Wednesday, April 21, 2010

LOST: Season 6 Episode 13 - The Last Recruit

Hello LOSTIES!!!  Well that was one crazy episode wasn't it?!  There was so much movement on the Island and Sideways it was almost tough to keep track of it all.  I think we spent time with just about every character (except the Island squad of Ben, Richard and Miles) everyone is in a different location than they were an episode ago.  AND Finally, we get a HUGE answer that we have been wondering about since season 1 episode 5 and a HUGE reunion that we have been waiting for since season 4!  For that alone, this episode gets a major WOW rating from me.  Hurley comedy and Sawyer nicknames get the next WOW!   And just me being on eggshells the whole episode waiting for something awful to happen....WOW!!   We have 2 weeks to ponder where things are going as we head for a quick break next week.  So allow me to get the ball rolling here!

The Last Recruit - Was there any doubt who this was referring to?  Maybe, and I'm sure people will try to argue this but it was most certainly Jack Shephard.  (Executive Producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse who confirmed it on their podcast this past week).  All of our LOSTIES were back in one place again  at least for a few minutes.  We finally got the scenes we have been waiting to see for a long time.  Jack and Flocke, Jack and Claire.  Eventually, the conflict with Widmore's crew escalates sending the Flocke and the LOSTIES into action.   In Sideways Land, there is no centric character as we revisit each of our SIDEWAYS stories as they start to merge into one another!  Let's dive in and see where the story takes us!

Flash Sideways
When we last left our SLOSTIES (new word, FUN!) things were starting to set into motion.  Sayid shot some people, freed Jin, Jin killed some people, and pregnant Sun got shot.  Jack overcame his daddy issues to bond with his son David.  Kate was running from the law and ran right into the hands of Officer James Ford.  Claire was supposedly contemplating on keeping her unborn child Aaron.  Oh right, and Desmond ran over Locke with his car.   Granted, Desmond got Libby and Hurley together to jog some memories too but we're not focusing any time there this week.   We continue the rest of these stories now. 

Heading to the Hospital
  • Ben is in the ambulance with Locke giving the paramedics as much information as he can.   It turns out that wheelchair may have saved John's life. 

  • Ben said he would like to report the information he received on the hit and run driver, but he'll have to wait to get to the hospital to talk to authorities.  
  • The paramedic guy asked Ben if there is anyone they can contact for John. Ben didn't know.  At this point Lock blurts out "Helen Norwood.  I was gonna marry her."  To which Ben responds that he still will because he's going to be okay. 

  • Of course, for a split second, I pondered the idea that maybe when Locke got hit he switched places and the ISLAND John Locke (not Flocke...actually John Locke) took his place.  Because as we know, John Locke was planning to propose to Helen.  He "WAS" going to marry her.  But Daddy Cooper ruined his plan yet again.  Just a thought I had going around.  We don't really hear Sideways Locke say anything else this episode, but I thought I'd throw it out there.   
  • Well, he also says his name is John because Ben keeps calling him Mr. Locke.  
  • When the ambulance shows up at the hospital, the camera pans to another vehicle carrying one Sun Paik who was also being brought in on a stretcher. 

  • Oh right, except Sun sees Locke and starts panicking.  She says to Jin, "OH NO, IT'S HIM!!!  NO NO NO!!!" 

  • Okay, now what on earth does that mean?  Sun and Locke are both in life threatening situations, so are they crossing over with their Island selves?  And could it be true that maybe this sideways locke IS the Man in Black?  Many of us have speculated it at one time or another.  Maybe Sun's blow to the belly is making her see John for what he actually is.  Or, MAYBE she's remembering something from the Island.  Remembering FLOCKE.  Remembering something we have yet to see.  I dunno, it's all pretty vague, but seems very significant.   
  • As many of us have been saying, it is no coincidence that our Sideways Losties are meeting up at the hospital and various other locales.  With so few hours left, I would think they'll start becoming more and more aware.  I actually thought we would see more of it this episode, but alas, they're making us wait a little longer! 
Meanwhile, at the Police Station
  • Sawyer is getting the ultimate satisfaction of grilling Miss Kate Austen.   He reads her file - wanted for arson, assault on a federal officer and murder in the 1st degree. 

  • Sawyer doesn't really buy it that she's a murderer.  Again, Kate claims that she is innocent as she did to Claire.  Of course Sawyer doesn't really plan on doing anything about it, saying she can talk to the feds.
  • What he really wanted to do was bring up how they were both on Oceanic 815 together and how they were on the same elevator.  And he called it FATE.  And of course, just when you're about to think he's gone all LOCKE on us, we totally know he's trying to flirt with Kate.  Ahh good times! 
  • Anyway, just like Kate called out Sawyer on the Island in season 1 on him writing his letter to "Mr. Sawyer" she calls him out again in sideways land.  She figured out that he didn't want anyone to know that he was in Australia which is why he didn't arrest her there.  (I think there were questions about why Sawyer didn't arrest Kate on the blog, and I think this was one of the thoughts we threw out there as a possible reason.  Well, now we know it is why!)   Anyway they're firing shot for shot back and forth and Sawyer is really digging this girl.  
  • Miles interrupts the fun by bringing up a Multiple Homicide at a restaurant including Keamy and 3 people on his payroll.  NOTE: This is confirmation that ol' Keamy did die at the scene.  You never know with him and Mikhail if they're just going to pop back up again! 

  • Miles mentions a Korean woman (Sun) being there and her boyfriend (Jin) witnessing it all but not speaking English.  They got a shot of Sayid leaving the place and figure that's their guy.   Gotta love Miles calling hin a jabroni!  Sawyer acknowledges him as "THE BAD GUY". 

 At the Nadia Household
  • Sayid returns back to the house and tells Nadia that they will be taken care of now.  But he has to flee.  Nadia asks what he did.  He doesn't say but when the police show up she may have a bit of an idea.   Miles shows up at the door and shows his badge.  Sayid tries to slip out the back. 

  • You gotta love that Sawyer caught Sayid by tripping him with a fire hose!  Ahhh good times.  Anyway, they arrest him and that's all we see for now.  




  • So now we have Kate, Sayid, Sawyer and Miles at the police station.  Possibly a visit from Ana Lucia before the show is over.   And of course we have Locke, Sun, Jin and eventually Jack at the Hospital.  Everyone is meeting up!   Of course, there was one hanging thread that I certainly forgot about.
Claire
  • It looks like Claire was still looking into giving up her baby for adoption as she had an appointment with an agency.  Even though Kate had told Claire that she should keep the child, Claire must not be convinced yet.  
  • And of course, who just happens to show up to nudge her in the right direction?  DESMOND!  He is persistent, he is creepy, and he follows her into the elevator.  He said that Claire should have a lawyer present with her when she is signing papers and everything for the adoption.   Naturally, we must report that they took the elevator to floor 15.  Do I even need to tell you why that number is significant?  I'll give you a hint, what number is missing? 4 - 8 - 16 - 23 - 42.   YEP!
  • Somehow, Claire is easily convinced by these folks that she just met.  She gets in a car with Kate who just had a gun to her head merely a couple hours before.   Now she's going with Desmond literally across the hall to get all LAWYERED UP.  Granted, Desmond wasn't going to give up until he got his way.  

  • Anyway, guess who this crazy lawyer is that Desmond was recommending who "owed him a favor"?  It's Ilana!!  And not just any Ilana, but a non-accent Ilana.  She's American!  And she seems to be acquainted with Desmond.  What??  Not even sure if it's worth asking questions at this point in the show.  She is just there, she lives in America and is American and she's a lawyer.  Okay, I'll buy it!   Maybe we'll get more information, maybe we won't.

  • By the way we find out Ilana's last name is Verdansky.  No way of knowing if that was her name in the Island timeline as well.  

  • But the crazy thing is, Ilana recognizes the name Claire Littleton immediately upon hearing it and they have been looking for her.  How I totally forgot about Christian's will is beyond me, but it looks like Desmond did some more digging and found out that Claire and Jack are related.  Did he happen to know the reading of the will would be this day?  And why on earth wouldn't Jack's mother be there for that? 
Jack

  • Jack and his son David show up to the same building that Claire is in.  COINCIDENCE?  On this show?  Of course not.  He's on the phone with his ex-wife/David's mother.  We do not find out again who the mother is, but I'm still banking on Sarah.  

  • Anyway Jack was telling her on the phone that he could probably get David home by like 5pm.  At this, David was shaking his head "no".  Awwww, he wants to spend time with Dad!  Jack then extends their day a couple hours so they can plan on going to dinner.  
  • So as I mentioned, Jack and David were going up for the reading of the will.  Jack was telling David how it's okay to be sad with the whole process.  David told Jack that he was said for HIM.  Awwww again! 
  • So they get upstairs and Ilana introduces herself and then announces the surprise.  They found Claire Littleton!   Then she asks if they believe in Fate.  That's the 2nd time we heard that line tonight.  
  • After the pleasantries were out of the way Jack asks Claire how she knew Christian.  She said that he was her father too.  Jack didn't really know how to process the information and he just started pacing.  Fortunately for him, the phone rang and it was FATE intervening again.  They needed him for an emergency surgery.   Jack tells Claire and crew that they're going to need to reschedule.

  • So, still no memories or connections being made to the Island life.  They're really making us wait on this.  I know I know...we need more near death experiences or LOVE connections!   But at least they're all meeting each other.  This certainly is going to get interesting. 
Back at the Hospital
  • Sun wakes up and Jin is there sleeping. She wakes him up.   Jin catches Sun up on everything.  She's fine and the baby is fine.  It's all over and everything is going to be okay.   Sweet moment, but they get a sweeter moment later! 
  • So anyway, Jack is back at the hospital walking by Jin and Sun's room and has a chat with David who came with him.   More father/son bonding.  "You're grandfather kept a lot of things to himself."  David - "is that where you get it from?"   And then David finishes operation Kiss-Up by wishing his father good luck in the surgery.   WE GET IT!  Jack and David are getting along!   Who am I kidding?  It's still sweet.  Jack's life is all put together and stuff.  Little does he know the whirlwind that he's about to go through.  
  • As he's getting prepped for surgery, Jack receives the information on his patient.  The patient has a pre-existing spinal condition and the dural sac is obliterated (ahh memories of seasons 1, 3 and 5 with the infamous story of Jack ripping the dural sack)
  • He takes a look at the scans and knows exactly what he needs to do. "I got this!" 
  • So Jack gets ready to cut and then happens to look down in a mirror (yes, another mirror!) and sees John Locke is the patient.   Jack seems to recognize him and gets thrown for a loop.  "I think I know this guy."  

And that's it for sideways.  So yeah, every story moved forward but we got absolutely NO resolution.  Does that suggest we'll be revisiting them all again in 2 weeks?  Eh, who knows with this show?  But what we do know is that Jack has run into several people from flight 815 now.  He thought it was bizarre to find Desmond and Charlie at the hospital with him.  Now he's working on John Locke.   I'm sure he will find out that Claire was on that flight too.   Perhaps he will start putting it all together?  And of course, what will happen if he comes into contact with Kate?   Time will tell.   But needless to say, things are definitely going SOMEWHERE in SIDEWAYS!   And of course, they are on the Island too.  So that's up next! 

The Island

Jack and Flocke Finally Meet
We aways love our Jack and Locke scenes, right?  Well the one that kicked off this episode was no different, except that it was totally different!   Because while it was still Matthew Fox talking to Terry O'Quinn, this time it was Jack taking on the Smoke Monster.  And they had plenty of interesting things to discuss!

  • Flocke didn't waste any time when Hurley brought the crew to the camp.  He eyed down Jack and then started walking motioning Jack to come with.  "I was hoping you'd come.  I think we have some catching up to do."   Flocke loves having his one on one conversations.  
  • I love how Jack checks with Hurley to see if it's okay with him talking to Flocke alone.  "It's all you dude. "  

  • Jack and Flocke go into the jungle and find a place to sit on and the discussion begins.  

  • Jack discusses how he looks just like Locke.  Flocke asks if it bothers him.  Jack is more concerned with knowing what this thing is.  Flocke insists that Jack DOES know who he is.  
  • Jack's question #1 "Why John Locke" - And then Flocke starts his tirade again making Locke sound like the most pathetic person ever to exist.  "Because he was stupid enough to believe he had been brought here for a reason. Because he pursued that belief until it got him killed.  And because you were kind enough to bring him back here in a wooden box." 
  • So Jack confirms with Locke that he had to be dead before he could look like him.  Okay so that's all well and good.  We know Smokey takes the form of dead people.  But what it doesn't explain is Isabella (Richard's wife).   Her body wasn't there and Flocke took that form.   Yes, she certainly was dead and he could have known that by scanning Richard.  But couldn't smokey have scanned someone with memories of dead Locke and taken his form?   I guess with Jack being in 1977 and him already appearing to Ben prior to his Smokey scan, maybe it wouldn't have been possible any other way.   But does this make anyone question the intentions of Eloise Hawking?  I know we have discussed that she may have been working with the Man in Black, and in a couple bullets we'll probably need to emphasize a little more how this certainly could be the case. 
  • Jack asks Flocke who else he has taken the form of.  Flocke asks what Jack is really trying to ask. Jack talked about seeing the ghost of his dead father when they first crashed on the Island (And I am thinking "OMG, finally, the answer is coming!  Flocke is going to say it wasn't him, he's gonna do it!")   NOPE, ol' Smokey totally admits that he portrayed Christian Shephard on the Island and in that case he says that he was trying to help Jack find water.  
  • WOW, Well that seems to answer so many of our open questions.  We had been assuming that Christian had appeared as both a Ghost AND as Smokey on the Island.  Now we find out it seemingly was Smokey the whole time.  So then it would assume that it definitely WAS Smokey in the cabin with Locke and Claire.  And it WAS Smokey in the ancient past when Locke was at the donkey wheel.  He had been pushing Locke towards his dream of having purpose and his final act was telling him to find Eloise Hawking.  A woman that would convince Ben and Jack that Locke's body needs to be brought back to the Island.  Now, maybe she was simply trying to help them and Flocke knew she would.   She knew that they needed to recreate the events of the original flight to get back to the Island.  And Jack still needed something of his father's since his body was on the original flight.  I dunno.  But it still makes me think. 
  • Here's the kicker though:  We still have the whole season 4 "off island" scene in "Something Nice Back Home" where Jack is visited by the Ghost of his father at the hospital.  Yes, the smoke alarm goes off so I always thought this was smokey related.  That is, until this year when it seems Smokey is TRAPPED on that Island.   Oh yeah, and how about Christian appearing on the Freighter to tell Michael that he can die now?  That surely wasn't Smokey, right?   How did he get there?    And why on earth/how did Christian change his clothes on the Island?    I'm still convinced there is a Ghost of Christian SOMEWHERE and I totally think Jack and Christian need to have their final scene.   Oh yeah, and where on earth is the body of Christian in sideways land!? 
  • Anyway back to this episode.  Notice Jack mentioned "on the 3rd day" he chased his father.  Before anyone else brings up the religious ties to me, I may as well!  Whew, there have been a lot of them this season! 
  • I wonder if there is any significance to the Man in Black/Smokey leading Jack to the cave where the Adam and Eve skeletons are.  Several of us had speculated that maybe one of these bodies could be that of the Man in Black prior to him turning into what he is now.  "I used to be a man just like you" he said to Sawyer.   He also told Sawyer how he had experienced LOSS before, and I thought that could have something to do with the Eve skeleton.   And that it might all tie back to some Jacob conflict.   Hey, it's still a thought.  Rose and Bernard are still valid options until we see them pop up again! 
  • Anyway, Flocke tells Jack that all he has been ever interested in doing is help Jack LEAVE the Island.  But because Jacob chose him he was trapped on this Island before he even got here.  Now, Jacob is dead and they don't have to be trapped here.  They can get on a plane anytime they want to.   Jack questions Flocke asking why he hasn't left yet.  "Because it has to be all of us."   I gotta say, that man does make a compelling case.  But he also told Jacob he intended to kill all of Jacob's potential successors.  Oh boy. 
  • Jack starts getting all sentimental suggesting that John Locke was the only person that ever believed in this place.  He did everything he could from keeping them from leaving the island.  Flocke says that John Locke wasn't a believer, he was a sucker. 
  • Okay, so they're laying it on real thick now right?   Yeah, we have all come to accept that John Locke was a major pawn in the Man in Black's loophole in attempting to kill Jacob and leave the Island.  But HAVE WE REALLY accepted that Locke is this huge SUCKER?  That everything he ever tried to do led to THIS?  That he was just a pathetic fool who fell for one large manipulative trick?  Do we really believe that this is how the legacy of John Locke, a beloved LOST Character, will be remembered?   I'm starting to have my doubts, ESPECIALLY with Flocke laying on that last comment "He was a sucker."   Maybe the Island still has a plan for John Locke.  And while I yearn for a scene between Jack and Christian, I think I'm still hoping for a big scene between Jack and John Locke.  The John Locke that has experienced everything not the sideways Locke.  Of course, maybe that conversation WILL happen in the Sideways world.   Maybe it will never happen and it is wishful thinking.   But, I just down think Locke is going to go down and out without some purpose! 

Jack and Claire Reunion
As Jack and Flocke were making their way back to the camp, they find out creepy Claire had been following them.  This was another scene we had been waiting for ever since we confirmed that Jack and Claire were related.  Whew, that was way back in season 3.  But it took until the end of season 4 for Jack, in a Flash Forward, to discover that Claire was his sister.  And we never really knew if Claire knew that Jack was her brother.  And now it has taken all the way until season 6 before these 2 were in one place again.  Flocke asks why they she has been following them.   Claire says "because he's my brother."  (there you go, she knows.  I guess Flocke told her)   Then Flocke leaves them so they can chat. 

  • Jack tries to start off by apologizing for abandoning her there.  But she asks if Smokey told him that he was pretending to be their father.  Jack acknowledges.  
  • Claire says she pretty much gave up hoping that he'd actually come back.  But now that he's here, she was glad to see him.   She never had much in the way of family and was happy he was coming with them. 

  • Jack said he hadn't decided he was going with them.  Claire insists that he actually did by letting Flocke talk to him.  (oh boy, here we go again).   Whether he likes it or not, he's "with him now."  That won't be the last time we'll hear that phrase in this episode.  So, it will make us speculate of Jack really IS with Flocke.  But, by the end of the episode I was getting another impression of Jack than him being seduced by "the dark side."  (If we can call Flocke's side the dark side)
  • So, not exactly how we had envisioned this reunion scene going down years ago, but it certainly is interesting.  
The War is ON!
So day breaks and things are about to escalate to the next level.  Before this happens, Sawyer is slyly working his way through the newcomers letting them know the plan to ditch Flocke.   

  • Sawyer goes right to Hurley and tells him the plan to take the sub.  He explains who is eligible to come and we see Kate telling Sun the plan as well.   Jack, Frank, Sun, Sawyer, Kate and Hugo.  That's it.  



  • Hurley asks about Sayid.  Sawyer said that Sayid isn't invited because he has gone over to the dark side.  I love how Hurley challenges Sawyer to a battle of Star Wars knowledge.  "yeah but you can always bring people back from the dark side.  I mean, Anakin?!"   Loved Sawyer's "WHO THE HELL IS ANAKIN?!"  Clearly not a prequel watcher.  Of course, Anakin's name was mentioned in Return of the Jedi too.  But Hurley already mentioned that "the Ewoks sucked dude"    But the plain and simple fact was that (spoiler alert, but if you haven't seen the Star Wars saga now, shame on you!) Luke was able to bring his father back from the dark side after their final battle and when the emperor was about to deal his final blow to Mr. Skywalker.  I think we all have been hoping that they might be able to do something similar with Sayid.  But, I just don't know.  That dude DIED and was dead for 2 hours.  Didn't someone tell us on this show that Dead is Dead before?  Haven't the producers always tell us that?   I'm still so confused by Sayid's status! 
  • Anyway, Sawyer tells Hurley to keep his mouth shut and then Claire rolls up.   I think my favorite line of the night was when Hurley told Claire how great she looked.   GOOD TIMES!!   I believe my exact words were "I am so glad that dude is still alive!"  He really does lighten the dark mood on the show that is always there.  I still have hopes that if anyone can survive to the very end, it will be Hurley! 
  • Jack and Flocke return to camp.  Flocke gives his "It's so nice to have everyone back together again" with his crazy smile.  So true, if it was actually John Locke and not Smokey saying it!  


  • Kate and Jack have their small moment sitting on a log prior to things heating up.  Kate discusses how Sayid is different now.  Jack says "I guess we're all different now."  Well, that was exciting! 

  • Jack catches Kate up on his discussion with Flocke.  Kate asks if he believes him and Jack just wasn't sure yet.   Neither are we Jack, neither are we. 
  • And then, Tina Fey/Sarah Palin/Liz Lemon/Zoe Whoever rolls into town with a walkie talkie. Ooh it's about to get interesting!   Sawyer, as an aside, informs Hurley that that is Widmore's #2.  Did anyone else get a flashback to the first Austin Powers movie? (WHO---DOES---NUMBER 2---- WORK FOR!?!?!?!  Btw, I heard they're making a 4th.  Not sure if I'm excited or dreading it!) 

  • So Zoe tells Flocke that he took something from them and they want it back.  Naturally, she never comes out and says Desmond so it doesn't make the LOSTIES concerned and try to go rescue him.  Convenient storytelling I guess!   Anyway, Flocke denies knowing what she is talking about. 
  • So then Zoe needs to demonstrate what the Widmore cronies are capable of.  They have a fix on Zoe's position and drop some kind of bomb very close by to Camp Flocke!   Where does Widmore get such wonderful toys!?! 
  • Zoe tells Flocke he has until nightfall to return what he took or next time they won't miss.  So does Widmore know something we don't?  Will bombing Flocke kill him?  OR, does Widmore possibly know that Flocke needs these candidates alive to get off of the Island.  Which means Widmore plans to kill them?  I don't think that's it because even the Man in Black said he planned to kill the candidates! Oh well, like I said last week, Explosions are fun! 
  • Zoey gives Flocke the walkie and tells him to call her when they're ready to make the exchange.  After she leaves, we find out what Flocke's stick's purpose became!  Smash that walkie Smokey! 


  • It's time to get our WAR on folks!  Flocke starts rallying the troops.  He definitely is lying to them and Sayid even looks at him starting to speculate that he's lying.  Flocke goes on about how this is happening sooner than expected and that they're claiming that they have stolen something of theirs.   They have forced their hand into confrontation.   So they're going to go to the other Island now and get on that plane.  
  • Flocke has a sidebar with Sawyer.  He has a "fancy" map drawn detailing where Sawyer can pick up a sailboat not far from there and he wants Flocke to pick them up at this docked.   And all of us start wondering - woa, we actually ARE going to see Desmond's sailboat again!?  It is really nice how this show is bringing back a lot of stuff from prior seasons into the fold for the final stretch.  

  • Sawyer wonders why they're all not going together and Flocke says that would slow things down.  Sawyer is able to recruit Kate to go with him.  
  • Flocke takes Sayid aside and while that is happening, Sawyer takes the opportunity to talk to Jack.
  
  • Sawyer says that he has a deal with Widmore and they're not meeting up with Flocke.  He says first chance that Jack gets to double back and take Hurley, Frank and Sun with him.  He says Sayid is a Zombie and Claire is nuts and they're not invited.  She gave up her ticket when she tried to kill Kate.  Jack asks how he's supposed to get them away from Flocke, Sawyer tells him to figure it out.  Loved when Kate asked what they talked about and Sawyer just said "Guy Talk."  Ahhh good times.   Sawyer and Kate head out. 
Sayid and Desmond

  • So Flocke gives Sayid marching orders to go kill Desmond. WHAAAT!?  Sayid actually doesn't appear as monstrous as he has and gives a questioning look towards Flocke.  Flocke tries to reel him back in by asking if Sayid still wants what he asked him for.  (He wants "the woman he loved" it IS awfully suspicious that once again they didn't bring up HER name, almost that it was written to possibly apply to Shannon.  Of course it goes right into a flash sideways with Sayid talking to Nadia at one point, so I dunno)  Anyway, Sayid says YES that he still does want what he asked for.  "Then go do what I said."  WOA

  • Next we see Sayid has made it to the well.   He looks down with his gun pointed.  Desmond still acting "all knowing" about what is going on asks Sayid what "Locke" promised him.  He said he has a right to know if he's going to be shot in cold blood.  Sayid says that he was promised the woman he loves which he had lost.  

  • Desmond asks where she is now.  Sayid says that she is dead.  Desmond asks how he could get her back and Sayid says because Flocke brought HIM back from the dead, so he knows that he can do it.  
  • Desmond asks what he would tell her when she asks how Sayid brought her back.  Oh I dunno, does it matter at this point?  Sayid has already killed many people in the name of getting her back. And he killed many people for Ben after Nadia was killed.  But this does seem to get to Sayid.  


  • And that's all we see.  We never see if Sayid "took care of Desmond" or not.  We do find out what  he tells Flocke though.  Sayid seemed to be taking longer than normal and Flocke went to check on him.   He said he did what Flocke asked.  He said he just shot an unarmed man and he needed a moment.   Flocke isn't convinced but Sayid says that he most certainly killed Desmond and that he should go and check if he likes.  Oldest bluff in the book, right?  And Flocke fell for it?  REALLY!?   But he definitely just disregards it and goes for the boat with Sayid (who lingers back temporarily).  Hmm, was Desmond able to "bring Sayid back" from the dark side?   I guess time will tell. 






Sawyer and the Sailboat
Sawyer and Kate arrive at the sailboat, and it most certainly is The Elizabeth (Libby's boat that she gave to Desmond for the solo race around the world).   Looks like the boat is a little further out than to their liking.   And Sawyer is ready to swim out there.  Kate has her doubts that this whole thing is a good idea.


  • Sawyer hadn't told Kate yet that they weren't going back to get Locke.  He then tells her the plan that he told Jack.  Frank, Sun, Hurley and Jack were meeting up with them.  Of course he couldn't let it go without getting in a nickname for Frank.  Less of a nickname and more of a comparison "That pilot who looks like he stepped off the set of a Burt Reynolds movie."   FANTASTIC!  Don't worry, nicknames are coming! 
  • Kate is concerned that Sawyer didn't say Claire.  Sawyer refused to bring her along.  The Claire that Kate came back for is gone.  Kate said that she promised she would get her back.  "That's before she started drinking Locke's Kool-aid."  Another classic line.  Sawyer thinks it's a bad idea to have that dangerous girl around Aaron.   I guess that was enough to sell her for now.  They swim out to the sailboat and literally like 5 minutes or less of showtime later, the boat is parked and waiting for Jack and crew.  (I checked, it's literally 3 minutes later.  Things that would take a couple episodes in the past now takes 3 minutes!?  Yep, we're at the end folks.)  
Jack Takes Action
So while Sayid is working on Desmond and Sawyer and Kate were going to get the boat, Flocke was leading the people to the rendezvous point.  Jack, meanwhile is planning to assess Claire's craziness.

  • Jack asked Claire how long she's been with Locke. She says ever since they left.  She trusts him because he's the only one that didn't abandon him.   I guess that was enough of a sell to him that she was nuts!  Or he just didn't have time to process it right now. 
  • Meanwhile, Flocke holds up to talk to Sun for a second.  And she is not doing much talking these days (can't speak English, remember?).  Flocke asks Sun where Sayid is and she doesn't talk.  Flocke then asks if he's getting the silent treatment to which Sun gets frustrated and pulls out her notepad claiming that HE did this to her.  We had speculated that Smokey may have somehow taken her voice.  He denies it.  But Sun may have meant more of the fact that she hit her head when running from him.  But in either case, it doesn't matter because she'll be speaking again soon enough.
  • Anyway, Flocke gets concerned and goes to check on Sayid.   This is Jack's call to action as he rounds up the troops.  Frank, Sun and Hugo.  Not Claire.  And she most certainly notices!  Jack informs them that this is Sawyer's plan and they move on.  Claire sense that feeling of abandonment yet again. 




Rendezvous at Sailboat
Jack and crew arrive at the sailboat where Sawyer and Kate are waiting.  But someone tailed them the whole way there.  Yep, CRAZY CLAIRE!

  • Kate takes matters into her own hands and decides to try to reason with Claire.   She tells Claire that they are leaving the Island that SHE is promising to get her off of the Island and to Aaron.   It's a very emotional speech from Kate as she begins to tear up telling Claire how it's the only reason she came back to the island.  Sawyer gets all huffy and puffy but Kate says that she won't leave without her.



  • Claire lets her guard down and comes towards Kate.  Kate grabs Claire's rifle but not before Claire mentions that Flocke is going to be "angry" if he finds out they're gone.  Yep, just when we think creepy Claire is saved, there's still a hint of crazy there! 
  • And then the boat is off to Hydra Island.  Frank walks over to Sawyer and asks him what the game plan is.  And then the nickname comes.  CHESTY!!!  Gotta love it.  Thank God mopey Sawyer is gone.  He says they're going to get nice and cuddly with Widmore on Hydra Island then he's going to put a gun to someone's head and help them take the sub off of the Island.  Frank decides that he likes the plan.  And we finally know how Sawyer is going to drive the sub!  He isn't! 



  • Sawyer sees Jack contemplating things at the front of the boat and asks Kate to take the wheel.  She tells him to be nice.  Yeah, that didn't work out too well! 


  • Sawyer makes a comment about Jack taking orders and was impressed that he actually showed up.  Jack brings up the fact that leaving the Island doesn't feel right.  We know that when Ben told Jack that he would never be leaving the Island again, Jack was pretty content with that idea.  Jack says that the last time he left, he felt like a piece of him was missing. 
  • He goes on to say that they were brought here because they're supposed to do something.   He says if that thing wants them to leave, maybe he's afraid of what happens if they stay.   Sounds pretty logical Jack!  I would hate for them to have gone to all of this trouble to get BACK to the Island if they're just going to try and leave.  Granted, some of them I can totally see leaving like Claire, Jin and Sun.  And of course, we still need to find out how the Sideways plays into things.
  • Anyway, Sawyer isn't seeing the logic in Jack's thinking.  And he "kindly" requests Jack to get off of his boat.  Yikes.  Looks like the reunion was short-lived!    

  • Sawyer says that Jack is either with them or against them.   Jack tells Sawyer this is a mistake and he knows a part of him feels that way too.  "The Island is not done with us yet."  If he is feeling doubt, Sawyer ain't showing it right now.  He is totally done with the Island.  But Jack is planting the seed for now.  I'm still all about my LIVE TOGETHER DIE ALONE ending.  They'll all be working together for whatever cause is right for them all.   
  • But for now, Jack has to say goodbye.  He takes one look at Kate, and then he apologizes one more time for getting Juliet killed.  And then, he took his "leap of faith" right into the ocean. 
  • Naturally, Kate flips out.  And she wants to go back for him.  I think she even utters the words "We have to go back!"  just like Jack did at the end of season 3.  Sawyer simply says "We're done going back."  


Hydra Island Arrival
So once again, they anchor the boat off shore and swim to the beaches of Hydra island.

  • Naturally, the Widmore crew comes out with their guns pointed and Sawyer tries to wave them off. 



  • Zoe yells out for them all to drop their weapons.  They all do.  Sawyer tells them no one else is with them and Locke is still on the main land.  Zoe orders the Pylons to be turned down.
  • And then....it happens...just when I was about to forget that these 2 haven't seen each other in 3 years and had been pining to find each other all season.  Jin comes towards the beach, and Sun sees that her husband truly is still alive.  And, boy I'm getting all teared up just trying to write about it!  Nothing says LOST more than a Sun/Jin reunion!  Season 2 had a great one and now Season 6 tries to match its greatness.  The Michael Giacchino theme music for Jin and Sun is playing in all of its glory.  And Sun finds her voice again!!  And for anyone who was gambling on what language their reunion would be in.   It's most certainly English.  awwwwwwww YAY!!  I think Hurley's face says it all.  And speaks for volumes of fans who finally got what they've been waiting for. 
  • Sun tells Jin that she never stopped looking for him.  Jin promises that they will never be apart again.  Whew, the waterworks need to stop.  I have a blog to finish! 
  • And of course, the reunion was short-lived as Zoe gets the word from Widmore and the guns are back up on the LOSTIES.  WHAAAT?  


  • Sawyer says that they had a deal.  Zoe says the deal's off.  Well, did we really think Widmore wasn't going to end up being an adversary in the end?  Even Sawyer didn't trust them.  But he thought he had gotten the best of Widmore. But before we find out what their intentions are with the LOSTIES, they are ready to try and take down Locke.  They have him in their sites and are going to start firing.  Oh boy! 

 Jack Returns to the Island

  • After a rough swim, Jack finally reaches shore.  And who is waiting there but Flocke and his Temple Cronies. Flocke asked if Sawyer took his boat, Jack confirms. 




  • And then the rockets, missles or whatever Widmore's crew fired are coming right towards Locke and Jack!  Jack yells for everyone to get down.  The first shot totally misses Locke but sends Jack flying.  Oh no!!! 


  • Jack is totally out of it and Flocke comes and grabs him and takes him into the Jungle.  

  • Flocke gets him up against a tree and checks to see if he's okay.  Jack, although awake, is unresponsive.  Flocke says not to worry, that it's going to be okay.  And alluding to what Claire said to Jack earlier, "You're With Me Now"   




BOOM LOST!!!!!!!!

WOW!!!  What on earth is going on on this show?  Did anyone think Jack was a goner?  Deep down I knew he wouldn't be, but this close to the end I certainly got nervous!  And is Jack "CLAIMED" now by Mr. Flocke?  I seriously doubt it.  And if he is, it won't be long before that changes.  Maybe Sayid is a changed man again and will get Jack back.  Maybe Desmond is loose and will get to him.  Or maybe Jack is right where he wants to be.  Behind enemy lines and he is not afraid of Flocke because he's destined to defeat him.  They could go a lot of ways with this story.  And what's going on with our Hydra crew?  Why is the deal off?   What is Widmore's plan with the LOSTIES?    And what is going on in Sideways land?  Everyone is coming together, but they do not all recognize each other, YET.  Where is it all headed?  Well, there are only 3 episodes left before the 2 hour finale.  And they all start May 4th leading to the epic showdown and finale to end all finales on Sunday May 23rd!  I cannot wait to see how it all ends! 

But for now, I am kind of relieved that I can relax and stretch my fingers before the final run of episodes.  Hitting these deadlines every Wednesday has been taking its toll.  Be sure to tune into the re-airing of Ab Aeterno next week which will no doubt be the Enhanced version.  I did say that I might look into writing another post during the hiatus checking off the questions on our 23 Mysteries Post from January.  I'm not going to guarantee it because I don't know how much time I'll have.   If I don't do one, I'll definitely do one this summer to see what answers we got and which ones we need to answer for ourselves.  So stay tuned.  Hope you enjoyed my ramblings as always and I'll definitely see you in 2 weeks! 

Ending Credits
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345 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 345 of 345
David Salako said...

I trust that Vincent, Rose and Bernard will show up again as the gathering storm intensifies regarding the war that has begun on THE ISLAND.

Re: LA and why all these characters are gathered there, perhaps it is because THE ISLAND is sunk in this universe but all these characters still feel an inexplicable pull to this particular location?
Maybe something to do with the Dharma Lamppost station being in LA?
I had a theory that Daniel Faraday built that particular station but if that is so, would it - the station - still exist in Sideways world with Daniel Faraday now being a musician?
FLocke mentioned something about Jack being trapped on THE ISLAND even before he ever got there. Was he referring to just Jacob's anointing or perhaps something even more - fate, divine will, universe's will, THE ISLAND's will etc.?

crashriprock said...

This might sound weird
but on this show what doesnt?
Ive been looking at all the literary connections and themes,
and there is a library full. This made me think of two german brothers who collected stories and tales edited them and then published them as a collection. They both died in the mid 1800's
their names were
Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm

Candidate said...

@ginni4 That Frogurt comment was absolutely hillarious! lmaf

Floreen said...

@crashriprock - Than John Locke of the IT is quite the liar, because one thing he didn't stop doing was Exactly Looking.

Fate vs free will, destiny vs choice, coincidence vs faith, this is pretty much like how did God came into existence type of question.

I know that there's definitive answers to all those, but don't let yourself think you found that answer. John wanted to be more than what he was and overcome his limitations.

In principle that's a noble endeavor and it can be done to a certain extent. Over that extent is when that endeavor becomes dangerous as his character shows us.

@davidsalako - Mike V is the first in my opinion to have advanced the idea that the Lamp Post was built by Faraday and I think it could've been so.

crashriprock said...

Florin
Im guessing you have nevr read

Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

His writtings arent really anything to do with the show except maybe by external comparison

Floreen said...

@crashriprock - Bingo. I suggest to you to read 'The Consolation of Philosophy' a great book by Boetius. You'll love it.

David Salako said...

I heard the "Faraday possibly building the Lamp Post" theory way back when season 5 was airing before I discovered this blog.

Speaking of season 5, I have been watching the episodes on Hulu and it was such a complex and compelling season. I am so glad that ABC allowed this show to flourish and not prematurely cancelled it like a lot of the shows I like! The enhanced episodes are a lot of fun to.

crashriprock said...

Well Boetius is kind of a new take on old world philosophy plato aristotle

what I was pointing out in an earlier post is that most if not all of the philosophers are what is refered to as the new thought

John Jocke is the mac daddy god father of the new thought
and by extension (and same time period) Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra is too

and by same time period I mean the discovery of the new world America
which is what is seemingly being judged by our two omnipresent intities

but your right Boethius is a good read you can get most anything published before 1922 for free at google books by the way

crashriprock said...

David

If it wasnt for HULU

we wouldnt be having this conversation thats all I watch now
lol

Floreen said...

@crashriproc - I knew what you're saying, that's why I said Bingo. I was putting in it in the Lost context as you actually and initially guessed.

For free on Google? Heck I paid a good price at Folio Society, but it was worth every penny. Off the topic here, my fave in books like that is an old English classic 'The Diaries Of A Nobody" and is funny too plus one I can't think of its title off hand, but is about an English man traveling through France on a donkey he was feeling sorry to give it up when he finished his travels.

crashriprock said...

you mean
Don Quixote?

and what I meant by boethius being a new take on Plato was that he was making the transition of classical phylosophy from polytheism to monotheism

Floreen said...

@davidsalako - You're right about that chance been given. There was a year but can't remember if 2007 or around that time, so many shows were prematurely canceled on so many networks it was crazy. It was by the time ABC abruptly canceled Deja-vu, WB became CW and canceled two good ones, and adventure one and a chick flick series - Related, Fox canceled a promising political kidnapping a senator wife with conspiracy style plot, NBC canceled Kidnapped and the list just goes on. The last vic on ABC was the pie maker series, can't think of its name now with Chi McBride, the guy from Human Target. I like his dry style of delivering funny punch lines.

Floreen said...

@crashriprock - Bingo on all acounts and thank you for spelling boethius correctly. I am quite tired and spelling with a sticky keyboard with fast typing is not a good combo.

crashriprock said...

well I can never fault anyone for spelling Im dyslexic as hell
which makes logging in my posts with this word puzzle a challenge

crashriprock said...

Here is something else that just occurred to me
The purge must not have taken place in the sideways time line because Ben's father is still alive
that means that the only reason Ben is alive in the 2007 timeline is because the 815 survivers namely Sayid went back in time other wise Ben would have been killed in the purge
curiouser and curiouser

crashriprock said...

one more thing before I hit the hay

its about the Brothers Grimm
in most of the stories they collected the villan was a woman
its thought that this is because thier father and grandfather died at an early age.

In the TV series it seems like every on on this show has serious major issues with their dad and in some cases the dad is the villan
just a thought

Candidate said...

I am just starting to read all the comments at this time and FINALLY have a peaceful moment to read sit and think. Great recap Mike once again. I really don't feel that any episode this season warrants a "Filler" description. "Now let's not get into name calling" @Gwen good thinking on why Margo is absent. She seemed very jealous and was filled with anger. Add a death of an unfaithful husband to fuel all that I could def see Margo unable to make public appearances of any kind. @Ginni4 again. I don't think the writing is inconsistant as far as the Templetons. Flocke is VERY convincing. I'm going to assume that The temple extras think they have been lied to and want to go home. Sayid gave out the announcement...Hear Ye Hear Ye come with us or die. Decide by sundown. c-ya wouldnt want to be ya. Flocke convinced everyone that they were all prisoners and now that Jacob is dead They are free.
and as far as Cindy goes I think they kept her around because "She's Still kinda hot though" and finally REMEMBER ANAKIN!!! If that's not the clue of all clues. Sayid will probably be turned back to the light side. As Darth Vadar came back but died soon thereafter. Very soon.
@Everyone
I am starting to think that we may not find out how Sayid came back to life.
Where's Jacob? we haven't seen him for days now unless he is Island Boy.
a half an answer for Christian. White Shoes Christian = Smokey.
Smart Shirt outfit Christian = undetermined. I have to write off the 3 day 6 day thing as Jack has travelled through time and might not remember something if it was 3 days or 6. Add lack of sleep and I know that I wouldn't be able to keep track of what day was what. (Probably a writing error.)
@Mike. The apples I thought was absolutely a foreshadowing. For those who have done there home work know that Darlton promised us that answer but for the folks who haven't read those articles the apple would be a major clue.

crashriprock said...

Do adam and eve even exist on the island in sideways land?
Most of what was on the island in the 2007 timeline isnt going to be on the island in the 2004 sideways version.

But try this on
right now at this point if Desmond is trying to bring people together in sideways time or at the very least awaken people to their previous experience
The one person right now that can foil his plan is going to be BEN...
duhn duhn duhn
Which may put Desmond at the police station where he meets the federal agent sent to get Kate
Naomi Dorrit

♡Kim♡ said...

Not a WOW but a good episode....I think the reunion between Jin and Sun was underdone....and some of the scenes too fast to absorb, but otherwise a pretty good showing.

I know I stand alone, but Jack is just over the top foolish now...I can't help myself. He jumps (how high?) into the ocean with boots and a backpack just because Sawyer (God's gift to me) says to. Jack has NEVER been a fave of mine but now, he's lowered himself on the old totem. Ugh.

The Claire thing, not sure what's that about but not sure it won't be a detriment to everyone....besides, she wanted to be near her brother and now he jumped ship.

I still have this HOPE inside me that Sawyer will be heroic....and do something GREAT. I hope I am right, however, my money is on Desmond for the win. Jack...smack.

rhinoceros said...

I can't read all the comments, more than 200 must be a PB every week now. A reflection of your good work on this great show.

Apologies if this has been said - Desmond is now the new Jacob?

I don't actually know how but there are some curious things.

Ie. Locke couldn't kill him but got somebody else to kill him, or try too.

Desmond acting all cool, suave and all-knowing.

And he potentially enlightened bad Sayid.

Watch this space I suppose. I know my potential theories are always very unoriginal when I come here. hehe

Mike V. said...

@Florin - you mean John wiggled his toes right? lol But yeah, John was always a curious character from the beginning. I know what you're talking about with Michael and the wall or whatever it was....but that wasn't the lighthouse. Hurley and Jack make it pretty clear that when we see the lighthouse it's the first time any of us are seeing it.

The reason I brought up Faraday maybe having a hand in building the lamp post...is the way Eloise spoke of how a "brilliant man" came up with the lamp post. The way she talked about it made it sound like we would find out one day. But, we may never. I don't think the dates really added up though on it though. You would think DHARMA would have built the lamp post before arriving there the first time. And they were already there in 1974...whenever Daniel decided to leave the island. I would love to know what he was doing off island during that time though.

@crash - interesting thought with the philosopher's names, but yes I believe the Milton name was a reference to Paradise Lost. And pretty good memory for not having seen ST5 since it came out lol Sadly, I definitely have seen it more than once. But it has been awhile for me too!

@David - Agreed on the trio of Vincent, Rose and Bernard. Great minds think alike on the Dharma Lamp post station...I was just talking about that a few posts earlier lol And yeah, we talked about it last season too. As for it existing in sideways...no idea. But yeah..maybe the characters feel a pull towards Los Angeles. It could be just for convenience storytelling to have them all in one location....or it could be, like I suggested, some kind of controlled environment where they are all being watched over. Not sure how that would work though. (I've been rewatching season 5 via netflix streaming...and I really am enjoying it a lot for the 4th time through lol I totally agree with your sentiments)

@Candidate/Gnni - I totally missed the frogurt comment. I'll have to go back and check it lol

@Crash - the purge happened in 1992...and yes, it seems to have not happened. So that helps us set a timeline for WHEN the island sinks in sideways. It could be any time from 1970's to 1992. Or not...i guess island events could have played out differently in this timeline. But for some reason...Roger and Ben left the Island. Same with Pierre Chang...if he ever was there. And if he was there, was MIles born on the Island? Lots of questions in that realm!

Mike V. said...

@Candidate - Thanks for the props! I totally agree with "no filler" this year. Everyone has their own definitions for that word! Like all of your thoughts on the templetons. Do not agree on your assessment of White Shoes Christian vs. Flannel Shirt Christian (or whatever he's wearing)....I think for awhile we were thinking it was the reverse (MIB was Flannel Christian)...but then it was confirmed that the suit WAS MIB. Still doesn't explain the OFF-Island appearance of Christian in the suit. Gotta be GHOST Christian (but that darn smoke alarm still makes me 2nd guess lol) But Flannel Christian clearly was sending Locke down a path that would ultimately lead to MIB's loophole. I can't think that some non-MIB entity would have put that much work into it. Agreed that we haven't seen Jacob in awhile...no idea where he is.

I not necessarily need to know HOW Sayid came back to life...I just want to know WHY he's walking around like he IS alive! lol The fact that Miles reiterated the fact that Sayid was dead for 2 hours makes me think they won't leave this one untouched in the end. But he certainly does seem like our Sayid by the end of this past episode. Showing emotion and everything. I just can't believe that in the final season they'd break their own rule of DEAD IS DEAD. Of course - they are breaking it big time with the Sideways world right now! LOL

As for the Adam and Eve foreshadowing....I forget exactly what I said...but I think I didn't disagree. All I said was that I didn't feel like pondering on it! lol I definitely saw some possible symbolism there but then I just decided not to elaborate...because personally, I know the answer is coming and seeing an Apple here and there just doesn't do anything for me. Plus...Sawyer and Kate as Adam and Eve? eh...that might be kind of underwhelming for me. Sawyer and Claire? Even worse! lol I think the fact that Hurley talked about Adam and Eve in THE LIGHTHOUSE episode was enough for all viewers to know that this answer is coming.

@Crash - dunno if Adam&Eve exist in sideways land...depends who they are! lol

Interesting idea with Desmond vs. Ben and bringing Naomi into things. We shall see!!

@Kim - Every episode is gonna be a WOW for me until the end. I'm easily pleased, but for the great ones, I think I get a little more excited in my opening paragraphs lol I can see your feelings on the underdone Jin/Sun reunion...those crazy pylons kinda ruined the mood lol But I still thought it was a good time. I got a little emotional!

As for Jack - you definitely don't stand alone on hating his character....but I have always been a fan. I don't think Jack got off of the boat because Sawyer told him to.....I think Jack decided Sawyer was right and that he had to take his "leap of faith"....and I think it's going to turn out to help them all...considering Widmore has the rest of them captured now.

I'm sure Sawyer will do something heroic by the end. I'm sure Jack and Desmond will too. I still have hope that all of the LOSTIES will be on one side in that final episode. WE shall see!

@Rhino - PB = personal best right? Just checking. But thanks for the big props on the blog as always! Yeah these comments have gotten crazy. I think the biggest one was Ab Aeterno which got over 300 comments. insane. As for what you brought up:

People definitely have been discussing Desmond's Jacob-like traits. We shall see where they're going with it! But yeah...I think there will be rules to killing candidates just like there was for Jacob...so I think Sayid was meant to be his weapon against the rest of the losties...but now if Sayid is turned back to the LIGHT SIDE...who knows?!

Whew...caught up again...and I'm sure all in time to fall behind again! :-)

crashriprock said...

Adam and Eve had two stones one black and one white. I dont think that if that is a reference to some future out come that Adam and Eve would be freinds or even lovers.
We may see their ghosts in physical form at the end argueing on a beach.

ADAM: They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

EVE: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

Then in the distant horizon we see a modern looking sea going ship out of the future.

The phrase "Ab Aeterno"
is latin for
From the begining

crashriprock said...

Florin
Boethius was an interesting pick on your behalf because like I said earlier his philosophy was some what of a transition from polytheism to monotheism .
So if Boethius was on a ship headed for the island (so to speak)and was a canidate in his time.

Then Democritus would be Jacob
and Epicurus would be the MIB.

Interesting

gnni4 said...

I re-watched Dead is Dead last night, they gave us the answer right there in the title, had always said it, and we still didn’t listen to them! I went back to reread your blog on it and our comments. It was interesting seeing that info with the 20/20 of hindsight.

There was an anonymous poster convinced that Locke was the monster, and had been the one portraying itself as Locke, Yemmi, Christian and any dead person.

Mike, you were questioning why Locke took his shoes off. Locke had his shoes off and pants rolled up, standing near the water line on the beach, before getting into the boat with Ben, which is why he had his shoes off and then put them back on when he sat on the dock.

In the brief shot of Ben talking to Caesar, questioning who that guy is, John is seen in the background by the water, and backs up when the wave comes in to avoid getting wet. It made me wonder if you are onto something with the aversion to water. You also wondered if John was actually dead and this was something else. I still wonder HOW smokie got to Hydra Island if he can't cross water.

gnni4 said...

Continued…

Ben wanted to go to "be judged". Locke asked, "Judged, Judged by who?" Ben replies, "We don't have a name for it, but you call it The Monster." Richard and The Others lived on the island for how many years, and they had no name for it?

They knew SOMETHING about it, enough for Ben to believe that he needed to be judged by it. It just baffles me more in retrospect! Charles Whidmore lived in the woods in yurt type structures with the others and Richard, and they didn't seem to be picked off by it.

Richard also tells Charles that Jacob wanted it, when talking about bringing Ben to The Temple to be healed. I wonder now if that was true, or if Richard was speaking FOR Jacob. Makes me wonder if Charles ever spoke with Jacob or had dreams, or if all the years that he was The Leader, if he was like Ben, just winging it?

gnni4 said...

Continued…
Has Jacob ever spoken to anyone besides Richard and Hurley and MIB?

The bit with Ben engulfed by the smoke was like Mr. Echo being judged, flashes of light, video like shots of the past and people they wronged/loved. WHAT THE HECK IS THAT SMOKE THING?

That post also cracked me up, because you had 63 comments or something, and you were like, WOW! A lot of comments! Now you get that many the first morning that you post! I used to feel weird if I posted 2 or 3 comments to each blog, and now, whoa! Now I am breaking on post up into 3 sections! We all have gotten chattier!

It has been a real pleasure reading your blogs and sharing in the conversations the last few years. Re-reading old post and comments is great to see how right or wrong we were! Have you been giving some thoughts to your next blog on our week off next week? I’d love to have a recap of our blunders and bulls-eyes!

crashriprock said...

Gnni4

In the Hindu religeon naraka (a place of darkness) is where sinners are brought when they die.
Yama is the Lord that judges people according to the sins they have commited against Dharma.
(Dharma is ones righteous duty)
The name of the place where Yama lives is called

Yama Loka

gnni4 said...

Interesting Crash, but I don't believe that Darlton picked Locke name because it sounds a little like something from the Hindu religion. I don't think the show is religious, just hints at things to pull people into believing, because we see what we want to in their ink blots.

I know that they pull names from books and philosophers, and borrow on themes from other works. The island has been around a long, long time, and has shout outs to many races and cultures.

I love the guessing games they have us play, and how with some time and the internet we are all widening our knowledge of many areas!
It is like a huge scavenger hunt that all the fans are on together!

I am amazed at how talented the actors have been, not knowing what was going on themselves sometimes, and yet when you re-watch episodes, they had just the right reactions or facial expression to fit perfectly to what we later find out was happening. That is talent, and great direction!

crashriprock said...

I dont think it has anything to do with it. Because the statue is taweret who was a goddes that protected the unborn. Henry Gale was the name of Dorthy's uncle in the wizard of oz he came to the island in a balloon, again nothing to do with anything.

What Im looking at is the whole picture of the puzzle because there are only five slots open on this 250 piece puzzle before the puzzle is complete and Im trying not to get to hung up on the microscopic details of the drawer full of puzzles peices left.

Candidate said...

@ everyone
O.K. so Mike you are saying that the Christian and Locke scene at the donkey wheel was MIB which was a topic of discussion a few weeks back. Which would probably make Eloise on team MIB. Florin's posting about Eloise got the ball rolling for me. I was like "NO WAY." Than after rewatching the first 10 eps of season 5 (in one sitting) than I started suspecting that maybe I was completely duped by Eloise. BUT I still for some crazy reason have a soft spot in my heart for Ellie. I want to think that she is good. Widmore wants MIB corked or dead so would this mean that Eloise and Charles are on opposing sides. I know I am grabbing at a last straw in defense of Ellie but maybe Lockes Body and the shoes aggenda of getting them back to the Island is part of the plan to kill or cork MIB forever??? eh probably not.

Plaid shirt Christian told Sun and Frank to wait there For John Locke (I think in Dead is Dead) So Smokey had to do an outfit change ...OR... that was Christians Ghost who would also be in cohoots with Smokey. I feel that I really need confirmation on those 2 scenes of "You can go now" and Smoke alarm Jack scene. Will we find out??? who knows. Although the evidence seems to be all there I am just having a hard time accepting that plaid shirt Christian was MIB. I feel like John Locke and have been fooled this entire time.
@ginni4 great thoughts put into writing and still I have images in my head of what if smoke monster possesed forgurts body. HA! it can still happen ya know. Cheerz

Mike V. said...

@Crash - Yeah I have speculated that Adam might end up being the man in black. some have speculated that Adam and Eve might be Jacob and MIB also...and that MIB might have originally been a woman. Not sure I like that idea. It definitely is a male and female skeleton though. I had pondered that maybe MIB suffered the loss of his female counterpart and blames Jacob for it....and this starts a long feud between the 2 former "friends" Just theorizing though...a backstory of these 2 individuals could speak volumes!

And yes...Ab Aeterno does mean Since the beginning of time.

I 2nd Gnni on all of the religious stuff. I like the allusions just as much as anyone else in the show...but I try not to look TOO much into it. I do not think we'll be proving the existence of God with this show for any of the religions out there that they draw on for inspiration lol

@Gnni - I've been rewatching season 5 myself and just watched Dead is Dead last night. I think we were listening to them back then but we still had no idea how Locke was walking around! Yeah, some did suggest Smokey back then but we were missing some key details....and that would be the whole Man in Black aspect of it....it had yet to be revealed to us...the fact that Smokey even had an agenda on the island was not specified to us. But yeah...we definitely had some good speculation going along the way! I still question the taking off of the shoes. that scene you refer to where ben is talking to caesar...flocke is standing IN the water! but it is interesting that he backed up. There is lots of speculation going on to what exactly the Smokey vs. Water thing is...or if there is any aversion at all too it I guess we'll see!

Yeah...i had thought Richard was just trying to get away with something when he told Widmore "Jacob wanted it" ....i didn't think Jacob had talked to Richard about it...but you never know! Maybe Jacob did want ben saved because he knew that Ben eventually had to kill him for his entire game plan to go into effect.

As for Charles speaking to Jacob...i have no idea...but i keep wondering if we're going to get an off-island scene where jacob spoke to Charles and told him to bring Desmond. Of course...rewatching THE VARIABLE...I saw the scene where Charles talks to Eloise and is very happy that Desmond is still okay. I already figured he was there to snag Dez...but now him knowing that he was okay holds a lot more weight. Widmore talks about sacrificing things like his relationship to Penny....what did he sacrifice it for!?!? I think we still need to find out.

It's a good question if Jacob has spoken to other people and maybe we'll find out soon enough!

As for the posts of yester-year...yeah it is funny to go back! If you go all the way back to season 2 you'll see 0 comments so when things lit up at the end of season 3...i was excited to get 30 comments! Now things are beyond "in control" LOL But I love it...even if i can't keep up (another comment just came in as I was typing this! whew)

Thanks for expressing your gratitude for the blogs...i've enjoyed it a lot too and look forward to the next few weeks as well! I've been considering writing something this week...but I still don't know if I'll have time. I'd love to read old stuff and see where we were right vs. wrong...but it just might take too long...and I don't have that kind of time. We'll see what I can do!

Mike V. said...

@candidate - all interesting thoughts but at some point I just feel that we have to know that we got our answers already. And this one seems clear cut....MIB was Ghost Christian appearing to Sun and Frank....told them to wait for Locke....then MIB somehow got across the island...and appeared to the 316ers....i think a day or so had passed before he was there. We just saw all of the episodes out of order of chronology. And then...MIB gets ben to kill jacob..and thus he's stuck as Locke....we have not seen Christian anymore since then. I think we will in some form or another before the end....but i think that will be GHOST Christian. (since he's dead in both timelines)

I really want confirmation on those 2 scenes too though!!! we'll see!!

okay...done for now!

crashriprock said...

Fate decides for us who our parents are. We don't get to choose them. If we could Bill Gates would have 6 billion kids.

The reason I think the rules dont apply to Desmond is because we dont know who his parents are.

Mike V. said...

@crash you need to write a book of poetry with these riddles you're posting! LOL

crashriprock said...

Its really not that complicated.
Apperntly there have been past civilizations that have been judged before thats why we see egyptian , hindu some south american and other symbols on the island.
Someone or something has plugged a volcano the longer it stays plugged the worse it will be when it blows. The Island seems to be moving around the south pacic in the ring of fire. Tectonic plates generate alot of electromagnetic energy, this energy has not been allowed to escape and in this story has taken corporal form. Some people want to use this energy for personal gain or at the very least to change thier past.

If I am right about this then in one of the next episodes 2004 sideways LA will be threatened by something in the pacific, a tsunami earth quake super caldera etc. Our heroes will move to neutralize this threat.What ever they do to stop this threat will be MIRRORED in 2007 time.

LA is the constant and the Island is the variable all thats left to this equation is the method.

This means that some one whas to release the energy from the island if they do it in 2007 mass mass disaster in 2004 mass disaster so the further we go back in time the less of a disaster the volcano will have on humanity.
Since "AB AETERNO" seems to start in 1877 and Widmore paid to get the first mates log from the black rock I have a feeling that someone has to go back and get smokey off the island or at least set off the volcanoin 1877 there for only causing a small eartquake in order to save humanity.

Mike V. said...

Can't post a lot because I'm typing from phone.

Crash i wasn't saying I was confused, I was just messing with you a little bit! I get where you're going. We shall see if you're right. If I have time later or tomorrow I'll post more thoughts on it!

Floreen said...

@Mike V - Yeah the wiggle thing made me wonder what’s up with that. So later I developed the theory that he was ‘claimed’ or on lay-a-way by MiB. What I can’t do is wonder that John Locke, I hope I spell the last name right, didn’t he had a moment of realisation that he isn’t himself at times?
Okay with the wall, although it looked similar. Could it be that we see the lighthouse for the first time in that time line, first time when the lighthouse is intact or by what means is the first time?
You are right about Dharma. They may had one of their own and Widmore is the one in charge of it in Tunisia for example. And the purge definitely couldn’t had taken place since Ben is not that kind of man and his father is back with him on good terms with Dharma. However, a such purge could’ve taken place after they left for all we know.

Floreen said...

@candidate - Think you for crediting me with the Eloise ball rolling.

Warning! gnni4 might not want to read the rest of this post. If you were angry with me before, this is not going to help.

Recognising that many of our character driven show did not intended to be bad and acknowledging that they were forced in circumstances beyond their control, I will develop a new thread on it, Eloise and even Widmore to be fair comes across as unsavory to say it at least.

To finish with Widmore first, he treated Desmond like a trash bag. The scene where he takes two glasses and pours only one for him was the top of the incivility.
Wondering if he and Eloise were not in cahoots against Des right from the start, duh, and even married t each other in the first season we saw their characters.

Eloise is the only character who came across the wrong way right off the bat, the first time she appeared on the show.
I will say again, that if she wants other people to be happy as well but she has a hard time communicating it, I’ll give her a C+++. Otherwise, a F---.
So far her attitude of a ‘negative know it all’ instead of a positive one, makes her a corporate bully, a beast, a brute, just a few different ‘b’ words I can think of her. She can’t even appreciate the people she’s using for her selfish, egotistic purpose. I always felt she’s a negative character and now with the hindsight we have, she’s even worse. Again, just because she want Daniel to live and we don’t know if is out of her heart rather a selfish reason, doesn’t mean she can sacrifice Des for it.
I wonder if the Adam and Eve in the cave are not MiB and Eloise. Based on their conniving, criminal, manipulative behavior they deserve each other.
The wardrobe, could be a clue, but for right now I’ll tucked under the suit delayed at the cleaning service, so they went with what was on hand.

Floreen said...

@crash - Bingo on all accounts you posted so far from Boethius -English spelling to Boetius - the Latin-Roman one, to the imagery of circles, rings of fire, loopholes, etc. I agree he would’ve been Jacob or at least a Jack Shepard.
I liked the way Lady Wisdom - Sophia, woke up Boetius to the reality that he had a good life after all.
My typos are the result of speed typing and ‘sticky fingers’, no other excuse on my part.

Floreen said...

@gnni4 - The producers/writers are doing an excellent job pulling those things; religious, names, etc. I have to give them a Big credit. The whole show is a woven tapestry - Jacob style, of masonic, christian, egyptian, hindu, etc. symbols plus. I disagree with you, this show is quite religious, philosophical, etc.
After all the island was moving through time and space for a Long time.
With the hindsight we have now, of course MiB/Smokey was John Locke from the moment Oceanic 815 hit the beach. Those posters then were right.
You caught nicely on those elements of confusing plot lines and Flockey got to Hydra island using one of those outriggers.

EJ said...

On the Island as Character topic, has anyone thought about the island and the smoke being the two opposing positions, manifested in human form (i.e. Jacob, MIB) as needed over time?

I rewatched "Dead is Dead" today, too. That's something to see again, knowing Flocke as we now do!

Of course, then, here are some renewed thoughts that I haven't quite organized yet -- maybe some of you have?

1. Charles Widmore was banished from the island by the Others because he left the island regularly and had a baby with an outsider (i.e. Penny, so was Daniel BORN on the island???).

2. The island would not let Charles come back, even though he tried for 20 years. Now he can. In a submarine. What's that about? What changed?

2. Before Charles was banished, he and Ellie were kind of in charge of stuff for the Others (Richard did not consult them when he took young Ben from Kate and Sawyer and then into the Temple -- he does not answer to them, but apparently the Others who questioned Richard do. And Charles DID question Richard, backing off only when Richard said it was Jacob's choice). Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned -- Sweet Ellie the Cuckold becomes Embittered Eloise??? Claimed Eloise? Enlightened Eloise?

3. I thought briefly about the 4 elements, and maybe smoke and water not mixing, but I think that's a dead end (land, water, fire -- not smoke, air).

4. The fertility issues seem to have occurred early in Ethan's lifetime, since he was born 1979-80ish without issue and, as a young (?) teenager, he accompanied Ben in the "Kidnap Alex from Danielle" caper in 1988. (Alex is 16 in 2004.)

Floreen said...

@EJ - I think that the return of Widmore is the result of the island been made visible by the Des accident. I think that Widmore had to have a Lamp Post station of his own in Tunisia perhaps and that helped him find the island as well. Just speculating here.

Floreen said...

Some of the good characters, not perfect, according with the Florin’s Rating Services untill season 6 that is. Subject to revision and additions and I am sure I forgot a few.
.0 - Jacob
0 - Bernard
1 - Brother Desmond
2 - Libby/Hugo
3 - Frank Lupidus
4 - Daniel Faraday
5 - Charlotte
6 - Naomi
7 - Miles
bar none and close together in ratings like if Des is #1, Libby would be 1.2. They committed the least of any wrongs, if. I can add Minovski and whom am I missing?

8 - Jack Shepard. His not letting go caused his father to fall back in alcoholism. On the other hand Jack should be tied with Bernard and Des.
9 - James ‘Sawyer’ Ford. He killed the wrong man.
But the two of them had excusable reasons to do what they did and as wrong as it was they did, they did not wanted to do bad.

10 - Reluctantly so said, Sayid. As a soldier he had little options on his hand but he could give up on that earlier and save himself the future troubles.
11 - Boone and Shannon, a tie.
12 - Sun and Jin, a tie.
all those here were forced in, but could have change or not let themselves into it.

The bad ones now.

indescribable - MiB/Smokey/Snukey.
.0 - Eloise, very very bad tied to Cooper.
0 - Juliet, although she did redeemed herself a lot on the last lap and tied to Michael.
0.5 - Ben but let’s remember he’s seemingly the good one now.
2 - Widmore with the same as Ben above
3 - Keamy and the crew.
those choose to do bad.

4 - The Dharma after the purge and the Others all of them.
Lied or not, they went along.

Tried the right thing, went wrong anyway.
5 - The Dharma pre-purge
6 - Kate
7 - Ana-Lucia
8 - John Locke
9 - Mr Friendly

I amnto thnking straight righ now, so I;ll stop here for awhile.

Floreen said...

I ma not thinking straight right now, boy - am I tired.

Floreen said...

I am not. Dang spelling

Candidate said...

@Florin
Like I said I feel duped. It's like you gave me a good talking to. LOL
Knocked some since into me.
I never liked Charles W. (I mean more like I love to hate him.) Always have. Hated the way he treated Des in that scene with the Whisky or is it Scotch. (Ok I know its the same alcohol that has showed numerous occasion in the show but forget the name of it.)
Anyhow Charles Widmore reminds me of an Environmental killer congressman GOP type o guy (Now let's not get political flaming arrows thrown at me) ...or... maybe like that evil Smoking Man on the X-Files.

My first impression of Eloise (The scene with Desmond buying the wedding ring and the red shoes sequence following) had me intrigued by her character. This new mysterious woman... We didn't know she was conneceted to Charles Widmore...We didn't know her name for quite some time nor did we see her again until (was it season 4 or 5???) I thought that she
(Eloise) was going to give us some serious answers. I think I was hoping for some storybook time and she would tell us all about the ancient days of the Island. LOL Maybe The Mayans were there or other stories of old.
BUT (for me) the mystery of Eloise was captivating to me AND she probably could answer most any question we would want to know in the Lost universe. So If I was a character on Lost the thirst and impatience for knowledge would probably be my big downfall. Could seduce me over to the dark side into the clutches of EVIL ELLIE. UUGGH
Of course She Aint handing out the answers anyway even if she knows everything.

YUP... unsavory and all of those other b words and I Love your new Adam and Eve Theory. HA! Oh and Thanks for prompting me to bust open my Season 5 DVD. Cheerz

Floreen said...

@candidate - Glad I could help in a professional manner. I have to give it to the actors that they know how to put that into play, as much as they may hate it themselves. I don’t know if I could do that to easy or knowing that the show’s fans will hate me for it.

As for been duped and so on, one can take comfort that at that point we were new to the show, episodes airing first time, and besides the obvious behavior, we couldn’t tell if that behavior is legitimate or not. Desmond was not really looking too good either, couldn’t stay in one place, keep a promise, I am not going to call him a looser especially now since we know better, but at that time he did qualify as a guy who either can help himself finding the place, or something just gets in he way.

I will have to agree with you however that is hard to have sympathy for Widmore or Eloise even at the first viewing. I felt like; Charles put a little heart in you and give the guy a chance.
With Eloise, a stiff upper lip, if I would’ve been in the show, I could find a few vengeful ways to bust her pride.
She’s so arrogant. A know-it-all who helps, share with others is a good thing. She’s selfish, secretive, not mysterious but hiding things. I would have her under Sayid’s care by the tree, not Sawyer. I would never be attracted to such characters, except to force the answers out of them and then, punish them.
I am sure that she has a story book to share and a lot of answers if not all of them. As you see however one can’t count of her co-operation anytime soon.

That would have to be MacCutcheon Scotch whisky, and is something very expensive. Here’s a bit of trivia for you from the Lostpedia; Admiral MacCutcheon is the name of a character in a television remake film of the classic story, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (by Jules Verne). Interesting tie in with the sub story.

Mike V. said...

@Crash - so more on your post. I agree that an island volcano will play into the end game somehow...since it's been hinted by the producers. So you think the island is corking the volcano eh? That's interesting...definitely could be. I disagree that the Island has always been moving around the south pacific. Take the Black Rock and the Nigerian Plane's arrival as examples. The Island supposedly has been always moving through space and time around the globe. (although I still think that it stopped moving when dez blew the hatch) But it is interesting about the tectonic plates and the electromagnetic energy. Definitely could explain that.

I do not think that the sideways characters will be faced with a THREAT as you theorize. I think their conflicts are more internal in the fact that they are realizing they are living lives they aren't supposed to be. Or maybe they're realizing they are living lives that they ARE supposed to be living due to their actions in past lives. But...I would still lean towards the former than the latter. Now, what they do with this information? Anyone's guess. btw...i think Ab Aeterno was 1867....and the black rock first shipped out in the 1840's....the JOURNAL, disregarding any possible continuity issues....was recovered prior to Richard's voyage to the island.

I also do not think time travel will play into the end game since the producers have repeatedly said that they got time travel out of their system in season 5 lol but we shall see!

@Florin - Yeah lots of people have been theorizing that Locke was claimed by smokey since the beginning. I just like to think that Locke was misguided more than anything...believing that there was a purpose to all of his island visions. And, I still hope that he is redeemed in the end and doesn't go out like a SUCKER. But I don't want to think he was "CLAIMED" by Smokey all of this time. It would take away from the idea that Locke has been following his Island commands on blind faith and it would take away from his scenes where he screams out at the Island "WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO!?!?!"

As for the lighthouse...we're still in the same timeline on the island as we are in season 2. It would get way too confusing if they started changing things on us...signifying that what they did in 1977 changed things in their island present. we already have the sideways storyline to sort out! The 2007 Timeline represents the "WHATEVER HAPPENED HAPPENED" result of Jughead. So, I can't be part of any theory that suggests otherwise! :-) lol

I still don't think BEN ordered the purge. He told Hurley that he didn't order it. Yes, he played his part in it by killing his father and going along with it, but someone else ordered it. I know Ben lies a lot, but I thought that was a vital piece of info. We also learn in the 1954 storyline that Richard talks about having to wipe out the US Military because they broke a truce or something like that....(i forget the exact words right now)....he talked about how it NEEDED to happen. Almost like it was an order from Jacob... Now if Widmore ordered the purge of both groups, that would certainly be interesting. But...who knows if we'll ever get these answers!

Mike V. said...

I'm staying away from the ELOISE info again lol I have no feelings either way towards the character but I know she plays a pivotal role in the show. Every character's actions on the show are motivated by something. It seems that Eloise and Widmore have sacrificed much for the Island for whatever reason...to get to some desired outcome. If Sideways is the outcome...that makes sense...but maybe it's more. Now whether these motives conform with the LOSTIES? Doesn't look like it, but too soon to tell (with not much time left LOL)

Interesting theory about MIB and Eloise being Adam and Eve. Could be! I have just given up on guessing lol I threw my theory out there...MIB and a LOST love. I don't think it's true...but we'll see what happens. If they truly knew who they'd be in season 1...then we might have to start thinking about characters we knew then. But, I'm giving up on thinking about it! (no promises that I won't start thinking about it in a minute! lol)

Mike V. said...

@EJ - Interesting idea about the opposing forces in human form. I guess it's possible...but the simple fact that Ben killed Jacob makes me think otherwise. Totally agree on rewatching "Dead is Dead" though! Onto your unorganized thoughts! lol

1. We don't really know where Daniel was born, but I think the producers suggested in a recent podcast that Eloise left the Island, had her baby and never returned. She was pretty distraught after killing her future son. But it isn't really covered on the show. And I may have just made up that they said this. But they definitely talked about it! LOL

2. Jacob wanted Charles to find the Island (because he was bringing Desmond maybe?) Don't know what changed though. I still say that the Island stopped moving when Dez blew the hatch and made it visible to the outside world...then Charles sent the freighter...wanted to kill everyone on the island and return to power. (well not sure about that second part but sounds good right now)

3. interesting on the 4 elements...I think I have seen some theories on this but I forget them!

4. You realize we witnessed Ethan's birth in the episode LaFleur right? LOL that was 1977....and the whole issue in the episode was that Juliet was afraid of delivering Amy's baby because every one has died on the island. Sawyer said...maybe whatever was causing that hasn't happened yet. So yes, I would agree there were no issues in 1977....whatever happened after that?? I couldn't tell you...and I would hope that answer is coming. If it was making its way into stories as late as last season, it seems like something they'll want to provide an answer to! And yes...TEAM FRANCE made it to the island in 1988!

Okay...i gotta get to work, so I'll try to get to the rest of the comments when I get there!

Mike V. said...

@Florin - So you think Jacob is the BIGGEST GOOD Character of all? I think based on not knowing his backstory or his true motives, this is a tough sell. It could be speculated that Jacob could be the actual antagonist of the story. We can definitely say that he has done evil things....recruiting group after group onto this Island, fully knowing that people are going to die fighting for a cause that he has not let them in on. Even Team Darlton have thrown it out there time and time again that maybe we shouldn't write off MIB as a truly evil individual. Sure...he has killed lots of people in 6 seasons....but was he justified? Who knows? I'm not ready to admit that....but I'm also not ready to admit that Jacob is truly good!
Bernard I can agree with..no evil intetions there LOL I'm surprised you didn't put Rose with him though.
And you think Naomi was good!?!? Yeah, maybe she was just hired by Widmore to "extract" Ben...but she also ratted out the LOSTIES with her dying breath "Tell my sister I love her" I'm not saying she's a BAD person...but to have her ranked so high on the good list...over some of our regular LOSTIES? I just don't know about it. Of course...i wouldn't really rate them on the MOST GOOD and downward lol We have seen over 6 seasons of LOST that ALL of our LOSTIES have their baggage. Even Bernard went against Rose's wishes to try and get her healed in Australia...lied to her and brought her there...she had made her peace with the cancer...and what do you know...because of Bernard, they were brought to the Island. Of course maybe Jacob had a hand in it too lol Granted...Rose was cured and they lived happily on the Island...and maybe they still are in 1977...time will tell!
And you know...Brother Desmond...your #1 Ranked guy....he killed Kelvin! Accidentally yes, and he also caused the crash of flight 815 killing many others....accidentally..yes. But, I cannot disagree with you that Des is a good guy.....of course in sideways land, he totally ran over John Locke! lol But, we've yet to see that play out in full.
@Candidate - I know your post was directed to Florin but I just thought I'd chime in on a couple questions you had. We knew Eloise's last name in season 3....she was Mrs. Hawking (based on Steven Hawking who wrote A Brief History of Time)....then the next time we see her is in season 5 (if you discount seeing a picture of her with the MONK in season 3's Catch 22). But yes, I too expected more answers from her. And maybe we still will get some!
As for Season 5 DVDs, I'll take partial credit for encouraging you to pick them back up...so you're welcome! LOL

And I'm caught up!

crashriprock said...

gnni4
Loki, in Norse mythology, the handsome giant who represented evil and was possessed of great knowledge and cunning. A shape shiter who once took the shape of a mare.

He was indirectly responsible for the death of Balder, god of light and joy.

According to the Poetic Edda, a collection of Scandinavian myths, Loki and Hel, goddess of the underworld, will lead the forces of evil against the Aesir, or gods, in the titanic struggle of Ragnarok, the end of the world

gnni4 said...

O....K.....,
and what does this have to do with anything, and why are you directing it to me?

And Florin, why on Earth do you STILL think my comments last week about Eloise were about you? I was not, and am not mad at you, I never called you names, you misunderstood and then grossly overreacted. If there is any problem here, it is all yours. I'm stayig out of it.

Mike V. said...

Once again! More riddles! :-) lol

(btw...I'm slowly working on updating my 23 Mysteries checklist) Maybe I will have something to post on Wednesday or at some point. No promises yet though!

Floreen said...

@gnni4 - I said so to protect your feelings because after I did called Eloise a b****, you were the one who shot that tangential flare by me. Sure you didn’t put my name on it, but hey, we’re not born yesterday. That been said...

For you and all who sympathises with Eloise and/or Michael doing things for their children, I totally understand, I am not cold hearted. It’s just that they are limitations to what, how far or long of a shot can be taken, before the good one thinks is doing turns bad. Let’s remember Friendly looking in disbelieve to Michael and saying in utter amazement; ‘You told Walt!’ Meaning, ‘You stupid! How not Walt not wanting to have anything to do with you knowing now you killed two innocent women to get out of there. How Can you expect him to respect you any more? Just saying. As for Mike and for you, I Would Love To See Redemption For All Characters, but I don’t have to agree with all their actions so far been said.

Anonymous said...

...here we go again...

Floreen said...

@Mike V - I would suggest a correction. Des didn’t blew the hatch, it was John Locke/Flocke who’s lack of faith and conflict with Mr Echo who lead to that. Echo wanted to push the button, Locke didn’t, Des was confused until he saw the blog from the ‘?’ hatch and realised what would happen if not pushing the button. By than it was too late and went for the last resort. I wonder if Smokey had anything to do in manipulating Locke into it.

Misguided? So what’s the difference after all? But I could see that too, and surprisingly, Locke had a point in that ‘purpose’ after all now that we see the whole picture. That’s what I was wondering as in above, he shown a lot of moments of regular behavior, did good things, but for a few minutes if not longer he fell under that Smokey spell.

Ethan was born on the island in 1977? How did I missed that? But didn’t Daniel worked on the island as well, when a similar incident of drilling in a pocket took place?

I also did brought that point about the island moving through tie and space. So to clarify that, later I did understood that the island could’ve been in Atlantic, Mediterranean, et. I see the point with the lighthouse.

I put Jacob up there for lack of precise information about is he really good or not. I disagree with you, he didn’t killed people directly either. Did his actions caused death, yeah, but it was people choice to be corrupt etc. and so forth. So until now I can’t really put him in the bad category yet.

I came to that conclusion as well about Ben, so maybe Widmore didn’t ordered as such thing either. So who’s this enigmatic character who orders those purges? I don’t see Jacob doing it either, for if he goes bad as well, what would be the point to have him in the picture. If MiB is bad, there would have to be a counter balance to it.

I got to bounce too....

Floreen said...

@gnni4 - But I thank you for not been mad or anything at me. I did apologized for my misunderstanding. It just felt that way.

Floreen said...

@anonymous - No, we're not at it again, she said so and I made a clarification given a lot of credit too. So we're not on it again, as she said we're staying out of it.

I would admit that many times I don't come good in my communication and I make mistakes, I feel I need to correct.

Mike V. said...

As mediator of the NON-BATTLE let me just say that it sounds like everyone was on the same page...no one was trying to offend anyone and we're all one big happy LOST Community! :-) lol

Sometimes things get lost in translation I think (a LOST episode title btw!). We have a lot of countries represented on this blog I think. I just got an email the other day from a reader down under! Good times! We've made our connection to Australia! lol

Florin - I'm gonna have to respond to your comments later. I have a 2 hour meeting coming up. I'm so looking forward to it! lol

Anonymous said...

@Mike V & Florin Milea - Wow then what Desmond has to do to be "ready" is

gulp, Die!



Gary H

David Salako said...

We never did find out what Des did to get dishonorably discharged from Her Majesty's Royal Scottish Guard.
Perhaps one drunken binge too many!
Perhaps Des' parentage and Penny's mother may be something interesting or perhaps that information is of no consequence?!
Time....will tell.

crashriprock said...

gnni4
The reason I directed it at you was because we seem to be playing "six dgrees of mismisdirection"

The original John Locke thesis on life was that man was born
TABULA ROSA
empty slate

There is a philippene god of death is called tdolok

Matt Damon played LOKI in Darma

the writers call the MIB incarnation of Locke unLocke
and it goes on and on and on

My point is and has been that there are more peices left in this puzzle than there are places left to put them. So I dont think they have the time left to answer all the questions.

Weasel said...

@crashriprock: I don't think the timelines changing at Jacob's touch holds any water because you are forgetting one thing... Jacob touched Sun and Jin at their wedding after they did the deed. They are not married yet in sideways land...

crashriprock said...

My point was that the one moment in everyones life that Jacob touches them he says Im sorry

Except Jin and Sun

Mike V. said...

@Ginni - I went ahead and jugheaded the whole thing and created a sideways timeline where those posts NEVER happened! :-)

@Florin - No matter how you slice it....Des turned that key and imploded the hatch...thus giving him time traveling/sideways travelling super powers! LOL Yeah, Flocke and Eko had something to do with it happening, but it was Des that turned the key and "SAVED THE WORLD" If you recall BEN was the first one to plant the bug into Locke's mind that nothing would happen. Remember he said that he never entered the code and the clock just reset? I have always wondered if Ben WANTED that hatch to implode...wanted that sky to turn purple...but then again...i always wondered if Ben even knew the hatch existed. We confirm with Expose' that he did...since he and juliet were at the pearl. So I guess they knew Desmond was there too. I really don't know WHAT Ben's motive with all of that was besides getting Jack to do surgery on him lol oh well...i'm going off on a tangent!

I just don't see it with Locke...I think everything he did, he felt he HAD to do in the name of the Island. He saw something that other people weren't seeing yet. He believed it was a place where miracles happen. And he felt it was all of their destinies to stay on that Island. I don't think Smokey would have planted that idea in his head....he would only exploit it by "sending locke signals from the island"

Yep, the baby born in LaFleur was Ethan...we find out in the next episode NAMASTE that amy names the baby Ethan. Hence why Ethan's name in sideways is Ethan Goodspeed. Because he never became an OTHER and he remained Horace's Son and a doctor off island. Are you referring to when Daniel was in the Orchid? We found out that he was just there to talk to Chang (in THE VARIABLE)....when they first designed that scene, they probably had other plans for Daniel...but then they just had to "make that scene" work with their new plan. So we see Daniel walking down an aisle right past chang...talk to a guy about time travel...and then come right back and talk to Chang lol I gotcha on Jacob. Just because the man didn't commit murder himself (which we don't know yet)...doesn't make his ideals any less evil if he knows people are going to be put in situations where they do die. If he was responsible for Oceanic 815 coming to the Island....are we to think that he didn't expect casualties on that flight? Same with Ajira 316? Yep...that's what I thought.

No idea with the purge...i hope we do find out who ordered it...and if it IS Jacob...it might shed the guy in a whole new light.

@Gary - Yeah...could be. Good question!! I hope not. You know what makes me nervous? We already saw the Desmond/Penny reunion and them having their "happy ending"...we got that big moment that we thought would be a series finale moment. And now...in the final season, he's back on the island and has to do some sacrifice....what if this means we may see him die!? I would hate it if Desmond dies...but not everyone can have a happily ever after! If someone goes out with a big sacrifice....it won't be in vain. I see Sawyer, Desmond and Jack as top candidates for a big sacrifice at the end of all of this. I really don't like the idea of any of them dying. But we'll see!

Mike V. said...

@David - I actually was just writing about this in my "Revamped 23 Mysteries" post I'm working on. Nope we never did learn it, and I'm assuming we're not going to. But I was very interested in knowing why at the end of season 2. I figured that would be what our first season 3 flashback would be....but we were pleasantly surprised with the ol' Flashes Before Your Eyes episode! I never gave up in season 4....and then we were even more pleasantly surprised with THE CONSTANT (but we did see him in the military)! And then Time Travel began and then Sideways started...and I just lost hope! Maybe an encyclopedia entry could satisfy us on this one! Considering his pattern of running away from things...maybe Desmond went AWOL and then got caught. they put him in the prison for a bit and then he got discharged.


@Crash - love the "six degrees of mismisdirection" lol I still do not know how you're getting to your point with the puzzles...but I can absolutely agree with your POINT! lol They absolutely will not answer all of the questions. We'll be left with some things to theorize about....some things may get covered in the encyclopedia in August...and then maybe years from now Darlton will return to comic-con and come up with answers to other burning questions that never get answered. But the good news is...we'll always have stuff to debate!

@Weasel - agreed

@Crash - did he say I'm sorry to all of them? I think I only recall him saying that to Locke. Jack he talks about needing a little push. Kate he talks about not getting into trouble. Sayid - he asks for directions. Sawyer - maybe he apologized...i forget but he gave him a pen to write that letter and push him into the path of a con man. Jin/Sun - something about cherishing their love. (madonna style lol) if he uttered the exact words "i'm sorry" in each scene...I don't really remember. But i don't think he did.

crashriprock said...

What Im fixing to post may very well be a spoiler So if you dont want to know this dont read this.

There are three shows that have Latins names the third show (kate centric) called Tabula Rasa
clean slate

The 19th show (locke centric)
called Deus Ex Machina

Deus Ex Machina is an old theatre term that means to add something to the story that doesnt have anything to do with the story.

And the last is the 112 show and was (richard centric)
called Ab Aeterno " which means "from the beginning"
in Ab Aeterno jacob tells richard that everyone gets a clean slate Tabula Rasa on the island he explains what the island is like a cork in a bottle that keeps the evil inside.

Richards time line begins in 1877 on the island of Tenerife.
100 years later on March 27 1977 in real life on the island of Tenerife the worst aviation crash in our modern history takes place between two planes that were forced use a secondary airport because a terrorist had set off a bomb at the main airport. The Pan am flight that was involved had originated from los angeles the dutch pilot on the KLM flights name was Jacob Veldhuyzen van Zanten The crash was his fault there were 61 survivors.

This maybe the biggest Mcguffin of all but if you go to the link im going to post you will see simularies in that disaster that are way to much of a coincidense concidering that this is the Island in which we meet Richard 100 years earlier.

so dont go if you dont want to know

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife

crashriprock said...

ooops I left out the best part
dont read if you dont want to know

There was an unidentified person in the Pan Am cockpit.

gnni4 said...

Mike, thank you for the new and improved (I hope) timeline.

I hadn't thought of it until reading that post, but isn't it interesting that Ethan is a Goodspeed in the sideways...

Did Paul still die somehow, on the island or off, or was Ethan always Horas's son? It's another of those quirky paradoxes that we have to just live with. And just to pick nits, wouldn't Ethan have been born in 1974, when James and crew were bounced back in time and rescued Amy?

David Salako said...

I wonder if MIB/Christian Shephard appearing to Locke at the Frozen Donkey Wheel way back in times when the Tawaret statue still stood tall and complete, was a continuity error?
Was MIB time traveling as well? If so, was he still able to appear as Christian even though Christian's body didn't come the island until centuries later? Are MIB and Jacob just always constants with the island even if it or some of its inhabitants are skipping through time? Wouldn't MIB have appeared in Titus Welliver mode in those times? Maybe he was using Locke's memory of Christian in the cabin in order to project Christian? Jacob suspiciously knows Christian's exact words that 'cause Jack to be insecure also.

Mike V. said...

@Crash - once again I think Richard's story begins in 1867 not 1877. Not that it changes what you said besides the "100 years" part I don't think speculation can really be considered a spoiler! lol

@gnni - I do what i can! Good question on paul...totally didn't think about that! I wonder if they did lol I guess similar to the fact that John still gets paralized and still meets Helen....maybe Horace and Amy are destined to have Ethan regardless of the Island.

@david - I brought this up a few times too....it would seem like SMOKEY exists at all times. I don't think it was a continuity error though. I think it was purely intentional. Unless, when Locke fell down into that cave, he exited the "time travel" craziness and went to present day? afterall, that hole wasn't even there when they time traveled.

crashriprock said...

OMG
It starts on Tenerife Island
the scene of the worst crash in the worlds history in real life not lost life

a story about a plane crash starts on the Island of Tenerife the site of the crash in 1977. KLM had originated from amsterdam isnt Hanso dutch???

wasnt Hanso in ann arbor about the same time Daniel was.

the KLM flight in real world had 234 people and 14 flight crew die

the pam am flight started in los angeles

the KLM flight number was 4805

a black smoke covered the runway for two days

and the pilot who caused the accident his first name was jacob

and we talking about wether richard left that very same island in 1867 or 1877???

David Salako said...

I wonder what stunt casting is going to be pulled off to play Hanso? Assuming he is ever revealed on this crazy show!

gnni4 said...

@ davidsalako,
good question, I have a feeling that they are going to just float right by that one. I was hoping we would get more info on the DeGroot's and their little initiative, but with so little time I suppose not. So many questions, so little time. I am thrilled that we have the answers to Jack's tattoos though....

Are they leaving these things open for interpretation, or for sequils? I think that they are leaving it ala The Prisoner, the mystery of it all to baffle future generations, and then be re-done poorly on SyFy as a 3 part mini series!

Mike V. said...

Crash - no. Like I said it's not a big deal, I was just making sure you knew the right year that Richard left that island. It was 1867 when he got on the black rock. That's all. Everything else is very interesting! Lol

David- I agree with gnni. Probably not gonna get the big reveal. But a stunt casting would be a good time!

crashriprock said...

Didnt Alvar Hanso stay with the Gerald DeGoot when he went to ann arbor.

and wasnt Hugo de Groot a dutch philosopher?

David Salako said...

Good one gnni4 regarding Jack's tattoos, lol!
They - the tattoos - may factor into the endgame he is brazenly heading towards.
It's funny that he really seems to "get it" on the island that together our oceanic losties and their allies are pretty formidable and may be able to take down both MIB and Sir Jacob!

David Salako said...

Not buying Ben's "reformation" completely either - I believe he may still have a few tricks up his sleeve against Widmore. He may not be "evil" anymore - whatever that means on this show - but he is a man that always had a plan - such habits don't just go away!

gnni4 said...

I've really enjoyed the character of Ben also David. In 'Dead is Dead' he shows his true, real self when he is being judged. When he sees Alex, the sigh he gives, just about broke my heart. Again when he see's little Charlie, he has a soft spot for children. The character is complex, and I hope that he is more than just a bumbling follower now.

I also wonder if 'What lies in the shadow of the statue' could be Ben? That would be great if he is the one to save them all!

crashriprock said...

This is really weird regardless of how this all turns out.

In the actual real world plane crash on Tenerife island
it was originaly reported that there were 235 passengers on the KLM flight that had dies

A dutch woman by the name of
Robina van Lanschot was not actualy on the plane because she had decided to stay and visit her boy friend

Robina van Lanschot

is an anagram

alvar hanso not in bc

and one of the shows was not in portland
now if that isnt intentional
its just flat out freaky

Floreen said...

@gnni4 - My apologies and thank you for taking a stand for civility.

Floreen said...

@anonymous - teh good one that is.

Although nobody says so by name, and I can’t speak for Mike but to me it surely looks like it so far. Let’s hope Des and Jacob have another trick in their bags.

Floreen said...

@davidsalako - To me it looked like his flashes caused him to be out of sync with the regiments discipline and hopefully nothing more. I would admit that it looked like he was released out of a military jail as I remember but don’t quote me on that.

Floreen said...

@Mike V - That what you say it’s all true about Des, Ben etc. I was wondering this morning after the last post that maybe Des didn’t knew the full extent of his reset key and what it would really do. It is possible that he thought he’ll put a stop to the madness with the energy pocket getting out of hand.

Along the line with Ben, I am still puzzled of the thing with John and Ben when Ben was a prisoner, the Lockdown kicked in and Ben went through the vents, opened the blast doors and supposedly pushed the button. You remember what Ben said so that falls in line with the ‘bug’ been planted.

After reading you post about Locke and claimed, I thought, since due to the kind nature of John as we knew it before Flockey, Smokey maybe didn’t even had to claim him, but read his mind and exploit that kindness into a long con.

Okay with Ethan. And I have to put him the bad category. As with Daniel, I remember an episode where when they drilling and building the orchid, they went too far touching the pocket of energy. Daniel is not shown right away, but when Chang who was called to the scene passes by, a worker lifts his head and we see Daniel under that miner hat. I think that’s the first time we saw that Daniel was on the island before even if only temporary. And in sideways didn’t he had a chat with baby Charlotte?

I guess you’re right on Jacob and his ranking. Do not let it bother you. As soon as I have a positive proof that he’s bad, I will demote him instantly, or as soon as I can post it. But you fellows feel free to have your rankings, I won’t argue.

Candidate said...

@Mike. Thanks so much for breaking the Christian scenes down in chronological order. Some answers we just got to accept like it or not. So I guess I have accepted that it was Smokey/Christian at the donkey wheel... and I'm ready to move on. Yay!! I know I have been harping on this scene for weeks now, so I guess it's closure time. Again thanks for this blog and forum. I've so very much have enjoyed being on board. Best Lost Blog....EVER... AND absolutely take credit/responsabilty along w/ Florin for the opening of Season 5 DVD Dharma notebook version at my house. (I got the special ship DI patch which I've heard is rare) and yes of course...feel free to "chime in" anytime...LOL It is YOUR blog after all. cheerz!

Candidate said...

@ Florin. wow! great trivia w/ 20,000 leagues under the sea. I am just now reading some comments I missed last night and than will read todays. Just read your "List" good and bad rating. Juliet tied with Michael??? C'monnnn. Remember Juliet was conned by Alpert and The Others. I see her experiments pre-Island brave and brilliant AND succesful. Yes desperate measures required her to off a few people in self defense or in defense of our main characters. The Jughead detonation (IF it did go off) was a leap of faith as she was convinced by Jack... and Juliet was a great woman for Sawyer. She changed Sawyer for the better I say. Michael.... on the other hand is a straight up loser. His redemption was forced upon him because the Island would not let him take the cowards way out (suicide.) Killing Ana Lucia and Libby in cold blood and trading off Jack Sawyer and Kate and bringing along Hurley for the ride was unforgivable. I would say worse than cooper. Michael could've been straight w/ Jack and devoloped a different plan to get Walt back. So I gotta say No way to Juliet tied w/ Michael. Cheerz

joe said...

Hi Mike,

Here's another question. It may have already been discussed, but I didn't see any comments about it.

If Juliet had a "merged" consciousness prior to her death, and if Jack is having a similar experience after his near-death encounter (as we believe he might be having), then should we assume that it also happened to Sayid when he was being held under water in the temple pool? If so, then he seems to have lost it when he came back to life. Maybe the fact that he already had it, made it easier for Desmond to revive it again. Could this be why Jacob wanted Hugo to take Sayid to the temple?

This could relate to the question of what brought Sayid back to life. Sayid thinks that MiB did it, but I don't think MiB has taken credit for it or has even given indication that he knows that Sayid was dead (or has he?).

And then, what about Dogen? He was killed in the same place and in the same manner as Sayid. Was his consciousness merged also? Could he have also come back to life? He is not a candidate and was not on the plane, but neither was Juliet.

EJ said...

Now that we're into Season 6, this youtube post is a touch outdated (plus there are a few questions the authors wouldn't have if they read this blog!), but I just stumbled onto it and think you all might like it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1PAB6Sgdp8&feature=related

Floreen said...

@candidate - Thank you for your comments. 20.000 leagues under the see is my second fav of Jules Verne. This guy after which the scotch-whiskey was named in the show was a real British Admiral back in the Victorian era too. Reading the posts from crash, I can not help but wonder to what extent did the writers/producers went out of their way to do the research and put together this tapestry woven in the show. Big credit to them.

With Juliet I have to agree with you to a great extent. I should have said reluctantly tie with Michael. I gave her the credit that she came around 180%, no doubt about it and I was happy to see that she redeemed herself a lot, but she blackmailed Sayid and Sawyer even so and she did the things she did.

I would kindly disagree with you that she was in self-defence. It was her ‘choice’ to jump into something not clear what. Remember how she drank the glass of juice with tranquillising in one gulp? Even Ethan and Richard were surprised. That one little mistake in her life, Eloise, Michael, and so on, even Jack was enough to hurt them badly. Personally, if I had to knock myself out unconscious, and she if a woman alone with two males, I would had gave it a second thought at least, if I want to continue or not.

I’ll see how things goes and if a happy ending comes along, I’ll bump up in the good list a lot f characters I am not in agreement with right now.

Floreen said...

@candidate - I guess Michael could be worse than Cooper, but I would have to cut Michael some slack here and that piece has a name on it; Walt. Other than that I guess the manipulative wife comes to mind.

In rest I agree with you, he could’ve work with the Losties instead of leading them into the ambush just as you said and many actually should’ve, could’ve been honest with each other. At one point I had to agree with John Locke when he let the truth out to the whole group about other people been on the island. Jack Shepard was a big disappointment there with the ‘live together or die alone’. He didn’t lived up to it.

Cooper was worse. He conned his own son, even went so far to almost have his own son killed, and all he cared was himself.

Floreen said...

@joe - I’ll chime in here with your permission and addressing Mike. I do not remember Juliet’s merger, she just banged the device and pouf it went. She wasn’t on the list, but neither was Jack according with Ben or Danny and she wasn’t visited by Jacob. Only Miles confirmed to Sawyer that ‘it worked’. Mike?...

Floreen said...

@Mike V - I do not remember if we discussed Jack’s tattoos. What deep meaning might be to the ‘he walks among us but he’s not one of us?’

crashriprock said...

I have checking out this Tenerife real world disaster in 1977 and I have chased that weasel of possibility around the mulberry timeline bush so many times the white board in my studio looks like Dyson Frost garden of forking paths.

That 1977 disaster is a very compelling story of one person not getting on the flight and Im thinking that it may just have been an insparation for the show Lost but may not be a part of it other than the anamgrams and the actual numbers 234.

234 is the most compelling number in the real life story. 234 has three of our canidates numbers in it 4 - 23 - 42...Locke Jack and we are still not sure if 42 is Sun of Jin... im starting to think both

Desmond wasnt on the original flight 815 but he is on the sideways 815 which means one of the sideways canidates wasnt suppose to be there.

Here is what Im thinking I hope at this hour it is coherent
What if 2004 Jin some how sacrifices himself and 2007 Sun sacrifices herself I say 2007 sun because in the 2007 timeline her last name is kwon.

What if after the two sacrifices the 2004 Sun ends up win the 2007 Jin and the 2004 Jin ends up on the island with the 2007 Sun as adam and eve.

Suns story at the original airport before the flight of 815 when she is planning to leave Jin is the polar oposite to what happened in the real life 1977 disaster when Robina van Lanschot didnt board her flight and went to see her boy friend.

Mike V. said...

Okay, here's my responses to the current round and I'm gonna be brief. If I'm ever going to get another post up before next week's recap, I'm going need to focus on that!! lol

@gnni/david - I think I missed the first comment discussing possibilities for sequels. But I agree. Damon and Carlton have said they are FINISHING their story. No movie openings. This is it. But....Damon did go on record saying he would be a hypocrite if he told someone to not try a "REBOOT" of LOST one day (since he's working on Star Trek lol) I can't see how they'd possibly redo LOST, but I'm sure that's been said about other shows too. They would have to approach the show from a brand new angle. And possibly have different mysteries to solve. But, we're talking like 20 years down the road! lol Then again, I'm sure ABC will have plans to keep the brand alive in some way or form.

@Crash - I believe Alvar was only a financial backer for DHARMA. Not sure how much time he spent with DeGroot at Ann Arbor. I thought Hanso lived overseas somewhere, but I could be wrong. I'm sure lostpedia would solve that issue for us! lol I'm sure that there is some philosopher named DeGroot too...which would keep in the theme of LOST naming characters after philosophers that stand for certain principles.

@David - I completely agree with Ben. He'll have something up his sleeve before the end. But I'd hate for anything to taint his redemption episode of Dr. Linus. I'm sure LOST will find a way in the battle of Ben vs. Widmore. I actually mentioned this exact thing in my updated 23 Mysteries post I'm working on for tomorrow. (or if not tomorrow, some time this week)

@gnni - I think I just figured the "shadow of the statue" thing was resolved in that it's Jacob. But I guess they could always bring it back! lol

@crash - I do find all of this Tenerife Plane Crash stuff fascinating, but I will go on record saying that I do not think we're going to find out in the end that LOST ISLAND is Tenerife Island or that the plane crash is BASED on this plane crash lol Then again, they did decide to bring up Tenerife in this final season, so maybe they did want us to compare the 2 events. The Anagram is very freaky! lol But I'm going to go with coincidental! What would "IN BC" mean anyway? British Columbia? lol

@Florin - yes Desmond was released out of a military jail but we never learned exactly why he was there. Yeah maybe the flashes had something to do with it, but it was never clear! Then again, when is anything clear on LOST? lol

As for blowing the hatch...Desmond definitely DIDN'T know what would happen when he turned that key. He probably thought he was going to die. Kelvin even said that's why he didn't turn the key...he didn't know what would happen. Desmond even tells Hurley in season 3 that's why he never turned the key before...he didn't know what would happen. He then realized it was his destiny to turn that key after he realized he had a chance meeting with Locke on the night he was going to kill himself in the hatch. Locke started banging on the window (the night boone died)...blah blah blah we know the story. But then Desmond was willing to sacrifice his life to safe the world.

Now with Smokey reading Locke's thoughts in earlier seasons...YES...I am definitely on board with that.

And hey, you can rank the characters however you want...I'm not gonna stop you! lol I just questioned your thoughts on a few of them. I get it now.

Mike V. said...

@Candidate - You're welcome for the Christian stuff. I don't remember doing that in Chronological order, but I'm sure there is lots of stuff I posted that I don't remember! lol Glad you're on board with Smokey/Christian at the Donkey wheel. I think even Claire talking to Jack "so did he tell you he was pretending to be our father?" even seals the deal a little more...since Claire saw him in that flannel shirt. I appreciate the major props on the blog. Even the claim that it's the BEST LOST BLOG ever! Not sure if I could ever agree without coming off as a bit egotistical! So I'll say that all of you guys are the BEST READERS and CONTRIBUTORS EVER! LOL

And I got very jealous when you started talking about your DHARMA Collector's edition of Season 5. I just couldn't justify the price of it. What kind of LOST fan am I? But I still justified re-buying Seasons 1 and 2 on blu-ray the week they came out LOL Now, the big question will be if I can convince my wife that I need the COMPLETE SERIES Gift Set when it comes out when I'll already own seasons 1-6 on blu! lol

@Joe - Definitely a good question about Sayid. I had actually pondered at one point if Sideways Sayid has inhabited Island Sayid lol But yeah...you'd think since Sayid had a near-death and DEATH experience that it might somehow be sideways related. I think Jacob wanted Hugo to take Sayid to the temple because they did have that healing spring...and they needed the candidates to be protected. And, the writers promised us an answer on the TEMPLE! lol But yeah, it could also be sideways related too.

We haven't seen MIB take credit for Sayid's revival. Maybe he told him it off camera! And Sayid saying it is confirmation of why Sayid went all Darth Vader on us in the Temple. lol Good question on Dogen. I think we had all asked the same thing since he was killed in the healing spring that maybe he'd come back lol BTW...Juliet WAS a candidate...her name was on the wall "BURKE" Not sure where I'm going with that, just confirming it! lol

@EJ - loved that video lol Yeah we definitely got some of those answers but there are others that we're still questioning. I would have given up on the JIN one though (exploding off the freighter and time traveling).....still a good time! Even if the writers did make stuff up as they went along, they deserve props for keeping us interested for 6 seasons. That may be a cop out for me to say, but I still have faith that I'll be satisfied by the end!

@Florin - I try to pretend that the Jack Tattoo episode never happened. LOL (i think the writers do too) But yeah the whole "walks among us but he's not one of us" definitely has some christian ties to it....referring to the lord and savior Jesus Christ...also referred to as a "Shepherd"....so one could consider this makes Jack the prime candidate to replace Jacob. IF one could consider Jacob good of course. Of course Jack said "that's what it says that's not what it means" that episode was pure garbage! Maybe they'll tie the stuff into the end game, but I dunno!

@Crash - nice reference to FlashForward lol I see now that you're just comparing events from the Tenerife plane crash to LOST and not suggesting they're one of the same. Interesting thoughts on Sun and Jin becoming Adam and Eve...but where's the part where they time travel back 50 years and DIE in the caves? lol

Okay..that's it for me now!! Gotta go to work!

Anonymous said...

Any chance we'll see Ben finding a loop hole and killing Widmore?

Revenge has been one of the under tones in Lost.

Mike V. said...

@Anonymous - I would love it if Ben killed Widmore in the end. Definitely would be a fitting conclusion to that arc!

crashriprock said...

well if Sun and Jin end up in sideways land who's to say that they were that old in this alternate time line.

Plus I was just using Adam and Eve for or in place of "ending up on the Island or lala Lost and found land"

David Salako said...

He shouldn't kill Widmore before we find out just what it is EXACTLY that he is doing all that he has been doing for!
I trust that both he and Eloise have motivations that go beyond just their own personal desires!

crashriprock said...

I just want to know if there is a prize some where on the net for figuring out the Alvar Hanso anagram :D

Candidate said...

@Florin. O.k. agreed on Michael somewhat on cutting him some slack (Walt.) He did get a few tough breaks... Walt taken away from him and randomly forced to take him back suddenly 10 some odd years later. I really did feel for him there.
Juliet I really hated her at first most of season 3. (Messing around w/ someone elses husband and a few other bad first impressions to say the least.) I'm not remembering the scene with the juice. Which ep is that in? I think another rewatch is in order for me.

@everyone Does anyone know if tonights rerun will be the enhanced version? I think Mike said yes on that but not sure. Cheerz

Anonymous said...

I can't help but think that the vast majority of viewers are missing an amazing aspect of how the story of Lost is told. I see a lot of people complaining about how Ilana died, this week. In and of itself, Ilana's death was contrived and lame.

But her death was not a stand-alone thing. It is part of a huge story that has been carefully crafted and woven together since Season 1. They say history repeats itself, but on this island, this is true to the Nth degree. We are seeing the same situations and scenarios play out, over and over again. It mostly follows a patter of Season 6 mirroring Season 1..... and 5 mirroring 2 .... and 4 mirroring 3. So it is kind of like an A-B-C-C-B-A pattern. Mirror image. (Hence the mirror references in the final season, to draw attention to the idea of mirror-imaging.) The show has always been about duality -- black&white, free will&destiny, the Losties and vs Others, Locke vs Ben, the beach vs the jungle/cave, Jacob vs the MIB, and on and on and on. Even that stupid novel manuscript "bad twin." What a goofy form of foreshadowing that was... from Season 1 to Season 6, that is! Duality is at the heart of the design of the whole show, and the mirror-image structure of th! e storytelling is a major tool to demonstrate this in both obvious and subtle ways.

I could go on for pages and pages of examples of this phenomenon, and this is actually my single favorite aspect of the storytelling on the show! And Ilana's death is YET another example of this pattern. Her death replicates the death of Arzt in Season 1, and this is intentional, part of an intentional, grander and more intricate pattern. Here are a few other, quick examples:

Remember how Sayid was tied down on a table, electrical wires attached to him to shock him, in order to aquire information about him, in a dwelling place that is hidden within the jungle. This was carried out by someone who lost their child and doesn't know if they'll ever see their child again. This happened in Season 1 . . . and Season 6!

More following........

-Jackson

Anonymous said...

SEASON 1 - While searching for answers to the island's mysteries, Jack is led by a mysterious man to find a cave, next to water. Inside is a black stone and a white stone, and various personal belongings, including a baseball bat. Alongside the cave is Charlie's guitar. Christian's body appears to have been removed. Jack almost fell off a cliff while searching for his father, and this led him to the cave. But, Locke reached out and took his hand and saved him.

SEASON 6 - While searching for answers to the island's mysteries, Sawyer is led by a mysterious man (FLocke) to a cave next to water. Inside is a black stone and a white stone, and various personal belongings, including a baseball glove. Just inside the cave is a lute (an ancient guitar). The name of Locke (who took Christian's place on Ajira 816) is removed, crossed out. Sawyer almost falls of a cliff while being taken to this cave, but FLocke reaches out and takes his hand and saves him.
------------------------

SEASON 1 - Sun, an Asian character who hides many secrets, shows her skill at healing with herbal remedies.

SEASON 6 - Dogen, an Asian character who hides many secrets, shows his skill in the use of herbal medicines.
------------------------

SEASON 1 - Sun can speak English, while Jin can't.

SEASON 6 - Jin can speak English, while Sun can't.
------------------------

SEASON 1 - Sayid is a man who is ashamed of his violent past, and of how certain authority figures pressed him into service to them, to hurt innocent people for his boss's gain. Sayid's leg is injured in the process of being caught in a trap. He is caught by the person who set the trap, Rousseau. He passes out, and she takes him to her hidden home, where she interrogates him about her child, which she says was kidnapped by the Others.

SEASON 6 - Jin is a man who is ashamed of his violent past, and of how certain authority figures pressed him into service to them, to hurt innocent people for his boss's gain. Jin's leg is injured when he is caught in a trap. He is caught by the person who set the trap, Claire. He passes out, and she takes him to her hidden home, where she interrogates someone else she captured along with Jin, asking him about her child, which she says was kidnapped by the Others.


more following.....

-Jackson

Anonymous said...

SEASON 1 - Hurley decides that everyone needs to know who each other is, so he starts a census, which leads him to getting the ship manifest with the list of all the survivors on it. Many of the names are crossed off, having been "eliminated" (by death) in the crash or immediately afterward. By going over the list, Hurley figures out that one of the survivors is not a survivor, but is really an outsider pretending to be one of them... someone who had already been on the island for a long time!

SEASON 6 - Hurley is used by Jacob to take Jack to the Lighthouse, where they find the mirrors and the giant dial with the names of all of the candidates written on it. Many of the names are crossed out, having been eliminated. Meanwhile, FLocke takes Sawyer (who in Season 1 had the manifest) to the cave by the sea, and also shows him the names of candidates. Many are crossed off. It is around this time that Sawyer also learns that Locke is not really Locke, at all. He is an outsider pretending to be a survivor... but is really someone who had already been on the island for a long time!
-----------------------

SEASON 2 - Desmond is waiting for his replacement, and uses a riddle as a password to determine whether a person is there to help with his mission. (What did one snowman say to the other snowman? "Smells like carrots.") Note: this riddle also appeared in Season 1, briefly, before Desmond ever appeared.

SEASON 5 - Ilana is searching for Jacob's replacement, and uses a riddle as a password to determine whether someone is involved in her mission. (What lies in the shadow of the statue? "He who will save us all.") Note: this riddle also appears in Season 6, thus mirroring Season 1, while 2 mirrors 5.
-----------------------

SEASON 2 - Jin appears to have been completely lost at sea, possibly dead, after the raft he's on is destroyed by an explosive. There is no sign of him. However, later, he is found on the island, having washed ashore there.

SEASON 5 - Jin appears to have been completely lost at sea, possibly dead, after the ship he's on is destroyed by an explosive. There is no sign of him. However, later, he is found on the island, having washed ashore there.
------------------

SEASON 2 - Sawyer tells Jin his arm is going to fall off.

SEASON 5 - Jin sees the French science team member's arm ripped off.
----------------

SEASON 2: The survivors explored a lot of the various hatches and locations of Dharma. Several of the survivors are taken prisoner by the Others and stay with them for a while in one of the Dharma locations. They are gone from the survivors camp for nearly 3 weeks.

SEASON 5: Some of the survivors went to the Dharma village, where they lived for 3 years among the Dharma people, going around to a lot of the Dharma hatches and locations.
----------------

SEASON 2: Sawyer gets possession of all of the guns and declares himself "sheriff"

SEASON 5: Sawyer is put in charge of the guns as he becomes the Dharma sheriff
--------------------

SEASON 2: Ben (aka Henry Gale) is tortured by Sayid and held captive by Jack and other survivors, but one of the survivors betrays the rest by risking everything to rescue Ben, even though he knows Ben is the leader of the Others and is responsible for many terrible things.

SEASON 5: A young Ben is shot by Sayid. Jack and others stand by and refuse to help Ben, but another survivor takes it upon herself to risk everything to rescue young Ben, even knowing he will be the leader of the Others and will be responsible for many terrible things.

-Jackson

EJ said...

I expect tonight's version will be the enhanced Ab Aeterno, as it was the first episode not to re-air at 8 pm the following week (because of Dancing With the Stars.... I just about DIED when that happened! I mean, DWTS! Really?!?!? We're busy with LOST - Season 6 here!!!).

I also thought a little today about how Hurley is so lucky in Sideways Time and recalled that he was pretty lucky in the Real Timeline, too. Remember in the NUMBERS episode (?) how everyone around him was hurt or died, but he was shielded -- that's why the numbers were "cursed" for him. He even walked on that rickety bridge across the gorge followed by Charlie, Locke (?) and Jack before it fell away -- because he believed he wouldn't be hurt... may or may not mean anything, just a thought.

Glad you liked the youtube, Mike! You have been a real trooper on the blog this week! You're at over 300 entries! Congrats!

Anonymous said...

SEASON 2: They found their way to the hatch. They argued over whether to do something (push the button) in the hatch. The season ended with a lot of arguing over whether to push the button, and finally they don't push the button, and BOOM!

SEASON 5: They found their way to (what would be) the hatch, where they argued over whether to use some modern technology (bomb) to counteract the island's dangerous "energy." And then "pushed the button" and blew it up (or more accurately, it imploded, just like the hatch did in Season 2).

(Note: "Pushing the button" is an old euphemism from the Cold War days that referred to dropping a nuclear weapon.)
-------------------------

SEASON 3 - Introduces mystery of the people from the Kahana

SEASON 4 - Reveals the truth about the people from the Kahana
-------------------

SEASON 3 - Juliet tries to conspire to kill Ben when he is helpless, but Jack refuses and saves him. Ben lives.

SEASON 4 - Sayid conspires to kill Ben when he is helpless (a child), Jack refuses to save him. Ben lives.
----------------

SEASON 3 - Ben shoots Locke and leaves him for dead in the mass grave. Locke tries to commit suicide, but fails.

SEASON 4 - Locke tries to commit suicide, but fails. Then, Ben kills Locke. (Reverse order from what happened in Season 3)
------------------

SEASON 3 - Hatch catastrophically implodes, causing Desmond to bounce around in time

SEASON 4 - Donkey Wheel breaks, catastrophically effecting the island and causing survivors to bounce around in time
. . . . . [note: in Season 2, Locke lowers Kate down into the hatch flume, but something interrupts it and she disappears,
and then in Season 5, Locke is lowered into the well above the Donkey Wheel, but is interrupted and he falls and disappears]
---------------

SEASON 4 - Ben turns donkey wheel, goes to outside world and recruits Sayid

SEASON 5 - Locke turns donkey wheel, goes to outside world to recruit other survivors
--------------

SEASON 4 - Desmond starts out without Penny, ends up with her

SEASON 5 - Desmond starts with Penny, ends up shot and thus taken away from her

. . .

One of my favorite (although more minor) examples is the "return" of Charlie's peanut butter, a couple episodes ago in Season 6. Remember Charlie's (imaginary) peanut butter, which he offered to Claire to try to lift her spirits in Season 1? Just recently, in the Smoking Club's camp, Sawyer came up next to Kate and offered her some "hot cocoa" to try to make her feel better. She asked where she found some hot cocoa on the island...? "I didn't," he said. "Just pretend." I had to laugh out loud at that one!

There are other examples I could cite. This is just a few, because the list is too long to post here, completely. But these show a clear and definite pattern. And Ilana's death is a part of that very intentional pattern. Yes, it's contrived... for a reason. Season 1 was giving us numerous pictures of what we would see in the final season! And Season 2 showed us many things we could expect to see in the next-to-last season, and so on! And I, for one, think it's awesome! On this island, history repeats itself... to the extreme. And no matter how much free will you try to exercise... this "curse" will catch up with you and make you a part of its mirror-image storytelling.

-Jackson

crashriprock said...

jackson

Maybe the mirror theme in this show comes from the serenity prayer at AA

God grant me the serenity to except the things I cannot change
the courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Anonymous said...

@Jackson - you make some valid points on the looping of events, and I think everyone can appreciate the interesting occurrance of our main characters in regard to the story telling.

I think folks were surprised of which Character got the Artz treatment. Ilana appeared to have a purpose, unlike Artz but whatever, we get it. Thanks for the abbreviated list ;-) LOL.

V

Floreen said...

@candidate - I think the episode is ‘Portland’ but don’t quote me on it yet. I have a errand to run so I’ll look it up later. Unless Mike chimes in faster. Agree with Michael and I’ll tie in a few more with Juliet. Mike did a good job with the name ‘Burke on the wheel or the wall, what was it?

Floreen said...

@all - In my part of the country they're no longer reruns. We only have now the Dancing with the stars.

Floreen said...

@EJ - Good job with the mirror effect you noticed. it could be also described as a loop effect, loophole, circle.

Anonymous said...

@Florin

Give credit where credit is due. I think you got the wrong person there.

crashriprock said...

Didnt Atrz give Ben a chance at becoming principle in sideways land
and in 2007 then LLana gave Ben a second chance after which Ben reflecting on her death ponders

"makes you think what the island will do with us when its finished with us"

ok thats not exact I dont have any of the fancy DVD collections :)

Mike V. said...

Hey all - like I mentioned, I'm focusing on writing up my Hiatus Blog Post (and you know...actual work! lol) ...so I'm going to be brief with comment responses. I'm just gonna touch on a few comments.

@David - agreed...I want to know what Widmore is up to...but in a climactic battle in the finale..I wouldn't mind seeing Ben get his revenge on Widmore.

@Crash - LOL don't know about that anagram prize, but still was funny! As for the Adam and Eve thing...okay, I was just throwing out the question! I have no idea where they're going with that one, but I'm sure we'll get a kick out of the answer whatever it is.

@Candidate - As others said, I'm pretty sure tonight will be Enhanced. I don't have any proof to back it up besides the fact that every other time they reaired an episode since the end of season 3, it's been enhanced lol As for the scene with the Juice...it was in "ONE OF US" Not in portland was all "OFF ISLAND" stuff...just Richard recruiting her to come to the island. ....I loved Juliet's character right from the beginning of season 3. She was one of the good things to watch in those first 6 episodes! lol But yeah...her taking the juice is actually in ONE OF US (season 3)

@Jackson - I'm going to have to read them all in more detail when I get a chance, but it's a very nice summary of mirrored moments in the show!

@EJ - yep, Hurley felt the numbers were cursed and that he was bad luck. but i think he knew that things only happened to people around him but not him....which I figured would explain why he had no problem crossing that bridge or jumping past the rousseau trap "I'm spry" (LOL loved it) Eh, but who knows? lol Thanks on the trooper comment! It's been kinda nuts. And I guess thanks for the congrats too lol! Don't worry, if all goes according to plan, we'll have a clean slate to start with tomorrow!

@V - I still loved Ilana blowing up! lol And I thought Ben's line later summed it up perfectly - she seemed to have served her purpose and then the island was DONE with her. I like that it brought that theme back up to the surface for these final episodes. Would I have liked more info on Ilana? Sure, but I can live without it!

Anonymous said...

Mike,

Feel free to include any or all of it in your off week summary. I knew everyone and you especially took an interest in the mirror issue so I took it upon myself to do some further analysis.

-Jackson

crashriprock said...

Mike
the only reason I asked is because this whole lost web enterpise seems to have had alot of websites that had like secret codes to get on and you would then see trailers or ipod casts of the producers
but all the web Ive seen lately is old stuff. I dont have regular tv so I dont know if maybe they have had some promos or anything
so I was hoping if anyone knew of anything current from the Lost producers ... maybe I can get us in.
ps when I posted that anagram then refreshed to make sure it posted my next word puzzle was.. prize
lol

crashriprock said...

I know I have been posting things that are outside of the "Lost Canon" But I am looking for things that have real life simularities to the show.( I have a lot of spare time these days) If this is bothersome them tell me and Ill stop.

If not check this out
Theres an explorer named Thor Heyerdahl his thesis on ancient times was that egypt and the mayans were connected in the ancient world. He built a conoe made of reeds from the nile and sailed it across the atlanic.
anyway he first surmised his theory after finding some pyramids in a european province of spain in a town called Giumar.
They were called "The LOST pyramids of Guimar" Guimar is a town north of Los Christianos on the island of TENERIFE.
and the pyramids were made of...

Black Rock
lava rock to be exact

Like I said I dont think this will have anything to do with the story but I can see Tenerife being the inspiration for Lost because Thor Heyerdahl thought that the Guimar site was a "temporal resting place" (his words) between egypt and the mayan civilization.

Weasel said...

@crashriprock: i vote keep posting... very interesting stuff, even if it had no impact on the show

Mike V. said...

Just FYI - I'm getting a little tired of the SPAM comments on the blog. If you actually do care, whoever you are, enough to read the blog and do enjoy reading some of the comments then please continue to do so. If you have a problem with anyone's comments in particular, there is a simple thing you can do...Don't Read them!

Impersonating other commenters on the blog is not cool. I would hate to have to go to a place where I need to start moderating comments. Really do not have the patience or the time to do so. So, please everyone....all I ask of you is to play along nicely. We have 5-ish weeks left. I think we can handle it!

Mike V. said...

@Jackson - I'll see what I can do...it's probably going to be a pretty long post as it is! LOL You know how I get on those crazy blog posts!

gnni4 said...

Lostomancy - The practice of finding references to the fictional television show Lost in many real world events. A form of Stichomancy (divination from lines) the 3,000-year-old practice of seeking divination from random passages of books. Another form of Stichomancy is bibliomancy (opening a bible at random for divination) being the most practiced form to date.

gnni4 said...

Lostomancy is practiced in spurts of hyperactivity by LOST fans with the use of a computer search engine. These fans find themselves feverishly clicking from one web page link to another, often while sleep deprived, always believing themselves to be on the verge of an epiphany to the minds of the creators (of the television show). Most common tools in the aid of Lostomancy are an internet search engine, a pen and pad of paper or white board and the internet site www.wordsmith.org/anagram, in conjunction with Lostopedia, and DVD sets of the series, which they watch repeatedly, often frame by frame or backwards.

Surprisingly, this phenomenon is practiced by nearly all true LOST fans at some time during their epoch of watching the series, with episodes lasting from several hours to several days -or- in extreme cases weeks to months. Quite often the fans report recurrences of the practice, and have reported often not even being able themselves to understand much of their writings when the phase passes. Many fans report sleepless nights, with fitful dreams where they chase answers to the show, like chasing Christian Shepard through the jungle, trying to connect dots and open doors to answers, only to reveal more doors and more dots.

Many fans struck with Lostomancy write fan fiction or theories, posting them on internet websites such as DarkUFO, Lostopedia, and often type ADDICTED TO LOST into their search engine, leading them to this site.

--------Or at least that is how I came to find LostAddictsBlog!

Glad to have your Lostomancic thoughts here Crash!

Mike V. said...

Gnni - love that!! lol Good stuff. And totally agree.

Weasel said...

@gnni4: Awesome! I'm afraid I am afflicted

crashriprock said...

Gnni4
This is the most I had done on the web since it started.
I can see alot of truth in what you posted because it does kind of sneak up and pull you into the web verse.
I have been watching Lost on hulu and then I always read Mikes blog afterwards because I liked his the best.
I think tho the hook at least for me when the series started was WTF is the smoke monster.

The thing is I think they may have a spin off from this story not the same story more like what Frasier was to Cheers.
Because they will have enough material to drive this magical mystery tour so far down the rabbit hole that Walter Bishop couldnt find them in a parallel universe. :)

David Salako said...

@Jackson - great examples of mirrored moments.
I do think that the one below though was in season 5 and not season 4 - "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham". Locke's attempted suicide wasn't shown until then although one could argue that it had happened when that surprise Flash Forward occurred at the end of season 3.

SEASON 3 - Ben shoots Locke and leaves him for dead in the mass grave. Locke tries to commit suicide, but fails.

SEASON 4 - Locke tries to commit suicide, but fails. Then, Ben kills Locke. (Reverse order from what happened in Season 3)

Candidate said...

@ Jackson Some great thoughts put into writing with mirroring. AS the Titus W version of smokey said "...It always ends the same."
@Ginni4 LOL. great thesis on Lostomancy I would love to post that on my FB page w/ your permission.
@Crashriprock Intersting posts.
@Mike V Thanks for everything. I'm not sure what posts you are talking about concerning spamming. Maybe you are deleting them before I get a chance to get caught up on the comments??
@Mike and Florin O.K. I remember the juice bit now. Took me a minute. Richard and Ethan gave her the choice to go w/ them or not and she drank the whole glass of juice/tranq for the sub trek to the Island.
I guess thats all for now...getting ready for Enhanced Ab Aeterno in less than 40 minutes. Cheerz

Floreen said...

@all - Let me be the second to Mike V to acknowledge and congratulate all who positively contributed and still do so.

Floreen said...

@good anonymous - I am trying to give credit were there are due, but sometimes I get confused with the many posts. Feel free to correct me when I am wrong and point those in the right direction, I would appreciate that. I want to be fair to all.

Floreen said...

@gnni4 - I am a fan of the wordsmith on a daily basis. I tried an anagram on my name. It almost crashed my browser. lol but thanks for the post. I can see myself in that a lot.

Floreen said...

@crash - Well, the Israelis under King Solomon were assumed to have been able to sail to South America for silver and other rare metals. Although the Bible doesn’t say so, when you compute how long would take the Israeli ships to make the voyage, it equals to the time frames Solomon was regularly receiving such treasures especially when you consider that the Biblical area of Israel has no such mineral deposits.

On coat to coast am radio, there was a program about the Chinese building massive ships with olympic size pools and stables for animals, almost a floating city there if you want and it is assumed that they discovered America before the Europeans. I’ve seen some drawings about it. It was interesting. Maybe the website is still up.

Floreen said...

@candidate - Okay, Juliet and Michael. As I said Michael has Walt for a piece of slack. But today thinking over your post I remembered that Juliet to her credit has one too and that’s why I tied them together. Her excuse is her sister.

The way I saw her was that her parents divorced and here’s a family issue now, not just daddy or mommy issues taking place. She grew up embittered and distrustful. I appreciate her for the professionalism that led her to be a leading medial scientist. Her past however did her in.

She did stole medical supplies for her sister.
She did the unethical trials with the consent of her sister.
Should had one thing go wrong, her ex-husband would had been ruined and thrown in jail.

But so far so good. Things went well and her husband proposed to overlook her violations and market the new drug. Juliet had a chance to redeem herself right there and avoid the pain which came later. She choose to take the drug with her upon quitting her ex-husband medical research unit and that was the little mistake which turned up to be her downfall.
On the island she did good in the end, granted, but did she did so to punish Ben, did she switched sides with the Losties because she saw that they had the better chance to leave the island? I ask that because I could not understand why didn’t she communicated with Jack or Sawyer or Kate that she’s on their side? Why did she do the crop she did, hitting Jack, putting the gun to Kate etc.? That’s the reason in better details as why I put her in the bad category.

Thank you Mike, I knew you’ll chime in in a nick of time.

David Salako said...

Watched the season 5 episode "Dead id Dead" again and boy is it creepy when Ilana and her guys are on the beach on the Hydra Island preparing THE CRATE and Ben walks by to talk to FLocke standing only a few feet away from THE CRATE. Ilana and crew had looked inside THE CRATE and knew at that point what FLocke was but kept it under wraps. FLocke is standing with bare feet on the sand just at the edge of the water and surf.

Mike V. said...

Just to clarify, yes I've deleted the spam posts. Trying not to bring much attention to them, but the simple fact that I'm talking about them is bringing too much attention! So this is it! :-) lol

Working on that LOST Blog for tomorrow folks! I'll catch you on there then!

Anonymous said...

WHERE IS WALT? THATS ALL I CARE ABOUT.... WAAAALLLLLLTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!


AND BRING BACK ANA LUCIA and MR EKO

WHY DID THEY KILL THEM OFF?????

but really and seriously bring back Walt.

explaining his age is not a problem because its been years since they arrived on the island.

Floreen said...

I though this Tue ep was supposed to be new one, at least according with the TV station and promo. Did I miss something?

Mike V. said...

Florin, I've been talking about for the past 3 weeks how this week was going to be a rerun! Hence, why I'm working on the HIATUS BLOG POST right now. Hopefully, I'll have it up in a bit lol

Anonymous - I actually talk about WALT in the hiatus post. As for Ana Lucia and Eko - you may be happy with the first one but due to some legal issues or something...we'll never see Eko again on LOST.

Miles Balzard said...

Things are really ramping up, aren't they? We're getting answers galore, and I feel like if we every getting everyone together in Sideways Land the timeline will just explode and suddenly everyone would "wake up" and the timelines would be merged. But I know it's not as simple as all that!

I really like how they are portraying Claire, Desmond, Hurley and Sayid as pivot points in the dynamic of conflict on the show. They've always been main characters but always took a back seat to Jack, Kate and Sawyer, but now the things they decide and the actions they take have an enormous influence on the outcome of everyone's destiny.

FINALLY we have Sun and Jin back together. Just for kicks, I'm putting my top eight (a nice Lost number) love stories in my order of preference!

Sun and Jin
Desmond and Penny
Sawyer and Juliet
Hugo and Libby
Rose and Bernard
Charlie and Claire
Locke and Helen
Sayid and Nadia (with a nod to Shannon)


Notice that Kate and Jack are nowhere to be found, HAHA! Who knows, maybe they will end up together and crack the top four! I'm just so happy that Sun and Jin got together and Jin better make good on his promise to never leave Sun for even a moment again!

I agree that Smokey is sure making John Locke out to be a fool, but like you Mike I'm hoping that Locke will somehow prove that he was wise to the game, even though there's absolutely no indication that is the case. As of right now, the score is Smokey 1, John Locke 0. But Ben is the one who actually killed John Locke and made all this possible, so I'm hoping the new, redeemed Ben (who seems to really like John in the sideways world) will find a way to deliver retribution on behalf of John. Jack may end being the hero, but the Island isn't done with Ben, either.

I sure hope Sayid changed back to his old self after not killing Desmond (we know damn well he didn't!). He's been such an enjoyable character and nobody's worked harder for redemption yet suffered through so many backslides, most of which were acts of desperation or necessity. We need Sayid to be a "good man" again because his skill set is such a big advantage for whoever has him on their side!

I don't think what Flocke said about impersonating Christian prevents Christian from also appearing as an apparition off the Island or on the freighter. The way I look at it, ghosts can be vividly imagined or even conjured up by anyone who has had their mind blown by the Island, so I just don't fret about "how could this happen if that happened?" That pretty much goes for most of the mysteries that are part of the Island's mystique.

Yeah, I really enjoyed this episode, but agree that it wasn't one of the all-time best despite the long-awaited reunion of Sun and Jin. But it was a solid stepping stone to what should be an amazing climax.

Mike V. said...

LOL on the Explosion Timeline Theory. That would certainly be interesting!

Interesting points on the backseat main characters. I would agree!

Good list on the LOST love stories. I might have a soft spot for Jack and Kate that I'd throw on the list. But, I'd certainly put Desmond/Penny and Sun and Jin up top. Probably Sawyer and Juliet. That one just hit us like a ton of bricks and was awesome!

I would think that Locke's actions are still in play due to the fact that the Candidates returned to the island in its most desperate hour. But, I would hope there would be more acknowledgement of John Locke's role in the show too. How that may happen? I can't say. :)

You're probably right on the Christian Shephard stuff. But, I did get over analytical about it as it was one of my pet peeves from the show. Even in the 1 year after LOST post, I found a way to justify it all. lol Even defying what the LOST Encyclopedia said!

I think you're going through my calendar posts in order and not my season by season links. But just in case you're not. There is a revisitng to the 23 Mysteries post that I posted during a 1 week hiatus prior to the remaining episodes of the show. Look for it!

aly said...

Argh, I wrote a whole thing out after work last night and was gonna post it this morning, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. I'm going to try to remember all I wrote, but I swear it was really good. Oh well.

So anyway, wow, not much time left at all for them to wrap everything up. Everything is now swirling in my head. It seems that my original theory of sidewaysland being the epilogue is disintegrating in front of my eyes. There is something so strange about sidewaysland though. I'm starting to think it always existed, otherwise how could the history of things be so different, such as Jack having a child?

It is then that sidewaysland is the actual reality, and everything we've come to know for five seasons is some sort of limbo land? (Argh, purgatory! Which I know can't be the case since you, Mike, are so adamently against it in the comments.) The actions of our characters on the island are affecting the way they live in sidewaysland, I'm pretty sure of it. It doesn't seem to be the case vice versa, though.

As far as Desmond goes, he's definitely different and I'm not so sure if he's even Desmond anymore. Could HE be the chosen candidate? He seems to be doing in sidewaysland what Jacob did in originalland. Him and Eloise seem to be the only people aware of both lands. I still can't figure out how this plays into the big picture though. Or how Smokey and Widmore play into it. I was thinking Smokey and Widmore are actually on the same side, in cahoots with each other. But then again, what about Ben? How much does he know? Does Widmore know more than Ben?

I think Smokey's trying to get all our characters into one place so he can kill them, but what I don't understand is why they need to be in the same place. Why not just pick them off, one by one? Is this part of the "rules" that he can't kill them? Is he trying to get Widmore to kill them? I don't understand these "rules" or who these kids that keep showing up are.

It's getting so weird! This season's been a very strange one, for sure. Hopefully the big payoff will come soon! I kind of think the show jumped shark last season, but I was too invested in some of the characters and figuring out what was going on to care. I still think the biggest shock for me was when we had the flash forward at the end of season 3 - that was incredible! Looking forward to watching the final episodes and figuring out what the hell has been going on all this time. :)

Mike V. said...

@Aly - So sorry I forgot to respond to this! Surely you've watched another episode (or more) by now, but I have some time so I figured I'd respond! lol

Sorry you lost your comment, for starters. I've had that issue in the past. Now, I usually highlight all the text I wrote and copy it before posting. And of course, if it's too large to fit into one comment, I usually put it in a "new email" and copy and paste the text over to post. The crazy things we do for being burned in the past! lol Looks like you may have remembered a lot of what you originally said!

Ahh...I want to comment on your flash sideways stuff, but I just can't. You're definitely speculating about the same stuff we were at that time. You will get your answer, and it will make sense. Well, I should say...some people interpreted the answer incorrectly. And on a show that is so intentionally ambiguous a lot of the time...it's tough to change people's minds on the very CONCRETE answer provided by the show on what Flash Sideways is in comparison to everything else we've seen. But, I have a feeling you'll get it! lol I've probably said too much already so I'm just going to shut up. :-)

As far as allegiances on the island...and who is working for whom (aka Charles Widmore)...they do explain some of it but I'll be the first to admit, some of that didn't make much sense and leaves a lot to be desired. But, it allowed certain events to transpire that made it worth it for me at least. Because, I had a mental "plot point" checklist of things that needed to happen to satisfy me in the final season. (I certainly had a checklist of questions that I was curious to the answers to as well). And well...the big plot closures that I wanted to see in the final season did get resolved. I can't say much else without spoiling what's to come. You're getting so close!

You're onto something with Smokey's intentions. As far as we know by the rules set in place by Jacob....Smokey cannot kill the candidates. But, we can assume there was a rule that he couldn't kill Jacob either, but he found a loophole as he mentioned. So, he may have found a loophole with Jacob's potential successors.

You will learn more about the "rules" (sorta) and the kid that keeps showing up for sure. Whether you like what is provided...well that's a different story! lol

Absolutely...the show's biggest shock was the Flash Forward. It's my favorite season finale of LOST and my 2nd favorite episode to The Constant. As for jumping the shark. I really have learned to hate that phrase...in fact, I think the phrase jumped the shark! lol The show definitely got weirder, but for me it was always about the characters placed on this weird journey. As long as they stayed interesting, I was on board. Season 5 is one of my favorite seasons to rewatch. It really is a great work of dramatic television from start to finish....if you don't try to poke holes in the logistics of it all of course! But the whole duping of Smokey for the 2nd half of the season makes it instantly rewatchable.

If anything, the series finale should be an emotional experience for you. Just don't go into it looking for a magical answer that will satisfy all of the questions brought up over the series. The answers are within the series for the most part. They just required us to think about it all in the context of the entire story when all was said and done. When I rewatched the show after the end, sure there are some plot holes...but for the most part it was a complete story from start to finish. And a well made one at that!

Simon Sandiford said...

Phew.... Got through the 5 billion comment 😀 great episode and blog post once again.. I note there is an update to the 23 mysteries post now before the next episode so I'll go there... I normally Google each blog post and it always gets me to the correct one top of google, but I'll use your main lost addicts site to get there for this in case I accidentally get Google telling me the ultimate in Lost answers! Not sure how many replies it will generate this next post... If less than 100 then I will get the next episode in tonight 😀

Mike V. said...

Simon, nice on the googling. You can use this link on my more recent blog to see ALL LOST blog links. It might help you navigate better. http://www.tvaddictsblog.com/p/lost-addicts.html

Glad you’re still enjoying the ride and the read! As you get closer to the end, remember this is just a TV show and the writers had to write towards what they were thinking and not the millions of us with crazy outlandish theories! Lol

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