Wednesday, February 04, 2009

LOST: Season 5 Episode 4 - The Little Prince

WOW! Now that's what I'm talking about! Hello Losties, whew, what an episode! Lots of plot movement, a few answers, some more clues to other answers, scenes that aim for the waterworks, non-confusing time traveling, and big payoffs! These are the episodes that tons and tons of setup from previous episodes, even previous seasons can create. Even though there were lots of jumps in time on the Island, the sci-fi was kept to a minimum to just give us an engaging dramatic hour of LOST. Lots to discuss so let's get to it.
First off, the title of the episode The Little Prince got a 4 page diatribe in Jeff "Doc" Jensen's weekly column at ew.com. Bottom line, it's a "French"children's book (or novella actually) about 2 people (or aliens or something) getting stranded in the desert in a damaged aircraft. Really the "French" thing should've been a dead give-away for where this episode was going, but I didn't know until Locke asked us if anyone spoke it! I'm sure there's tons of metaphors and subplots that can be tied to this book with the stories in the episode and with the entire show (for all I know Aaron could be the "Little" Prince!), but I just don't get into that stuff in the recaps, so feel free to read up on it and comment away on your findings!


The story continues to move at a rapid pace as we return to our Oceanic 6 who are getting closer and closer to being in the same place (well the same city at least). Kate is trying to figure out who is after Aaron (turns out one of our primary guesses was correct here!), Jack is still helping Sayid at the Hospital, Hurley is in Jail, and Sun is on a "mission!" And well, Ben is in the mix of it all too. On the Island in the past, the majority of our "left behinders" are together (Rose and Bernard still missing) and Charlotte remains unconscious. This one starts off with a Kate Flashback. Let's dive in:

Off Island Happenings

Flashback

We're back on Penny's Boat "The Searcher" for another discussion that happened on the time between the Island Departure and the branding of the Oceanic 6. It is a discussion between Jack and Kate that takes place before the meeting where Hurley is the last to agree to the "Lie." This gives us insight on how Kate made the decision to raise Aaron.


  • Kate informs Jack that Claire intended to give Aaron up for adoption, which is why she was headed to Los Angeles in the first place.
  • Kate comes up with the story that she could say she was 6 months pregnant on the Island. I just don't know how the police wouldn't have known she was or wasn't pregnant before she got on that plane. At 6 months, you gotta be showing. Can you even fly at that point? Granted, Claire was flying at 8 months so who cares?! It's a TV show!
  • Kate mentions that they lost so many people (Jin, Claire, Sawyer, etc...). Jack ensures Kate that Sawyer is not dead. She agrees but states that he is GONE.
  • Jack tells Kate that he needs her to back him up when he tries to convince everyone to lie. She tells him that she's always been with him. And of course, we saw in Hurley's flashback that Jack did indeed turn to Kate first and she backed him up.

Kate, Aaron & Sun -

3 years later (or the new present day), we continue in Sun's penthouse in Los Angeles. Just a couple plot set up points here to mention, nothing big to analyze.

  • Kate has decided to meet with the Lawyers and try to figure out who their Client is.
  • Sun volunteers to watch Aaron, she gets a delivery. She gets a file complete with photos of Bearded Jack, Ben and a Hearse (Locke? I thought they put him in the Van?). Oh right, and there's a gun in there. Looks like she's out to get her vengeance on Ben.
  • Lots of pictures to look at here and sledgeweb goes into more detail about the papers on if they could have "MORE MEANING." I give up when any details need to be looked into THAT much!

  • Kate meets with Dan Norton (Dad on "My So Called Life" or the lawyer we met in the season premiere). Dan won't give up his client's name. He tells Kate that she's going to lose custody of the boy and that she is in no position for deals.

Jack, Sayid & Ben

This subplot continues where we left off in the hospital with Jack and Sayid. Jack is tending to Sayid who was out cold for "42" hours from the equivalent of 3 horse tranquilizers. Jack is catching up Sayid on what's going on.

  • Jack explains to Sayid that Ben is on their side. Sayid, having prior experience with the man since they left the Island, can confirm that Ben is only on his OWN side.
  • A doctor/nurse interrupts and pulls Jack aside. We find out, as we probably suspected after the season 3 finale, that Jack was suspended from practicing medicine on substance abuse charges.
  • Hurley called Jack from the L.A. County Lock-up and asked how Sayid was doing. He told Jack to tell Sayid that he did exactly what he told him to do (opposite of what Ben says to do). You also gotta love seeing Hurley in the Orange jumpsuit!
  • Speaking of Ben, then he shows up at the hospital (man, talk about not wasting time!)
  • Oh right and then Sayid is attacked while all of this is going on. More tranquilizers involved. Who on earth is attacking them? Since a lot of our assumptions are turning out to be true these days, is it safe to assume that this is Widmore's people? Or perhaps it's Ben's guy too trying to convince Sayid that the only safe place for them is the Island? Naturally, Sayid gets the best of this guy and finds out his next target. 42 Panorama Crest (anyone getting tired of the numbers being dropped everywhere yet? Me either!), Kate's address.
  • Jack calls Kate to tell her to get herself and Aaron out of the house. Since they're already out, he finds out where he can meet them. He also finds out that Sun is in Los Angeles too.
  • Ben decides to go for Hurley. Sayid holds his stance that he won't let Ben near him. Ben convinces him that they need to get his friends out of trouble and "save the dirty linen for later." Something obviously happened when Sayid was working for Ben that we don't know about just yet. Sayid agrees to go with Ben.
  • They decide to rendezvous at the Long Beach Marina Slip "23" (woo hoo numbers!)

Jack & Kate
  • Jack meets Kate downtown. She's happy to see he finally shaved.
  • Kate explains the situation with Aaron and the blood test. She sees Dan Norton driving off and she plans on following him. Jack gets in the car.
  • They follow him to a motel where we see him supposedly going to his "client." We find out that he is talking to Ms. Littleton, Claire's mother! Woaaaa (well, it would've been a shocker if they didn't show her on the "previously on LOST segment") Naturally, they assume she somehow found about about Aaron. Jack decides that their best bet is to explain to Ms. Littleton what happened. And he said his favorite line besides "live together die alone," which is "I can fix this!" This sends Kate to the waterworks because she misses Jack's fixing abilities!
  • Jack goes in to meet Ms. Littleton and while he's coming clean he realizes that she has no idea what he's talking about...so he bolts. Apparently, she was in town because she is suing Oceanic and is there to pick up the settlement. I share in Kate's question, from the same lawyer that is looking into Aaron and Kate's relation? Something is a little shady here. (more in this in a second!)
  • Jack convinces Kate to go to the rendezvous point.

Ben and Sayid
  • Ben asks why Sayid took it upon himself to rescue Hurley. Sayid had to make sure he was safe.
  • They pull into a parking garage, Dan Norton is there! Norton explains to Ben that there is no case against Hurley. The death of the man at Santa Rosa happened before he escaped (yeah but what about the 2 at the safehouse??) There will be a hearing in the morning and then Hurley will be a free man.
  • We find out that Dan Norton is Ben's lawyer. And once again, the majority of us assumed that Ben was behind the lawyers coming to Kate's house. I did throw Widmore out there as a possibility too, but Ben just seemed to fit the bill with his comment to Jack in the season 4 finale "perhaps I can help with that" or something like that.
  • But the wrinkle they added in that we didn't see coming is that this Norton guy is involved with the Oceanic Settlement for Claire's mom too. So that begs the question, does Ben have some role to play with Oceanic too? Does that mean he DID put the fake flight 815 at the bottom of the Ocean? And is he financially backing these settlements too? It made me start to think about Miles's interaction with Ben last season and his demand for 3.2 Million dollars. "you don't think I know who you are?" Hmmmm who exactly is he? I'm sure we're haven't gotten to the bottom of Ben Linus's story quite yet!
  • By the way, Ben's Van "Canton Rainier"? It's an anagram for reincarnation. Hmmm, should we be tying this into anything Locke related?


Oceanic 6 Reunion Minus 1

Jack and Kate arrive to the rendezvous point. Jack explains to Kate that they need to get her and Aaron someplace safe. Ben and Sayid arrive.
  • Jack explains how Ben is with him and how they're going to help all of the people they left behind.
  • Kate realizes that it's Ben that is after Aaron. Ben confirms this and tells Kate that Aaron is not her son. I'm not sure if Ben actually intends to take Aaron from Kate or if he was just using it all as leverage to convince Kate to come with them. I guess it could still be leverage to bring Aaron back to the Island to his actual mother. Which of course, reminds us of the dream Kate had where Claire said "Don't you dare bring him back!" One thing we can't forget though is Ben's obsessiveness (or the Others' obsessiveness) with taking young children and keeping them as their own. Ben took Alex and raised her as his own. They took all of the tail-section children who seemed to be perfectly content living with The Others. (and crazy Cindy who seems to have been part of them all along the way she was acting!) Oh right, and they took Walt. Rogue Ethan stole Claire when he found out the 815ers were on to him, but we found out they had a nursery built at the medical hatch for him. So clearly, Jacob or Ben or Christian had a plan for Aaron. Did they have a plan for Claire too? Is that why she is hanging out in Jacob's shack with Christian these days? And is that why Ben is so determined to convince Kate that she shouldn't be raising Aaron? Even the Ghosts gave Hurley that message to relay to Jack. Seems to be all tied together to me! (like how I rambled on in this bullet until I came to some kind of logical conclusion?)
  • The other exciting thing about the scene though is when Sun pulls up to the same place with Aaron in the backseat and we realize we are one person away from a full reunion of the Oceanic 6 (well and Desmond is on his way too!). With gun in hand, she gets out of the car and heads towards her old friends.

I'm going to guess that no one in this scene is going to get shot next week. Things are shaping up pretty nicely to get everyone back to the Island. There's still some convincing to do with Kate, Sun and Hurley though. And we'll have to see if things continue to go smoothly when Desmond, Penny and child show up too. And of course, there's always the possibility that Ben has ulterior motives!


Island Adventures

Locke's New Plan
Okay, there's a lot more going on here than Locke's new mission, but I thought that was a good way to sum it up. We find out more about Charlotte's "illness" and the dreaded "sickness" in general from our lovely Time Travel Guide, Dan. And Locke decides he knows how to get off of the Island (well John, we could've told you what you came up with last May!) Drama ensues!
  • Charlotte remained unconscious for at least 10 minutes after their last flash and her major nosebleed. People started demanding some answers.
  • Dan decided that Juliet would be the best confidant in this information. He seems a little shaky with the information but he describes it that everyone has an Internal Clock (or sense of time), and the flashes are throwing it off. Kind of like really bad jet lag (really Dan? That's the best you can do???) We get more information later.
  • Sawyer is completely frustrated in this episode which leads to many quality Sawyer lines. The producers stated in one of their various interviews that they thought as long as they had Sawyer going along for this time travel ride, that the masses wouldn't be turned off from the crazy sci-fi. I love the crazy sci-fi, but man Sawyer cracks me up too!
  • Locke explains to Sawyer that they need to return to the Orchid, since that's where all of this craziness started. He explains that Ben was able to leave the Island that way. And he explains his crazy mission to leave the Island and bring back their friends whom Sawyer just assumes are dead. Then of course he mentions he needs to convince them to come back "even if it kills him" almost as a joke, but acknowledging what his mission from Richard is. Man, I wonder if they'll have a Last Supper before he goes on this quest! (get it?)
  • Locke continues to try and convince Sawyer by asking him if he wants Kate to come back. Sawyer, remaining in denial says that it doesn't matter what he wants.
  • Charlotte wakes up and is disoriented at first not even recognizing Dan. Hmmm was her mind somewhere else for a bit? If it was, she didn't lead on to the fact.
  • After Miles makes a lame attempt at a joke (everything is back to normal again! leave the jokes to Sawyer dude), Sawyer storms off towards their beach to grab the zodiac raft and head towards the Orchid. Everyone follows.
  • Night falls, Sawyer asks Locke how he's going to convince Kate to come back since she seemed excited to leave the Island. Locke was still formulating his plan.
  • Hold the phone everyone, that crazy Hatch Light is lit! We know WHEN they are! We have returned to season 1 on the night Boone died. Of course we also know this as the night that Locke lost faith and banged on the Hatch door and the night Desmond planned on killing himself from losing all faith. And of course Desmond and Locke saved each other when Desmond heard the banging he shone the light up at Locke. Locke thought it was a sign. (granted it took us over a year to get all of that information!) Oh right, it's also the night Claire gave birth to Aaron!


  • Locke decides that they shouldn't go towards the light and need to keep moving.
  • Locke later explains to Sawyer when they were. He didn't want to run into himself. When Sawyer asks why he didn't go and tell himself to do things differently, Locke tells him what's done is done and he needed that pain. Here's a question, why didn't Locke explain to Sawyer that Desmond turned that light on? I guess it wasn't relevant to the story? I'm sure they're not going with the Time Travel amnesia angle on that one. I just thought it was kinda weird that he omitted that.
  • Dan continues to console Charlotte, while we notice Miles gets a nosebleed! uh oh.
  • Miles eventually confronts Dan in private about the nosebleeds. We find out a juicy tip that the "sickness" seems to be tied to duration on the Island. Ahhhhh well this would explain Charlotte since we think she was born on the Island. But Miles? Well, we've been tossing around some ideas that Miles has his crazy supernatural sense from his exposure to the Island too. And of course our buddy Pierre Chang (Marvin Candle) had a baby on the Island back in this year's season premiere. It seems safe to assume that Miles is baby Chang! Of course, you have to be careful of your assumptions on LOST!
  • Anyway, before a lot of these conversations took place, we hear the infamous "Claire scream." And Sawyer runs to check it out. He gets to witness Kate delivering Aaron. Very sweet moment. Sawyer realizes how much he misses her. Of course, this ties in nicely with the Oceanic 6 portion of the episode with us getting that infamously cheesy (at the time) line of Kate's "This baby is all of ours." I believe I referred to that line last season when we found out Kate was raising Aaron for the first time. Clearly, they wanted us to hear it again!
  • Here's my question, Jin and Charlie were hiding behind a few trees or bushes when this all happened too, how did Sawyer not run into them? (I know, there's no mystery here and it was probably a casting thing since Dominic isn't on the show anymore but still!)
  • But as Sawyer is enjoying the sweet moment, they Flash again. It's daytime again Sawyer is all choked up. Locke asked who/what he saw and Sawyer continues to be in denial. He asks later acknowledging that they both knew when they were. (see "Locke explains hatch story above")
  • Note: Kate and Claire did not notice the flashes, and while we know they were using footage from season 1, this is probably indicating to us that only the ones doing the time jumping are witnessing the flashes.
  • Our Left Behinders (thank God someone came up with a term to call these people since they're not all 815 Survivors!) arrive at the beach and the camp is there. But they can tell it's been deserted for awhile. (Sorry, Sawyer - the DHARMA beer is all gone!)
  • Sawyer calls out for Rose and Bernard and anyone else that are still around. (at least they acknowledged them!) Locke finds Vincent's leash but no Vincent. Where is everyone? And the Zodiac is gone. hmmmm As they're wondering why their people may have taken the boat somewhere, Miles notices 2 large canoes (Crew Boats? I don't know what they're called!)
  • The boats look old, but there is a bottle of water with a new airline label: Ajira Airlines. Well it's only new if you haven't been following along during the off-season with the teasers from the trailer. We've known about the "created for LOST" website since the fall of 2008. Juliet recognizes the brand and informs everyone that Ajira is an airline based out of India but flies all over the world. Is this how the Oceanic 6 get back? Or is it how someone else gets there? Perhaps Charles Widmore? I have some ideas about this which I'll save for the questions section below.
  • Gotta love Sawyer asking Juliet if the boats belong to "OTHER OTHERS" She is unaware.
  • Locke decides that they need to get moving before these people come back. They all get in one of the boats and start heading towards the Orchid.
  • Miles is complaining about all of the rowing and the couple hours it's going to take.
  • Sawyer confides in Juliet that he saw Kate. They know it was 2 months ago. "Time Travel is a bitch!" Sawyer rocks.
  • The conversation gets interrupted by gun fire. They are being chased in the other boat by these new attackers. As Juliet begins to fire back, they begin to Flash again leading to another great Sawyer line "Thank you Lord!"
  • They flash into a major storm which leads to Sawyer screaming "I take that back!" Ahh good times. Wait, so the boat went with them? I know the zodiac went with them in the first episode. I guess when Juliet says whatever you have with you moves with you includes things that weren't necessarily with them the first time they leaped. I guess that makes sense since Locke had the compass. But can you imagine being in the other boat and then just seeing the people and their boat just vanish? Hmmm I guess that boat leaving that time period doesn't mess up any future events. crazy.
  • They paddle towards the shore and decide to wait until it gets light to move on.
  • Sawyer and Juliet finish their conversation. They have a sweet moment. Sawyer says he close enough to touch her, could've if he wanted to. Juliet asks why didn't he? "What's done is done" (what Locke told him) So is this course correction at work or are they really not trying to interact with their past? For now we'll assume the latter.
  • Sawyer notices that Juliet is now getting the nosebleed too. Uh oh. It's all making sense with the duration thing, but they better get moving!
  • Charlotte notices some wreckage on the beach and that it looks recent. Locke notices a canister with French text on it! The text says "BESIXDOUZE" which is french for B612. Apparently this is the name of an asteroid in "The Little Prince!" Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out WHEN they are and who these people are! wait for it.....

Viva la France
We return to the Ocean where there is a liferaft and about 6 unrecognizeable French people on it. In particular, one woman. They come across a man lying on debris in the water and pull him in. Woaaaa
  • It's JIN!!!!!! He's a live! Well, we already kinda figured that as most of us voted that he never died in the first place on our Season 4 finale poll. But still awesome payoff! He was rescued by french people! (I know I'm keeping the bigger payoff for a few bullets as if we didn't know who they were already) I wonder if we'll see how he escaped the freighter. And has he been floating in the water all of this time? It's hard to keep track of how much time has passed from the Time Traveler's perspective. And I wonder if he was still on the freighter when it blew but the Island wouldn't let him die? Remember Tom asked Michael if the bullet bounced off of his skull or if the gun just jammed when he tried to kill himself? Maybe this means that Jin could've been on the boat when it exploded!

  • Anyway when they get to the beach, we start hearing some names being dropped. Among them Robert and Mantaun! (shown here respectively)
  • Note that we transition from the scene where Sun is about to Kill Ben for Jin's death to Jin being alive and back on the Island.
  • Now, I'm sure not everyone recalls hearing those names way back in season 1. But the woman comes up to Jin and determines he speaks a little English. They start asking how he got here. He explains he was here by Boat. Jin doesn't know how long he's been in the water. He explains the boat sank.
  • The woman takes off her jacket and we see she's pregnant (okay, is there anyone that hasn't figured it out by this point?)
  • Jin introduces himself. And the woman introduces herself as Danielle Rousseau. Woaaaaaaaaaaaaa

BOOM LOST!!!!!

Holy crap! I mean, I know I wrote in the blog before that I'm sure our time travelers would run into Rousseau and her crew in the past and that's how we'd get their backstory but WOW! That was awesome! They rescued Jin! How great is that?! And we met Mantaun! You know, Rousseau explains to Sayid how Mantaun lost his arm. I'm not all about gore and violence all of the time, but we need to see that dude lose his arm! What a great 1-2 punch of a payoff with finding out Jin's alive and that we're in the past when Rousseau arrived, still pregnant with Alex! That's fantastic. I'm super psyched for next week's episode!

Okay, before we close up, I have some analytical thoughts from what we saw in this episode.


Questions:

  • Will the oceanic 6 reappear with Locke's corpse as soon as Island Locke gets OFF of the island? Will spinning the Donkey wheel again move the Island to the point in the future where Ms. Hawking is determing it will be in 70 hours? And does that mean Locke gets sent to the future from his perspective, but in the past from the Oceanic 6's current perspective? How crazy will that be that 3 years would pass for them off of the Island but only a few days would've passed on the Island from the Left Behinder's perspective? What if they bring Aaron and Walt with them and they're super big compared to how old they were before? And will Sun bring Ji Yeon with her? How will she? I think Ji Yeon is still in Korea!
  • I rewatched a video on youtube with the producers from December and there was a question about the runway that the Others were building. The question was about if they expected something to land there or take off. Their answer said that the runway will be prominently featured in season 5. Hmmm...I wonder if the Ajira Airlines plane lands there at some point in the future when it's complete? And I wonder who is on that plane? Could it be our Oceanic 6 plus Ben and anyone else? Well then who on earth was shooting at them? Additional passengers on the plane? What about Charles Widmore? Maybe he returns to the Island via Ajira Airways and his crew are the ones shooting at them?
  • Will people only remain sick while the Oceanic 6 stay away? Why did Rousseau never get sick being on the Island for 16 years? What happened to her crew? We know they got the sickness and Rousseau killed them. But was it tied to traveling via boat to get there like we previously thought? Or did someone from her crew leave the Island that wasn't supposed to which caused them all to get sick? I find it unlikely that someone left the Island. But this all has to tie together somehow. Speaking of which, were Desmond's nosebleeds of similar nature even though he was consciousness time traveling? He had been on the Island for a long duration too. But then how do you explain Minkowski (freighter communications guy) and his nosebleeds and eventual death due to just being in close proximity to the Island via boat? I wonder about all of this because what if Jack and crew return and they all plan to stay there forever. Will they be worried about getting sick or will the Island return to "normal" because they are back? The OTHERS have been there quite some time and don't seem to be affected at all. Lots of random thoughts I know.
  • Oh, and do we think seeing Dan way back in the 70's during the building of the Orchid station is tied to their current mission to get to the Orchid station? I'm guessing that would be an affirmitive!

I think I have lots more questions, but we'll leave it at that for now. Awesome episode, can't wait to watch again. Can't wait to discuss! Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and see you next week! (brush up on your French!) NAMASTE!

Thanks again to lost.cubit.net (AKA Sledgeweb) for always providing fantastic screenshots on your site for me to "BORROW!" My blog wouldn't be nearly as exciting without them!

60 comments:

The Taylorman said...

Ok, great recap butzo, few questions.

When we first met Roussou way back in the first or second season, did she look at Jin funny at all? Like she recognized him? One would assume that he would make some kind of impact on her, being that all her friends died after they picked him up.


Also, it looked like Juilette actually shot somebody in the other other canoe as they were paddeling away. I thought i saw somebody fall to the television right -> after Juilettes second shot. Hope it wasnt hurly...

Also, i would assume that the original Others never got sick (nosebleeds) because they were not allowed to leave the island as we remember Ben saying in season 2 or 3.

Mike V. said...

thanks jeff!

I'm going to guess they'll explain the rousseau/jin thing as rousseau has gone crazy so doesn't really remember him from 16 years ago. Plus....i'm sure our LEAPERS are only there for a short period of time. Maybe she thought she dreamed it! lol

Yeah i meant to mention Juliet shooting someone...good call..what if it IS one of the oceanic 6? that would be kinda crazy.

and another good call on Ben making everyone stay there.

The question also is....if Ajira airways is indeed how they return to the island, did Ben know all of this was going to happen which is why they built the runway? Or maybe Jacob told him to do it? And of course...if Jacob is some version of Locke (dead/alive) from the future....then he would've known that all of this was going to happen and that's why he is able to tell everyone what needs to be done! (multiple theories and assumptions there all in one)

Shanna said...

Norton is also the guy who died in the chemical plant on 24 this week!!!

Great insight into Lost, huh?

Mike V. said...

Yeah he was! And Jack Bauer rocks! If he was on LOST Island, there would be no more issues to worry about. He'd clean up house!

Beatriz said...

Wow lots of connections to make. I do think that baby Chang is Miles, for one he has the nosebleeds and the ability to see "ghosts"

The numbers appear again.The one on Kate's address is 42 and Long Beach Marina 23. The last two numbers of the six numbers.( 4-8-15-16-23-42)Could this order mean something? Also Danielle Rousseau remained on the island for 16 years ( again the numbers)

I know this is crazy but if we look at the numbers this way:
year 2001-42= 1959 (The decade the U.S Military were experimenting on ths island with bombs)
2001-23= 1978 The decade the Dharma Initiave was in place)


Seeing Dan way back in the 70's during the building of the Orchid station I also believe is tied to the current mission.

Anyway,it was awesome All the conncections

cdstedman said...

“were Desmond's nosebleeds of similar nature even though he was consciousness time traveling? He had been on the Island for a long duration too.”

If you go by Dan’s explanation that their nosebleeds are from an internal clock in their head I think their sickness is different that what Desmond and Minkowski went through. Desmond and Minkowski got nosebleeds by leaving the island on the wrong bearing and their consciousness was traveling through time. The only way to save the was to find a constant. Charlotte’s whole body is traveling through time not just her consciousness. And not because of leaving on the wrong bearing but from just jumping through time. I don’t think a constant will save them; the only way I see is for the O6 to return and the island to stop time jumping. And time is running out!! (can you fell the drama)

Mike V. said...

all makes sense stedman. I'm on board with that theory lol

Beatriz, nice catch of the numbers. I think I caught them all in the blog. Except for the math ones...where are you getting 2001 from? The date of the crash was in 2004...and they actually didn't start time traveling until January or February of 2005! (whenever 108 days after they crash is! lol yet another number!)

And I agree our shot of Dan at the orchid during DHARMA days is part of the current mission! Exciting stuff!

And i totally feel the drama!

Beatriz said...

Mike you are right the crash was 2004 I was thinking of when Desmond visited Dan I think it was 2001 right? well lots of confussion

Mike V. said...

Very easy to get confused! Desmond actually came to the Island in 2001 (he had been there 3 years I think he said). He visited Dan at Oxford in 1996. Remember the big conversation with Penny "i won't call for EIGHT Years!"

I'm sure one of these websites is keeping up with the Lost Timeline! I'd like an official one to be released! lol

Mike V. said...

i knew i had seen one of these before:

http://tviv.org/Lost/Timeline

Although, the Oceanic 6 left the Island on day 108...so I'm not sure how they're getting season 4 ends at 100 days! Everything else looks pretty legit.

Anonymous said...

I don't know how I missed it, but this is the first I am hearing about Ajira airlines. I went to their site and printed a boarding pass. I noticed that the symbols on the pass were the same as the symbols shown during the Coundown timer in the hatch when the numbers are not entered on time.

Anonymous said...

Love the Recap!!!

Need help in clearly things up because I am so confused.

First everyone keeps saying you cant change the past. But isnt the fact the they are in the past changing the past. Wouldnt there have to been some point in time when they werent in the past. For instance in last weeks I dont think John could have killed Widmore if he did shot him when he ran off but Widmore did break that guys neck which wouldnt have happened if they wouldnt have been there and even though it didnt change their futures and did change that mans future. But them being in past is actually changing the past cause at some point in time they had to not be there

Second, Have they said that it is in fact Ben that Sun blames or is it Jack. Becuase everything points to Ben which makes complete sense but same with Jack since he was in all the pictures.

And Last (which has more to do with last weeks episode) but does locke really have anything to with the island. does the island really want him. Would richard have ever even gone to him as a child if adult Locke wouldnt have told him to go find him.

Sorry that its mostly questions about last weeks but I didnt get to watch it until last night

MJ said...

Ah - but Norton is really John Winchester - pops to Sam and Dean Winchester from Supernatural!

Gotta tell ya - never watched So Called life - but in every other show that we see the actor Jeffrey Dean Morgan he dies, or is already dead and reappears. 24, Gray's Anatomy, Supernatural.

Just saying ..... LOL

MJ said...

Loved the ep - and the recap as usual !

I have not forgotten the fact that Claire was told SHE had to raise Aaron or else for the future. Yet Claire told Kate NOT to bring Aaron back. Waiting for that payoff from the show. ;-D

Des is not one of the O6, just as Frank isn't. And I seem to recall an
interview with Darlton that said the 'all' in they all have to go back should not be taken soooo literally. But I do believe Des will be back none the less.

If what you have with you moves with you, then how come Locke didn't get all those tents from the American Army? No - that boat thing was just a writers convenience. LOL But I'll go with it.

Think I said this last week, but Claire's mom seems to look alot like Theresa. Claire, Claire's mom, Theresa, Charlotte and Juliette all seem to have a very similarly shaped face - by no coincidence I am sure.

Can't remember what year DI came to the island - but could it have been them shooting last night, thinking they were shooting at the 'hostiles' ??

I'll be interested to see what the people NOT leaping think about persons they are perhaps having conversations with just disappearing from right in front of
them.

Weasel said...

The boats/canoes that they were using... weren't they also featured in a couple other episodes? Remember when they left the other island just of the coast of THE island? Was that not the same boat?! ...the same boat that Charlie and Dez take out to go to the Looking Glass? Maybe when they take the boat back in time it stays there and the OTHERS use it?

cdstedman said...

Course correcting has been established as a way of fixing these little time paradoxes. To quote Mrs. Halking talking about the man with red shoes.

“Had I warned him about the scaffolding, tomorrow he'd be hit by a taxi. Had I warned him about the taxi, he'd fall in the shower and break his neck. The universe, unfortunately, has a way of course-correcting. That man was supposed to die; that was his path. Just as it's your path to go to the island. You don't do it because you choose to, Desmond. You do it because you're supposed to”

The guy whose neck was broken by Widmore was always supposed to die there. Before Locke showed up he might have fallen in the creek and drowned or bitten by a poisonous snake but he was supposed to die.

Take the scene where Locke and crew steal the boat, base on the Ajira water bottle that was in their future. I guarantee that in a future episode there will be a scene where a group walks out of the jungle and says “hey our boats gone. There it is someone’s swiping it lets get them.” (Top notch dialog right) And wouldn’t it be cool if it ended up Locke and Sawyer chasing and shooting at themselves.

Mike V. said...

Whew...okay...first up (i see stedman wrote something but i already had this written!)

Anonymous:

I guess that's where time travel gets confusing...if our LEFT BEHINDERS are in the past right now...one way to look at it is that they've ALWAYS been there. But yeah...with Dan talking to Desmond and then Desmond suddenly having a memory.....and Desmond going back in time to talk to Dan in 1996...and Dan not remembering it...it would seem that they are traveling to the past and CHANGING history but not changing the future outcome. So maybe Charles's soldier buddy was going to die anyway??? I dunno....it's so confusing I try not to overthink it! lol

No we do not know if sun blames Ben. But I'm going off the assumption that when Locke gets off of the Island...he visits sun and explains to her who caused the freighter to blow up. That is...of course...unless Locke and Jin run into each other next week....then all bets are off because there's no way Locke would not have told Sun that Jin isn't alive....hold the phone! Locke visited Kate, Jack and Ben! So maybe Sun is going to find out next week that Jin is alive! But yeah...i guess at this point she could be blaming Jack or Ben. Jack is the one that pulled Kate away...is forcing them all to lie. But Sun told Kate that if Kate didn't come back to the helicopter they all would've died....so then it would seem like she wouldn't blame Jack either! But it's a good question...it still could go either way i guess. but SOMEONE has to know that Jin is still alive!

As for who was shooting at the Left Behinders.....it has to be someone in the future! So it can't be the Dharma initiative from the PAST! If they're reestablishing themselves on the island in the future...then maybe it could be them. But it's definitely at a point in time AFTER the O6 have left the island.

WHEW....did i get it all? most? lol

Mike V. said...

whoops...i had this typed up too and forgot to paste:

MJ - Norton is SOOOOO not Jeffrey Dean Morgan! I guess they kinda look the same though. lol

Yeah...I know Des isn't one of the O6....that youtube clip i referred to in the blog i think is the interview you're talking about. They said they left it ambiguous intentionally. I think we're missing a detail or 2 on the significance of WHO goes back and HOW many and does it matter exactly WHO in order to answer that question fully! But yeah...I guess the assumption has always been that at least the Oceanic 6 have to go back...and Ben reaffirms that with his talk with Jack in the season premiere on who they're going after.

As for the tent...was locke touching the tent when he flashed? It's probably anything that they have on them...or are IN....so they're sitting in the boat...the boat goes with them. But yea...definitely a convenience for the writers! lol (weasel...i agree they look very similar to the OTHERS Boat....that one was like 2 boats connected though right? these boats look slightly different and Juliet didn't recognize it either...so i dunno!)

Don't forget Sarah supposedly looks like Juliet too according to Ben...and Juliet supposedly looks like like "HER" (annie??) according to Mrs. Goodwynn!

Charles said...

JUST SOME THOUGHTS OF MINES =)
I think Rousseay never got sick because to my knowledge none of the Mothers who successfully gave birth on the island became sick. They seem somehow immune to it. I could be wrong though.
The time travel thing is really interesting considering no one has truly interacted in any way to alter anything in the future but Miles when he talked to Desmond. I’m just curious to know why “the Others” being there for such a longer time than the people of the Oceanic flight and the Whittier bunch seem unaware of the time jumping. Seems like that would be well aware of it than anyone considering they have been on the island the longest? Ever check out Einstein's theory of time travel… it’s quite amazing but simple in a way; given you really change nothing about your position of matter you simply change the matter around you – actually bending time and space. Also remember how the light blurred the island when they first ceased to reset the clock in the hidden vault? I’m wondering was that an actually time jump as well giving the blurring light effect and we just missed it? Prior to the island being moved – Desmond was the only one who seemed aware of the time jumping as far as him seeing into the future. I think Claire, Claire’s baby (Aaron), Hurley, Locke and Desmond are key figures in the whole cycle and upcoming conclusion of the story. Desmond obviously stands out as a key figure since he is the only one who seems to have extra insight and revelation as far as time travel and the island well as pre-inquisitions.
Also notice how on the episode before last "the Others" knew Latin (A very old language and precursor our current speech. Makes me think that the “Others” have truly been there for a VERY long time since all of them speak Latin as a native tongue.
Also notice how there has been no ‘black smoke’ since the island got moved? Hmmmm…
What happened to Micheal and his son Walt?
The blogger was real keen at noticing number dropping such as Kate’s address and the lettering on the van having a double meaning of "reincarnation" Very observant =) I think the numbers may be a combination of the main characters birthdays and/or maybe a code to the time travel to either stop it or make it go haywire into oblivion?
Wasn’t it funny how Jack said that" Aaron was his family too"?… LOL.. The irony being that Aaron TRULY is his nephew. HA!
Could Aaron actually be the savior of them all?
Isn’t the casting just perfect in this show??? I couldn’t see anyone else acting in the role characters that were cast for the show other than the ones who are playing them =)
Of course I think it would be ill if the last episode was Hurley being back in a mental institution and the entire story being in his head… LOL… I don’t think that likely… just a thought though.d

Brendan said...

im sure they will get into it in more detail this season on whether or not they can change the future, bc like u said, we dont kno if charles widmores buddy wuld hav died anyway if he didnt run into the left behinders, and locke didnt want to go to the hatch and tell future locke about wuts happening, but for all we knew that still wuldnt hav changed the future, this could somehow tie into how people appearing throughout the show's history like jacks dad, could they be goin thru flashes in some way also?

Mike V. said...

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=podcast#t=3421

Looks like the producers finally took time to do a full podcast this season. I'm gonna check it out later but wanted to share!

Anonymous said...

The "crew boats" are called Outriggers.

Soda said...

Re: Sun after Ben or Jack?

Maybe I'm not doing all the mental gymnastics in my head correctly (highly probably with Lost), but why would Sun be choosing this time to go after Jack? Unless I'm forgetting something, I don't think she's learned anything since their rescue to make her blame Jack for Jin's (supposed) death any more than she used to. If she blamed Jack, she most likely would have tried to kill him at some point in the intervening three years.

It seems way too coincidental that she'd get a gun, travel to LA, and get ready to shoot someone, when Ben Linus is known to be in town, for her not to be after Ben Linus. If it were Jack, she'd have done it by now. Am I missing something?

Julie said...

So I think the bad blood between Sayid and Ben is the fact the Ben put Penny on his list of ppl to assassinate. And what if what we are actually witnessing with the Left Behinders is actually there conscience traveling through time and not actually them.

Ian said...

I thought it was clear that Sun was after Ben. Didn't she tell Widmore that they had "common interests," namely to kill Benjamin Linus?

Mike V. said...

You guys said everything I was going to say after thinking about it a little more. Yep, Sun definitely went to Widmore and told him she's after Ben Linus (their common interest) I guess the only thing we don't know for sure is the 2nd person that she blames for Jin's "death." We just assumed it was her father Mr. Paik. But then why was there all of this suspensful drama when she was talking to Kate about when the whole thing went down? And then a sigh of relief when Sun said "i don't blame you for Jin's death..." and then things got a little weird again when she asked "How's Jack?" It would seem the question should be answerd of the 2 people she blames but then they are doing a good job of still leaving it ambiguous. So who knows? It's probably just LOST being LOST. I agree, Sun would've taken care of Jack by now if she blamed him. But based on the previews for next week, looks like Ben already had a plan for this situation! We'll see if Sun buys it.

Julie, interesting idea with Penny being on the hit list. I'm guessing one of these episodes we're going to get the Sayid flashback that explains what's going on here. It could be the Penny thing, or it could just be that Ben used Sayid's grief to turn him into a killing machine. Sayid might find out that Nadia was not murdered and maybe Ben told a little fib. Then again, Widmore's spy (and Nadia's supposed murderer) WAS in Iraq watching Sayid, so who knows?

Thanks anonymous for Outriggers!

MJ said...

Mike - thanks for the correction on the Norton actor - my bad !

Heard/read that the Theresa character will not become a main character.

I agree with Charles that at a minimum Claire and Aaron are key to the whole end-game, as well as other cast members.

Anonymous said...

Iam a bit lost about the runway. I don't remember that Ben and his people built it Pleaes refresh my memory help

AreUPokey said...

A couple of things..
First, Hurley will not necessarily be a free man. Remember that he was put in the mental institution by the police after the car chase, so we'd have to assume that he gets sent back there, or maybe even a different, more secure place.

Second, perhaps Sun actually will try to shoot Ben, or Jack for that matter, but because the island is not done with them they won't die, just like Michael. This might be the very thing that convinces Kate and Sun to go back to the island.

We could get a tense moment where Sun is deciding what to do, seems to start backing down, then quickly steps up and fires at Ben's head, only to see the bullet bounce off his skull. I think they would all start listening to Ben a lot quicker if they saw something like that happen.

Mike V. said...

Okay, the runway thing. Remember the low point of LOST? The first 6 episodes of season 3 which we've all blocked out of our memories? Sawyer and Kate were in cages, Jack was whining in a Shark tank, etc... Well, Sawyer and Kate were also being forced to break rocks up and stuff. By the finale of season 3, Sawyer asked Juliet what they were working on. She said they were building a runway...and then jokingly said "for the aliens." That's really the last we heard of it. But the producers said it will be featured prominently in season 5.

Pokey...I know Hurley went to the institution after his run-in with the police....but he did VOLUNTEER to be put in the institution. I think i remember at some point that we found out he could leave whenever he wanted. But I may have made that up!

Interesting with the "sun shoots ben" idea....I think it's going to be much simpler though...Ben said in the preview he can prove that Jin is still alive...if the proof looks good...Sun is going to be on board. The big question is..how will she get Ji Yeon? (or will she even want to?)

Kate, I'm not sure how they'll convince her, but maybe the guilt of knowing they can bring Aaron back to Claire will start eating at her (Ben planted the seed). Of course, there still is that crazy dream where she told Kate not to bring him back!

I love this crazy show!

Mike V. said...

Great LOST cover story in the new entertainment weekly issue! I'm psyched for the remainder of the show!

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,1550612_20245769_20257373,00.html

Mike V. said...

whoops..try this:



LOST EW Cover Story

Anonymous said...

Re: Dan working working on the Orchid station. Come ep 10 we'll see alot more than Dan hanging out with the Darma crew.
This was shown before they started the current season run on Sky one here in the uk. Be warned, it does contain spoilers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YI8pJJF9VM

Mike V. said...

Thanks for the link! I'm going to try to stay spoiler free and avoid the link. But if anyone wants more teases there is an interesting dharma related picture in the latest issue of entertainment weekly. I'm pretty psyched!

hannah said...

great ep this week and blog.
watched that sky show on tv a couple weeks ago and really wished i had'nt. hope the flashes show us more about how the black rock got there!

Mike V. said...

Quiet day out there! Hey Hannah, I think I read something in that EW feature that the "Black Rock" explanation is part of the "END GAME" for LOST. So we probably won't be getting fully into that story until next season. I'm just excited that 4 toed statue explanation is coming! But we gotta assume that the way the Black Rock ended up in the middle of the island by the island moving and suddenly appearing right under it, right? Based on what we know right now, that would seem to be the case! Of course, then is also the DHARMA Polar Bear that ended up in Tunisia, which the only explanation to that I can think of is by turning that crazy donkey wheel! (man, I can never stay on topic!)

Speaking of changing topics, I can't stop thinking about the crazy Locke limping in the jungle near the Nigerian Plane. Yep, yours truly (self-proclaimed LOST nerd), went back and checked out my season 1 DVD and the "Deus Ex Machina" episode. (the official LOST recap just wasn't enough for me!) I wanted to check Locke's leg and see which one he was limping on. Okay...so here's what i see. In Season 5 premiere, Locke gets shit in the Right leg. In season 1 episode, locke gets stabbed in right leg by the trebechet (or however you spell it). The thing is...in that same episode, he seemed to have lost all feeling in BOTH of his legs (a sign that the paralysis was returning). He stabbed himself, put a burning stick against his foot and .....nothing. No feeling whatsoever. Locke begins to worry that his paralysis is returning. And when Boone questions why he's limping off of a different leg, he comes clean to Boone about these concerns also. BOTTOM Line. I don't think Ethan shooting Locke was meant to be THE ANSWER to why Locke lost all feeling in both of his legs in that season 1 episode. I wonder if it's tied more to losing faith in the island and people getting sick (like Jack with the appendix, Ben with the tumor). There has to be an ultimate answer to why all of that was happening right? Maybe Locke's experience fits into that scenario too. Maybe this is something the producers will address in one of their weekly podcasts. (of course, I'm probably the only one that is still harping on it!!!)

Well there's a little noise for everyone's quiet monday! lol

Anonymous said...

Questions...

How come Walt doesn't need to go back to the Island? How come they weren't time traveling when he left? If the Oceanic 6 have to go back to make things better, shouldn't Walt have to as well? Or has his character been written off?

Man Cheuk said...

What has happened to Michael? Since he can not die, does he travel in time while floating in the ocean like Jin?

I am curious because he is the only one from flight 815 that has left the island and come back.

Mike V. said...

Walt and Michael were told to take a very specific bearing to get off of the island. Doing this prevented any possible "time related side effects" We don't know for sure that Walt doesn't go back to the Island with them or eventually. We saw Walt in the Season 4 finale talking to Hurley. Walt told Hurley that "Jeremy Bentham" aka Locke came to talk to Walt. I'm guessing this means we might see Walt in the 7th episode of the season "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham." I don't think it was a matter of writing Walt OFF of the show. It was a matter of addressing his age which they assured us in season 1 that they had a plan to do this. It would seem like the way they did this is that they waited until we saw him years later off of the Island. Only issue with this idea is that we did see "Taller Ghost Walt" on the Island helping Locke out when he was in the DHARMA Grave. I don't think Walt's story is over yet at all. And I'm sure he will factor into this season in some way. We just don't know how yet.

As for Michael...that dude is DEAD. We were told that Michael couldn't die because the Island would not let him and that he still had work to do. (this probably has something to do with the RULES and Time Travel and the Island) Anyway, when Christian Shephard visited Michael on the freighter he told Michael that he can "go now." I believe that was the Island telling Michael that he has fulfilled his "WORK obligations" Michael may return as a Ghost on the show...because I'm sure there needs to be closure with Walt. But I'm pretty sure he's a goner.

Considering Harold Perrineau was giving interviews after the season finale about his character's DEMISE and Daniel Dae Kim was NOT...I think that's your answer right there of who survived and who didn't! lol

Anonymous said...

Rambling thoughts....

For all we talk about whether or not there's a master plan at work on "Lost," we have to keep in mind that a TV show, unlike a novel, or even a series of novels, is a living, breathing organism, one that changes and grows in ways that even its creators couldn't anticipate. Characters and events that seemed so important in the early days have turned out not to be for all sorts of reasons: an actor who didn't want to live in Hawaii anymore (Mr. Eko), a kid who was growing too fast for the show's timeline (Walt and his psychic powers), a bit of island geography that the network deemed too weird to revisit for a while (the four-toed foot). By the same token, a plot device that was cooked up on a whim to fix a specific episode (they needed an excuse for Sayid and Desmond to not immediately demand answers upon arriving on the freighter) might inadvertently lead to one of the series' greatest episodes ("The Constant") and its most beloved couple (Desmond/Penny, who were liked before but not adored by fandom the way they are now).

Stuff happens. The story moves in ways we don't expect, in ways the characters don't expect, in ways the writers don't expect. The heavenly light bursting from the hatch turned out to be Desmond simply turning on the lights in The Swan to see what the racket was about. Shannon, while welcome comic relief in the early goings, turned out not to be necessary as the series moved forward. Michael Emerson, who might have only been around for two or three episodes, made himself indispensable when he asked if his captors had any milk.

It's telling that the most beloved episode of last season revolved around Desmond, who wasn't even a regular character until the third season, and that the most popular episode so far this season (albeit from a tiny sample size) was last week's "Jughead," which focused largely on Desmond and the even newer Dan Faraday, and which didn't devote a second of screen time to Jack, Kate, Hurley or the rest of the Oceanic Six. For the most part, Lindelof and Cuse have been good judges of which characters to hang onto and which to sacrifice to the island gods, which stories still fit into the grand scheme and which can probably be done without at this late date.

All of which is an overly long preamble to me saying that an episode like "The Little Prince," which is so much about Kate, and about whatever dysfunctional, on-again/off-again relationship Kate and Jack have had over the years, feels like a relic of an era the show has long since evolved past. Because it was intercut with so much happening back on the island, and with the activities of other members of the Oceanic Six (plus Ben), it wasn't as bothersome as last year's Kate spotlight, "Eggtown" -- or, even worse, the polar bear cage episodes at the start of season three, which were all-Kate, all the time. It was still an entertaining episode, with lots of interesting clues about the island's time travel problem, another vintage Sayid action set piece, some more fine acting from Josh Holloway and, oh yeah, the return from death by Jin. But it was also a reminder that, of the lucky bunch of remaining survivors of Oceanic 815, Kate is by far the least compelling, particularly when paired with Jack instead of Sawyer.

Sawyer's aching love for her back on the island made her seem more fascinating than she actually is, but, of course, those scenes either didn't feature Kate at all or briefly featured archival footage from season one. But Evangeline Lily and Holloway have always shared a chemistry that she sorely lacks with Matthew Fox.

In fact, the Kate/Jack portions of the episode were so lackluster -- albeit necessary, in that the writers need to convincingly explain why Kate might be willing to take her adopted son back to that terrible island -- that I'm not going to bother saying anything else about them.

Instead, let's just focus on the island action, starting with the question nobody seems to be asking: why is Locke so convinced that the island's problems are being caused by the absence of the Oceanic Six, as opposed to the simple act of Ben turning the frozen donkey wheel? Now, I know he's convinced because Richard told him this was the case, but as I recall, Richard told him that because Locke told it to him at some other point. So the idea apparently came from Locke himself at some point, and while it fits his island zealotry -- he's gone to great, often explosive, lengths in the past to keep anyone from leaving -- it ignores the fact that other people have, in fact, left (Walt and Michael, to name two) without this kind of calamity. To me, the new element seems to be the donkey wheel, which suggests the drive to get the Six back to the island may not fix much of anything. Again, I believe that Locke would believe this; I just think he's wrong.

Meanwhile, the latest travels by Locke and Sawyer's unhappy, nosebleeding band introduce some potential new players to the board in whoever arrived on the beach in those wooden longboats with the Ajira Airways water bottles. (As with all fake companies on "Lost," there's already an official Ajira Airways website, which you can explore to your heart's content. As I prefer to stick to what's actually in the show -- which Cuse and Lindelof promise is all we really need to understand it -- I'll pass, but go party there if that's your thing.) We know they're relatively contemporary, based on the water bottles, and we know they have guns, but who could these "other Others" be? The Oceanic Six, having returned to the island and mistaking Sawyer's boat for the bad guys? Richard Alpert's people, back from a snorkeling trip? More of Widmore's mercs? Could we possibly be introduced to yet another faction at this late date?

(By the way, while I've mostly shrugged off the nitpicking of the show's time-travel rules this season, I was surprisingly bothered that the stolen boat was still there after the time jump. I know the Zodiac came with Dan and his group after the initial flash at the end of last season, but I'd like Juliet or someone to ask Dan to explain how all of this works. Either way, Sawyer finally being grateful for a time-jump, and then immediately taking it back when they arrived in a downpour, was hilarious.)

The episode also reintroduces an old faction, albeit one where we've only seen one member before, as Jin is saved from floating on a piece of freighter debris (ala Rose from "Titanic") by a much younger, still pregnant version of Rousseau and her science team, which would put the episode's final scenes around 1988.

I also thought it was a nice touch that Jin once again washes up with a strange group of castaways, and that, after going to the trouble to learn English, he finds himself in a group who mostly don't speak it. While we all knew Daniel Dae Kim was still a regular, there was always the chance that Jin would only be alive in the show's past, so it's nice to have the possibility of a Jin/Sun reunion still out there.

Speaking of people whose demises were greatly exaggerated -- in this case, by me -- Charlotte turns out to be very much alive (whoops), and Daniel's explanation for why she and Miles were affected first is interesting. It was set up at the end of last year that Charlotte was probably born on the island, but could Miles have spent time here, too? Was the speculation from the premiere about him being the son of Dr. Chang more on the mark than we realized? Given that Juliet -- on the island for several years before Locke and Sawyer came along -- is stricken next, it's not an unreasonable assumption to say that Dan's theory is right, which would put Miles behind only Charlotte for duration of time on the island.

Lots and lots to chew over, even with so much time devoted to Kate angst and Jack once again promising to fix things.

Some other thoughts:

• Rebecca Mader's eyes were a particularly disorienting shade of blue in this one, which suited her character's state of mind.

• I'm sure it must be a tremendous hassle to film scenes out in the Pacific, but on the rare occasions when production goes to the trouble, they always look incredible, don't they?

• Sayid's battle in the hospital was brief but effective as always in triggering my "Hell, yeah!" reflex.

• For a minute there, before Kate explained the custody problem to Jack, I was all prepared to go on a rant about how, even on the mainland, the characters still can't be bothered to share useful information with each other. Crisis averted.

• So, should we assume that Bernard and Rose have taken Vincent for a long walk? And will they come across Cindy and the kids in their travels?

• Again, given that Emerson kind of got the permanent job on the basis of "You guys got any milk?," do you think the writers deliberately give Ben the most mundane-sounding dialogue -- in this case, "That's my lawyer" -- because they know how funny he'll make it sound?

What did everybody else think?

Mike V. said...

Wow, that's some well-thought out ramblings! lol I'm sure this isn't the only blog you've put them on either! (it's cool...I'm a big fan of the ol' copy/paste!)

Anyway, just wanted to address a few things. While I agree with you that a TV Show adjusts to what works and what doesn't, I have heard comments from the producers that differ slightly from what you said:

1.) Michael Emerson was hired because they loved his work on the Practice. They were "HOPING" that he'd work out and become the "LEADER OF THE OTHERS" but only initially hired him for a 3 episode stint. If things didn't work out, he would've been the one that ended up killing Ana Lucia (and probably Libby too) instead of Michael. And then they would've recruited someone else to be the HEAD OTHER for the season 2 finale. So, while they didn't necessarily know if Emerson would work out, they still had a rough plan for the show and stuck to it.

2.) You might be right about Eko (Adewale). What I had read was that he signed up to be on the show for 1.5 seasons. He didn't want to be on the show forever right up front and the producers knew that. However, season 3 was the crazy season when they experimented with the 6 episode POD in the fall, which coincided with Adewale's request for 1.5 "YEARS" in Hawaii. So they had to rush his story a bit to make sure they kept to his contract. And they wished they could've handled it differently.

I agree that Shannon wasn't probably always meant to be killed in season 2 but her character had run its course.

While I agree that they definitely delayed Sayid and Desmond immediately asking what was going on on the freighter....I believe they wanted to continue to explore Desmond's "time travel" tendencies. We know that he was seeing the future in season 3, we know he traveled back and relived the past. They wanted to show another piece of that. Sure...maybe they hadn't figured it all out back in season 2 or 3...but they knew that they were going to have to explain what is going on with Desmond (and they kinda still have to! lol) LOST loves delaying explanations when it seems so plausible to do so in regular conversation (you mention this)....I think the most blatant of these is with Daniel Faraday last season (and some of this)....he'd always make comments like "Time....that's a relative term" and then Jack would say "What do you mean?" and Charlotte would say "Dan stop!!" and then the camera would cut to another scene. lol That is just rough! But, that's just what they do!

There are definitely many that consider KATE (evangeline) the weakest link of the show. She doesn't bother me too much, but I know she's not the best actress or anything. There's still enough romantic tension between her, jack and sawyer to keep me intrigued.

Most of the other recap stuff, I covered in the blog, so I will just say, nice summary!

Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts!

MJ said...

Checked out the new article link you posted Mike. And once again - they hint that not everyone will be returning to the island. At least not right away anyway.

Anonymous said...

I think the problem with the Mainland story line has less to do with it being Kate-centric and more to do with the assumed inevitability of the Six returning to the Island. Knowing they WILL make it back, all the tension and drama are deflated from watching the step-by-step process they take getting from here to there. It feels like they are finding artificial delays in order to juice up the storyline and extend it for a while - a technique that Lost has practically built itself upon - but in this case the audience can clearly guess where the storyline will lead.
Therefore, we can worry much less about custody battles and Sayid-hating assassins and even Sun's seemingly duplicitous leanings since we have a strong feeling that they will inevitably make up and get their asses back to the Island, with no one dying before then.

I don't think any of the Mainland characters, including Ben, could hold our interests there because the mechanizations of Mainland life are so mundane (lawyers, driving around in cars and vans, and cell phone conversations) compared to the action of the Island (time jumping, stealing boats from unknown crashees, and not knowing who or what is around the next jump). So Kate gets a pass from me, as I think Hurley's focus a few episodes back felt just as time wasting as Kate's did now.

I also think this feeling of inevitability is what makes time travel stories in general very anti-climatic. If we can't change the past in order to shape the future, why struggle with anything? The Six will return to the Island and save it no matter what happens on screen, because that is their fate. If the Sawyer/Locke/Juliet crew are instrumental to saving the Island, then they will survive all attempts to kill them with flaming arrows or shots from the chasing boat because that is their fate, and nothing in their (relative) past will change the future of them restoring order to the Island.

It's like Michael trying to kill himself by crashing his car into the wall. He couldn't do it, because he was fated (is that a word?...LOL) to save Jin and Desmond. Instead of watching a drama, we are watching a puppet show lacking free will. If we can determine who exactly is instrumental towards saving the Island, we can treat them as immortal like Michael in his car. Ben, Jack, Locke seem to be in this group, but who else? I don't think it will be everyone. I think another surprise death or two will happen (Sawyer seems a good candidate).

On a trashy note, young Russo and young Eloise are hotties. I don't remember many English speaking military groups having female members serving at that time, but if it gets young Ellie in the story, I'll overlook. Even though it WAS patently ridiculous that Richard would send her alone with Daniel to disarm the bomb, as she looked like she was a very weak kid who could barely hold a rifle upright, and no match for even the geeky Daniel to overpower.

There seems to be a common argument against skeptics of the show, and it is a poor one. Most of the complaints from skeptics like myself have nothing to do with 'organic storytelling' or 'cast availability' but extremely poor plotting that the showrunners had and have complete control over. I'll buy the Eko and Libby storylines being affected by the actors' career choices. I'm much less inclined to buy that Emerson was made Leader of the Others because of how he said a milk line, and that Ben Other was always going to be the pivot point of the show.

But "organic storytelling" doesn't explain highly emphasized plot points that were purposefully injected into the story without a purpose other than to titillate, i.e The Numbers. The need to enter the Numbers into a computer when it could have been automated (save for the manual labor) made great television. The hieroglyphics in the countdown clock. The kidnappings/ baby emphasis. The virus. Why did the Others disguised themselves and marched around daily as primitives when they controlled the Island with modern technology and knew how hard it was to get to the Island? Why did the Others build a whole fake primitive village? Why was the smoke monster so terrifying at first that the Losties wouldn't venture into the jungle, but when it became a plot burden, the Losties ignored the terrifying-ness of the Monster and started to trek the jungle alone at night all the time without concern? Just story-telling madness to me.

Even the Polar Bears. Making the Donkey wheel be in a freezing environment in order to "explain" the Polar Bears is some of the worst, post-facto plotting I've ever seen. The Others really thought it was easier to train a polar bear to leave it's cage, be lead to the Orchid station, go down that elevator (Ben and Locke and Keamy had a long ride down a very cramped shaft), go down to the room, wait for someone to load that room with metal to blow a hole to access the Donkey Wheel, get the polar bear to go down a narrow ladder that Ben could barely fit through, and then turn the wheel as trained? Nonsense!

I suggested a more docile donkey, which someone pointed out would be tough to go down a ladder. How about a chimpanzee? They are much more easily trained, stronger than humans, can live in the Orchid hatch with his trainer, and very comfortable in warm Island climates. They probably have a better chance of surviving in Tunisia as well.

Notice I didn't even bring up the absurdity of a magic wheel that needs to be turned that happens to be surrounded in a freezing cold climate. I'm GIVING them that, as absurd as a Post-facto device that is to explain the need for Polar Bears in a Jungle. Even then, the plotting and explanation is so shamefully inadequate as to be nothing short of insulting.

These elements have nothing to do with actor availability or organic story telling, and were in complete control of Lindelof and Cuse.

It also has to do with smugness and guarantees. One of the best shows on television - Battlestar Galactica - has used organic storytelling and has been open about it (New Caprica arc, Lee leaving CAG to be a Quorum member, the final 5, etc.). I have nothing but the highest respect and admiration and love for that show, even when I didn't think the arc was very good (New Caprica).

The difference is that BSG is honest about their approach and don't introduce a shocking element until they know what it means (Final 5 for instance). Lost introduces major shocking things they have no idea how to explain, and then do interviews guaranteeing that they have an explanation. They either don't bother (Dharma's continuing food drops, why the Purge didn't include Desmond when all you had to do was knock hard on the hatch's back door like Daniel did to get him to come out) or give such a ludicrous one (the need for Polar Bears) that many objective observers can rightfully conclude was made up post-facto.

I realize that Lost is much like religion. Those that want to believe will believe, and evidence means nothing compared to faith. Unintended signs will be seen that proves the path always existed because the human brain is wired to see patterns and make logical interpretations. Perhaps my criticism against Lost is related to my feeling about religion and by faith of skeptical analysis. Maybe. I really think it has more to do with being strongly against false storytelling and the long term damage Lost will inflect by promising the world and delivering garbage.

But then again, I just absolutely CAN NOT turn away from watching this show! How unreal is THAT?

Anonymous said...

The polar bears were there only to turn the "frozen donkey wheel"?
Has that been confirmed? "

I don't think this would make sense. The polar bears were Dharma. The donkey wheel predates Dharma; in fact, given the lengths Ben had to go to get at it, Dharma seemingly wanted nothing to do with it. Clearly they used bears in their experiments; that's how one ended up in ancient Tunisia. But it's more likely that it time-travelled in the booth, just like the bunnies.

cdstedman said...

No it hasn’t been confirmed. Why are there still questions about why the polar bears are on the island? Rewatch the Swan film; they go out of their way to show that polar bears were used in their zoology experiments.

Mike V. said...

Man, I guess I asked for this yesterday when I said it was getting too quiet! lol

Look what we got today, out first LOST Hater (but at the same time..still addicted! lol)! Good stuff. Some good points made. Some a little too early to make.

Agreed that the polar bear turning the donkey wheel seems to be a bit unrealistic. And also agree with stedman that we did already get an explanation (kinda) to what the bears are doing on the island. (I'd still like to know WHY they were experimenting!) And I'd also like to know why a DHARMA Polar Bear's ancient fossils ended up in Tunisia, the same place that Ben showed up (in the future) after spinning the crazy wheel.

As for Desmond with the Purge....I'd like to know more about Kelvin and why he wasn't part of the purge. (and also why Kelvin didn't answer the door when Daniel knocked because Desmond never went outside until the day the 815ers got there)

btw...to that post and the long post from yesterday....DHARMA Food Drops and 4 Toed Statue are on the agenda to be explained THIS season. So stay tuned.

haven't seen BSG yet, but am planning to watch at some point. I'm sure it's awesome.

I think some of the complaints about throwing stuff out there without any plan for an explanation is too premature. I'd expect analysis like this coming after the "SERIES" Finale when we've finally gotten all of the answers that they plan to deliver us in the show.

For now, I'm still enjoying the ride and am still intrigued by the mysteries out there.

And, if we're calling what LOST is delivering..."Garbage"? Then call me Oscar the Grouch and feed me some more!

Mike V. said...

MJ...btw, I agree that there are lots of hints being dropped (even on the show with Ben/Hawking) that not all will be going back to the Island at one time. Should be interesting to see how it plays out!

Anonymous said...

Time for a little shoutout for Rousseau and her crew of unknowns. (It's about time LOST showed her in a flashback.)

Now we know that Rousseau's team is going to come down with a mysterious sickness. The question is, which kind? There seem to be a number of bizarre medical conditions on this island:

1. Minkowski's Syndrome: Symptoms include a consciousness displaced between different periods in a subject's life, fainting spells, catatonia, nosebleeds, and ultimately death.

Cause: Exposure to high levels of radiation or electromagnetic fields combined with travel across a time bubble.

Treatment: finding a "constant", a person or object present in both time periods to which the subject has a profound emotional attachment.

Known Sufferers: George Minkowski, Desmond Hume, Theresa Spencer, Eloise the Rat

2. Cabin Fever: Symptoms include disorientation, suicidal tendencies

Causes: Prolonged proximity to time bubbles

Treatment: Unknown

Known Sufferers: Regina, miscellaneous crew of the Kahana.

3. Temporal Jet Lag: Symptoms included nosebleeds, seizures, headaches, double vision, and long term memory loss.

Causes: Time travel

Treatment: Unknown

Known Sufferers: Charlotte Lewis, Miles Straume, Juliet Burke


People seem to be confusing disease number 1 with disease number 3, but it should be noted that with the exception of the highly-visible nosebleeds, they have completely different symptoms.

Mike V. said...

A few links:

Interview with Daniel Dae Kim on what to expect for Jin:
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Lost-Preview-Jin-1002744.aspx

Doc Jensen:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,1550612_20245769_20258405,00.html



and mild spoiler below (but if you read these comments, not so much!)























looks like I was right with my prediction of when Walt would show up. Here's a snippet from TV Guide's Mega Buzz:

"I recently saw Malcolm David Kelley, "Walt haircut" and all, hawking chicken snacks in a Tyson commercial. It didn't fill me with a lot of hope for his future on Lost. Care to comment? — Adam

MATT: Did it occur to you that MDK was working the Walt 'do because he recently filmed an episode of Lost, scheduled to air Feb. 25? Just don't expect Michael's son to factor into Ben's mission to return select former castaways to the isle. As Michael Emerson tells us, "The writers would say that Walt ... left the island at a time that wasn't key. It's not just about the six who left; it's about when and how they left.""

Mike V. said...

Ugh, here's the Doc Jensen link since it ran off the page:


Doc Jensen

Dave C said...

What if back when Alex was about to be killed by kemmie, and Ben was saying go ahead, kill her. Ben already knew (or at least thought) that she couldn't die, like micheal couldn't. That's why he was almost antagonizing kemmie. He may have thought that with his moving of the island he himself would be able to travel in time to save Alex. Just a thought, or possibly just stating the obvious that took me months to figure out

Anonymous said...

Hello we need the comments from last night episode

Mike V. said...

well i need someone to do my day job! lol be patient...I'm working on it! :-)

Miles Balzard said...

Of all the main characters from flight 815, the one that seems to have changed the least after being on the island is Sawyer. He's pretty much the same guy he was on the first day, and that reliable "constant" has been something I've counted on as a fan.

Glad to see Jin is alive! There is hope yet for my favorite couple of the series.

This episode kept most of the plot humming along at a nice pace, capitalizing on the set ups from the first three episodes of the season, but yeah I'm still feeling groggy from the pace of getting the Oceanic 6 back together to return to the island. The island scenes were really solid though.

Ah, finally we will get the Rousseau backstory. She was never quite in my top 5 characters because we never knew enough about her, but she was strangely appealing and I felt so much sympathy for her daughter. I hope they both find a way to time travel to another time dimension and have a happy life together.

Mike V. said...

@Miles - I have to totally disagree with you on Sawyer. I think he actually may be one of the ones that changed the most. Maybe with his ability to throw in a sarcastic joke when one is needed, that hasn't changed. But, he went from being a loner in the 1st season to pretty much a team player through his growth. And there may be even further development coming up for him.

It definitely was awesome to see where Jin showed up!

I'm telling you, all of the season 5 episodes play nicely on a rewatch...even the off-island scenes. At least I think so.

Very very interesting on your final comments here. Again, I don't want to say anything to spoil what's ahead. But, I'll at least say it's interesting! lol

aly said...

Miles is already on season 6 or finished the series? Argh, we were at the same point in the show around early August! He really pulled ahead there, haha. In my defense I am trying to watch one episode per night, sometimes more on the weekends so I’m doing the best I can. :) Thanks for the TV recs, I’ve got Mad Men on my queue, as well as Suits & House of Cards. I should add The Sopranos, don’t know why I haven’t yet. Looking forward to the return of Homeland as well, what a show.

So Jeremy Bentham is LOCKE, argh, when I first heard his name I was like, oh it must be Ben as BENtham. I’m an idiot. Do we ever find out more about the story of Henry Gale? Or did that kinda just drop… knowing Lost, they can’t have just dropped it… they never do… I’m glad we’ll learn more about Nadia. I still stand by my theory that she is not so “good.”

I’m quite upset learning about Doc Jensen now! Surely you should’ve gotten that job with Tomorrowland. Hmph. ;)

So anyway, onto some thoughts since my last comment…

I definitely did not believe Sun one iota when she told Kate she didn’t blame her for Jin. No way. We already know how good Sun is at lying. Maybe she also holds Ben responsible (rightfully so) but I don’t buy that she’s not still upset with Kate/Jack/Sayid. I actually thought she was going to kidnap Aaron when Kate left him with her, but obviously I was wrong on that account…

I have this theory that all the original islanders are in on this time jumping thing. Which btw WHOA it’s getting so crazy with this time bending! Anyway. Maybe there are no ghosts on the island, maybe it’s just time travellers. Hence why Goodwin’s wife suddenly disappeared on Juliet & Jack & why people keep appearing an reappearing, particularly Christian. Though I actually also believe that Claire is dead and wandering around (or in some in-between state) so that ruins my no ghosts, only time-jumpers theory! Lol I seem to ramble in circles too.

I still can’t work out why it was freezing when Ben turned the wheel. What does cold weather have to do with anything? How does it even make sense that it’s cold, since they seemed to travel quite far down and we know that the closer you get to the center of the earth, the hotter… To quote Sawyer from one of my favorite lines (when we first meet Juliet and the others in season 3 after they’ve captured Kate/Sawyer/Jack) “What the hell is going on??!”

Also with Ben freaking out that the rules were changed, he’s got to be referring to a time-travel rule or something. Like Alex wasn’t supposed to die cos she played some key role. Oh, I don’t know.

There is still some argument over who The Economist is at this point, but I thought for sure it was John Locke? The guy his character is named after is actually an economist… isn’t Jeremy Bentham also an economist?

(argh I'm getting cut off, must copy/paste rest of comments in a separate comment...)

aly said...

(cont)

I think you said in a previous comment (or someone else) that Juliet seems to play all her cards really close to her chest, despite the fact that she’s running around with everyone else. I think so too! She jokes about ALIENS when it comes to that plane runway, etc. Why not just tell everyone everything she knows? Why is she STILL playing coy at this point?

Same with Dan, really. I’m starting to wonder if he’s as benevolent as we think, especially seeing how he left Theresa. I really like his character though. I also think his mother is Eloise Hawking (and that she was the Ellie that Dan was staring at in the past), though either she’s divorced and took her maiden name, or never married Dan’s father. Either way, if she’s Dan’s mother, they’ve got different last names. And Miles, is he baby Chang? Seems to be looking that way, though how come he knew that Charlotte had been to the island before but didn’t know about himself? Also, I’m not convinced Charlotte was born on the island, just that she’s been there before. I’m also not convinced she doesn’t know she’d been there before. When Miles confronted her and she was all “what do you mean?” I think she was covering it up. And as far as Miles being born on the island, what if he wasn’t? What if Chang “took” him the same way Ben took Alex? Maybe they take “special” kids like Walt? Miles is obviously special with this abilities. I don’t know, I’m making my own head hurt. I’m probably overthinking.

And omg poor Jin! He has no idea about this time-flashing stuff going on, he only just learned English, and now he’s stuck with Rousseau’s French crew! Oh man, this guy’s had a baaaaad week, haha. Hope he meets up with Sawyer soon, the two of them are comedy gold. Loved Sawyer’s “THANK YOU LORD” “I TAKE THAT BACK” had me in stitches, lol.

I want more on Richard Alpert. I still need to know why he never ages.

OK, that is all, thanks for the replies even five years after the show has been wrapped up, haha.

Mike V. said...

Aly - Oh yeah, Miles finished up a couple weekends ago. He flew through it!

House of Cards is on my list too. Not sure when I'll get around to it. But yeah..Sopranos is a classic. Maybe a couple seasons too long, but only season 4 makes it noticeable! lol (plus when running through it the way you would, it wouldn't be that bad)

I guess I may as well prepare you now. LOST may have a few loose ends when all is said and done, but many made their peace with the fact that the writers wouldn't be able to address everything. Henry Gale is an example of one of the things that they really didn't revisit. As for learning more about Nadia, I believe I said that the Nadia vs. Shannon debate will be addressed. lol And in a way you might not see coming! (And I can't really say when it happens)

LOL on Tomorrowland. Clearly, you never read a Doc Jensen recap. You should see some of the theories he came up with. There was no way the writers could have ever conceived some of the crap he was putting up there. Highly entertaining though! And it earned him a writing job on Tomorrowland. lol Because, clearly if he could come up with that based on what Lindelof wrote in LOST, he could potentially enhance a lindelof script! (maybe)

I went through similar theories that you are with the time traveling and the "no ghosts" thing. It definitely made sense to me! Rambling in circles is perfectly fine when trying to figure out what the show is doing. I told miles over and over again. Season 5 is my favorite to rewatch. You'll see why as you go through!

Yeah...I came up with some crazy theories about the "frozen" donkey wheel...they're probably in these comments eventually. But, this might be another example of something that won't get touched on in a high level of detail in the future of the show (unfortunately). What you have to keep in mind is while it is fun to speculate on the details (I certainly did so), it's also equally fun to just embrace LOST as great dramatic television with great characters that you enjoy watching in this crazy world. If you keep a healthy balance between the 2, you should make it through to the end without feeling betrayed! :-) I'll state for the record, I never felt betrayed and I had a hell of a time theorizing for 6 years while the show was on the air. A show like this can't please everyone when it comes to forming an end game.

(I shouldn't be saying anything because it creates expectations either positively or negatively...but you'd see them in my comments to Miles anyway! lol)

There's a chance Juliet did NOT know why they were building that runway. Stuff like that may become clearer before the end. Juliet only may have known what she was told. I think she was just being sarcastic with Sawyer in that example. But yeah...that was one problem with LOST. Characters knew things that would be helpful if they shared them, and they didn't always do that. Just have to suspend disbelief there. lol

All great theories with the Freighter peeps still on the island. I don't want to spoil anything there, but you will find out more about them this season!

LOL on Jin and the French Team!

More is coming with Richard...but, don't get too impatient! :-)

No problem on the replies. Keep the comments coming!

Leta said...

I was determined not to comment on this one, but ahh! Jin getting rescued by the French crew? That's too awesome and too weird to pass unmentioned! Poor Jin, to get thrown in the middle of this mess.

What does Sawyer miss most from 815er's camp? Dharma beer.Poor guy was really pissed when he found it gone!

Regarding your question in your last comment, Mike - I'm from Europe. Lithuania, to be precise. Ah, the joys of Internet - one can be speaking to a person on the other side of the world and not know it :)

Mike V. said...

I loved season 5 because it gave the writers a different way to give us those stories of the Island's past where it didn't have to be a character flashback. So, we stumbled upon Alex Rousseau and we get to see what happened to her team! Good stuff. Of course people got too tied up in the mechanics of time travel and how the island made that possible (which I did too) to appreciate the storytelling aspect and how it opened the door for stuff like that. Sometimes, you just gotta go with it!

Yeah Sawyer and his beer...can't blame the man! :)

So true about the internet. Actually, I do have some tools that I can track statistics of where people are checking the blog from...so during it's main run, I was getting hits from many countries around the world. It was pretty awesome to see that! Glad to see you're still finding it all the way on the other side of the world. :)