Wednesday, March 24, 2010

LOST: Season 6 Episode 9 - Ab Aeterno


Hello LOSTIES!  Well, there is just no way of getting around it this time kids.  WOW!!!!!!    WOW!!!!!!!     WOW!!!!!!!   Okay, whew, out of my system.  That was one epic episode don't you think?  Nestor Carbonell (Richard) and others had been hyping it up for weeks now and, in my opinion, it did not disappoint!  The show's harshest critics will still cry foul and wish there were more answers, but come on guys!  We got BIG answers.  It may not be the answers everyone wanted or in the detail that we anticipated but we got them.  And to all of the Flash Sideways haters, you got your wish as well!  In the great tradition of a couple of other episodes, this was mostly the backstory of one man with few clips of the present day.  (I refer to Desmond's time trippy journey to the past in season 3's "Flashes Before Your Eyes" and the story of what happened to Michael after leaving the island in season 4's "Meet Kevin Johnson")

Ab Aeterno, in Latin, means "Since the Beginning of Time".  We know Richard has been on the island for a long time.  This episode gives us the year in which he got there.  This was the grand backstory of Richard Alpert.  How he ended up on the Island, how he was tempted by the 2 opposing forces of the Island and kinda how he has not aged since he got there.   Of course, surrounding this story is lots of questions about artifacts on the Island, more background and solid answers on the Man in Black vs Jacob's motives.  And of course, more information on what is in store for our candidates.  Let's dive into our story now and see what we can uncover!

Team Jacob Campfire Discussion

Ilana Flashback
So, in the season that LOST has unveiled the Flash Sideways, the show has had to get creative in how show us backstories.  Well, one way is to sneak in a couple people's flashbacks into one episode!  This episode opens up with the Flashback we began to see between Jacob and Ilana in season 5's finale "The Incident".  Ilana is banged up and in bandages.  Jacob comes and touches her and tells her that he needs her help.  The story continues here before we join Jack and crew in the present day. 
  • Jacob tells Ilana that there are 6 people he needs Ilana to protect and this is what she has been preparing for.  So, a couple things stand out here to me.  Jacob gave Ilana the number 6.  Ilana tells Sun there are 6 remaining candidates.  Ilana also knows that John Locke is dead and that there are still 6 candidates.  So we still have the question on who the 6 are.  We know Kate's name isn't crossed off of the lighthouse.  So, we still have Hurley, Sayid, Jack, Sawyer as definites (even if Sayid is "claimed" right now).  Then there are one or both of the Kwons and then maybe Kate or Frank or whatever.  Ilana says she wasn't sure if Kwon represented both Sun and Jin.   But Jacob specifically says "6" people.  Oh well, whoever it is, they'll know if it's them that are chosen! 
  • The other thing was the whole concept that Ilana has been preparing for this day.  It would seem like  Jacob has had a team of people preparing off Island for the day that the candidates would be called to take over for Jacob.  Yeah, we could have assumed that, but it was nice to hear it from Jacob.  
  • It would seem like Jacob's first instruction to Ilana was to go to the temple and after that ask for Ricardus (Richard) and he will know what to do.  Maybe she was thrown off when she got to the Island and realized that John Locke was walking around on the Island?   So this led her to look for Richard first?  It sure seemed like she was trying to get to Jacob in the season 5 finale.   They found Locke's body, the went to the cabin, they got the piece of tapestry with the 4 toed statue on it and headed to Jacob's home on the beach.  There, they found Richard and THEN they went to the Temple.   
  • Oh well, probably too much speculation over something that probably isn't worth speculating on!   The point was Ilana was sent to the Island to protect the candidates and Richard supposedly knows what needs to happen next.
  • Note that during the conversation, Ilana heals pretty quickly.  We must assume this is Jacob's doing.   We still didn't find out why Ilana was in that hospital bed in the first place.  Will we?  Is there enough time?  Is it important?  I guess we'll see! 


Present Day - Jack and Crew get Caught up
The last we saw of our beach dwellers, Jack, Hurley and Richard had just arrived and teamed up with Ilana, Miles, Sun, Frank and Ben.  Note: This is the first episode we see Sun where she didn't mention Jin's name!   It is night and they are sitting around the fire.  It would seem that Jack has just been caught up on what is going on and that they are candidates to replace Jacob.  

  • Sun tells Jack that both of them plus Hurley are candidates according to Ilana.  Hmmm, Sun is taking some liberties there isn't she?  Ilana said she didn't know if Sun or Jin was a candidate.  But, I guess we assume she will be planning to protect both until she does know.
  • As always, you gotta love Frank's reaction to all of this.  Was he bitter his name wasn't mentioned when he said "Well, that's great"?  
  • Ilana has no idea what to do next but, based on her direction from Jacob she assumes Ricardus (Richard) does.   
  • Richard, whom we just saw with Jack wanting to die, can't help but laugh at Ilana asking him what to do. 

  • Richard is convinced now that Jacob is a big fat liar.  Based on the backstory we are about to get we see why Richard is convinced.  (Who else?  Smokey!)  And then he tells everyone on the beach his theory on what the Island is, and it's also based on his conversation with Smokey.  He says that they're all dead and that the Island is Hell.   Oh boy...cue all of the crazy theories again of purgatory.  Except this time, we'll skip right past purgatory and we'll just call it Hell!   Now, yes, I can see during the flashback that Richard may think this is the case but how does he explain leaving the Island and visiting John Locke during various stages of his life?  How does he explain going off Island to recruit Juliet or filming Juliet's sister?   How does he explain "retrieving the Man From Tallahassee?"   Does he now think that this was the Devil just messing with him and everyone and that the whole WORLD and ISLAND is all part of Hell?  Interesting, but I think we'd have a whole bunch of upset viewers if "They're all Dead" was the answer to the show!  We've already been down that road of theories folks! 
  • So, anyway, Richard is convinced that there is one man he can turn to for the answers now.  He's running to Smokey! 
What now?
  • Ilana is planning to go after Richard.  Jack tries to convince her it's pointless and that he's gone crazy.   
  • Jack, then finds out that John Locke is the man that Richard is going to.  Gotta love Ben's "ooooh this should be interesting" right before the reveal.  I was really hoping Jack would come face to face with Locke before finding out he was still dead.  But too many people on the Island know that it's Smokey now!  But instead he finds out that it's not exactly Locke.  I'm sure "off camera" he finds out it's Smokey.  
  • But in the meantime, we see Hurley talking in spanish to no one.  It took me only the first scene of the flashback to figure out who he probably was talking to but we won't go there just yet!   If anyone finds the translation to what Hurley was saying in this scene, please post it in the comments!  I'll add it to this bullet if I get it. 

  • Jack is convinced that Hurley is talking to Jacob and what's information as always.  But Hurley confirms it is not Jacob and that it doesn't concern Jack.   Hurley walks away and we'll see him later in the episode. 
  • Meanwhile Ben and Ilana have a little chat.  Ben says that Jack is right about Richard that he doesn't know anything.   Ben said that he has known Richard since he was 12 years old.  This might be the first time we got an age to go with how old Ben was when he first came to the Island.  We know that Ben and Richard met a little before 1977 so he is at least 42 years old maybe older (of course Michael Emerson is 50 but who's counting?).   Ahhh 42.  Coincidence? probably. 
  • Anyway, Ben explains how Richard doesn't age.  Frank asks how something like that would happen and then we WHOOSH back to the past!

    (Everyone note that it is a normal FLASHBACK "whoosh" sound and not the crazy Sideways "Wehhh ehhh OOSH" sounds we have been getting all season.  This is indeed a flashback and I indeed just trademarked the spelling of the Flashback and Flash Sideways sounds.   Give me credit if you use it!) 

Richard's Flashback

Tenerife, Canary Islands 1867

We begin our Richard story in 1867 on the Canary Islands, a property of Spain.  Well there we go folks, Richard is Spanish, not Egyptian, not English!  It turns out that Richard had a wife named Isabella and she was very sick. 


("A" marks the spot on the map in case you were interested)



  • First of all, let's do some math.  2007-1867 = 140 Years that Richard has been on the Island and not aging. 
  • Isabella is coughing up blood and burning up.  Things aren't looking well.  She gives Ricardo the cross around her neck to give to the doctor.   While Richard refuses she tells him to close his eyes and that they will "always be together."    

  • Richard promises to save Isabella and heads on his way to the doctor on horseback.  

  • We find out that Richard lives in the town of El Socorro which the rude doctor is not willing to travel to in the pouring rain.  He does offer medicine but for a very high price.  A price that Ricardo cannot even afford even when offering up Isabella's necklace.   Ricardo gets desperate and grabs ahold of the doctor who starts demanding he let go.  Richard accidentally pushes the doctor who falls and hits his head very hard on a table.  He is killed instantly.   This is very reminiscent of the way Desmond accidentally killed Kelvin in the season 2 finale. 
  • Ricardo does not hesitate, he has the medicine in his hand.  The butler with the blankets just stands there staring at the scene in front of him.  Ricardo bolts for the door, gets on his horse and heads back to Isabella.  But alas, he is too late.  Isabella has passed on.  Everything that Richard went through to get the medicine was for nothing, but has sealed his fate to his final destination.   By the way, excellent acting job by Nestor Carbonell to take on a Spanish role for the majority of the episode.  Of course, he is of Cuban and Catalan descent so maybe it wasn't too much of a stretch.  Regardless, excellent job!   



  • The authorities appear to have followed Ricardo to his home and bring him to prison for his murder of the doctor. 
Ricardo in Jail


  • We see Ricardo reading the bible in prison when a priest comes to offer him food and to hear his confession.   He requests to see Richard's Bible which we find out is in English.   We clearly get a shot of The Gospel According to Luke Chapter 4 verses 24-29.  Yes, 4 is one of the numbers.  When I looked up verse 24, ironically verse 23 (another number) was a famous and controversial verse in the English translation of the Bible.  It included the expression "Physician, Heal Thyself" which ironically was explored to a great length of detail by EW's own Doc Jensen back in January.  (I knew I had read that expression somewhere!)   He also refers to  chapter 24 (an inverse of 42) as a possible important motif to the world of LOST.  "No prophet is accepted in his own country."  Now, I'm sure there is tons to speculate with these verses and the other verses I didn't touch on.  But what I found most interesting is that Luke Chapter 4 (to borrow from the Doc Jensen article) is pretty much about "Christ entering the wilderness to be tested by Satan and it ends with Christ casting out evil spirits."   Now that sounds very thematic to this episode and possibly to this entire season or even the entire show.   So, I guess we all have some homework to read Luke Chapter 4 of the Bible.   Or we could just accept the overtones for what they are and keep watching the show!

  • We find out Richard has been teaching himself English and that he and his wife were going to travel to the "New World".  Interesting, were they still calling it that in 1867?  Wasn't it North America and South America by then? Didn't the United States of America exist by 1776?  Oh well, we'll let it slide!   Richard and Isabella wanted to start a family and a new life in the Americas. 
  • Richard does give his confession and explains the accidental nature of the doctor's death.  The priest does not accept the confession and will not absolve murder.  And he also said there is no time for him to repent for his sins because he is to be hanged the next day.  Since when do Priests not take a confession regardless of the sin?  So, going along with the whole theme of the episode the priest tells him that the devil awaits for him in hell.  
  • The next day arrives and Ricardo is taken out of his cell and blindfolded.  He is taken to a Mr. Whitfield who was intrigued that he spoke English, that he has strong hands and was interested in going to the "New World".  Richard used to work in the fields.  Whitfield pays the priest for Richard and claims him as the property of one Magnus Hanso.  Anyone who has been following LOST for awhile knows the name Hanso.  And you may even recognize the name Magnus Hanso as the man who owned/captained the Black Rock.  Of course, we also know that Tovard Hanso was the supposed owner of the Black Rock ledger to which Charles Widmore bought at an auction.  Alvar Hanso was a financial backer of the DHARMA Initiative and probably the grandson of Magnus Hanso.  So it was all related somehow!   So, as speculated for years and mostly confirmed a couple episodes ago we learn that Richard was on board the Black Rock when he arrived to the Island and we confirmed that he most certainly was IN CHAINS.   




Black Rock Voyage
  • So, we do not see much of the Black Rock voyage but we see enough to have some speculations. Richard is most certainly chained in with other Spaniards in the bottom of the ship.  They are traveling through some heavy storms and seas (very similar to Desmond's arrival to the Island).  



  • Richard asks another man if he can see anything outside a crack in the boat.  He doesn't see much at first but then sees land and what he claims to be "The Devil".   And says that the Island is guarded by the devil.   Of course, all of us recognize this "DEVIL" as the Egyptian God of fertility and childbirth known as Tawaret.  And also known to us LOSTIES as "The 4 toed statue!"  The ship is headed right towards the statue!  It would appear that the Black Rock caught some really large waves because we see the ship going high up and straight into the statue.  


  • So this answers one of our questions we have had way back since the season 2 finale.  How did the statue get destroyed?  While I had previously speculated that perhaps it was the Black Rock "crew" destroying the statue in fulfillment of The Man in Black's "The Come, They Fight, They Corrupt, They Destroy" prophecy, it turns out that the Black Rock Crew DID destroy the statue but totally accidentally!  
  • This also answers how the Black Rock ended up in the middle of the Island, as the next shot we see is of this very thing.  Although, I never thought that the Black Rock was in a location similar to the Statue.  Jack, Rousseau and crew travelled to the Black Rock at the end of season 1 on foot while Sayid, Sun and Jin didn't pass by the statue until they headed north via boat to get to the Others' fake camp.   But, whatever, maybe the wave was just that huge that it traveled for miles after a direct collision with the statue!  In other words, this is the answer we're getting, we may as well accept it!  Many people had speculated that a tsunami had caused the Black Rock to get there, and well it does seem to have been something like that. 
  • What confuses me about the whole encounter tough is the night time and stormy aspect of the scene.   Remember the scene between the Man in Black and Jacob that started off the season 5 finale?  A ship that looks very much like the Black Rock was travelling to the Island in broad daylight and perfect weather.  We learned that Jacob "brought them" here.  We also learn in this episode that Jacob brought many many people to the Island before the Black Rock.  So, there are 2 ways to look at this.  1.) The ship was not the Black Rock in the season 5 finale.  But then where is any evidence of that ship having been at the Island?   2.) The ship was the black rock and the Island did one of its "day turning into night" events and the heavens started to pour.  We also saw the Ajira Plane flying in the middle of the night and then in broad daylight the next second.  Are these events similar?    Here is the picture of the ship from season 5.   Any speculations out there? 





Island - What Happened to the Black Rock Crew
So we may have thought that the Black Rock crew had explored this Island for awhile before perishing, but that does not turn out to be the case.  Of course, we always knew that there were slaves that died while they were still chained in.  We found out very quickly what happened to everyone on the ship. 
  • Magnus Hanso, whom we never met, perished in the crash.
  • All but 5 officers also died.  Several of the slaves were still alive including Richard and the Spaniard who things fertility statues are devils.  They kept screaming that they were alive and finally Whitfield came down with his sword.
  • He started killing the slaves one at a time claiming that if he didn't the slaves would eventually turn on them and kill them.  
  • So ever slave is killed and just as Whitfield is about to take out Richard, we hear a familiar sound. I love it when we actually get to root for Smokey! (ripping off Montand's arm, going after the freighter crew, I'd even go as far as watching him take out Bram and crew just because it was really cool!)   Anyway, Smokey takes care of the 5 officers including a cool shot of dragging Whitfield through the ceiling.  Good times! 
 
  • Then it's time to scope out Richard.  Similar to what he did to Eko, Kate and Juliet we see flashes of light and smokey capturing memories from Richard's past.  Now of course Locke also claimed to have seen a bright white light and Eko claimed that this is not what he saw so take from this what you will! 

  • And for a long period of time we see Richard trying to break loose from his chains.  He eventually gets a nail loose from the boards and tries to pry open the chains with that.  We get a shot of a boar  feasting on some of the dead bodies (I'll spare you from the visual).  Richard tries to defend himself from the boar with the nail and drops it in the process out of his reach.   Poor guy! 
  • Then, after a period of time, Ricardo then sees Isabella who is so happy to see him!  She claims that they are both dead and that they're in hell.   She is there to save him before "he" come back.  She calls him the devil. She looked into his eyes and all she saw was evil.  We then "HEAR" the smoke sounds from outside of the Black Rock (confusing, right?).  Richard tells Isabella to go without him.  She refuses at first but then runs.  We don't see smokey though as it sounds like he rips her apart. 


  • So what is going on here right?  Okay, so first, I am thinking that Smokey captured Richard's memories and then took the form of Isabella to sway Richard.  Sounds right, right?   One issue with that.  Every form Smokey has taken previously has been of dead bodies on the Island.  Are we saying that we went through all of this trouble to bring John Locke's body back to the Island and Smokey never needed him to be here?   Yemi, Alex, possibly Christian Shephard were all bodies on the Island.  (although, we still don't know where Christian's body is in either the Island or Sideways timeline)    Issue #2: How did we hear smokey from far away but still have this incarnation of Isabella in the Black Rock at the same time?  Is that just a gift of Smokey's that we didn't know existed?  Or was this image if Isabella not the Man in Black/Smokey's doing at all?   Jacob later says that he does not like to get involved but could he have somehow caused this vision to Richard?   We know Kate has seen a horse from her past on the Island before.  How did that happen?   Am I looking too much into this?  Or am I rightfully confused?  I will have to go with the opinion that somehow this image is created by Smokey in his attempt to seduce Richard into killing Jacob.  But I still don't know how it's possible based on prior examples of Smokey incarnations. 
Man in Black's Seduction of Richard to the Dark Side
  • More time passes and Richard is then awoken by the touch of a hand on his shoulder.  A very blatant touch right?  We first think it is Jacob, but then it turns out to be none other than the Man in Black (Titus Welliver version)!  


  • MIB gives Ricardo water and claims to be a friend.  When Ricardo asks if he's in hell, MIB confirms it.  He also says he was on the Island long before the Black Rock.  Richard asked about his wife, how the black smoke came and she ran.  MIB says that this probably means that "HE" has her.  He refers to HIM as the devil.   He offers his help to Richard as he too "wants to be free."    Looks like Smokey's desire to leave the Island goes as far back as his desire to kill Jacob.  Definitely makes sense.  MIB requests that Richard promise he will help him before he frees him from the chains.  MIB wants Richard to do anything he asks.  Richard obliges. 
  • Richard is finally freed from the chains.  Richard is thankful and the Man in Black says something that isn't the first time we hear it "It's good to see you out of those chains."  So not only was Flocke's reference to this a reference to Richard's time on the black rock, it was the exact line that triggered Richard's memory to who Flocke actually was.  It also now helps us piece together Flocke and Richard's scenes in the Locke-centric episode "The Substitute" where Flocke tells Richard he wants what he always wanted.  For Richard to join him.
  • So MIB tells Ricardo that he will need his strength if they want to escape.  He says there is only one way to escape from hell.  He is naturally referring to killing Jacob when he says that Ricardo will have to kill the devil.  Because Jacob's death is the MIB's only ticket off of the Island. 
  • Next we see Richard feasting on a boar.  MIB gives Ricardo directions to where he will find the Devil.  Head due West until you get to the ocean and then he'll see the statue.   MIB explains that the ship smashed through the statue its way inland and smashed it into pieces.
  • We then see a scene that is hauntingly familiar to the Dogen/Sayid scene in which Dogen gives Sayid a "special" dagger and gives him explicit instructions.  MIB's instructions to Richard are the same.  He only has one chance, shove this into the devil's chest, do not hesitate and do not let him say a word.  If he speaks, it will already be too late.  He can be very persuasive.  Richard laughs asking how he could kill the devil if he's black smoke.  MIB is very upfront with Richard and says HE is the Black Smoke.  Wow, 6 seasons we have to wait for Smokey to reveal himself to the LOSTIES, and he reveals himself to Richard within days of his arrival to the Island.  Gotta love the last season folks! 
  • Richard then is confused as he knew Isabella was running from the smoke.  MIB says that Isabella was running from The Devil and that he tried to stop him but he couldn't.  MIB is again trying to identify with the person he is having a 1 on 1 conversation with.  He tells Richard that he is not the only one who has lost something.  The Devil (Jacob) betrayed him and took his body and humanity.
  • Interesting - He took his body?  I wonder how literal MIB is being here?  Did Jacob somehow take MIB's body and use it as his own or did he just bestow this Smoke Role on him and in doing so, has stripped him from his physical body.   Could this imply that one of those bodies in the cave IS in fact the Man in Black?  (even if Jack assessed the bodies to be dead only for 40-50 years?)   I'm grasping at straws right now, but I found the comment very sincere and intriguing.  
  • The rest of MIB's seduction of Richard is basically trying to get him to kill Jacob "The Devil has your wife and you're going to have to kill him to get her back"  Of course, the Man in Black has promised Sayid similar things.  Telling him he could have whatever he wanted in exchange for his help.  Is he lying to get his way?  Based on the final scene between Jacob and MIB in this episode, it would certainly seem so. 
  • Ricardo refuses at first saying that murder is wrong and that is why he is in hell in the first place.  MIB states that they can argue all day about what is right and wrong but he asks if he ever wants to see his wife again.  Ricardo acknowledges that he does.  MIB gets up and walks away leaving Richard to his task. 
  • By the way, this episode never does explain why Richard went all long hair and scraggly in the 70's for his first encounter with Ben.  In 1954 we see him as clean-cut as he does in 1977 and from 2004-2007.  So why the change for that particular moment?  I don't know if we'll ever get the answer, but we do see that Richard used to have long hair and a beard in his Spaniard days.  So, maybe we can just go with that!  Sorry for the sidebar, just wanted to throw that out there! 



Richard meets Jacob

We see Richard arrive at Jacob's beach with the statue in shambles.  We could sit here and speculate how all of this statue debris on the beach and in the ocean are just gone in 2004-2007, but I'm going to skip right by that.  Some of it probably sank to the bottom of the ocean.  Everything else?  Maybe Jacob has super strength and picked it up and threw it in the ocean too! 

  • Richard arrives to the foot and unsheathes the knife.  The door to the foot is open.  Jacob is outside and takes a shot at Richard right to the face.  And he takes a few more shots.  Richard tries still to attack him but Jacob takes him down and grabs the knife.  Jacob then speaks asking Richard why he is here and who gave him the dagger. 


  • Richard asks where is wife is.  Jacob claims to not know his wife and asked if she came on the ship.  He then asks if Richard met a man in the jungle dressed in black.  Richard explains to Jacob what MIB told him.  He's the devil, if he wants to see his wife again he must kill him.  Jacob looks clearly upset and tells Ricardo that it wasn't his wife that he saw.   Richard says that it was her and that she is dead just like him.  Jacob tries to convince Richard he's not dead.  (note: some will say that Jacob never did acknowledge they're not in hell.  But I would think saying he's not dead would prove this).  Jacob then takes Richard into the ocean and submerges him repeatedly until Richard cries that he wants to live.  Thus, proving that he's not dead.  Interesting tactic! 
  • The next scene we see that Jacob has provided Richard with a blanket to warm up after his underwater adventure.  And Jacob also brings wine for them both to drink and chat. 
  • Richard asks what is inside the foot.  Jacob tells Richard that no one comes in unless he invites them in.   If you recall, Richard said something similar to this in season 5's finale and Flocke told him he was beginning to think Richard was making up these rules as he went along.  Jacob then goes into his whole reasoning for bringing people to the Island. 
  • He said his name is Jacob and he is the one who brought their ship to the Island.  When Richard asks why Jacob picks up the wine bottle and starts to compare the wine to what Richard is referring to as "HELL".  Jacob gives it another name, Malevolence, evil, darkness (I guess we could call it SMOKEY!)  Jacob says this evil is swirling in the bottle unable to get out.  Because if it did it would spread.  Hmmm, we had speculated a couple blog posts ago (I believe it was while discussing in the comments) that perhaps the real objective of this season to prevent Smokey from leaving the Island.  Similar to Godzilla or King Kong, what would happen if this monster was unleashed upon the world?  At first, I was thinking MIB was trying to leave the Island and return to human form.  But is that even possible?  What if he left the Island and was STILL Smokey?  Is that where this show is heading?  From Jacob's discussion with Ricardo, it sure seems that way.   What does he mean by the EVIL "spreading?"  Would Smokey terrorize the world or would he turn the whole world into Zombie followers like Sayid?   Is this REALLY where the show is headed?   I'll reserve my judgement until we know more, but the idea of Jack and crew's purpose of being on the Island as being called to be protectors of the Island and keep the world safe is not a bad idea.  But is guarding Smokey really all that protecting the Island is about?   I guess we'll keep watching to find out. 

  • Jacob puts a cork into the bottle and refers to the cork as the Island.  It's the only thing keeping the darkness where it belongs.  He then goes on explaining to Richard that the Man in Black sent him on the murder mission because he believes it is in every man is corruptible because it is in their very nature to sin.  (Recall the MIB's speech "They Come, They Fight, They Corrupt, They Destroy"  Recall Jacob's "You're wrong, it only ends once.  Everything before that, is progress")  Jacob says that he brings all of these people to the Island to prove him wrong.  He says that when the people get here, their past does not matter.  This makes me recall Jack telling Kate in season 1 that everyone gets a clean slate on this Island.  This makes me think back to all of the times the OTHERS would refer to people as "Not a Good person, that's why they weren't on the list."  And of course, does a candidate have to be without sin?  We saw Locke, Sayid and Sawyer all kill people on the Island.  Jack mercy killed the Marshal.  Sun shot one of the Others.   Granted, some of them were threatened and had to shoot.  But it's worth speculating if this matters.  

  • Jacob tells Richard that there were many people brought to the Island before him and that they're all dead.  Richard asks why Jacob didn't help any of them.   Jacob says he wanted them to help themselves and to know the difference between right and wrong without him having to tell them.  It would be meaningless if he had to force them to do anything.  Richard retorts that if Jacob doesn't step in then the MIB would. 
  • Jacob thinks about this for a second and then offers Richard the job of being his advisor.  Maybe Richard could step in for him.  He could be Jacob's representative to people he brings to the Island.  Richard wants something in return.  First he asks for his wife back.  Jacob states that he cannot do this. (Dead is Dead?)  2nd he asks to be absolved of his sins so he doesn't go to hell.  Jacob states that he cannot do this either (Does this prove he isn't a god?)  3rd, Ricardo then says he never wants to die, he wants to live forever.  Jacob touches Richard's shoulder and says "Now, that I can do!"

  • So, Jacob cannot bring people back from the dead but he can touch them and make them immortal?  What does this say about the scene when Locke is thrown out the window by his father and appears to be dead.  Jacob touches him and he breathes again.  Was he not dead and Jacob just partially healed him from the waste up?  I guess we are just going to have to accept the fact that Jacob has these crazy powers.  He is, after all, ageless himself.  People may not like the answer, but that seems to be all we are getting.  Unless, we get a Jacob origin story.  Which, I kinda would like to see! 
Richard and MIB
  • Richard returns to MIB.   The Man in Black already knows that he let Jacob talk to him.  (again, very reminiscent of Dogen and Sayid after the encounter)  Why do these scenes mirror each other?  I can't even begin to speculate right now!  
  • Man in Black is not even upset.  He knows that Jacob can be very convincing.  Richard then says that Jacob asked him to give MIB a white stone.  Nice, we're brought back to the inside joke!   And of course, in this episode we saw a "Black Rock" and a White Rock.  (ZING!)
  • MIB tells Richard that if he ever changes his mind and he means "EVER" his offer still stands.  And then he gives Richard his wife's gold cross.  MIB says that he must have dropped it on the ship.  Maybe this is how he was able to take the form of Isabella?  Because he had something of hers?  Kind of makes me think of Christian Shephard's shoes but that still doesn't help explain why they needed Locke's body on the Island if he's taking the forms of people that aren't on the island.  
  • MIB disappears and then Richard buries the necklace by a bench and says goodbye to his wife.  I am confused to why he would rather live an eternity without his wife than die to be with her.  I guess because he thinks he will go to hell.  
Present Day
  • We find Richard arriving to the same location where he buried the necklace and watch him dig it back up in 2007.  He then screams over and over for the Man in Black saying that he has changed his mind about his offer.  
  • But all that shows up is Hurley!  Hurley asks about the offer.  Richard is confused to why Hurley is there and starts flipping out saying he doesn't know anything.  Hurley said that Richard's wife sent him.  (Totally called that folks! I know I know...not hard to figure out!)   Isabella wants to know why Richard buried the cross.   

  • Richard is confused and wants to know how Hugo knows about that.  He says she just told him and saw Richard dig it up.  She is standing right next to him.  Woa...   Isabella tells Hurley that Richard does not believe him.  Hurley tells her sometimes it takes people awhile.  Hurley begins to translate and Richard begins to believe. You're English is Awesome dude!  Richard asks if she is really there.   She tells him to close his eyes and Hurley will tell her what she says "It wasn't your fault that I died. It was my time.  You have suffered enough, Ricardo."  Richard misses her and would do anything to be with her again.   Isabella says they already are together and then she kisses him and disappears.  
  • So now even GHOSTS of people that were never on the Island are appearing too?  I'm so confused.  But does this prove that we could have a Smokey incarnation and a GHOST of Christian Shephard on the Island at the same time?  Hmmmm  Could we also speculate that Isabella is referring to a Sideways timeline where she and Richard "are together" with her comment?  Or the fact that she is on the Island as a ghost while he is there alive as well?   All interesting thoughts and confusing thoughts!
    (Update: I stand corrected!  Ben's dead Mother appeared as a Ghost on the island before and she never had been on the Island.  I'm not sure the implications of this but thanks to anonymous commenter for the clarification!)
  • In either case it was a very touching scene.  Richard puts the chain around his neck and thanks Hurley. But Hurley is nervous to make one more comment. 
  • She said there is one more thing that Richard has to do.  She said that he needs to stop the Man in Black from leaving the Island because if he doesn't "We all go to hell."  And then we get a shot of Flocke looking on from the distance.  YIKES!  We'll have to speculate about this in the comments!  I'm running late! 

Back in 1867



We all would have been happy if the episode ended there, but we got one more exciting scene between the Man in Black and Jacob that pretty much continues their beach discussion AFTER they both talked to Richard.

  • We see Man in Black sitting and overlooking the Island holding the white stone.  Jacob comes to him all happy acknowledging he got the present.  MIB says he doesn't have to gloat. 

  • Jacob is upset that MIB tried to kill him and is wondering why he did it.  Hmmm didn't Jacob already know that MIB wanted to kill him?  He said he did in the season 5 finale.  Maybe the Black Rock was BEFORE that other ship?  Or was it just so we could hear MIB plead here a little more for Jacob to let him leave? 
  • Jacob said as long as he is alive MIB is not going anywhere.  And he said even if MIB kills him somebody else will take his place.  And them MIB says the one thing that defines what side he is truly on (his own).  "Then I will kill them too!"  
  • Jacob then gives MIB the bottle of wine and tells him it is to pass the time. "I'll see you around"
  • MIB: "Sooner than you think" he then breaks the bottle symbolizing his escape from the Island.








      BOOM LOST!!! 

I said it before and I'll say it again.  A great episode from start to finish!  It gave us a great Richard backstory while tying the events together that apply to the current story.  Bravo to Damon Lindelof, Calrton Cuse and the entire LOST team for their vision and bringing it to fruition in this episode.  I can't wait to watch it again!  There will still be complaints to items that were left out.  But we definitely are getting a clearer picture of where this story is going and we're getting answers along the way.  Bring on next week!  But in the meantime, let's get to the discussion!  Hope you enjoyed my ramblings as always and I'll see you next week!  NAMASTE! 


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360 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 360 of 360
Shannon said...

People say the devil influences us daily while god/jesus sits there and just watches us…not interfering with our lives. Expecting us to do the right thing and know right from wrong. (Sound a little familiar?)
…the devil can take many forms. Smokey may have needed Lock’s body on the island to become him. He may have used the necklace to become Isabella and Christian’s shoes to become him. But when he became Christian and Isabella he wasn’t in a “stable” form. Which might explain why he didn’t remain in their forms...

Was the place where Richard buried the necklace in a graveyard?

Mike V. said...

Shannon, the reason that MIB is now in "STABLE FORM" as Locke is because Jacob was killed. That is the major event that happened where we no longer see him taking anyone else's form.

So are you suggesting that whenever we saw Christian PRIOR to Flight 316 arriving (with Christian's shoes) it was never Smokey we were seeing? Because his shoes weren't there before then. Granted, his body was (we think but it is missing in both timelines) the gold cross is the best thing i can come up with for him taking the form of Isabella...unless he doesn't need anything physical and just needs the memories from someone. but then something just doesn't add up.

eh..I'm just rambling! lol and yes the Jacob/MIB comparison to God/Satan does sound familiar! lol I still don't think Jacob is 100% a GOOD GUY though. Of course, the Old Testament God wasn't a very pleasant deity either! lol

not sure what i'm talking about anymore...just rambling! lol

Weasel said...

@Annemarie: The other prisoner thought that the statue was the devil, from what I understood.

Weasel said...

You know, smokey may not be "appearing" as certain people... he could just be making people THINK they are seeing people that are not really there. Would explain a few things...

Shannon said...

Maybe the whole Island and everyone on it is just part of someone’s over-sized game? Do you remember when Eco stood on top of the trees, when he climbed the plane and looked out (can’t recall what season or episode)?
…but I vaguely remember it looking something like a bunch of holes every where.

LOST Fan - So does this mean Richard is a Jinn too?
…he can travel the world and in different time periods. Or is he the Jinn “Representative”

Bryan said...

@Kevin - A lot of readers do not want to read spoilers... you should probably just place a link to that sort of information and clearly state that it is a spoiler.

Florin Milea said...

Mike V - Claimed and if I read this right, means stamped, lay-a-way, to be used later. So I claim this thing but I plan to use it at a later date like a Christmas gift bought earlier but to be delivered at the right time.
Possessed is the ultimate goal where you are already using the thing you previously claimed. A nice jacket in the closet is a claimed thing, but when you wear it, is now possessed in a sort of speaking.

Florin Milea said...

rhinocerus - Pulling the plug, in the light of the bottle of wine and the cork as shown by Jacob,means that as soon as the cork is pulled the wine, water, basically the evil can come out. Even the hieroglyphs on the door/wall means to 'call/summon someone for protection.'

Florin Milea said...

Shannon - That was I think the '?' episode and you may be confusing the map on the blast door with the locations. The people in the hatch believed that there's got to be more than one site of Dharma and they drew a schematic of. The question mark, was the central location from where all stations were watched and reported on and that site was where the plane was. That's where Ben forgot his walkie-talkie, Paolo hid the diamonds and retrieved them when Echo, Sayid and Locke went over with Nikki. I remember when Nikki caught on the 'projects' as plural, and Locke said something like; Now I feel like a fool. That's when Sayid started to connect the cables and locked on the Michail's communication center via TV.

Florin Milea said...

davidsalako - Hell is a one way trip for people, but as in the Bible, a later date. Right now there's a waiting room as a one way ticket. However, for satan and his angels, they can go back and forth, because they're not in hell yet. Many Biblical scholars got it wrong. Hell is just as eternal as Heaven. Those in hell will perpetually die, but almost as in torture. satan is not yet in hell and he's trying to liberate the fallen angels from it, so he can start his evil works again.

Florin Milea said...

weasel- Good point. I remember that when John Locke saw his mother pointing to a beach plane, she appeared like a broken hologram.That makes me think that Smokey could replicate in a better hologram, touching included, people with whom, dead or alive, Smokey could come in direct contact of some sorts.

Florin Milea said...

I think now that children means a lot to Smokey. They are innocent as in gullible. That's what Ben lost at the temple. The ones conceived on the island, are killed by the overwhelming evil presence of Smokey. That's why Aaron is so important after all.

HurleyAteMe said...

I have to say, that the post by Anoymous about Jacob being Rain/Water is awesome. It is the perfect hook to get me to watch every episode again. To add to that theory and correct me if I am wrong, didnt Ben summon the smoke monster to be judged by releasing water over a drain, hence the water had smokey trapped underground!

What if Jacob also produces ghosts for his purposes, He could have been influencing candidates as well!

My last comment is on Ben, He is so lame now,, I feel like the writers are trying to lull everyone to sleep on Ben just like when he was weak Henry. I would be surprised if he doesnt play a major role soon.

Jessica said...

oooooohhhh.... Kevin, Mike's gonna delete that comment!!! No spoilers here! and not even fair that Mike will have to read that before he deletes it. Lost is meant to be sacred, we all want to be surprised!

Jessica said...

I agree the rain/water being Jacob theory is awesome and so is the Black Rock traveling to the ISLAND more than once prior to 1867, that would really explain a lot about the enhanced ep. and the weather too. But I do agree with Mike that the weather situations have always been querky with Lost. Love reading all the comments, it helps pass the time waiting for the next episode. We are all going to be so LOST when the series ends... (pun intended) :)
We will have nothing left to obsess over :(

Oh yeah, I loved the JINN theory too, but I doubt that's what's going on.

Florin Milea said...

Folks, this may be a spoiler, but is not.

I’ve been mulling over it with Mike-V over this Smokey, claimed and John Locke as a child. Now, many things said and done could be useful clues. So here what I’ve been thinking and you need to pull a lot of knowledge about the show from the beginning.

Rose from Bronx, finds the first time the Smokey sound appears for the first time as familiar.
Smokey says to Sawyer, you’re the best liar I’ve eve known. Significant?

Okay, so Ricardo arrives on the island, gets the job and what does he do next? Builds a cabin he can live in it. MiB traps and imprison Ricardo there. I remember when John Locke saw Jacob for the first time with Ben and Ben didn’t, than Hurley did, the face of the guy in the chair is reminiscent of Ricardo with the Spanish clothes - The Others/Hostiles always wears, and the long hair. Ben said that Jacob doesn’t like modern technology. Really? Jacob uses a lighthouse, lives on the surface of the island and travels in a world full of modern conveniences. Smokey lives underground, and MiB in a cave lacking that modern style. Ricardo is an old guy, but Richard is clean shaven and doing the same modern thing. So Smokey foulls people in believing that, because modern tools could explain Smokey.

Nobody could see Jacob unless summoned. Why? Jacob knew Smokey figured out the loophole and Jacob was protecting himself from been killed by Smokey using someone else’s hand. Now, Smokey’s got a body, on the island, alive and easy to impersonate. Smokey needs Ricardo alive and keeps him alive, because if not, Smokey gets trapped and/or unable to travel off the island. With the scene now set, Smokey waits for someone with travel means to arrive. Dharma and the sub arrives. With a good body, claimed and possessed Smokey shows as Ricardo/Richard to all others and becomes in my opinion Flichard - See Flocke. Flichard now, controls the situation and people posing as doing so for Jacob, who can’t interfere without exposure and risk of been killed. Ben as I said was claimed in the flash forward as a kid who lost his innocence, but is not possessed yet. He’s a candidate, but Smokey waits until

Florin Milea said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Florin Milea said...

end... the last drop, to see who’s the best suited. That’s why he doesn’t kill Sawyer when interrupted, nor Kate, because they’re both still useful to him. Sawyer is to scout, and Kate has Aaron. Sayid is a better candidate so far... but... with the killing of John Locke and Jacob, Smokey is now trapped. Flocke just can’t disappear and Sayid take his place. That’s why I think, Ben is one of the good guys now. Smokey disowned him and did so long before which explains Ben having a tumor in a place where everybody is perpetually in good health - save for pregnant mothers.

That would explain how Flichard, travels to the time and place where John Locke is born and his mother goes crazy under his - Smokey’s evil influence so she can not raise little John. Claire is told to board a certain plane because Malkin under the influence, forces CLaire to not let the kid raised by another and so she can land on the island. In the confusion with the freighter, Kate get's Aaron off and maybe that's another argument why all have to come back. All the characters and potential candidates Smokey knew well, gets in trouble with jail, crime, con artistry, mental institutions, you name it as well so to prevent them from even coming to the island, or bring them back after. Smokey didn't counted on few of them escaping via the right bearing. It is possible that Smokey interfered with Lapidus alarm clock to the same purpose. Flichard visits Juliet, gets her to sign up with Dharma - who’s a convenient cover for Flirchard. Juliet’s ex-husband who knows what she did, dies been hit by a bus, just like she wished and now feels guilty, point at which she signs up because of guilt and running away from it. As soon as the ‘claimed’ Locke hits the beach, he can walk because of Smokey, while Ben looses his position and health. We now know how John Locke loves the island, thinks he’s the lord protector and the rest to happen. Smokey also plays a double inverted pyramid reverse psychology, giving people what they want or wish for. He also slowly kills all those deemed unnecessary to his purpose or whom outlived their mission.
Any thoughts?

Mike V. said...

The people have spoken! Sorry Kevin, we do try to stay relatively spoiler free here. I skimmed what you said so I think I already forget what it said but I'm gonna delete! Thanks for your comment though! Please feel free to keep contributing just be careful! :-)

Everyone else, it's beer night at this lostie's house! I'll get to comments later. Have a great weekend!

plumbarius said...

My God..........so many comments :-)

Kickin ass, Mike V!!

I watched Ab Aeterno again last night and enjoyed it even more than the first time.

-Any chance that when MIB touches Richard on the BR, he is dead and not sleeping?? Maybe similar to Jacob/Locke when he was pushed out the window...assuming Locke WAS dead?

-It certainly sounded like it was the first time MIB tried to indirectly kill Jacob...I wonder if these two are just the latest (starting in the mid 19th century) pair to go at it and maybe Adam and Eve are the original battlers?

-Loved the lines from Jacob/Richard
J- "Why should I step in?"
R- "If you don't, he will"
That really seemed to befuddle Jacob!

-The interaction between Richard/Isabella/Hurley was so good, I rewound twice....great acting and outstanding writing!

-I am starting to like the possibility of Jack (Jacob) and Locke (MIB) sitting side by side on the beach at the end of LOST (with Hurley as Jack's representative).

plumbarius said...

FYI,

Just saw Cindy (AKA the commercial queen)in a Bounty ad. LOL!!

How much do you think someone makes in a national commercial??

Mike V. said...

Lots more commentary to follow up on! I'll see what I can get to this morning.

Weasel - How would we explain MIB appearing to Jacob then? Is he just doing that for kicks? lol

Shannon - I think the Eko scene you're talking about is when he climbed up to "find the question mark" And then we saw on the ground there was a QUESTION MARK that pointed to the Pearl Station. I think we got more information on this "GAME" of sorts in this episode... Jacob explained that he is trying to prove MIB wrong and that all mankind is not corruptible and are naturally born to sin. He talks about one of the "RULES" where when they get to the island they have a CLEAN SLATE...nothing before matters....none of the murders (Kate, Sawyer, Ana Lucia) Torturing (Sayid), whatever... They are TESTING these people to see what they'll do. So yeah, in a sense, they are all part of this game. But it seems like there is more going on here with "keeping evil locked on the island" I immediately went to keeping SMOKEY on the island but maybe there is more to this "DARKNESS" that the island keeps locked away from the world.

Florin - I would agree with your definition of "CLAIMED" in this case and Sayid is definitely possessed somehow. But I still wonder if MIB has big plans for him or something. The dude DIED...so how is he still roaming around? I like speculation that he could be the heir apparent to being the next Smoke Monster. I dunno though.

Hurley Ate Me - I like the water theory too and am interested to see if it will play out. But I brought this up before about smokey in the train...did he really come out of that drain? I thought we saw him come from somewhere outside of that house when he came barreling through DHARMAVILLE. But yeah there might be some symbolism to Ben pulling the drain and the water.

Florin - didn't horace building the cabin? We saw it in Locke's dream in "cabin fever" I think whoever was "TRAPPED" in that cabin it was MIB or Jacob...just don't know which. Things have been leaning towards Smokey which doesn't make sense because we saw smokey in seasons 1 to 3. Interesting theory on FLICHARD...not sure if I can buy into that one! Richard does talk about leaving the island as privileged information, so I think this is something we have yet to be shown. And I really think Smokey only takes the appearance of dead people. I'll be honest, I only skimmed the theory though because I'm short on time! So if I get a chance I'll check it out again! lol

Mike V. said...

Plumb - Yeah the blog is on fire! New Record for Wednesday hits and Weekly hits are off the charts! I rewatched last night too and loved it again!

I guess there is always a chance that Richard was dead like locke...but does MIB have healing powers as well? It was a very blatant "touch" by MIB...not sure if we were just meant to think it was Jacob until they finally showed his face.

It definitely sounded like the first time MIB tried to kill Jacob which confuses me because Jacob tells MIB on the beach that he does know he wants to kill him lol But you could be right that there could be an earlier duo....maybe adam and eve are their parents or something...i dunno...that 50 year decomposing thing still throws me though!

Yep the "GHOST" scene was a good time!

Still not sure how i feel about Jack and Locke on the beach....it would definitely be ironic.....my only problem is that it wouldn't provide CLOSURE. They leave the show open to continue for eons to come! The same loop continues. I just feel like the Island and the LOSTIES have to end up in a different status when the show is all said and done. That's why I've been thinking the LOSTIES will end up going against BOTH Jacob and MIB and do their own thing, whatever that is.

Funny on Cindy in the commercials again lol No idea how much they make but I would guess she makes more for LOST spots...maybe not!

plumbarius said...

Mike,

You would rather see Jack die at the end and close the loop or completely resolve this saga as opposed to Jack and Locke merely becoming the next in line?
It seems that would go against what LOST is about. They don't provide all the answers or ending/resolutions that fit into a nice neat box for viewer pleasure.

I recall proposing a couple of seasons ago on this blog that the ending might be with Jack opening his eye (like in the pilot), but my thought was a total reset..like the Matrix....not Jack closing his eye as he dies :-)

I also wrote awhile back that I would not be surprised if there were THREE sides to the upcoming war...like you said, Jacob v. MIB v. the Losties. That would be great! Maybe one side wins or two of three or even nobody wins???

Keep up the great work!!

Mike V. said...

Plumb, I don't know what I really want lol I always did see Jack dying in the end but I don't really necessarily want that. Just thought it made sense. Yeah jack opening his eye at the end in an endless loop would be interesting and sounds kinda like that video game ending with the guy leaving the island and waking up again on it but something was different this time. Interesting I guess but I don't see closure in starting the loop over again!

I'm sure whatever they come up with I'll love, but I want whatever ending there is to not make us feel like there is an opening for LOST the next generation! Lol (even though abc has hinted that years down the road something like this could happen)

I'll have to think about it more I'm just rambling on my phone right now!

davidsalako said...

I personally do not want John Locke "resurrected". I think the tragedy and death of his character is great story telling. Some sort of after life apperance for him like Isabella's would be nice...but...don't they dare bring him back! lol!

Also hope Senor Ricardo gets to die and spend eternity with his beloved Isabella!
Great job Nestor Carbonell!

Anonymous said...

Lost the next generation... hmmm, I'd watch it.

After all it can only end once, everything else is just progress!!

V

Mandy :) said...

According to the transcript on Lostpedia, when Hurley was speaking to someone, Jack thought it was Jacob, he said ¿Por qué? Qué no sé.Sí, te puedo ayudar, pero, yo no sé como encontrarlo. [English] Why? I don't know. Yes, I can help you, but... I don't know how to find him.

Was he talking to Isabella?

Florin Milea said...

Good question Mandy. He said to Jack that the conversation was not with regard to Jacob. But was he speaking to Jacob? Since he did so in Spanish, is safe to assume that he did talk to Isabella, sine in the prior episodes, all conversations with Jacob were held in English. Maybe Isabella was a vision sent by Jacob to Hugo with instructions as where to Find Ricardo. But we can not exclude a Jacob conversation either.

DK MD said...

Great comments and dialogue. Very good minds on this blog, indeed. Enjoyable !

Wonder what you think about this: the "elephant in the Lostie's room" so to speak... is death. Death is both final and not final.

In some cases (Locke, Sayid, for example) death transforms the personality and character into a new being. Death's relationship time is enough to make it something to fear and avoid.. even though it is often not quite the end.

How often it appears relevant to the story, and yet in its wake comes something surprising. Don't we scratch our heads about MIB's need to kill Jacob, and then his achieving that through Ben, results nevertheless in Jacob living still. So what has happened when Jacob died. (

Too, the death caused to humans by Smokey seems certainly to be final. The scene in Ab Aeterno where blood poured on the captain's face before he was vacuumed up was impressive, and surely of an unmistakably terminal event for the old salt. Could Smokey be eating humans (for lunch and for sustenance)?

S-MIB-Locke acts as if he is in a prison of sorts, one that keeps him from getting out and upsetting (devouring?) the rest of creation. It appears as if Jacob is his jailer/guard?

Could Jacob be carrying out an assignment? Perhaps he is working at the behest of their common mother, Could she have once said to her son in white: “Take that boy (MIB), Jacob, and put him away so he won’t ruin (smoke up) everything in the universe.” To which Jacob might have said: “sure mom, but he’s going to think you went crazy; and he is certainly going to try to kill me.”

Best...

Florin Milea said...

Mike V - Like you don’t have plenty to read, I’ll give you more ;-)
It is definitely questionable as to Sayid, dead yes, why alive and how is he still alive is a question I can’t answer. I am sure that Smokey keeps his crew around - Sayid included, for a good reason to serve his purpose. I would think off the top of my head of something along the line of; what’s a leader without followers.

As the Smoke coming in the Dharmaville from Ben’s house or not, I am still not sure if it came from inside the house or outside. Ben pulls the plug, but comes in the house - the camera cut right there, and he goes out with the rest and advises them to stay away from the tree line and that’s where we see smokey in action. So we don’t really see where the smoke came from, but does that really matter? I mean smokey could’ve come out from one of the many tunnels and holes in the ground.

The cabin. You are right about Horace and his cabin but as I remember from the show... we know how first Ben and Locke went to A Cabin and the picture of the ‘Jacob’ I think it actually was Ricardo. We also know Hugo stumbled upon the Same Cabin and that’s where we see that there’s Two people in it. But when John Locke caused the split of the group at the Radio Tower and Ben asked to be let go with him not Jack’s group, Locke looked for the Cabin, they found the ash line, yet oops!, my... no Cabin. They’re all confused. Ben was even poking fun at the leader that he doesn’t know what to do next. Significant? I don’t know. So they camp there over night and Locke has the multiple visions of Horace repeating himself like a broken dvd cutting the tree and saying that he’s building a cabin for him and his lady. So up to here Mike you’re right. Locke awakens, Ben says: I used to have dreams too... in a sad voice, and John says; I know where we go next. So they went to the grave of the Dharma people, he dug though the dead skeletons until he found Horace body and checked his chest pocket where he found the plans and the map to ‘that’ cabin specifically. But now, not only that we don’t know if that’s Jacob’s cabin, we’re lead to believe that this is a different one, just like MiBSmokey has a cave to live in, and Jacob has a statue and that both have a list of candidates as similar as it can be. So it is possible that MiBSmokey could have lead Locke to a different cabin - Horace, not Jacob’s, and he fooled Locke and Ben into believing that that’s Jacob’s cabin. I reason here that when Hugo run scared first time, he broke the ash line, releasing the one help captive in that cabin be it Ricardo or Jacob who got an unexpected help they were asking for in that scene with Locke.

That’s why I am in line with you because how could you trap MiB in a cabin, yet Smokey whom we know now to be one and the same person, roams the island free. It doesn’t add up, you’re right. All those things made me rethink among kids, jinn's and whatever else that the captive in the cabin could’ve been Ricardo based on the clothing and hair.

Plumbarious said Ricardo could’ve been dead and MiB brought him back to life? Good theory and that would merge with mine. I always thought that some writers painted themselves with the back to wall putting limits on let’s say for an example as what Jacob can and can not do. That is bound to cause troubles when you need to explain the impossible. So if I am partly right and Plumbarious is partly right, the “Flichard Theory” would be valid and solve the Jacob’s cabin thing plus how Smokey was able to travel off the island. We’re never been told that MiB can’t resurrect dead people. Will see what’s next.

To other posters - Killing Jack? I would hate that. I agree with davisalako that maybe John Locke should be left for dead because of the great story, but as sappy as it may sound, I like the sideway happy ending for all characters. Ricardo would defeat MiB for good and who knows, maybe Jacob put a permanent lid on the island and sinks it so no temptation by will or by accident will ever happen.

davidsalako said...

@Florin Milea - Jacob is a polyglot and has been shown to be quite adept and proficient in several languages English, Korean, Russian, pretty sure Latin due to his ancientness and I am also sure he can speak Spanish to! lol
However, we are to believe that Hurley was indeed speaking to the late Isabella.

Florin Milea said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Florin Milea said...

Thank you davidsalako, you're right, I did forgot that quality of Jacob. I based my assumption on the fact that Isabella did showed up in the final scenes.

can't think of anything cool said...

Wow Mike V- this blog is getting kind of out of hand at this point, huh? It's crazy to keep up! Great job as always. I've been trying to read all of the posts before I comment, but it's so hard, I kinda skip through some of them! Plus with working full time, kids, etc. I haven't even had a chance to read your FlashForward RECAP yet, much less THOSE comments! (Lost comes 1st!)

Good episode, but I must admit, even though I was glued to the tv Tues. night, after watching, I was like, WHAT??? Esp. when Jacob was talking to MIB about killing him, AGAIN. They've already had that discussion. And like, we had already figured out that Richard came on the Black Rock in chains. The episode only confirmed it with the bonus story of his wife and how he got on the ship. Which was kind of cool, and Hurley showing up at just the right moment to translate for Isabella. Ok, I take it back, I loved this episode too! But, Jacob already knew that MIB wanted to kill him. Yet he seemed shocked that MIB sent Richard to do it? He even said in 'The Incident' that they both knew MIB wanted to kill him, but couldn't, so why be shocked that he would send someone else to do it? So we saw how Black Rock got into the middle of the island, and we saw how the statue got knocked into pieces, now what? Now we know that when Richard first met Jacob, he was going to kill him, and he had a wife and it turned the episode into a sweet love story too.

However, according to most of these posts & discussions, we are more confused now than ever as to what the game plan is. Who is good? Who is evil? I like the idea of our losties letting Widmore, Flocke, and Jacob fight it out so they can change the game. And then I like the idea of Jack being the 'Jacob', and Sayid being the 'Smokey/MIB'. I just can't figure out how it will all go down...And I really like the 'Jack dying and his eye closing as the final scene', even though I'm totally in love with Jack, (and Sawyer, and now Miles- heehee!) It would still be cool, but only if it's a hero's death and not some random kind of death.

Adam & Eve? That's something that I desperately need an answer to. They better tell us the story of who they are! I'm kinda thinking Rose & Bernard, but then, I'm kinda thinking maybe even Sun & Jin. Even last week, I was thinking it could be Kate & Sawyer, just because they always end up together (coincidently or not). But I think Rose & Bernard because they are the white/black component. I was thinking Sun & Jin because (as someone mentioned on this blog, I can't remember who though), they have not been together for so long, that their reunion must be pretty epic. Having them be the Adam & Eve would be amazing, huh?

The theory of Richard's episode being a sideways flash, I'm not digging that one at all (no offense to whoever thinks it). I just don't see how it could be. I belive it was a flashBACK to give us the long awaited details of some of the mysteries of Richard & Lost.

Lame, lazy writing, or whatever- we got answers and confirmation of some of the things we were already thinking. We may not all agree with it, but answers- yeah that's what we got. I, like Mike V., will continue with having faith in the creators of the show that they will NOT disappoint! I still think it's going to be a fascinating ride, and I'm conflicted with not being able to wait for the next episode & not wanting it to be over!!! Mike V, any hints for who next episode is about, I know you can't spoil, but please give me a little hint!

Florin Milea said...

DK MD - Thank you for the appreciation and I liked your spiral time travel theory. That last thing, mom assigning Jacob as a jailer/guard makes perfect sense. As with the death thing I am not so sure. Here the purgatory makes a better sense. As Smokey eating for sustenance... I don't think so. Both Jacob and MiB are spirits, so the need for that is not there. We didn't saw MiB eating, only Ricardo, and although Jacob is shown with a bottle of wine, neither Jacob nor MiB drank.
Plus Jacob said that everybody onteh island gets a clean plate, a second chance, that is unless Smokey gets you first.

DK MD said...

Florin Milea - good thoughts. Death seems to be the confusing center. In fact, "Dead is Dead" rules out purgatory, which requires that dead is not dead, and certainly conscious. Brain tease.

Anonymous said...

"As with the death thing I am not so sure. Here the purgatory makes a better sense. "

Pugatory?! Really... Hey Mike what do you think? LOL

Florin Milea said...

Hi guys with the purgatory in mind. I will end up there based on my previous spelling. DK MD you’re right and here’s why... and good tease as well.

I took religions in college. I am also a Christian but no worry, I won’t proselytise.

According with the Bible, all people who ‘died’, actually didn’t. An apostle says they went to sleep waiting the judgement day. So our show picked up on that I guess. Dead is dead indeed as that person is out of the physical game in this world made of matter. Jacob’s statement to Ricardo that he can’t bring back Isabelle, is accurate. Flocke’s statement to Sayid which implies that he can bring back Nadia, is a lie.

However, the spirit of that person could be impersonated per actions of satan or his demons and does so by possessing or by claiming another person who’s alive, or creating the illusion that person is still alive, like a hologram. We already have that technology right now. We have a lot of that in our show and if you do a google on the topic you’ll have more than you ever bargained. There is a radio show as well about such topics and is long running for almost 20 years here in US. I mean everything from UFO’s to demonic possessions and topics of very interesting scientific endeavors. It seems that our writers might be listening to it and picking up ideas. But confusing it is, you’re right.

DK MD said...

Carlton Cuse (Lost Producer):

“We're hoping to achieve a circularity of the entire journey so the ending is reminiscent of the beginning. “

I’m sure they have been reading TS Eliot’s FOUR QUARTETS; note the fragments below. The whole work of the FQ is suffused with the ending and the beginning being one.

From 1. BURNT NORTON:
And the end and the beginning were always there
Before the beginning and after the end.
And all is always now

From 2. EAST COKER

In my beginning is my end….
In my end is my beginning.

From 3. DRY SALVALGES

What we call the beginning is often the end
And to make and end is to make a beginning.
The end is where we start from

From 4: LITTLE GIDDING

We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
Through the unknown, remembered gate
When the last of earth left to discover
Is that which was the beginning;

If Jack (or Whomever) and MIB (as who? Sayid?) are sitting on a beach at the last episode..... does MIB say “You brought them here.” Looking at a ship, a plane, some thing? And it all starts again, the setup of a conclusion that is “satisfying” only in its never-ending character?

Anonymous said...

I have previously suggested that Jacob is the “Master of the Genie”, MIB is “The Genie”, and now in Ab Aeterno, we learn the Island is the cork in the bottle. I believe the Island itself or some other entity is at work and has a different agenda than Jacob and MIB.
First, we were led to believe only Jacob was the “Force on the Island”. The camera pulls back to reveal a bigger picture of what is happening and the MIB is revealed to us. I think in these last seven episodes of LOST that the camera pulls back even farther and a third entity will be revealed.
Think of the situation being a board game, Jacob as “White pieces”, MIB as “Black pieces”, and the Island/Third entity as the Board itself. I think we are seeing two entities plating a “game” and the third entity enforces the rules whatever they are. The third entity is a judge for the Island.
When the Smoke Monster was summoned to dispose of Keamy and the freighter bad guys, the Smoke Monster appeared as three thick columns of black smoke, cutting through the trees. The map on the Swan station’s door mentioned Cerberus vents. Cerberus was a three-headed dog that guards the gates of Hades, to prevent those who have crossed the river Styx from ever escaping.
This third entity could be using Isabella’s, Ben’s Mother’s, and Christian Shepard’s images to communicate to the Richard/Ben/Survivors (Jack, Locke, Claire, Sun, and Frank). Remember, Claire tells Jin both her father, Christian, and MIB were with her for three years in the Jungle.
Off the Island, Hurley has seen various dead people like Charlie and Anna Lucia. Jack has seen his Christian at the hospital just after the smoke alarm went off. We see Kate have a dream with Claire in it saying "DO NOT BRING HIM BACK" meaning Aaron. I think the LOST writers are playing with us.
In Ab Aeterno, the Smoke Monster was heard on the deck above Richard as he was chained in the hold of the Black Rock. Isabella’s image appeared to Richard and tried to help him. He told Isabella to run and hide. We then heard screams and noises like Isabella was being killed by the Smoke Monster.
The Bloody Boy in The Substitute reminded MIB that “you can not kill him”. Only MIB and Sawyer could see the boy. Richard could not see him.
We have seen Christian Sheppard, walking around the island, talking to people, holding Aaron, and hanging around Jacob’s cabin. Again, everyone just assumed it was MIB/Smokey. MIB/Smokey cannot be in two locations at the same time. In season 5 “Namaste”, Sun and Frank heard the whispers and then encountered Christian in one of the houses of the Barracks, and he talks to them showing one of the pictures with the Survivors. At the same time, Ben is walking with Flocke towards the Barracks, to find Sun and Frank kind of freak out. It wasn’t MIB/Smokey inside that house, and I don’t believe it was Jacob because Jacob always presented himself as himself, not in disguise on and off the Island.
LOST Fan

Zahasman said...

based on your post, i wonder if Cloverfield (which has previously been speculated as possibly related to LOST) is how smokey looks like after he has freed himself from the island and starts destroying stuff in New York!

i know the directors have confirmed that cloverfield is not related to LOST (despite having Dharma logo in the beginning of the movie), but it's cool to think it that way.. lol

DK MD said...

Anonimity:

I like your thought about the chess board. Maybe the final show will pull back and show the squares of the board ! Perhaps MIB needing a human to kill Jacob is simply getting the pieces in place to grab the queen. Is there a checkmate possible? Who's playing?

plumbarius said...

Stupid question,

I wonder if Jacob has ever tried to kill MIB?....wouldn't that solve everything?
Although, I guess if that were to happen, then neither would prove their theory about mankind ;-)

What a great show/blog, makes you overthink everything!!

Anonymous said...

I like the comment about Cerebus and the three black columns of smoke...

Why couldn't MIB present itself as two or three other individuals as the same time representing Cerebus' multiplicity?

Isabella could have been him along with the the true black smoke to pull off that scene. The great manipulator staged the scene to get to Richard, which he sort of did.

MIB could have been both Christian and Locke keeping whack job Claire company for three years.

Love the idea of a third party/judge to inforce the rules.

As for the child that Flocke and Sawyer saw--it must have relavence to both parties. That's why Flocke was shocked that Sawyer could see him too. As Whidmore stated it's amazing as to how little Sawyer knows. So I hope that revelation is coming soon. This scene reminded me of when Locke and Ben went to the cabin and Ben could not believe that Locke heard/saw something when he did not.

Plubarius is right, this show makes you over think everything...

2 days until the best hour of TV returns.

DK MD said...

plumbarius
Your question is in no way stupid; I think we all wonder this same thing. Are not there rules? Such as MIB cannot himself kill Jacob and has to enlist Ricardo, then Ben.....to find the "loophole."

The underlying question is why one entity cannot kill another, but can instigate the killing.

Best

Mike V. said...

Mandy, yep he was definitely talking to Isabella in the beginning of the ep (hurley)

V - good times on the "Next Generation" and quoting Jacob lol I finally listened to the interview Damon did with Jay and jack during their telecast (it's on their friday podcast from this past week)...anyway...Damon said he'd be a hypocrite if he said that people shouldnt look to "REBOOT" LOST in the future as he is currently working on the sequel to the Star Trek reboot LOL He said he'd actually look forward to seeing what other people could do with the show... I guess it could be interesting down the road...but we definitely would need some distance from the current incarnation and see if there would even be an audience for it. If Blogs are still the craze, we might be able to dust off this site then! LOL

Florin, crazy idea with the multiple cabins and still with Richard being in the cabin. lol And I don't think we ever saw 2 people in the cabin... we saw Christian Shephard in a rocking chair and then we saw an eye...but it could have been the same thing. Of course...maybe that was the start of Hurley seeing ghosts and stuff. Maybe that cabin was part of it. (depends on if Dave was a ghost too).....so maybe the moving cabin WAS Jacob related and not Smokey. I'm just making stuff up as I go here though lol

i agree locke needs to stay dead in the end but some kind of REDEMPTION arc would still be great for his character. Even if it is in ghost form. We still don't know how this sideways story will play in either. As for Jack...i'm still undecided and will just defer to the writers on this one. It makes sense for him to be the tragic hero in the end, but will audiences like it? dunno.... matthew fox himself said he thinks his character should die at the end. I guess we'll just have to see!

wow...there's still lots of comments to get to. I'm gonna have to try to catch up tomorrow lol It's LATE!

Keep up the discussion...I'll catch up eventually! :-)

Glenn R. said...

I rewatched ab aeterno last night, and have to say... after seeing the Richard-Isabella-Hurley scene at the end, it seems incredibly clear to me that -- even if Isabella is not Jacob, that she is there for one reason, and one reason only -- to manipulate Richard against MIB for Jacob.

If you are in the camp of people who believe that that was the real Isabella, I would like to hear your explanation for why the real Isabella would want Richard to stop the MIB.

Also, another observation is the fact that in the final message, Hurley conveys to Richard that if he doesn't help stop MIB, then they will all go to "hell"!

To me this scene (and use of the word "hell" by Jacob through Hurley to Richard), along with the fact that MIB used the exact same language in telling Richard to kill Jacob that Dogen would later use to convince Sayid to kill fLocke, is very clear evidence that Jacob is EQUALLY as manipulative as MIB. In fact, it almost seems to me that Darlton are screaming that out to us through those two clues, which directly show that MIB and Jacob use the exact same methods to manipulate the island inhabitants to their side.

I guess for me the evidence that neither MIB nor Jacob are "good" is growing, in spite of the fact that we're also getting more suggestions that MIB is "evil incarnate" that the island must cork in order to keep the rest of the world safe.

Glenn R. said...

My mind has also been occupied lately with the question of how does Jack have a son in the sideways timeline, but not in original island timeline.

I recently remembered that there was a scene where Sarah told Jack that she had had a pregnancy scare... but that he shouldn't worry, it came up negative. So, we actually have a reference to a possibility of Jack having a baby in the original timeline.

I'm beginning to suspect that perhaps Sarah actually WAS pregnant, and either didn't want Jack to know, or else had a false negative result on the preg. test which later proved to be wrong.

So what do you think? Is it possible that Sarah might have really had Jack's baby in the original timeline without his knowledge?

Otherwise, how is it that there is such a huge discrepancy between sideways and original timelines -- that Jack has a son in one, but not in the other? We seem to be having clear parallels among all the characters on-island vs. sideways storylines. Having a son in one but not in the other just seems too big a difference. any thoughts?

Glenn R. said...

Finally, one other CRAZY theory explaining Lost... Someone bounced this off me recently, and I must admit, while I don't really buy it, it's a fascinating thought, and one that I could just imagine would be the type of ending Darlton might throw at us that nobody would have thought of.

What if, in the final episode, Jack actually agrees to take Jacob's place. But only under one condition -- that all the Losties get to have another chance, with a clean slate. And then the scene where Jack opens his eye in the season 1 pilot... takes place immediately after the agreement with Jacob in the season 6 finale. Such that Jack actually becomes the new Jacob, and with his time-travel abilities, goes back in time to play a Jacob-like role in all the lives of the Losties from that point forward. And fulfills the message of his tattoo... "He walks amongst us, but he is not one of us."

Somehow, I can't help but wonder if the meaning of that tattoo will come into play here before Lost comes to and end. Could it mean that Jack is the one who will replace Jacob?

And if that were to happen... what if he has the time-travel ability. Such that he can go back and try to help the Losties, but can't directly intervene (the rules, of course! ;-)

Oh, and the other part of this is that MIB would also have the same chance -- to go back to the original crash and have the opportunity to directly manipulate the survivors.

The difference would be that this time, Jacob and MIB would be directly among the Losties this time around -- as Jack, and Locke. Or, maybe they were Jack and Locke all along? ;-)

I don't know, this is hard to put into words. I'm not sure how well i'm explaining it. And there is so much that does not fit and so much more that would have to be answered. But I certainly find it a fascinating concept!

Mike V. said...

Can't Think - Indeed it has been tough to keep up. I'm definitely going to have a harder time this week with the holiday weekend and all, so I'll apologize in advance if I'm not around too much. But you guys seem to have things under control here without me! lol As you saw on the FF recap, there aren't many comments to keep track of. Sadly, this is not a good sign for the state of the show! But...alas, we'll talk about that over there.

In my opinion, there's one thing about GUESSING that Richard was on the black rock...but I think we still had to see it. It's like from seasons 1-3 they planted all of the evidence that Anthony Cooper (Locke's Father) was the conman involved in causing Sawyer's parents' death... but seeing it all played out on the island was the ultimate payoff. The Jacob/MIB scene I can agree with. Besides it being awesome to see those 2 characters talk again, it may not have added much to the story of LOST....even with Jacob asking "WHY" after he already admitted to knowing MIB wanted to kill him. lol Just bizarre. I did like him handing the bottle of wine though! I think the fact that we're all still confused is their ultimate goal. Darlton said they still want us guessing when we start watching that finale how it's all going to end. I'm fine with that. They tell us we're getting a satisfying conclusion, I'm going to buy it until after that last episode is over. And then, if I'm upset...i'm upset....but I'm sure i wouldn't post that news right away...i'd have to take time to digest it all! lol But, I've never been disappointed by one season finale of LOST...so I can't imagine the series finale disappointing me either.

Don't worry...we're going to find out about Adam and Eve..they promised we'd get the answer since season 1...and that they put it there as proof they knew what they were doing (we'll see) But with them revisiting the cave this season...it was almost like a "hey guys, remember this mystery?" reminder that it's something we still should be considering. You know..for the POPCORN VIEWERS! (that was for you AUSTARWARS) I think everyone has speculated about every possible combination of people (even 2 guys! LOL) for Adam and Eve. So, regardless of who it is...we can all say "WE TOTALLY CALLED THAT ONE!" lol or it could be something totally shocking. I'm sure the reveal will be awesome though. We just have to be patient!

Totally agree that the richard story was a flashback....i really don't think there is any guessing about it. listen to the sound effects when we flash in and out of the backstory...it's the normal flashback sound. Now listen to the transition between Island and a FlashSideways...something is a little "OFF" .... Now, that being said, we don't know what the "VARIABLE" is in this Sideways Universe....what factor is different that causes all of these differences? When did it happen? Is it possible that 1867 is the same in both timelines? That, we don't know. (BTW...speaking of AUSTARWARS, he sent me information that the dates of the Black Rock that we had previously learned in the Constant don't add up to this 1867 story we received. Either A.) HUGE continuity error or B.) there is more to that story than we actually received! right now I can't think of any reasons of how it could be B, but I guess we'll see.)

Mike V. said...

I normally don't think the centric episode is really a spoiler. But some people do view that as spoilerish. Here's the hint, we've speculated already that this centric episode was coming and then we were fooled to find out it wasn't that centric episode. And we might see the continuation of a sideways storyline left hanging in a previous episode based on whose centric it is. lol How was that?

Anonymous - I think you already know what I think! NOT PURGATORY! No way, no how...NEVER! lol I will not respond to any more comments about it! LOL And Florin since that next comment starts with it, I'm going to assume it's about it! :-) lol (yep, I'm looking for the easy way out on this one!) ]

DK MD - You see, when I read a comment from Carlton that says they want circularity...to end like it began...i don't look back to the season 5 finale to see how it began...you know? Yes, maybe that actually WAS the beginning of this story of the LOSTIES.....but when I think to the beginning, I think of Jack's eye opening on the island. so if the want to end it the way it began...that's where i see them going. That's why I don't see them repeating a scene from season 5's finale in the season 6 finale to show circularity...how does that prove that they've envisioned the final shot of lost since close to the beginning of the show? Not that they're going to be in the proving game, they already said they weren't...we can choose to believe what we want about their intentions over the past 6 years. but, when i hear they have known the ending shot and couple scenes for the past few years, it's just not what i directly think of. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it (for now)! lol Would I be disappointed if that was the final scene? (jack and locke on the beach) naaaa but it's just not what i think is going to happen.

Mike V. said...

LOST Fan, are you sure that's how it went down with Christian and Flocke in season 5? Didn't Christian tell Sun and Frank to wait there until Locke comes to get them and then they were there by themselves for a little bit? Now, we may have seen storylines in the same episode of Ben and Flocke and Sun/Frank with Christian....but I can't remember in that much detail...i'd have to go watch or read the blog post again lol But, I like where you're heading with the third entity...i just don't know if that's where the writers are headed with this one! lol But it definitely makes sense for some of the bizarre things we have seen (Isabella getting eaten up by smokey being one of them) I still am thinking we've seen various versions of Christian Shephard on the island....a ghost and a smokey incarnation....when Darlton got a question on the podcast about smokey taking the form of various people (and christian was named as one of them) they never batted an eye saying that it "WASN'T" ever Christian....so I dunno. Of course, maybe they didn't want to tip off anyone and they want us to be speculating still. I'm very curious to see what's going on with him! but I think there has to be a major scene between Ghost Christian and Jack...(probably in the final episode) so maybe we'll get their answers then!

Zahasman - lol funny on the cloverfield comment! I know I talked about smokey getting off the island and rampaging the world...but I still think it might be a stretch to think that the writers would be considering that option lol As I even said, doesn't it get to me a little too Godzilla-ish? lol Maybe it is more metaphorical to EVIL being released into the world. Then again, Dogen called Smokey "EVIL INCARNATE" So i dunno!!

Plumb, as others have said, not a stupid question at all! Maybe Jacob did try to kill MIB. And instead he has resorted to keeping him or evil banished on the island. No idea! Of course Jacob told Hurley that MIB is an old friend that has gotten tired of his company. So who knows?! As for overthinking....you don't have to tell ME that! Look how much I write every week! LOL

Okay, I'm posting then I'll get back the rest of the comments!

Mike V. said...

Yeah anonymous and LOST fan, I'm still not sure what was going on with Claire and her "my friend and my father" comment. MIB could have fooled her too with the Christian appearance. Hmmm....maybe Smokey didn't need Locke's body to take the appearance of him. Maybe he truly can be anyone from when he scans those memories and it doesn't have to be a dead body on the island (this would explain Isabella...and MAYBE Ben's mother. we don't know if that was a ghost or smokey...but smokey had never scanned ben...so maybe it was a ghost unless Roger had come in contact with smokey and was scanned). Maybe the whole reason he waited to become LOCKE was because it fooled BEN, Sun and crew into getting him to Jacob with his master plan. There isn't even a maybe about it...that IS why he did it. But he may have been appearing to Claire as Christian first...and then as locke for awhile. She was never in contact with anyone else in season 5 to tell them any differently that it WASN'T locke. I'm just throwing some ideas around...not even sure if that made any sense, but rest assured it made sense in my head! LOL
DK MD - there are definitely rules that various people are following....but who is the ultimate ENFORCER of these rules? That's what i would like to know! And maybe that goes into the 3rd Entity/Judge concept that LOST Fan was mentioning.
Okay, Glenn, 3 comments....i'm gonna have to start a new comment to respond! lol

Mike V. said...

Glenn, i totally agree that neither Jacob nor MIB could be "GOOD" in this story. And I still think the LOSTIES may have to do their own thing in the end to get out of it. But we'll see! As for Isabella being Jacob's manipulation. Maybe. I really don't know how Ghosts work in the world...if they can travel from place to place....but every ghost we had scene previously either died on the island or their body was brought to the island. So the fact that Isabella's ghost is just THERE confuses me. But like I said...they're GHOSTS so who knows what it all is? If it's a JACOB thing....then maybe that makes more sense. But if Jacob was providing these ghost images to various losties....how is he himself appearing as a GHOST to Hurley?

As for Sarah and the pregnancy scare...i was going to go there too (and may have) in the blog that week...but then I did the math. that kid is a teenager....Sarah's pregnancy scare had to be a couple years before the crash...maybe even a year. So I just wasn't able to tie the 2 together. I guess Sarah may have been pregnant in Island timeline...but the years still don't match up! It definitely is a huge discrepancy in Jack's story. And if Sarah turns out to be the mother...they definitely would have met under different circumstances than that crash. Plus...how about Sarah's miracle recovery from that surgery...didn't it seem like Jacob was somehow involved in that one? If this other timeline is showing a "non-jacob involvement" story...then this might make sense that it's not how they met. But explaining how they met earlier (if the mother was sarah)? and how Locke and Helen met differently? I dunno...


very interesting theory on Jack....are you suggesting (or is the theory suggesting) that Jack was "in the know" throughout the whole series? that i cannot buy. and i'm not sure they'd go out of their way to prove why that tattoo is there since people want to forget that episode ever happened! lol but it would be very interesting if they did that! Definitely a fascinating concept! I don't know if i'd like the idea that JACK has not been jack the whole show. Or again, maybe I didn't understand your explanation. But as for an OMG Twist in the final season...that would be kind of nuts! Damon suggested that there may not be an OMG moment coming in this final season like the season 3 finale's flashforward concept. But, even if there was that kind of moment, he wouldn't want to tell us because that could ruin it. He said that we will gradually be brought into the fold on the flash sideways and understand what is going on there. I'm excited to find out! ONE MORE DAY until a new ep!

Keep up the commenting folks!

davidsalako said...

@ Glenn R. - Jack isn't the only one with a Sideways difference regarding a child. So far we haven't seen Sawyer's Cassidy and his very cute daughter Clementine in Sideways world...

Watching "Ab Aetreno" again, I got that feeling of Isabella sounding so much like Jacob on the "hell" stuff to. Maybe once one is dead they just become "all knowing"? MIB is kind of odd in the way he alternates between being very truthful AND being very dishonest. I suspect Jacob is kind of the same to, except his tricks always seem to have the caveat that it is for the greater good. Seems to me that Jacob is also becoming corrupted in small ways by the "malevolence".

I do hope that the oddness of them repeating Jacob and MIB conversation does have some significance in the overall scheme of things and is not a continuity error! Don't the various directors watch previous episodes of LOST like we do? lol!

davidsalako said...

correction...Ab Aeterno...

Weasel said...

@Mike V: I meant when he appears as a loved one, etc...

Mike V. said...

David, good point on no Cassidy/Clementine in the Sawyer story.

I don't think it's the directors that write the lines! lol Damon and Carlton approve each script that is written...all of the writers break the story together and then the writers go off with their assignments and then Darlton give the thumbs up on each script. Yeah, I just don't get that whole scene. But I guess it was just to set up the fact that MIB had to beg Jacob to be left off of the island. Hopefully if we get a Jacob/MIB origin story all of these scenes may be revisited (trying my best to be unspoilery with my "IF" statement but ultimately not succeeding lol)

it does certainly seem like these dead characters have a lot of knowledge on what's going on. I sure would hope there's an explanation to that! Maybe it is as simple as saying that JACOB has been involved with it all. Maybe not. We'll see!

Weasel - I totally forget the question I asked! lol But thanks for the clarification!

Mike V. said...

nevermind Weasel, I went back and re-read. I get what you're saying!

DK MD said...

If I were a betting man, I would put chips on those insights that go all the way back to the initial eye-opener (scene). The question comes then: how much of the underlying theoretical substrata of Lost will be unveiled? As in life, the fundamental questions ask for answers and do not let the curious go (why are we here? where did we come from? where are we going). Perhaps it is just the asking we will have to be satisfied with (though none of us hope that is the case, and answers will be given !). One of the great attractions to Lost is that answers have been promised. Unlike life, where one is always circling back for greater understanding. Or will we be on this blog in 2216 (alive? dead? both?) still circling back to our first encounter with Lost and scratching out heads. Wondering.

davidsalako said...

My bad Mike V..I assumed directors get the option to modify dialogue lines in scenes if they believe it plays better. Most likely with the approval of the writers, depending on how much clout the writers have. I have no idea what I am talking about...time for coffee!

davidsalako said...

@DK MD - I have no doubt that LOST will end in some sort of circular way. It is the only logical conclusion. Plus I believe it was the original title of the show - "The Circle".

Mike V. said...

DK - yes we all want answers, but at the same time the producers and fans are also arguing that maybe we DON'T want them. They want to leave enough ambiguity in the show when it ends that we will still have things to debate on and on...that some will be left to interpretation. Maybe it can be viewed as COPPING OUT, but I think if they were to definitively answer some of the things we have been pondering, it may end up being "OVER-explained" I think the underlying thing that we will always remember with lost is not the mysteries that were answered or unanswered, but how great of a story they weaved and the roller-coaster ride of emotions we enjoyed while watching LOST. The characters that unfolded before us. There are many types of fans....many thrive on the sci-fi and them mysteries on the show. And yes, it wouldn't be LOST without that aspect. but the journey these characters have been on is what people identify with the most. Just look at FlashForward....that show has an awesome sci-fi premise and I'm enjoying the suspense on the show...but there is definitely something missing. It's the characters...we don't care about them nearly as much as we did on LOST! Maybe that will change...but i dunno...it seems that no show has been able to capture this LOST-ian magic. And we can only hope that we're still around in 2216 talking about LOST! lol I wonder if anyone would still be paying my 10 dollars a year to keep the "lostaddictsblog.com" url alive and well! LOL

Well, David, no need in apologizing to me! lol I don't know for sure what directors can and can't do on LOST. But from listening to Jorge's podcast...it sounds like he's only improvised 2 lines in the history of LOST and the director left it in (well...the editing team along with Darlton probably approved that take on the scene lol) 1.) When Hurley was doing a census and talking to Locke and he walked up to one of the RED-Shirts and said "hey I know i already talked to you but I'm just trying to get away from that guy" lol and 2.) When he asked Richard if he was a vampire this season. Good times! LOL So I don't know how much the directors do on site. Maybe they decided that they had to throw in the "WHY" question to make the scene work better...and then the editors agreed. I would love nothing more than to know how all of the filming and editing and directing works on LOST or any show. It would be an awesome field to be in. Alas, here I am just typing about it while I sit at my desk procrastinating! LOL

I agree with a circular ending in terms of season 6 kind of coming "FULL CIRCLE" on themes and stories we were introduced to in season 1. But as for a CONSTANT LOOP where Jack wakes up and we repeat things again. I just don't know. I still don't see how that provides us a satisfying ending. LOL In fact, if we do find out that some kind of circle of timelines is in existence (a la The Matrix)....then I would hope that this is the LAST cycle we're witnessing where the LOSTIES would break it! But, I don't really know what I'm talking about and I would certainly hope they're not copying the awful 2 matrix sequels! LOL

DK MD said...

Don't know whether I have posted this brief writing from the 12th century Zen Master Dogen, before. If I have, please forgive. Still, it is worth a look:


“You must recognize that every thing, every being in the entire world, is time. No object obstructs another, just as not time obstructs another…..As there is no other time than this, every being-time is the whole of time: one blade of grass, every single object is time. Each point of time includes every being and every world….You may think that that mountain and that river are things of the past, that I have left them behind and am now living in the is palatial building–they are as separate from me as heaven is from earth.

However the truth has another side. When I climbed the mountain and crossed the river, I was (time). ….

When time is not regarded as a phenomenon which ebbs and flows, the time I climbed the mountain is the present moment of being-time. …Do not regard time as merely flying away; do not think that flying away is its sole function. …In a word, every being in the entire world is a separate time in one continuum.

And since being is time, I am my being-time. Time has the quality of passing, so to speak, from today to tomorrow, from today to yesterday, from yesterday to today, from today to today, from tomorrow to tomorrow.

Because this passing is a characteristic of time, present time and past time do not overlap or impinge upon one another….”

Dogen: 12th century

DK MD said...

Mike V - thanks I think you are very much right on (though the right on-ness of any of us remains to be seen).

I did not even know there was a $10 contribution possible. I gotta go look and pony-up !

Florin Milea said...

Mike V - Your scanning my posts got you in trouble. I Do Not Agree with purgatory either. Do please try and re-watch slowly 'Cabin Fever', you'll understand better my theory with two cabins and two people in when Hurley/Hugo sees it and takes a peek inside.

Nice take Glenn R. That ending would be nice. Locke could be still in the wheel chair but happily married to Helen. As Isabella a manipulation, I could agree, but who's doing it? My money are not yet on Jacob been bad.

I am having a hard time reading all posts. More later.

Mike V. said...

DK - I appreciate you wanting to donate money lol That actually isn't what I meant! I meant I pay $10 a year for the domain name "www.lostaddictsblog.com" this is a blog on BLOGGER.COM but I wanted to distinguish my site name. Actually though, if you want to help out, please click on the "gather.com" link at the bottom of every post. I share this content on that site as well and get small contributions for my efforts based on number of views I get over there. I appreciate any help you guys have been giving me!

Florin, I can't get in trouble! I have lots to read on here so I think you all understand if I misinterpret something LOL But I'm glad you don't think it's purgatory! :-) But I am just so tired of discussing the option (it's been 6 years now and it's been declined by the producers since day 1) that I have lost the will to even convince people that it ISN'T! I just resort to the "100% NO WAY NO HOW!" responses now lol

Anyway, the episode where Hurley sees the cabin moving around and the "2 people" is actually the season premiere of season 4 "The Beginning of the End" We definitely see Christian Shephard in there...and then we see an EYE at the end. but we have no idea if there are 2 different people in that cabin. for all we know it could have just been smokey changing from one form to another. we don't even know what was up with the moving cabin! LOL But considering Hurley is the one seeing ghosts and stuff these days, maybe whoever is responsible for the GHOSTS is responsible for the cabin he is seeing. And yes...then in another episode "Confirmed Dead" or "The Economist" (it was before they were settled in in Eggtown lol) we see Locke stumble upon the ash with no cabin in sight. And then in "Cabin Fever" that is when Locke has the dream of Horace and gets the map from the DHARMA grave. And then they find the cabin again (and we don't see if they cross any ash circles or not this time) the whole cabin thing is very very confusing! lol We can only hope to get clarification in the final episodes. Maybe not specifically on the cabin, but maybe we'll get enough information to figure out what was going on there.

but i may have just, in all of those words, somehow agreed with you that there are 2 cabins lol or maybe only 1 cabin...and 1 "GHOSTLY" cabin.

this show drives me bonkers!

Mike V. said...

Looked back at my blog from "the beginning of the end" and I mention seeing Christian Shephard in the cabin/shack and what looks to be John Locke's EYE lol

http://www.lostaddictsblog.com/2008/01/lost-season-4-episode-1-beginning-of.html

I did some crazy speculating after that about Locke which didn't turn out quite accurate but it was fun speculation at the time. But knowing what we know now....and that possibly being Locke/Flocke in the cabin with christian...and claire talking about her father and her "friend" telling her stuff. very interesting right?

davidsalako said...

Really interesting - Hugo seeing Christian and then Locke's eye in the moving cabin. What will be even more interesting is if Sawyer gets to see Christian at some point on the island.

Please LOST writers, can Hugo and Miles have one more adventure going to the caves to visit "Adam & Eve" and put us out of our misery! As long as they are not kissing step-siblings Boone and Shannon, I am okay! lol

Shannon said...

Looks as though the black rock came after the mystery ship at the end of season five…

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1490-15.html

…Richardo came after

Mike V. said...

indeed david...sawyer running into Christian would definitely be interesting. Not sure how big a deal it would be considering he already knew that it was Jack's dad. (still loved that scene in season 1 when he told Jack about his encounter with Christian) And yes...i 2nd the hope that it's not boone and shannon! lol

Speaking of Shannon - Shannon, I don't think it was even a question that the STATUE wasn't there in the season 5 ep. In fact, that was the big reveal of the FRONT of the statue (or the frontal side lol) I think Darlton have pretty much confirmed that the ship we saw in season 5 WAS the black rock...and we may find out later this season more about the Island Storms and how it could have happened so quickly after that scene.

But the bigger concern of mine now is the date discrepencies on the Black Rock information we had. Surely their writing department and continuity expert Greg Nations wouldn't be THAT sloppy with the dates. Surely, they have a timeline they follow. But in THE CONSTANT at the auction with charles widmore, they mention lots of Black rock events happening in the 1840's and the journal being found in the 1850's. YIKES...Richard was on the Black Rock in 1867.... so if it wasn't an error..then maybe Magnus Hanso WAS shipping people back and forth for Jacob? Maybe Jacob WAS Magnus Hanso? Maybe Jacob is all of the Hansos. It was pretty bizarre that they didn't show us Magnus Hanso and we've only seen a vague picture of Alvar Hanso.... hmmmm i might be onto something here! lol

Mike V. said...

okay...i rethought this more...jacob was sitting on the beach and magnus was on the boat. So I'm not so sure that would work that they're the same person. But it is pretty strange that we have never seen any of the Hansos in the flesh!

Mike V. said...

and i know there is a close up picture of Alvar that we've seen but it was never on the show to my recollection. It was just during the "LOST EXPERIENCE" which was the offseason online "game" between season 2 and 3 and not necessarily considered canon to the show.

But I'm grasping at straws now to explain why those dates are messed up!

AUStarwars said...

Mike,

Its ok, the Stormtroooper hits his head in A New Hope also...continuity errors happen when you are making a huge movie (show) on a low budget...

Oh wait ;-)

Look it even happens in Avatar:
Continuity: Jake is reviewing the structure of the home tree with Quaritch and Selfridge around the rotating 3-D map. When Jake makes a comment about the Na'vi studying him, his watch reads 2:19. Selfridge makes a comment about how the tree is sitting right over the richest Unobtanium deposit. When the camera cuts back to Jake his watch now reads 2:57.

its not a big deal, just a minor sign of laziness

i would just be more careful about specific dates in a show about Time Travel

btw, if you want a good time travel movie, see Hot Tub Time Machine...hilarious!

Mike V. said...

I have every intention of seeing that movie as soon as possible!

yeah continuity errors happen, but considering they mentioned a black rock date in the most revered episode of LOST (The Constant), you would think they could remember the date they said, or have all of their scripts in a database and search for all mentions of the black rock!! LOL or hell, just check lostpedia! LOL

Yeah, I guess we can forgive it, but maybe, just maybe...there is something else going on here!

davidsalako said...

Are we supposed to be thinking that Ricardo, MIB and Jacob are the only 3 people alive on the island at the end of "Ab Aeterno"?

Mike V. said...

David, we're meant to think that. But Darlton suggested that Jacob may have been lying to Richard about everyone on the island being dead. They also asked if we should consider that conversation between Jacob and Richard "THE ORIGIN OF THE OTHERS" and it sounds like there is still more to come on that story. They were very vague about it lol

davidsalako said...

Jacob's assertion that he would simply be replaced if he were killed by MIB was intriguing. It seems this cork/island or whatever it is has a will of its own beyond these two pseudo-immortals....
Perhaps the island can only be destroyed by the fire of Mount Doom? Or is that a different franchise and perhaps water instead?? lol!

Candidate said...

Hi from an FTP. I've been reading this blog since the start of this season 6 faithfully AND all the comments. Mike great job on your writing skills, dedication and promptness. I just signed up for a gmail and google account just so i can post and perhaps contribute to this community. I have checked out other blogs and recaps for lost and have been dissapointed and sometimes infuriated. Always a safe bet for my lost analyses days right here at lost addicts. cant wait until tommorow!

Florin Milea said...

Okay, fellow Losties, you’re finally catching up with the cabin thing. But...

In the episode where John Locke forces Ben to go to see Jacob and Mikhail is not happy with the freighter stuff which just made shore having to wait.

So Be and John goes to the cabin, they have the conversation where Ben talks to an empty chair, the brouhaha with the flashlight and John gets a glimpse of the guy on the chair saying in a week voice: Help me. I froze the screen and I think that person resembles the BR Ricardo.

So we have in the cabin, Ben, John and supposedly Jacob.

In the next episode the group splits at the Radio Tower in Jack’s group and John Lockes group, where Ben asks Jack to let him leave with John, Sawyer says to Kate ‘I am surviving, what do you think I am doing,’ when she asks what is he doing going with John now, and they set in the jungle.

John is going to go to the cabin again to ask Jacob for further instructions. During this trip at night, Hugo gets lost from the group, been tired and still grieving for Charlie. That’s when he stumbles on the same cabin. He goes to it, takes a peak through the broken window, and that’s when he sees the same figure on the chair. Then only the upper left part of a skull with the eye, pops up. The face looked Clearly Surprised that someone other than Ben or John can see the thing. It was like saying in words: How the hell did you...?, how can you...?, I can’t believe that you can see all of this, and that person was not a Happy Camper. This is a fast moving scene because Hugo gets freaked out and runs. You have to freeze the scene and go frame by frame. That’s when I assume Hugo broke the circle of ash.

He catches up with the group, is getting daytime now they do find the ash, but no cabin. They keep on going, night sets in, they set camp and sleep. John has the vision of Horace, wakes up and Significantly, Ben who realised John is dreaming, says in a sad voice: I used to have dreams to. As soon as that happens, John says: I know what to do next, so they go to the grave, digs for the map in the uniform of a dead Horace. With that they go to the cabin and that’s when they see Christian and Claire.

So I am confused as to why two potential cabins. That’s why I developed the Flichard theory. MiB/Smokey at this time I think, imprisoned Ricardo. He used his body and his cabin Ricardo built after taking the job from Jacob, to fool everybody, Ben included. Impersonating Ricardo, Smokey/MiB pretended to be Jacob and fooled everybody in implementing his plans, not Jacob.

Remember: Jacob didn’t killed anybody, not directly that is. MiB/Smokey did. Jacob doesn’t release all the information or plan right away, but wants the island protected. MiB/Smokey wants out. Jacob always had short cut hair just like MiB. Ricardo had it long. Jacob lived in a the statue by the beach, not in the jungle. MiB lived in a cave by the sea, Smokey lived under a temple. What’s with the need for a cabin? Deception is in my opinion. Ricardo was in colonial clothing, Richard is corporate style in many occasions. So I added up all those things and I concluded there’s got to be something to it.

Mike V. said...

Candidate, thanks so much for writing in and, of course, signing up just to post! I'm glad you and so many find this blog as the best place to come and chat LOST after a blog. It's always what I envisioned when I started it, but I never imagined it would grow at the rate it has! I'm very thankful to all of you as well!

David - nice LOTR reference....and with a volcano yet to be seen on the island, it's not a bad suggestion! lol

Florin, still not buying Richard as smokey. That original image we saw in the cabin was due to the fact that Jacob and/or the Man in Black had not been cast yet. I believe they had LOST's PROP Guy Rob Kyker stand in for the shot. If you look at this picture, you'll see many similarities: http://www.lostdiscovery.com/immagini/Rob_Kyker.jpg

I do not doubt the fact that it may have been MIB in the cabin with Locke and Ben. I never have. (i think that is still a very strong possibility based on what ILANA said when they got to the cabin)....but I do not think that we were meant to see Richard in his 1860's get-up during that scene! lol

Btw - Apologies to Belazethi who also mentioned the Black Rock date discrepencies back on 3/25. I probably even acknowledged it when I responded back then....but man, I guess my brain is getting too full! lol at least the section that holds all of the LOST stuff! :-)

Mike V. said...

btw...here's the shot from "Man Behind the Curtain" to compare to Rob Kyker's pic.

http://lostphoto.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/jacob-manbehindthecurtain.jpg

DK MD said...

Interesting. Maybe Rob Kyker was asked to provide a prop for any MIB-occupied human. In which case it could be anyone, even Rob himself.

MJ said...

Spoilerphobs beware of tv guide article about the actress who plays Sun getting married - the article contained a couple of spopilerish tidbits if you've been staying away from any spoils.

Also tv guide has a phone interface with Zoe (Sheila Kelly) but it's basicly a video interview who's dialog was printed last week in an article.

Mike V. said...

"I'm glad you and so many find this blog as the best place to come and chat LOST after a blog."

btw...i meant "after an episode" lol after a blog makes no sense! :-)

DK - Maybe! MIB seems the type of person that would put on a show and we have seen him DUPE both Locke and Ben..getting them to work into his plan. Maybe the man in the chair was never meant to be discernable....it was just the fact that someone WAS there. Still one of the creepiest scenes ever to be on LOST, that's for sure! lol

DK MD said...

...and the question remains: to whom, from whom, (and why?)the call to "help me." Unless it is simply part of MIB's subterfuge

Mike V. said...

Thanks for the heads up MJ! I did read a Yunjin Kim Q&A a few weeks ago and I thought it was a bit too spoilerish too. Nothing major, but definitely stuff pertaining to hers and jin's characters. I think I can hold off until their centric episode to see if I get more info. And naturally, to avoid being overly spoilerish, I will not say when that episode will happen. But I did hint at it in this comments section at one point.

Mike V. said...

Exactly DK...that's what I'm wondering as well.

And who/what was portraying TALLER GHOST WALT that convinced Locke not to kill himself? Whatever was portraying that Kid that told MIB about the "RULES"? The voice of the ISLAND? lol

Mike V. said...

So, I just clicked on comments and it said there were "861341" comments LOL I think either we're overloading BLOGGER's server or they are just having some major issues lately. I hope things stay up in running during the peak hours of LOST blogging and discussion tonight and tomorrow!

DK MD said...

Blogger is probably using Amazon S3 as backup, which has increased the server capacity of many these days. The only thing better than Addicts would be snapshots of the white boards in the Lindelof-Carlton conference room!

Mike V. said...

That sure would be much better than the BLOG! lol I'd love to just blog ABOUT those whiteboards! LOL Of course, it wouldn't matter now because they have all been erased for good :-( So sad to think that the story is all written...but exciting at the same time!

Interesting on Amazon servers. I guess that would make sense. Blogger was down earlier this morning, that's what gave me cause for concern. Hopefully, their troubles are behind them!

Mike V. said...

I think I can hold off until their centric episode to see if I get more info. And naturally, to avoid being overly spoilerish, I will not say when that episode will happen. But I did hint at it in this comments section at one point.

FYI - to the anonymous poster that I just deleted. I know when Jin and Sun's episode is lol I was saying I didn't want to spoil it for anyone who didn't want to know (see above). And I deleted the comment because of the 2nd comment you mentioned that sounded like a spoiler and not speculation! Sorry!

Weasel said...

Less than 10 hours until LOST! I always get excited on LOST day... :)

Mike V. said...

yup me too! it's like Christmas every Tuesday....or I guess, in this case, Passover! LOL

Anonymous said...

Mike V,

Sorry about that. I mis read your post and thought you were asking when it was. I apologize, rough day here in nyc with this weather. Need more coffee.

Love the blog!

-Stay LOST.

MJ said...

Yeah - I know who's centric it is and the title tonight too - and I had a good clue as to something that we might find out tonight due to LA X - but I know that others do NOT want to know. And that article confirms what I 'thought' we might find out tonight - so that was why I put the warning out, as it was a sneaky place to throw a clue in on the show, thinking you are reading something only about the actresses personal life.

Mike V. said...

Anonymous (Stay LOST) - No prob, I figured it was a misunderstanding and not an intentional spoiling. I really try to avoid deleting comments so I apologize for the deletion as well! It's not any less miserable here in PA either, btw lol

MJ - I'm guessing that the spoilerish comment that was posted was the exact thing that you read then. And, if that's the case, I speculated it as well! So, it's not a huge spoiler but for anyone that didn't catch the subtle reference in LA X...it could be considered one!

Thanks MJ again for the heads up and thanks Anonymous for your understanding!

Mike V. said...

New Record! 300 comments on one post! Ab Aeterno certainly deserved that. Of course, the big question is...how many posts were actually just ME extending my ramblings? :-)

DK MD said...

I predict (no spoiler here; just guessing)...Sun will marry the father of her child in the sideways timeline.

Anonymous said...

DK MD,

I predict that jin is not the father of suns baby in the STL. And I feel that they are not married in the STL. Judging from the scenes in LAX I have gathered my opinions. So maybe shes married to that bald guy.

-Jackson

Candidate said...

My area is not showing the enhanced version of Ab Aeterno. They've decided to run Dancing With The Stars. INHO (Dancing With The Stars??? Oh PLEEEAAAZZZEEE.) I realize there is a timing problem (Extra 5 minutes or was it 7?) but C'mon...Dancin WT Stars??? So does anyone know if an enhanced version was made? Maybe that will be posted on ABC.com

MJ said...

Yeah - I'm not getting the enhanced in the SOuth Jersey/Philly market either. I think DWTS will always now be Tues 8pm. Booooooo

Bryan said...

No enhanced ep on the west coast either :(

Waaaaah!

Mike V. said...

Ahhh interesting theories DK and Jackson...never thought about the possibility of JAE returning (I always called him LOST Baldy #2 on the blog lol)but that is a possibility since he had plans to go to America at one point too.

Candidate, MJ, Bryan - Yep same issue here...DWTS is taking that slot. I think all of the enhanced episodes end up on ABC.com like you mentioned Candidate. I think they have made an Enhanced episode for them all since season 3's finale "Through the Looking Glass" Not sure if they went back and fixed them for seasons 1 and 2. I hated how the "Through the Looking Glass" Enhanced Ep says right in the beginning "THIS IS A FLASHFORWARD" it ruins/ruined the biggest twist in all of LOST for anyone watching it that way for the first time!

but for rewatching? The enhanced versions are a good time, there is always one or 2 interesting tidbits to speculate or clarify.

Mike V. said...

Looks like Jensen is on a trip today (on assignment) so there isn't going to be a post from him. Adam Vary posted a LOST Countdown post. Not sure if there will be a TOTALLY LOST either! bummer.

FYI - Warning to those who don't want to know whose centric episode it is tonight. Granted, if you're reading these comments, you probably already know lol I tried as long as I could to keep the cat in the bag!



EW's Countdown to LOST

davidsalako said...

Okay, I have another crazy thought - if Alvar Hanso had this deal going on with Jacob and came to the island several times - what if there was an arrangement between Alvar Hanso and Jacob? - which is how the planes knew how to find the island for the Dharma food drops.
Maybe like someone theorized Jacob IS all the Hansos! lol!

davidsalako said...

Enhanced episodes are also on Hulu.com

davidsalako said...

The first Hanso in my comment above was supposed to be Magnus Hanso...

MJ said...

Sheesh ! No Totally Lost, no enhanced eps. More frakking rain ! This is not turning out to be a Lost-tastic Tuesday.

Candidate said...

So Mike are you saying DWTS will be taking that time spot for the rest of Lost season 6? In Vermont (Where I Reside) They dont run lost or enhanced versions on any day but tuesday. No reruns on Sunday or any other day. So I Guess I will be watching enhanced versions when Blu-Ray is released or online for now i suppose

Greg said...

Ok I am throwing out my 2 cents about Black Rock ship. I have not read all 300 comments so if someone already pointed this out I am sorry... I think that the scene where MIB and Jacob were sitting on the beach and saw the Black Rock was just another point in time. If the Black Rock was used to take slaves to the "New World" then it is possible that this was not the only time it when it went past the moving island of “Hell”. I know a lot of people have complained about this but remember ships did not just go to one point and never go back to where they came from. It could also be possible that Jacob somehow pulled people off the Black Rock or other ships without making them crash. IF the island is truly moving which I believe it is I am sure ships have past it before and no one would have ever thought about it being anything special.

Mike V. said...

David, you meant Magnus first right (yep, just saw your correction lol)? Lol yeah that's where I was going with that concept...if Magnus had a deal with jacob...then maybe Alvar continued it (or even possibly IS still Magnus Hanso)....which means Jacob lured the DHARMA crew there too with the help of the Hansos. I dunno..it's always possible! Although Darlton did tell us that they won't be covering the food drops on the show itself...so it sounds like that will be an Encyclopedia entry! But we might be able to figure it out from what we learn on the show!

MJ, keep the faith! LOST will still air tonight! we'll make it!

Candidate - I would think that is the case with DWTS. Monday performances, Tuesday results. At least that's how I thought the show works (i don't really watch it) I don't think the enhanced versions are on the blu-rays are they? If so, I've never seen them. But they'll definitely be online.

Greg, it's an interesting theory! But I think Darlton have pretty much confirmed that both the season 5 finale scene with Jacob/MIB and the Black Rock crashing happen on the same day. They hinted that we're going to get more info on ISLAND STORMS before the end of the season that might clarify what we saw.

but what you said about jacob pulling people off of ships makes a lot of sense too. Since we saw people FLASH off of the Ajira flight. Then again...that plane still crash landed on the island.

Anyway, what you're bringing up may help cover the discrepancies over the Black Rock dates in THE CONSTANT with the 1867 date we were given in this last episode. We'll see! (maybe)

And I don't think there is any debate to the idea that the island is moving. We were given this information in the season 4 episode Cabin Fever, the season 4 finale, season 5 premiere and the season 5 episode 316. It's totally moving! lol Now whether it was in one location for a period of time and NOT moving (hence the "FROZEN" donkey wheel)...that is still a possibility.

Candidate said...

I am totally buying into the theory's about the BR and M.Hanso. The Br being the first means of transportation on and off the island with maps in the ledger leading Whidmore to the island in time for the big showdown. Hanso could have made the ship and the dharma shark which could be some kind of tracking device.

Mike V. said...

Candidate, I was with you all the way until the DHARMA Shark! I think that was just forshadowing the existence of the Hydra station and the Shark Tank where Jack was held captive. Plus, Sawyer killed the Shark so I'm not sure how much it would have helped to be a tracking device for Widmore! lol But you never know!

The whole concept of the Black Rock being used to shuttle people to the Island and Magnus being involved is definitely an interesting concept though!

316 comments...who knew we'd hit a LOST Flight Number on one blog post? Anyone up for a goal of 815 comments on the finale post?! :-) lol

davidsalako said...

@Candidate - I was with you to until u "jumped the shark" with the Dharma shark.
Just kidding and no offense meant.

Mike V. said...

If Fonzie comes in water-skiing in the opening minutes of the FINALE, I'M OUT! LOL

davidsalako said...

Anyone have theories as to why Smokey did not venture to the beach and kill more of the Oceanic 815 survivors but instead stumped around in the jungle.
Aside from limited ABC budget for the pilot episode that is!

MJ said...

Intriguing challenge ! Get to 815 posts for the Lost finale. LOL It could happen - we'll probably be talking about that one for weeks

Mike V. said...

I think more than the budget it was the slow unveiling of the MYSTERY of the Island. For much of the first season, we thought the monster was a dinosaur! I also think that when they filmed the pilot they also did NOT have answers to the questions they were throwing out there. They developed the mythology once they knew they had a hit on their hands. And they finalized the mythology once they set an end date! (season 3)

But taking all of that OUT if the picture and just looking at LOST as a show thought out from start to finish...I would say that their logic behind it would be that Smokey "improved" his strategy with each crop of people that came to the Island. And considering this was the last group of candidates he knew he had to get it right this time. Of course, I am generalizing.

Here's another question, have we ever seem Smokey as "SMOKE" on the beach? He has always been in human form whether it was Yemi, Flocke, or maybe even Christian Shephard (still not convinced that was him on the beach)....Every time we have seen smokey it has been in the jungle.... OKAY...just remembered one instance where he was on the beach...it was in Jacob's foot...but that was indoors. Maybe smokey DOES have some kind of limitation around water. I still don't know why Flocke took his shoes off before getting in the boat between Hydra and Main Island....it seemed so blatant and we didn't see Ben do the same thing!

Anonymous said...

Okay, lets take some bets. When and if Jin and Sun find each other.....will they speak korean or english to eachother, since jin now knows english. (But sun doesnt know this!)

Just something funny to watch for.

-Jackson

Mike V. said...

Yeah, I think it's definitely possible to get to 815 comments. Every finale episode has shown a doubling in normal traffic. If that stays the case, it's going to be a crazy couple weeks on this blog!

BTW - Remember earlier this season when I said a goal might be to get to 200,000 hits before the end of the series? It looks like it's going to happen this week, maybe even tomorrow! So, now I'm setting my sights on 250,000! With this past week topping out at 11,100 hits (yet again a new record!), I don't think it's going to be a problem lol

davidsalako said...

Yeah, I realized to that we have NEVER seen a scene of the awesome "divine intervention" Smokey against the background of the beach and ocean. Always indoors and in the jungle.

Mike V. said...

yeah you'd think Jack or Hurley would have filled Sun in about Jin at this point. So maybe she does know he speaks english, but there should definitely still be a comment about it.

Of course, it would definitely depend on the circumstances of their reunion, if it happens tonight. We have seen a Jin/Sun reunion before, so maybe the producers have something else in store for this meeting whenever it happens.

I will guess KOREAN will be spoken upon their reunion! lol

Mike V. said...

okay...done commenting for now! Off to a couple meetings and then will be off to my Tuesday rituals prior to LOST. So enjoy any additional commenting folks! I will try to respond if I can. If not, I'll see you on tomorrow's recap!

davidsalako said...

Kind of miss the vengeful Sun from the Oceanic 6. I bet they speak Korean in their reunion. A recreation of that awesome helicopter scene with her screaming and him running on the deck of the Kahana ship. Good Times!

Anonymous said...

I think its going to be english.

whats the line?

davidsalako said...

"Your English is wonderful..." sob, sob... :-)

Anonymous said...

"She says your english is awesome dude!" hahah

Hurley is awesome. Im so happy they made him such a critical character in the show. I was watching Curb your enthusiasm the other night and Jorge Garcia had a tiny role in an episode. It was so funny.

MJ said...

I don't know about line #1 - something like "I've searched for you for years now'. But for line number 2.... In Korean, as Jin touches her abdomen - 'Our baby - what did we have ?'

Anonymous said...

MJ,

Sun's answer to your second line:

"We had a beautiful baby candidate." :P

-Jackson

Bill said...

Greetings, Mike. Lovely weather here in E PA, huh? And are we to believe that you don’t have time for a DWTS blog?

There’s something that’s been bugging me about last week’s episode, just haven’t had time to post until now. The year is 1867 and Whitfield is recruiting English-speaking slaves for Hanso to take to the New World, which presumably means the U.S. The problem with that is that slavery was abolished via the 13th Amendment in 1865. I certainly hope that this is not a writer’s “continuity” error, given the importance of this event in U.S. history. So, I’m thinking the sole purpose of this voyage of the BR was to deliver Richard (possibly others) to the island (maybe it was the only purpose of most or all of the other voyages as well – hence the importance of the log book to finding the island). This may be a minor point in the big picture of the whole series, but if it wasn’t a timeline error, then maybe the writers wanted us to figure out that slavery wasn’t the real purpose of the trip. It would then also point to a definite working relationship between Hanso and Jacob.

Series finale: Bob Newhart wakes up, turns on the light, and says “Honey, you’ll never believe the dream I just had …” (best ending to a TV show ever). It’s really unfortunate that we no longer have Suzanne Pleshette or Mary Frann to play the role of his wife though.

I didn’t just violate my own “no more theories” policy did I?

MJ said...

Good one Jackson ! LOL

Anonymous said...

Bill....Mike V...,

You guys are in EPA? I went to college in NEPA. I graduated from the university of scranton last year! But I am from NYC. Where in EPA?

-Jackson

MJ said...

Bill - very very true about Newhart and one of the very best finale's ever.

Mike V. said...

I'll get to the comments in a second (even though I won't say much on them! LOL) but I had to tell you all...

TOTALLY LOST IS UP!

Totally LOST!

Mike V. said...

Love all the LINES guys! I have no speculations but maybe Sun would say something like "I thought you were dead!" But at the same time...again it depends on HOW they reunite! We may not get a whole running on the beach scene as this as been done before lol

Love the Newhart theory Bill. even though I have heard of that ending many times, I never actually have seen it lol And no time at all for a DWTS blog! I don't even watch it :-)

All the stuff with the Black Rock you say makes sense with the year and all. This was POST CIVIL WAR United States that they were potentially sailing to. I'm liking the "hanso/jacob conspiracy" idea more and more all of the time. Of course, I'm sure we'll just see nothing more about it LOL

Ahh good ol' Scranton. I was just there for a wedding. and of course...you can't think Scranton without thinking THE OFFICE! No problem Bill on exploiting my whereabouts! Afterall, I do have it on Gather like you said! lol Jackson - in case you were wondering, Collegeville is just outside of Philly. I grew up in South Jersey.

Off to get TOTALLY LOST and then head home for LOST night! :-)

Weasel said...

I say we shoot for 316,815 hits on the site :)

Shannon said...

...I think Sun might die. In the previews for tonight's show (I saw last week) I saw her lying on the ground in an odd pose.

OHHHH!!! I'm so excited for tonight's show...I hope Sun and Jin get reuinted and Sun doesn't die.

Glenn R. said...

Hey Mike. Quick question: I keep hearing you and others talking about the fact that there are some people on your blog who don't even want to know whose episode is forthcoming from week to week. But I've never actually heard anyone say in the first person that they personally don't want that.

I'm just wondering if those people actually exist. That information is out there in so many places. Have you actually put that question out there recently? Maybe there really aren't any people in here who don't want to even know the next episode -- which is really the most basic type of spoiler -- call it spoiler lite!

Not to mention that you are even hinting at it. So, couldn't we just officially say that that and only that type of "spoiler" is okay to talk about in here (i.e. who is centric in the upcoming episode)? I'm guessing that a HUGE majority don't really care.

It sure would be nice to be able to pre-speculate on the upcoming episode... :-)

Shannon said...

I'm with Glenn - it would be nice to pre-speculate on upcoming episodes

OR maybe if certain people don't want to read it then we could type SPOILER before, so they know not to read that comment.

Mike V. said...

Glenn, the complainers have posted before when I did reveal it lol I never really considered them spoilers before either but some people put there don't even watch the previews for next week! It's nuts!

So I am a little more relaxed in the comments section with what I'll talk about/ not talk about. But in the actual post I've stopped talking about stuff like that. There are all different levels of sensitivity around spoilers. But at this point, the discussion has gone that way so I think people can surmise what tonight's episode is about! Lol

but there was an actual "reveal" posted on the blog earlier which I had to delete.

Shannon I hope she doesn't die, but I have been having similar concerns myself that maybe one will die just as they are reuniting or something nuts like that. We will see! I don't think either will die tonight though. But we will see!

Weael- challenge accepted! Lol

Mike V. said...

Shannon yeah I usually do stuff like that as well with anything I decide to type that is spoilerish (mild of course)

Glenn R. said...

@Bill. Great observation, re. the slavery abolition date. However, did Hanso actually say they were going to the U.S.? My recollection was that he only said they were going to the New World, which could be many places, some of which I believe still allowed slavery in 1867.

Glenn R. said...

So, Mike. I like that policy... how 'bout you keep upcoming episodes out of your summaries, but allow it in the comments. Could we make that the official policy in here: That it's okay to talk about the upcoming week's centricity (only?), if we state something like "Episode Centricity Spoiler" at the top?

I think it's important to distinguish between an episode centricity spoiler and a regular spoiler. So, just to say "spoiler" wouldn't communicate enough, imo.

Again, i still haven't heard anyone in here say they don't want that. (If you are out there, show yourself, please!) And all of the regular posters seem to be okay with it.

Anonymous said...

I'm one of those people who doesn't watch the previews for the next weeks episode. but I wouldn't mind if you guys discuss it, just be sure to put something to the effect of "preview spoiler" before it


And since I'm finally deciding to post, I read all of the comments yesterday, and some of the theories you guys had were legit, I think the Jacob/controlling the weather/water and MIB-smokey/Can't get off the island because of the water theory is particularly legit

Cheers + keep up the good blogs on Lost, Mike V. :D

Mike V. said...

Thanks guys! Sounds good to me! I usually skip a
few lines after calling out spoiler so people don't accidentally read ahead and see it.

Crazy 5 years later and this lost community is creating "rules"! Lol Things you don't think of when the blog just grows so gradually! Thanks for
chiming in anonymous and for
the blog props!!

Enjoy the show tonight fellow losties!

Anonymous said...

Hey Mike, just seen last week's episode and can't wait for tonight's.

Couldn't help imagining the final scene being Locke and whoever takes over from Jacob (Jack?) having a conversation on the beach with Locke saying how much he wants to kill Jacob's successor. Maybe not but it would be cool!

Mike V. said...

You share an opinion with many on here anonymous! I still am not a subscriber of that theory but it very well could happen. I still like my "jack's eye closes" final shot of the show to mirror the opening. But then that would mean Jack would most likely die. Something I'm not against but something I may not really want to happen lol

Oh well I'm excited to see what they have in store for us but at the same time I'm being patient because once it happens. It's over! :-(

Anonymous said...

Didn't everyone just love that episode when they made the phones out of coconuts? And the one where it looked like they were going home for sure, but the skinny guy in the red shirt and funny-looking white hat messed everything up again. lol ... good times and coconut cream pies. But that movie star is hot!!!

Kaydee said...

I haven't read all of the comments, but the few that I did read seemed to be concerned over the day turning to night thing. In the very first episode when Charlie, Jack, and Kate are walking through the forest to find the cock-pit, it goes from sunny and clear to dark and stormy. Charlie then says, "Hey, is this normal, this day turning into night end of the world type weather." Just something to chew on.

Mike V. said...

Yup kaydee I've been chewing on that as well. The producers definitely mentioned they're going to cover island storms in the final episodes. I'm looking forward to it!

As forthe gilligan's island comment. No comment lol

Bill said...

@GlennR: TY. I don't think anyone specified the U.S., but how many New World countries had English as a primary language? So, assumption on my part.

Bill

LostFamily said...

Great episode! Finally, Richard's backstory! Terrific job by all. Ya gotta feel for the guy, now feeling like everything he's been doing (for 140 years!) is for nothing. I think the hand that we saw touch Richard was just to make us think it was Jacob at first before showing us MiB. But I enjoy reading how every element of the show is dissected and theorized on. The comments have taken on a life of their own! The blog continues to be fantastic Mike and we're looking forward to our next episode.

Mike V. said...

@Lost Family - Thanks for the blog props as always! I didn't want to overhype this episode for you and I knew you were anxiously awaiting the Richard backstory. You got it! And it was a highly acclaimed episode when it aired. Still is. I encourage you to listen to the audio commentaries from Season 6 once you are finished going through the final episodes. Ab Aeterno was a good commentary as is LAX and Across the Sea (you'll get to that one eventually) They do shed a LITTLE additional light on some stuff that may not be clear by the series' end.

Oh yeah, they definitely wanted us to think that was Jacob's hand for a second. The comments definitely were out of control at this point. Just wait until you see some additional drama with people starting to get annoyed with each other in the comments. Ahhh good times. Makes me almost miss those days :-) You're right around the midpoint of season 6. Are you getting sad yet that the ride is almost over? Enjoy the coming episodes. It's a great ride from here on out...(at least I think so!)

Miles Balzard said...

I'm not sure there's a lot for me to add by commenting on this episode! It was close to a straight, single-character story and provided the backstory and details of Richard, which are essential to understanding him, Jacob and the Man in Black.

It was a nice break in the pace of the sideways stories. The small peeks we got at the survivors are good ones, and of course Hurley was the most important presence in this episode, as the medium for Isabella.

It sure has taken a long time for Sun and Jin to be reunited! I can imagine that a lot of people sort of lost interest in them as a couple by this time, and were annoyed by Sun's whining obsession with her husband. But as a someone who went through a very contentious divorce, I can relate to refusing to let go of something that is such an important part of you, so I'm still invested in Sin and Jun's reunion.

It was nice to see the Black Rock bouncing around the sea and watching it barrel into the statue. I can buy that a storm that crested high enough to have that huge ship crash into the statue's chest would be strong enough to send it into the middle of the jungle before it found it's final resting place.

I presume that over the course of centuries, many ships had been "drawn" to the island by Jacob, so the season 5 finale's ship was not the Black Rock, but just one of many groups Jacob lured in to conduct his sociological experiments.

Nice analogy by Jacob of the cork in the wine bottle representing how the island keeps darkness where it belongs. So it was cool when the MiB shatters the bottle on the rocks at the end of the episode. Trouble is surely brewing! I can't wait to see what happens in the last half of the final season!

Holy cow, what a bunch of comments! Mike, I'm glad you suggested that I might skip reading the comments because I could see spoilers or encounter your "spot on" prediction for the finale. I think, now that I am down to just 8 more episodes, I will just provide my feedback on the episode and the main recap to give you a "pure" assessment of my thoughts.

Mike V. said...

Miles, probably a good idea with the comments. As much as I'd like someone to see my hidden comments about the finale and then see it get validated, I'd much rather someone go into it with no preconceived notions and just enjoy it for what it is! (or hate it lol) The comments are always there to revisit at another time. Though, I can't imagine anyone wanting to go back and read them all after the fact. Sometimes I do to reminisce. Usually when someone is watching for the first time (a la you. lol)

We were all shocked at the length of time they kept Sun and Jin apart. But that never deterred from my investment of hoping they'd reunite. But yes, Sun constantly whining about it may have gotten old, but what else was she supposed to do!? lol

You would be correct in assessing that the ship in season 5 was probably not the black rock.

As for the analogy, I was waiting for you to get to this episode. This was actually a BIG answer for the show. And the writers couldn't actually believe they were putting it in the show. The analogy they used was the exact analogy they used at the writer's table to explain what the island is. So yes....they answered "WHAT IS THE ISLAND?" So, if you follow that analogy further and MIB smashes the bottle....yes trouble may definitely be in store!

BTW...I posted my thoughts on Breaking Bad as well as some choice Tweets I read on the most recent TV Addicts Blog post. Should be safe to read if you wanted to join in on a more present discussion! :-)

Leta said...

If I thought the Ben episode was awesome, what am I going to say this time??? We got a great character story, one we've been promised for so long, and some big answers. It's rare for this show to state things so openly as in this episode, but I suppose with only 9 hours left, there's no time for beating around the bush anymore.

The ship destroying the statue end somehow ending up in the middle of the jungle (tsunami wave? It'd have caused much more destruction) seemed incredibly weak to me. Like the writers were grasping at straws to explain it. But it's not that big a thing, so I suppose I can lay it aside. As to whether the ship we saw earlier floating calmly to the island in broad daylight was „The Black Rock“? I‘m inclined to think it was a different ship in a different time. Jacob said that he‘s brought many people to the island, so it could‘ve been one of these times.

Speaking of which, what about this whole „candidate“ business? Are we supposed to think all the people ending up on the island were candidates at some point? Are the Others what‘s left of the previous „candidates“ who managed no stay alive but at the same time were deemed unsuitable for the job?

Isabella appearing to Richard on the ship is very weird too. You‘re right, Mike, it‘s just not in line with previous MIB incarnations. Especially Smokey appearing while Isabella was still on the ship. I suppose we‘re to assume it was indeed MIB and not look any further into it. But I don‘t like these inconsistencies so close to the ending. They just raise unnecessary questions.

We again see that MIB is very good at manipulating people‘s feelings. He relates to their experiences and exploits their deepest desires, and at the same time seems so sincere that we‘ve been wondering whether everything really is as it seems. Well, here‘s some confirmation that Jacob really is on the „light“side here.

Okay, so if I get it right, the ISLAND is what‘s keeping Smokey at bay, and Jacob is some kind of protector of the island. (Funny how all this time I‘ve been thinking Jacob‘s protecting the island from outside forces. Turns out it‘s the other way around – the world needs protecting from what‘s on the island.) But now that Jacob‘s dead, the „cork“ is still in place, right? That means Smokey still has something to do before he can get away. Destroy the island? Sink it, possibly?

What I love about all this is that suddenly there‘s this great purpose for everything that‘s happened on the island. All the suffering, all the deaths – it hasn‘t been for nothing. Of course, what‘s ironic is that Jacob wouldn‘t even need a replacement if he hadn‘t brought people to the island in the first place! Guess it’s just more proof what a master manipulator MIB is; he was capable of deceiving Jacob himself. Jacob just has this trust in humanity and he cannot abide MIB to be right about people. At the same time he believes in free will and wants people to come by right decisions without him interfering. But this means MIB is free to interfere to his own means, and look for his loophole.

This is some powerful stuff. I like where this show is headed more and more.

Mike V. said...

Hi Leta! Just wanted to let you know that I am reading your comments and plan to respond to them (of course in hindsight there may not be much to comment based on where you'll be lol) wknds are tough to get on a PC and comment. (And typing on my phone I can only tolerate so much! lol)

Glad you're enjoying overall where the show is going. I was on the same page as you and willing to brush off some inconsistencies. The character stories they were able to tell made it worth it. I'll write more later!

Mike V. said...

Yes, this was a great episode...and one we'd been looking forward to for awhile!

Yeah, I think we've accepted it wasn't the black rock we were seeing in that season 5 finale flashback.

As for the statue going down by a tsunami and black rock contact??? Yeah...maybe a stretch, but I'll say probably effects on a TV budget are part of it too. lol

Yeah, I think Jacob has been looking for candidates for awhile. But, he was also trying to prove something to the Man in Black that man is inherently good....so the Island was partially like some test bubble for the 2 of them to debate over for eternity. He'd bring people there, smokey would corrupt.... The Others??? Well, yeah it's just leftovers from the people brought there and became known as the island natives.

Of course, I don't think DHARMA was lured there by Jacob....I think they came out of curiosity for the island's properties and the Others meant to protect the island. But, I'm getting ahead of myself.

Isabella definitely both appeared as a Smokey Incarnation in the past and as a Ghost in the future in the episode. I just had to modify my understanding of who Smokey could take the appearance of. I thought the body had to be on the island because they brought Locke's body back...but that was probably just for people to think he was raised from the dead. Smokey did scan richard's memory so he probably could take the appearance of Isabella because she was dead...regardless of being on the island.

Good questions on The Island and Smokey's motivations. I think I already said too much above, but there might be more than just keeping Smokey at bay with the Island. Stay Tuned!

Glad you're liking where the show is headed!

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