Wednesday, May 12, 2010

LOST: Season 6 Episode 15 - Across the Sea

Hello LOSTIES!!!!  It's sad to think I will only be saying this in front of a LOST Recap 2 more times after this one.  But, at least we should have all GREAT EPISODES to discuss and Instant Classics if you ask me!  For me, this one was yet another WOW!!!!! episode in a series of awesomely awesome WOW WORTHY EPISODES!    We got several answers and even expanded the Island mythology even though we'll be wrapping up in 3.5 more hours.  Sure, nothing was extremely SHOCKING in the episode, but it was still great to see it all and I think it was a necessary back-story to prep us for the end game.  I already have been reading some initial reactions and they seem disappointed with what we got and are most concerned with the fact that the Man in Black does not have a name yet.  I beg to differ folks!  We most certainly have a name, and it is what I may start calling him by the end of this recap until I'm told differently!  I can see why the episode may not have been what people were expecting, and with so few hours left in the show it gets even more frustrating when an episode doesn't meet expectations.  But that's when I need to tell everyone to CHILL, sit back, relax and enjoy the information we ARE getting.   It's all going to be over soon and this information we learned may prove very worthwhile for the 3.5 hour end game of last that is approaching.  There will be plenty of time from May 24th until the end of eternity to scrutinize how Damon and Carlton brought their 6 year complicated opus to a conclusion. And it's going to be tough for me to not ask any questions, even knowing that every answer will bring more questions!  (Eve taught me that!)  But, I don't think these Island Inhabitants of yesteryear know that this is what us LOST Addicts do!  So, let's move on and do what we do best!

Across the Sea - AWAY from the Island.  There is a land out there, yet some characters we have met have never seen it.  We took a break from the present day Island story to see the origin stories of both Jacob and the Man in Black (or for a lot of this episode, he was the BOY in Black)!  We follow them from birth to their undoing.  And we met a new character along the way, played by an awesome Allison Janney!    I think this episode was a bit therapeutic simply for the fact that it took us away from the dreary and mournful story that we are about to resume next week.  We lost some major characters last week and instead of bringing us right back into the fold, we get to continue our private mourning while learning a little bit more about why it may have happened!   Time to dive in folks.  One storyline to follow, so it shouldn't be too difficult to follow along this week! 

The Birth
(Some time before 1823) 

We open up on a wreck in the middle of the ocean.  There is a woman floating by and is still alive.  She catches a glimpse of that all too familiar Island!  Before long, we see her unconscious on the beach along with wreckage from a ship.  She is clearly pregnant!  (Was anyone else thinking twins immediately?)   She moves inland and finds drinking water.  Wow, compared to Jack she found that stuff really quickly!


  • Note: I stated before 1824 because we know Richard arrived in 1867 and we know it's been AT LEAST 43 years that Jacob were on the Island prior to Richard's arrival (we get 2 numbers during the episode.  13 Years after the birth and then 30 years after that).  But, if I were a betting man, I would guess that it had to be longer than that!   But at least late enough when SHIPS were sailing the ocean blue! 
  • Anyway, it is not long before we meet another woman (played by Allison Janney).  I'd love to give you a name, but we never get one.  Of course, there is a name that I will call her but considering we don't learn it until the end of the episode I'm going to have to keep you in the dark a little longer!  (you know for a whole rambling blog!)  

  • I'll make it easier by calling Red Dress woman Claudia since we do eventually learn her name.  And isn't it ironic that she was wearing a "RED SHIRT" so to speak? 
  • Island Woman speaks in Latin (ahh the language of the enlightened and of THE OTHERS) to Claudia and offers her help.   Claudia speaks Latin back (I think).  Perhaps a sign of when this episode took place in the timeline?   Eventually, they begin speaking English, but maybe we're meant to assume that the entire episode was really spoken in Latin but just for the sake of our ears and the actors/actresses LEARNING 45 minutes worth of Latin dialogue, we got English!
  • Island Woman takes Claudia to THE CAVE!  (The same cave that MIB led Jack to in season 1 appearing as Christian Shephard.   It just turned out that this cave used to be the home of Jacob, MIB and this Island Lady!)    Now, of course, this early in the episode I think we could sense that we were going to get an answer to the question that has plagued us since way back in the beginning of the first season.   The question that we have theorized on forever.  The question that executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse claim that they placed so early in the show so that they could PROVE they knew what they were doing from the beginning.   We do get that answer at the end of this episode.   Are you sold?  I'd say I'm about 50% sold.  But I'll tell you one thing.  I totally called 50% of the answer weeks ago and no one believed me!  But, that's for later in the blog as well. 

  • Claudia asks the Woman where the rest of her people are.   The Woman says that it's only her.  She states that she arrived on this Island the same way that Claudia did, by ACCIDENT.   The woman dresses Claudia's wounds.  
  • Claudia begins to ask how long she has been there but the Woman interrupts stating "Every question I answer will only lead to another question."  Ahhh, such is the tale of  6 seasons of LOST.  And such is the tale of what Damon and Carlton have been telling us.  They're providing answers, but it's only going to make us ask what happened before that.   So if this woman was the predecessor to Jacob and MIB, then who came before her?  How did she get there?  How long has she been there?   How long was the person before her there?  And so on and so forth....all the way until you get back to the Big Bang (creation of the Universe)....and then someone will ask....well what came before the Big Bang?   The questioning will never end.   This is both the beauty of LOST and the frustration of LOST.  But we love it anyway! 
  • Claudia wants to find the rest of her crew.   This woman says that if there are other people on the Island that SHE will find them.   We were told that everything this woman says will need to be analyzed and re-watched, but sometimes I think a line of dialogue can just be a line of dialogue.  But it was kind of creepy the way that she said it. 
  • And then Claudia goes into labor.  The pushing begins and then Island Woman delivers the baby! His name?   Claudia immediately names him, JACOB!  The Michael Giacchino theme for Jacob begins to play.  NICE.  But it is interrupted by Claudia screaming again.  Oh yes, there was a 2nd child!  Another boy.  Of course, we already know that this is the BOY IN BLACK (BIB).   Claudia did not expect a 2nd child and states that she only picked one name.   DOH!!   I couldn't help but laugh here.  We all think we're going to get the name but then she just doesn't have one for him.  I mean come on people.  That is funny stuff!   Also funny was that she wrapped up Jacob in a white blanket and the BIB in a Black blanket.  Good times! 

  • But one question we'll be asking...did Claudia seal her fate by only asking to see "HIM" instead of "THEM"?   It would appear she was disregarding the Boy in Black before she even gave him a chance.   The Island woman simply gets up and says "I'm sorry" and then bashes in Claudia's skull with a rock.  OUCH!   And thus...Island Woman became the "CRAZY MOTHER" that Flocke had talked about a few episodes back to Kate.  And I believe Doc Jensen has already dubbed her as MOTHER OF THE OTHERS!  (since Jacob does initiate the OTHERS organization with Richard later on)   

  • Anyway, did Fake Mom see this as her way out of her current predicament?   Was Claudia doomed to die regardless of her feelings towards BIB?   Probably...but it sure seemed like it was the reason that she gravitated towards BIB over Jacob.   

Childhood
(13 Years Later)

The Game
We revisit Jacob and The Boy in Black years later into their early teenage years.  We confirm that Jacob is indeed the Ghost Boy we've been seeing on the Island in present day.   The Boy in Black has found a game on the beach.  Jacob runs up and sits on a log with BIB to discuss. 
  • The game with the black and white stones is an obvious call back to a few things.  Adam and Eve, yet again who were seen with Black and White stones in their pouch.  Also, in season 1 with Locke and Walt playing Backgammon and Locke explaining how old the game was and how there were 2 sides.  One is Light and One is Dark.   And of course, finally we have seen that Jacob and the Man in Black also have been exchanging White and Black stones as a bit of an inside joke to who just won the latest battle.  We now see that this theme goes back to early in their childhood when they were close brothers and good friends.  (Hurley - Who killed you?  Jacob - An old friend that got tired of my company)  
  • BIB explains that he just knows how to play the game and he will teach Jacob how to play as long as he doesn't tell their mother.   The game looks very much like the Egyptian Game of Senet, something that many of this blog's commenters have brought up on various occasions (as recently as last week!)   We know that there are various ties to Egyptian lore on this show, and it's looking like we may never really get to see WHEN or WHY that started.  (or how the statue got built...but alas, we go back to the Big Bang Questioning again.  We know the Island is old and we know many people were brought there over the years.  Maybe that's enough)    Anyway, here's more Egyptian stuff!
  • Jacob promises to keep quiet and wants to play the game. 

One on One Time with Jacob (at the Caves)
  • We see stand-in Mom creating a tapestry.  Hmmmm, well now we know how Jacob learned the skill of making one.  But, we may even learn WHY he was making one by the end of the episode. 
  • Fake Mommy Dearest asks Jacob where his brother is, to which she already knows Jacob is keeping something.  He tells her that BIB is at the beach staring out at the ocean.  Already, early hints that this boy wanted to get off of that rock!    And of course, we can't forget that Jacob told Hurley that Jack needed to stare out at the ocean to figure out for himself what he needed to do next.   Doesn't seem to fit with BIB staring out at the ocean, but I thought it was worth bringing up. 
  • Jacob offers up his help with the tapestry.  Yep, he's learning!
  • Mother Other asks what they were doing down at the beach.  Jacob wasn't very good in his lie.  She asks him if he loves her to which he responds yes.  (interesting question, right?)   She demands the truth.  
One on One Time with the Boy in Black (at the Beach)
  • We immediately strike upon the better bond between BIB and Other Mom when they're all smiles and kind of making fun of Jacob behind his back.  BIB realizes that Jacob told her about the game.  It is interesting that she told him that Jacob doesn't know how to lie, "He's not like you."  If we're meant to listen to every word she has to say, then I would say that's an important thing to remember!  Of course, we already know that Flocke put together one long con to get where he is now with 3 Candidates out of 6 dead.  (and Jacob dead of course) 
  • Faux Mom tells BIB that he is special, which it would seem she was grooming HIM to be her replacement.  
  • He asked if he could keep the game which she said that he could as she left it for him in the first place.  BIB was hoping that it came from somewhere other than that Island...somewhere Across the Sea.  She goes into LONG CON mode to try and convince him that there is nowhere off of that Island.  The Island is it.  Why would they know any different since they were born there and knew nothing else in life?
  • The questions start coming from BIB - Where did we come from?  She says that they came from her, she came from her mother....to which BIB asks where her mother is.   She tells him her mother is dead.   And of course, BIB has no idea what DEAD even means.  Fake Mom tells him that Dead is something he will never have to worry about.  
Here for a Reason
  • We next fine Jacob and MIB running after a boar with their hunting sticks.  But before they can catch up with it, someone else drives a steak into the boar instead.   They have never seen other people like the on the Island, so they immediately go to their "mother". 




  • She says that these people are not like them and do not belong there.  And then she explains that they are there for a reason.   She is about to tell them but then hesitates thinking that it is not time yet.  
  • She brings them blindfolded through the jungle, to which we learn is so that they cannot find their way back there.   She tells them on the way that she knew about the people and that they are dangerous.   She then says that what makes them dangerous is the same thing that makes ALL MEN dangerous.  "They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt...it always ends the same."   Some may recall the Man in Black telling Jacob this the first time we met them during the Season 5 Finale.   She then lies telling BIB that they come from another part of the Island and that he should not go looking for them.  
  • She says that they will hurt them because they are people and that is what people do.  BIB then asks if they can hurt each other since they are people too.  She removes their blindfolds and tells them as she touches them (in a future Jacob-like sorta way) "I've made it so you could never hurt each other".......interesting.....Perhaps when you are the PROTECTOR OF THE ISLAND, you can make up your own rules?   Was this the reason that MIB couldn't kill Jacob himself?  And why he needed to find a loophole?   Or is she some crazy kind of deity that just has these super powers?  I am more inclined to believe that these "powers" are passed from one protector to the next.   

  • Then she turns them around and she shows them some a BRIGHT GOLD LIGHT going into some kind of cave.   "This is the reason we're here."    Seems pretty important, right!?   She warns them to not go in there.   What's down there?  LIGHT.  (nooooo really?)    The warmest, brightest light they have ever seen or felt.  And their reason for being there is to make sure that no one will ever find it.   BIB exclaims how beautiful it is.  The Mother explains how a little bit of this light is inside of every man, but they always want more.  Jacob asks if they can take the light.  She tells them that they can't but if they try it may put it out.  And if the light goes out, it goes out everywhere......ummmmm APOCALYPSE anyone?   All because of a little Nightlight?     I'll admit, I was a little underwhelmed at this "protect the light" concept at first...but then they started adding to it during the episode, and I found it a little more interesting.   A fellow commenter on the blog (AUStarWars, who requested I give him credit if I used this reference) made note to talk about the almighty mysteriously glowing BRIEFCASE in Pulp Fiction.  We never truly learn what is in that briefcase but the fact that we don't know what is in there is what drives so much debate.   LIGHT inside Man?  Yeah...we may need to wait until conversation #2 with this woman to discuss this Glowing Light further.   But at this point we all were pretty much saying...."REALLY??"    

  • She told them that she has protected this place but that she won't be here forever.  Then looks at the both and tells them that it will have to be one of them.  We leave this scene with the Fake Mom looking at BIB and him staring with excitement over the cave.  


The Rules
We return to the game of senet that Jacob and BIB are playing.  Of course, BIB seems to be making up his own rules to the game. 
  • The Boy in Black tells Jacob that he can't pull off a move he just did because it's against the rules. Jacob is frustrated because BIB made up the rules.  He says that he found the game and one day Jacob can make up rules for people to follow too.  The ultimate foreshadowing of future events.   This is kind of why I was suggesting above that maybe the PROTECTOR of the Island can make up their own rules, especially if Faux Mom "made it so" they couldn't "hurt" each other.   Maybe Jacob put some protective bubble over Charles Widmore so Ben couldn't kill him either?   What about all of the time travel rules and how rules in general don't apply to Desmond?  Is it all related?   The producers have pretty much said that they have no intentions of explaining ALL of the rules just simply stating the fact that there ARE rules and how they come about is the key.  So it would seem that these scenes are what are defining how rules get put into place.   Satisfied?  Probably not everyone, but I'm cool with it.  Of course, I have also been accused of being too easy on the show.  So sue me for enjoying a television show and writing about it with unabashed glee!  I don't care.  At the end of the day, I still enjoyed it!  (yes, I got attacked on Twitter for praising this episode)

  • And after BIB has had is fun rubbing in his rules to Jacob, he then sees the GHOST of Claudia (his true mother) roaming around.  Granted, he has no idea who she is.   And also interesting to note....Jacob cannot see her!  
  • BIB excuses himself and moves towards the ghost.  He asks why Jacob cannot see her.  She says that it's because she's dead.  Ummm, Okay, so then why can HE see her?   And don't even tell me this is foreshadowing that Hurley is going to become the next smoke monster!   Of course, we know Desmond and Sawyer both saw Ghostly Visions of Kid Jacob as well.  So what does THAT mean? 
  • Claudia asks the Boy in Black to come with her so that she can show him where he comes from.   He follows her across the Island to a camp with huts and lots of people.  Who are they?   Well they are the other people that were on Claudia's ship.
  • We are told that they came 13 years ago and that their ship was wrecked in a storm (hmmm, another storm.  We know something is coming on this!  I figured it would be in this episode.  Not so much!)   She explains to him what a ship is since he never heard of one.  It is how they came across the sea.  She explains that there are many things across the sea.  Naturally, this is the start of his interest being very high of getting off of the Island.  Of course, now it makes more sense of him wanting to get off of the Island to "go home".  It doesn't necessarily mean that he wanted to go back to be with his family or anything like that.  He just knows that he wasn't supposed to be born on that Island and he wants to see what is OFF of the Island.    Of course, this is assuming that this Boy is still whatever is driving the consciousness of the Smoke Monster.  But we'll get to that below.  
  • Claudia breaks it to BIB that she is his mother not that other lady.    He didn't look to thrilled to learn that! 


Leaving
  • Boy in Black goes back to the cave to grab some stuff and Jacob and then he takes him out into the jungle.  He tries to reason with Jacob and tell him that they are never going back and that their "mother" lied to them all of this time.  That their real people were the people on the other side of the Island.   Jacob just refused to believe it and ended up beating BIB to a bloody pulp.  Woaaaa easy there Jacob!   And what is up with the "HURTING"?   Didn't we just learn that she made it so they couldn't hurt each other?  Perhaps it was just not able to KILL each other?  Or maybe she never did anything and it was a rule that JACOB put into action?  Or maybe I'm looking too much into this?   In either case, Jacob has a bit of a mean edge to him as well!  But we had seen that in Ab Aeterno also. 



  • Fake Mom breaks up the fight and is horrified at what Jacob has done to his brother.  He explains that BIB is planning on leaving to go to THEM.   BIB explains that he knows now what happened.  He knows he is from across the sea, that she murdered their mother.   He then pleads with Jacob to come with him as neither of them belong with her.  Jacob refuses to go with.   Then the "mother" pleads with BIB and tells him that he will NEVER be able to leave this island.  She looks dead serious too.   He refuses to believe her and says he will prove it one day.   And then he left. 
  • The next day is a pretty defining day into the future destiny of Jacob.  Jacob learns that BIB will not return and also his fake mother admits to killing his real mother.   She says that if she had let his mother live, she would have taken Jacob back to her people who are bad people.  She couldn't let him become one of them.  He needed to stay good.  So what do we think?  Is this what inspires Jacob to start making lists and kidnapping children when the 815ers crash on the Island?   Did he have anything to do with that or was that Ben calling the shots?  It would seem that he wants to prove to MIB in the future that people are inherently good and that he shouldn't have to interfere to prove this.  So, I give the question about "why did the OTHERS take the children" an ALMOST answer!   But there is still plenty of room for debate. 


  • Jacob then questions whether he is good or not and asks why this woman loves the Boy in Black more than him.   Her response is that she loves them in different ways.  Um...interesting!  Not sure if this ever sits well with Jacob considering his reaction 30 years from then.   But in any case, this woman asks Jacob to stay with him and he does accept that he will stay "for awhile".  

Adulthood
(30 Years Later)


We catch up with Jacob who is now working on that tapestry by himself.  It is most likely the same one that they were working on 30 years prior.  As we recall, Jacob spoke to MIB and Ben of how long it takes to make one and to actually make the thread.  "But I guess that's the point."  The tapestry looks near completion and Jacob asks what his fake mother thinks about the end result.  She looks less than thrilled but tells him it is very nice.  When Jacob asks if she is okay, she responds that she is just tired.  






The beginnings of the Jacob/MIB Conflict
We catch Jacob watching the shipwrecked crew who have all been there for 30 years now.  And of course, he has been watching his brother, the now fully grown Man in Black, as well.  


  • It looks like Jacob and MIB have been meeting behind their fake mother's back for years now.  And they continue to play their game of senet. 
  • MIB regrets asking about the woman as she never asks about him.  We should note that Jacob acts very childish in this scene, but considering he has had no human interaction besides his "mother" and sometimes his brother, maybe that's to be expected?   
  • Anyway, MIB asks why Jacob watches them.  And Jacob says that he wants to know if their "mother" is right about MIB's people and if they're bad.  The man in black admits that the woman is insane ("I too had a crazy mother") but that she's definitely right about the people being "bad people".   Jacob doesn't really see it.  He said it's easy for Jacob to judge from above, but he has lived among them for 30 years.  They are greedy, manipulative, untrustworthy, and selfish.   He is only with them as a means to an end.  This is most certainly the beginning of their conflict that we see repeated in Ab Aeterno with Richard and the opening scenes of season 5's The Incident.  Jacob trying to prove that man is inherently good and MIB proving that all men are corruptible.  
  • MIB wants to leave the Island and tells Jacob he has found a way off.  Jacob said that it's impossible and that there is no way off of the Island.  Then out of nowhere, MIB takes his infamous knife and throws it at the well behind him, and what do you know?  IT STICKS to the side!  oooooooh magnetism!   Although, they have no idea what to call it since they have lived on this Island their whole loves and who knows how much the outside world knew of Magnetism/Electromagnetism in whatever year it is?   I'm sure someone on wikipedia knows!   It is interesting that this wiki entry dates awareness of magnetism back to 625 B.C. however the discovery of Electricity and Magnetism causing compass needles to spin is around 1819.  And we all remember Flocke explaining to Desmond how people wanted to see why their compass needles were spinning when they walked to certain points of this Island and so they started to dig, right?   Anyway, I've imagined Jacob and MIB's conflict having gone on for much longer than the early 1800s but it is interesting nevertheless!



  • Anyway, I got a little sidetracked!  Jacob  looks shocked at this magic of the knife sticking to the well.  MIB explains that there are very smart men among his people.  Men who are curious about how things work.  They have discovered places all over the island where "metal behaves strangely".  When they find one of these sites, they dig.  Just as Flocke described to Desmond a few episodes back.  But this time?  They found something.  (more on that in a bit)
  • MIB asks Jacob to come with him, asking what he's going to do when their fake mother dies.  Jacob states that she's never going to die.   MIB, in perhaps a foreshadowing comment, states that "everything dies".   Jacob states that he doesn't want to leave this place as it is his home.  MIB retorts that it isn't his.   He will stop at nothing to leave the Island. 
Fake Mother Foils the Plan
  • Jacob returns to the cave and his "mother" asks him where he was.  Jacob assumes that she knows where he was.   So, as we learned, Jacob is no good at lying.  It would seem she knew he has been meeting with MIB all along.  
     
  • Jacob tells her that the Man in Black has finally found a way to leave the island.  She seems very concerned about this.  
  • She heads out into the jungle to confront her former favorite fake son herself.  She heads to the well and waits for everyone to walk away from it.  Then, she heads down the ladder.   MIB is there playing with the fire.  I looked for some symbolism with the hot coals and the fact that he kept prodding at it, but I got nothing!  Foreshadowing of his smokey fate?  Maybe...but let's move on!   Fake Mama is there!



  • He turns to face a potential attacker but then sees that it's her and he permits her to join him.   She is worried and MIB states that she should be.  He has been searching for that cave of beautiful light for 30 years.  He has become obsessed with it, but not once has been able to find it.   But then he began to think what if he could get to the light underneath the Island from some other place?   The people he is with have seen this too and have some very interesting ideas on what to do with it.   He shows his angst towards his "mother" in stating that she wouldn't tell him what they were dealing with.  He then starts prying away at the rocks in the cave, and sure enough, there is that bright light!  And what else?  Yep, there is a large wheel standing upright in the cave. The pieces start coming together.  It's the Donkey wheel that was located underneath the Orchid station!  The one that moves the Island through time and space and the one that shoots people off of the Island into Tunisia.  WOA!!!  Totally never expected them to answer where that wheel came from! 



  • MIB says they're going to make an opening and then he will attach the wheel to a system they're building that channels the water and the light.  And then he's going to turn the wheel, and when he does, he will finally be able to leave this place.  

  • Very interesting.  First of all, I'm not going to comment on whatever year it is and that these people would be smart enough to know how to build a system so advanced that they could generate some kind of wormhole that would transport people off of the Island.  But, I do like the fact that they addressed it.  The wheel has been part of MIB's fascination all along.  Smokey advised Locke to move the Island which sent Ben and eventually him off of the rock and working into his eventual loophole to killing Jacob and getting to the point he is at now.  It's been his since the beginning.  So, when we see Christian Shephard in that cave helping Locke in season 5, we now know that was not the Man in Black's first time down in that cave, and in fact he has a lot more history in it than we knew.     I still question why the wheel was frozen when Ben went there.  And I still suggest that it has something to do with Desmond blowing the hatch at the end of season 2 and stopping the moving island in its tracks (and allowing Charles Widmore and Penny Widmore to locate the Island and get to it).   But that is a theory, I'm afraid, that I'll be carrying with me after this show is over!   Unless it somehow plays into the end game of the show.   Like I said though, I'm pretty excited that the Donkey Wheel made its way back into the story and that they felt this was an essential answer to provide!    
  • Of course, we never see this wheel completed prior to the extermination of these scientifically advanced folk on the Island.  So, I do question how it WAS completed!  But I'm getting ahead of myself.  
  • "Mother" stresses that he should not go.  But MIB keeps claiming that he is special and that he does not belong here.  It keeps stressing how badly he wants to leave this Island.   So his fake "mother " then seemingly gives up and tells him goodbye.  They embrace but then just as she had said to his real mother, she apologizes and then runs MIB into the wall knocking him unconscious.   I thought for sure that she killed him, but not so much!  She had other plans instead. 





Back to the Cave of Light
We next join the woman with Jacob walking back to the place he took him and his brother when they were children.  She wakes him up in the cave and tells him "It's time."  
  • On the way she tells Jacob that she had to say goodbye to his brother.  She doesn't have a choice but to let him go, it's what he wants.  Hmmm, really?   Is she lying to Jacob here too?  Because she most certainly did not let him go! 
  • She brings him to the LIGHT Cave and then tells Jacob that he is going to protect it now.   This is not a task that Jacob accepts very willingly.  But we'll get to that in a second. 


  • Jacob asks what is down there and the woman gets a little more descriptive.  She describes what is in the cave as "LIFE, DEATH, REBIRTH -  It's the Source, the heart of the island."  She asks him to promise her that whatever he does, he will not EVER go down there.   Jacob asks if he would die, to which she responds it would be worse than dying, much worse.   
  • Now, I think we know what that 2nd half of the discussion means by the end of this episode.  But as for what is in the cave, Life, Death, Rebirth - the heart of the Island.  Can we assume that this is why there are dead spirits roaming around the Island?   Sure, not sure it would explain why they are OFF of the Island too (following Hurley around).  But when she makes a comment that if the light goes out there, it goes out everywhere..that sure sounds like it's talking about the rest of the world.  What about this REBIRTH comment?  Could that possibly explain how Sayid was brought back?  Could this energy have been flowing in the Temple Spring?  (of course, tainted somehow by the Man in Black)    Or does the Rebirth solely have to do with what happens to the MIB?   Just throwing the questions out there.  I know there are no answers!  Something tells me they may leave it this vague and just allow us to speculate on it forever.   
  • One thing is for sure, this LIGHT that we are seeing, seems to be the same light that caused the Time Travel Flashes.   Maybe not the PURPLE SKY when Dez blew the hatch though (only because the producers have stated before that the light that surrounded the Island when it moved was different than the Purple light that surrounded the Island when Dez turned that key).   This LIGHT must be the "POCKET OF ENERGY" that the "healer" referred to in the Season 2 Rose and Bernard centric - S.O.S. episode and the same pocket of energy that Eloise Hawking referred to in Season 5's 316.  It is what creates the unique properties of the Island and apparently it is very important to protect it for the sake of the entire world.  That's what we get folks!  If anything, it raises the stakes of the end game of LOST.  Whether people like it or not is another matter all together.  I am fine with it.  I think more people will latch on when we see the characters we have become familiar with over 6 seasons dealing with what was set up in this episode.  3.5 hours left folks.  3.5 hours!  It's coming whether we like it or not! 
  • Anyway, the mother pulls out the infamous bottle of wine that we first say in the Ab Aeterno episode.   She pours Jacob a drink.  She says something in Latin here as she consecrates the wine (yes, I used that word intentionally).  Anyone that is versed in Latin can feel free to chime in on what she said! I'm sure it will be up on Lostpedia before we know it!  
      

  • She passes the cup to Jacob asking him to drink it.  By drinking it he accepts the responsibility to protect this place for as long as he can, and then he'll have to find his replacement.  So, she pretty much admits to killing Claudia and raising these kids to eventually replace her.  Did she BRING this ship to the Island?   Did she cause the storm that wrecked the ship?   Similar to possibly Jacob causing a storm that brought the Black Rock there?  3.5 hours folks, 3.5 hours! 
  • But, what we are treated to is finding out how reluctant Jacob was to accepting this responsibility.  She mentions that her time is over and that he must do it.  Interesting in that she pretty much knew when her death was coming, similar to Jacob knowing that his was coming.  Jacob felt that she was only asking him as a last resort because she had favored the Man in Black.  She tells him that it was always supposed to be him and she sees that now.  She mentions that one day Jacob will see it too, but in the meantime, he doesn't really have a choice.  
  • I know I'm getting sidetracked but I have to ask while I'm thinking about it.  So, when does Jacob learn how to leave the Island?  As far as he is concerned, there is no way off of the Island.  When you become the CHOSEN one, do you just eventually "SEE IT" as the woman mentions above?   We know he does leave the Island MANY times.   And did SHE ever leave the Island to scope out her replacements?  Every question answered leads to more questions! 
  • Anyway, Jacob does reluctantly take the cup of wine and takes a drink from it.   The woman then tells him that he is now like her. 


  •  So did drinking from the cup make Jacob immortal and give him the crazy healing powers and all of that fun stuff?  Or did drinking from the cup just make him immortal?  Does drinking the wine signify you are the next person to protect the Island?  I ask because the first thing I thought of was Jacob offering RICHARD the wine.  Maybe it wasn't Jacob's touch that made him immortal but it was drinking this wine.  And if that's the case, MIB smashed the bottle of wine, so what would be the ritual for the next protector of the Island?   And is the fact that Richard is immortal signifying that he was always next in line to replace Jacob all of this time?   It would sure seem like a huge waste of a season to protect these candidates if that was the case, right?   Anyway, interesting questions regardless, but this scene signified the start of Jacob's reign as ISLAND PROTECTOR. And it was very interesting and very fitting to see that he didn't want the job. 

Back at the Donkey Well (heh heh, get it?)

MIB wakes up from his unconscious spell and sees that there was a path of destruction that occurred during his slumber.   The well is completely filled.  This is very interesting considering the fact that at some point in time (early in time), John Locke lowered himself into that well where there was a completed donkey wheel lodged into the wall of this pocket of energy.  Later on we see Sawyer try to jump in and the well is filled but that was in 1974.  So did MIB dig it back up again?  Again, I think it will be left to speculation. 


  • The filled in well certainly didn't look as destroyed as this one either.  Maybe that well was NOT the eventual "Orchid Well" where the wheel was placed.  But it would seem like that is what they were trying to show us in this episode.  Oh well, I won't harp on it much longer! 
  • MIB sees a cloud of smoke and run towards the village where he spent the last 30 years.  All of the huts have been burned down and the people were exterminated.  They posed a threat to the Island and had to be dealt with.   Does this remind anyone of any other exterminations on the Island?  2 come to mind for me - Richard justifying killing the US Military that posed a threat in the 1950's and the Others wiping out the DHARMA Initiative in the purge of 1992.   Same concept?   It would seem so.   But here's the big question, how did this woman manage to destroy that well and kill all of these people on her own?   I had speculated briefly that maybe she had taken a dip herself in the LIGHT CAVE which may have made her a little bit smoke empowered (not to spoil what's ahead), but the fact that we witness her murder and see her remains in 2004 makes me think that this is not the case. (oh man, I'm just spoiling everything!) 


  • MIB is clearly not happy with what has gone down here.   He finds his little game that his "mother" gave him so many years ago and has a bit of a breakdown.  And this breakdown quickly turns to anger. 

Storm is Coming
Jacob and his "mother" are walking in the jungle back from the LIGHT CAVE and they hear a roar of thunder.  Jacob notes that a storm is coming to which she agrees.  She knows her time is up and she sends him off to get some firewood.  Is there a significance to the STORM arriving before this significant moment in Island history?  Maybe.  3.5 hours folks!  His "mother" gives him some parting words that meant more than just getting firewood.  "Be Careful."  



LOSTIES?  Meet Eve!

Back at the cave, the woman arrives and not long after she sees that there have been some changes since her last time there.
  • The tapestry was destroyed!  (perhaps motivation for Jacob to make a new one that took him over 140 years?)  And of course, by the time he was finished it was time for him to die.  How ironic!

  • Then she notices something in the cave that has not been there for 30 years.  Yes, the Man in Black's Senet game.  
  • The circle is complete.  She pulls out a white and black stone from the game and holds up the black stone to her face. Before she even has a chance to utter one word, a knife is stabbed through her back and through her heart in the cave where Jack, Kate, Locke and crew found 2 dead bodies all of those years later.  Immediately, we recognize that this woman is indeed EVE!  Yes, it may not be her real name, but it'll be so much easier to call her that.   And at this point, I pretty much knew that my prediction on Adam was about to come true!   RIP EVE, you were one crazy but significant lady in your brief stint on LOST! 






  • Do we think that there is significance in the fact that she never spoke before being stabbed?  We know Jacob did speak before Ben killed him.  But they made such a big deal about using this knife and attempting to kill either Jacob or the Man in Black by stabbing them before they could speak.  In both cases, they spoke and it was too late.  I believe it was just due to their persuasive abilities and not the fact that it would prevent them from dying.  But, I still found it ironic that she didn't talk.
  • Of course, she did speak after being stabbed and she uttered the words "Thank You" twice to the Man in Black.  She also told him that she wouldn't let him leave because she loves him.   MIB is clearly upset over what he did and loved his fake "mother" too.  But his anger and desire to leave the Island seemed to get the best of him here.  (and will continue to do so)
    

The Origin of Smokey
Jacob arrives to the caves and witnesses the tragedy before him.  He isn't not too thrilled with his brother!  


  • The Man in Black, in tears, begs Jacob to listen to him.  But Jacob is furious.  He dives into him and begins to beat him just like he did 30 years prior.  



  • Jacob then drags him all the way to the LIGHT CAVE as MIB pleads along the way.  He says that their "mother" was crazy and that she burned them all.  He said that Jacob can't kill him.  "She made it that way."   I guess that answers the question.  They could beat each other up as much as they desire but he can not kill him.  Jacob told his brother not to worry as he is not going to kill him.  There just so happens to be a place on this Island he can take MIB where he can provide a punishment much worse than death! 



  • They arrive at the cave of beautiful light.  MIB is upset that she brought Jacob back here and wants to know why.  He tells him that he has to protect it now.  He then asks his brother if he wants to leave this place.   He then throws him into the water flowing towards the cave and tells him to go.  OH BOY!!  He goes in and drops down into the light.  And I think we all expected what was going to come out! 
  • The light in the cave seems to darken, and a familiar sound starts to come out of it.  And alas, the evil trapped within this cave of energy seems to have been released in the form of a column of black smoke!  The Man in Black has been stripped from his body and is now trapped in this smokey form (at least, that is one way to look at it).  



  • So, I guess Smokey was never meant to be a security system for the temple or the Island.  It's just what the French people consumed with the darkness assumed it was?   I guess that Jacob DID in fact create the smoke monster as I, among others, had speculated before.  But I never would have expected that he UNLEASHED some kind of evil on the Island in a revenge scheme!  Pretty fun turn of events if you ask me.  I still wonder how long ago this was though.  Because we did see engravings in the Smokey Cave in season 5 with the Smoke Monster on it.   Of course, even if this is AFTER the Egyptian times on the Island, maybe this Smoke was released once before on the Island but then put at bay.    I dunno, we can speculate forever, but we already have our BIG BANG Issue that the producers brought up.  We'll always ask what happened before.  Opportunity for some LOST Prequels I guess!  But, considering what happened to Star Wars, maybe we should not consider this!  Maybe the official LOST Encyclopedia will have a timeline of events to help clarify when everything took place.  And perhaps share a little more history that wasn't included in the show. 
  • Jacob runs further downstream, washes his face and then discovers the lifeless body of his brother.  We are reminded by what MIB told Richard in Ab Aeterno "He took my body".   We could speculate that MIB actually died and that Smokey is really a collaboration of ALL Evil and all dead spirits on the Island.  But, so much that has happened this season seems to have been motivated by the MAN in Black.  Yes, it can take the form of dead bodies or apparently belongings of dead people on the Island but the consciousness or soul in charge seems to be the Man in Black, right?  He is the one that wanted to find a loophole to get off of the Island.  He is the one that wanted to GET OFF of the Island!  He lost his body and is angry at Jacob for it.  He had a crazy mother.  He has experienced LOSS.   Yeah, maybe the Smoke Monster (Evil Incarnate) has an agenda OFF Island and maybe MIB's motives are also being used as an ends to a means.  But, now I'm just starting to sound a little bizarre.  It's at least worth discussing, but I have to think that Smokey and MIB are still one of the same.  We have just witnessed that he lost his bodily form.  His SOUL or ENERGY has been captured into this smoke form.  Thoughts anyone? 

'

  • We see that Jacob is torn up by this moment as well.  The 2 people he cared for most (and the only 2 people he knew) are now gone.  Of course, he will eventually realize that the Man in Black is still very present and he unleashed some trouble upon this Island and possibly the world. 
Adam and Eve

Jacob brings the Man in Black's body back to the cave and lays him down.  He also lays the woman they have known as their mother next to him.  2 people that loved each other very much, just in a different way than we expected.  He takes the black and white stones and puts them in a pouch and places them in the Man in Black's hands.   We see clips from Season 1 when Jack and Kate discover the bodies and Jack identifies the bodies as male and female.  We see John Locke chime in saying "our very own Adam and Eve".    What they seemed to have left out was the fact that Jack said the bodies (or their clothing) seemed to have decomposed over 40-50 years.  Clearly, that fact is no longer in play.  It can be justified by the fact that Jack is a spinal surgeon and not a forensics expert.  And of course, the Island is a special place and things may decompose a bit differently.  



(Why was Jack shirtless and Kate in her underwear? Remember Charlie stepping on the Beehive?)









  • In any case, you can all pat me on the back on my call back in "The Substitute" on suspecting that the Man in Black was Adam of Adam and Eve!  Yes, I know I got the details mixed up and Eve wrong but you gotta give me some credit on this one, right?   Here it was:

    "
    Let me just take a wild guess here.  Maybe ADAM is the Man in Black's body and his wife was Eve.   Maybe Jacob had a hand in their death's?   And maybe the Man in Black's eternal struggle for revenge has something to do with Jacob's hand in his wife's death.   MIB talks about still feeling a sense of LOSS.   Seems to tie in nicely, right?  Oh please, hold down your applause, I'll be signing autographs after the show!  Thank you thank you! "
  • Jacob watched over his "mother" Eve and his brother Adam for a little longer and then said goodbye to his brother.    And as we kept waiting for him to finish the sentence with ADAM or Joe or Billy or whatever......



BOOM LOST!!!!!! 

Like I said, I think we got 2 names in this episode.  2 very important names in the saga of LOST.  Adam and Eve.  Maybe some people didn't care about this mystery or how they came to be.  But there have been many also wondering for 6 years who they were and how they died just laying in a cave.  How crazy is it to know that Jacob, the Man in Black and the former protector of the Island used to live in the caves that Jack deemed worthy for the survivors to find shelter in?   The same caves that the Man in Black (as Christian Shephard) led Jack to?   And in the same episode learn the origins of the Frozen Donkey Wheel and know that the Man in Black was key to its creation?   I'm sorry but I found this episode very important and I know there are haters, but I just refuse to agree with them!  

So, Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse have been telling us pretty much since season 2 that once we learn the identities of Adam and Eve we will know for sure they were not making it up as they went along.  I have been speculating since before this season began that there is no way we could possibly think that with 100% confidence.  That being said, they did a great job tying it all together.   I think they may have had some idea where they were going with Smokey's character since season 1.  That the monster was portraying Christian Shephard. That Smokey was formerly a man that lived ont he Island and his role will be KEY to the end game of LOST.  I can believe that.  For the actual details of the woman being his mother and the relationship between Jacob and Adam?  I think that may have been a little more based on character developments since then.  But tying in the Black and White themes from season 1, the end of season 5, and the stones throughout this season was a nice touch that was put to great use in this episode.  I just thought it was a great job and a great history of the Island before our LOSTIES arrived to tell how the story "only ends once".    And that ending begins next week folks.  Are you ready for some EPIC storytelling?   I sure am!   The setup for the Series Finale starts next week.
I cannot wait to continue the story of our LOSTIES, but we have plenty to discuss this week as well.  Hope you enjoyed my ramblings as always and I'll see you next week for our final Tuesday episode.  NAMASTE!!


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501 comments:

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Mike V. said...

Ej thanks so much for that link!! Awesome interview with darlton. I had posted a link that had the 1st 2 questions but that was very enlightening!

I'll comment more in the morning on that and to all other comments!

Anonymous said...

Mike,

"I still revert back to the fact that Eve had a BODY that was buried....so how could she be smokey? And also..the villagers were BURNED...not beaten up smokey style!"

If you re-read my post, I said some sort of smoke monster thing, i.e., maybe the thing worse than death is different for each person who enters the cave. Also, Adam also had a body that was buried, lol. Are you now saying that he can't/isn't the smoke monster. I still think that Eve couldn't have said a fate worse than death if you enter the cave unless someone did before.

Florin Milea said...

@anonymous - I do not understand a yota of your above post.
Eve is the name we gave to the adoptive mother of Jacob and the BIB.

Florin Milea said...

@crash - Who knows, we were told that int eh SW Kate was not guilty of any crime, so I guess your guess is good as any.

BTW, Adam and Eve were both there when God told them not to eat from the tree, and aquarius is about water, not air.

Florin Milea said...

@Snafu11 - Well thank you, the night shift, yeah, I was working hard on the day shift switcharu but I guess I have other things to do as well during the day. ;-)

Well I did mentioned the Jacob and Esau - I named BIB for everybody, we don't need the show to do that, a tint of Prometheus was thrown there and than surprise the interview says the episode is full of mythology. What I like about it is that they made it like the in the Bible whereas the same event happens to more than one person but with different results and anyone can fill in the characters from the show with their own favorite Biblical, Greek, Roman, etc historical characters and it still makes sense. I call it a universal tool, one size sort of fits all.

Florin Milea said...

What I don't like about the interview is the attitude of arrogance, such like: 'We just decided that you'll not get a name for BIB, or we'll not going to answer that question... etc.
Maybe someone, me, should tell those Hollywood or Disney characters, that we're making their show a success and they owe us those things.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - That stuff in yellow on your blog doesn't make sense to me. Eve was the adoptive mother, not a wife, so I couldn't follow the logic on it.
Across the Sea meaning that we're not on the island? Duh...

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V and others - I agree, and your recap Mike as good as ever, that this ep was very good and provided answers fitting in.

Even Jack Tatoo would've fit in if they wouldn't had dropped the ball on developing the idea of the meaning of it and why Jack. Even Nikki and Paolo was a good 'let's take a quick break and show some other characters besides the glorified ones. One filler, I can put with it.

I was wondering that the plot of a mother which doesn't look anywhere as crazy as Claire used to or is she still, killing the real mother was an unnecessary stretch. The interview says again that bad parenting made Esau who he became. I don't believe that for a moment. Esau choose to leave, choose to disobey mother, choose to be with people who corrupt, kill and destroy and than jump to conclusions and Kill her. She was very clear what was going to happen to anyone going into the cave, wishes too much of that light, etc. Esau was Forewarned about the risks and yet choose to do everything in his power to leave the island - a natural desire to see the world, but at what price?

And again, I was wondering was it grief that made Jacob do what he did resulting in Smokey, cause I don't think he didn't knew is a bad idea to do that, kill his brother although he killed mother, or Jacob had no comprehensive idea of the consequences of his actions? Jacob was very sorry for what he did.

Richard said...

Mike,
A few more things to consider.
1. Eve was likely the protector before she went down the well and became smokey as well. She was like BIB, curious. I even think it no accident that her and BIB both had dark hair. The fact she was the protector first, kept her body in tact. But, going down the well trapped her soul in the well. For MIB I'm thinking his soul is trapped in the hole, his body killed and smokey is something else released. We are triune beings--mind, body and soul. Christians believe in the trinity. Why can't there be a triune situation here?
2. I think it significant that the light can't be taken, can be extinguished and is protected. So, we are likely to have 3 teams (I know 3 again-LOL) fighting over the light. Widmore trying to take the light. Jacob trying to protect the light. And Flocke trying to extinguish the light so that his soul can be released. Where the Losties go may well determine whether it ends once (extinguished) or the cycle continues.
3. The light is not necerssarily a good thing, although it seems to be able to help Locke walk and Richard live forever--through Jacob's touch. Even too much of a good thing can be bad.

Mike V. said...

Okay, my catch-up comments. Like I said before...I think my thoughts on the PHANTOM BABY theory have been spoken (at least as much as I want to say lol) So I'll be skipping most of that discussion. I did watch the scene again and I see nothing ambiguous about it. Yes, maybe Jacob was born 2nd in the bible...but the show does not follow the biblical allusions literally, as you suggested. And I'm not sure how you could state that Jacob's story HAS been a literal allusion. Anyway, that's great that you "THINK" you have figured out the end (unless you have found spoilers and have just revealed that you KNOW how it's going to end....And I wouldn't be too thrilled about that because most of us are trying to be spoiler free). It looks like the books you referenced are all of the ones that were referenced on the SHOW, so yeah if I get bored...maybe I'll read some of them! I still say..."NO PHANTOM BABY!!!" Okay...moving on

@Johnson - I think the clarification when he was still a "MAN" was that he couldn't leave the island because the mother "LOVED HIM" and possibly because she needed him to kill her. But once he became SMOKEY...it became a whole new story. That's at least how I'm looking at it for now. I think we'll at least get more on the LATTER part (smokey leaving the island or his actual goal) in the final hours. Thanks for the props!

@David - yeah good point on Jacob being alone on the island after the deaths and body removal from souls of Eve and Adam lol I still wonder when the first time that MIB as Smokey showed up to Jacob.

@Anonymous 7:44pm - Yeah, I came to the same conclusion eventually...it was good to have the scenes there as a nice book-end. The interview with Darlton that EJ posted said that they did it intentionally not as "shoving it in our face" but to imply that these actions from 2000 years ago directly impacted the LOSTIES. Good stuff!

@Snafu - nice Alien reference lol

@Anonymous 9:55pm - Thanks for the Roman references. Sounds like it was definitely 2000 years ago though and it seems that Darlton confirmed that in their interview. Maybe the Islanders had a sense of style with clothing that was CENTURIES ahead of its time! :-)

@EJ - 1.) Good call on Walt being special. Totally didn't think of that. If Walt is never brought up again...maybe that's a good way to consider it! 2.) Yeah I had heard back in season 4 that they were going to start showing "MOMMY" issues with some of the characters...but we never really got many. I think Claire and her Mother, Kate and her Mother were really the only 2. And only Kate's was season 4. Oh duhh....Daniel and Eloise! 3.) I think we saw the "ORIGIN" of the Others when Jacob and Richard made the deal for him to be an advisor. Before that...everyone that came to the island was killed by Smokey. That's just my assumption though. Of course...there were probably people BEFORE "EVE" on the island too but that's not where this story is going so I'm getting sidetracked! lol 5.) I think you're right in that it didn't clarify any of Smokey's weaknesses. 6.) I like that comment too about the temple being built over the LIGHT...or at least that it might be connected somehow.

Mike V. said...

@Florin - I'm going to keep calling MIB, "MIB" for now lol Of course, it sounds like we're not getting the name so that might be forever! But I refuse to call him Esau! I have since the season 5 finale. Why? Because, it's not his name!! At least Adam was a name provided by Locke in season 1. I'll get to more of your comments in a few minutes (or when I get to work lol)

@Ian - yeah we were on comment overload yesterday...and almost 9000 hits when the day was over. INSANE! I'd say that is why we never got MIB's name....but we called Ben "HENRY and BENRY" for a year and refused to call him Ben.....but then his actions as Benjamin Linus SOLD us on the fact that this man was "BEN" lol According to Darlton, naming him just wasn't important so they toyed with us instead in this episode. Good times. Also, according to them...they indicate that more light will be shed on some things introduced in this episode in the final hours. I think the frustration of people demanding answers is getting to them....and people judging episodes on a week to week basis. Some weeks it's easier to do that...but the season needs to be taken in as a whole when its complete. So yeah, we'll be frustrated along the way...but hopefully by next Sunday around 11:30pm...we'll know what they were doing! I definitely want to rewatch the entire series....I'm just going to need to get my wife onboard with that one since I just rewatched seasons 1-5 from July last year to December LOL I don't know if she can handle it again so soon after!

Love that this blog is popular enough for people to post "ADVERTISEMENTS" for their own blogs now. Good times. (that would be to you Chicago Killa)

@Snafu - Nice on the paraphrasing of the Driveshaft song! lol And nice allusion to Satan's tempting of Jesus. And NICE shout out to Florin's night shift! lol

@Anonymous 12:08am - I'm not sure what post was yours! But I hear you on "some sort" of Smoke Monster. It's totally different with Adam/MIB having a body....we saw the lifeless body after he was thrown into the LIGHT CAVE. Smokey no longer had a body. EVE was killed and laid to rest. There was no lifeless body around. That alone, makes me think that she wasn't smokey. But I hear you on your last comment. How would she know? Maybe she saw someone else go in there before? I dunno...lol

@Florin - I hear you on the arrogance of the Darlton interview. Like I just mentioned to another post. I think the frustration of fans is getting to them. They're trying to tell their end story....and everyone else was visioning it differently. The same thing happened with David Chase and The Sopranos. Chase seemed like an "ass" at the end too when he kept saying "the episode speaks for itself"....I think they're taking a page out of his book on how to cope with the various opinions of fans. They can only tell their story. I think they've gone one step further than Chase though with explaining this episode in a little more detail...and their thoughts on the episode.

As for the stuff in Yellow....of course it doesn't make sense! I was just restating something I mentioned in the blog for the "SUBSTITUTE" (episode 4 I think?)....to show that I was on the right track with my prediction for Adam and Eve....I clearly stated above that, that I was not right about EVE....but was totally right on Adam! lol

Florin and Richard and whoever else posts...I'll get to your other posts when I get to work...gotta run!

Anonymous said...

I haven't finished reading all the comments yet, but I don't know why everyone is so concerned about whether or not Smokey (who I TOTALLY believe was Fake mom) could destroy the village with fire. All it takes is one person being dragged across or running across the campfire and into a shack, and next thing you know, the whole village is on fire. Y'all are overthinking this one! Cajun QT

MJ said...

Wow! 200 comments. I'll never catch up. LOL.

Interesting blog sent to me by a co-worker. Not sure I agree with it all, but....
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b180540_lost_redux_island_circuit_breaker.html

crashriprock said...

Phantom is a very poor choice of words.
Devine is better.Island's Baby is best.
Happy reading :)

crashriprock said...

and I didnt get the end of the show from the call sheet.
However if Im right it looks like I might win some DVDs.

Mike V. said...

@Florin - Thanks for the props on the recap! I guess you can look at EVE as Mother in many ways...but it would seem that her main goal was to find her replacement and for one of them to kill her. Yes, she had some company in the meantime too so that didn't hurt....hence why she told MIB why she didn't want him to leave. But I can agree with Darlton's summation that Bad Parenting led to MIB's demise...it pitted Jacob against MIB in frustration and since he knew he couldn't kill him....he did something even worse....turned him into the smoke monster (which he had no idea would happen naturally)...So both MIB and Jacob are damaged goods. Funny...I wrote all that before I read your last paragraph wondering if Jacob knew what he was doing. So, obviously you know my opinion now!

@Richard - 1.) Interesting that she could be protector AND smokey and maybe that kept the body intact. I don't know if I can buy it though! If that's the case anyway, then maybe we'll see "EVE" again before the end (somehow as smokey....you know if Flocke can ever take a different form before the end). Maybe Smokey will have a sitdown and explain everything that happened to him. Or maybe we'll revisit 2000 years ago in the finale before we jump into the end game of the show. Or maybe...we'll just ponder about it forever! LOL
2.) I'm still thinking that the light may already be extinguished or "part of smokey" somehow... i keep going back to Locke telling Eko that he saw a bright white light when he saw the monster. But yes..there might be 3 teams with 3 objectives. 3.) Good call with the light being the "healing power" of the island. I think that's a safe bet. Considering going back to season 2 where the "healer" told Rose there are different kinds of energies in different places in the world.

I'll get to Cajun, MJ and anyone else after my 9:00 meeting. UGH! What is up with work these days? LOL

Mike V. said...

@Cajun - I think for me it's more filling up the well and destroying the outside of the well and the trees all piled up on the well that is making me curious. But yeah...one person burning a whole village worth of people is kinda nuts too. I still am not sold that she was smokey...but people bring up good points to my reasons why i don't think it....so we'll see!

@MJ - Thanks for the link...I'll check it out...and I'm surprised i've been keeping up as well as I have! lol Not great, but it'll have to do! :-)

@Crash - Yeah I was being sarcastic with "phantom baby" but at one point you did say that the smoke monster WAS the baby...so that's where I got "phantom baby" lol But yes...I guess you submitted your theory on the end on that link that was posted? GOOD LUCK with the prize! But I think me giving you props in the blog would be the bigger prize lol

Mike V. said...

MJ, your link cut off again. I'm still not sure why sometimes it does and other times it doesn't. Here it is!

E! Article on LOST (Kristen)

crashriprock said...

If I said Smoke monster was the baby it was a typo. Becuase the smoke monster didnt exist until MIB was thrown into the light cave.
What I said was instead of the traditional stories of Devine leaders being half man and half god. We got two babies . One man One Devine.

MJ said...

Hmmm - so IF MIB went into the light and absorbed it all, then came out as Smokey - is that why we see lights flickering in the column of smoke ??

crashriprock said...

I'd like to clear up something else.
When I made the statement about Women today being to distracted by MTV cell phones and ADD
I wasnt talking to anyone in paticular. I was speeking about the day and age we live in.
If anyone took that personaly Im sorry.

Mike V. said...

Hey did anyone watch Kimmel from Tuesday night? I watched last night and was cracking up at the "connect 4 million" advertisement. You guys all need to check this one out! lol

Kimmel - "connect 4 million"

Mike V. said...

@Crash, maybe I read it wrong then. I agree Smokey didn't exist (or was trapped) until MIB was thrown into the cave. Unless we find out that EVE was both Protector AND Smokey somehow. I still think both MIB and Jacob were both normal humans who were given their "powers" by being born on the Island and being "annointed" by the previous protector (jacob) and the LIGHT cave (MIB) .... But we'll see if you're right!

@MJ - It's quite possible! But i still wonder if Locke actually saw the bright beautiful light that MIB and Jacob saw as children. "I looked into the eye of this island, and what I saw was beautiful" we know he was looking at the monster...but maybe MIB was able to show him this light...which started his obsession with keeping everyone on the island and doing the "island's" bidding. I like the idea...we'll see if it's where we go. But Darlton definitely said we will find out what happened to the light after smokey came out of the cave.

davidsalako said...

The character development of both MIB and Jacob is pretty cool to watch on the show. Jacob has certainly become more controlled and overtly clever over the course of 2000 years.
We now know that he could have beaten the crap out of Linus and chose not to do so. He was ready to die. Jacob's naivete in "Ab Aeterno" when talking to Ricardus regarding the MIB manipulating people and influencing people on THE ISLAND now makes so much more sense after viewing "Across the Sea".

I am also convinced that we haven't been shown this "fiery power" that the Protector of THE ISLAND can summon yet. I expect that to be revealed in the next few hours! This is gonna be fun.

davidsalako said...

I may be wrong but I think that Smokey existed as a malevolent nebulous force or entity or whatever one wants to call it.
When a human is thrown into the realm where it dwelt, it was able to coalesce around that human, strip it of it's life force, memories and experiences and absorb all these things to help drive it's escape into the outside world.
It had probably happened before with someone else or some other folks long before MIB.
I have no idea why Linus would think he needed to be judged by Smokey?
Perhaps Jacob never told Alpert that he was responsible for releasing this Monster?

Mike V. said...

@David - agree on the character development. All good points. The "fiery power" definitely would be an interesting twist. I wonder how they would show that without it coming off incredibly cheesy! lol But I'm excited to find out!

Mike V. said...

@David - sounds good to me on the Smokey stuff. And yeah...i would guess he never told ANYONE that he released the smoke monster lol

crashriprock said...

I dont think Fmother was a smoke monster. But Im willing to say she had fire monster capabilities.

MJ said...

Showing my age now - but after seeing the village destroyed my mind went back to an old butter commercial with lightning and thunder 'It's not Nice to Fool Mother Nature !' LOL

My verification word : mustrus
It's a sign people - to just trust in Darlton. ;-D

Mike V. said...

@Crash - i can't wait to see us find out who the next protector of the island is when they accidentally turn into a fire breathing dragon and burn Flocke to "ashes"! lol Hmm....maybe the VOLCANO on the island isn't really a volcano at all....it's just what the protector of the island can become....hence why ASH keeps Smokey away??? the theory needs work...but you see where I'm going? lol

Nice MJ lol My favorite word verification was last week when it said "Montan" LOL ahhhh I just love when we saw him lose his arm!

Holly said...

Did anyone else notice that there were no 'whispers'? This tells me that Smother may have been there from the beginning and there aren't any ghosts yet...just an observation.

Mike V. said...

@Holly - yeah but wasn't Claudia a ghost that appeared to MIB? I know some people are saying it was the mother as smokey...But i'm thinking the fact that Jacob couldn't see her made it for sure a ghost. Since only certain people can see ghosts for some reason. Everyone can see smokey apparitions i think...wait...i don't think kate saw Jack's father even though they were both standing there in season 1 when he showed up. Then again...he may have made sure he only appeared to Jack when only HE was looking. I think that is kinda what happened now that I think more about it.

How is that for a tangent?? lol

Anonymous said...

It keeps bothering me that both Jacob and MIB believe so strongly in one of Eve's teachings and just as strongly disagree with another one.

Eve told MIB and Jacob that all men are evil. She also told MIB in front of Jacob that he could never leave the island.

MIB has believes Eve or has come to the conclusion that men are indeed bad and says so to Jacob over their game at the Other's camp. He is also determined to prove Eve wrong on not being able to leave the island.

Jacob seems to firmly believe Eve when she said that MIB can't (shouldn't) leave the island. On the other hand, he seems to not believe Eve's statement that all men are evil as stated in his discussion on the beach with MIB as the Black Rock is arriving.

I just find it very interesting that these were basically the two teachings of mother along with protect the light and the two boys oppose each other so strongly on them.

I think that Jacob is now trying to protect the light that is found in all men by keeping MIB on the island. I think that MIB became sort of a black hole when going into the cave because the light in the cave seemed to go out when the smoke monster emerged.

I think that the sonic fences are used to keep the smoke monster at bay, but also believe the scientists have a way or think they do to seperate the black smoke from the light.

Maybe when the smoke monster is seperated from the light, the sideways timeline is created when all of the light is returned to it's proper place including the people/events that led to the sideways timeline we are now seeing.

Anonymous said...

Holly,

Your comment ties into my theory that since the smoke monster was created, it is absorbing the light energy of people that die on the island. I don't know if only the smoke monster can create ghosts or if people who were absorb can determine who they appear to as ghosts.

Another thought is now that Jacob's light was absorb by the smoke monster, maybe he is fighting him from within. This could explain why ghosts are arguing against the MIB now (Isabella and Michael) and why the MIB can only appear as Locke now.

Steve said...

Ok, back to share another wild and crazy theory (because, let's face, it, working at work is for suckers).

So, the theory starts like this: The "Protector" of the island not only served to protect the source of the islands power, but also had control of it. That means that, traditionally, the protector would be the embodiment of life and death (as Claudia said). This is shown perfectly by the first scene we see here, where she brings two lives into the world, and takes one out. This also fits into the fate theme I mentioned before. The problem is, when Jacob took over, that all changed.

See, when he dumped his brother down the hole, it separated the power of life from the power of death. The MIB became the embodiment of death, where Jacob remained in control of life. This is why you have never seen Jacob kill anyone (as far as I know), even why he did not defend himself from Ben. He couldn't. He had the power to grant eternal life, but not the power to take life away, even to protect his own. Symbols of life are always around him (the Ankh of the statue he lives under, as well as his followers wearing it), he almost always was seen with a fire (I'll get to this later).

MIB, on the other hand, has become death. He can only appear in the form of the dead, he kills where he goes, and the "whispers" of the island, when translated, seem to refer to his actions. Even the symbol of smoke is one of death. Smoke and ash are what is left over after life (fire) is done. It is the remnants. It is death.

Now, back to fire. Remember when the mother destroyed the village with fire? We haven't seen power like that before. How did she do it? Well, the reason we haven't seen it is because she used the combined powers of life and death. Fire is life, but killing with it is death. MIB can only kill in a cold way (with ash), where Jacob cannot kill at all. It is only with their power combined that they form... wait, sorry, got sidetracked for a minute.

Anyway, that's a new theory. And, if that is the case, again, it means neither Jacob nor MIB are actually evil or good. Life is not "good" by definition. Unchecked growth of populations leads so suffering, algeal bloom leads to the choking out of other life. Death is also not all bad, a forest fire can destroy life, but makes room for rebirth. The balance of the two is what's necessary, the Yin and the Yang, the black and the white. It isn't about a final battle where white triumphs, it's about both keeping the other in check.

So, essentially I've said nothing, but I've had fun saying it.

Mike V. said...

@Anonymous - I'm going to cover those 2 posts as if they're the same person posting them lol I am kinda on the same boat that maybe the light is part of smokey now....(based on things John Locke has said in seasons 1 and 3 and i referred to above)....interesting about DHARMA and/or Widmore trying to separate the smoke from the light. I don't know if the light of each dead person is absorbed by smokey or not though. Damon and Carlton were pretty clear at indicating that Smoke Monster manifestations and GHOSTS are 2 different entities. And they went on describing how Isabella appeared as both in Ab Aeterno (first time Smokey, 2nd time Ghosty! lol)

But I can get on board with some things you're putting out there. And yeah....we have to think sideways is somehow tied to all of this. But I still wonder if the writers would render "THE INCIDENT" at the end of season 5 as pointless and had nothing to do with creating the sideways realm. Daniel Faraday of sideways seems to think that it caused it. We'll see! (maybe lol)

@Steve - totally agree with your first parenthetical note! But since I know they're probably "watching" somehow...I won't say it outright! lol You had fun saying your theory and I had fun reading it! It definitely was well thought out and makes a lot of sense. I'm guessing just as we're intepreting this episode and all episodes of LOST differenlty, there probably will be enough room to interpret the FINALE differently too. I think we'll be rooting for our LOSTIES to triumph over EVIL....but your theory below may prove to be correct as well...where EVE was the embodiment of Life and Death....and then that was split into Jacob (life) and MIB (death) in the end somehow. It all sounds good to me! Of course if EVE had that power of FIRE, I'd sure like to see it before the show ends by someone else lol Even if it IS the cheesiest thing I've ever seen! Maybe it's a FIRE MONSTER and moves around just like Smokey but is FIRE lol Anyway, my point is (i really don't have one) that when LOST is over...I may say "yes, Jack and crew DEFEATED evil!" people died...sacrifices were made...but it was for the greater good. And maybe you will say "everything is balanced and in check again. But no one was good or evil" I think they have been ambiguous throughout the show's run...so why not continue that in the end? But...to "tip the scales" (LOST themed pun intended) in my direction of clear-cut good guys and bad guys....the producers did say there is NO AMBIGUITY that Smokey is "THE BAD GUY"....Yes...his origin may have been sympathetic...But I could probably list many Bad Guy origin stories that are sympathetic. Just look at the crazy Spiderman movies! (not sure why they're coming to mind but they are....even 2-Face from Dark Knight) But it doesn't mean they aren't THE ANTAGONIST at the end of the story.

But hey...we'll see where we are when it's all over!

Holly said...

my head hurts.

fire vs. water 101

~Jacob was stabbed and thrown in fire, that is what killed him.

~Smokey apparently has to be stabbed and thrown in water to kill him, that's what I think. That's why he was able to get out of the water when Jack pushed him in at the sub.

the yin/yang thing again, opposites attract - go skat kat go

I digress, I just want to know where Vincent is and how come Eko hasn't been seen in flash sideways? I thought he was going to be a major role like Desmond somehow. I <3 Eko xoxo

davidsalako said...

@Holly - Mr. Eko will not be returning to the show due to an ability to reach an agreement with the actor - or his people - that played Eko.
Shame, as that was a character that had such an interesting story and possibilities. I can actually see Eko "protecting" THE LIGHT for a couple of millennia!

Holly said...

RIP Mr. Eko, you are missed.

Vincent come home, maybe he's the Candidate? He could be the #108

Mike V. said...

@Holly - interesting theory on the "Fire + Water" (pun intended on referencing the 2nd worst episode of LOST! lol) I don't know if Jacob necessarily had to be burned...I think it was the knife that killed him. because...as we all know...MIB couldn't kill Jacob directly! But you could be right.

Vincent - I think we're going to see Vincent, Rose and Bernard in the finale...just my guess.

Eko - Contract issues....there were some issues in trying to get him back...but they definitely tried. Apparently it was a pretty bitter dispute but I don't know the details. So it's looking like we will NOT be seeing Eko anymore on LOST in any timeline :-(

And once again...I just just read that David already answered this before chiming in! lol

Mike V. said...

Vincent Wallace eh?? lol

Well we can be comforted knowing that the producers confirmed Vincet will survive in the end of LOST. I think they confirmed this 3 years ago! lol It was more of a joke, but they were absolutely serious that he would!

Mike V. said...

Can you guys believe that in 10 days, LOST will be over? WOW. :-(

Holly said...

The end of Lost:
Vincent's eye closes

BOOM

LOST

10 days, what will I do with myself on Tuesday nights & Wednesday days at the office ???

Mike V. said...

NICE Ending! :-)

Yeah, I have no idea...I know that I will be enjoying my sleep time once blogging season is over. But I also know I'm going to miss all of the great discussions we have been having and staying up late, getting up early working on those crazy recaps! It's been quite a ride!

And, obviously...we all need to rewatch the entire series when it's over!

Hiding Under My Snuggie said...

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but man, we've all spent over 100 hours watching this show, and honestly - it's really NOT pulling together.

It seems like the "answers" they are giving us are slapped together and super corny. The "light"?? Come on. They put so much effort into developing the characters and story, and now aren't answering things with even remotely similar quality. I just think about all of the episodes spent on people's back stories and then *poof* they're dead...or *poof* they're no longer important. Then there's all the details! Why show Ilana all wrapped up in the bandages? Why show Locke getting out walking down the dock wet when he went into the sub through the hatch? What's the point of any of these details?

One of two things is going to happen here. Either they will utilize some "never been used before in the history of storytelling" method of pulling everything together any making us freak out with their brilliance, or they will keep giving us these lame "answers" that don't connect and expect us to make up the rest of the story. 100 hours of storytelling to leave it in the audience's lap at the end would be very disappointing.

If it's going to be the latter, I say we fight for a spin-off where Vincent explains the whole thing.

Holly said...

@snuggie
I think we need to give them the benefit of the doubt. Just as you said, they've kept us loyal viewers for this long, they must be doing something right! Don't assume that just because there's only 1 more reg. episode that it won't be enough, I think it will. Hang in there and keep watching.

I don't think the ending will be wrapped in a nice, neat package and *poof* all the answers are handed to us on a platter. This whole thing has been a mystery and will continue to be to an extent. It's meant to keep us thinking & theorizing...that's the end game.

Holly said...

Vincent would be a nice spin-off though....Masterpiece theater style with Vincent in a Heffner robe and pipe sitting in front of the fireplace....

We all need to chill and take a Lostcation when it's all over.

Don said...

Many moons ago, "Eve" stepped into the glowing cave and become Momma Smokey. This is how she was able to kill those villagers and destroy those wells so easily. The reason why Ben was able to kill Jacob after a length conversation was becuz Jacob was never a smoke monster. While "eve" and "Flocke" can take whatever silver bullets are thrown at them, a silent dagger to the heart will finally release them.
Many years later, the boys are still playing senet. But with people and under Jacob's rules

Gidget Girl said...

If Richard is next in line to be the next Jacob, then what are the candidates for?

Maybe they are next in line to be MIB/Smokey?

There can be no good without evil, yin without yang...

crashriprock said...

If I was a betting man (and Im not) Id say Fmothe's(aka Eve) real name would be something like
Anan Taweret

As for her making it so the two couldnt kill each other. Well religion cant kill science and science has'nt killed religion.
Yet...

Anonymous said...

I think I finally understand what Crash has been saying, I have a feeling he may be onto something.. maybe the island did give Claudia a second baby (didn't Locke's mother say he was conceived by immaculate conception).. ok ok she was a little bit on the crazy side - but seems like a lot of people on this show has a tendancy to be on the crazy side... Anyway maybe Jacob was immaculately conceived (by the Island), so when he came out first - Claudia thought it was her own child and gave the name Jacob.. and BIB was second so Eve thought that he was the special child but really it was Jacob all along that was produced by the Island... hence Eve saying "I can see that you are the one"..
Anyway I know this theory sounds too far fetched but I am not sure if you guys remember we are watching LOST and nothing has been what it seems from day one!!!
So Crash don't worry about all the negative posts against your theory... !!! I think I might get what your saying.. then again maybe I am going the wrong way..
Hey maybe BIB's name is Aaron..

Candidate said...

I just a had a thought. What if the sacrifice Des makes will be going into the Light and becomes the new smokey. I hope this doesn't happen but I can't shake this theory out of my head. I'm way behind in the comments trying to catch up.

crashriprock said...

Tanks Anon
Canidate you are close very very close.

davidsalako said...

The Immaculate Conception refers to the very natural conception of a child - Mary of Nazareth - by both a mother and a father without the condition of original sin.
A supernatural conception as in the one being proposed by Crash is not an Immaculate Conception.
Locke's mother - as in the show writers - got this wrong to.
Crash, you may be be on to something - personally not buying it - but please don't be offended, some of us just like to let the tale unfold as we watch it. Not very interested in spoilers or jumping the gun regarding major revelations about the show before episodes air.

Mike V. said...

@Snuggie - I can see your frustration but I think I share the writers' frustration in the fact that there is no way they can answer everything we have questioned. Some weren't even inentionally meant to be a question. We know Ilana was training to protect the candidates...maybe she was injured in training....what we did see is her miraculous healing after Jacob touched her. Locke wet at the Sub...I still say this was a continuity issue with how they filmed it. Maybe originally he swam under the sub and planted that bomb but the shot didn't look good...so they showed him go in side...maybe it was a deleted scene where he swam under it. I don't think it really matters in the end. But yeah...some of the answers do seem a bit corny....but as with THE LIGHT....I think we realize it's more than a LIGHT...they even referred to the magnetic energy in the episode...they just didn't know what to call it. We know that there is an electromagnetic pocket of energy under the island...we've learned that in various episodes....it's all there...we just have to tie it together. I think they're doing a stand-up job this season given the big task ahead of them in wrapping up this sprawling epic show. I'm sure the final hours will leave us flabbergasted in a good way....but there will always be nitpicking and complaining by certain people along the way! I'm just enjoying the ride until it's over and then maybe I'll start nitpicking :-)

@Don -definitely one of the theories that have been floating around with EVE=Smokey.... I still don't see how this translates to BURNING the villagers though. And don't forget Smokey has no human body....so then how was EVE laid to rest and then decomposed with MIB's soul-less corpse? (if she was smokey) Some argue that maybe she was Island protector AND Smoke monster...and that the duties are now split between Jacob and MIB...possible...maybe we'll find out!

@Gidget Girl - We don't know for sure that Richard is next in line to be the Protector...was just an observation I made. Some people suggested in the comments that maybe the candidates are the ones that will prove Jacob's theory correct that Man is inherently good and not corruptible. I dunno about that. But yeah...i don't know about one of them becoming the next smokey either. I've pondered it but cannot see Jack, Kate, Sawyer OR Hurley falling into this. (Yes I know Kate's name is crossed off in the cave. It wasn't in the lighthouse!) I still hope that they put an END to something... "it only ends once" I don't want the show to end with someone taking over the reigns as island protector and someone being a smoke monster and we keep going. I want FINALITY. How does this happen? Well...maybe the light DOES need to be extinguished....maybe the island needs to sink! Maybe Sideways IS the end result....time will tell. I just don't know. Can't wait to find out though!


@crash - yeah...that will be an apocalyptic day if science kills religion! lol

AUStarwars said...

I again want to say that i loved the episode and Mike's blog, but i have to say (and Mike and I have disussed this) that Florin is right:

This interview:
http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/exclusive-interview-lost-producers-damon-lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-talk-across-the-sea

is about as crybaby, insulting to fans, and arrogant things I have ever read come from a creator.

If any of you are South Park fans, you know this rap, Walkie-Talkies in ET, Greedo Shooting first, etc.

I know i cant read inflection from an article, but their answers on issues such as the (popcorn fan) Flashback to season 1 suddenly "missing" references to the 40-50 year quote is just sloppy and insulting..they should have just said "yeah continuity errors happen, deal with it" and I would be fine..instead..they just skirt the issue and come off arrogant..

I can go into it further, but clearly they are insulted by fan backlash, and they come off as immature, even when seemingly innocent questions are asked..its just painful..maybe instead of taking time to hit baseballs on Jimmy Kimmel..they can fix continuity errors..

I mean hey i heard when they reshow libbys death in the collected edition of Lost, Libby shoots first ;-)

Mike V. said...

@Anonymous - Emily Locke was LYING to Locke about the immaculate conception. It was all part of Cooper's Con. Yes the MIB = Aaron theory was out there...but I think that is definitely UNTRUE now since we have seen Claire give birth to Aaron and Claudia give birth to Jacob and MIB. (hmmm CLA starts both of those names lol ALERT THE PRESSES!!!) I really don't think we're going to get into Immaculate Conception in the last 3.5 hours of the show....but hey...maybe we're all wrong and you guys are right! I will prepare to stand corrected.

@Candidate - Interesting idea!! I would hope Des ends back up with Penny in the end...but something tells me we've already seen their happy ending in season 4....of course...if Sideways is the end result of everything...then maybe that can still happen. But then...NO ONE is potentially the smoke monster lol

@David - I feel like we've had this discussion before...I don't think it mattered that the show "got it wrong" and maybe they "intentionally got it wrong" because they were dealing with Locke's crazy and possibly uneducated mother lol

Mike V. said...

AuStarwars - We've already discussed this offline..and I've defended Darlton as best as I can...I'll let others chime in and see what they think lol

crashriprock said...

I think use of Immaculate Conception in Lockes case was foreshadowing.
As in everything in the lost world has a mirror image.

crashriprock said...

Mike
I was wandering if you knew wether Lost was originaly suppose to be a thrre season series or if you knew how long it was suppose to be.

davidsalako said...

The article did seem to make Team Darlton appear aloof and dismissive but I think it is more the fault of the author and the fact that at this point I really do think that they are exhausted and need a break from Lost!

crashriprock said...

Concerning the latest Darlton article maybe this will help.

It seems that people that are more science minded are not getting the answers they want and the people who are more faith minded are.

Thats what I got from it.

word puzzle ... uncub

lolol

davidsalako said...

What about the folks that are both science AND faith minded?

crashriprock said...

David
I think bringing them together is whats at the end of the rainbow.

Anonymous said...

Duh, I have tried to read all the comments, so I don't think this has been said yet:

Desmond can withstand electomagnetic energy that would rip a normal man to shreds. MIB cannot cross the sonic fence. What if Widmore is able to confine MIB with the sonic fences and transport him to the original cave location where Desmond can force the smoke monster in Locke's body back to where it originated and restoring the light that went out.

Will this be enough to sink the island? I don't know, but much like the Losties were transported in time after jughead was detonated, what if a big flash of light occurs and we are back on Oceanic 815 in the sideways timeline looking from Jack's point of view as the plane crosses over the island under water.

Mike, let me know where you found to be a good location to sign autographs, lol.

Weasel said...

I think in the end Desmond will have to "go into the light" to kill Smokey. Only he can do it since he can survive the electromagnetism. He won't turn into the smoke monster because he will not die so his "soul" will not be separated from his body.

As far as the interview, I was not offended, and I am a man of science, not a man of faith. I actually think they were trying to use some sarcasm in part of the interview to be funny.

Claudia was pregnant with twins then entire time and did not know it.

That is all.... for now

NAMASTE

Weasel said...

*** hehe... anonymous and I had the same thought ***

crashriprock said...

I agree that Desmond is going into the magnetic field. I just dont think he is coming out alone.

davidsalako said...

Crash, I don't think that some of the greatest scientists - Marconi, Pasteur, Mendel to name a few -will agree with you on the fact that the compatibility of science and religion is like a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
That is funny though.
I personally don't find them incompatible either. lol!

davidsalako said...

I like the Desmond theories. Makes sense.

crashriprock said...

David
Actually I was refering to the Wizard of Oz...LOL

davidsalako said...

Crash - The man behind the curtain - title of a classic "lost" episode and from the "wizard of oz" - "somewhere over the rainbow" you mean? - song from the same movie? You've lost me...
No pun intended!

Mike V. said...

@Crash - I think I had heard that they thought that 5 seasons would be good for a show like LOST. They didn't want to do much more than 100 episodes. BUT, the thing is...the first 3 seasons were structured in a way that they did not know when the show was going to end...so they were definitely milking it at some point...stalling their approach towards an END game...in the 2nd half of season 3...they started marching full steam ahead and by the end of season 3 they had unleashed their biggest twist yet...GETTING OFF THE ISLAND was not the end! At this point they had negotiated a 3 season 48 episode plan to close up the show. THIS is when they designed the end game of LOST. They had ideas on where they wanted to go with it, but they hadn't mapped out the end yet. The deal was key...or else this show could have turned into something much more different.

crashriprock said...

David
I was also thinking in terms of Scientists like.
Rupert Sheldrake , Bruce Lipton, Rob Williams (not Robin) and Jon Grinder.

which is not a bad list if you want to know what the "Force" was.

Mike V. said...

what i had read is that SEASON 5 was really their season to let the "GEEK FLAG" fly...that's when they went super scifi....i think some fans wanted more of that. It was a risky season and they sure pulled it off. Season 6 is the season with more "FAITH-based" allusions and some people may not like that as much. I think I read this stuff in the latest EW mag. I have always enjoyed ALL variations of LOST, so I'm good with it!

David I agree that Darlton are exhausted...and good point on the writer/interviewer's angles on the questions. I'm interested to see how they come off at TIMES TALK LIVE. I guess I'll find out next thursday...or we'll find out. I think you said you're going too.

Mike V. said...

Nice thoughts Weasel....whew..like Darlton...I'm exhausted too! lol 275 comments! yikes! :-)

I have to focus on my work for the rest of the day lol

crashriprock said...

Thanks Mike
That makes sence.

crashriprock said...

It was a seanson five call sheet that tipped me off. Before I started posting in here I didnt even know they existed.

Mike V. said...

Yikes...I'm really losing it...I missed the Anonymous that sounded like Weasel! lol Good thoughts to you as well. As for autographs...are you asking for me to sign...or are you saying your theory is so good that you need to find a place to sign autographs? lol

In any case, I have no idea! But I did offer Holly an autograph for sending me those EW Collectible LOST Covers! :-) lol

Holly said...

Mike V - I'm still waiting on the Sun & Kate covers...I'll ship all at once next week hopefully

davidsalako said...

Mike V. - we are attending the live interview broadcast on May 20th to. My wife doesn't know about it as it is a surprise. Hopefully - for me, not you - she doesn't read this blog and ruin the surprise!

Bill said...

My first thought when I saw the light in the cave: I hope Megatron doesn’t find out they’ve hidden the Allspark under the Island. Oh well, an appearance by Megan Fox in the finale would be ok.

My 2 cents worth on the episode. Often, light is portrayed as good, darkness as evil. Here is seems that the light represents a tremendous source of evil and power (think Ark of the Covenant) that the world is to be protected from. When MiB floated through the cave, all of this evil was manifested as a (sort of) living being, taking his life, soul, consciousness (becoming Evil Incarnate). Then Jacob’s responsibility as the Protector changed from keeping others from unleashing this evil “light” to keeping Evil Incarnate from leaving the Island. It seems like the goal will be to bottle-up Smokey back underground, which is where Desmond and the electromagnetic forces will come into play.

My (simplified) take on the Jacob/MiB disagreement is that it goes something like this. Jacob: “Humans are inherently good and need to be protected from you”. MiB: “No, they all have a small amount of evil in them and thus are inherently corrupt, so letting me loose off the Island isn’t going to make things any worse”.

A lot more people are going to be disappointed if the answers we keep getting are that certain people are special or have a gift. Why did only BiB see his ghost mom? He’s special. Why does Eloise know so much? She’s special. Why does Hurley see ghosts? He has a gift. Why don’t the rules apply to Desmond? He’s special. Sorry, just think they’re trying to save too much for the very end (sort of agreeing with AUStarwars from earlier this season).

Mike V. said...

Thanks for the update Holly! I continue to appreciate the effort you're putting in for my silly Framed Picture of 10 EW Lost Covers Dream! lol

@David - Sorry for the potential spoiled surprise! I'll keep mum about it now!

Mike V. said...

@Bill - That's kind of the way I've been seeing it too...well minus the Megatron part..but funny! LOL

Yeah...the "he's special", "she's special" stuff as answers...i would agree...are not really answers. And after all is said in done...I may agree with you guys that they are cop-outs! lol

But for just as man cheesy answers that they have provided over the years...we've gotten some AWESOME reveals too. I'm hoping the end of the show will contain some of these to make the journey worth it!

crashriprock said...

Here is a question that I dont think is a spoiler. What if Jacobs canidates are not meant to replace him as a protector but replace him as a teacher .

Anonymous said...

Weasel- it is nice to see great minds think alike, lol. I have been so busy trying to keep up with all the comments that I can't believe I, you, or someone else didn't say what we both did sooner.

Everyone- although they may take a lot of grief for it now, I think the endgame for the writers/producers is brilliant, not because I am happy with the lack of all the answers, but because not having every detail answered allows people to watch this series and enjoy it by discussing the different theories. I think this will be the true "Lost" series "loop". And let's face it several people are very into their theories, lol.

I agree that the writers/producers didn't know from day one what their overall plan was, but they are in a no win situation. If they admit they didn't know what they were doing all along, they will also be ripped by segments of the audience. Saying that they knew their plan all along and that they purposely didn't answer some of the questions is the other no win situation because it makes another segment of the audience upset.

How many people would be taking about rewatching the whole series after it ends if they answered every little detail? I guarantee not as many . . .

crashriprock said...

I think they knew what the end game was. I just think when Lost became the success it did they had to expand the field and when they did they ended up with too many players on the field.

Mike V. said...

I agree Anonymous - I think once the show is all said and done and we rewatch it with our new "i've seen it all" glasses on...things are going to start clicking this time around. Certain scenes will be looked at differently...and yes...I think some scenes won't make sense at all because of the answers provided. But that's okay with me.

I have enjoyed the ride for 6 years...I've enjoyed the characters we have followed for those 6 years and the stories told. I'm enjoying this final story and think the end will be EPIC! I think the end will be very satisfying...and even more so after we ponder it fora while!

Anonymous said...

I'm having a hard time seeing connections between "Eve" and Jacob (as far as looking for a replacement). Jacob seemed to be going through quite a lot bringing in candidates that could possibly replace him. Why not do like Fake Mother and raise a baby to replace him? Perhaps that also ties in to the fascination with Walt, Claire's pregnancy, and the children being taken.

davidsalako said...

Jacob, unlike his ISLAND mother believes in free will. He is an optimist and believes that The Candidate will make that choice freely and willingly. His mother never gave them that choice by stealing them AND she did not give Jacob much of a choice at the time of the handover of ISLAND Protector.

Mike V. said...

@Crash - I think they have admitted that they had no plan when they put together the pilot...they just kept thinking "wouldn't it be cool if we did this?" Damon and JJ Abrams wrote the pilot and it was after meeting only days or weeks before...and then months later they were putting together the most expensive PILOT in history. once it became a success...THAT is when they had to start flushing out the mythology. There is no way that they thought of ALL OF THIS STUFF from day 1 and they have admitted that. The show is organic and evolved with what worked and what didn't in each season (example: nikki/paulo on what didn't work) .....yeah...I think they had an "IDEA" of where they were going...but I don't think they had initially planned on doing an entire season of TIME TRAVEL or an entire season of SIDEWAYS....or if those concepts were even in the realm of possibilities from day 1.

I'd love to really know how things came together from seasons 1-6....I wouldn't judge them at all...just want to know what was thought from the beginning vs. what they thought would be cool and threw it in there. But they seem adamant of not telling people that....and as people mentioned above...it's a lose-lose situation for them. I really don't care...as long as i was entertained...i don't care when they thought stuff up! (but yes...I was definitely in their corner throughout the series telling people to trust them because they have a plan! lol)

crashriprock said...

Every story has a setup conflict and resolution. I dont think Disney would have shelled out all that money for the pilot unless they had at least an outline.

davidsalako said...

Disney did shell out all that money for the most expensive pilot in TV history and the executive that green-lit the project was fired.
He was later re-hired when the numbers started rolling in...

crashriprock said...

And if Damon and Carlton didnt have any kind of an outline and was shooting straight from the hip week to week. Then they must have some naked pictures of Bob Iger in bed with a goat and the goat is wearing lipstick and panty hose.

Bryan said...

@Crash - You obviously read lots of Lost spoilers... so I wish you would stop posting your "theories" and "hypothetical questions" when they're based on your spoiler knowledge which is more information than many of us want to know. Pretty please :).

Bryan said...

Has anyone seen this still from The Candidate? It looks like the smoke monster is leaking out of Locke when he hits the water.

crashriprock said...

The only thing I read was the call sheet for an episode in season 5 and it had a name and nobody anywhere got it or understood it.
The things that I have read that could be cocidered spoilers are about half the books I posted yesterday.

As for the stuff I have read about this year It was all stuff that had already happened this season by the time I read it. So it was no good to me.

Bryan said...

Apologies, I must have misunderstood your conviction in your theories as actual knowledge from spoiler sources.

Mike V. said...

Bryan that is pretty crazy! And if it's intentional it's very subtle. I rewatched that scene and that splash is less than a quarter of a second lol thanks for sharing!

crashriprock said...

Here is a book that no one anywhere has referenced that I have found . It was written by Edith Wharton and was a big deal in its time "Ethan Frome"

The details in the book are only loosly connected to the show but are interesting none the less.

Bryan said...

Yep, there was probably just some oil or something in the water when he jumped in. I doubt they would go to the trouble of making it look that way and then hide it in a 1/4 second splash that (almost) no one would ever notice.

Florin Milea said...

@crash - God created this Material World using science. I once posted that the difference in between Locke and Jack is that faith - Locke, is in a miracle which still awaits for a scientific explanation. Science - Jack, is a faith based miracle that has been explained such as lighting and thunder or spinal surgery. I am with davidsalako, both minded.

Florin Milea said...

@AUStarswars - Thank you Sir for the prop and that someone else also uses some good common sense in this one. I have to say that Mike V also has a point in how exhausting this job can be, but come on... they should’ve known this is not a game but a real job with real consequences.

Maybe the fame and the celebrity status just went up to their heads and now pressed for answers they run into corners.

I would had kept a score card with the clues, the mysteries and so on to put the thing coherently together. I would’ve done research and as davidsalako said, they had to have a good outline from the beginning and plan ahead of time.

I would’ve scouted the fan sites like lostpedia, this blog and gather intel on what fans are talking and what am I missing. Those blogs would had been a invaluable source of info, intel and the pulse of the fans.

With all that together, they could’ve planned and slap the thing together in a beautiful way. They choose to shut it from the hip and now many bullets missed the mark and hence the results.

Florin Milea said...

@davidsalako - I did said that smokey and MiB have to be two different entities. Smokey is the evil beneath he island who needed a corespondent in the world outside and MiB fitted the bill.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - Mea culpa, I forgot that Substitute ep posting. I trust you understand that is just as hard for us to keep up with reading and posting as it is for you doing all the work. So off with Esau, still on MiB, that’s cool, less confusion. Thanks for the props as well and that been said...

Where did this crazy idea of Mother been Smokey came from? What have I missed from the shows’ episode that is? I asked this before because I have not seen one scene where Mother turns into a smoke or fire for that matter. I think you already answered anonymous on that bodiless Mother I don’t remember seeing but good theory there anonymous and weasel.

The villagers been killed was one banged up dramatic job effect to justify MiB killing Mother. And why this thought that Mother knew she’s going to be killed? I haven’t seen anything leading to that conclusion.

crashriprock said...

Florin
Have you ever read
The Phenomenon of Man by
Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
he was a French Priest

Candidate said...

@ Florin. Liked your post. (Yesterday at 10 pm or so...
The make-up wardrobe call sheets actually named Titus W. Esau and I think you have solved the mystery of how Sayid was walking around after being dead for 2 hours.
I almost posted the same thing about not calling MIB Adam. It just wasn't working for me at all and hard to even read that name w/out a clunker in my reading flow or a cough. Still catching up on comments...only 24 hours behind.

crashriprock said...

Canidate
Now Im thinking we have been hood winked about the name of MiB because I saw a totally different name on a so called "call sheet " for The Incident pt2

But I still hold firm that there are at least five Literary spoilers that are in the Big list I posted yesterday blus a few more that are not shown in the show.

crashriprock said...

So that I dont give anything away. I will give the numbers on my list that I think combined will reflect the ending. If you dont want to know dont go look.
2, 16, 21, 32, 35.

Florin Milea said...

@crash - No I can't say I did.

Florin Milea said...

@Candidate - Thank you, and I hope I did solved something, finally. So Titus W(-alter) Esau. I'll be be tic. I hope Mike will review the naming of MiB along that line. However naming him Adam would be way over the top.

crashriprock said...

Florin
wasnt Jacob born second?

crashriprock said...

Florin
I meant in the Bible
Esau was born first and Jacob was born second

Mike V. said...

@Florin, i totally understand it's tough to keep up. I just wanted to clarify the "Yellow text" for you since you misunderstood! lol And you can keep calling him Esau. I'm just choosing not to unless it is revealed that it IS his name. Of course, by then, the show would be over anyway! lol

@Crash - just FYI ...if you're reading anything in BOOKS, I promise you...it's not a LOST Spoiler. There may be indications of where the show is going but there is nothing you could state that is SPOILING the show. It's all speculation. I know in your mind that "YOU KNOW" how it's going to end, but that doesn't make it a spoiler. Now, if you were reading off future call sheets and sharing information from that? SPOILER! lol So feel free to share any theories you have from the literary references!


FYI to everyone, I just posted the flashforward recap (www.flashforwardaddicts.com) You may be interested to know that the show has been cancelled. :-( So, I'm left with nothing to write about after LOST is over! I'm opening the floor for any suggestions you guys have for my next project! Or, should I just retire?? lol Anyway, as I'll be publicizing even more in the blogs...follow me on Twitter, because I'll be sure to announce if I'm going to start writing about something new in the future. www.twitter.com/lostaddictsblog (@lostaddictsblog)

That is all for now! Good night folks! (wow..313 comments and it's only Friday at midnight!)

crashriprock said...

so Whidmore being depicted as captain Nemo in Mysterious Island and giving a Aryton a weapon to destroy the pirate ship the revealing his true identity.
Thats not a spiler?

Candidate said...

Darlton confirms the fact the crew did indeed call Titus W. Esau in the season 5 DVD "The incident" commentary. I've seen some call sheets because I have several relatives that work in the script and music departments ...oh yes and the mail room too at both Disney and ABC Darlton never planned or intended to call MIB Esau in the script. They (Darlton) hadn't established "Man In Black" which was actually named by the online community and "Nemesis" or "Jacob's Nemesis." BTW I know no spoilers other than casting sheets and call sheets for wardrobe etc.

Candidate said...

I mean Darlton hadn't established a name for MIB so they gave him a temporary name Esau so that he knew what days to show up on the set and what time for make-up etc... but like I said they had no intention of calling MIB Esau in the storyline.

Ha! MY PUZZLE IS
THEROULES

Candidate said...

I finally read all of the comments for now and would like to invite everyone for a listening party tribute to LOST. There will be shout outs to This LostAddicts community. The Webcast/Broadcast will begin 5/14/10 (that's tonight) @ 10:00 PM Est and will go for at least 3 hours (probably more). This is the first part in a 2 part series and will be performed Live (Warts Clunkers and All)

stream it for free at

www.wgdr.org

press the listen live button and there are 2 choices of hi-fi highspeed or Lo-Fi dial up (Dial up...sigh...yup...that's what I got here at home)

Join in on the party, call in for requests if you like and...

NAMASTE

crashriprock said...

Canidate
I guess then I was the one that was hood winked by a fake posting.
But Esau was born first. Then Jacob.

crashriprock said...

in the bible I keep forgetting to qu;ify that

crashriprock said...

Besides MIB hsving a name , even the one I saw. Would take away from my theory that he(mib) was suppose to be the Mortal or real Jacob.

crashriprock said...

I think white Jacob was suppose to have a Mortal couter part to help him with his interactions. Thats why he gave the job to Richard. Richard filled the void of in the counter balance that dispatching his mortal brother took away.

Florin Milea said...

@crash - Yes, Jacob was born second and when he came out of the womb if my memory holds well he ws holding on his brothers’ toe almost like they were fighting from the womb.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - Oh, holly c***, pard my expression. What the heck they do that kind of thing for? Didn’t the show had a good outline?

Oh well, Mike: try Fringe. That’s all I have for right now but it seems to be a serialised show where a such project could be worth. I’ll watch for some other ones if I find in terms of suggestions.

Mike V. said...

@crash - exactly..I do not consider that a spoiler! lol Literary reference and theory.

@Candidate - I thought this was all going down NEXT weekend with the radio show. Guess since it's a 2 parter maybe it is. Anyway, I am actually going to be out tonight during those hours but I'll try to check in if I can. Looks like my phone picks up the streaming! Thanks in advance for the shout out!

@Florin - It has nothing to do with the outline unfortunately...it's the eyes that were glued to the TV. And there weren't many! I think International audiences were digging the show better than U.S. audiences. I guess it wasn't enough. They renewed "V" though. I gotta catch up on that one. Anyway, I love Fringe, I really do! But I'll be 2 seasons behind if I start blogging that one now! And that one is semi-serialized. There's always a little bit of ongoing story, but some episodes are a Mystery of the Week type of thing. But thanks for the recommendation! I think I may have to face it that this LOST thing was a once in a lifetime experience :-) But I'm not giving up hope yet!

I'm gonna be busy most of the morning folks, but I'll try to check in for a bit in the afternoon. Happy Commenting!

crashriprock said...

I like Fringe
but V is going the way of Samantha the teenage witch.

And is anyone else bothered by my Whidmore /Capt Nemo reference?

Anonymous said...

Veni, Vidi, I Posted (VVP)

Ave Mike!!!! Your blog has exploded my friend. Your excellent writing and analytical skills have really paid off. I better stop with the accolades, it sounds too much like a performance review.

We have had three pregnant ladies wash up on shore during the series. Claire, Claudia, and Rousseau. Unfortunately, all three have not been so lucky. Claudia was murdered after giving birth, Rousseau had her baby kidnapped and subsequently went loony, and Claire abandoned her baby for MIB, only to go loopy afterwards. Furthermore, Jacob's adoptive mother - Mother Nature - was a little nuts herself – that’s why MIB fancies Claire so much. Poor Alex, she was a candidate, but Widmore broke the rules and killed her. Given this, I guess there is a decent chance that Aaron, Walt, and sideways Alex will somehow show up on the island as a Padiwan.

I’m sure Smokey had some pleasant interactions with Rousseau. Once Danielle was killed, Smokey latched on to Claire – I believe this all happened in the same episode.


When they were showing us the River Styx and the cave of light, was anyone expecting Desmond to come rowing out of it yelling for Penny?????

Smokey now reminds me of the containment unit in Ghostbusters as well as Norman Bates.

Wifi on airplanes is the greatest invention since the iPod.

Candidate said...

The outline of Lost and the pilot.
Damon and JJ have confirmed in commentarys that they had no outline for Lost in the beginning. They individually had seperate storys written to use for something one day but wanted to see if the "Pilot" of lost was going to be picked up for more episodes. basically the creators pitched the show as "an airplane crash show." The exec that gave the go ahead for the Pilot is the guy that says "Previously On Lost." This person was fired (I believe ) before the Pilot was broadcasted for green lighting such a major budget. When the exec was fired JJ and Damon were concerned the show would be cancelled and didn't start this epic story until they had secured at least one full season.

On the broadcast tonight yeah a two parter. One tonight and one next Friday Both performed live. There will be edited rebroadcasts
at other times but not sure when those repeats will air. Great soundtrack while reading our comments.

Flashfoward cancelled. That's too bad and a sign of change of direction in network programming.
The ratings were really low and ABC tried to put out another quality and expensive series but America just didn't tune in. I think we will start seeing more comedy and less (much less) mystery on networks such as Ugly Betty and so on. I seriously doubt we will ever see a series as great as Lost and the networks (try as they may) realize that they can't recreate the kind of success that lost has with another show in the same genres. V is o.k. but not worth recapping imho. Caprica was a big dissapointment but promises a new writing direction and staff for season 2

crashriprock said...

Then Damon must have more than one picture of Bob Iger in bed with a goat.
lol

davidsalako said...

I watched every episode of "Flash Forward" but just felt that it was too self conscious and riding on the coat tails of "Lost". I am not surprised it has been cancelled in the same season that "Lost" exits.
"V" has gotten better but it really isn't that worth writing or blogging about.
"Fringe" is interesting, the best episodes are the ones that advance the mythology of the show. The "freak of the week" episodes are hit and miss.

crashriprock said...

Flashfoward is based on a novel by Robert Sawyer (although most of the charaters are different)
Fringe started off alot like x files but is using the "freak of the week" as you put it to draw out an actual plot.
But to me V is as corny as Oprahs crap the day after the fourth of July

MJ said...

Doh ! Here;s the Pellegrino article
http://www.tvguide.com/news/lost-mark-pellegrino-1018362.aspx

Mike V. said...

Hey guys, thought I would share this. I was asked at the be beginning of the season to pick a topic related to LOST and write a few sentences about it. All part of an initiative for LOST Bloggers and Even some people involved with the show to come up with 815 Sentences about LOST by the show's end. Pretty cool idea. Anyway, mine finally posted today and wanted to share it with you. It is about how I always have felt season 3 was very underrated. Enjoy!


815 Sentences about LOST

Mike V. said...

@VVP - Wow...thanks for the props on the writing! I'll take any performance review that praises me that much :-) lol Good call on the 3 pregnant ladies who came to the island and their bad luck! lol Funny on Desmond coming out of the River Styx! Good times! I can't wait until wifi on airplanes is more mainstream...I know Southwest has 2 more years or something before the full fleet has it. But I fly so much it will come in handy! I'll definitely need my iPad by then! lol

@Candidate - Agreed that on your statements Candidate. I tried to bring this up as well lol Actually...I think the executive at ABC "ASKED" for an airplane crash show...and Jeffrey Lieber came up with a first draft and it wasn't working. So they brought JJ Abrams in...and then Damon came in after that and it was just MAGIC lol They were thinking it was going to be a pain in the butt, but then they actually started coming up with some great ideas. It's all in last week's EW article...or on the special features of the Season 1 DVD/Blu-ray...very interesting stuff! Keep me posted on the repeats but I'll still try to check it out!

You could be right on the more comedy route...but then again...LOST introduced the era of serialized TV back to mainstream...before that FRIENDS was still dominating the charts and Reality TV. So it was a breath of fresh air. So, maybe one day...another LOST will come to us! I definitely have no interest in recapping V. We'll see if anything catches my eye. Maybe the new Boardwalk Empire that will be premiering on HBO (scorcese produced) Doubtful, but I'll definitely be watching!

@David - Agreed on all comments...and Fringe...yes...mythology ones are the best ones. There's just no other LOST! :-(

@MJ - Thanks I'll check it out!

crashriprock said...

mike
you might enjoy this
When I saw your Bio Bit ant the bottom of 815 I saw that you do IT by day.
That made me think of Madeleine L'Engle', book A wrinkle in Time in which one of the sinister characters is called IT.
Here is the wiki link to the book you might find that reference funny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Wrinkle_in_Time

Mike V. said...

Nice Crash lol The description of IT sounds a lot like my day job too! :-)

crashriprock said...

They say good writers copy great writers steal. About a third of the writers on the list I posted yesterday were greatly influenced by The Phenomenon of Man by
Pierre Teilhard de Chardin plus a few ohters that may also be familiar The Dr Who series Ray Bradbury Arthur C Clarke and Flannery Oconnor

Chardin coined the phrase "The Omega Point" and it is the point in which religion and science converge.

Anonymous said...

Gnni & Lauren - you are not alone in believeing that Claudia merely did not know she was pregnant with twins, but that both those babies were in fact hers.

Most of us know that there was no clear way to ever know if there were multiples in the womb back then.

As for why one child can see their dead mom, and one lies ? Who knows! But anyone who has siblings will tell you that they are all different from eachother. Even twins. And yes - my family has many sets of twins in it.

I think the point was that they were brothers, but very opposite in temperment and desires and what they would do to get what they wanted.

crashriprock said...

Wow I didnt know Lost was so literal and I guess mythology and allgory is just something the wirters left behind at there previous jobs. So here is an interesting tibit for Claudi's name.

Ludus Duodecim Scriptorum

"The Game of 12 Lines"
with leather board
and sets of 30 markers, 15 of ebony and 15 of ivory.
Tabula, a generic name for the board on which it was played.
This pastime was quite popular and a favored
game by Emporor Claudius.
About 50 AD, Claudius wrote a history of the game of Tabula
which, unfortunately, has not survived. His imperial
carriage was equipped with an alveus, a Tabula playing board, so that he could play while travelling

crashriprock said...

So I guess Tabula has nothing to do with this show because I made the mistake of suggesting that on an Island where crazy mythical things happen everyday. That it was funny how Claudia didnt know she was pregnant with twins and only had one hame,(no forshadowing there) because in this real world of cource she wouldnt.

MJ said...

ChicagoKilla - so Evangeline Lily is a nut ball ? LOL That was comical.

And hey MikeV - watched the Letterman interview with her - wasn't THAT bad. But I'm a Letterman fan and loved seeing him get nailed for being a non-fan of the show.

MikeV - I'm very happy that the blog has become so successful. But I think I miss the days where there were only 100 comments for the week, if ya know what I mean. Can't believe there are so many now.

I don't remember Locke telling Eko that he saw a white light when he saw smokey. Thinking I probably assumed that it was those little flashes that we see when they show smokey. Thought I posted something about that ? THat I read another blog that a co-worker sent me and they state that 'the Man In Black absorbed all the light of the Island' . I don't think I thought of it that way - but it could explain the little flashes of light we see in the smoke.

No wonder there ar so many comments - enough with the baby thing ! LOL You have all made your thoughts clear - so let's all agree to disagree and let it go now. Though I love snafu11's comment about Sigourney !

And thanks to whomever pointed out that it's not fair for some to be making arguments based on what spoilers they have read, then get annoyed when those of us who are staying spoiler-free can't see or understand their logic.

crashriprock said...

Well canidate made it very clear yesterday that the spoiler I had was not a spoiler(aka call Sheet)
My "arguments" come from literature.
Jack = Dante in "The Devine Comedy"
Sawyer = Yossarian "Catch 22"
Locke = Don Quixote
Kate = Kate "Taming of the Shrew"
Elloise = Lady Mcbeth
Ben = Charlie "Flowers for Algetnon"
Whidmore = Nemo "Mysterious Island"

Desmond = Odysseus from "Odyssey"
PenNy = Odysseus wife Penelope who had to wait 10 years for his return.
and it coes on and on.

But I guess Im wrong about this because LOST is set in reality.
So hopefully for those who dont get the underlying Allegory,
Darlton will have Bill Nye the Science guy come out in the end and explain things.

Mike V. said...

@MJ - Yeah I think it was just awkwardly painful for me...That letterman interview! lol I'm a fan of Letterman too. I've seen so many Evangeline interviews though, she just isn't the best interviewee but I keep coming back for more! lol

Yeah...I know what you mean about the 100 comments era....even at the end of season 3 when things first started to pick up and we had like "50" comments...it was still a good time. Now is great too....it's just so hard to keep up! It was inevitable though, I guess...once the blog caught steam it just snowballed and got bigger every season! I can't complain about people checking it out and wanting to share their thoughts! But yeah, those days that I post it when I post a comment and hit refresh and there are 10 more to respond to? Not the easiest days for me! But who am I kidding? I love it!!

As for the WHITE LIGHT...i know you don't rewatch them but check back to Eko's swan song episode in season 3 episode 5 "THE COST OF LIVING" I just double checked my blog post. Locke told Eko that he saw a white light....and Eko retorted with "that is NOT what I saw!" And of course, when Eko saw the monster is when we saw the white flashes and the memories being downloaded to smokey. Yeah...we saw a white flashing light when Kate and Juliet got cornered by smokey too....but they were pretty freaked out. Remember Locke said another time "I looked into the eye of this island, and what I saw was BEAUTIFUL" Just seems like Locke had a totally different experience when coming into contact with Smokey...and of course...it all would have been part of Smokey's long con.

Totally agree about the baby thing...I just gave up commenting on it! lol

As for the spoiler thing...I think Crash was using the word "spoiler" kind of broadly as he was saying that from reading certain books he has come up with a conclusion of how LOST ends...and he thinks it might spoil people. I really don't consider that a spoiler! lol

crashriprock said...

The only reason I keep harping on the "Baby thing" is because it is just about the only original storline that they have written and I think it is briliant.GENIUS even! One of the best things I have ever seen on TV and nobody gets it. I dont know what to say.

davidsalako said...

Anyone else wonder about Jacob's statement to MIB "she never asks about you" being a lie?
Seems Jacob had learned to lie 30 years later.
I say this because when he gets back to the cave and his mother asks "what did he say to you Jacob?", it seems that she had asked him that kind of thing before.

Mike V. said...

I like how TV Guide's Matt Roush summed up this week's ep of LOST. He's never really about the Mythology but he was able to put it all in perspective..and some quotes from Supernatural's Executive Producer are pretty cool too. Essentially "ENDING A SHOW SUCKS" for writers and fans are always gonna complain. How true it is. This is why I'm sympathetic towards what Damon and Carlton are trying to pull off.

Matt Roush's Week in Review

@Crash - I really don't know what to say about the baby thing anymore. But you've made your point and we'll see if it happens! And if it does, there could be a lot of people coming back here to not give you credit as much as yell at you for SPOILING! :-) lol j/k

@David - interesting thoughts..no I hadn't thought about it! lol

crashriprock said...

They have already explained it.
Why would they have to do it again?

Anonymous said...

i think his name might be Esau...picked it up in Bad Twin...many references there that are becoming more apparent. who is the bad twin...?

crashriprock said...

I give up.
Hopefully there will be lots of explosins and violence in the end so you guys will at least have some entertainment because they have already given you the answers.

His name isnt Esau
he is nameless because white Jacobs name should have been named Samuel
and if you didnt get that when you saw it all the answers in the world wont help.

crashriprock said...

one last thing
SAMUEL
in hebrew means "God has heard"

Mike V. said...

@crash - they have already stated that they will elaborate further on this episode in the final hours. Maybe nothing about ISLAND BABIES or anything like that.

And you know what? I'm getting a little tired of your subtle hints that everyone else here is STUPID, enjoys LOST for what it has on the surface and just like to see things blow up! I happen to like EXPLOSIONS! And I consider myself an intelligent person. No, I am not versed to the degree where I can quote page 66 of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea...but I don't know if anyone that writes for LOST is that versed either! They take themes from certain books and say that it may have inspired what they wrote in LOST. Damon and Carlton have already said that reading these books won't SOLVE LOST for you.

You can theorize however you like, you can quote whatever you want, you can believe whatever you want...but take it easy on the insults.

The fact is..the episode was left ambiguous and the SHOW will be left ambiguous for people to interpret it different ways. So you can have your Island baby and I don't have to have mine! :-)

Hope you don't take offense to this, but I was getting a little annoyed...so maybe I don't mind if you get a LITTLE offended :-)

MJ said...

So - know there aren't alot of Supernatural viewers here - but they had their season finale last night and part of it soooo made me think of Lost (besides the fact that Mark Pelligrino is on it).

Their show runner Eric Kripe is leaving and he wrote this last ep. This show has a 'prophet' for the angels. Just go with it LOL too long to explain, and this prophet has written stories of the Winchester's adventures as books in the past, but he is sorta narrating this ep. Towards the end he is closing out the writing of his stories and basicly says 'How do you write an ending? And moron can write the beginning of a story, but the ending is hard. And that fans want every single hole plugged and every question answered - and thats impossible.'

That's not word for word, but close. And for Supernatural fans it was Kripke saying good bye to us, and letting himself off the hook when not everyone was thrilled with the season ender (and a big story arc end) Have tried to find the exact text on line today but have not had any success.

But this SOOOOO applies to the show we all love here. And I'm going on record now as saying that I'll be letting Darlton off that same hook, cause I've loved the ride.

Just wanted to share.

have a great weekend everyone.

Mike V. said...

@MJ - I don't watch Supernatural but I actually just made a reference to this a few posts up with a link to Matt Roush's TV Week in Review. I totally agree with what he has to say! I'll post the quote here:

“Endings are hard. … Endings are impossible. You try to tie up every loose end. You never can. The fans are always gonna bitch. There’s always going to be holes. And since it’s the ending, it’s all supposed to add up to something. I’m telling you, they’re a raging pain in the ass.”


Yeah I thought he was referring to LOST ending too...but I guess he wasn't lol But I agree it applies, and Matt Roush was applying it too!

You have a great wknd too!

Anonymous said...

Right on Mike. For about the last 100 comments, I just keep thinking, I wish blogger had a menu of sorts for comments. It is hard to keep up with all the comments, especially when so many are focused on trying to hit us over the head again and again with the "Miracle Island Secret Twin From Inaccurate Theory" (MISFIT) posts, at least that is what I have termed these non-stop posts.

Yes Crash, we all get your theory, but we don't have to agree with it, like it, etc. and I am one who is tired of hearing about it. Nothing you can say will convince us at this point, so let it go and see how it plays out. If you are right, then kudos to you, but if you are wrong, then your constant posts on the same subject without any real new information is rude and annoying to the vast majority of people, especially those of us that have been coming here for years.

Mike V. said...

@Anonymous, I appreciate the support but I have said my piece and won't continue to gang up on anyone on the blog. I appreciate everyone wanting to come here and share their theories. We have had some great discussion over the years. But I do like the acronym! :-)

The only feature that MIGHT be helpful to you on the comments is to "COLLAPSE" Comments at the top...and then you can click on one after the other at a time. But yeah....this comments section needs a major OVERHAUL! I deal with it, but there has to be a better way to lay it out!

Anyway, thanks for being a dedicated READER all of these years!

squash said...

Mike, good stuff. I also enjoyed this episode. A few thoughts:

1) I have moved past the frustration of the perpetual questions that arise, even as we approach the last 2 episode. I think it was mentioned somewhere in there, but if you aren't of the type that wants to think and discuss the possibilities, then maybe stick with FlashForward (what's that? canceled? okay, then Glee). I don't expect answers for all of the questions. If they attempted such, we would no doubt be disappointed. I like where it is heading and hope to see it resolve to one bigger question, perhaps in the form of self-reflection (or some crap like that). We still don't know many questions from Twin Peaks and there is little resentment to Mr. Lynch for what the hell happened there.

2) An interesting comment I heard: Maybe the island is a representation of the brain network, which could entail the network that would include body, mind & spirit. With this episode in mind, perhaps our inner-light & dark cannot extinguish each other, but can be transcended through a balance found in something greater (eg beautiful light/life source).

3) Or it's just a good story about some characters and a crazy island. That works for me.

Anonymous said...

I understand where you are coming from Mike, you have been very accepting of all types over the years, even back in whatever season someone was griping about your lol's, lol.

I still think it is too bad that you never got ads up and going on your site. The people I know who read your blog and I all agree that it is too bad that you don't get paid by hit to this fantastic blog.

I know you have the link to a site where you do get paid, but I don't know what your conversion rate from the Lost site to that one is.

Thanks for the props on the acronym and various posts over the years. I still wonder if the person who told me about your blog was related to you or something, lol.

I have no idea how he knew about it, but when he recommended it, you were just getting started and very few hits, comments, etc.

Fringe is the only show that I can think of worthy of discussion and your recaps, but it is too serialized as you and others put it.

I think Flashforward was a good show, but I think the mistake they made with it was defining what happened right away (blackout, date, etc.) and creating too much mystery/confusion about who is behind it, etc. before the audience was invested in the characters. Lost is a great show because of the science/mystery and character development. I hope they wrap up Flashforward somewhat before it goes off the air, but I doubt it.

I always thought it was too bad the Lost team didn't trademark or copywrite the word Flashforward, but I guess it doesn't matter now. It wasn't like they needed more money anyway.

I have also wondered if one or more of your readers/posters over the years might have been employed by the Lost team to keep track of the fan viewpoint and help steer it slightly in the wrong and right directions, lol.

Mike V. said...

@Squash - Thanks!

Ouch, was that a slam on FlashForward for not being thought-inducing? Eh, who am I kidding? LOL I liked the show and I blogged it (and will continue to do so for 2 more episodes)....but yeah, I couldn't find much to theorize on! lol Totally agree that if they attempted to answer everything we'd be utterly disappointed. I never watched Twin Peaks, but I definitely have heard LOST compared to it several times. All I want to see is what happens to all of our characters at this point. I want some nice redemption scenes...I want a Jack and Christian scene....I want a reunion of Season 1 LOSTIES....I want resolution to Jack/Kate/Sawyer triangle (yeah a lot of people just threw up in their mouths reading that)....I want Hurley to SURVIVE! I want Ben to get his vengeance on Charles Widmore (why?? Maybe Charles deserves the revenge on Ben ....but I just like Ben! lol) I want Clarie to get back to Aaron somehow....I want Desmond to unite with Penny. Yeah, sounds like I want a happy ending. I don't necessarily want that lol I think it will be BITTERSWEET, HAPPY, SAD you name it. And if they all die to make way for sideways...of course it's gonna be sad! lol But the overarching Mythology is just ICING on the cake at this point. Yeah, I have lots of questions that weren't even in the 23 I summarized it to...but they have done their best at answering them and I think we'll definitely get a few more. (I'm gonna guess they'll revolve around Electro-Magnetism and the reason this whole Sideways world exists lol) We have 3.5 hours left to see what ride they're going to take us on.

Interesting though on the brain network! Could be.... I'd be fine with a crazy island full of people with good character stories too lol Of course, this is just my feeling for the moment. Obviously, I love all of the mythology stuff and the geeky stuff that makes LOST, "LOST" too! I just think the show is going to end on an EPIC note and it's going to be AWESOME! Apparently, the people who previewed next Tuesday's episode at the LOST Concert last night were quite pleased...so I'm getting psyched!

Anyway, I just rambled on about nothing for awhile. lol Thanks for writing in!

Mike V. said...

NICE Anonymous! I can't believe you remember the "LOL-GATE"! That's hysterical. I am an LOL-addict...self-admitted...I have no idea how to stop! I feel like if I don't put them in there, people will take my comments the wrong way. I keep them out of the main post though as I'm sure people have noticed. There is a time for professionalism!

Yeah, I never put Google Ads on here, but I don't know if I would have gotten paid too much by that. I was trying to let Cafe Press know that I'd advertise for them, and even though they initially reached out to me, they never called me back! lol But, I do put that Gather.com link at the bottom of every post and encourage people to click on it. I DO get paid for that. It's not much, but it's something! And with that, Idol, FlashForward and other stuff I post on gather, it's giving me a little bonus each month for something I was doing for free before...so that's nice! As for the conversion rate, it's not very good...most of my hits come from google searches...and the Gather article pops up.

I guess you'd have to let me know who told you about the blog for me to let you know if they were related or a friend or whatever lol If you've known about the blog for THAT long, chances are I may know the person who referred you or the person who referred the person who referred you! LOL

I think the problem with Fringe is that it is NOT Serialized enough! There are too many self-contained episodes that don't really build on the mythology! But I think that's what you meant. I agree though..Fringe seems to be the best one at the moment. But I feel like I've already let that ship sail!

Good point on FlashForward...I always thought that the concept was awesome, but the execution was a bit flawed. I kept thinking they could improve it. But the ratings had already dropped and they weren't coming back! I'm doubting FF is going to wrap up. The good news is they'll wrap up the April 29th thing next week. So that's a plus lol

I too, have wondered if anyone employed by the LOST crew have checked out the blog. It definitely hasn't been hard to find if you google "LOST BLOG"....so I would think they've heard of it...but maybe not! I like to think so though. That would be funny it we helped steer it in the WRONG direction though! lol

Thanks for sharing your thoughts once again! I love "reminiscing" themed commentary!

Glenn R. said...

Lost Actors gather on the red carpet (but sadly, I didn't see Mr. Eko anywhere :-(

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2010/05/14/natpkg.lost.red.carpet.cnn?hpt=C2

(wow, Mike -- 358 and counting! you da man!)

Glenn R. said...

Well, once again the link doesn't work. Try cutting and pasting:


http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2010/05/14/natpkg.lost.red.carpet.cnn?hpt=C2

Mike V. said...

I'm not done reading this but AUStarWars just sent this link to me.

Lost Analysis

Don't know the name of the site, but apparently the guy used to do a lot of X-Files recapping back in the day. Some good thoughts!

Mike V. said...

Great stuff Glenn! Thanks for the link!

AUStarwars said...

Ive been reading Entil for years, he reviews most of the "dork" shows that we all love, so I suggest you check him out! Mike, thanks for the props!

Mike V. said...

I found this part quite interesting from the article. probably a better explanation than my "desmond blew the hatch and froze the donkey wheel" theory lol

"It’s clear that letting Adam get to the Source would be a bad thing. The effect of his relationship to the Source has already been seen. The Source as seen by the original donkey wheel tunnel was still warm and vibrant; it is now frozen and cold. The Source no longer enervates the spring in the Temple. "

Mike V. said...

makes sense:

"Ultimately, the Source is at the heart of the resolution of the story. It seems obvious that Adam is trying to get back to the Source without anyone to stop him. It also seems obvious that Widmore, whether aware of the nature of the Source or not, is trying to find it and get there first. And it’s equally obvious that Desmond’s unique nature is meant to shield him from the kind of effect that the Source had on Adam, and that this is key to ending the current crisis. "

davidsalako said...

I really dig the observation that the warm, glowing, golden Source/Light is now cold and frozen as is the DW chamber in its current state.
Makes perfect sense.
I always wondered why digging deep into the earth - as in the tunnel beneath the Dharma orchid station - would be getting colder rather than hotter - as in heading towards the earths core!
Now we may know why, and why polar bears were bred and trained for experiments by those adventurous and clever Dharma folk.
Also seems like Jacob may have gotten himself a lot of education in the last 2000 years as he was very philosophical and erudite speaking to Ricardus Alpert and reading Flannery o'connor novels!
I still like Mike V.s suggestion that Jacob may be ALL of the Hansos...

Anonymous said...

I've read 250+ comments and I don't think this was brought up, but did you guys hear that they were showing 3 alternate endings on Jimmy Kimmel? these must be joke endings right? such as it being a dream ect there's no way it could be a "pick your own ending" type thing?

Anonymous said...

Veni, Vidi, I Posted 2 (VVP2)

Still enjoying wifi at 36,000 ft. I’ve been on this plane for over ten hours, and I have three more hours to go.

In the past twenty years I have only watched four television productions, The Sopranos, Lost, X files, and Spongebob , so I am by no means an expert about TV. Nevertheless, I suspect that many Lost fans suffer from PTXFS – Post Traumatic X File Syndrome. Those of us who were big X File fans all remember how utterly pathetic and brutally that show ended. I think many fans dreadfully fear Lost will suffer a similar fate.

As you have said, Mike, you can’t win in a finale. Its almost better to have a show cancelled – remember the original Star Trek, it only lasted three seasons.

BTW – It was sure neat to see that crazy Russian from the Sopranos show up on Lost.

Mike V. said...

I'm out right now but wanted to share the link to the latest sports guy (espn bill simmons) podcast where he talks to Carlton Cuse for an hour! Only listened to 20 minutes so far but it's great!! Anyone that is convinced that the answer lies in philosophers and novels referenced in the show, please listen to this podcast. It's like they read my comments here and put it on a podcast! Lol

plus it's just an engaging conversation!! Lol
http://tinyurl.com/24bsvem

enjoy!

Btw official podcast should be on iTunes tonight too!!

Florin Milea said...

@anonymous - Widmore didn’t kill Alex and we don’t know exactly if he gave a such order, we have no evidence to support that. He made it clear to Ben in the conversation in his bedroom in the ep after Ben moved the island and visited Widmore telling him that he - Ben, will kill Penny. Now that the kind of evidence I would like to see about Alex been killed by Widmore. Indeed, Widmore is not your savory character by any shot, but it was a coward Ben who allowed it to happen by putting himself above his adoptive daughter’s life - the killing of Alex, a character I liked a lot and truth be told, Ben felt very remorse after it happened.

It could be true that Keamy could’ve done it even if Ben would had surrendered, we don’t know since it didn’t happened. But Widmore made it clear that he didn’t and we don’t even know if Keamy would’ve killed all people on the island. He had ample opportunities to do so, yet he was chasing after the main target - Ben. Did Keamy decided and we don’t know that he’ll kill all after he captures Ben? Very possible.

I think that the idea that Keamy was there to kill everybody was Ben’s way to scare everybody around him like a protection shield. The writers and the producers added the killing thing and the explosion of the freighter for dramatic effect and to give a continuity line to the show.

Florin Milea said...

@candidate - I also know for two sources of authority, one whom still works for Disney-ABC that the show was pitched to ABC by Damon and Carlton minus JJ Abrams. ‘The Guy’ green-lit the project and than a brou-ha-ha ensued. I wasn’t privy to the detail you gave however. What I know from those two - a guy and a gal, is that the network went into a frenzy that the show will be a sort of ‘Castaway’ or a ‘Giligan Island’. The network decided that they can’t backtrack on it after so much money were put in so much to anyone's surprise, JJ included, brought JJ to ‘rescue the situation’. JJ did voluntarily closed ‘Alias’ for falling ratings and creative fatigue, had a good run with ‘Felicity’, but his newest then ‘6 degree’ or something like that, series that tanked and ABC cancelled on him. Now you understand the surprise. That’s when the idea of ‘Smokey’ and ‘the island is not done with you’ came in from JJ. Only after that they started to actually plan for the future of the show and I thought that they will do well.

So far I still have to give it High Marks, but the ending hasn’t been planned well to well.

JJ then pitched the ‘Fringe’ show, but ABC again surprisingly passed on and JJ took it to Fox.

Florin Milea said...

@MJ - Kripke is living Supernatural? Why me ;-) getting bad news. I am kidding, but I liked the seson finale. The portraying of angels is a bit off, but is a pure sci-fi show with nothing that can be anchored is today’s science. I know a radio show which only last night dealt with a theme like Supernatural. I can share it with you but you’ll have to subscribe to the podcast.

That will explain some of the potential inspirational sources of Lost.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - I have to disagree with the fact that writing the end is hard. Emotionally it is hard indeed. Technically not so. When you read through so many blogs, those guys would had made their lifes so much easier writing an end. So much inspiration out there. When ones finds inspiration and ‘maps the network well, apps always works’. Yeah, I’ve been an IT myself ;-)

Florin Milea said...

@anonymous - An afterthought occured to me. What if it wasn't Widmore who planned the purge including Alex?

I remembered that until Alex shouted - 'I'm his daughter' Keamy dind't know who she is.

So what if Smokey impersonated Widmore and hired Keamy through Abaddon and orchestrated the whole thing?

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - What I would've wanted from the show is to touch even if just a bit of logical explanation on why did the smoke alarm went off prompting Jack to come out of his office and see the ghost of Christian for one example of many we've been going back and forth. Or what was it with the spirit of Wayne taking over the body of a sick Sawyer in the hatch and asking Kate why did she killed him. Who made that possible?

I think in the line of the ep analysis through the link provided, that was her arch of redemption beside raising Aaron.

Those little clues as we thought of them are such (IT Lingo here) - annoying apps, mapped by the network, yet each and every time one clicks the icons, nothing happens.

I am agreeable that some mysteries can be left unexplained, such as the source and staff, but the clues they planted and we didn't asked for it btw, I would've loved to see them answered. Many times we the bloggers provide more answers than those who write and produces the show. Maybe they should pay us for it ;-)

Considering how well the show has been made, I would still watch it later again, even if knowing the answers. That's my humble opinion, that if they had answered those questions, the satisfaction of the fans would have been greater based on the quality.

EJ said...

Jeff Jensen posted a new article a little while ago. It has spoiler alerts, so I didn't read it completely -- not sure if they are real or not. Here's the link, to use as you will.... :-)

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20369436,00.html

Listening to WGDR now.... thanks for mentioning it! Hey -- the shout out to this blog just happpened!

Mike -- will you be making any more TV appearances after the series finale? That's how I found out about this blog!

EJ said...

Link didn't scroll in previous post -- here's the whole thing, in two pieces. Sorry, I don't know how to do hyperlinks like many of you have done.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460
_20369436,00.html

Anonymous said...

@ squash said... 4:21 PM, May 14, 2010:
I have felt the power on the Island is equally divided between three entities. These entities are the allegorical representation of the three parts of the mind.I call it the Id, Ego, Superego Theory.
We have all seen the scale balancing the white rock and the black rock in The MIB’s Cave. We have also seen a painting of this same scale with the two rocks in Sideways Widmore’s office. We only have focused on the white rock and the black rock. The scale itself also is part of the balancing process.
The entities on the Island are allegorical representations of Id (black=Flocke=body), Ego (white=Jacob=spirit), and Superego (the scale=Mysterious Jungle Boy reminding Flocke about “The Rules”= conscience mind).
The id is an important part of our personality because it allows us to get our basic needs met. Freud believed that the id is based on our pleasure principle. In other words, the id wants whatever feels good at the time, with no consideration for the reality of the situation. When a child is hungry, the id wants food, and therefore the child cries. The id doesn't care about reality, about the needs of anyone else, only its own satisfaction. When the id wants something, nothing else is important.

The ego is based on the reality principle. The ego understands that other people have needs and desires and that sometimes being impulsive or selfish can hurt us in the long run. It is the ego's job to meet the needs of the id, while taking into consideration the reality of the situation.

The Superego is the moral part of us and develops due to the moral and ethical restraints placed on us by our caregivers. Many equate the superego with the conscience as it dictates our belief of right and wrong.
LOST Fan

gnni4 said...

Here is my long-winded opinion on their interview.

Darlton are condescending and sardonic. Whether or not they are laughing at me or looking down on me or care if I get all the answers - I don't much care. They created a television show/I viewed it, loved it and begged for more! I was always aware that they were 'selling' me something with Lost.

IMHO, They’ve been caught in a lie, and are now telling bigger lies to try to defend their lie, convince us that they were not lying, then got mad because they know that we know that they know that we know that they were lying, then they called us names. (OK, they didn’t call us names, but I almost expected it by the end of the interview…like having a 4 year old or an ex-husband again!) It felt very high school to me.

They may have had an outline, an idea of where they were going with it all, but I believe that for the first few seasons they were writing as they went and creating a GREAT story. I have loved it for years. I don’t know why they feel embarrassed by that. The work stands on its own and is magnificent; I don’t really understand why they are so defensive.
Continued:

gnni4 said...

They needed an end date, got the date and moved towards it. The story has evolved and progressed, some thought branches continued and some were dropped. I read once that they originally planned for the Jack character to be killed off after the pilot, but MF was so popular so they rethought that.

I find it sad that they feel a NEED to be seen as not having created this as it went along. I believe that they had it all planned out exactly as I believe Van Gogh knew EXACTLY what Starry Night was going to look like before he put brush to canvas!


I see Lost as a work of art that has taken 6 years of constant tweaking...and in less than 2 weeks they are going to hang it on the wall and say, "There, it's done!" If you showed up at that point in time and started watching the show from the pilot, you could be told that they always knew exactly where they were going with it from the beginning. But we have been watching them work on this masterpiece from early in the creation, peaking in on the progress each week as they set their brush down. We know that they scrapped some paint off, painted over some stuff and changed some things in the painting during the process. We know that they are not being completely truthful about always having planned this whole thing out exactly.

Like John Locke, they just wish we had believed them!

gnni4 said...

I have a feeling that Darlton will leave enough mystery and questions unanswered for us to theorize and postulate for quite some time after it is all over. They are television guys after all, and marketing requires the forethought to prepare for reruns and future audiences who will inevitably want to try to solve some of the island mysteries as well.

gnni4 said...

@Candidate
I only caught the last hour + of your show, but enjoyed listening while I caught up on all the comments last night and today.

@MJ, thank you for another couple great links (you always have good ones!)

@Mike, Thank you for sharing your thoughts on lost, articulating them so well and for moderating the site and making us all feel welome. I had another post of some thoughts, but then read the Darlton interview and cleared that off. I was happy to see you wrote somethig about Flocke wanting to get back to the light. I agree that is the 'home' that he is wanting to return to. I'd love it if you would expound on that line of thinkig.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - It’s official, I am an obsessed addict of Lost and this blog considering the night shift I am putting in here.

First, have you considered “The Legend Of The Seeker” for your next blog?

Second, compile my theory posts and when you’ll watch the series again, check me out on my evidence. It should be fun at lest.

Third, do you remember how did the prod/writers explained the extra Oceanic 6 since all the bodies were accounted for in the crash set up? Did they actually explained it cause I don’t recall that.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - Anonymous’ stubborn idea that Widmore is responsible for the assassination of Alex got me thinking... really thinking... late at night... what the heck is wrong with me? Don’t I have a life anymore?

You and I have been bouncing around a few ideas especially Flichard. Although I am not yet ready to throw it away completely, I believe it is still possible that Richard has been manipulated by Smokey, yet something else came to my attention.

Who planted the idea in John Locke’s head to go to the Australian Walkabout like right about from the therapy room in a wheel chair after been thrown off the window and touched by Jacob? Answer - Abadon
Who hired the freighter crew? Answer - Abadon.
Who was helping Locke to get everybody back to the island? You guessed again - Abadon.
This is my body of evidence, I didn’t told you to call me Grimson or Gibbs or Horatio or Mac for nothing.

From the conversation Ben-Widmore in his penthouse we know the rules prevent them from harming each other. So why didn’t Widmore hit the panic button and have Ben arrested for a variety of crimes? It would’ve been the best moment to have that pain in the a** removed very professionally. Ben has already moved the island so that would had been also a good motive to ‘retain’ Ben in custody.

We also bounced the idea that somehow - BiB is special, Smokey would have had some kind of limited access to the outside world, mainly through someone else. I was thinking Richard but what if it was Abadon serving as a double agent for Smokey in the outside world pretending that he’s working for Widmore?

So I am thinking that Abadon worked in the medical field at Dharma or even before that. Smokey recruits Abadon - a sinister name for the underworld, very important symbolism. Abadon gets released from his duties on the island, and in the outside world he keeps an eye on Widmore. He could be a triple agent, working - sic, for Widmore, for Ben and for Smokey if not even for Eloise making him a quadruple agent. Boy, am I ahead of myself and out on the range with this one.

The biggest looser here is Widmore who’s loosing his people to Ben’s assassin - Sayid. The same can be said of Jacob who’s off the island recruiting. Smokey could’ve spied on Jacob’s Lighthouse and instructs Abadon to sabotage Jacob’s efforts. Jacob just like Ben, has a secret weapon - Ilana. Suffice to say that this route has not been explored or well developed by the show’s creators.

Anyhow, Abadon sends the best recruit for Smokey - Locke, to the island. The foreseer does the same with Claire. Things gets complicated by the hatch-Des-incident so a new plan needs to be formulated. Smokey wants everybody dead and off the island whereas there’s no protector in place to hinder his plans, whatever those are.
At this point, Abadon pretending to do so for and at the instructions of Widmore, hires the freighter sci-crew, but on the side he hires Keamy to go there and kill everybody including the candidates. Why not just the candidates? To hide the id of the real targets just like Ben ambushed Kate, Sawyer and Hugo - not hot targets, when Jack was the prized target he wanted to want to do surgery on him without him having to ask for it.

Keamy is not to kill Ben outright tough and Keamy had a good chance in the Orchid to kill Locke without any effort. Yet he does neither. Neither does Widmore kill the candidates when he has a chance in this season.

Smokey’s plane gets thrown off and the Oceanic 6 are out and about. So Abadon now helps Locke to recruit them back to the island to be killed. But Widmore people gets a hold and kills Abadon first. Ilana also takes Sayid out of the picture. The candidates comes back according to Jacob’s plan, not Smokey.

I think IMHO that this scenario is plausible. Widmore could still be up to not much good, is Lost, but the evidence is not supportive of Widmore really wanting the people to be offed just like that. What do you think?

Florin Milea said...

@candidate - What did you thought of "Ugly Betty" - Just Betty at the end, of course not on this post.

Mike V. said...

@David - Yeah, that article I linked had some good observations. And I'm glad you still like my "Jacob was the Hanso's" theory LOL It's a good time. If only that damned "LOST EXPERIENCE" game between season 2 and 3 didn't show us a picture of Alvar Hanso! But, I could see them not really considering that canon to the show lol

@Anonymous 5:57 - I did hear about the 3 endings on Kimmel. I wouldn't be surprised if they were joke endings, but I assumed they'd be real ones. We did see alternate endings to season 4's finale with Desmond and Sawyer in the coffin too lol They were in there in case anything leaked about the finale...so they may have done something similar for LOST. I really doubt that it would be a "pick your own ending"....whatever airs is the ACTUAL ending lol

@VVP2 - I was a semi-x-files fan....didn't watch every episode every week...even missed a few seasons here and there lol But i did see the ending and I agree it was kinda rough! Ending a TV show is tough...but I just can't imagine that LOST won't deliver the goods. Every single season finale has been fantastic....the writing, the epic nature, the acting...all fantastic. Yeah, maybe the answers won't be everything we are looking for...but I would imagine the episode itself will be GREAT! That was a joke about the Sopranos Russian being on LOST, right? lol I never thought Mikhail was the same actor that was in season 3's The Pine Barrens episode of the Sopranos. What a great episode (i actually lived near the Pine Barrens growing up btw lol)

@Mike V (yep that's me!) that's for recommending that Sports Guy podcast! It's awesome! Seriously guys, check it out. It's a great interview.

@Florin - your description of how LOST all started is MOSTLY accurate, but I would correct one thing. Damon and JJ were the ones that came up with the idea based on Jeffrey Lieber's original concept. Carlton came in upon Damon's request when JJ left to do Mission Impossible III. Carlton talks all about it on that podcast I referenced above. Check it out!

As with ending a TV show...you have to consider the vast amount of theories and ideas that are out there....people's perceptions on how they think their favorite show will end. Darlton are faced with the impossible challenge of pleasing everyone. I totally understand their dilemma. In the end, it's THEIR show..and I'm just glad to have seen what they've put together over the years. It's been an amazing ride! (nice on the IT lingo! lol) I hear you on little clues being planted here and there.....but sometimes there are clues planted by US in the show where the producers never intended it! Carlton uses a great analogy in the podcast I referenced about one of his favorite directors who had a piano in all of his movies. Some fan questioned the meaning of it all ....and the symbolism of the piano and how it reflects on the meaning of life and some deep stuff lol The director's response? "It's just a F****'N Piano!!!" LOL Loved it. I highly encourage listening to the podcast. I thought it was great.

Mike V. said...

@EJ - Thanks for the Jensen heads up. I saw his first spoiler alert but read on and it was a JOKE lol I skipped the 2nd one! It would have been awesome to be at that LOST Concert and screening of tuesday's ep. Some of the SUPER FANS were there too. Why don't I get invited to these things?? lol As for TV appearances...that's awesome that you found me after the TAMPA interview! I haven't been asked to do anything like that this year.....and if you've seen the interview you probably know why! I'm more of the writing type! :-) lol But, I don't want to be sweating over an interview for the finale either...i just want to sit back and enjoy the show! There was a lot of drama going on to make that Skype interview happen! lol

BTW - Candidate - I caught the last speaking segment of your show last night...Wish I could have heard more but it sounds like it was a good time. Missed the shout out to the blog but thank you very much! In any case, I enjoyed Iron Man 2 last night (to hell with the critics!) and LET'S GO FLYERS!!!!!

Next up Anonymous, Gnni and more Florin! lol

Mike V. said...

@LOSTFan - Yikes...I have no idea what you're talking about with that SuperEgo stuff...lol So I'm just gonna let it speak for itself.

@Gnni - I think I agree with David that the producers may have come off more arrogant than normal because of how they were interviewed. Plus, it was their immediate reaction to the "FAN reaction to the episode" Carlton was much calmer with his Sports Guy interview (referenced above)....and he put the episode into perspective with how the fans are viewing it. I really don't think they're Laughing down at anyone. They have said on many occasions how much they love the fans...especially after episodes that are accepted naturally lol I really don't think they have been caught in a lie....especially at the beginning of this season they have been more open with when the mythology started to come together. Carlton even explains to Sports Guy how it happened (again)...i've read in many interviews the same thing they said and have stated it here. They had NO IDEA where the show was going when they did the pilot....after the first couple episodes they knew it was going to be more than a 12 episode thing...and they started pulling together the mythology...but the first season they were kind of winging it....between seasons 1 and 2 they had more time to map it out but still had the uncertainty of an end date....so season 2 and 3 were stalling a bit but they still had ideas of where they wanted to take it....then with the end date announced they finalized their plan for 4, 5 and 6...but still the show is organic and they left room for it to grow. They have claimed that the final image of the show has not changed since the beginning though....hence why i think it's jack's eye closing LOL Anyway, I think people are harping on things that they said a few seasons back....at that time they were just trying to get viewers to stick around. Could you imagine if they told us they only have a 50% idea of what they're doing!? lol

Anyway, they don't really need to prove anything to us. The show speaks for itself

Btw...another Q&A with Darlton here (NY Times)


Darlton Q&A

Mike V. said...

@Gnni - as for the Flocke getting back to the light. I didn't write that. I referenced an article...and I found it interesting. Not much more to add on it at this time! But it may inspire some stuff in my next blog! lol

@Florin - way to carry on that night shift! I wouldn't worry about having a life for the next week or so...come on...it's the final 7 days of LOST!!! We earned this :-) As for Legend of the Seeker...I really never considered it nor would I want to....that all being said..I heard it was cancelled too! lol

I thought Abbadon was clearly defined as working for Widmore and helping them get where they are going. So you're thinking he might have more to do with things than we have seen? My guess is because he was on Fringe, they had to make his role on LOST a little bit smaller lol But who knows??? It's a good idea in any case!

Whew...that was a lot of commenting folks! I won't be able to keep up much of today or tomorrow but I"ll see what I can do! Be on the lookout for the final Darlton Podcast...I know it's already been posted on LOST sites somehow...but iTunes doesn't have it yet. Talk to you later!

Candidate said...

Catching up on coments and reading some of the reviews that were posted and interview w/ Damon and Carlton. These newer review and interview postings were a much better read than previous wed reviews posted here. The T.V. Guide review of Across the sea was a good read. I enjoyed the Jacob interview as well. I cant wait to read your review Mike. I see some postings directed at me which I will respond to later this evening.

I can't even say how much I appreciate the stimulating discussions that go on here at Lostaddicts. The tribute to Lost radio broadcast series is one way to give back and show that appreciation. So, Thanks for tuning into the web stream last night. It was a fun Kick-off to the series...there will be more before the big finale.

Mike V. said...

This one got sent to me by a PR person at TIme Magazine. (so cool to be on these people's email lists lol) Anyway, it's also good! Skip the first section though because they discuss shooting a finale scene...i don't know what it said because i skipped it!

Time Magazine Article - LOST



Thanks for the kind words Candidate! I don't think I posted any reviews though lol I did post my season 3 think on that 815sentencesaboutlost.com but that's about it! But everything i'm linking to is a real good time! I hope I catch more of your show next week!

Okay, I'm out for the day....happy commenting all! Dare I say it...I think we're going to get to a 3rd page of comments today! lol That is just insane.

Candidate said...

Mike. ...oops I didn't mean review I meant your 815 sentences


Puzzle for post is tripwee

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - Mostly accurate is good as how Lost got going, but I have to give credit those two folks for it. I would’ve never came nowhere near such intimate knowledge myself.

I hear you ‘that sometimes a piano is just a piano’. I know a very interesting story about George Bernard Shaw and how he had answers for potential questions from his fans. Interestingly enough was that they were concocted but logical and he was appreciated for it even if the fans knew is not exactly what, but they appreciated him greatly for been considerate with them and they rewarded him with high accolades throughout his career.

I guess Hollywood, Disney, etc. can learn something from it. I would go to all those podcasts but boy-oh-boy, time for reading everything and I do read them plus speed load on my computer considering how much is to follow is killing me.

‘Lost’ is wonderful to say it at least and yes many times we should say to heck with the critics. I do still think that is an insult to my and anyone's intellectual capabilities when I see a character shooting a 6+1 bullet capacity hand gun 12 times without a reload. I agree that the creators do their best and just because I am coming across critical at times is only because I want the show to do Even Better than what it does already. It’s easy to put people down. I go the hard way trying to help them out.

Sure I could be so picky and finicky as to ask to know who was the biological father of Jacob and BiB and much more. I won’t do that, but I think that we the fans should have a reasonable expectation in been recognised as an educated crowd. The creators needs to understand that now with so much cinematographic education and the fram-by-frame tech in dvr’s, tivo, etc. the good old days when some of this and some of that would had gone unnoticed are long gone. I am Very Surprised that the show would get a green light while the creators have no idea what’s going to be in the third episode. I learned some other things from those two folks and trust me Mike; You and I would not get away with it in our professions.

I was joking about the life etc. and of course is the final, but I did surprised myself as how invested I became in all this day or night. It’s the first time I did so, and I have seen a lot in movies and TV, but nothing like this.

I hear you on all accounts, the Fringe casting, fiction show, nothing to see here etc. so fictionally speaking yes, the body of evidence would indicate that Abadon was doing more than just Widmore’s bidding. It’s just another theory tough, I have no concrete evidence, just circumstantial.

Candidate said...

Just had a thought about why Kate may be crossed off on the Cave wall.
Maybe when Ben told her she could leave the Island "Just like that???" "yeah just like that." scene I think in season 4. I think Richard was upset about the deal that Ben Made. Like I said Just a thought and not sure if this has been posted before here.



@ Florin.
Thanks for the corrections on my posting on the creation of Lost. My memory didn't serve me to well from over 6 years ago. You are absolutely right on how it went down. My bad
Mike said it's all in the EW Lost issue which is sold out at most newstands in my neighborhood. Headin out for a road trip for a copy and a ticket for the HD movie event w/Darlton.


Cheerz

Candidate said...

Just had a thought about why Kate may be crossed off on the Cave wall.
Maybe when Ben told her she could leave the Island "Just like that???" "yeah just like that." scene I think in season 4. I think Richard was upset about the deal that Ben Made. Like I said Just a thought and not sure if this has been posted before here.



@ Florin.
Thanks for the corrections on my posting on the creation of Lost. My memory didn't serve me to well from over 6 years ago. You are absolutely right on how it went down. My bad
Mike said it's all in the EW Lost issue which is sold out at most newstands in my neighborhood. Headin out for a road trip for a copy and a ticket for the HD movie event w/Darlton.


Cheerz

davidsalako said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Florin Milea said...

Not to worry candidate. I didn't got the whole truth about it either, but once again it was on someone else word. I am pretty sure that nobody knows Exactly how it went down. Some of the other stories they shared with me about the 'culture' in that business are not exactly positive.

On Kate your observation does remind me that Richard was surprised at least. But Ben knew they'll never make it too far except that they did hit the right bearing and safely outside the influence of the island.

Florin Milea said...

@Mike V - I forgot to thank you for the props so I am doing it now, thank you and just to show the appreciation for your work you’re putting in.

The Legend is cancelled too? The bad news just don’t stop, don’t they? Is getting a bit ridiculous with so many cancelations.

I’ve been going on with criticism but let me give by balance a good one at least from Lost.

The actor playing Abadon got casted in ‘Fringe’ so he had to leave ‘Lost’. They could’ve done it in two ways;

- Just drop the character hoping nobody will notice.
- Write it nicely off the show.

They choose well enough to write it off the show as been killed in action. That Little Touch has a such impact dramatic effect wise and it satisfies everyone. Only the absurd fans would want more from it I guess, but those of us characterised by good common sense would leave it at that. I did.

That’s why by contrast those little questions we don’t have an answer are bugging us and it’s because of that impact that it has on us.

Another positive is MiB admitting that people have a natural curiosity about how things works. It was a little statement but of big impact on me with respect to character development.

davidsalako said...

Some pictures of some of our favorite "Losties" at the recent gala event in Los Angeles:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1278384/Larger-life-Lost-star-Jorge-Garcia-brings-pint-sized-girlfriend-cast-party.html

The DailyMail is somewhat of a gossipy paper in the UK so please ignore some of the remarks!

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