when he first sees his dead brother in human form again and if we'll learn anything else about Jacob understanding the Smoke Monster. But as so many have pointed out there's so little time left and so many loose ends we want know about! I did find it a little bit interesting that the two 13-year-olds hadn't ever discovered the Others or vice versa in all that time, but we've been saying the same thing about our Losties constantly finding new places on the island too I guess. Can't wait for the next episode to see what happens 'back at the Widmore ranch'.

Mike V. said...

LOST Family - You're getting really close to the end! Are you starting to get emotional!? I still can't believe you have been waiting a week per episode. Thanks so much for the compliments as always. And yes, this was quite the polarizing episode. Damon and Carlton love using that P word when referring to it. They even do on the episode commentary as well. You either loved it or hated it. And the haters were very vocal especially with it coming 2 episodes before the end. I got some HATE TWEETS when I tweeted that I loved the episode immediately when it ended. I didn't realize it was going to be such a mixed bag. Yes, the whole "LIGHT CAVE" thing is pretty crazy, but once you think about it a little more, see where it leads in the show it makes more sense. And the encyclopedia has a good write up about it. Anyway...crazy stuff and it's going to be great all the way to the end!

I don't want to give away too much so I'll just let you enjoy the final episodes. Just don't forget about all of those blog postings I made between episodes (the 23 mysteries and 23 mysteries revisited and the DISCUSSION POST right after the finale ended prior to me getting the recap up) All good stuff! Enjoy the home stretch and I look forward to hearing from you in the next episode or at least after THE END!

Miles Balzard said...

What the hell.... was that?

Haha, I actually enjoyed this episode quite a bit. You may recall that I was keenly interested in the ancient history of the island and this ep gave me plenty to chew on, though not all of the answers I was looking for. I do think it was important to get a proper backstory on Jacob and the Man in Black before they moved on, and they tied it in with a lot of the key mysteries in "modern" times, so it was a great episode. If they hadn't produced it, there would've been a million people dissatisfied with how they never really explained what was explained in this one.

But let me ask you, Mike, was this the earliest in the season that you think they could have shown this episode without spoiling what was yet to come? I mean, why couldn't this have been the 10th or 12th episode (as long as it was post "Ab Aeterno")? I'm trying to remember reasons why it shouldn't have been but I can't come up with good ones. I think it would've been good to show this story as early as possible in the series, which may have helped people from hating on it. For that matter, why couldn't "Ab Aeterno" have been the 5th ep and "Across the Sea" been the 7th or 8th?

I'm like you, Mike; Lost can basically do no wrong and it's clear by now they're not going to blow the series finale with something completely stupid. I have personally defended MUCH lesser shows than Lost from haters who are just so cynical and close-minded about what good TV is "supposed to be about." To each his own, and Lost has had its flaws, but rarely have I seen a show achieve the heights that Lost has reached, and anyone who doesn't at least acknowledge that just doesn't like good storytelling.

Anyway, I see you finally got your definitive answer about Adam and Eve! And you were really close to nailing who they were! To be honest, I was never that invested in that mystery, but it was really clever the way they tied it in with something so early in the series, and I can see why it was important to you and others.

So after last week, we were all clear on the fact that the MiB was evil and we want to see him vanquished, but then this week they humanize him and show he's kind of a victim of his mother and brother. I think this was also a good path to take, as it shows the MiB grew into an evil being because of his desperation to escape the Island and the curse his brother forced upon him.

As you commented, Mike, every bad guy has an origin story, which can often make them into sympathetic figures. If you've ever read up on Charles Manson, he had a pretty horrible childhood and young adult life too. He was a product of the prison system in the same way the MiB was a product of his imprisonment. Both characters just end up swimming in deepest end of the evil pool. Jacob is, of course, far from innocent too, which means neither brother is without serious flaws or potential for virtue.

Good ol' Lost, showing us both sides of the coin at every opportunity.

Mike V. said...

Yeah, maybe it was the timing of the episode that was bad. I think their philosophy was that they just punched fans in the gut with at least 3 people dying in that sub and they wanted to step away from that for an episode to give people a chance to "mourn" for a bit. Obviously, it didn't work for half of the audience!

I think they wanted to keep a mystery to MIB's intentions until the very end of the season. And then once we find out he's the root of all evil for our LOSTIES, we get a story justifying his actions a little bit. That's how Lost rolls!

But yeah...that's how LOST was for me. They earned my trust and I respected their decisions as writers for the show. I respected that I was seeing their vision and appreciated the fact that they were able to see their vision through to completion. So, I didn't go into this final season with a checklist demanding answers (sure, I put my 23 mysteries post together and then did a follow-up post after "the last recruit" aired....but that was mainly to keep the discussion going).

So, you're all ready to enter the End Game of LOST! Enjoy! It's a helluva ride.

Rosie said...

Hi Mike. This is my first time commenting but I just wanted to thank you for having such an amazing blog. I watched the first two season of Lost years ago during the time they aired and for whatever reason didn't finish. I wanted to start the show all over again but I heard so many negatives from friends. Everyone said it wasn't worth it and that the show was horrible in the end. Boy am I glad I didn't believe them. I have absolutely loved Lost. I find the characters fantastic and the writing is wonderful. While there have been a few episodes here and there I didn't like overall I love it. I am so happy I found your blog to read during this journey. Not having anyone to discuss the show with was killing me and I feel like I could get theories and ideas from the blog. I'm getting really exciting for these last two episodes! I know one pretty big spoiler but I don't even care. I'm just so invested in the show as a whole that I want to see how every aspect of it ends. Thanks again!

Mike V. said...

@Rosie - Thanks for dropping a comment that you've been reading! I appreciate the compliments and that you found the blog so useful. Ugh...I still get annoyed at the negative reaction to the finale. Sure, it was inevitable not everyone was going to love the end but the ride to that end was still worth it. To think that people feel in hindsight that they wasted their time is ridiculous. You can't UN-LIVE watching The Constant for the first time or the 20th time. It's a great episode regardless of what comes before or after it. And that's just the best of MANY examples of fantastic experiences from watching LOST. Fortunately for me, I loved the ending too! lol

I'm guessing I know which spoiler you know...but you can bring it up after you watch the finale if you want!

You're totally welcome for the blog. So glad it still lives on to this day and people find it useful! Enjoy the final episodes!

Leta said...

I don't get all the hate about this episode. I wouldn't say I loved it, but I did like it. Probably so close to the end, people wanted it to be all or nothing.

I agree the light thing was kind of lame. At least until I saw the Donkey wheel and realized it was the same light employed in moving the island. Besides, I love that wheel. Ben pushing it in season 4 finale was one of the iconic images of Lost. I never expected to see it again before the end, so it was a nice touch. I might not get all the answers I'm expecting, but at least I'm getting some unexpected ones :)

How cool is it that MIB still doesn't have a name? Not just that, he literally doesn't have it, since Jacob was the only one their mother named. I can't understand how some people could be angry at not getting a name; I thought this was the whole point! Very intriguing and thought-provoking; it brings to mind other nameless things, few of them good, from various mythologies. Loved this one with no reservations.

The whole Adam and Eve thing never seemed that important to me, just a nice little mystery thrown out there to link season 1 and 6 together. It was nice to finally learn who they were (great catch on MIB being Adam, Mike), but just that. That said, one thing I definitely didn't like in this episode was the Adam and Eve montage. It looked very heavily-handed to me. One of the things I love most about Lost is the subtlety with which things are presented. The creators of the show have always been careful to not show too much, usually deeming the audience bright enough to put the clues together themselves. Well this time all subtlety was shoved aside for what the writers probably hoped to be one big reveal and dramatic moment, but for me it felt cheesy and over-the-top. Come on, did we really need to see Jack and Kate finding the bodies again? We could have just rewatched that episode if we wanted it.

On a somewhat unrelated note, Mike, you responded to my comment about Sayid on the previous episode saying that we might learn something more about his situation this time. I'm assuming you meant the whole "Rebirth" aspect of the light, since you also touched on it a bit in your recap. If that was it, it was beyond vague! I'm still not sure if it applies, or if it does, how we're supposed to interpret it. We know the water in the temple has healed people before; healed, not resurrect - an important distinction. If we're to assume that this light was the source of the water's healing powers, then maybe something happened to it when it's protector died without leaving anybody in his place? Maybe it ran somewhat "wild"? Or were these strange changes to the water's (and the light's, correspondingly) powers do to MIB tampering with it somehow? I'm just throwing out ideas as I type. Hell, this is frustrating, knowing that I won't get a definite answer to this!

2 episodes left. I've limited myself to one episode per night this week, because I want to time it so I watch the finale over the weekend. I've got a feeling I wouldn't be very productive at work after it. I'll probably watch the next episode tomorrow, then take Friday night off (to remember what real life feels like, lol) and hit it big on Saturday. I can't wait, and at the same time I don't want it to end!

Mike V. said...

Hi Leta! Yeah I thought it was a good episode. I think the hate was that so near to the end they showed an episode that had nothing to do with the main characters we'd been following....and especially right after that deadly blow the previous week. Hours were precious and they didn't think this was important. Even though it was VERY important in indicating where the final episodes were going and how it all began. You have to look into things more like the all powerful energy is the MAGNETIC energy we'd been talking about for seasons. But, it was so long ago they didn't know what magnetism was. The Island housed an important energy...we always knew that. And this explained how important that energy was and why people have been coming to the island over and over again (like DHARMA....i don't think they were invited by Jacob. They wanted to harness the energy)

With the name...people just assumed they had already figured out MIB's name was Essau as in the biblical tale of Jacob and his brother Essau. So they were annoyed that they couldn't check that off their list. It's kind of ridiculous, I agree!

The only reason the Adam/Eve thing was important was because Damon and Carlton would always say on their podcast that the answer to that would prove they knew what they were doing all along. Still, it could've been a lie! lol Thanks on me catching MIB would be Adam. lol I think I remember them debating whether to show the montage or not. They decided to do so to hit home the fact that this episode DID tie into our Survivors' tale. In fact, it's the events that set it all in motion. But yeah it was a bit heavy handed.

You got it on Sayid. The whole "rebirth" part is what I was referring to. Yes, still very vague....I think we're meant to take MIB at his word that he brought Sayid back. So maybe somehow he had that power. I dunno...lol But, in any case, we can speak after the finale for possibly the writers' motivation for having that storyline for Sayid. It certainly put him on a path of redemption after doing some pretty horrible things throughout his life and on the island. That is one of the frustrating ones though. I'll have to reread what the LOST encyclopedia said about Sayid...or maybe even LOST-pedia. Sometimes the fan encyclopedia had better answers than the official one. lol

Enjoy the final episodes!! They're both really good. The finale was longer than normal as can be expected. And just grab a box off tissues. You'll need it. I probably won't get to your responses until Monday for the finale but I WILL respond! Remember to check out the Epilogue recap and YouTube link to watch the epilogue...as well as my 1 year after LOST ended anniversary post where we explored some of the more ambiguous stuff. And, of course, I must plug TVaddictsblog.com where a subset of us continue to discuss other television shows regularly. I'm a little less formal with my blogging now...but I'm married with 2 kids now instead of living the Bachelor's life as I did for most of LOST! :-) So time is precious these days!

Anyway, like I said enjoy the final 2 and can't wait to hear what you think!

superj561 said...

I think it was a good thing for them to include the flashback to Jack and Kate finding the Adam and Eve bodies in season 1. The first time I saw you mention them somewhere in the season 4 comments (after finding your blog while watching that season) I had no idea what you were talking about. And I only started watching the show back in June or July last year, not 6 years ago haha. If I never found your blog I wouldn't have remembered the flashback scene at all, and if the flashback wasn't included I just wouldn't have made the connection (until I inevitably watch the series again haha). However, I definitely would've remembered it if at the time I knew that the writers had said it would play into the end game of Lost, but since I didn't I probably just saw it as a non-important scene and eventually forgot about it.

With all of the negative reception to some of these final episodes I can totally see why you're always telling people to go into the last episodes with an open mind and to not expect to get all of the answers haha. Personally I guess I'm easily pleased like you (after all, I really liked the first half of season 6 of Walking Dead, which a lot of people didn't as I'm sure you know haha), I've been enjoying these last few episodes quite a bit. I think my only problem right now towards the end of Lost is that Walt didn't play a bigger role with all of the emphasis on him in earlier seasons. I understand the age problem with the sideways timeline, but as far as the island timeline goes I don't think he would've been too old, since he appeared in season 5 only a year earlier. I'm assuming he'll at least show up in the finale, but I just thought he would have a bigger role.

I watched this episode yesterday and I'm about to watch the second to last episode, I'll most likely be watching the finale tomorrow. I don't want it to end haha! But the great thing about Lost is that it was basically made to be re-watched with the knowledge of what is going on in the earlier seasons, and I look forward to doing that.

I'm waiting for probably the last episode to comment more on the characters and the plot because I want to see how it all plays out first. Specifically because I think I've had the same spoiler that Rosie, a few comments up, did since before I started watching the show haha, but I'm not positive. I guess I will see in the next few days!

Mike V. said...

Hi SuperJ! Glad to see you're nearing the end. But sad for you as well because I still long for new episodes of the show! lol

Yeah, you make good points about including the flashback (or technically flashforward for this episode lol)....and also good points about binge watchers not really remembering the Adam/Eve stuff. Meanwhile...we all obsessed over stuff like that.

Glad my warnings may have helped you appreciate the final season...but sounds like you're like me when it comes to enjoying TV shows. Don't overthink it...just go for the ride. Granted...I totally overthought LOST, but once the episode aired, those thoughts went out the window and I just enjoyed the good drama. Then back to overthinking afterwards! I thought TWD has been awesome this season! I didn't realize people were complaining...maybe not to the extent that you're suggesting! (I do write a recap on that btw on my new blog...I forget if you saw that or not. Not as elaborate as this LOST blog, but we still have good discussions)

RE: Walt...I don't want to spoil anything about the rest of the series...but definitely check out the Epilogue: The New Man in Charge when you're done. My recap and link to youtube to watch it are on the homepage of my site.

Look forward to discussing once you've seen it all! Enjoy the final episodes!

superj561 said...

As far as TWD goes, maybe it was mostly just the Reddit community that didn't like it haha. A lot of people felt that the pacing was off with so much action in the first 3 episodes and then such a "slower pace" on the rest of them, which I don't agree really. I do think that if they changed the order of some of the episodes other people might have been happier with it. But yeah, that subreddit only has like 250,000 followers compared to the 33 million followers on TWD facebook page. And yeah, I did see your blog before and when it starts back up I plan to check it out every week.

Anyway, yeah I like thinking about stories too instead of just plowing though them, it's much more enjoyable to me haha. And yeah, when I'm done I'll definitely check out your other blog pages and the epilogue that you're talking about, thanks!

Mike V. said...

TWD - gotcha on Reddit. I'm a novice on reddit and only check out like the top posts and dive into movies and TV sometimes. Never look for those sub-reddits. But yeah...I'm sure when you get into those sub-reddits of hardcore fans you're going to find your loud "internet" critics that pretty much pan anything when given a soapbox for their commentary. lol Haters gonna hate! :) For me...since Scott Gimple took over I think the show has had a much more focused direction and improved immensely in quality. I've always enjoyed the show but there just seems to be an extra layer of depth to it now that wasn't necessarily there before. Some of that is in cast improvements as well.

No problem on the epilogue comments. There's also a couple posts I did..one before season 6 and one in the middle of a couple week hiatus where I went over 23 remaining mysteries on the show and then revisited during the hiatus. Those were pretty comprehensive posts too...and of course there are a few mysteries on there that even I was overlooking things and wasn't really expecting answers to all of it. But it was still fun to do!! So check them out of you're looking for more!

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