Wednesday, March 03, 2010

LOST: Season 6 Episode 6 - Sundown

Hello LOSTIES!  Welcome back to another round of the greatest show on earth!  Although, I will not pretend to be confused on what is going on!   That final scene heading into the sunset was just flat out nuts!    But, I am still loving this roller coaster ride of a final season.  And for that, I dub this 6th hour of LOST Season 6 with its well deserved WOW!!  We were given lots of information and visual evidence to take sides in the Good vs. Evil battle.  I would have to say after tonight it seems pretty clear that there is a Good and an Evil (although many will still argue that this is not what the show is about).   We have been told by the powers that be to not automatically assume Jacob the White is good and Man in Black is bad based on their colors alone.   How about basing it on one of them turning Claire and Sayid into some giddy death happy servants?!   Eh, I'm getting ahead of myself.  Not all is as it seems, I'm sure.   But woa, that was some crazy stuff.   Let's rewind and get into the recap!

Sundown.  For the first 5 hours of this season, the centric episodes have "mirrored" (pun intended) the first 5 hours of season 1.  We got our mostly Jack but some others Premiere episode, we got our Kate episode next, then our Locke episode, then Jack, and then Sun......wait.   Ahh those tricky writers!  They called the episode "SUN"down but it's a Sayid episode!   Sayid's season 1 outing was the 9th episode "Solitary".  I guess they had to abandon that formula eventually with Charlie being the 7th and all.    Okay, enough math.   In Sayid's Sideways story we definitely have some interesting character crossing, some interesting differences in his life but some very clear similarities.  And one major way in which it differs from the previous episodes this season, Sayid does not end the episode with a happy ending (but he certainly is all smiles ON the island right?)   On Island, Sayid is tasked with making a choice between Team Jacob and Team Flocke.   Kate also returns into the mix and has the reunion that she truly desired.   Also starring: Miles, Ilana/Frank/Sun/Ben and THE OTHERS!!    Let's break it down!

Flash Sideways - Sayid
We open up the show with Sayid getting out of a cab in Sideways Los Angeles.  The neighborhood looks very familiar.  I'd harken back as soon as Locke's neighborhood from sideways land, and as far back as the neighborhood that we saw Locke running into Nadia while home inspecting back in Season 2's episode "Lockdown"  (hmmm... Sundown, Lockdown...Coincidence?  Probably!)    Anyway, definitely some interesting things to note here. 
  • Sayid came to Los Angeles to see Nadia, yes.  But this wasn't the first time he has seen her in awhile.  In fact, she is with his brother Omar.  (at least I think that's the name they said.  There is another Omar in this episode as well, but we'll get there)   

  • We actually did know Sayid had a brother from last season's episode "He's Our You".  We found out that Sayid's father gave him approval over Omar because he had the guts to snap a chicken's head. 
  • Omar and Nadia have 2 kids and the kids love their Uncle Sayid.   He even brought them boomerangs from Sydney. awwww   
  • Sayid is a world traveler translating contracts for an oil company.   Seems like he is making a pretty honest living.  We do learn though that he was still an interrogator in the Republican Guard and still has an internal struggle for what he has done.  
  • Sayid and Nadia still carry a flame for each other.  Sayid still carries a picture of her, which happens to be the same picture that the FBI gave him in Sydney in the original storyline.  Whether that's a coincidence or not, I don't know!   I'm guessing based on what we were told, Sayid was on business and not on a forced assignment to prevent a terrorist attack and, in turn, caused his friend to kill himself. 
  • Anyway, it appears that Sayid pushed Nadia towards his brother.  He cannot forgive himself for the things he has done in the past.  It is not mentioned whether or not Nadia was still an activist and came into contact with Military Sayid all of those years back.   Sayid says he could never be with Nadia in Sideways land, but this never stopped his determination in the Island timeline for him doing everything in his power to get to her.  (of course, with a little Shannon detour!) 
  • Omar is in over his head with the 2 dry cleaning stores and appears to owe some money to some goon (an eternal debt as he pretty much implied).   He requests Sayid to return to his old ways and put some fear into these lenders.   Sayid refuses. 
  • Omar ends up in the hospital after being attacked by said goons.  Nadia begs Sayid to not do anything and to just go back to the house and watch over the kids.   Sayid does end up listening to Sayid. 
  • Did I mention we saw Jack walk by in the hospital and appears to be the surgeon that will fix Omar. 

  • Things get much more interesting though, when Sayid gets picked up the next day at the house by the Goon Squad.   Now, maybe some were quicker than others.  But I saw this guy and started wondering "Why do I know this guy??"   I think the suit threw me off.  
  • They take him to some random kitchen where HEAD GOON #1 is making some eggs.  And he sure loves making Eggs.  And all of a sudden we're thinking "wait is this season 4 Eggtown again?"    Close enough.  Because Head Goon #1 is Sideways land is none other than Martin Keamy! 



(You gotta love to hate this guy!) 
  • I honestly never thought they would find a way to bring Keamy and his #2 Omar (ooohhhhh yeaaaaah!) back into the fold.  But this was fantastic.   It doesn't seem like Keamy is working for Widmore in this storyline.  Of course, we don't even know if Widmore was on the Island when it was submerged or what not.   Depends on when it was submerged!  
  • Keamy pretty much is looking of his money, which he claims Sayid's brother is lying about.  The debt was never settled and Keamy is owed much more.    He also claimed to have nothing to do with Omar Jarrah being in the hospital.   
  • Keamy gets distracted eating his eggs and Sayid makes a move.   He ends up grabbing Omar and Goon #3 takes out Omar (nice shooting!  Omar always dying by his own people killing him)   Sayid shoots Goon #3 and then Keamy is all alone.   It was nice to watch Keamy beg for his life and forgive the debt.  But Sayid "once a killer always a killer" Jarrah does not give in.  He shoots Martin Keamy and the dude hits the ground.  


  • Now, all logic would suggest that this is the end of Sideways Keamy.  But if our Island storyline has taught us anything, he may pop up to cause Sayid a little more of a problem before actually dying.   The reason I think this is because I do not think we have seen the end of this story.  Why, do you ask? 

  • Because there was a knock on what I think was the freezer door.  And when Sayid opened it up, it was none other than Jin who speaks "NO ENGLISH!!"  

  • Hmmm, so what was Jin doing in there?  Here's a crazy idea, Jin was supposed to be bringing that watch to someone in both storylines.  What if Keamy was always the guy that this watch was going to?  I am guessing whenever we get Jin's sideways story we will fill in these details and possibly continue this storyline where Sayid opens the door.   And wouldn't it be great if Keamy tries to catch them off guard and Jin gives him a kung fu kick to the head?    Stay tuned folks! 
Interesting thing to note, I do not think we saw Sayid looking in any mirrors in this sideways storyline.  There were no deja vu moments, just character crossings and the tale of a man who pretty much resorts to killing in both timelines.   Does this make Sayid an unredeemable person?  A person with true evil in him?   I would like to think not, but who knows!?   In this case, he was defending his family.  And on the Island or off Island working for Ben, he was defending his friends.   So, to be continued on this one!

Note: A commenter noted that we did see Sayid's reflection in Nadia's door.  I checked and verified. Could be intentional!




The Island
The last we left the "claimed" Sayid on the Island, he was questioning Jack on why people were staring at him so strangely.  Jack explained that Dogen wanted him dead and even mentioned that this all happened to someone else (we can assume he said it was Claire off camera).  Well, some point after Hurley and Jack got on their way, Sayid decided it was time to get some answers for himself.   He brings himself to Dogen's "office".
Sayid confronts Dogen
  • Sayid barges in demanding answers from Dogen.   He wants to know why he was hooked up the machine and got stuck with needles.  Someone on the blog called this last week when Claire was talking about being stuck with needles that she was referring to this machine.  Kudos!    
  • Dogen talks about there being a scale for every man for Good vs. Evil.  This machine tells them how the scale is balanced.  Sayid's scale tipped the wrong way.  I would say that Dogen was intentionally being vague here if he didn't refer to Smokey as "Evil Incarnate" later!   But, do we really accept that this machine can ACTUALLY tell if a person is good or evil?   Reminds me of Jack's awesome comment in season 2.  "The last time I saw a computer that was going to save the world, it didn't look that!"   And that green screen computer saving the world actually seems a little more plausible than a GOOD/EVIL detector.  Sounds like something out of a Crackerjack box!  But, let's just go with it!   Dogen confirms that he thinks it would be best if Sayid was dead.
  • Sayid tells Dogen that he is a good man, which we argued above is somewhat true.  He seems to always have people's best interest in mind even though he goes about it the right way.   But we also know about the "darkness" growing inside of him due to this crazy claimed status.   Anyway, Dogen wastes no more time talking.  He decides to start the fight of the century.  Samuri Dogen vs. Iraqi Military Breakdancing Neck twister Sayid!   I could give a play by play on the fight or I could just show some pictures.  Both guys had the upper hand at some point in the fight, but Dogen had the advantage at the end.  

Choke Move



Rockette's Audition



Frisbee Toss



Caveman Club



Dogen in slow motion "Noooooooooo!" 



Sharp Thing to Sayid's Neck, but sees Baseball on the ground
  • And just like that, Dogen just tells Sayid to leave and never come back.  The baseball definitely has some significance to his past Island life, and we find out a lot more later.  
  • On Sayid's way out of the Temple he runs into Miles.  He tells Miles that he has been banished and that he is apparently evil.  He doesn't understand it since they were the ones that saved him in the first place.  Miles told Sayid that the OTHERS tried to save him but didn't.  He was dead for like 2 hours.  (this is the first time we got a time period)  He says that they were just as shocked as everyone else when he sat up.  "Whatever brought you back...it wasn't them"   Ugh, this still drives me crazy.  Dead is Dead on LOST.  What is going on with him!?  
Claire's Arrival
Meanwhile, right outside the temple, Flocke and Claire stand by the great circle of ASH.   Flocke has tasked Claire with an important mission.  

  • Claire doesn't understand why she has to go into the Temple.  She says that he could send Sawyer or Jin.  Uh oh, does that mean Jin has been claimed too?   And does that mean both Jin and Sawyer have turned into possessed creatures of the smoke as well?   Claire also suggests that Flocke could do it himself.  But MIB says he wouldn't be asking Claire if he could do it himself.   That crazy ash!  
  • Claire says that if she goes in there she wants Flocke to keep his promise.  She wants her son back.  Flocke claims to always do what he says.   Well he also told Sun that he was going to help her find Jin, but then he just went right along with his agenda to kill Jacob!   Just sayin...Flocke is not always a man of his word.  But it is good to note that Claire has motivation to be doing what she is doing for Flocke, more than just her being "CLAIMED" or possessed or what not.   
  • Claire, almost with a conscience, asks if Flocke is going to hurt the people in the temple.  And he responds with "Only the ones that won't listen"...yikes  Claire heads in.
  • Claire enters the courtyard with her arms in the air.   Lennon tells them not to shoot.   She tells Dogen that "he" wants to see him.  Dogen starts his Japanese talk again and Claire demands English.   Dogen says he's no fool and that if he steps outside of the Temple grounds ol' Smokey will kill him.  Claire suggests sending someone he won't kill.  Sounds like a mission for this week's centric character! 
  • Dogen instructs Lennon to put Claire in the hole (which we find out is a very literal order) and to bring Shephard and Reyes to his room immediately.  Lennon mentions to Dogen that he can't find them.  Dogen instructs to look harder!   Naturally, we know that Jack and Hurley were escorted as far away as possible from the Temple by Jacob to avoid the wrath of Smokey.  
Dogen's mission for Sayid
After Claire is taken away, Dogen approaches Sayid and tells him to come with.  Things have changed since Sayid was banished. 
  • Sayid wants to know why Claire was here and what she was talking about.  And thus we get some information on the Smoke monster.
  • Dogen refers to Claire as a confused girl "under the influence" of an angry man.   For years, the man has been trapped.  But now that Jacob is gone, he is free.  The man will not stop until he has destroyed every living thing on this Island.  He is Evil Incarnate.    So this gets into the whole idea of Smokey being stuck in this role of "security system" working for Jacob.   And the questions come back up to who really is the EVIL one.  Jacob the master manipulator or MIB the master manipulator?  hmmmm  
  • As Dogen is talking he unveils a weapon.   He wants Sayid to kill smokey.  We become under the impression that this knife is the one true weapon that can kill him.  Dogen brings up that he will come to Sayid as someone he knew who has already died.  But the most fun wrinkle of all that will have everyone speculating is that Dogen told him to not let the man speak or it will be too late.  Sayid needs to plunge the dagger deep into his chest. 

  • Sayid questions why he would do anything for Dogen.   Dogen responds to Sayid by telling him to prove that there is still good in his soul.    Sounds like an honest statement.   Then again, he also told Jack to REDEEM himself by trying to get him to give Sayid poison.  
Kate returns
  • On Sayid's way out to carry out his mission, he runs into Kate who is heading back to the Temple.   Sayid is confused and heads out informing Kate to ask Miles what is going on.  
  • Okay, so I gotta ask.  I thought Kate was going to wander around the Island until she finds Claire? granted, Claire IS at the Temple, but Kate doesn't know that!   She told Jack and Hurley she is not going back to the Temple, and Kate clearly was surprised when Miles tells her that Claire is there. So, I am guessing we won't see what Kate has been up to, so are we just to assume that she gave up?   And if she gave up, why wouldn't she try to find Jack and Hurley instead of going back to the company of Dogen, resurrected Sayid and Miles?   Oh well, even on the greatest show in existence, there tends to be some "writing conveniences" from time to time (or all of the time!) 
  • Kate enters the Temple and goes to talk to Miles.  Because Miles and Kate are such friends (sarcasm) there is a cheesy greeting on both ends.  Miles: WOW   Kate: Good to see you too  Miles!    Remember when these 2 met and Miles wanted to kill her thinking that she killed Naomi?  My how far we have come!  Granted Kate also got Miles access to Ben so he could demand his $3.2 Million.  Something tells me Miles won't ever be seeing that money!    Okay, back to this episode.
  • Miles asked Kate if Sawyer kicked her out.  He said he was going to go after him too but just figured that he would get berated until he left.  He assumes the same thing happened to Kate, to which she "pretty much" agrees. 
  • Miles also tells Kate that the australian chick is back.  She strolled in acting all weird.  "Still hot though"...  Okay, while it seems like a throw-away hysterical line, maybe it holds some significance?   We have been speculating since season 4 that Miles possibly was sensing something off about Claire after she was caught in the Explosion at OTHERSVILLE.  He kept staring at her and Sawyer issued the restraining order.  Maybe, he truly did just think Claire was hot and was interested in her?   It just happened to be in the same episode that he tells Sayid he was certifiably dead and sat back up 2 hours later.  Of course, it doesn't explain why he was staring at Sayid weirdly during the "death phase" and told Hurley that his look was "nothing."    Not sure why I even try to crack these codes!  I really do just like enjoying the ride! 
  • Kate finds Lennon and demands to know where Claire is.   Lennon is concerned to find out where Ford and Kwon are.   But Kate gets her way by pushing him against a wall.    
  • Just like I mentioned earlier, Claire definitely was put in a hole.   Naturally, this is not the Kate/Claire reunion that we expected back in season 5 when we speculated it happening.

  • Claire is singing her favorite song "Catch a Falling Star and Put it in your Pocket".  It was the song that she wanted the prospective Australian adopting parents to sing.  It was the song that the oceanic airplane mobile played in the medical hatch nursery that was built for Aaron.  And of course, it was the song that Kate was singing to Aaron when she brought him to Cassidy's house off-Island.   Of course, this version of the song is the creepiest we have heard yet.  
  • Long story short, Claire tells Kate that the Others have her baby.  And Kate tells her the whole story of how they couldn't find her and that she took the baby and raised him.  And that he's so beautiful.  But let's keep in mind what Claire said to Jin 2 episodes ago.  If Kate did take Aaron, she would kill her.   So you tell me, what does this look say to you?
  • Kate told Claire that she came back to rescue Claire so that she and Aaron could be together again.  Claire smiles and tells Kate that she's not the one that needs to be rescued and that HE is coming and they can't stop him!   Yikes
  • Kate's time was up and Lennon takes her away.   I'm an optimist at times.  This can't be how Claire ends up right?  Possessed by Smokey?   Granted, we don't know where this Island story is going and its relation to the Sideways story, but surely there has to be a way to get the Claire back to sanity.  But like I already said, let's just enjoy the ride on this one! 


Sayid confronts Flocke
In the jungle, Sayid becomes surrounded by wind and the familiar noises of Smokey.  And then, John Locke shows up, a man Sayid knows who has died.  

  • Flocke says "Hello Sayid" and then Sayid takes the dagger and plunges it right into Flocke's chest.  



  • He pulls the dagger out and says "Now why did you go and do that?"  Woaaa..so just like the gun the weapons have no effect on Smokey's human form.    Now, what I suggested earlier about people speculating would be the fact that Dogen said "Don't let him speak."   This could be too literal, but he did say "Hello Sayid."   I don't know why Locke literally speaking words would prevent the monster from being destroyed.  So I am going to take it as Sayid interpreted it "Don't let him talk to you and sway you to his side"  which definitely happens next. 
  • First Flocke gives Sayid the knife back "Take it I won't bite."  Sayid wants to know what this person is.  Flocke being a little annoyed at being stabbed knows that Sayid already knows something.  Sayid brings up the whole Evil Incarnate thing.  Flocke feels sorry for Sayid and tells him that Dogen knew there was no chance of him actually succeeding.  He suggests that Dogen was hoping Flocke would kill Sayid.  He also asks Sayid if this wasn't the first time he tried to get someone else to do it for him.  We recall Jack and the Poison Pill.  Sayid tells Flocke that it is not the first time.  "Shame on you for being talked into it so easily."   
  • Sayid clearly knows Flocke wants something since he's not dead.  Flocke wants him to deliver a message and thinks it would mean a lot more coming from him than Claire.  
  • Then we get into the Magic Box talk again.  Flocke promises Sayid he can have anything he has ever wanted anything in the entire world.  Sayid said that all he ever has wanted died in his arms.  Remember, we saw Nadia die last season and Jacob was right there asking Sayid for directions.  Perhaps he somehow caused the event to lead Sayid back to the Island?   Anyway, Flocke suggests that even if it seems impossible that he'd ever see her again "what if you could?"   Remember the White Rabbit episode when Jack and Locke had the heart to heart and Jack suggested chasing the ghost of his father is impossible.  Locke said "even if it is impossible, let's say here it is"  (Not verbatim but the same concept is at play here)    
  • There are definitely themes here of making a deal with the devil and all of that.  But the other thing  that came to my mind was the SIDEWAYS timeline being at play.   Is that MIB's goal?  To get off of the Island as if none of this ever happened?   Would he go back to the year and time that he is from with no memory of being on the Island (except for the occasional deja vu?)    Is Flocke just promising Sayid the world to get him to do his bidding?   To make that darkness grown inside him at an accelerated pace?   I can speculate forever, but whatever it is, it worked.  Because the next thing we see is Sayid returning and delivering the message!

Sayid Delivers a Message
Back at the Temple, it is raining and Dogen is staring at the entrance to the grounds.  

  • Sidetrack for a second.  We know there was always an emphasis in season 1 and here and there in later seasons of Locke predicting when the rain would come and go and the fact that the Island storms happen so suddenly (Charlie talking about the Day turning into Night, end of the world type stuff).  I won't discuss for long, but is it a coincidence that it is raining right after Sayid meets with Flocke?    And then you could suggest that Locke was able to predict the rain after he initially came in contact with Smokey in season 1.    It's a stretch I know, and it may have just been raining that day when shooting in Hawaii!   But, I felt it worth bringing up and you know what?  It's my blog so I did!  
  • Anyway, Sayid returns and walks right past Dogen.  He talks to all of the others.  "There is a man in the jungle about a mile south of us by the outer wall.  He sent me back here to give you a message.  He wants you to know that Jacob is dead.  And because he is gone none of you have to stay here anymore.  You're free.  The man that I met is leaving the Island forever and those of you who want to go with him should leave the temple to join him.  You have until sundown to decide."   Cindy asks "What happens at Sundown if we stay?"   Sayid:  "You die."  Dum dum dummmmmmmmmm




  • So, it doesn't sound like such a bad deal, right?  The Man in Black is offering everyone a ticket off of the Island.  He suggests that Jacob has been keeping them all on the Island.  Remember when Ben mentioned to Locke in season 3 that he had to convince everyone to stay on the Island and not everyone wanted to?    On the other hand, he also delivered an ultimatum of killing anyone that decided to stay.  Why would he care if he's free and just plans on leaving anyway?  Does everyone need to be dead for him to leave the Island?  (I've seen that crazy theory out there)   Is going home truly the Man in Black's goal?  It's all still unclear and by the end of this episode it would still seem like we should be siding with Jacob.  But the 2 things offered in support of Man in Black is that Jacob is forcing everyone to stay on the Island and that MIB is offering Sayid (and possibly everyone) a chance at getting whatever they wanted in life.   Interesting...
  • Pandemonium ensues.  Lennon tries to keep the peace.  He suggests that as long as they stay in the Temple he can't touch them.  Cindy is leaving to follow Flocke (I am assuming the kids go with her).  She says the can't chance being killed.   Sayid told Lennon that he was asked to deliver a message and now it's up to everyone to decide what to do.  Lennon keeps screaming it is a bluff and that Smokey cannot come in (to which we get more on a little later).
  • Miles is confused to what is going on and asks Sayid if they're leaving.  Sayid says that he still needs to return his knife and he sort of has an evil look in his eye. 

Discussion at the Spring
We next see Dogen at the spring holding his baseball.  Sayid meets him there. 


  • Dogen assumes Sayid let Flocke talk to him.   Sayid says, first he stabbed him, then he let him speak.  He tells Dogen this is twice he tried to have someone else kill him.  He asks why Dogen didn't do it himself when he could. 
  • We then get the backstory on Dogen.  The baseball is a reminder of his son which is probably the same kid we met during Jack's Flash Sideways.  He was a business man working at a Bank in Osaka, Japan.  One day he got a promotion at work and went out with his co-workers to celebrate.   He got a little drunk and picked up his son from baseball.  There was a car accident.  He was fine, his son, not so fine.  In the hospital, a man came to him and promised that he could save his son in exchange for him coming to the Island and accepting a different job.  And he would never be able to see his son again.   The man was Jacob.  (Yikes, once again not a good PLUS for Jacob.  Why would Dogen continue to do this job if he could leave the Island now that Jacob is dead?)    Sayid says that Jacob drives a hard bargain (hmmm...wait how does Sayid know what Jacob does?).   Dogen asks if the man outside offered a similar bargain to which Sayid says yes. 


Sundown

  • Dogen informs Sayid that it is sundown and asks if Sayid chooses to stay or go.  Sayid says he'd like to stay, but then takes Dogen and throws him into the spring and proceeds to drown him.  WHAAAT???  
  • Lennon runs in and sees what Sayid has done.  He tells him that Dogen was the only thing keeping Smokey out of the temple (now we know why it was a bluff but don't know why Dogen had such powers).   Sayid tells Lennon that he knows and then slices his throat.  HUHHHH????






RIP Dogen and Lennon.  Woa


  • Clearly something has taken over Sayid as we have never seen him get so much enjoyment out of killing people.  
  • I have to ask since it was in the healing spring.  Do we think Lennon and Dogen will be okay because of it?  Or because of Jacob's death the pool no longer serves a purpose? 
  • Anyway, no time to speculate on that right now.  Smokey is coming!  We hear the familiar sounds of the Smoke and then we see it come and wreak havoc on anyone that remained in the Temple. 


  • Kate grabs Miles and tells him they need to run.  (well duh, that's what Kate does best!)   They do begin running but then Kate realizes she has to get Claire before she can leave. Oh boy, we knew that was coming!  
  • Miles continues on without Kate and tries to hold a door closed.  When it breaks down we realize it's Ilana, Frank, Sun and Ben to the rescue!  Miles is all confused, and Frank says that they'll catch up later (but in a cool funny way that only Lapidus can pull off!)  

  • Ben offers to go get Sayid.  When he does he sees there is no saving him.  He tells Sayid there is still time.  Sayid smiles back "Not for me!"   Sayid is clearly possessed by something.  Considering how much history Ben and Sayid have, it was probably smart for Ben to flee for his life! 

  • Kate goes after Claire and when she gets there Claire will not budge in her hole.  She says it's safer to stay down there.  Just as she's saying it Smokey comes rampaging through.  Kate flips into the hole and is hanging right underneath Smokey.  NICE! 



  • Back with Ilana and crew Miles asks Sun where Jin is.  Naturally, this is the first time Sun has actually been able to confirm Jin is still alive.   Of course, we don't know what condition he'll be in if the 2 reunite any time soon. 
(Well at least Sun was in the episode with her name in the title!) 

  • Ilana finds the secret passageway that Hurley took Jack through in last week's episode.  She gets the crew sans Kate and Crazy Claire in into the passage. 
  • Then, there is the aftermath.  Remember all of those musical slow motion montages that we got earlier in the series with people eating or just enjoying each other's company?   Well, we got one in this episode but it just dealt with Kate and the Crazies leaving the temple.  Kate grabbed a gun.  Claire and Sayid are all smiles.  They walk over a bunch of dead bodies.  And outside the temple, Flocke and the Others are waiting.   (Note: Song was yet another creepy version of "Catch a Falling Star".)




  • Flocke nods in approval of Claire and Sayid.   Kate looks absolutely shocked to even see John Locke walking around. 

  • Flocke then begins to walk, and Sayid (smiling), Claire, Cindy, the Kids and all of the others are all following behind.   And it looks like Kate is the only one alarmed by the scene going on.  

And thus my friends...we have reached the inevitable....

BOOM LOST!!!!!

Wow, I have no more words to describe what is going on.  But, what's up with all of the possessed people following Flocke?  How would they possibly turn the tables on us and tell us that the Man In Black is actually "THE GOOD GUY" that we will be rooting for by the end of the series?  I know they didn't suggest that at all, but they did say not to assume he's bad.  Yes, we could have one of those ambiguous tales where both Jacob and MIB have both good and bad sides to them.   But we want all of our LOSTIES on one side by the end of the show fighting for a cause that benefits them or the universe the most right?   We want the Heroes to triumph over the Villains right?   Why else would we have invested so much time in a show that ends in a stalemate?   And, I leave you with that to speculate over in the comments!   What did eveyone think of tonight's episode?   Naturally, I loved it once again but I cannot ignore the crazy weird path that the show is taking right now.   If it's a means to the end, which I'm confident it is, I'm all on board! 

Hope you enjoyed my ramblings as always and I'll see you next week!  NAMASTE! 



Ending Credits
LOST Merchandise/Contests:
  • Check out Cafe Press's vast collection of LOST Merchandise - There are clothes and other exciting things.  Some designed by fans, and some can even be designed by you if you want.  Check out the site and stay tuned because we may have some exciting free give away contests.  Make sure you follow me on Twitter too because I may run the contests from there. 
Twitter:
Please Click to Support: 
  • I took a night job to pay some extra bills writing forhttp://www.gather.com/.  If you could, please click to view this LOST Recap on Gather to register me a page view.  It will go towards a very small financial contribution for my efforts.  Also, feel free to check out my other articles on the site. 
And of course Check out my other Blogs!

Special Thanks to Dark UFO for the excellent Screen Captures!   And also thanks to my iMac as I was able to create many myself.  So by default, thanks to ABC too for allowing me to post pictures on the blog! 

254 comments:

1 – 200 of 254   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Just starting to read the post and haven't finished the whole thing yet. But didn't we saw Sayid's reflection in Nadia's front door? It seemed very deliberate. Maybe that was the mirror?

Anonymous said...

Flocke says he would go in the temple if he could do it himself, but he can't, but Claire can go in. Why can't Claire just break the circle of ash like it was broken outside of Jacob's cabin and then Flocke can go in? What's really keeping Flocke out of the temple, the ash or Dogen?

Anonymous said...

For those thinking that MIB is the good side, how can that be? Smokey stormed through the temple leaving a path of death behind him. What did they do wrong, stay in the temple? Maybe in the end we find that he's more good than Jacob, but that scene in the temple was definitely more evil than good.

Steve said...

Ok, just a few comments to start off with this week. Firstly, I'm sticking with my "MIB is not evil" thing. I know, I know, it's getting harder to justify, but I just can't give up a good theory :).

As for why, firstly let's look at Jacob. He seems to control everyone's lives, and we are getting the impression that he not only drives a "hard bargain" but he also probably influences things more actively. Now, assuming the flash sideways is a world Jacob didn't have a hand in (I don't know it, but I think it's a valid assumption right now) we have Nadia still alive (Jacob likely had a hand in killing her), Dogen's son still alive (was Jacob there that night, buying him booze?), Jack married with Children, Locke getting married, etc. Maybe Jacob ensures people's lives get to the point where they NEED to go to the island, or where, if they go to the island, they will have the right characteristics to be useful (perhaps a sense of loss of a loved one, or of poor luck, as all of our candidates have).

Sorry, quick tangent, we haven't seen the toy plane in the flash sideways (Kate) yet have we? It was important enough that she should have looked for it. Maybe Jacob took away her love (the boy) in the main timeline, and though she's still on the run, she hasn't lost anyone in the flash sideways.

Anyway, all of the main characters seem to have lost something (often love) in the main line, where they haven't in the flash sideways. I think Jacob requires heartbreak on the island (maybe to be more easily controlled), and for this reason, you can't really define him as a force for good, can you?

As for the MIB killing people, well yeah, that is kind of dickish. But, think of it this way, let's say the MIB's end game is the flash sideways. Let's say to get there, he needs everyone on the island to follow him, etc. If that's true, he hasn't really killed anyone, has he? I mean, if you were playing paintball and you shot someone, sure, they're out for this game, but that doesn't make you evil (since you know they will get right back up).

Finally, the possessions. I think the work possessed is not accurate. If they were possessed, they wouldn't have free will, and it's quite obvious they do. The MIB had to ask Claire to go in, he couldn't make her. Same with Sayid. Sure, Claire is a little nuts, but who knows what being tortured (by the followers of Jacob) and living alone for 3 years will only one thought (your baby) will do to you? Sayid has always been a killer, and we have no idea what the MIB told him (maybe he told him that it would all be reset, which means Sayid would have even less reason to feel sorry for killing someone). Maybe being "possessed" means nothing other than being open to go against Jacob's wishes, for Jacob seems (seemed) to control much more of the island and its people than the MIB ever did.

Anonymous said...

You said, "Anyway, Sayid returns and walks right past Jacob." He did? I didn't see that!!

Steve said...

One more point that I only touched on (I signed up for a google account since someone else used my name last time):

I agree with you that the "Island" may depend on people people there. I mean, we have never seen the island in any point in history without inhabitants (and often two distinct groups of inhabitants that didn't like each other much). Maybe the MIB knows that in order for the island to exist, there must be living people on it. And, if there aren't living people, the island is destroyed.

Getting further into it, perhaps the initial deal between Jacob and the MIB was to see if peace could ever exist on the island (as a microcosm of the world itself). Jacob thinks that people can be peaceful, but they have to be controlled, so he tries to influence the outside world to bring people in that will be able to bring peace to the island. The MIB has decided, long ago, that the only way to have peace is for the island to be uninhabited (though he can't kill people Jacob protects directly, that's the deal). If this is the case, the finale might in fact be the MIB either killing everyone (including himself) or, more likely (since he can't kill the candidates) staging a mass suicide (probably with a Lockeish "Sometimes you just have to have faith" line). Once there is true peace on the island, Everyone is returned to their lives as if the island didn't exist, including smokey. Again, in this case he isn't "evil", he's just pessimistic and rightfully frustrated.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that MIB is good. The only way that he could go into the temple was if Sayid went in and killed Dogen. What have we actually seen Jacob do that was truly evil?

I'm not saying Jacob is all good, but MIB is definitely evil.

Holly said...

Nadia wasn't the only one who "died in my arms" to Sayid...remember Shannon? Maybe that's who Sayid is referring to ?? just sayin

Mike V. said...

Good point on the reflection Anonymous #1, I updated the post to reflect that (no pun intended lol)

Anonymous #2 - Good point on Claire...i think it was a combination. I think he wants to will Claire and Sayid to do what he says to get them on board with the plan. He probably could have asked Claire to make a path for him...but that may not have gotten him INSIDE the temple. It is more like the outer wall of defense maybe!

Anonymous #3 - I totally agree that Smokey seems like one Evil dude right now..or really always has. But it can be argued that Jacob hasn't been any better in the long run. There are deaths on the Island that can be traced back to him. (possibly)...i know Darlton discussed maybe Ben was making lists on his own...but if they came from Jacob...people died in those attacks. Nadia got hit by a car when he was coming in contact by Sayid (coincidence?) Richard (jacob's right hand man) was around when Juliet's ex-husband got hit by a bus. Coincidence? I just don't know. But right now, I'm all for supporting team Jacob because Hurley and maybe Jack are. We'll see how things go!

Steve, I need to digest and I'll be back! lol

Mike V. said...

Anonymous on the Jacob thing...total typo...i'll fix! Thanks for calling it out. I think I meant Dogen.

Mike V. said...

Steve, sorry someone stole your name on the blog. I know it's a unique one!! LOL (just kidding) I don't know if I was even buying into the "people must be living on island" theory but I wanted to throw it out there. Because as always, something isn't adding up on this show. Just trying to figure out what MIB really wants. That does potentially make sense. Very interesting on your deeper dive with "PEACE" on the island. From the initial conversation between Jacob and MIB that we saw, there definitely is something that they are both trying to prove with the people on the Island. But, there are also rules. So is Flocke allowed to interfere and persuade? I guess so, if we have been seeing it ever since he found the LOOPHOLE lol

Next Anonymous on how Jacob can be bad. I tried my best in the post above to explain a few things. Other people have noted that he is a master manipulator getting people to do his will without ever revealing his true intentions. There is so much we don't know about Jacob it's hard to have an opinion on him. But they have given the impression to us so far that he is the Good Guy...which can always be misleading. Like you said though...MIB is clearly doing Evil things...so it's hard to dispute that. Ben also has done evil things, but he claims it's for a good cause. It all depends on the angle you look at it i guess! But I still want to know who the LOSTIES will side with in the end. And I'm hoping it's all on one side and for the greater good.

Holly, you're absolutely right about Shannon, and I thought about that too after I posted. And I did mention Shannon briefly in the post lol But, I think it's always been Nadia for Sayid. Even after Shannon he was reunited with Nadia off of the Island and has been broken ever since her death. This whole episode was about his sideways relationship with Nadia and how even in different timelines he still loves her. Yes, maybe he wants Shannon back, but then we must compare a month and change of love towards Shannon vs. his whole life looking for Nadia. When you put it that way, it's hard to argue!

can't think of anything cool said...

Holy Smokes! (pun intended!) Wow & wow! Awesome episode, possibly one of the best. Mike V- awesome recap again! I don't know how you do it- I'm STILL trying to digest it all! Sayid & Dogen, their fight lasted what?, like, 30 minutes? Ha! Sure felt like it, but in an awesome way...And I was blown away by last week's episode with the mirrors and all, but this episode really blew my mind. I love it! You really don't know who to root for, one week it's Jacob, the next it's MIB...But Smokey sure whipped butt this week. I don't know, I think I'm going with the idea that once Smokey is done, then it will go to sideways land...kinda like, we're having flashfowards again? I DO know it's one smokin ride that I'll be on 'til the end! (again, pun intended)- :)

Anonymous said...

What I think this ep proves is that both Jacob and MIB are both good and bad. Also felt that it was all 'Deals with the devil' night with Dogen telling Sayid to prove there is good inside by killing Flocke and Jack to REDEEM himself by killing Sayid. Flocke offers Sayid to see his dead Nadia if he kills Dogen, Jacob tells Dogen that his son will live again if Dogen comes to the island and never sees his son again.

It's bugging me that Sawyer isn't there, did Flocke just leave him in the cave? That does not make sense that Sawyer would just hang there. And I can't wait to see Flocke produce 3 year old Aaron for Claire ! LOL

Dead is Dead is soo last season LOL. Who says that is true now ? Just like Whatever happened, happened is also no longer true since we now have two timelines.

Obviously we saw Jack walk by at the hsp - but I'm not agreeing with the assumption that he will be Omar's surgeon. I don't think Omar needed spinal surgery. And also wondered if Keamy had a new watch !

Kate told Jack/Hugo that she was going to the beach to look. Could she have been to the beach and then back to the temple by the time Sayid runs into her?
Since Jack told her last week that the temple peeps told him something happened to Claire it's seems ok that she then goes there to find out more of what they know when Claire is not on the beach.


'We want all of our LOSTIES on one side by the end of the show fighting for a cause that benefits them or the universe the most, right?' Not necessarily. Alot of themhave disagreed in the past so I can see them being on different sides. 'We want the Heroes to triumph over the Villains right?' Yes, but if good does not triumph that does not equal a stalemate.

MJ said...

Oops - the last anonymous was me by accident not putting my name in.

Holly said...

Sayid's last name is Jarrah. Maybe his "mirror" is his name. It's a palindrome. Isn't the "J" & "H" the same in some language? Remember the Indiana Jones scene or am I totally confused....JARRAH Coincidence?

Joseph said...

Hey great blog by the way, Mike. fyi, I'm anon #1,2,3.

Even if people died in those attacks, did Jacob instruct the 'others' to kill those people? I have a horrible time remembering what exactly happened in previous seasons (that's just one reason I love your blog) so please tell me if there has ever been a time when we've seen Jacob do anything directly that was evil. Maybe some of the people he manipulated have done evil things, but did he give them those instructions?

Any flashbacks to Flocke's cave when Dogen mentions everyone's scale of good and evil? Flocke took the white (good) stone off the scale tipping it towards black (evil) and threw it into the sea. The whole battle between Jacob and MIB can't be so simple as just being about the inherent good/evil of people but it seems like they're definitely hinting at it.

Timothy said...

I have no problem with our characters being pitted against one another. I actually like it. Excellent conflict potentials with Jack vs. Locke, Jack vs. Sawyer, Jin vs. Sun, etc. Fantastic stuff to come I hope!

Dogen talks about agreeing to come to the island in exchange for Jacob saving his son. I took this to mean his son lives in the Sideways world. Ergo, there are 2 Dogens (island and sideways) and one of his son (sideways).

I further think that Jacob may have made a deal like this with Richard, MIB and/or maybe even Ilana. Come to the island, Jacob says, and I'll give you something. By coming to the island, Dogen assumes the role of Temple Master. He can never leave, but his son lives. By coming to the island, Richard assumes the role of Jacob's advisor. He can never leave either, but he receives something (yet to be learned).

Same with MIB. He lost a loved one off-island. Jacob says: Hey MIB, come to the island and be the security system for the Temple. You can never leave, but your loved one will live.

Anonymous said...

Anybody else find it funny that when Dogen tells sayid to not let him speak it is like lord of the rings??

lols

Steve said...

Timothy: Exactly. Jacob seems to specialize in taking away loved ones. Now, the question is, does he actually take them away (influence their deaths) or does he just swoop in in the right time? Personally, I think he creates loss for people so they will agree to serve him. If that isn't "evil" I don't know what is.

Joseph: Sure, Jacob may not have done anything outwards evil (like actually killing people) but he certainly seems to have used his influence to control people. Who is more evil, the person who controls others' lives, and ensures they lose their loved ones, or the person who kills, but believes it is justified?

Anonymous said...

During the scene where Claire and Kate are in the hole and Smokey is flying overhead, there's a quick shot of Kate's reaction where she looks confused and when they cut back to the view of Smokey, something is in the cloud... I spent 10 minutes rewinding that shot to see what it was. Did anyone catch it? See what it was? It kind of looked like a plane to me, but I'm hoping someone else can see it more clearly!

Joseph said...

Steve and/or Timothy: Does Jacob actually take away loved ones, or does he just show up when they're gone? He was at Sawyer's parents' funeral but they were dead before Jacob showed up. We don't know that he caused Dogen to get drunk and have an accident but he was there after the fact. Maybe he's just taking advantage of these people's grief. We saw him at Jin and Sun's wedding... who was lost there?

Steve said...

Joseph:

Jin was lost there. Jacob possibly needed Jin to be ruthless, and remember, it was marrying into Sun's family that changed Jin into the heartless badass he became. Maybe you could say that his innocence was lost?

Now, the problem with that theory is that, even in the alternate timeline, Jin and Sun are together, and don't see very different (Jin still had the watch).

And I agree, we don't know if Jacob takes advantage of grief, or causes it to happen. What we do know is that in the alternate timeline, dead people are no longer dead, and failed romances are not quite as failed. Maybe this has nothing to do with anything, but personally, I think it has to do with Jacob's lack of interference.

Anonymous said...

Here's a question...wasn't it Jacob who ordered Ben to kill everyone in Dharmaville? And now Flocke (Smokey) kills everyone at the temple who doesn't decide to follow him. How does that affect the whole good/evil balance?

Steve said...

Anonymous: good point. That brings something up, how do we know it's only the MIB that "possesses" people? Maybe they both do. If that is the case, who would be "possessed" by Jacob? Off the top of my head, Ben (who was "changed forever"), Richard, and Dogen seem like good candidates.

What's interesting, is each of these people is a man of manipulation much more than direct action (much like Jacob himself). Ben tries to control everyone else to do what he wants, Richard never interferes physically (has he ever even picked up a gun?), and Dogen tried twice to kill Sayid, but both times through other people. He could not directly take action.

On the other hand, the MIB and his "possessions" are much more direct action type people. If we are assuming Sayid, Claire, and Rousseau, each has killed people directly, and each is a "loner" of sorts (acting mostly alone, not getting other people to do their dirty work for them).

What is the point of this? I don't know, more random rambling I suppose.

Timothy said...

I am not suggesting that Jacob actually takes away people's loved ones. We don't even know if that's what he did to MIB (or, in my theory, Richard as well).

What I do know is that Jacob makes deals with people to bring them to the island. And MIB is now making deals with Sawyer and Sayid to get them off. Jacob will kill (order to be killed) to keep people on the island. MIB will kill to get people off the island. It all depends on if you want on or off the island I guess. And that is where your loyalty will lie in the Jacob/Smokey struggle.

Penner said...

Nice episode....Seeign Sun at the end, made me think of the couple in cave. It's been specualted before but now that we see that those two are on opposite sides of this battle and they don't really care about the fight, they are just trying to get back togehter. But Kate didn't pick sides either so maybe not....

Too bad Dogen couldn't do kung fu under water. They don't seem to be able to kill the people they know are bad - Claire & Sayid. Should have just shot them when they walked in - like they were going to do earlier when Hurley & crew first arrived.

Since they have been shown sympathy I would say that makes them "good" side but sacricies had to be made so they did knock off a few people along the way - gotta break some eggs to make an omlette but maybe they should be poached eggs instead

Has the MIB been all the dead people we keep seeing over the years??? Ben's mom, Christian, Eckos' brother etc.... It would seem the manupulation of Ben started with showing his mom to him which made him run into the jungle & evnetually meet Richard & the others.

With that said, I still don't understand the earleir Dharma vs Others battle, it seems they were both on Jacob's side...

Lennon was the only Other that was kind of a wimp, he let Kate push him against the wall, the rest of them were good fighters

It would have been nice if Kate mentioned that Aaron was with Claire's mom too (since she was in coma last time she saw her)but I digress

Gotta Love Lost.......

davidsalako said...

MIB: "They come, they fight, they corrupt, they destroy. Always ends the same".
I don't know how to connect this statement with MIB's/Smokey's activities in "SunDown". Seems to me that "they" are actually him (MIB) and his trancelike followers?
Yet anpther bloodbath much like the Dharma Initiative ending poison gas episode.
Will Cindy, Zach and Emma and their tale always be a mystery to us viewers?
Could Charlotte's pronouncement of "this place is death" be a very wise statement?
Could Locke's father's statement in Other's captivity be knowledgeable about "this place being hell"?
Yet more kudos to Michael Emerson's acting abilities in his run in with the new "sith lord" Sayid! He got out of there real fast and the expression on his face - priceless! LOL!

Anonymous said...

I meant to post last night, but didn't know if anyone would read it, so here it goes:

The reason that Sun was separated from the other losties when returning to the island is that she would be able to tell that Jin is no longer himself. I think if and when they reunite on the island, this will be evident.

The only question is who was delaying this discovery by Sun, the MIB or Jacob?

Anonymous said...

Here's a thought:

What if Jacob's side of the arguement is that people will sacrifice themselves to save a loved one (for instance Dogen), while the MIB's side of the arguement is that people will kill or sacrifice others to reunite with a loved one?

Also, thank you for the kudos about the needles Mike.

Mike V. said...

OMG that's a lot of comments! It's starting to get really tough for me to keep up! But I will try my best. Please don't be offended if I do not touch on your comment. I promise I will read everything!

Can't think- thanks for the props! Yeah the Sayid/Dogen fight was awesome! And the whole action packed episode was great.

MJ - Dead is Dead was the NAME of an episode in season 5 but it was to stress the point that Darlton have stressed since DAY 1 of LOST. On LOST Dead is Dead. There are no Zombies there are no ressurections. Once you're dead, you're dead. They stressed this in season 3 again when Heroes started and killed people and brought them back in every episode! Whatever Happened Happened was also a big theme since season 3 with the whole Course Correction talk of Eloise. And Darlton stressed over and over again that his was the talk. The sideways timeline has not been proven to be a result of Jughead. I think we need that explained to us on the show before we can make assumptions! yes, Juliet did say "It worked" but that's all we have so far! lol

I didn't assume Jack was the surgeon at first either...but he was walking right next to the guy that stopped to talk to Nadia and Sayid...and he was carrying a chart. I figured he was involved somehow.

touche' on Kate going to temple to find out more about claire!

As for the LOSTIES not teaming up at the end...hey we can agree to disagree. That is just my preference! If they truly want to get back to a season 1 feel and come full circle with this final season...i think we need all of the LOSTIES on one side.

And with your last comment...are you suggesting that the Villains could WIN? I seriously doubt that's how LOST ends lol

Holly are you talking about in Latin the Jehova (bad spelling) is spelled with an I from Indy and the Last Crusade? lol It's an interesting thought, but I'm not sure Jarrah's name being the mirror is something we'd be asked to figure out!

Thanks Joseph! No, we have not seen ANYTHING with Jacob giving people instructions to kill people. We have only seen what THE OTHERS have done "supposedly" in the name of Jacob. But we have yet to see Jacob's motives for anything which is why it's hard to tell if he's a good guy.

Tim - I like the characters against each other at FIRST...as part of the story development. I just think by the end they will see the error of their ways. Or Jack will do something to save them or something. I have one sentence that makes me think they will all work together at the end....oh you all know it is coming:

LIVE TOGETHER DIE ALONE!!!

Interesting with the Dogen son thing...maybe Jacob did mean that he would save Dogen and Son in SIDEWAYS land...and not in the the timeline we know. Maybe Dogen's son DID die off island. I don't know if that is what you mean...but it's what I came up with based on what you said lol

Anonymous...i thought the whole thing with that knife and the don't let him speak was VERY LOTR'ish...it was a good time! I was going to comment on the knife being the SWORD OF GONDOR but I thought I would have gone too far! lol

Wow...so many more comments and I gotta run to a meeting. I'll try to catch up later but I'm sure there will only be more posts! Keep commenting I'll get there eventually!

Kelly said...

Wasnt jacob dumping something into the healing pool last episode when hurley first found him? if so would it be something that may help/bring back dogan and lennon?

Anonymous said...

Don't forget that Jin may have had to turn over all his money for not declaring it at the airport. We know that Keamy is a man with money from Sayid's brother. What if some of that money Jin had at the airport was for Keamy in exchange for helping Sun and Jin start a new life. We know from Omar that Keamy doesn't take well to others not holding up their end of "his" bargain.

This also makes me think even more strongly that the flashsideways timeline is "the timeline" after whatever battle ensuing on the island ends. Some have speculated that the losties lives are worse or better in this timeline, but I would argue that their lives are filled with both good and bad. Some things are meant to happen to them (fate), but how they choose to react to these good and bad things is up to them (free will).

Anonymous said...

Did anyone else seem to catch the long stare that Flocke gave to Kate before walking off at the end? Was he surprised to see her there with the rest of them, or was there almost a "twinkle" in his eye as if his plan was coming together?

I also found it strange that Sawyer and Jin were not with Flocke last night. Did Flocke leave Sawyer in the cave, I don't think so. My guess is that they have other work that they are currently doing on behalf of Flocke and that we will see what that is in later episodes.

Also, Richard was intent on getting back to the temple when he talked to Sawyer in the jungle. Could Sawyer have met up with Richard again after the cave to carry out Flocke's wishes.

I think it is fairly obvious that Claire was claimed when she "died" or should've in the explosion at Otherville. That is why I think Jin was claimed when he "survived" the freightor explosion. I don't know how else to explain my reasoning here, but I think these claimed people are "activated" when they come in contact with the MIB/Flocke. Now whether that means they are possessed or not, I don't know. Maybe it is almost a case of Wormtongue (LOTR's reference).

I don't think Jacob is good and I don't think Flocke is evil per se or vice versa. We have seen all of our beloved characters on the show do evil and good deeds. That being said, I think that we are supposed to understand that there is good and evil in everyone to some extent.

Plus, since Jacob and the MIB/Flocke were/still are playing a game with such high stakes, I think they are both willing to do everything to prove they are "right" to the other and win.

AUStarwars said...

Mike, great review as always, I apologize for this length…overall a decent episode, but in reality "The Temple saga" to me was no different than "The Cages" of season 3 that the writers specifically reference as a weak point of the show…I cannot help feeling a bit underwhelmed by this season thus far. I'll try and condense this and make sense, but just remember I have been an avid fan and theorist since episode 1 and I am usually a huge advocate for Lost:

1. There are simply too many characters. The introduction of Doogan and Lennon were completely and utterly useless and seemingly done simply to showcase the acting talents of a couple of actors. Not to sound blasphemous, but it was like when Samuel El said “man I really wish I could be a Jedi” and they wrote up Mace Windu (who I love, but the concept is still the same). There is NO REASON why these two new characters had to exist..why couldn’t they just write characters like Richard to be Doogan (I know, I know, we don’t want Richard DEAD at this point, but my point is you can change minor things)…

The too many characters thing has always been a problem for Lost, but it’s the constant introduction of seemingly important “minor” characters each season (see: Ethan, Ben, Friendly, Whitmore, Bernard/Rose, the Freighter Folks, etc.) that just at times simply disappear a few episodes later with the viewer just saying to themselves “well glad we had them around..” Do we really have to care about everyone? Hell, I don’t care about half the Oceanic folk at this point their stories have become so blah to me, now I’m supposed to be invested every season in new random Others just because they are good actors?

In the end Doogan was written horribly, he was not some bad-a$$ from the Black Rock days, he was a banker that came to the Island not long ago and was again offered a no win choice from Lucifer, I mean Jacob.

2. The big Reveals?:

Each season has its own mini-mysteries (the Hatch, the Numbers, the Others, the Time Travel, the Time Reset, now Jacob/MIB) and most of the time they are some what resolved, but seriously, where are we on the last few big questions? Does it really take four seasons for us to get to this time travel thing? If you had a clue and read things like “The Time Travel Theory of Lost” FIVE YEARS AGO you could have figured out a lot of these “big reveals” that are going on. Really, Smokey being revealed as MIB/FLocke a few episodes ago was a big revelation? Lost needs to stop appeasing the Popcorn crowd viewers that have to be hand held throughout. I am most insulted by the “flashbacks” last episode of reshowing Jacob touching them and that they were all candidates, like no kidding writing staff, I wasn’t aware of that, thanks for shoving it down my throat in flashbacks that you showed at the end of last season because I was real worried that I would have FORGOTTON WHAT THE Fing POINT OF THE SEASON FIVE FINALE WAS UNLESS YOU TOLD ME IN BLACK AND WHITE (no pun intended).

AUStarwars said...

This type of behavior RUINED the X-Files, the modern basis for all of these sci-fi type shows for the masses. In the mid seasons they promised this massive reveal that actually revealed ZERO to anyone who had a clue about the show. And, yes, I get it, they do not write shows for the uber-observers (ie. dorks) like we are, but you cannot be so lazy to just let so much go.

The sheer volume of unanswered questions for the last 5 seasons that SEEM significant at this point cannot be wrapped up in my opinion in any way that can bring closure to issues that we always thought were important. Maybe I am nitpicking, but we still know virtually nothing of the Others and their brain washing, we know nothing about Walt, nothing about the specifics of the time travel, nothing about Desmond and his time travel, nothing about how Eloise Hawking/the Monk and their relationship to Desmond (hell we don’t even know where Desmond IS at this point)..and these are just the “minor mysteries” that we were shown…

And now we have this good/evil (which I still content is Free Will vs. Destiny and the nature of it as it relates to good/evil) Jacob/MIB discussion that we thought existed since the beginning of the show, hence the Purgatory argument…which btw I am now in favor of full force, I think the powers that be were just so upset that us uber-watchers could figure out their oh so complex show in five minutes during season 1 so they have now complicated it so much that in the end if that is what it is, even if it is just a form of Purgatory in some esoteric sense, they can say “ha ha remember 6 years ago, you were right all along” and we all laugh…guess what, I’m not laughing…

3. The nature of character development vs. plot development and the “sideways universe”:

I love the show, I love the characters, but you cannot suddenly take what is supposed to be a character based show (ie. season 1) and turn it into a “sci-fi why is this all happening” show (ie. seasons 4-5) and expect to be able to go back to the character driven roots. NO ONE CARES ANYMORE! No one cares about Jack being whiney and having Daddy issues or Kate and her boyfriends, or Sawyer and his parents, we are over that now..they made the show into something it was not originally and forced us to care about the WHYS of the show and the overarching plot, not the individuals. Tell me you cared when Sun said “oh Jin is alive?!” last night, I dare you. Tell me you even remember its been close to THREE SEASONS that they have been together..no, because now you are obsessed with Jacob, Smoke Monsters, names written on walls, magic mirrors, candidates, etc.

This is my problem with the Sideways universe…we do not care about it in the least. Right now it seemingly has zero effect on the “real Lost Universe.” Now, I believe in the end they will reset the timeline and the sideways universe is essentially the epilogue of these characters after that reset, but who cares? Right now it just feels like season 1 where we see other characters in the backgrounds of the scenes and say “wow these characters have been related for a long time”…well no $hit..it only took us 6 years to get there, oh wait, we noticed this around episode 2 OF THE SHOW…really guys..come on..

I could write more, but I’m over 2 pages in word and probly should do SOME work today..

Not a hater, just frustrated…

gnni4 said...

WOW!
Mike, you are amazingly fast on getting these recaps online! I wonder if you stay up all night writing these or have the precog ability to write them before the episode airs!
Boom! Lostaddictsblog!

I just want to add to the thoughts going on, it was Ben, not Jacob, but he talked Juliet into staying, not going to the island, by 'healing' her sister. Along the same lines as the Dogen deal. I was really sorry to see Dogen die, the back-story on him seemed very rushed (I know time is running out), and we didn't even ever get much more info on Lennon or the temple others...seems they are done with that now.

I thought that I saw something in the black smoke going over Kate also, my son thought he saw people, it was too fast for me and I don't record, so I don't know what it was.

My son also says that the songs all must mean something, he doesn't leave anything to chance, and thought that the catch a falling star might mean that Smokey fell from the sky, and believes that the frozen donkey wheel could be part of his spaceship. Perhaps Jacob caught Smokey and brought him to the island like everyone else, or was on the ship with him? I don't know about that, but put it out there on behalf of him.

Ben was afraid of Sayid, even spookier! Sayid definitely has a maniacal thing going on now.

How the heck does Ilana know what she knows?

Not enough time, I want a season 7!

Jennifer

Penner said...

The sideways offered a glimpse of the good side of Sayid (yes he did kill some people but only when provoked) but he decided to not be with Nadia. He sacrificed his happiness for the greater good. So in this world he is not giving in the temptation to be with Nadia and in the Island world he has taken a different path…..

callmegomez said...

MIB is totally evil. And if you watch the last scene it is very evident there are biblical references: a) what appears to be a burning cross b) what appears to be a slain man on an alter.

This has religion written all over it imo.

Anonymous said...

Mike,

I don't think Miles was paying so much attention to Claire before Sawyer's restraining order because he thought she was hot. And yes, I do think he thinks she is hot.

Miles has a gift, but I don't think he quite understood/understands what the heck happened to Claire and Sayid. He is able to "talk" to dead people, but maybe he could sense that they weren't quite dead or "normal"/alive anymore.

Also, I thought the fact that the baseball fell off the table and bounced straight up and down on the floor without rolling is what caused Dogen to spare Sayid. After all, if he couldn't hurt/kill Sayid, why bother fighting with him at all. I think it reminded him of his son and how he was able to still be good by coming to the island and sparing his son after doing evil that resulted in his son's death.

I took the ball bouncing straight up and down and then coming to a rest to mean that Sayid wasn't tipping one way or the other toward good or evil yet. There was still balance in him.

Also, I don't know if it was previously touched on, but I thought it was strange on how much Sayid complained when he was tortured by Dogen. It almost seemed like he was acting like a baby compared to his previous encounters with pain (Rousseau's torture, etc.)

Weasel said...

Steve: as far as you mentioning that people in the sideways world are better off, remember it is only 2004. I do not think they have gotten to the point in time where Nadia died... so she may still die in sideways land.

davidsalako said...

I don't think the Sideways reality has the characters necessarily better off. It is a deception much like MIB and his promises, kind of half truths. I have no doubt that by the time that universe reaches 2007 we may get a very different picture.

horseman said...

Like others, I also believe that the alt is the show's epilogue. So when characters are killed in the original timeline, maybe it doesn't matter because the original timeline on-island is not "real". So Dogen ends up alive with his son, for example. But the choices you make on the island affect your life in the alt. Dogen made a selfless choice by letting his son live and never seeing him again. So in the alt or "real" timeline he is "rewarded" by being with his son. Sayid made a selfish choice,as far as we know, by giving himself to FLocke in exchange of being with Nadia again. So he is "rewarded" in the real timeline with having Nadia in his life but he cannot be with her and has to deal with his brother married to her. Sort of like a booby prize. So those whose lives are better in the alt do good or selfless things on the game field of the island and those that do bad get the opposite treatment. They LOST the game.

Jenn said...

As always, great blog Mike!

I am also thinking that the Losties will end up on different sides in the end. The three "Lost Supper" promos at the beginning of the Season really confused me, but as I watch this season, I am now thinking that the two sides of this battle are revealed in the promo on either side of Flocke. The reason that there were three versions of the promo were because some characters switch sides throughout the season.

In the final promo, on the left, you have Claire, Sawyer, Richard, Sayid, Kate and Ilana (probably MIB's side). On the right, you have Jack, Sun, Jin, Ben, Miles, Frank and Hurley (probably Jacob's side). The only person who does not make a lot of sense right now is Ilana, but I predict that before the end of the season, she will somehow switch to MIB's side.

I also am not convinced that MIB is evil. I think Sayid's sideways story was intentionally trying to hint at this. Like you mentioned, Sayid has done some "evil" things in his life, but these were for the purpose of good (at least from his perspective). Maybe MIB is a good person, but was forced by Jacob to be a security system that kills. He could be resentful and in his mind, killing people now to end this battle may prevent even more killings in the future.

MJ said...

Our losties have made decisions that put them on opposite sides before - some went to caves and some stayed on beach. Some went with Locke to New Otherton when the freighties arrived, others followed Jack. So it's not exactly new.

Another car accident in the history of Lost !

Wasn't it a little lame that Smokey goes right over Kate just becasue she's a hanging a foot down from the ground ? He could have easily snatched her up !

I think that Jacob touched them when they were at a crossroads - not jsut at a loss. Jack has just had a tough surgery, Locke had just been pushed out a window - some say to his own death, Jin/Sun had just gotten married. Dogen - if we believe him - has lost his son. Sayid is the only one that does not fit - he was happy and was with the love of his life - his crossroads had come and gone.

Mike - 'are you suggesting that the Villains could WIN? I seriously doubt that's how LOST ends lol' - no, I'm suggesting that there won't be villans or heros in the end (we're channeling survivor somehow now LOL) but just the lostie who chose different sides - as I highlighted above.

I agree that Dead is Dead/Happened happened were huge themes - just saying they were used to describe the lost of the past and that maybe they don't hold as much weight as they used to is all.

MJ said...

Since Ben stated that Jacob told him to kill everyone we found out that Jacob never spoke to Ben - so it is suspect

We also now do not know if in LA time that Jin was planning on staying with Sun. At the airport they called her Ms Paik - so they might not even be a true couple.

We don't even know if Jin is claimed at this point yet.

It all seems to be about sacrifice any more. You son will live, but you can't see him. Kill Dogen and you can see your dead wife. Go to the temple and you'll see your son. Jacobs safrifices are hard - but it's in line with helping others. Flocke's are all about what he wants or needs. So maybe in the end the winner will be determined by what sacrifices will be made on each side - how bad they want to win ?

Mike V. said...

Okay...here's my next attempt at keeping up! LOL

Anonymous..on Kate looking at Smokey....I was definitely thinking something might be in there too, but when I looked at lots of screen shots of it, I couldn't make anything out. If anyone saw anything definitely post it!

Joseph..i tend to agree with you that Jacob shows up in these vulnerable moments (like MIB brought up to Sawyer)...I don't know if he necessarily is causing them. He didn't push Locke out a window. But it was convenient that he was there when Nadia got run over. He actually may have saved sayid by stopping him for directions. He was definitely involved SOMEHOW in that one...even if it was preventing Sayid's death...not necessarily causing nadia's


Kelly, I thought Jacob was "INSPECTING' the pool...and he possibly knew my the color that Smokey was coming. I dunno though!

Anonymous...good point with Jin and the money... Another thing..what about that american guy in Sydney in the bathroom speaking Korean to Jin? It seemed like he was keeping tabs on Jin in the ISLAND timeline...maybe he has ties to Keamy as well in Sideways and Island timelines.

Anonymous with the statement about "obvious claire was dead" I figured that the whole CANDIDATE business had more to do with people not dying...like Jack not being able to jump off the bridge. Sawyer getting shot at in 1974 and not getting hit. Michael not being able to shoot himself (even though after he fulfilled his obligations the "island" did let him die. Christian shephard actually showed up and told him he could die) So I figured Jin surviving the explosion was part of that. (maybe even Claire)....i'm not sure WHEN claire got claimed or what the process of being claimed actually is. But I still want an explanation ON the show and not have us trying to deduce it by piecing together questionable evidence! lol

Okay I'm gonna post and then deal with the next set of posters....but gnni - I get about 3 hours of sleep on the night of LOST...I write some..sleep some..then write until I have to go to work. It's a vicious cycle...and don't forget I have to write the pointless American Idol blog too! lol

MJ said...

One more thought - maybe your ability to resist Flocke or not (be claimed or not) was actually explained to us already - the silly good/bad machine. LOL What if your inhernet goodnees or badness can make you more or less susceptible to Flocke's ways ? Good people can do wrong thngs - but they are still inherently good persons. Just like a bad person can do a nice thing ? I don't know - sounded good in my head ! LOL

Tom in Toledo said...

Interesting little note: Last week on the island we watched Claire kill an unarmed man with an axe because she knew if she let him live he'd come after her and she wouldn't be safe. This week we watched Sayid shoot an unarmed man because, again, he knew if he let him live Keamy would hunt him (and Omar, and Nadia, etc.) down and (likely) kill him/them.

What makes that so interesting to me is that both of them have aligned themselves with the Man in Black. We had an idea that Claire had been speaking to him, but it was never officially until reavealed until the end of episode last week. We had an idea that Sayid would go that route, but again, it wasn't until the end of the episode that we find out he is the Darth Vader to MIB's Palpatine.

Two more things: The last 10 minutes were better character development than all of Episode III -- Sayid "goes to the darkside" and never looks back ... he even seems pleased at what he's done. Very well done. I have to put the second post in another comment....

Lauren said...

It seemed to me that this episode was all about delivering messages, and isn't that why Jin went to California in the first place, with all that money and Sun's fathers watch? I guess we could assume that Sun's father was in the same predicament as Sayid's brother since Jin ended up in that freezer.

I'm still not convinced that MIB is pure evil, I just dont think it can be that easy. Every time I've made up my mind about someone in this show I've been proved wrong. With Ben, with Locke, with Kate, Sayid, each one of them have good and evil within them.I believe that MIB is a very desperate man, and Desperate times call for desperate measures. I also think, like many people have discussed, that Jacob has done nothing but destroy lives, tear loved ones away, manipulate... all in order to keep them under his control. Let's just say that this happened to MIB and he knows Jacobs game plan now, I would be pissed and do whatever it takes to break out of his control, wouldn't you?

Also, where is Richard???
Where is Sawyer?
Where is Jin?

Does this scenario seem a little reminiscent of Claire gone "missing"?

And what do we think is going to happen with the Kate vs. Claire saga? I think we all know what Claire's plan is at this point, but do you think Kate will catch on quick enough to defend herself?

Mike V. said...

AU Star Wars! Wow...that is quite a post! Thanks for the props. Many people have compared the Temple Saga to the "Cages" saga....and ironically both lasted 6 episodes lol Good comparison to Mace Windu and the Dogen/Lennon thing. I would agree if I didn't see the casting calls go out before the actors were cast! I think they introduced these characters, like you said..so they COULD kill them. I think they wanted to show that there was another group of others that resided and protected the Temple. I agree that lots of things are still unanswered and lots of things are still going to be ambiguous when the show is over. But I think none of us really expected the BIG answers in the first 6 episodes of the season. Yeah maybe for us that theorized for days/months on end about Smokey being MIB it was not a huge surprise to us....but the way they implemented on film it was awesome. I actually talked to people days before the show aired and was mentioning the Smokey/MIB connection...and they were like "WHAT??? Really? Oh I just watch for Sawyer and kate!" I guess that would be the popcorn crowd you refer to. I still think the show is awesome. But I share your concern for where this is going. But I wholeheartedly disagree that they ever would have resorted to a cop out such as Purgatory. Like they said in season 1...it takes away from the life/death stakes of the show....hence why I still am confused why Sayid is up walking around! They explained why Locke was....he certainly IS dead. But what is going on with Sayid? I don't think we have a full answer yet. Disagree on the sci-fi vs. character argument too. I think it's always been a character show from season 1-6. Yeah...they waved their geek flag in season 5 a little more, but it was the characters that kept the audience invested. I do remember it's been 3 seasons that Jin and Sun have been apart and I have been very invested in their reunion...granted...I thought they would have closed that gap LAST season...but it looks like they're waiting until possibly the end of THIS season. And I'm sure when it happens...Michael Giacchino's (sp) score will get me all choked up and appropriately happy and tearful for their reunion! lol I think there has been a lot of setup with the Smokey/Jacob battle for the past 6 episodes.... the sideways universe...eh...I agree it is seemingly meaningless right now...but i have HOPE that it's all boiling down to something. Yes...the common theory is the EPILOGUE theory...which makes me think it's TOO easy lol But hopefully, when all is said and done...these sideways stories will hold more weight after we know what is going on. It already is interesting with the different Character Crossings that are happening. It will be further interesting to see where it all leads. But I do wish it didn't eliminate FLASH BACKS all together. I think there are certain backstories I would still like to get more information on. And my thought is...if it predates the possible FLASH SIDEWAYS universe....maybe we still will get Flashbacks (e.g. Richard)...but not knowing what exactly the Flash Sideways is...it's hard to say if PREDATING is even an option! lol
Anyway...All really good points of frustration...and I can't blame you. Me? I'm choosing to ignore it for the sake of enjoying the ride. There will plenty of time afterwards to gripe if they didn't satisfy!

Okay...I'm posting this and now working on the next set of comments!

davidsalako said...

I am sticking with Hugo "Hurley" Reyes and whatever side he is on! LOL!
For some reason, I can't forget that really quiet scene he shared with Ben Linus in the jungle as they both sat on a log waiting for John Locke to return from Jacob;s cabin and Hurley split an Apollo candy bar in two with Linus. Ben hadn't mentioned that he was hungry but Hurley shared it all the same!

Mike V. said...

Jennifer - THANKS again for the props! I explained earlier my writing process lol Nice on the "BOOM LOSTADDICTSBLOG!" Yup...ben's actions seem to mimic Jacob's on the whole Juliet thing. I wouldn't necessarily say Dogen and Lennon are done. There is afterall the whole sideways storyline and who knows with this whole crazy ZOMBIE season going on!? lol I'm going to watch the scene again later with Smokey and Kate....I thought i heard lots of screaming within the smoke too or something. I don't know if we were able to see much though. Good question on Ilana....i'm sure her story is coming! This is another case of...'will we get a flash sideways or flash BACK?" ugh...
Penner..good point on Sayid choosing to live with Nadia...I still say he didn't end with a happy ending like the other ones, but that was a clear difference. However, in both storylines he is still a very tortured man.

Hmmm...don't know if i saw the burning "CROSS" or ALTER....but i definitely saw fire and lots of slain men Gomez! I think there are religious themes to the show, but I don't know if the ending of the show will be GOD vs. Devil. I just don't know if the show will go there. It seems like something they'd leave open to interpretation.
Anonymous - You could be totally right about Miles. I was just throwing out there that maybe they were trying to simplify things for us. I agree that he sensed something off with both Claire and Sayid...so maybe that's where we leave it for now! BTW...he says he can't TALK to dead people...he can "feel" their last thoughts. Which doesn't add up with his first flashback where he's talking to a ghost and the ghost shows him where some money is in his bedroom. but oh well!
interesting with the balancing baseball act...i don't know about it but definitely a good theory! I totally agree that he was reminded of his son though. Also, I forgot to mention tying back the Good and Evil "SCALE" To the Black and White Rocks scale in the Jacob/MIB cave. COINCIDENCE? probably not lol
I definitely touched on Sayid being a baby in that episode's BLOG...it was very out of character! Which could have been that crazy darkness growing in him!
David - All I'm saying is that the characters "SEEM" better off so far in the sideways land. like weasel said...it's only 2004. I don't think we know what the extent of the Sideways story is yet. I have said in previous blog posts and comments that we could very well see the Sideways storyline ending up worse.....now if we actually see 2007 in sideways time...we'll see!
Horseman...definitely an interesting addition to the Epilogue Theory. And it could be absolutely true. I was thinking down a similar path with Sayid getting Nadia in his life but not exactly WITH him. Same with Dogen being with the son. Of course, this all only works if the Epilogue theory turns out to be true. I have a feeling things will eventually happen that may suggest it isn't "AFTER LOST"

Mike V. said...

Thanks Jenn! Maybe I'm stubborn...but I'm still sticking to my guns on "LIVE TOGETHER DIE ALONE" It just seems to be the mantra of the show, and I'd hate for them to abandon it to fulfull Jacob and MIB's wishes. maybe the LOSTIES overthrow BOTH of these nimrods in the end! I think there were some cast interviews or maybe producer interviews suggesting that lines would be drawn, sides would be chosen...but people may change sides or team up in the end. I'm sure the LOST crew could convince me that anything is good...but I just don't see Sayd, Claire, Jin, Sawyer vs. Jack, Kate and Hurley being a satisfying ending! I know you mentioned other names...and not in that order. But any combination you go with splitting up the losties...and just don't see it! I pretty much feel as strongly about this as I did about Ross and Rachel during the dark JOEY/RACHEL period. lol Jury is out on MIB not TOTALLY being evil. I'm sure he has motivation for everything he does...but right now he's doing some very EVIL things!

Okay...next round of commenters coming up! (this is taking forever!!)

Anonymous said...

Your blog doesn't offer any insight, it's just a recap of what happened.

Kathleen said...

I give this episode a 5-WOW rating! It has become even more unlikely that we can guess the outcome. But I am intrigued by the frequent mirror, "Alice in Wonderland" and rabbit references. This may turn out to be nothing more than it was for Alice -- a fabulous fantasy dream from which she awoke, to return to life before the dream.

After watching the repeat of last week's episode, I am more convinced that Kate is the mother of Jack's son. Casting has always done a great job of finding actors who resemble each other to play family members. I really can see Kate face in David's face.

Mike V. said...

MJ - Totally agree it's not exactly new to split them up....but when did they ever NOT team back up at the end of each season? The only one that has strayed from the path of everyone else has been John Locke. I mean for god's sake...they all teamed up to blow up the island last season when they seemed to be on totally different sides of the coin! LOL
MIB may still have plans for Katie! So yeah he could have snatched her up but maybe chose not to. As for Sayid being the odd man out of the Jacob Touching....he was happy but did Jacob CAUSE Nadia's death or was he pre-emptive in knowing that Sayid was about to LOSE someone and it would be the most crushing moment of his life? And like i mentioned above...it can't be ignored that he may have prevented Sayid from dying too.
I gotcha on the the "choosing" sides....a lot of people are saying that...and Jacob even tells Ben that he has a "CHOICE" in last year's finale. I could be 100% wrong but I'm sticking with LIVE TOGETHER DIE ALONE! "Every man for himself is not going to work!"
Also understood on the Dead is Dead/Whatever Happened Happened theory for season 6. Again, I'm choosing to stick to Darlton's words and hold them to it! LOL
Agreed on Jin/Sun maybe not being together...we need their side-story! Agreed on Jin not being claimed (we don't know yet) Interesting theory on sacrifices. I think i'm liking my new idea that Jack and crew just get fed up with both MIB and Jacob and find another way to "SAVE THE WORLD" LOL (but naturally I won't commit 100% to it!)

Okay..now i caught up with everyone that posted when I got back to my desk. I'm sure there have been comments in between my comments!

Mike V. said...

"Your blog doesn't offer any insight, it's just a recap of what happened."

Well, I guess in light of a HATE BLOG dedicating a post about this blog last week, I can expect a few "negative" comments here and there. But just so you know. I never promised insight. I do provide my thoughts on the episode, and questions I think are relevant. And then there is great discussion in the comments. Sorry if it's not your cup of tea. Clearly, other people do find it helpful!

Mike V. said...

Tom, good point on killing people to avoid being killed in the future (Claire, Sayid). And totally agree about Episode III vs. Sayid's transformation! NAVEEN ANDREWS FOR ANAKIN SKYWALKER in the Star Wars Reboot! (not that there is a such thing lol)

lauren, I'm on the same page that MIB has some vendetta against Jacob for loss of a loved one. I've been on that wagon since he mentioned to Sawyer that "he too has experienced LOSS" or something like that. And totally agree...where are Richard, Sawyer and Jin? I'm still hoping Sawyer isn't claimed/possessed and is pulling a long con on ol' Smokey!

Kathleen, agree it was a great episode! as for Kate being the mother??? I would think Kate and Jack would have said more stuff on the Sideways Oceanic 815 if they knew each other! But we will see!

Whew...am I caught up? If there are 58 comments then I am...if not...I'm not :-(

Anonymous said...

Mike,

I know you don't agree with Jin being claimed, but I am sticking with the theory of both Jacob and the MIB playing out their game and one of them can't have Sun knowing that Jin is no longer himself.

As for what the losties have always done before, well that hasn't broken them out of this cycle (i.e., detonating jughead). So I think a character (has to be Jack, doesn't it) has to do something very conflicting on the island to set them all free to live their lives without Jacob and the MIB/Flocke influence.

What if the man of science (Jack) has to have faith that by sacrificing all of his friends, that they will be able to live the lives they "lost" by coming to the island. Jack switching from science to faith and from having to save everyone while not sacrificing anyone to sacrificing everyone to save people would definitely be a possible ending to this game.

Anonymous said...

I don't think that Sawyer and Kate are claimed by Flocke. I think they are both still in play for Jacob and Flocke.

Claire, Sayid, and I think Jin are claimed by Flocke.

Tom in Toledo said...

Ok, the second part of what I was saying (I'm on my PS3's broswer, so my character limit was up): WHAT IF ADAM AND EVE ARE KATE AND JACK?

The show starts out with the two of them on the beach with her sewing him up. They have tons of history. It's possible they replace MIB and Jacob and leave their earthly bodies in the cave. Who the hell knows? I just think it's an interesting idea since they're holding hands (IIRC). Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

Mike,

I think it is funny that you don't believe in a machine being able to tell if Sayid or other people are good or bad, but you accept without question time travel, the donkey wheel, a pool of water that heals, etc. all on the same show, lol.

Anyways, assuming that some sort of science is used in the explanation of events, maybe the machine can detect electrical current (present in living bodies), radiation from whatever Flocke has done to them, etc. that was able to tell Dogen that Sayid was or would fall under the influence of Flocke.

Mike VI - One Better said...

Am I the only one who believes that Kate has also been claimed? As we know Claire clearly stated that she would kill Kate if she found out she took Aaron. So when Kate fell into the hole to save Claire, I completely believe that Claire killed her and then MIB claimed her. When she was following behind at the end she looked confused. Kind of the same look Sayid had when he woke up after being claimed. If she would have spoken it looked like she would have said "What happened?" And it is not like Kate to just follow a pack. She is a loner and always on the run. And it also appeared that MIB just knew she was joining in.

Mike V. said...

Touche' anonymous on the Machine vs. Donkey wheel any everything. I probably have gone on record saying it's all kind of crazy at one point lol For a show that seemed to be so grounded in the earlier seasons and said everything would be able to be explained scientifically...they sure have branched out. They even went with the Michael Crichton line saying that anything that can be explained in a Michael Crichton novel based on scientific fact would be explainable on LOST. Time Travel...I can buy it....a machine that tells you if someone is good or bad? COME ON! LOL Okay, maybe I'll buy your scientific explanation on the radiation! lol

Tom - Adam and Eve being Jack is a very popular theory....i guess it's possible...but that would definitely introduce Time Travel again which Team Darlton said they are done with. But, I wouldn't rule it out!

I never said I don't think jin is claimed yet...i said i agree that we don't know if he's claimed yet! lol As for Jack sacrificing himself for the good of the LOSTIES or something like that? Yeah, I can definitely see that and it's kind of the line of thought I have hadfor the past few seasons. (well one of the lines of thought...i'm sure i have conflicting thoughts!)

Mike V. said...

Mike VI....not buying Kate being claimed yet....she is definitely walking around in utter disbelief at what she is seeing around her. She also seems to have her wits about her. The only thing that would make me agree would be...why on earth would she go with them!?!?!!? Granted...she didn't see Sayid killing people but she has seen Claire being kind of crazy....and she sees a man she knows is dead leading the OTHERS away from the temple! Granted...she also saw Sayid die too....and maybe she wants to rescue Claire somehow. No idea. But I would guess that Locke trying to "recruit" Kate will be coming up soon on the show.

Anonymous said...

Mike, don't pay any attention to Anonymous who complained that your blog provides no insight! Half the time I can't put two and two together until after I've read your blog! I, among many, appreciate your time and efforts, and INSIGHT!

I must have dozed off during the show last night, because I don't remember seeing anything to indicate that Jin has been "claimed"! What did I miss?

I am also wondering where Sawyer is and how he will turn up next. Especially since that rope ladder looked like it broke to me! Maybe Smokey picked him up and gently put him back up on the cliff?

I did not like this episode as much as The Lighthouse, and the promos were misleading as far as possibly getting some answers. I really don't like the "characters" Sayid and Claire are right now -- I wonder if something will happen where them will become themselves again. Probably a stretch...

I agree with whoever posted that both Jacob and MIB and both good and evil. I think either one is willing to do whatever it takes to get what they want, but maybe have good intentions?

And I'm still waiting for Widmore to somehow make it back to the island! Thanks for another great job on the blog -- Cajun QT

April411 said...

First time poster here!

So forgive me if I say any of the same things other might of... I have a thought about MIB. Is it possible that he is like the cloud who brought death over the Egyptians in the book of Exodus? That would explain the Egyptian symbols in and around Jacob's people. They are the Egyptian of past now present. MIB is what brought the death among the people of Egypt who didn't have their mantle of their doors marked. I am not sure where I am going with this but I wonder. Also, wasn't there a few Biblical names to episodes.. Exodus, Numbers, etc? Just a thought. But that would make MIB good and Jacob evil. Slavery vs. Freedom?

Anonymous said...

I don't think Jin was claimed yet because he time traveled with everyone and lived for 3 years with Dharma. Unlike Claire; it seems she's been interacting with the Temple folk for the last 3 years.

Mike V. said...

Thanks Cajun, I appreciate the kind words. I don't let the minority get me down!

You didn't miss anything, we never saw Jin last night. We only heard Claire mention Jin and Sawyer asking why Flocke didn't get THEM to do his dirty work. But that doesn't mean they're claimed. We don't even know if Jin is "RECRUITED" let alone CLAIMED. That would be funny if Smokey just left Sawyer down in that cave! LOL But i'm guessing somehow Sawyer will be back on his feet somewhere.

We should know by now...ABC is always misleading with their promos..and i'm sure it drives Darlton crazy! I don't think it's a stretch at all to hope for Sayid and Claire to return to themselves. Well, the stretch is that Sayid is alive at all (and maybe claire too)...But they all seem to be under some "TRANCE" of Smokey's...there has to be a way to break that trance.

I think I was ONE of the people that mentioned possibly both of them being Good and Evil. Maybe not the first. We'll see!

I'm pretty confident we will see Widmore before this final season is over. WHEN and WHERE? I have no idea. But he's coming!

Thanks again Cajun for the compliments on the blog. And thanks to everyone for reading and commenting as always!

TC said...

Thanks for a great recap!

Continuing the theories on good vs. evil, I think it's interesting how the two sides are shaping up.

In MIB/Flocke's camp are Claire, Sawyer, Jin, Sayid, and Kate. Other than Claire (of course there has to be an anomaly, arg!), the rest have all had pretty messed up, dark pasts including murder and manipulation.

This is not to say that Sun, Jack, Hurley, and Miles haven't had their multiple issues, but in my opinion, prior to the island they weren't as dark. I mean, who doesn't love Hurley!

But so on the whole notion that the MIB/Flocke isn't necessarily evil -- it can be a yes & no. The people now on his "side" have done pretty evil things, but we still care about them and have seen each of them also do good. So maybe there is something to the whole notion of not knowing what's truly good or bad. I think that's been a theme all throughout the show.

I just thought I'd toss that out and see if anyone has any thoughts on why/how the two "sides" are shaping up and if there's any meaning in it.

April411 said...

Oh.. and Steve...

I think you are on to something. Maybe Jacob is the devil. He does not do evil just influences people in to doing something wrong?

Here's another thought...Is Dogen's son actually Jin in life? Grown up? Jin does not know his father. Also, we do not know how much time has passed since Dogen has been on the island.

What if the people who are the Others all Lost someone... and the people on flight 815 are the people they lost? Another off the wall idea but just a thought?

Oh, and Mike V... awesome blog. I am so happy to have found it!

Mike V. said...

Anonymous...i think people are suggesting that MIB claimed Jin when he came into Claire's tent at the end of last week's episode. I'm not buying it quite yet.

April..welcome!! Very interesting on the reference to the 10 Plagues of Egypt...at least I think that's what you're referring to. #10 the death of the first borns... possibly Smokey being the Angel of Death, right? Yeah, I guess if we want to go all biblical and have a final answer that is BIBLICAL...that would make sense. But the man in black did tell Sawyer that he was once a man just like him. So I don't know if it fits the bill or not for what LOST is doing with ol' Smokey! But who knows!?

Mike V. said...

Thanks April and TC...happy to do it!


Careful with stereotypes April! lol Jin is Korean...Dogen is Japanese! and yes...Miles is from Encino! LOL Ahhh I love when Sawyer told Miles to translate for Jin last season. That was a good time!

TC...I'll let other speculate on why the sides are shaping up the way they are. But right now I think it's just to create conflict between the LOSTIES. As I mentioned before, I think they will team up in the end! But I definitely need to know what this whole SIDEWAYS thing is to render a full opinion on the matter!

Brian said...

has anyone ever thought that maybe this is just a "matrix" style game of backgammon between jacob and MIB? just using actual people to play their game...

April411 said...

Mike,
But wasn't Jin's mother a prostitute or something like that? Maybe Jin is half Japanese? I am not sure.. It was just another guess. I am trying to come up with something plausible but I think I am losing the battle! LOL! I am truly LOST!

Jenny said...

Just a comment about the religion stuff. I did notice that when Sayid was brought out of the temple water after being drowned, his arms were stretched out to his sides, Christ-like. And...suprise! A few hours later, he's alive/risen. Hmmm...

Lauren said...

So, I think all of the Egyptian symbolism must tie in somewhere. I have also been of the belief that this who Jacob vs. MIB is nothing more than a game. I've only been following this blog for two weeks, so I'm not sure how much of this has been discussed in the past, but as for my personal experience... When that scene (season 1 maybe) where Locke and Walt were playing backgammon on the beach and Locke was explaining the white vs. black. I has an ah ha moment, as I'm sure many of us did. Ever since then there have been a number of game references. Sooooooo I decided to combine these two important details together. Egypt + Games. So I did a search for Ancient Egyptian Games.

Check this out...
http://www.kingtutshop.com/freeinfo/Ancient-Egyptian-Games.htm

I'll just pick out a few details I thought were interesting.

"the game of Senet had acquired a religious and magical meaning which symbolized the passage of the deceased through the other world with his resurrection dependant upon his/her ability to win the game."

Could it be that MIB is playing for his freedom?

"Mehen , the game of the snake which was played on a one-legged table. The board bore the picture of a coiled snake, either carved or inlaid. The body of the snake was divided into squares. Up to six players used three lions, three lionesses, white and red spheres, which were ranged in a box when the game was over. One of the first Ancient Egyptian games ever found was Snake. The stone board represented a snake coiled with its head in the centre. The winner was the first person who moved their piece from the snake's tail to its head in the centre. Like all other ancient Egyptian games, its rules are unknown."

Lets say this is the game they are playing, 6 players: 4,8,15,16,23,42. A snake? The smoke monster can resemble a snake at times.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/b/b2/Smoke_monster.jpg

Just a few thoughts...

Anonymous said...

Just a quick note, during the montage at the end there was a burning cross, could be symbolic in some way.

Mike V. said...

Brain, I think lots of MATRIX theories have been out there. Some even thought the ISLAND was like the MATRIX where people were all plugged in somewhere living out their lives on the Island. I never bought into it.

The whole GAME theory has been going around lately with Jacob and MIB playing a game and using the castaways as pawns. Definitely a possibility. I think my stance on this is...as long as it's not a VIDEO GAME (which some people have suggested)...then I might be on board! I am all for the PHILOSOPHICAL GAME....but I don't want a final scene where we zoom out from the Island and it turns out to be a backgammon board. we see Walt and Aaron playing backgammon in Los Angeles....one of them dressed in white and one of them dressed in black.......and Aaron yells "JUICEBOX!!!!" to declare victory LOL Ahhh good times...I'm officially off my rocker.

April...yes Jin's mother was a prostitite...but we did meet his father! The korean fisherman who also met Sun... It was definitely a good theory in concept! Sorry to shatter your dreams so abruptly! :-) lol


Jenny...yes...those themes are all throughout LOST. What about the whole speech Ben gave Jack about Doubting Thomas the Apostle right before LOCKE was taken back to the island and "seemingly" (key word) Risen again? We also had a PRIEST on the Island! (well fake priest, but you know)...we also had Desmond as a Monk! We also had Eloise in a DHARMA station under a church! Yeah, the religious ties are there...but I don't think that is meant to say that we are living out the END OF DAYS or the Book of Revelation or whatever! lol I think it's all more thematic than anything. We have Egyptian Gods/Goddesses represented on the Island as well. And of course we have ol Adam and Eve!


Lauren, definitely interesting thoughts on the Egyptian Games. I definitely would hope that all the Egyptian artifacts on the island would tie back to something. And there definitely has been lots of GAME talk on the show. Like I said above...I'm all for a philosophical game between MIB and Jacob...a BET or whatever. But for them actually to be playing out a game with points and rules...I dunno. Don't know how I'd feel about it. I would think that would be a silly way to explain the "RULES" that have been governing Island activity. But hey...what do I know!? lol I'm just one man with an opinion!

And a hypocritical one too...whatever those LOST guys decide to throw our way...i'll be putting up that WOW rating on the top of the blog! I'm easy to please when it's all said and done! lol

davidsalako said...

I wonder what that "Book of Laws" that Richard Alpert had with him during young Locke's childhood "test" was all about? Maybe that's where these infernal rules are all spelled out clearly?

I have to watch "Sundown" again but were Cindy, Zach and Emma among the trancelike Others in the closing sequence with Flocke, Sayid, Claire and Kate?

Jenny said...

If the last episode reveals that this was all a big board game, I'm throwing my tv out the window.

Mike V. said...

Interesting thought David.

Rule #42 "IF JOHN LOCKE DOTH CHOOSE THE KNIFE, THOU SHALT NOT ALLOW HIM SAFE PASSAGE TO ISLAND!" LOL

Yeah, definitely have gone delirious by LOST COMMENT overload! Lol

I'm pretty sure I saw the KIDS in the ending sequence. And I would think if Cindy was going to bite it, we would have seen it on camera. So she is probably with Flockey too!

Mike V. said...

That's the spirit Jenny! Sign me up for TV bashing as well! lol

Anonymous said...

Kate's wtf look at the end could be from seeing Locke alive again. She may not even know he is the smoke monster and is just happy to be alive herself and see some familiar faces.

Anonymous said...

Since Kate and Sawyer haven't had any strange incidents on the island where they should have died (I am not counting the helicopter crash in the ocean), I think they are still up for grabs.

I am hoping that Jin is not claimed, but I think it would be another interesting story line to see Jin and Sun on opposite sides of the "war".

Also, is Sun not that important? I only ask because she was right next to Flocke after the incident with Jacob, but Flocke didn't try to recruit her. Is it because she knows her baby is safe? Maybe Flocke can manipulate Jin by saying his child's life depends on it?

Mike V. said...

Oh I definitely think her WTF look was from seeing Locke. And also from seeing her other friends Sayid and Claire perfectly content with what just went down.

Next anonymous...Sawyer definitely had one of those incidents when taking on THE OTHERS in 1974. One of the others shot at him...and it seemingly went right through him. And I don't know how you cannot count the helicopter crash. I think even they commented on the fact that they survived it (AND the 815 crash) without any scratches on them. I think it's all connected.

Good question on if Sun is not important. I would say that if she is or isn't...it may not have mattered in season 5 because he had still not revealed who he was. This season, he seems to prefer the 1 on 1 approach for his recruitment. So he may not have gotten to Sun yet. He did tell Sawyer he wasn't sure who #42 was..Jin or Sun. So maybe he's working on it. And I still wouldn't rule out Ji Yeon...because of the whole idea that she wouldn't have been born unless she was conceived by Sun and Jin on the island. I like that one.

Anonymous said...

Mike,

What I was trying to say by not including the helicopter crash is that it happened to a group of them as did the Oceanic 815 flight. Remember that both Claire and Sayid also survived the 815 crash and that Sayid also survived the helicopter crash.

As far as I know, no one else survived the freighter explosion and that was a huge explosion. That is my thinking on Jin and we can agree to disagree until the show proves one way or another. You may be right on Sawyer, but I can accept a bullet narrowly missing him more so than an entire freighter being blown up by what seemed like a ton of C4 and Jin surviving without even being knocked unconscious. I say that because Hurley made sure we all know that unconscious people can't hold their breath, lol. It just seems very similar to what happened to Claire in Otherville and that seeming to be an opportunity for the MIB to claim her similar to what happened with Sayid.

I would like the idea of Ji Yeon and even Aaron having a big part in the ending, but if time travel isn't going to be in play much the rest of the season, how much could a 3 year old do to determine "good" versus "evil" or free will versus destiny? Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think that will happen. I think them being used as "side" characters in conflicts between the bigger characters is much more likely (like Aaron causing tension between Claire and Kate without him actually being onscreen a lot). Maybe one or both of the kids will return to the island, but I think the audience would be disappointed if we had to learn all the answers through two 3 year olds.

I have wondered if Aaron and Ji Yeon being born and conceived on the island might have to do with the comments that even at the end of Lost, it might not be over forever. Maybe something like if the flashsideways timeline is chosen, then the result of events from the island timeline like Ji Yeon are trapped on the island. I know that the island is under water in the flashsideways timeline, but since time travel has been introduced on Lost, parallel timelines are/can be definitely in play.

HurleyAteMe said...

Mike V

good work this week.

Do you think their is any significance to Jack having a scene in every sideways story, so far? Could he be a Jacob like figure in this timeline trying to steer the O-6 to the island in another time line since the plane did not crash in this timeline? "possibly David replaces him" as the shepherd on the next trip!!!

BDA said...

One theory on the Flashsideways that will for sure be wrong: The Flash Sideways are setting up a new spinoff of LOST. We will get a solid conclusion of the on island storyline. All of the original viewers will be pleased. Then they can pick up in the alternate universe and keep going until the show is no longer profitable. Original LOST fans will be happy and ABC won't be throwing away one of their best dramas, that is still making money. Also, not being on an island would probably make production costs much more manageable.

I wouldn't be thrilled, but THERE IS NOTHING ELSE ON TV THIS GOOD! Even a 75% LOST show would be better than anything on now.

Ian said...

Does anyone think the reason Kate and Claire were safe from the smoke monster in the hole was because they were below ground level? I know Smokey appeared to Ben in the basement of the temple wall, but there's also the whole thing with them possibly burying people so he can't claim them. Maybe there are rules about how far below the ground Smokey can go. I dunno. Just a theory. I'm probably wrong!

There are lots of parallel scenes throughout LOST, and when I saw the Dogen-Sayid fight scene that ended with Dogen banishing Sayid, I immediately thought of Jin almost killing Jae in "The Glass Ballerina" (only to have him commit suicide). There was also a scene at the end of "Stranger in a Strange Land" where Jack gets beat up by that guy (was it Achira's brother?) and told to leave the country. This show is starting to remind me of Back to the Future with all these recurring themes!

Anonymous said...

Here is where I am confused. When talking to Nadia, why did Sayid say that he has been thinking about or repenting (I forgot his exact words) his evil deeds for the past 12 years? What year is he in? Original Iraq war was 1991, so 12 years later is 2003.
And then with Dugans story, I was confused on place. If they were living in Japan, why would they be in LA trying out for a music school? And his kid was a baseball AND music prodigy?

Gregorinho said...

First off, great work on the blog. I really love reading all the thoughts and theories.
But today, after reading through all the posts here it occured to me that 6 episodes into the 6th season, we (meaning the LOST faithful) have absolutely no clue as to what is going on. We don't even really know what the show is about. Good v. evil? Maybe. Free will v. fate? Maybe. Time Travel? Maybe. Native people (The Others) v. Outsiders (Dharma Inititative).
We've met, fell in love with and watched die several characters (Charlie, Libby, Juliette, Daniel). We've seen other seemingly very important characters (Walt, Widmore, Desmond) basically disappear from the show. I mean, we are 6 episodes in and Ben has only had about 10 lines.
We keep waiting and waiting for answers, and all we get are half truths and more questions (example: we finally see that the numbers relate to the Losties position on the Jacob's mirror wheel. Eureka! But wait, does this explain why the numbers were stamped on the hatch? Why they were being transmitted? Why you had to enter them into the hatch computer? no. no. no.).
I'm beginning to feel like Locke following Ben to the cabin thinking I'm going to get answers, when really, in the end, I'll just end up in pit with so many other bodies asking the same question I've asked for 6 long years, "WTF?"

(sorry, had to vent, and didn't know where else to do it)

Anonymous said...

We almost got to 100 posts in the first day, lol.

Mike V. said...

Thanks for the props guys as always.

Greg, I feel your pain. As Locke said in season 2 - It's a "leap of faith"...we have to count on Darlton and Company to deliver. It sounds like we're still going to be confused going into the Series Finale...every answer opens doors to other questions. We will leave this show with questions, but they assure us we will be satisfied. Definitely a leap of faith!

Anonymous...with the 12 years thing...I would say it's close enough to 2004. There could have been events that happened AFTER the gulf war that he was involved in as well. As for Dogen being in LA. Why was Rose working in LA when she and bernard lived in New York in the other storyline? I think it's just for the sake of explaining that these characters were destined to cross....there may be more to it coming in future episodes....but different events have transpired in the past that have led them all to one centra area.

Ian, don't know about the "underground" think with Smokey. I just don't think Smokey was concerned with Claire and Kate in his rampage.

BDA, nice stuff with the proposed SPINOFF idea lol And I totally agree that's not what is going to happen! I am going to miss it too when it's gone. But there will always be the DVDs, the Blu-Rays and Netflix streaming! LOL

HurleyAteMe, don't know about Jack being in every sideways and the significance. It might be....but he wasn't in Locke's OFFICIAL sideways episode...just his name and his card. But I get what you mean!

Anonymous with the helicopter comment and all...I see what you're saying. I still think the way Sawyer looked when he got shot at...that he was shocked he didn't get hit. Eh who knows? But yeah 3 year old Aaron playing a role? No idea.... We also don't know for sure that TIme Travel WON'T play a part in the end game...Darlton may just be throwing us off to not scare the masses. lol But I did have that theory a few commets up about Aaron Screaming "JUICEBOX" to end the whole show! It's a good one!!! (obviously joking lol)

I do agree though that I don't think we've seen the last of Aaron or Ji Yeon...seems too convenient to write them out of the show after all of the importance around their births. I guess we'll see!

TIME FOR BED NOW! It's been a long day. See you losties tomorrow!

Mike V. said...

RE: the 100 comments....yeah i know...it's been nuts. You guys are out of control this year. I really appreciate all of the readership and dedication to the blog. You guys ROCK!

Glenn R. said...

Thanks for the great summary, Mike! Ho hum, another excellent effort by the V-man!

So, I have what I think is a new theory about the sideways reality. But it’s possible that I’m just fully grasping an existing theory. If so, my apologies in advance.

I’ve been a proponent of the whole Sideways reality is the ending for each character, and that all that somehow came about due to something that happened on the island at the end of the season. Well, I was reading Horseman’s idea about the choices of the Lost characters on the island impacting what they get in sideways reality and liked it. It led me to think about this topic again. And at some point, something clicked for me. So, my question is, did it “click” because I have something new? Or because I am just fully understanding an older theory that you guys have already been discussing.

Btw, one of the things I have to say about your blog, Mike, is that you are so inclusive. It really feels like you just give us all a space to explore our thoughts about the show without judgement. As Senor Reyes might say – “That’s awesome, dude!” Thanks for that.

So back to my theory. There are two parts – the first about the Sideways reality characters, and the second about our regular Island-reality characters who crashed, and how the two realities came about. So, since it’s pretty long, I will put it in two parts. So, here goes...

Glenn R. said...

Why There Are Two Realities Theory, Part 1
(And a prediction about how the finale will open…)

Primary thesis is this:
The Losties in the Sideways reality are the YOUNG Losties that existed in the 1974-1977 reality to which our primary Losties traveled back in time.

In 1977, every one of the Losties had a young version of themselves existing somewhere in the world. One example: Miles actually saw himself with his mother and father. How is it possible to have two Miles together in the same reality? I think that the infant Miles we saw in 1977 exists in Sideways reality, and the same is true for every other character. So for example, in Jack's case, it seems very likely that he had his appendix out right around that time. (Someone on Lostpedia has broken down how the only timeframe Jack could have had the appendix was sometime give or take within a few months of the Incident in 1977) . And so on. They were all kids at the time, either on or off the island, and they all grew up to become the adults we are now watching in Sidewaysland.

Their lives are changed (in comparison to our original Island Losties), They are the same people, and have the same karma/fate, and go through essentially the same things, but with perhaps some different circumstances – different enough to account for the changes we are seeing in Sideways Reality now. And, the island will not be there, in the same way (with Desmond pushing the button, etc.), when many of them get on that plane from Sidney 27 years in the future in 2004. (And if we sprinkle in a few concepts from modern physics, such as nonlocal causality, then it isnt’ a huge leap to believe that we always have access to other aspects of our own psyche/consciousness, even if in a different reality, which would help explain the flashes of recognition our characters are having towards each other, or towards theis scars. But that’s for another theory.)

I predict that our final episode (or at least sometime in the next ten episodes), is going to open with the scene right before the incident that we've already seen twice in the Season Premiere - with all the chaos, and Sawyer holding Juliet's to keep her from falling, etc. Only this time we will get a THIRD point of view -- that of Pierre Chang (or whoever) on the island, right after the detonation. And we will go on to see the Incident from the 1977 point of view. And they will show us enough in that 1977 reality to realize that some things are different. They may be small things, or not. But even small things being different will be enough to change the way the future unfolds – for those young 1977 versions of our Losties.

As an aside, it also seems possible to me that the Losties very presence back in 1977 could have been sufficient to change reality, let alone the bomb exploding. But in any case, I think one of those two things did change things, and so subsequently things did not unfold in the exact same way -- such that in 2004 when they fly from Sidney to L.A., the Island is actually underwater. And the way their lives unfolded was different enough to cause the changes that we're watching in Sideways world.

Glenn R. said...

Why There Are Two Realities Theory, Part 2

So, I can’t figure out if my seeming insight explaining the Sideways reality in the post above was all just me re-stating what everyone else has been saying, but in some different words. If that’s the case, then my apologies! I think this second part of the theory has not been discussed.

So, if it were true that the Sideways characters all orginated from the younger versions of our Losties… great. But that does not explain why, if the Incident/Bomb DID change things, then why are the main Island timeline Losties still on the island in 2007?

I believe that Faraday (and Jack) were both right and they were wrong. Or, to say it another way: That there are BOTH a constant and a variable to the equation.

Where were they wrong? They were wrong, because “whatever happened, happened”. It truly is not possible to change your lived history. Therefore, the bomb exploded. Or prevented the electromagnetic tragedy that might have happened. Or whatever. And Jack’s poor miserable tortured reality continued on, from the scene when we first saw Kate in the tree in the opening episode. In that reality, nothing has changed, with the exception that I suspect that the fact that the 77 Losties were blown back to 2007 was a course-correction. The universe can't have two versions of the same people living in the same reality for very long now, can it?

The fact that they did not change anything (in the 2004 crashed Losties personal realities at least) goes back to Miles quote while talking to Hurley about time travel in the episode “Whatever Happened, Happened” in season 5. Miles says: “Time isn’t a straight line for us anymore. Our experiences in the past and the future occurred before these experiences right now [in 1977].” For this reason, Jack was mistaken to think that he could alter his own lived history such that some things that he had already experienced would never happen. He couldn’t, because he had already lived them. And that is why he and the others were course-corrected and blasted back to 2007. The Losties destiny between 1977 and 2007 had already been lived, and thus could not be changed.

But, simultaneously, Faraday and Jack were also right! They were right – that variables (people) can enter the equation and impact the unfolding of reality. They were right, because the impact of the detonation (or whatever it was) that they left behind DID change things – while not for them, it changed things for their younger 1977 selves (see post, above). The “straight line” of time for the 1977 young Losties had a zig added here, and maybe a zag there.

Everything I explained above illustrates this – but again, only for Sideways reality. Jack Daniel changed the futures for everyone living in 1977. The future for everyone on that island (and off) was no longer the identical future that Jack and companions had already experienced in their reality. Hence, the Sideways folks. And hence Darlton’s claims that both realities are equally and fully valid.

Does this make sense to anyone? Another way to think about it: What happened to all the Losties 1977 younger selves when they themselves were blasted back to 2007? Their futures were irrevocably changed. They could not and would not live the identical mirror-image lives of their older selves anymore. Because some fundamental details were changed by the Incident. Their lives were changed into what will lead to our Sideways folks. This seems really obvious to me when I think about it.

Final summary: Island timeline is the same timeline we’ve been watching for six years now -- our losties, going through their lives through time. But Sideways time is the timeline of the Losties as children in 1977 – after some things in their reality were changed by the Incident. Any thoughts?

Wow, sometimes I can't believe how inspired I can be to contemplate the mysteries of a darned tv show!

Mike V. said...

Wow Glenn, that's an in-depth thought out theory you got there! First of all thank you again for the props on the blog and the kind words you said about me allowing people to express their theories without fear of being reprimanded! Again, I think you guys give me too much credit. It's you all that decided to come to my blog and share your theories! lol I just wrote my long-winded, un-insightful recaps to draw you here. I'm like Jacob pushing everyone to the blog against your will! lol

Anyway, so like i was saying, your theory is the worst one I have heard in a really long time. I mean it is truly awful!!! LOL Just kidding, again based on what you said about my openness to theories in the blog!

No, in all reality, it's a good theory and it makes sense based on what we have seen so far. The Island Losties cannot change their own past or future....but they can change it for every instance of them that follows...or something like that right?

Here are my challenges to you to expand your theory:

1.) If that is the case, it would insinuate that everything was resolved in the penultimate season finale. Then what is the point of season 6's Island timeline? What purpose are they serving besides giving us vague answers to the Island mysteries we have pondered for 6 years? There has to be some resonance to the END GAME of the Island that is tied to this Sideways story somehow.

2.) The theory assumes Jughead is what caused the Sideways Timeline. And based on the context of your theory that makes sense. Most people argue that the blast of a Nuke wouldn't sink an Island but it would wipe out lots of it. That underwater Island still had the statue on it and an intact dharmaville...and the crazy dharma shark!

I do like the idea of revisiting the INCIDENT to see the 1977 aftermath of the explosion. I think it would be very insightful. And while Darlton didn't specifically say we'd see that, they did say we would be getting a lot more information about it.

The theory could make sense AND tie into season 6's Island timeline...if we we eventually see these sideways storylines turning for the worse. E.G. we just saw Sayid kill 2 men after he swore he'd never torture ever again. Maybe the first few sideways stories were meant to give us a false impression of a better life for these LOSTIES. My opinion is that these deja vus have to be more than just them thinking something is familiar..... I just see it evolving to a point where they will actually remember things from the Island....and maybe vice versa people on the island will start remembering things from the sideways timeline. Of course, I'm starting to ramble and make no sense.

The other thing I like from your theory is the whole concept of maybe Sideways Jack's Appendix incident was right around THE INCIDENT. That is a very interesting thought. I'm not sure what the implications would be but I like the concept!

Anyway, those are my 2 cents for now....naturally I had to do this before I left for work...so now I'm late for the 2nd day in a row! LOL Talk to you guys later!

Mike V. said...

Was listening to Geronimo Jack's Beard Podcast on the way to work (Jorge and Girlfriend's podcast where they post their thoughts on the script after they read it and before it was filmed...the podcast goes up after airing naturally).

Anyway Jorge mentioned the part where Sayid is at Nadia's door...the instructions in the script says "something is 'off' with Sayid's reflection" They passed it off as nothing really important but Jorge still thought it was strange.

So I think that definitely confirms that the reflection was intentional....and I think it also confirms that we should be looking at the significance of these mirror scenes. I didn't notice anything "OFF" with the reflection, but naturally I want to rewatch for clues! lol

Timothy said...

I think some people don't like Sayid episodes, but I don't think one character embodies the whole 'good vs. evil' theme on the show better than him. Does he do what he does because he believes it justifies a good end? Killing kid Ben for the betterment of everyone? Killing Keamy in sideways world because he knows that is the only way to protect Nadia? Killing Dogen and Lennon because getting off the island is better for himself/everyone? Other than Locke, I would argue there is no more compelling character than Sayid, particularly now that we've seen the good/evil direction the show has taken. Jensen gets into this much more eloquently than I do, but you get my point.

So is Smokey the bad guy? Hard to argue otherwise after last night. But this is not the first time a group of Others has been wiped out. And the 'Purge', orchestrated by Ben in Season 3, was allegedly at the direction of Richard/Jacob. I have posted that before that these 2 Island entities are two sides of the same coin, ying to the other's yang, an Alpha and an Omega as Jensen said. One, without the other, becomes 'evil' or 'bad'. And both offer deals apparently. Your son will die unless you join me and come to the Island and become the Temple Master. Or, you can be with Nadia or be with your son if you join me and leave the Island. Both are manipulative.

Theory: Smokey said he was once a man (like Dogen was once a banker). He experienced some sort of loss that Jacob fixed for him on the condition that he comes to the Island and acts as the Security System for the Temple. And that's why he wants Jacob dead so he can go home. Same for Richard too. And maybe even Ilana, although those 2 are still serving Jacob.

But there are 'Rules' on the Island. When asked by Sayid why he didn't kill him himself, Dogen gives us the backstory on how he came to the island. And one Rule, I'm guessing, is that you can't kill a candidate. Dogen can't, Smokey can't, etc. If Dogen had killed Sayid, boom, his son dies. So when he's about to end the best fight we've seen on the show by stabbing Sayid in the throat, he's reminded by the baseball you can't kill a candidate. Cheesy, sure, but hey it's Lost and that's what we get.

Looks like we're lining up sides here. We know Claire and Sayid are with Smokey. Hurley is with Jacob. Claire said last night to Smoke-man "Why don't you have Jin or Sawyer do it" so I think we can take that to mean those two are with Smokey. Ilana and Sun are probably with Jacob. And then there's Jack, who has to "do something" - pick a side? Whomever he chooses will be a major deciding factor?

And you know Desmond and Widmore are showing up on the island soon. Jacob said someone was coming. I hope its them, maybe Eloise too.

davidsalako said...

Very interesting theory Glenn R.
I was thinking along similar lines to, there has to be a reason we had that statement by Sawyer in 1977 that he could have travelled back home and changed his past/future by preventing his parent's deaths when he was 8. There also has to be a reason for the time traveling number 15 bunny "incident" in the Orchid station orientation video. 15 is Sawyer's number in the Lighthouse and Darkcave.
I am pretty sure those are hints to our tale in LOST!
Also, so far, David Shephard is the only new character in Sidewaysland. Unless Achira - the Thai tattoo lady had a child that we don't know about yet??
Is David Shephard's existence ONLY brought about by the course correction attempted by Jack and Daniel?
Why would Smokey not be able to enter the Temple with Dogen alive and present there?

YankeesCov said...

Just hoping that we haven't seen the last of Locke on the island. It doesn't seem fitting for his end to be a vessel for MIB. I know that Darlton has admitted that the part of Locke was written for Terry O'Quinn. I know dead is dead but it just doesn't seem right to have the man of faith go out like that

MJ said...

'I'm like Jacob pushing everyone to 'the blog against your will!' Good one Mike, really good.

Wow - I've been with ya since season 4 and this year the blog has just exploded ! Guess now that we are so close to the end everyone has a theory. It's great.

MJ said...

'I'm like Jacob pushing everyone to 'the blog against your will!' Good one Mike, really good.

Wow - I've been with ya since season 4 and this year the blog has just exploded ! Guess now that we are so close to the end everyone has a theory. It's great.

MJ said...

I keep coming back to Flocke's promises. To Claire that she will have Aaron back, to Sayid that he will be with Nadia again. For Claire, his intention is to get off the island so this has some possibility, but for Sayid ? Nadia is dead so the only way Flocke could keep this promise is either to kill Sayid so then he is with Nadia, ORRRRRRR - is this where we will start to see the timelines cross ????? I don't know.

Read Doc Jensen - Which I've not done in several weeks. He has his usual craziness and tangents - but I like his thinking on one thing ..

'Jacob is the god of beginnings. He is The Alpha. The Man in Black? Not evil — he's the god of endings. He is the Omega. The beginning and the end. Polar, warring opposites, but absolutely necessary for life to bloom (Alpha) and to have form (Omega). Both are necessary for anything to have meaning. Jacob unchecked leads to chaos; Man In Black unchecked leads to annihilation. Both need to exist in balance; both need to be equally weighted rocks on the scale.'

I feel that it's what all of us have been saying - that this is not simply good and evil - but bigger than that. And I tried to say it yesterday, I think, when I was talking about crossroads cause a crossroad can be a beginning or an ending. But Doc is saying it better than I ever could.

Anonymous said...

Mike, I don't get why you keep thinking the losties lives are so bad in the sideways timeline or why they are going to get so much worse.

I keep thinking that this new timeline is a mirror image of what we knew about most of the losties. Hurley isn't unlucky/cursed, but lucky. Locke isn't trying to fight the fact that he is in a wheelchair, but accepts it. Jack doesn't seem to be an unconfident surgeon, but a good one who isn't an alcoholic. Sayid isn't trying to deny his past and find Nadia, but instead seems to accept who he is and happy that Nadia is a part of his life. Kate is in custody again, but this time she says she is innocent (maybe she actually is). Claire was going to give up her baby, and now she looks like she may keep it. Boone wouldn't stop trying to save Shannon, but seems to accept that maybe she can't be saved, etc.

I am sure everyone knows that a mirror image reverses everything you see. That is my theory on why they keep showing the characters reflections in the sideways timeline.

I really think the sideways timeline is how the losties end up after everything. The only question that I have is it because Jacob/the MIB didn't interfere in this timeline or because of actions taken by the losties in the island timeline? Maybe a combination of both.

vfxdrummer said...

This blog is amazing - disregard any negative posts.

Your recaps fill in the swiss cheese that is my comprehension / retention after watching an episode. I would be LOST without this blog.

...and I haven't even mentioned the stellar commentary.

vfxdrummer said...

In case you missed it, photos I took from last Sat. Paley Festival :
http://tinyurl.com/ykx9ztg

j.dot said...

wow...i tried to read through all the comments but i would be lying if i said i did. anywhoo...i have a theory. very, very far-fetched and a theory that my wife does not agree with and thinks it's stupid...ha? anywhoo...i think the mib and jacob are the same person.

a few reasons have led me to believe this. flock grabbing the white stone and throwing it into the ocean followed by..."inside joke". then...dogan telling sayid..."every man has a balance". also...dogan telling sayid..."did the man out there offer you the same?". they are both master manipulators. we are all starting to believe the mib is evil and jacob is good but both men have hurt and helped people...right? maybe all this has happened because the mib and jacob are connected and thats why there is all this balance talk but i believe they are the same person/thing. the evil side seems to have the balance at the moment. much like sayid is a good person...he can also be very evil.

anywhoo...just my .2cents. btw...im also in the camp that believes too many questions will be left unanswered. i guess as long as we get the big picture thats ok? it's frustrating but ok...peace.

Mike V. said...

Ugh, meetings all morning, I'm finally back! Thanks again for all the props on the blog. You guys definitely rock and it wouldn't be the same here without you. Just go back to season 2 when I was pretty much talking to myself! LOL

Timothy...great point about Sayid straddling the fence of Good and Evil. I still have to read Jensen but I'll get to it! It's interesting how people are still talking about Sayid and Claire as if they are of sane mind with their actions. Like they aren't "under the influence" of smokey. I really didn't think about it that way after this episode, but I guess it could be going on.

FYI - Ben didn't orchestrate the purge. he was involved but he did tell hurley that he didn't give the order. We never found out who it was...but I think it was implied it was Charles Widmore. Then again, Daniel and Charlotte shut off the gas after implying that BEN was responsible. So who knows??? Oh...nevermind..i just saw you suggested Richard/Jacob as the one giving the order. I guess that could be the case too. Richard did make comments about wiping out the US Military and how they "HAD" to do it. If Jacob was giving these orders for the Purge and killing off the US.....then definitely he has some evil to him too. It all could be part of their "GAME" or whatever you want to call it. Maybe once he finds out that a certain crop of people that he brought to the island are not working to plan....he "pulls the reset switch" and has them killed off so he can work on the next crop of people. If that's the case...then we have a whole different ball game.

Great theory on Smokey too...it seems like everyone has their job on the island. Dogen - Temple Master, Richard - Advisor, Smokey - Security System.....and it would make sense if Jacob was responsible for it all. So the SLOW BURN of the season may also be showing us how Jacob has manipulated people just like the MIB. Great point on the rules too....even dogen said in japanese to Hurley "If you weren't protected I would cut your head off" So that is probably why he tried to convince Jack to give him the pill....and get him to go to Locke and get killed. It all makes sense!

Agreed on Desmond, Charles and Eloise too...they need to be there for the final conflict!

Okay..timothy's took an entire comment so I'll keep working on the next ones!

Weasel said...

I think the reason Jin or Sawyer could not go in the temple and deliver the message for FLocke is that they are not "infected" like Claire and Sayid so he cannot fully trust them to carry out his orders... he sent Claire in (and probably knows that Dogen will send Sayid out of the temple) and then sent Sayid back in with the message.

Weasel said...

A question from previous seasons: Why does Jacob not like technology? Remember the first cabin visit?

Mike V. said...

David, I would disagree that there has to be a reason for the number 15 on the bunny! lol I really don't think that the writers had those numbers associated with our LOSTIES from the way beginning of the show. They just threw that in there recently to tie things together. I think we may give the writers TOO much credit sometimes! They are very crafty indeed, but for them to have thought about "ALL OF THIS" from the beginning just wouldn't be possible...in fact...it leaves no room for creativity in each season. But as for Sawyer bringing up the fact of his parents dying and how he could have changed it.....that might be relevant to Glenn's theory like you were saying. The LOSTIES that were in 1977 were all existing at that point off of the island as younger versions of themselves. Of course...certain former LOSTIES wouldn't have been born yet in 1977 (possibly Shannon, Charlie, maybe Boone, Walt) Not sure where I'm going with this so I think I'm gonna shut up! lol

I'll let Glenn tackle the david shephard question since it ties to his theory. But...if you were suggesting that Achira had a baby with Jack in both timelines....I would have to disagree! lol 12 or 13 years definitely didn't pass between the flashbacks in Stranger in a Strange Land and 2004's 815 Crash. I don't know when those events took place...but i figured it was after Sarah left Jack and maybe after he got his father fired. He was in a funk and went into hiding for a bit. But i could totally be wrong with that timeline. I actually try to pretend that episode never happened! lol

And I think we're all wondering why Smokey couldn't enter the temple with Dogen alive...no idea!!

I agree Yankees on Locke....there needs to be some sort of redemption for John Locke.....and I'm with you on the dead is dead stuff....but I also feel that there is something more with Locke to come. We did have that scene with Sawyer where a bit of John Locke came out in smokey....the whole "don't tell me what I can't do!!" Maybe that was a hint towards something. Maybe sideways Locke is a hint at something. But yeah....Locke being a pawn in everything? It would be a sad way for his story to end.

Thanks MJ! I try....i actually thought you first visited in the initial season 3 explosion of blog hits. Seems so trivial now....I think I posted a link on a Jensen recap and lots of people clicked over to check it out...and just stuck around....I think I was excited to get 300 views on Blog Day...it was awesome! It has grown exponentially each season....I mean we had 10,000 visitors last week! That is insane! (getting close to it this week too) It's so sad that it's going to be over soon. But totally agree that everyone having a theory is great.

Yeah...i'm on the same thought process with you with all of the promises flocke is making and maybe this is where the sideways timeline comes into play. Maybe Sayid DOES get his wish but it's not exactly what he wanted. He gets Nadia in his life but she is with his brother. I don't know either. I'm still not sure that I like the SIDEWAYS TIMELINE as the Epilogue Theory. I don't know if it will be a good END STATE to leave the show in. I think it's all going to lead somewhere in the sideways timeline...with the LOSTIES working together in some form...and somehow it's going to intersect with the Island. Just can't put my finger on how or why this would happen!

Mike V. said...

(continued) Nice on the Jensen stuff...I think that's what Timothy was referring to as well.....i'll have to check out his recap (and skim through the tangents! lol) and of course, Doc gets paid much more that you or I do to write his theories up....so I would hope he could have a way with his words! lol And I'm in agreement that there might not be defined lines of good and evil....that fits into the LOST mold. I get that. But i still think that we need to ROOT for something to happen...and I think it will be whatever the LOSTIES are teaming up to fight for in the end. THE FINAL BATTLE! We all know a WAR is coming...they have been hinting at it for the whole show but mostly last season....and they talk about THE WRONG SIDE winning..... I just cannot see LIVE TOGETHER DIE ALONE not coming back into this by the end. Yeah it was all about survival on the island in season 1 but the theme has laid the groundwork for this show. So, I don't care about Jacob or MIB....I'm on TEAM JACK! lol

Okay I'm posting...and then anonmyous, vfx, jdot and weasel are next on my response list! lol

Mike V. said...

Anonymous - I never said I thought the LOSTIES lives are so bad in the sideways timeline. I think we are seeing each character's stories ending very WELL actually. (Except Sayid's story...which didn't exactly finish in this episode. but like you said he seems content with being in Nadia's life...but he definitely carries a flame for her).....

And I didn't say I was confident it was going to get worse....I just think that the sideways story has to lead somewhere....more than just showing us how each of these characters END UP (as the theories are going and as you mentioned as well).. It all sounds good right now, because this is all we are seeing. But I just think there has to be more to it. The LOSTIES were convinced by the end of season 5 that if 815 never crashed, life would be better for them. And maybe this sideways timeline will show us that while it appears so at first, it isn't necessarily the case. It is showing us that their lives are still intertwined right now. But there is a slow burn over the season to figure out HOW this will relate to the Island. So i am trying to figure out how that will happen. We have these deja vu moments....we have the mirrors and reflections that are indicating something (maybe it simply is just what you say just to indicate that what we are seeing is a mirror image of the ISLAND losties). One idea of mine is like what you said...that the sideways story is going to take a turn for the worse as it evolves. and maybe that's not the case. But there will be SOMETHING tying these 2 storylines together. I am 99.99995% sure of that!

And I agree that this sideways timeline is showing us the LOSTIES with no Jacob/MIB interference as well. But I have the same question as you. Is it Jughead that caused it? Is it something that hasn't happened yet that WILL cause it? Why is that island underwater??? We just don't know yet. BTW...sorry if my comment above made no sense..I started writing it as I was reading yours so saw that you covered some things I was writing anyway lol As VFX mentions next....my mind is swiss cheesed as well!

Thanks for the compliments VFX, I'm glad the blog serves different purposes for everyone. And I'm glad the props on it outweigh the negatives! Someone at work that I didn't even know reads the blog tells me sometimes that he doesn't even watch the episode, he just reads my blog! LOL I would not advocate this for anyone, but that's pretty crazy! Totally agree that the commentary is excellent.......and as I mentioned in the last blg....the pictures are great! \

J.Dot - Sounds like you have been listening to Jay and Jack's podcast! LOL Jack has the same theory on MIB and Jacob being one of the same. Those are all good facts to support it but I dunno....even if it's a neat little twist they could throw our way...I don't know if the Mass Audiences would be happy with that ending! And would it put a damper on the Legacy of LOST? Because, even as Jack states on their podcast.....it definitely sounds like the end of a cult classic FILM that I can't mention due to possibly spoiling it for something lol

I am hoping that with the BIG answers will come our ability to piece together some of the little answers ourselves. I think there definitely will be certain questions that NEVER get answered (for instance...the DHARMA FOOD DROP which they promised us an answer on many times. I just don't see how they'd get to it. We know that the Flame station could "order the food drop" we just don't know where it comes from!) Definitely frustrating...and something that could be resolved with a LOST encyclopedia after the fact. But Darlton refuse to create one because they think the only reason people would want it is because we want them to prove to us how they knew what they were doing from the beginning. yikes...lol When I read it, I think they actually took offense to it!

Mike V. said...

Weasel - totally agree with the Claire/Sayid thing. I also don't think Sawyer and Jin are "infected" yet or possibly never will be. Well, "BEN" told Locke that Jacob doesn't like technology. Do we know that for sure? That crazy liar never actually met Jacob until he killed him! lol But then again from what we have seen of Jacob he did create a tapestry without the use of electronics and stuff. And he hunted for his food. Maybe he is just so old that he never adapted to new technologies. but we definitely saw him sit in a car with Hurley! lol But yeah it's a good question. i have no idea!

j.dot said...

wait...what cult classic?! did i miss something?! i should start listening to these podcasts. my wife said the same thing...it would be a disappointment if my theory about mib/jacob being the same person but...im sticking to my guns...ha!

Mike V. said...

j.dot, I really don't want to spoil the film if you haven't seen it. I will tell you it came out in 1999 and it is not Phantom Menace but the movie trailer was attached to Phantom Menace LOL Anyone who really wants to do research can probably find it out by that! Yeah the Jay and Jack podcast is pretty good....i find myself arguing with them in my car when I don't agree with something and i yell at all of the callers who call in with their opinions. lol But there definitely are great ideas floating around just like there are here!

I have my weekly ritual now. Watch the show...write the recap, drive to work listening to jay and Jack, drive home from work finishing the jay and jack podcast, then on thursdays i drive to and from work listening to Geronimo Jack's Beard (Jorge and his Girlfriend podcast).....and if Darlton graces us with a podcast, I fit that in too!

davidsalako said...

I was thinking that it is true that Ben never met Jacob but Richard Alpert did. Ben probably got his little bits of information about Jacob's nature from Richard and Charles Widmore and possibly Eloise Hawking before that. Never have been quite certain if Eloise was a leader of the Others or not! She seemed to be in 1977!

Mike V. said...

I think that Eloise and Charles may have BOTH been the leader at the same time. Maybe they ran things jointly. And with Charles taking his hiatuses off Island someone needed to cover for him so they turned to Eloise. Lots of assumptions there, but it seems to be the case. Good point about about Ben getting his tidbits from them though. That makes sense!

j.dot said...

thanks for the hint...makes sense in my mind but, i agree, it would be somewhat of a disppointment? wait...maybe not...lol. im checking those podcasts when i get home...ha!

Mike V. said...

if you want me to just tell you...shoot me an email (i'm sure the option is somewhere on this site lol) and I'll tell you! But, it definitely would ruin the movie for you. I actually just got it on blu-ray for Christmas and I can't wait to watch it again. (naturally, I can't wait because it's march now and I still haven't watched it!)

Yeah, I'm sure they could find a way to make it all interesting without it being totally stupid. But it would really take away from the conversation they had at the beginning of season 5's finale and it would make this whole CHOOSING sides thing seem so trivial in the end!

I just don't see how they can pull it off without opening some kind of "LOOPHOLE" either (pun intended) lol Like...how would Jacob have been here...but over THERE at the same time? How would he have been off the island but he still wants to go home? you know what I mean?

I don't even know what I mean! lol

MJ said...

Ah - but like you said they can be on seperate sides and wind up together any way - we have already seen that too.

I'm starting to ponder, if a reset does take place where the timelines merge and things change due to the outcome of the war - then that would/could negate any evil act that got you to the place you needed to be !?! It's how they have stymied us with Ben for years now. He's bad, he lies - but he always has that underlying good reason or he was tricked himself.

It very well could have been season 3 that I first found ya Mike - with all our Lost time traveling I might have lost some time myself. LOL

Are you planning on leaving this up after the finale ? I was thinking it will be fun to go back and read all our theories from the early days, before we had the info we have now. I'm sure it will be hilarious !

Weasel said...

Mike V: could you at least give us an idea how far into the podcast it is? I don't really want to listen to the whole thing just to get a movie title (although I think I know what movie it is)

Mike V. said...

Weasel, it's at the very end of their latest podcast. like the last 30 seconds...if you think you know what it is, you're probably right lol They didn't want to spoil it for anyone either. But it was talked about in last week's recap podcast I think and their friday podcast.

MJ - indeed lol Yeah...it's a good question on the "RESET" stuff....like maybe MIB knows that people are going to die on the island...but the END goal of getting off of the island with no memory of it may outweigh it all...and you start with a clean slate.....it's an interesting thought!

Touche' on the Season 3....i probably remember it better since I know when it was just my co-workers, friends and family reading and then I know when the OUTSIDE audience found it. It was a very memorable day for me! lol and it was near the tail end of season 3. (so memorable I forget which episode and the date!)

Oh yeah...I have no plans to let go of the blog! It's 10 bucks a year to keep the URL name (lostaddictsblog.com)...i can probably float it! lol I really don't know what my future plans for the site are though. I'd love to post new stuff, but I just wouldn't know what I'd post! And of course, I'd love this readership to follow me to my next ventures but not everyone will be this into another show like they were LOST. All I can do is remind people to follow me on twitter @LOSTaddictsblog.com and to check out my FlashForward Blog (of course...that show is looking less and less likely for renewal) and check out whatever I'm writing on gather.com! I could always do the ULTIMATE LOST REWATCH after it's all over and go through each episode determining if all our questions were answered. Yikes, I don't know why I would even throw that suggestion out there. My wife would kill me! LOL

j.dot said...

haha! im pretty sure i have the movie figured out. im sticking to this silly little theory. i agree that it would be somewhat difficult to explain certain issues but...it wouldn't be that big of a stretch imo. wanting to be in two places at once is no stranger to many of us.

Mike V. said...

j.dot, more power to you to sticking to your guns on this one. even if the show never explains it I'm still sticking by my Annie is Sarah theory! LOL

Anonymous said...

Wow, a lot of comments so I'm not sure if this has been asked (sorry if it has!)... did Ben get back to Ilana and gang to sneak out of the temple? I don't remember him leaving with everyone after he talked to Sayid...

Great blog Mike!!

Mike V. said...

Did some research on when the BLOG started to catch on. It was season 3 episode 19 The Brig! Great stuff. MJ...you posted your first comment there lol

To give you an idea..there were 27 comments that day and THAT was exciting! I remember everyone emailing me that day who was checking out the blog and telling me that I'm famous ....ahh good times. If only they knew years later I would be humiliating myself on the TAMPA NEWS! INDEED - GOOD TIMES!

Okay...enough me chatting about the good ol' days....back to LOST discussions! (although...i still do wonder what happened to the LOST ADDICTS BLOG ADDICT that was going to offer me $10,000 to put a link on this site! LOL)

Mike V. said...

Thanks Anonymous! Hmmmm i just assumed Ben got out of there as quickly as possible and that he went with Ilana and crew. I'll double check the episode. Good thing I have it on my phone! :-)

Mike V. said...

Wow...really good catch. Ben was NOT with them! I totally missed it. I wonder where he went or will go!?

Weasel said...

OK, I listened to that last 10 minutes of the podcast and still hear no movie mentioned. They do talk about that theory, but no movie... and it is not the movie I was thinking about (mine came out in 1995... can you guess?)

horseman said...

I like the idea that MIB and Jacob are the same person and I agree with Mike V. that it's unlikely. I think it's more likely they are brothers. And if so, who are their parents? And were they also candidates for their jobs at some point or were they the "first"?

Mike V. said...

crap...i may have told you the wrong podcast....maybe it was last friday's podcast. just check them all from last week to this week..it was DEFINITELY in the last minute to last 30 seconds. lol And it was definitely a 1999 movie!

all good questions horseman...and the brothers thing is a very interesting way to go.

Mike V. said...

weasel...i checked...it's in the podcast episode "HOUSE LIGHT" chapter 8 of the podcast...last 20 seconds of it.

Mike V. said...

and i need more hints on the 1995 movie!

Weasel said...

1995 Movie hint: Gimpy

and I love that my word verification is "hokill" LMAO

Weasel said...

oh, and besides "gimpy", of course it also have to do with 2 people being the same person

j.dot said...

yeah...brothers works also. you get into a cain/abel situation...sort of?

Anonymous said...

Mike, you don't get any money for this blog? My wife's friend is sponsered and she only has about 200 followers. You should totally take money if it is offered.

Mike V. said...

Weasel, you wouldn't be talking about pulp fiction would you? Lol I remember the gimp but I don't remember any same character things going on.

I don't get paid for lostaddictsblog but I copy and paste this and other things onto gather.com and they pay me by page view lol that's why I ask everyone to click over if they can!! :-)

Weasel said...

hmmm, I wonder where Ben hid, then, to keep from getting sucked up by Smokey?!

Mike: Strike 1 (actually could have said pseudo-gimpy for the first hint)
Hint2: Interrogation about a crime

Anonymous said...

Looks like the usual suspects in here posting again, lol.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Ben is somehow immune from the smoke monster. Remember, he used to be able to call it into action.

davidsalako said...

I think Ben has a special relationship with both the Smoke monster and Jacob. Since he was and maybe still technically is the leader of the Others???

On another note - someone alluded to this earlier - regarding "the incident" with jughead core, hopefully we will get Dr. Pierre Chang's perspective. He knows an awful lot in 1977 as he has seen the time travelers and his own son from the future!
Was he killed in "the purge"?
Is he living off the island somewhere in his old age?
He definitely seems like a loose end. Did Miles ever mention what happened to him in 2007?

Mike V. said...

THAT'S IT!!! The Usual Suspects! LOL

Glenn R. said...

Wow, the Hurleyblog comment about Sayid's mirror image seems like a very big clue. If true, it suggests that Sideways reality is not quite the true reality. That in fact it might be some hybrid warped altered version of the characters' destinies. Before hearing that, I'd been in the camp of believing that Sideways reality was going to be our ending. No more.

Assuming it's true, then it also throws out all the "there are multiple universes and we are seeing two of them" theories. (or the Many Worlds Interpretation of Modern Physics, which postulates an infinite number of universes exist, one for every possible choice we make.) It also would seem to throw out the possibility that both universes can continue after the show. If "something is "off" in Sideways, then it seems obvious that part of the resolution of the show will have to be to make it right. So now I don't really have any doubt that the events on the island are moving towards some sort of interconnected-with-sideways reality resolution. Which also seems to be supported by events from the Sayid Sundown episode, in particular when Flocke Ness offers Sayid a deal.

And ALSO based on Jorge blog comment, I'm more inclined than ever now to ditch my thought that we are seeing the endings for our characters in Sideways reality. At least for this moment, I think you're right Mike, in suggesting that we'll start seeing more things go wrong in Sideways world. We shall see!

Glenn R. said...

To respond to your other questions, Mike and davidsalako:

Mike
I don't think or feel for a second that everything was resolved in last years finale. Heck no, there are still so many huge, unanswered questions that are more central to what I believe are the Lost story's core themes -- Fate vs. Freewill / Good vs. Evil being the biggest in my mind. No, those are still to be answered, and to me, are bigger than the sideways reality piece. My feeling is that there is something really big in the Through the Looking Glass writeup from Doc Jensen last week that is pointing towards the ultimate answer. I haven't had time to really dive into that. Not to mention that even after diving in, it sometimes takes days, or weeks, or years to figure things out! If ever! ;-) The "sideways Reality theory" was just a meager attempt to answer one of the current mysteries on Lost.

As to whether Jughead caused the Sideways timeline, I do think that's true. But I don't know how it did. Was it the blast itself? I don't think so. Was Faraday right, that the detonation would "negate the Swan's catastrophic energy release?" (quote from lostpedia, The Variable summary). Seems more likely. I just don't know, and I'm not sure it matters, as long as the end result is the same. And I don't think that it's Jughead that sinks the island. I'd guess that the Island continued, but reality was changed enough to trigger a whole new set of events on the island which ultimately lead to the island sinking (very probably by a volcanic eruption, as hinted by Darlton in the commentary of one of the dvds).

@davidsalako
the David Shepherd question. Good one. In my theory, I guess it would make his a very sorry existence, given that he shouldn't in theory even exist! Excellent point, and one that I'll have to consider.

And also, good point about Sawyer's comments. Do you happen to remember what episode that was? I'll have to go back and rewatch to refresh my memory. As well as the bunny episode. I'll get back to you on that.

Why would the island be underwater? Excellent question, and one that has been nagging all season. I'm sure it won't be answered until the finale "Water Episode" as dubbed by Darlton. Previously, I had been thinking that on-island events would lead to the sideways world and island sinking. But I just can't reconcile the fact that the island was sunk in 2004, yet is clearly not sunk in 2007. In my theory, something would have had to have happened between 1977 and 2004 to make that happen (again, very possibly a volcanic eruption?). Which for me, at this red hot moment anyways, is easier to swallow than the former viewpoint.

Here's a totally wild thought: Wouldn't it be trippy if 2007 Island Losties had to go back to the Incident timeline in order to prevent themselves from detonating Jughead!

horseman said...

And what is it with the car crashes? Sure, you can blame Toyota for Dogen's, but the rest? There must be some significance. Smokey = Christine? Anyway, Lostpedia has a list. Here are some:

-Kate got caught by the cops in Australia because of a car accident
-Claire never got over the guilt she felt for putting her mom in a coma with her car accident
-John's mother was thrown into an early labor when she was hit by a car
-Nadia was killed by a car
-Shannon's father was killed in a car accident
-Jack met his wife as a result of that same car accident
-Dogen almost lost his son in a car accident
-Juliet's ex-husband was killed by a bus
-Jack caused an accident on the bridge when he tried to jump off
-Hurley ran over lots of 0thers with the van and we saw him crash his car
-Michael tried to kill himself in a car accident

davidsalako said...

Sawyer made the time travel paradox comment in the season 5 finale. It was while he and Jack were having their "private talk" in the jungle on Jack's mission to detonate Jughead.

The time traveling bunny (i.e. the white rabbit) incident was on the video in the Orchid station while Ben and Locke were there. I think that was the season 4 finale.

davidsalako said...

horseman...that IS a lot of car accidents!
Maybe Jacob and MIB lost someone in a similar type of accident.
I don't think they are the same person though i.e. Jacob and MIB. I used to think that but now I fell that they are related somehow, possibly father and son or brother and brother or maybe even cousins!

Glenn R. said...

It's official: AnaLucia will officially be back for one or more episodes.

Now, if we can just get my favorite character back: Mr. Eko!

http://tv.ign.com/articles/107/1074455p1.html

Anonymous said...

Greetings:

Enjoying your blog and the great recaps.

My theory is instead of the obvious good against evil it has to do with fractions within the same faith'
especially between the Old and New Testaments, Old Testament portrays God as cruel and merciless, completely at odds with Jesus' teachings of the New Testament. So I googled and will paste the first hit which does seem
to parallel recent events on Lost:
from; www.gotquestions.org/difference-old-new-testaments.html

Question: "Old Testament vs. New Testament - What are the differences?"

Answer: The Old Testament lays the foundation for the teachings and events found in the New Testament. The Bible is a progressive revelation. If you skip the first half of any good book and try to finish it, you will have a hard time understanding the characters, the plot, and the ending. In the same way, the New Testament is only completely understood when it is seen as a fulfillment of the events, characters, laws, sacrificial system, covenants, and promises of the Old Testament.

If we only had the New Testament, we would come to the gospels and not know why the Jews were looking for a Messiah (a Savior King). Without the Old Testament, we would not understand why this Messiah was coming (see Isaiah 53), and we would not have been able to identify Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah through the many detailed prophecies that were given concerning Him, e.g., His birthplace (Micah 5:2); His manner of death (Psalm 22, especially vv. 1, 7-8, 14-18; Psalm 69:21), His resurrection (Psalm 16:10), and many more details of His ministry (Isaiah 52:19, 9:2).

Without the Old Testament, we would not understand the Jewish customs that are mentioned in passing in the New Testament. We would not understand the perversions that the Pharisees had made to God's law as they added their traditions to it. We would not understand why Jesus was so upset as He cleansed the temple courtyard***. We would not understand that we can make use of the same wisdom that Christ used in His many replies to His adversaries.

What do you think?

Andres Miguel Cervantes said...

man, this blog is great! This show is great! I wish I would have gotten into this show from first season on, and not been such an elite-est jerk. Now that I've been watching it for the past few seasons I am blown away at this shows mere scope, and abundant storyline. These guys are brilliant creative minds working to create what I feel is one of the greatest scif-fi masterpieces ever!

this show reminds me of many of Phillip K. Dick's sci-fi novels. One in particular discusses gods being banished to other realms due to there interference in the advancement of human morality(apathy/cynicism).

Trent Frazier said...

Hey Mike --
Just two comments:

1) I believe that Jughead detonated back when Charles Widmore was on the island as a young man, sinking the island and killing everyone who was there, resulting in the "flash-sideways" reality.

2) Yep, it just happened to be raining here in Hawaii that day.

Peter said...

Hey Mike, great recap again. Aint got a chance recently to catch up on all the comments, their coming in like crazy these days!
There was something you mentioned in your blog that got me to thinking.(not sure if its been touched on in the comments)

It was when you mentioned Jacob being their when Nadi got hit by the car, as in Jacob played a part in killing her to turn Sayids focus away from her and onto a path of revenge against anyone associated with Widmore, and ultimatly back to the island.

Got me thinking about when Shannon got killed, I was recently re-watchin earlier seasons. Walt was appearing to Sayid and Shannon that caused her to run off, and at the same time Anna Lucia and the rest heard the whispering and were on edge. End result Shannon was shot and killed. It seems if there were other powers at be that wanted Shannon dead. Perhaps this was MIB early attempt to get Sayid on his side against the others and maybe has something to do with Sayid being a candidite. MIB obviously wants the others in the temple dead and after Shannon was murdered Sayid really had it in for them.

Not sure if Im making sense here or if its clear what Im getting at!

Oh ye, best line of the blog "Frank says that they'll catch up later (but in a cool funny way that only Lapidus can pull off!)" LOL

Mike V. said...

Yikes, lots of insomniacs on here last night! lol Yeah yeah, I know...whole world...different time zones!

Glenn, I'm with you that it might not be the epilogue....and i think the mirrors/reflections do signify something (although when rewatching i didn't sense anything "OFF" in the reflection of Sayid)....but Darlton specifically state that both realities are REALITY...whatever that means!! I think that is what you're saying too though... i'm glad i converted someone to my overconfident opinion that will most likely turn out to be false! LOL It is always nice to hear those words though "you're right" LOL

ahhh very good point about the volcano! They made a very big point of bringing that up in season 3 as well...you would think it would tie in! And it just happened to be during DHARMA times that it was brought up.....and we did see the DHARMA stuff on the underwater island. Hmmmm I might like it! Not that volcanoes can sink an island but hey whatever! lol

Hmmm...do you think that's what Darlton meant by the "WATER" comment on the finale? interesting... going back the INCIDENT comment....good times! No chance in hell they'll do it but I like it! very back to the futureish (or the past!)

Horseman...you can add on Anthony cooper's car accident and mysteriously waking up on the island!

As for the relation to Jacob and MIB....back after season 5 many were calling MIB Esau....i forget my bible...were they brothers or cousins? lol

Glenn again! Oh boy...lots of people will be thrilled with A.L. coming back! lol

Anonymous on Old vs. New testament....definitely an interesting thought...and I think we know that they do have a lot of biblical motifs in the show. There are definitely some interesting parallels there in what you referenced!

Thanks Andres! Glad you came around on LOST....i watched from the beginning but definitely did it under the pressure of missing out on the EVENT that ABC hyped it to be. I didn't want to give in...but then I realized it was MUCH MORE than ABC hyped it to be!

Trent - I like jughead detonating in 1954 because the LOSTIES never would have been there....makes sense. Here's the thing though.....DHARMAVILLE was on the underwater Island and the statue was destroyed (still don't know when that happened)....so it suggests at least 70's maybe after. And Jorge mentioned that on his blog too...they filmed ouside temple and inside temple on 2 different islands and one of them it's always raining lol

gonna post...then PETER's comment and MY OWN comment...then i gotta get to work (late again..ugh)

Mike V. said...

very interesting on Shannon's death Sayid! He is after all a LADIES' Man but with an ability to cause much harm or death to people. A very worthy ally for the MIB. It definitely could be. Of course, in season 2 they blamed it on fear of THE OTHERS. But did THE OTHERS really make Walt appear? And how would MIB portray WALT when he wasn't dead? Still don't understand all of the Walt stuff! we need answers!

thanks for the props on the blog line! It came out of me being lazy and again...late for work so I didn't look up the line! lol

Okay, so on my rewatch, I noticed something that others commented on but not in detail. It was asked why Ilana knows so much about the Island, the Temple, etc.... I'll take it one further....she asked Miles for the location of ALL of the CANDIDATES. She said where is Shephard, Reyes, Ford, Jarrah......did she ask for Kwon? Because that would indicate that Sun is NOT the candidate. hmmm Anyway....I guess this was part of Jacob's instructions off island when she was in the hospital. I sure hope we get that story....but again I don't know how they'd distinguish between FLASHBACK or FLASHSIDEWAYS. yikes!

Mike V. said...

btw...peter..sorry for calling you Sayid! LOL Not sure what I was trying to say there!

Mike V. said...

couple of Ausiello LOST tidbits here if you missed it. Semi-spoilery on when certain answers might be coming on LOVE TRIANGLES and RICHARD....but not ACTUAL answers lol


Ausiello Files

Here's another article on Rodriguez returning as well:



Michelle Rodriguez

Mike V. said...

Just realized that the "BLOG DESCRIPTION" at the top of the page has been missing 42 from the numbers for God knows how long! I'm so ashamed! What would Douglas Adams think of me now? :-( LOL

I know it was there for awhile so I must have messed with it at some point and deleted it. WHOOPS!

Anyway...don't mind me...back to our regularly scheduled commenting!

BTW..ESPN's Bill Simmons (The Sports Guy) who has a fantastic podcast, happens to be talking about LOST in part 2 of his latest entry. Check out my Tweet for the link..or download it on iTunes!

davidsalako said...

Re-watched "Sundown" last night and noticed that the number 2 seemed to pop up a lot.
2 hours for Sayid's "death", 2 hours ago that Sayid put his nephew and niece to bed when Nadia comes home, 2 minutes was the amount of time Lennon gave for Kate to talk to Claire.
Not sure that it means anything?!
Plus, I didn't see Cindy, Zach and Emma with Flocke. There was a kid in the crowd but not clearly shown as Zach or Emma. Again, not sure that it means anything?!

Mike V. said...

David..I thought Lennon said she had 5 minutes? 2 makes more sense because that's probably what the length was like...then again Klugh told Michael he had 3 minutes to talk to Walt (and it was even the name of the episode)...and the scene was less than a minute! LOL


I didn't see cindy and kids at the end either...but they definitely left the temple...we see them walk out the door after telling Lennon she can't risk it.

as for the #2....(heh heh... number two) I don't know...i think we have enough numbers to worry about on this show! LOL

Jenn said...

In the enhanced version of Lighthouse on Wednesday, one of the pop ups said that Christian drank himself to death in Australia. I remember someone asking about the cause of his death last week and just thought I would mention it.

And Mike - I would LOVE if you did an ultimate rewatch sometime down the road. I participated in the rewatch this summer and was completely excited about it, but most of the bloggers dropped out by the end of season 1 and I pretty much ended up rewatching myself. I would love to hear your thoughts about each episode in light of the revelations we get at the end, the questions that were never answered, how your theory at the time of the original airing compares to the real answer, etc.

davidsalako said...

Maybe they were hinting at the whole duality theme that runs through the entire show and the balancing scales? With the #2 I mean.

Mike V. said...

They might have been David...good point!

Jenn...yeah that's what the enhanced LOST says and in WHITE RABBIT they say it was heart failure or something. But I always had just thought there was more to it. And it could be one of those things like many of us have done with other things...where I just looked TOO MUCH into it. So we'll see! lol

As for the ultimate rewatch...it would be awesome....i did my own rewatch as well from July to December...it was awesome! But I really didn't feel there was too much to comment on that hadn't been commented on before. So that's why I just did my "23 Mysteries" post afterwards instead. But maybe whenever I get around to a rewatch once everything is done...i can document it. But I just don't know when I'll get the time to do all of that! lol

davidsalako said...

Hopefully Cindy, Zach and Emma are not with Flocke's trancelike Others and have fled into the jungle to go meet up with Jack and Hurley somehow!

Anonymous said...

I think that the sideways timeline is just an alternate reality. Whether the show ends with just the sideways timeline remaining or both, I don't know, but I don't think there is going to be other timelines introduced.

They are trying to wrap up Lost and give us some answers, there are too few episodes left to introduce another timeline and have it make some kind of sense to us. After all, they are still developing the sideways timeline and have already spent 6 episodes on it. I don't know about the rest of you, but it isn't clear cut as to what is happening yet, so my point is that they will use several more if not all the remaining episodes finishing explaining sideways land.

Yes, a volcano can sink an island. The hot molten rock (lava) that explodes out of the volcano can leave a "dead" spot. If this dead spot is close enough or directly under an island, then it can sink.

Just to recap, I think the sideways timeline will be the ending timeline for our characters. I know it is a tv show, but I don't see how they can continue to have dual timelines and not reconcile them. I think the point of the sideways timeline is to show that these characters were meant to be in each others lives.

Now this might seem a little contradictory, but I do think the writers might leave open the possibility for endless timelines to exist. I just don't think they have the time, etc. to introduce another one.

One way they can show that an infinite number of timelines exist is by showing Richard in various timelines without showing the losties in these timelines. This could be a "simple" explanation of why he doesn't age.

A while back people were talking about mass accelerators on this blog and well I don't know if they will still come into play, but it is one way to create two or more identical items from the original.

Anonymous said...

Mike, I noticed the 42 had been missing since the beginning of this season. I just figured that one of your other resources had given you a good reason why it was no longer important and/or that it had somehow done you wrong causing it to go "lost", lol.

Weasel said...

Yes it was 2 minutes that they gave Kate to talk to Claire

Mike, good job on the guess of Usual Suspects (next hint was going to be "roll")... although, anon actually tipped you off :)

Mike V. said...

always a possibility David! (with cindy and the crew)

last anonymous...funny with the 42 stuff! LOL That number would never do me wrong!

So longer anonymous: Well I agree that there are only 2 timelines at play but I don't agree with using the word "ALTERNATE" only because neither do Damon and Carlton... But I and they agree that the timelines will intersect by the end. I'm still not sure about it being the "EPILOGUE" or End State. It's definitely in the realm of possibilities, but I'm still thinking it's going to go a different way. Good to know that the volcano can sink the island. I really am leaning towards that now! Especially since they made such a point of bringing it up in season 3. How it all plays out with the 2 timelines? NO IDEA. but can't wait to find out!

Mike V. said...

Oh yeah...i'm guessing that hint was definitely intentional...there is no way that was coincidence.........or was it????


BOOOM LOST!!!!

davidsalako said...

Did anyone else think it strange that if Juliet detonated Jughead (I don't believe that she did BTW) how come Kate ends up all the way over on a tree branch?
Jack and Sawyer are lying in the grass a lot closer to the well shaft and Juliet who is lying right next to the core is pretty much in the same banged up state and position she was in before it supposedly went off.
The time traveling white flash seemed identical to the other donkey wheel triggered island time traveling white flashes.
Any thoughts?

Anonymous said...

Mike, Outstanding job with the site. First-time poster; just found the site a couple weeks ago.

Is the wheel in the lighthouse more than just a connection of the names to the numbers, but also to the factors of the Valenzetti equation? When all the factors are eliminated (ie, names crossed off), thus will end life as we know it. Since it appears Jacob and MIB (there must be a significant reason as to why his name is not used) have been playing this “game” for centuries, the names on the wheel might represent family lines, not just individuals. Furthermore, it would seem Jacob is the one trying to get to the end (“It only ends once; everything else is progress”). No babies on the island would be a way to prevent propagation of a family line once that individual is brought to the island. Of course this would all imply that if Smokey is on the opposite side (killing Jacob is a strong indication that he is), he favors continuing the human race. Then why all the killing? (don't know)

Since the DI was looking into how to influence one or more of the human/environmental factors in the V equation to prolong human existence, maybe the detonation of the bomb did just that? Thus, we have the alternate (sideways) timeline where Jack has a son, etc. Maybe when Smokey “evaluated” Juliet and let her live (season 3), he saw that she would play an important role in changing the future by detonating the bomb.

Who started the “game” and set the rules? How were the names on the wheel selected? How did Smokey come to be (fire? is that why he can't cross over ash)? Why does Hurley see ghosts? What does any of this have to do with donkey wheels and infection, Egyptian hieroglyphics and polar bear skeletons in the desert? Not sure, but hope to find out.

Bill [in PA]

Annemarie said...

Mike, thank you for the hours of your life you devote to this blog! Its fantastic. I only discovered it after the 1st episode this season. I live in Ireland so I have to keep myself from looking at the blog on a Wednesday/Thursday as it doesn't air here until Thursday night lol!

Glen I love your theory about Sideways reality. I can really buy into that.

Penner - Your early comment about Sun & Jin & making you think of "Adam & Eve. I also have a feeling it could be them, especially since we were told that once we find out who adam & eve are, we'll know Darlton knew the whole story from the start
for example. Sun & Jin all the way through the 6 seasons have been struggling to be together, it would be a lovely end to see them together for eternity.

Although, i'm beggining to think I might be wrong, as for it to be any of the oceanic survivors would involve time travel again.

Would love to see all the losties back together as a team as their normal selves. Not keen on clare as she is just now.

Also,

Juliet as David's mum!

Saywer & Kate together at the end!

Oh & neither Jacob or MIB will win out, the losties will come together to do the right thing!

Anonymous said...

TTP (Third Time Poster)


Great posts as always. Mike… I only became familiar with Lost a few months ago when my brother gave me his DVDs; your blog, along with Lostpedia, have been indispensable in educating me about all things Lost. Also, both my eight and seven year old sons read your postings. I must say, they were both very disappointed when you found out that Lenny’s last name was not Wallace – ha ha, I had to take them out for ice cream just to make them feel happier.

Before I get into my musings, I have some questions. In season one, Shannon shoots Locke at close range, did the bullet actually hit Locke’s head and bounce off - just like the bullets bounce off him this season; or did the bullet just graze him???– what is the “official” story on this?

Also, doesn’t Smokey sound a lot like the original Godzilla???


Sundown

I really do enjoy the multitude of sci-fi and biblical references the writers throw at us, but please, NO ZOMBIE ARMIES !!!!! - I have to do some heavy editing on this episode so my kids can watch. The last scene of the episode reminded me of the last scene of Full Metal Jacket, when they were all singing the Mickey Mouse Song.

My favorite scene was Jin at the restaurant. I just knew he would show up in a restaurant in the parallel universe. The big mystery for me is to try to figure out if that was a Korean restaurant he was brought too. Wouldn’t it be funny if Keamy was wearing a bullet- proof vest – would not be surprised to see Keamy sneak up behind Sayid at some point.


Long Live Keamy!!!!

Trent Frazier said...

Okay, I apologize because this doesn't pertain to this week's episode, but I HAD to share this with people who could appreciate it. I live in Honolulu and work at a restaurant, and today actor Mark Pellegrino came in and had breakfast. Yes, JACOB was in the house!!! He was very polite, but kept to himself and didn't make conversation. It's so strange how a part of my brain truly believes in the "Lost" universe. As he left, he told me "I left the money on the table." (I'm the cashier.) I thanked him, but there was still something in me that wanted to find some deeper meaning or hidden message in what he said. I almost felt sorry for the actor, because everyone must now be reacting to him as Jacob, and not as who he really is. On the other hand, he's getting paid a lot of money to shoot a series in Hawaii, so I don't pity him that much. Still, it was a slightly surreal encounter.

Anonymous said...

Great blog again mike!!!
i did have a theory of sorts awhile ago, but, i have forgotten it now, so nevermind! lol(its too late for me, and too much reading!)maybe i will remember tomorrow and post.

and i also just wanted to say:trent, that sounds amazing!!! i think i would be too awed to even say anything to him! lol.

BonJoeV said...

A little off track, but there was a song in the '60's by a band named "The Standells" called "Sometimes Good Guys Don't Wear White". I actually found a poor video of it on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C3WVzPy4cw

The song has a bit of the "Dharma Lady" feel to it . . .

Mike V. said...

David...definitely still wondering why Kate is in the tree at the beginning of the season....as Jin mentioned he knows the experience they went through was time travel....so I think they all moved through time in the relative location to where they were at in 1977....but why Kate is in the tree? no idea...maybe the bomb did blow and she was in mid air??? lol

Bill, thanks for the props! And might I say it's a mighty fine state your from...since I am too! lol Good point on the FAMILY LINES comment about the numbers...and very interesting tying it into the no babies thing...never thought of it that way! I hope we find out the answers to your questions as well...they all seem pretty key to understanding the show!

Annemarie...you're welcome and THANK YOU for reading! Wow...it's crazy to think people from all over the world are reading this thing. I'm glad you decided to drop in this season! definitely on board with your last comment! the LOSTIES have to work together by the end...whether that's supporting one side or the other...or NEITHER!

(BTW...just watched a video podcast on itunes with DARLTON and AGAIN they stressed that season 6 is the battle between GOOD and EVIL. Just sayin...)

TTP...I'm sorry that I traumatized your kids but I'm thrilled that your whole family is into the blog! Can't believe you'd utter this blog in the same breath as LOSTpedia..but I appreciate it! I think the bullet just grazed Locke in season 1... Good question though when comparing it to this season! lol Can't comment on the Godzilla thing as I don't think i have ever seen the original! I think anything SEEMING like Zombies right now are not really that. They have always joked on their podcast about a zombie season 7....so I don't think they'd ever throw ACTUAL zombies at us. something else is going on...i just hope we can all buy into it when we find out what it is! And i had the same thought on Keamy in the blog! We'll see!

Trent...that's awesome that you met Jacob! I agree..i would have been the same way and probably wouldn't have brought up LOST to him. Maybe DEXTER though lol j/k And thanks anonymous for the props as well!

UJ! Thanks for throwing the youtube link on there (it actually didn't work for me but I looked up the song on there and found it)....pretty funny and possibly very fitting for this final season with Jacob.... But come on....DHARMA LADY is an instant classic and nothing can compare! :-)

plumbarius said...

Maybe there wasn't a tree in 1977 when she fell/landed. Kate could have been in the exact spot where a tree would grow and behold, 30 years later, she's off the ground!

BTW...watching Celts/76ers last night and wouldn't you know, I saw Cindy in another commercial...I think that's at least 6 ads I have noticed her in since the season started. I'm beginning to feel like a stalker :-) LOL

Weasel said...

@PA Bill: Very good theory on the family lines being what the names represent...

That is all

Glenn R. said...

Someone suggested to me that in season 1, we saw each character’s back story (as flashbacks), and those back stories informed & motivated their on-island decisions. Now in a reversal in the final season, we are seeing how their on-island experiences are informing their “reincarnated” (or whatever you want to call it) selves in Sideways Reality. In other words, our Lost character's on-island choices will determine how much redemption they experience in Sidewaysland.

Interesting thought.

davidsalako said...

@ Glenn R. - I have been thinking the same thing, almost like some of the Alternate 2004 LOSTIES are having "flash forwards" of the original timeline LOSTIES experiences in a sense.

David said...

Okay, I think I might've managed about 1/3 of the comments here...holy crap you are getting some comments in this final season Mike! I remember the days when there were only about 40 comments per blog! Great Stuff...a testiment to your recapping, no doubt!

If this has already been suggested in this blog or the last few, I apologise...But the names that were on the wall in the cave that MIB took Sawyer to seem to be being recruited by MIB himself, not Jacob! Okay, so we don't know about Jin yet but Sayid (even though he was dead but his name wasn't crossed off!)certainly has been converted, Sawyer is certainly on MIB's side, as it were...Locke is dead and was crossed off but maybe the whole idea of taking sides is linked to this; Floke, Kwon, Ford, Reyes, Jarrah and Shephard being one side, good or evil, we'll see and then the rest are the other side. Maybe it wasn't Jacob's wall of names but MIB's!

Mike V. said...

Plumbarius...i've been seeing the ads too...she must love when she gets those callbacks to LOST! lol And you could be totally right with the tree.

Definitely possible Glenn/David S.... seems like that would all go along with the Epilogue theory. I think while it's fun to speculate that this is what's going on....to me it's kinda like in season 1 it was fun to speculate it was purgatory..... The reason I relate it to that is because we jumped on the purgatory bandwagon REALLY quickly because all of the facts seemed to be fitting initially. Eventually, the producers dismissed it and stuff that happened on the show kind of dismissed it too. I think that's kind of what is going to happen with the "EPILOGUE THEORY" Stuff is going to happen in this sideways realm and island realm that will "ENLIGHTEN US" further to what is really going on and then we'll laugh at the days when we thought they were trying to wrap the show up in a nice tidy package by showing us the END STATE right from the beginning of season 6. It's definitely still possible, and I don't know if I'd be upset if they did it.....but I just think the LOST writers are more clever than that and they wouldn't let us figure out what was going on right from the beginning of the final season....you know what i mean? And in no way am I suggesting that we're not clever! LOL I just think the writers are better at leaving us in the dark for longer!

Okay...other David! (from yesteryear!) Yeah...the comments are out of control. I think a lot of things attribute to it....more publicity on Gather, Twitter, Google (just type in lost blog and see what happens).... I'm glad people get a lot out of my recapping but it's the community here that I think keeps people coming back!

As for your comment about the show...yeah there has been back and forth to if the cave was MIB's and not Jacob's...definitely could be. But I still argue that if the cave was Jacob's...how would Sayid's get crossed off?? If Jacob was the ones crossing off names on the lighthouse and/or the caves...i would think that the crossing would stop once he died. Then again, why would MIB bring up to Sawyer that he could hope his name gets crossed off? But yeah...it's possible that both could be keeping lists. We'll see!

Great conversation as always folks! Only 2 days until a new episode!

David said...

The fact that Flocke went over and crossed out Locke's name suggests that it isn't Jacob's list because why would he bother with something that was Jacob's, ie nothing to do with him. Also, he knew exactly what names were left...if we are to believe that he has been trapped in the Black Smoke for however long then how could he know where the list was up to...unless he was keeping it himself...if you see what I am getting at? I might have misinterpreted the whole thing, I don't know.

Mike V. said...

Yeah I'm following David. It could be! Or he could have been crossing off locke's name to emphasize a point lol

btw speaking of a lost encyclopedia, looks like darlton are going to assist in publishing one!! It comes out 8/24 the same day as season 6 on DVD/blu!!

We may have something to blog about after all!

http://bit.ly/aNAw11

davidsalako said...

An OFFICIAL LOST encyclopedia - an absolute must have!
There is my "must have" for gift giving season 2010.
LOL!

Annemarie said...

Have you all seen the new Alice in Wonderland movie? If you like LOST you'll enjoy the movie. ;)

Anonymous said...

Jacob and Esau were brothers in the Old Testament. Jacob betrayed Esau by stealing his blessing and birthright from dad (Isaac) and then fled because Esau was very mad! They made up years later though :)

Glenn R. said...

A Lost Encyclo! Most awesome news. My hope is that it will fill in some of the gaps that don't get filled in over the course of the season!

Hey, it's even listed on Amazon for pre-order already!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0756665949

Mike V. said...

Yep, it's already on my amazon wish list! LOL That's why I brought up the encyclopedia btw....we had been chatting over the past few blogs about how there is no way they'll answer everything....and then that there were interviews with DARLTON where they said that they would never do an encyclopedia because they think people would only want it to see that they had a plan from the beginning. But...now here we are with an encyclopedia coming out 3 months after the show ends! And yeah...hopefully they will answer some of those mysteries that they just can't get to....like the DHARMA Food Drops and stuff like that. I would be absolutely on board with that!

Anonymous with the Esau/Jacob info...thanks! I knew it was a bro or cousin relationship..just couldn't remember! lol

Mike V. said...

Annemarie..didn't catch Alice yet...I actually saw that the critics weren't big fans, but I may still get around to it. I'm sure the 3D would be pretty spectacular!

Glenn R. said...

@davidsalako, I watched those two scenes you mentioned in relation to my theory about the Sideways reality... the first one about Sawyer's comments about preventing his father from pulling the trigger in 1977, and the second about the #15 Bunny!

As for Sawyer's comments, yes, that would fit perfectly into my view of Sideways. As for whether it supports it or not, I could take it either way. Either as an intentional clue planted by the writers. Or, I could also take it as merely a story devised to make their point about "What's done is done."

And as for the #15 Bunny, I truly have no idea. I'm not sure I fully understand how you connected that to my idea. Are you suggesting that the bunny problem will be revisited in that finale scene I suggested, about getting the third view of the Incident from Pierre Chang or someone else in 1977?

Glenn R. said...

Yea, Mike, I hear you about the Epilogue Theory being perhaps too simple. I'm not advocating for that theory anymore, but I do find it all very plausible. And I found the idea that there could be a reverse "flashforward" of sorts, rooted in the choices of the characters on the island was intriguing. But as you say, perhaps too plausible.

But for now, I'm going to stick to my theory that the changes in the Sideways characters came about as a result of Daniel being right about the variables, and thus the Jughead explosion "worked", but only for their young 1977 selves (while they themselves were blasted back to their original on-island reality in 2007). And the current Sideways characters are the 1977 younger selves of our Lost characters in a "changed reality."

And I am now officially adding into the theory the info from Jorge's podcast about Sayid's reflection being "off" in some way. To me, this suggests that there is something very wrong with Sideways reality that must be made right somehow. So while Daniel and Jack were (half) right back in 77 about the variables, they also got more than they bargained for -- some sort of tainted reality in Sideways.

Mike V. said...

yeah i'm not trying to dismiss the theories or anything...i am just saying I think the writers have a few more tricks up their sleeves that we aren't even thinking of yet lol

yeah i think the whole MIRROR/Reflection thing is something we need to keep in mind during all of this. And it would be silly if the events that concluded season 5 didn't play some part in all of this. Right now I'm just thrilled not to know what's going on! LOL

Glenn R. said...

So Mike, how many of the people posting here have been with you since the beginning?

Are any of the posters actually real-world friends of yours?

It would be cool to have some sort of introductions for us newbies to your blog. Don't know if that's normal blog protocol, but I would sure enjoy it.

Even something as simple as where you live, and how you got into Lost?

As for me, I live in Seattle, and blame my son for getting me into Lost. He would go over to his friend's house every Wednesday evening, and kept telling me Lost was the undisputed best show on tv. He and I had read Lord of the Rings and Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series together and thoroughly enjoyed huge new fantastic, complex worlds. Finally, two Christmas' ago, I bought Season 1 and of course, got LOST in my life for about six weeks as I caught the entire series up until the Season 5 opener.

btw, he and I have talked about how the only book world we have ever come across that have the complexity, and the detective story quality, and the immense depth of story is the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. In some ways, it is the book equivalent of Lost, only multiplied to about the 5th power (10,000 pages and counting!) Sadly, the author died right before writing the FINAL BOOK in the series. But, he left all his notes and some writings behind and it's being completed by another author. Has anyone in here read that series?

Mike V. said...

Wow Glenn that is WAY too personal! LOL Just kidding. Here's the quick recap on how the blog started....season 1 - I refused to watch this new Gilligan's Island meets Survivor show that ABC was totally hyping up. This was before dual tuner DVRs and I wasn't going to miss Smallville to watch LOST. But enough people I knew were planning to watch it so I decided to TAPE it on my VCR. I did watch and liked it and decided to stick around...each episode that aired I got more hooked! Yes...WALKABOUT was huge in getting me hooked but I think the 1-2 punch of Raised By Another and All the Best Cowboys really got me....Once I knew there were OTHERS on the Island and one was living amongst them? I saw this show was something special.

Anyway...I noticed they'd drop clues in episodes here and there and I would be scavenging message boards for clues...when I'd talk to people the next day about it I found out that they were not catching these things...so I started emailing people with lists of things that I found out about the episodes...season 2 is when things really got crazy though because we were getting more into the whole mythology of the show. And my rambling emails were getting longer and longer...before I knew it I had a lengthy distribution list and posting it on my work email was getting dangerous LOL So i looked into blogging and started the LOST and Idol blogs (i had been recapping Idol for awhile as well)....Instead of sending an email out I'd post in on the blog and email my dist. list the Blog....people were a little shy in posting comments on there so they'd still email me (as they still do today! LOL) throughout season 2 and most of season 3 there were some people that started posting more. But near the end of season 3 (THE BRIG)...one of my links i posted on the web caught fire and people started coming from all over the place! There are some people that post that have been around for years...I don't want to call out names for fear I'd forget somebody but they are free to call themselves out and when they started posting! LOL As for my real world friends and family...yeah they're still reading and some read the comments...and an occassional post. (BonJoeV, who posted recently, is family....Shanna is my wife but I don't think she hasn't posted this season). I live just outside of Philadelphia. And I think that's about all I have to say! I appreciate all the dedication Friends, Family, Coworkers and the WORLD-WIDE LOSTIES have shown to the blog and I'm still getting a little emotional that it's all ending soon! Hopefully the community will still check in from time to time!

Never heard about that book series Glenn, maybe I'll check it out!

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 254   Newer› Newest»