Friday, April 25, 2008

LOST: Season 4 Episode 9 - The Shape of Things to Come

Good Morning LOSTIES! Seems like ages since we last talked!! Well, that is, unless you were part of the 175 Comment debate on "Meet Kevin Johnson" and/or Time Bubbles! (wha???) A LOST hiatus can drive even the most sane people mad! Lots of Post Writers Strike drama if you hadn't been keeping up! We're getting a 3 hour finale now (for starters)! Part one airs May 14th, May 22nd there will be no LOST episode. But May 29th you can treat yourself to part 1 again followed by the 2 hour PART II to give a fitting end to season 4! Lots of pondering to the "MYSTERY SCENE" dubbed the "Frozen Donkey Wheel" by the producers. What will be our "FLASH FORWARD" -like game changer this season? Rumor has it that they're going to blow our minds again! But hey, who needs to wait until May 29th for some Mind Blowing action? I think we had more than enough in the grand post-strike returning Ben-centric episode "The Shape of Things to Come!" Lots of gunfire, globe-trotting, Smoke-Train devouring, Sawyer nicknaming, Stomach cramping, shoulder revealing, "red-shirt" dying, more dramatic dying to keep everyone on their toes the whole episode. Not to mention the mini-game changing end scene. Kids, hope you were buckled in Thursday night because this ain't your Old Man's LOST anymore! If the first 8 episodes were kicked into overdrive, I don't know how we can explain the "shape" of the 5 that are to come! All I can say is hold on for dear life because here.......come........the.........WOWs!!!!!!!!!

So where to begin? Well, we kick things off pretty much where we left off. There was an imminent threat on the island that attacked Alex, Rousseau and Karl. (I guess we need to assume for now that Rousseau and Karl kicked the bucket, but I don't recall any confirmation in this episode. Did anyone else catch anything?). This sets Camp Lockeness in motion. Meanwhile, Jack and crew are still left hopeless waiting for word from the freighter (thank God that story looks like it's finally going somewhere!) And while all of this is going on, we see quite another side of Benjamen Linus in what seemed like a TREK to the future but justified by Ben as a flash forward. That crazy Ben may even lie to the audience too! Yikes! And drama ensues as always....let's dig in!



Camp Shephard and the Stomach Pains (better band name than Driveshaft?)

We begin our tale on a shot of a calm ocean. Kate is rolling her shirt down to show off her shoulders to Jack. Yeah Jaters get excited! Jack smiles but then reveals he's taking some antibiotics to kill a stomach bug he's been having. Well, I was starting to think if the Time-hopping wasn't the "SICKNESS" that Rousseau's crew had, then maybe Jack was getting it. However, previews for next week suggest otherwise. (Have I mentioned how I cannot resist previews but sometimes hate them???) But just when you think Kate is going to make Jack some chicken soup and they're going to fall in loooooooove, naturally a dead body comes ashore!
  • Who is it? Why it's the DOC from the freighter with a slit throat! Daniel makes another reference to time being a factor but then Charlotte quickly stops him again.
  • Daniel decides to be all Sayid-like and fix the SAT phone to be able to transmit messages to the freighter a la Morse Code. To make a long story short, Daniel fixes the phone and transmits a message "What happened to the doc?" he receives a very long message back and pretty much just said the "helicopters" are bringing your friends back. Well, at least Bernard decided to make yet another Rose-less appearance this week to reveal to us he knows Morse Code! Because what the message really said was "What are you talking about? The Doc is fine!!" Okay, here's 2 questions....who on the freighter knows Morse Code now that their communications guy is dead? And WHAT???? Doc is soooo dead on the island but alive on the freighter? Is someone pulling our chain or is there definite Time-differentials going on here? This would seem to imply that the BODY (not just the mind) can appear in different times too. And it kinda makes me like the theory going around that when the Oceanic 6 make their return, they will come to the island possibly in the PAST and be the people hiding in the Temple, and the ones Whispering in the jungle the past 4 seasons, AND might just be the ones that bring 10 year old Walt to the island and allow him to grow and become a teenager in a few months time! But of course, this is all speculation, and it is based on lots of our 175 comments the past 5 weeks and EW's Doc Jensen's ramblings. But with dead Doc showing up on island but being alive and well on the freighter, just seems to make this BILL AND TED'S EXCELLENT ADVENTURE/ Harry Potter 3 scenario possible!
  • Okay but besides all of that, how about WHINY JACK returning??? When it's in small doses, I kinda dig it! But season 3? A little too much whiny jack! But he went off on Daniel this week and asked if they were ever planning on rescuing the 815 survivors? The answer? No man, Locke and Ben were totally right. You are so going to grow a beard in a few years and try to jump off a bridge! And then enter the stomach pains getting worse and worse. Looks like Jack is going down for the count, and in case you didn't watch the preview I won't spoil why (for now).

Camp Lockeness and the Smokey Brigade


We open this storyline with Alex's captors taking her to the Sonic Fence and asking her to enter the code. This triggers the Bat Phone in Ben's house which Locke answers. "Code 14J.......CODE 14J!!!!" They ponder for 5 minutes then go ask Ben what it is....then we start our roller coaster ride of a thriller! Ben cries "They're here!!!" and yours truly realizes how dumb he was at the end of episode 8 "Meet Kevin Johnson."

  • In my defense, I am taking notes an entire episode and then waking up at 6am to get to work on these things! So sometimes not putting together the most obvious things is where I look to our fabulous readers to help me out! I am sorry for steering everyone wrong suggesting that Alex/Rousseau/Karl's attackers may have been the "STEALTHY OTHERS" that have seemed to all but disappear (I still want to know what that was all about though!). No, it was way more obvious. We saw Keamy in Michael's flashback shooting at Clay pigeons with a machine gun and quite enjoying himself. We also see Keamy and Frank getting ready for a mission to the island. And then we start seeing people getting sniped on the island after Ben suggested they were coming to kill everyone. How I did not put together that Keamy was Alex's captor is beyond me! But I was quickly corrected in the comments of episode 8's blog. So thanks for keeping me on my toes readers!
  • Anyway, Ben gets in defensive mode and tries to get Hurley, Sawyer, Aaron and Locke to join him in his house and to barricade it. But Sawyer isn't going without Claire! The all get their GUNS ON and get moving.
  • So you gotta love the random survivors (which we'll refer to as RED-SHIRTS, just like Boone did while referring to Star Trek in season 1) that went with Locke's crew that just show up and get these one-liners in right before they get shot by Team Keamy!
  • You also have to laugh at how Sawyer was only concerned with getting Claire when there when these red-shirts seemingly have been on the island just as long as all the other survivors. But alas, they all get left behind! Unless we're to assume there were only 2 other people and they both were killed!
  • Oh, I have to interrupt my own story here...how about Locke, Sawyer and Hurley playing Risk at the beginning of the episode? While it was totally predictable that this is what they were doing should we be looking into Hurley's comment "Australia is key to the whole game" (naturally, I'm paraphrasing)?
  • Back to the story! There's guns ablazin everywhere, Sawyer is shooting back. Thankfully, Keamy's crew has the aim of your average Storm Trooper. But they do blow up a House and somehow avoid killing Claire. Sawyer rescues her. Have to love how unconscious Claire mentioned Charlie. Our first Post-Strike episode indicating that the writers acknowledge Claire seemingly getting over Charlie so quickly. This was a nice touch.
  • And after Hurley finishes his make-shift crib for Aaron out of a pillow and laundry basket (awwwww) he finds time to break a window against Ben's orders to get Sawyer and Claire inside.
  • And of course Miles rings the doorbell and they just let him in. He's got a walkie talkie, announces they have Alex...and the negotiations begin.
  • Ben and Keamy have a standoff, Ben mentions everything he knows about Keamy. His name is Martin, he's an ex-marine but joined some mercenary forces and he is clear to mention an infamous stint in Uganda. Hmmm perhaps a flashback coming up in that category?
  • Keamy has a gun to Alex's head but Ben tries to call his bluff and starts ranting off how Alex means nothing to him, a bargaining chip at best. He kidnapped her from a crazy lady when she was an infant. yada yada yada......BANG. Alex falls to the ground. "He changed the rules!! TO THE BAT CAVE ROBIN!" (RIP Alex by the way, totally did not see that coming)
  • Ben runs to his secret room but then reveals another secret. There is some ancient cave behind another wall with some hieroglyphics on it. Analyze to your delight!
  • My initial thought was he went on a time traveling adventure (that we see in his flash) but then I realized I was just being silly. He wasn't wearing a DHARMA Parka from the Orchid station, duh!! (more on that in a bit). It turns out he wasn't being completely honest when he told Locke that he didn't know anything about the smoke monster. Apparently, he has the ability to summon it and possibly to command it! I wonder if he was ALWAYS behind Smokey's appearances? Probably not as he makes reference to Jacob later (who has all the answers).
  • Anyway, Smokey arrives in grand fashion plowing through OTHERSVILLE (newly dubbed Camp Lockeness!) and taking care of the Freighter Mercenaries (well most of them, as we see in the previews yet again, someone made it out of there). But the producers promised every time we see smokey, we'll see a new aspect of it. Well the train-like motion that it entered with was pretty crazy as well as the flashing lights all throughout the smoke. While it took on a different shape, I believe Ben summoning it is the big reveal this time. Whatever it was, it was totally cool. This is the first time, Smokey also was used to HELP our survivors rather than be used against them. Check out below and analyze to your delight!

  • We see Ben say goodbye to Alex. Pretty touching stuff. Crazy kidnapping Ben actually shows emotion!
  • Okay so next move for the Locke/Ben brain trust? They need to seek out Jacob and need Hurley to find him (because he saw the shack in the season premiere).
  • Sawyer has finally had enough and he wants to take Claire, Aaron and Chicken Little (had to get the new Hurley nickname in at some point!) back to the beach. SKATERS get excited! Jaters beware!
  • Revision: WHOOPS! Miles goes with Sawyer's crew too
  • Locke and Sawyer get in a stand-off over Hurley. Not wanting to cause trouble (and possibly intrigued by Jacob), Hurley decides to stay with Ben and Locke. And thus, Team Locke is disbanded and any remaining Red-Shirts that were with them are totally unaccounted for! (I guess they're only there when it's convenient for the show!)
  • We're off to see the Wizard...the wonderful wizard of.... Stay Tuned!
The Linus Time Continuum

Okay, so this was one crazy FLASH of something for Ben! We open up with him in the middle of the Sahara Desert decked out in a Dharma Parka. From Ben's behavior, it seems that he was just placed there, kinda like transported!



  • Lots to discuss here. For instance, why a PARKA? Was he in a cold location prior to his relocation? Is it related to our friends in the arctic at the end of season 2?
  • How about that Logo? Is it the logo of the long-discussed ORCHID STATION? (if you haven't seen the Orchid Video teaser for season 4 yet, you better do some brushing up! Click here)
  • I forgot to mention the parka reveals the name Hallowax, referring to Dr. Edgard Hallowax, another alias for Dr. Marvin Candle of DHARMA Video fame. It is the name he uses in said Orchid Video, further tying it all together.
  • The Orchid Station is rumored to play a key role in the events leading to the finale. And it also seems to play a key role in time travel, displayed by the Bunny appearing out of nowhere. Hmmm kinda like Ben appeared in the Sahara Desert (which we later realize he's near Tunisia). Hmmm kinda like a DHARMA Polar Bear was found in the middle of the desert and seemed to have been there for many many many many years to decay the way it did. Hmmm and Polar Bears come from cold climates too, just like Ben appeared to have come from with his Parka! Are we all making the connection here yet folks? Are you starting to believe my rants that there might be some TIME PORTAL into Tunisia off the island? And if this is true, is there one close to Nigeria and one in the Indian Ocean too?
  • Ben gets captured by some members of Al Qaeda (well I don't know who they really were but they didn't look friendly!) And he shows that he is not just Island-lying Ben. He's BENJAMEN "Jason" BOURNE! He showed those crazy gun wielding crazies who was boss and totally took control of the situation. Who IS this guy??? Ben takes the horse and rides into the sunset.
  • He gets to Tozeur, Tunisia revealing that he has been there before (long before). But then he interestingly asks the year. October 24th, 2005 (one year, 1 month and 2 days after the 815 crash). So the question is, has it really been that long for Ben? It would seem from later events that the death of Alex is very fresh in his head during this "venture." Perhaps when the Oceanic 6 are getting off of the island, we'll see Ben venturing to this Orchid station and finding his way off the island as well to prepare for the LOST End Game. All speculation naturally!
  • While he is in Tunisia, he sees Sayid on TV (due to his Oceanic 6 fame) whose wife has just died. Well we got our answer to Sayid finding Nadia kids. He sure does and they lived in Los Angeles for a little while before one of Widmore's goons killed Nadia.
  • Naturally, this leads to a meeting in Iraq for Ben and Sayid for the Nadia funeral. Sayid runs after Ben and rants about people spying on him! (probably a reference to whoever is sponsoring this Oceanic 6 campaign) Once realizing it is Ben he asks how Ben gets off the island (further going to my theory that Ben was going to Orchid station in parallel to the Oceanic 6 getting off the island. This confirms Ben did not hitch a ride with the Oceanic 6)
  • Ben gives the story that he used Desmond's sailboat following a bearing to Fiji. Very plausible since he was very persistent on getting Desmond's boat in season 3, except for the whole snowglobe thing with Desmond trying to leave the island. It would seem that bearing 305 is the only way off (but we still didn't see HOW Michael and Walt found rescue). I dunno, Ben lies all the time and this would seem to be another case. What does he gain by lying to Sayid? No clue.
  • Anyway, long story short Ben tracks down Nadia's killer who is a Widmore goon. He wanted to deliver a message to Widmore but Sayid ended up unloading his gun onto the assassin. Sayid complains about his 8 year search for Nadia, finding her marrying her and then her getting killed. His life is over and now wants to go for Widmore too. Thus, we get our Sayid/Ben connection. And Ben gets Sayid a hair straightener. He says he'll be in touch, which we must assume leads to Sayid's eventual flashforward. Of course, in that flash it seemed like he is feeling pressured by Ben to complete these tasks. I can only assume it took its toll on Sayid because he developed feelings for his target.
  • We then follow Ben to London where he keys his way into Charles Widmore's penthouse and see the 1st meeting of the minds (well, for the audience. it would seem these 2 have known each other for quite some time).
  • Charles seemed to be expecting Ben. He said that he started sleeping with Scotch by the bed (McCutcheon' again). He responded "When the Nightmares started." Immediately I made the connection. Charles has been to the island before! And then I started to think more. Wait, Jack started drinking after the island, his father was an alcoholic. Could they be suffering from similar nightmares? Is this further proof that Christian Shephard was also an island dweller previously? This also seems to indicate that Charles knew Desmond was island bound when he went on the sailing race and that he knew what was going on with Desmond at the auction. Perhaps he wanted to keep Desmond and Penny in touch because he knew Desmond was the only chance at keeping Penny alive? (hmm more on that in a few)
  • Charles claims that the island was HIS before it was Ben's. It seems like these two used to be acquaintances. Maybe Charles Widmore is the backer of DHARMA (as previously pondered) and is pretty P.O.'d at Ben for participating in the PURGE of the DHARMA folk. It would explain them knowing about the Tempest Station and wanting to dismantle it. But would Widmore claim ownership of the island over the island natives?
  • Basically Ben's visit to Charles came down to one thing, he accuses Charles of killing Alex. Charles insists Ben did it to himself. Ben references the RULE CHANGING again. What rules??? Ben has become determined to find Penny Widmore and kill her so that Charles can share in the pain. Charles claims Ben will never find Penny. Ben claims Charles will never find the island. THE HUNT IS ON!

BOOM! LOST!!!!!!



Okay, well let me be the first to say, while I love the character of Ben, they better not go near actually killing Penny! I'm a realist, the chance of LOST having a happy ending for everyone is slim to none. But come on! DEZ and Penny MUST have a happy ending! All of the viewers are invested in their eventual reunion! I wouldn't be too upset if these events set up the eventual Desmond/Ben stand-off. Of course, Jack/Ben standoffs are a good time too! Who knows what's gonna go down on this crazy show? We have 39 more hours to go!

COFFIN WATCH

I'm going to skip the Coffin Watch for this week, but I'm going to suggest that it's NOT Ben at this point. It could be due to possible time differences between him working with Sayid and Bearded Suicidal Jack going to the funeral. But I just don't see Ben being dead before the Oceanic 6 head back to the Island. Of course Ben possibly being dead in one time period, doesn't mean he couldn't still be alive in another, case in point...FREIGHTER DOC! I still am leaning towards Michael. But we shall see! I guess I didn't skip the Coffin Watch!

That's it LOSTIES! Hope you enjoyed my ramblings as much as I enjoyed writing them! Please comment away with your thoughts. I won't be around much today, but will try to catch up tomorrow! See you next week!

134 comments:

cdstedman said...

No sense worrying about last night being too hyped, it meet all the hype and beyond!!!

A little long so bear with me.

The first scene of Ben lying in the desert was interesting. I see two possibilities here. One, we know it was a flash-forward and it was just Ben in that time looking for Sayid. Second, (my favorite) directly involves the orchid video. If you haven’t seen it or don’t want to know about it please move on to the next paragraph. The video had two rabbits with the same number on them, were they the same rabbit from two different times or was the second rabbit a clone? Think of the movie the Prestige, wolverine gets into his machine and 10 feet away an exact clone of himself is created. Now throw in the fact that that clone can be thrown through time and you have what I think is happing on Lost. That’s the orchid station. Ben transported himself to the future to avenge his daughter. Look at the fact to support it, access to the station is through Ben’s secret room. He’s told the others and they believe it that he’s never set foot off the island, that might be true that this Ben hasn’t but we’ve seen that he has. When Ben was talking to Widmore Alex’s death was still fresh on his mind like it just happened, not the year ago like the date suggested. It could explain the short timeframe Tom was able to recruit Michael while he died on the island just days later. The polar bear that Charlotte found in the desert, test subject.

Now let’s talk about “The Game.” It’s no coincidence that Hurly, Locke, and Sawyer were playing the game Risk. That’s what Ben and Widmore are playing, but with real lives. It’s a game of power, Ben took the island from Widmore (which I’m 100% convinced now that Widmore was directly involved with DARMA) Widmore probably took it from Hanso and now Widmore wants it back. It makes since that there are rules, Ben has always been confident that he knows what’s going on and that he was in control because he couldn’t die. He could send his pawns out to die but he always knew he would live because that was the rule and the game must go on. Ben and Widmore can’t kill each other, there’s one rule we know. But Alex’s death shocked Ben to the core last night that was against the rules. The rules have change and sense we don’t know the old rules I have no idea what the new rules will be.

Random thoughts.

It’s safe to assume that Penny was the Economist.

Coffin watch, I’m still routing for Ben.

Anonymous said...

Interesting that Ben can't kill Widmore. Is that because Widmore is "stuck" on the island in another time? I am sure that I am wrong, but what if Jacob and Widmore are one in the same? Anyways, there is a lot of speculation that people can't die off the island if they still "have work to do" or maybe if they are also on the island in a different time?

Also, did you catch the smirk on Ben's face as he walked away from Sayid? Maybe Ben killed Sayid's wife to enlist his help in seeking Ben's revenge. Maybe the man who Sayid killed was just keeping tabs on him in case he could lead Widmore back to the island. Maybe Ben can't kill Widmore, but Sayid can? There is a lot of speculation that "The Economist" is Widmore, so if Sayid is trying to kill him in the future, then Ben manipulating Sayid by killing his wife would seem to fit.

The fact that Ben didn't know what year it was seems very important. Maybe the time on and off the island isn't in sync. I have tried to argue this many times, but have always been "shot down". Goes back to my theory that Desmond and Penny were talking to each other in two different times. Also, if Penny is in another time, it would make it very hard for Ben to find her, no?

I know whoever sent the message saying the Doc is fine could be trying to mislead the Losties, but I think it is another clue to the different "time" elements.

Last, I don't think Ben took a boat off the island. I think he time traveled to the Middle East. Did you notice how he seemed to shake or twitch as he was "coming to" in the middle of the desert? I don't think he could tell Sayid the truth for many reasons including the fact that Sayid would then want to go back in time to save his wife. Once again ties into the fact that Ben needs to manipulate Sayid into trying to kill Widmore.

-Addict

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

I understand where you are going with your clone theory, but I think an important point to consider with the Orchid video is that they didn't want the two rabbits to see each other. Most time travel theories involve the people or animals from the different time periods not coming into contact or interacting with one another.

I would think that clones would be in each other's presence when first created unless one was cultivated in a petri dish, lol.

I know that anything is possible on "Lost", but just something to consider when thinking about time travel versus cloning theories.

I like the parallel between the game "Risk" and what is happening between Widmore and Ben. What happened to Hanso, though? I would think that he would have been another "player" vying for control of the island.

I think that "The Economist" is still Widmore or at least definitely a male character.

-Addict

cdstedman said...

“With the Orchid video is that they didn't want the two rabbits to see each other. Most time travel theories involve the people or animals from the different time periods not coming into contact or interacting with one another.”

Yea, I though of that to. I still like the theory though, and if not a clone it could still be a Prestige like machine that transports him. Maybe he can only go to special places on the earth like the on where Rose went in Australia; Australia is the key you know. lol

Anonymous said...

I just re-watched the orchid video and "the shift" was set to -20 (minutes?) 9 minutes ago.

I think that the Orchid station was being used to study time travel, but that they were still working out the kinks.

Does anyone else have ideas of what the -20 shift is referring to?

-Addict

cndwelch said...

Holy cow!!! My head is spinning - gotta go watch it again. Didn't smokey kill Keamy? They showed him in next week's promo, so it looks like he may still be alive, but why? Maybe Ben wants to personally put a bullet in his brain. Hmmmm..... My head hurts. That was definitely a 90mph ep. Where's my remote? Thank goodness for DVRs!

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

I think the Dharma folk did invent some sort of machine to help capture or manipulate the island's ability to cause time shifts if not time travel. I say this because Desmond's mind shifted to a different time period without the use of machine in the helicopter (that I am aware of at least, lol). So, I am thinking that the Dharma folk were working on fine tuning time travel (or duplication?), but hadn't completely worked out all of the kinks.

Random thought, what if Widmore was on the island but time traveled off of it before all of the kinks (like returning) were worked out?

Coffin Watch: I think the coffin could be a great way for the writers to reinforce what we learned in the Orchid video, two of the same rabbit/person can esist at once. Add this to the fact that we know time is different on and off the island, then what if the person in the coffin is someone who already died on the island? Many people (me included) have theories that a person such as Michael can't die off the island if they are alive on it, but a point for discussion is the following:

if there are two of the same person (let's say Michael), one on the island and one off, then can the one off die after the one on the island dies or does the one off the island die simultaneously when the one on the island dies?

-Addict

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

Not saying that "cloning" and time travel have to be mutually exclusive, but in the video you can see a fast moving shadow before the camera pans to the second rabbit. So if cloning is involved, the rabbit would have had to be cloned off camera with the second rabbit time traveling to be on camera.

I agree with you that the Dharma folk invented some type of machine, but I am leaning toward a time travel machine instead of a cloning/time travel machine(s). I am sure that we will have to wait many episodes before we know if either one of us are even close, lol.

-Addict

cdstedman said...

Mike
Okay, here's 2 questions....who on the freighter knows Morse Code now that their communications guy is dead? And WHAT???? Doc is soooo dead on the island but alive on the freighter? Is someone pulling our chain or is there definite Time-differentials going on here? This would seem to imply that the BODY (not just the mind) can appear in different times too.

One, I would hope that any ship captain would know Morse code but I could be wrong. Two, Another example of time differentials going to and from the island. First Daniel’s payload took 31 minutes longer to reach the island (moving to the future going to the island). Second, the chopper took X more hours to reach the freighter (moving to the future leaving the island). Third, now the Dr. dead body floats to the island with him still alive in the present, if you believe the freight people saying he’s “fine.” (moving to the past going to the island) All they need now is an example of something moving to the past leaving the island and they’ve covered all the basics of Daniel telling us the effects are random.

Anonymous said...

Coffin watch = Clair

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

You wrote: "Dr. dead body floats to the island with him still alive in the present, if you believe the freight people saying he’s “fine.” (moving to the past going to the island)"

I am confused. If the person sending the message is telling the truth, then wouldn't the body floating to the island be going to the future? If the Doc is "fine" in the present (boat time) then he has to be dead in the future, no?

-Addict

cdstedman said...

I think the writers are trying to establish that going to and from the island is random. Not just to the future but to the past as well. Yes he is dead in the future but when he died he got thrown into the water and floated to the island. We know there is some weird time thing happening when going to and from the island and I think it threw his body to the past to a time before he was killed on the boat hence the he's fine on the freighter comment. So he's dead but the freighter isn't lieing either. Weird and confusing I know but what isn't on this show lol.

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

You wrote: "First Daniel’s payload took 31 minutes longer to reach the island (moving to the future going to the island)."

Daniel's payload actually proves that the island at that point in time was in the past in relation to the freightor. If the payload was being sent to the future, then it would have appeared instantly.

You also wrote:

"Second, the chopper took X more hours to reach the freighter (moving to the future leaving the island)."

Based on Ben's comment about what year it is, it may not be the next day on the freightor, but possibly a different month, year, etc. in the future or the past. I know that this thought goes against your slow motion theory, but just something to consider.

The Doc's dead body being in the past seems to go against the producers saying that once you are dead you are dead. I still don't understand how the Doc could be dead in the past and co-exist with himself also being alive? Also, if you are trying to support your theory of the time travel to and from the island being random in respects to future/past, it would be more convincing to have the Doc's dead body be in the "future" on the island since this would be opposite of the island being in the past in relation to the freightor with your payload and helicopter examples (assuming that the helicopter lands 16 hours in the future, which I don't necessarily believe anymore).

Daniel's random comment was also about the side effects of traveling to and from the island in talking about Desmond's mind traveling back in time. This doesn't mean that time travel cannot be random as well, but I think less likely. Otherwise, how do you explain Ben traveling (I think through time) to find Sayid at his wife's funeral with "evidence" in hand of a picture of the man following him?

I just got a laugh out of thinking about Ben's character time traveling many, many times only to not get where he wants to go saying, "Ohhh noooooo, not again."

-Addict

noel said...

Coffin watch: Sayid

Confronts Penny to carry out Ben's assignment, realizes how much Desmond loves her and how much he loved Nadia. He then commits suicide.

David said...

What about if Widmore's race around the world was an attempt to actually find the Island, a race covers all angles around the globe in case it can be found which of course it was. Just a thought.

~David

Mike V. said...

I cannot believe I forgot to mention Ben saying he couldn't kill Widmore. It was like the biggest thing I wanted to talk about. I was running out of steam at the end of the blog I think! lol But yeah, I thought this was tied to Michael not being able to kill himself and Jack and Locke...etc... Kinda where I was going with Widmore having been to the island before. WHOOPS! Thanks for calling that out!

With the coffin watches, all good guesses. I guess the thing I keep coming back to is Kate's reaction to Jack wondering why Kate didn't go to the funeral. "Why would I go to the funeral???" she says. Granted, there may be a falling out with the Oceanic 6. Remember Hurley is happy that no one else came to see Sun and Ji Yeon. So maybe this does mean that it could be an Oceanic 6er...But I still come back to the African American neighborhood and the NEW YORK reference in the newspaper clipping. That's why I think it all fits for Michael. And yeah it does seem too obvious to be Michael. And it probably isn't. But I just can't think of who else fits ALL of the pieces!

Good call on the sailing race David. It definitely could all be connected.

Anyway, sorry I wasn't around for all of the intense debating today. I'm going to have some time to burn tomorrow, so I'm gonna read all of your thoughts and share mine! lol Keep up the posting!

Mike V. said...

also thank you for no one commenting on my typos! There were tons of them! lol

Mike V. said...

Watching through a 2nd time right now. Just remembered Ben's injury when he appears in the Sahara desert. It seems that he was being attacked prior to his placement in the Sahara desert. (time traveling placement at that! lol) I still have a feeling that we will see the events that led to that point in this year's finale. But who knows???

I'm sure I'll be posting a couple more times before I'm done this 2nd run through! lol

cndwelch (i think i spelled right), just saw your post. I had indicated in the blog that apparently smokey didn't kill everyone which was spoiled by previews for next week lol So yeah, I was under the impression Keamy was killed too. But that crazy ABC promo department likes to keep us psyched for the next week more than they like to keep us unspoiled! I guess somehow he got away before Smokey was able to snag him.

Mike V. said...

More thoughts from 2nd viewing:

- In Tunisia, when Ben said he's a preferred guest and showed the "Dean Moriarity" passport that we had seen in a previous episode, did anyone notice how scared the Hotel Receptionist looked? Seems to me there is more to the story of Ben's presence in Tunisia in prior visits.

-Something I didn't think about the first time around. Ben was the one that asked if it was 2005, and the receptionist confirmed. So it would seem like Ben was HOPING this is when he'd arrive. OR he was hoping that his travels would NOT cause a time jump. Maybe the effects of these travels are not random and Ben knew WHEN he would jump to. Notice how when Sayid is questioning how Ben got off the island Sayid asks "WHY NOW???" (of all times? why 10 months after we left the island? well..we assume it's about 10 months lol) Ben kinda dodged the question and went into the Charles Widmore battle again. I just don't think Ben would sit idle for 10 months on the island prior to traveling off the island. So with this in mind...I'm still leaning towards that he time traveled and took some kind of PORTAL off the island that landed him 10 months later in Tunisia. It sounds so far fetched to think this way. But we know there is an element of science fiction to this show! So I'm going with it for now! lol

-Nice touch of US Military presence in Iraq

we did get confirmation from Alex that Karl and Rousseau are dead. I guess this is what the producers were referring to. I'll strike my questioning in the blog for now. But in a show that claimed Mikhail was dead a couple times before, I question whether Rousseau is really dead! lol

after Sayid keeps pulling trigger with no bullets left, I loved Ben's comment "That should do it" lol

Okay, now some responsese to comments made so far!

I agree with Addict that the Economist was a MALE Character. Didn't the woman that Sayid was chillin with keep referring to The Economist as a MAN? But yeah, if Ben can't kill Widmore, then it might not be him. But it would seem that they are working their way to Penny. I don't think Sayid knows this though. And if Sayid finds out his target is Penny, the tides may turn!

Here's another question I was pondering before Thursday's episode and am still pondering. Now Jack referred to Multiple Helicopters which I wasn't sure if it was a mistake on Matthew Fox's part or not. I'm rambling. My question is....when we watch Michael's freighter flashback, we see ONE chopper on the freighter, right? In season 3, didn't a chopper crash into the ocean? The one Naomi was flying? And then we definitely saw one this season going to and from the island. So what's the deal? That freighter didn't look like it fit multiple choppers. Continuity error that the writers hoped we didn't question? Or do they have multiple helicopters?

Told you I had time to kill today! lol

Anonymous said...

Mike,

What do you make of Ben's smirk after Sayid says that he wants to help him exact revenge on Widmore. Do you think that manipulative Ben might of had something to do with Sayid's murder?

-Addict

Mike V. said...

Addict,

I noticed that this time around too. Yeah it almost seems like recruiting Sayid to do his dirty work was part of his plan all along. When you say Sayid's murder, are you referring to killing Widmore's henchman? Not actually the murder of Sayid? lol Yeah maybe this was part of Ben's plan all along. It seemed like Ben legitimately wanted to send Widmore a message rather than going to Charles himself. But maybe he revised his plan when Sayid was willing to kill for him. But yes...the smirk seems to reveal that things were working in Ben's favor. lol

How's that for an answer that really doesn't answer anything? lol

Anonymous said...

Mike,

I forgot the word "wife's" between Sayid and murder. Sorry for the confusion.

For now, I think Ben very well could have been directly involved in Sayid's wife's murder. It doesn't make sense to me why the man who has been following Sayid for sometime would kill his wife and continue to follow him. To me, his mission would have been one or the other. And yes, cdstedman, I know that everything on Lost doesn't always have to make sense, lol. I think he was meant to keep tabs on Sayid to see if he could lead Widmore back to the island.

We already know that at least one other Oceanic 6'er (Hurley) has had a Widmore employee keeping tabs on him and trying to get him to return to the island.

Any thoughts on whether or not someone else (Sayid) can kill Widmore since Ben cannot?

For now, my theory is that Ben manipulated Sayid by killing his wife and blaming it on Widmore to get Sayid to hunt down and kill Widmore for Ben.

Also, I think Ben knows how to time travel and meant to go to that point in time. I think the side effects of time travel(like what happened to Desmond are random), but sometime between the Orchid video and now, that time travel has had the kinks worked out and Ben knows how to do it with little or no risk. I think he was just making sure that the year (2005) was correct. I got the feeling that the lady at the inn got freaked out because it appeared that she was looking at the first page of the records book when Ben told her his name. Kinda like, omg, how can you be the same guy who stayed here X number of years ago (as in that was a really, really long time ago).

-Addict

Mike V. said...

ahh that makes more sense with Nadia lol Yeah I had the feeling that maybe Ben was involved with that. But I dunno...I guess that would have to change my whole theory on Ben going to Orchid station in parallel to when the Oceanic 6 leave the island. But maybe not. There could be a lot that occurs before we see Ben in the desert there. lol The grin from Ben definitely makes you think something went according to plan there!

So you're thinking that maybe Ben stayed at that inn so long before that it may have been even before he could have been born? Or so long ago that he should appear a lot older than he does? That would be interesting and would definitely explain the look on her face lol Speaking of which...Maybe this is why Richard seems to not age also...perhaps he's going all time travel crazy too. lol Man, I am so scared that they will take this show to a place that will alienate a lot of viewers with this time travel stuff. I have faith though that they'll keep it digestable for the masses!

Anonymous said...

Mike,

Yeah, I know what you mean. Just look at cdstedman and my different opinions on the possible time travel. We are both big fans of the show, but if this is where the writers are going, they have a very fine line before turning off some viewers and/or just flat out confusing some of them too much.

I have been thinking about your helicopter comment. I seem to recall Naomi and Frank having an argument about her taking the helicopter out. I guess there is a chance that another helicopter was flown out to the plane to replace the one Nadia crashed or that her helicopter crashing was a cover story. I don't think another one could have been flown out though because the freightor folk give the impression that they are lost and don't know exactly where they are. I also seem to remember seeing something explode at the same time that Naomi parachuted.

I don't know how the writers will make it work, but is it possible that Naomi took the helicopter and crashed it, but at the same time never took it? Kind of like there were two rabbits at the same time. It could explain how some of the crew is going crazy.

I keep thinking that the title of the show has at least two meanings: lost on an island in the middle of nowhere (and maybe everywhere?) and lost in time (past, present, and future).

-Addict

Mike V. said...

Yeah, to me it just seems like one of those plot devices that they would hope no one would question them on. lol I just don't see how they could have more than one chopper on the plane...and if they try to explain it with time travel, I might have to say they're stretching things just a bit! lol Of course, at the same time, that's a pretty big thing for them to not think we'd question. So maybe they do have a reasonable explanation!

as for the title of the show....yeah it could mean both of those things. The producers always said that LOST is a tale of redemption for its characters and that the title symbolizes the characters losing their way but trying to find themselves, but at the same time on an overarching theme...them being LOST on an island fits at the same time lol But lost within TIME definitely fits too and also fits the Mittelos anagram that they had within the show as well.

And for them taking things too far with time travel....sometimes our first glace at a certain episode makes us think one way...but as we see more episodes, they rationalize things to us in a more logical way. I have to think that some of the grand mysteries of the show will be revealed to us this way too. Like, there has to be some kind of explanation behind the Smoke Monster, the Island's healing powers, the Time Travel element of the show. Granted, there's no way they will be able to justify them within the realms of realistic technology...which goes back to our Michael Crichton-like science fictional reality lol Where am I going with this? I have no idea. I guess the bottom line is, I don't think they're going to go so far with some of this stuff that they will alienate a majority of the viewers. People have stuck with the show thus far, they're not going to give up on it in the home stretch either. But the producers probably will walk that fine line anyway without going too far towards the GEEKDOM/TREKKIE Darkside lol

Anonymous said...

I just watched this episode again.

First, in addition to Ben wearing a parka, it appears as if he was waking up and that you could see his breath. Further evidence that he came from some place really cold.

Second, I didn't latch on to Widmore calling Ben "Benjamin" and "a boy" the first time around. I think this is further evidence that Widmore was on the island before and met Ben as a boy. Remember, if Widmore was behind Dharma, then he would have known the location of the island and more than likely visited it, but what has happened since to prevent him from finding it again? Also, if Widmore has been to the island before, it would help to explain why he was so interested in the Black Rock log, if he knew that the Black Rock was on the island from first hand knowledge.

Another thing that has always puzzled me is the Dharma food drops. I know I am really focused on the time issues on this show, but if the island is able to be in the past, present, and future all at once or to move between them, then that might be one explanation as to why food drops keep coming from the sky, especially since the Dharma people have been purged and I doubt the Others are communicating to the company of the people they killed.

Widmore also tells Ben that he knows "what" Ben is. Miles also said the same thing when he was trying to extort Ben for 3.2 million. Interesting that they both used the word "what" instead of "who".

-Addict

Anonymous said...

Mike,

I am a HUGE fan of the show, but I know that ABC has lost ratings during the last two years with the show. I can't speak for all of the viewers who have stopped watching, but some people got hooked on the show on the concept of being plane wrecked on an island in the middle of nowhere and got turned off to the sci-fi aspects of the show. I think the people who stopped watching are crazy because this is one of the most intriguing and innovative shows on TV.

I think that the fine line the writers are always aware of is that they have to slowly answer some of the sci-fi questions that they raise to keep from alienating the non sci-fi audience while still keeping the hard core sci-fi fans intigue with the "how is that possible" scenarios.

-Addict

Mike V. said...

I noticed the Widmore comments to Ben as well and thought the same. Also interesting on the "WHAT" you are comments.

Yeah...I've read some critic comments of how LOST was always a CULT show disguised as something bigger. The 1st season was definitely the most mass appealing. But I've also read that while the ratings have gone down, that the core audience has been with the show the whole way. But since that 1st season they've introduced streaming video, itunes downloads, people wait for the DVDs to watch all in one sitting ,etc... Seems like a cop out of sorts...but especially when the show gets these 10:00 timeslots, people are watching on DVR delay and dowloading or watching online..etc... but there are no doubt that some of the viewers are gone forever because it was not the show they thought it would be. I know Matthew Fox has made comments like "good riddance" to fans like that lol Because well...this show was never for them. You have to admit though...even 14 million a week plus downloads, dvrs and streaming is a pretty sizeable audience and far beyond a CULT Show that does not worry about alienating the masses. They'll tell their story that they wanted to tell, but I think they won't get too crazy on us. And I think the confused fans that have stuck with it this long, will continue to stick because of all they invested.

I know i'm making no sense. But hey...I love the show too and I tend to find all kinds of ways to justify anything they do! lol

Clavis said...

Hi, You may find a proposal for the translation of the hyeroplphs at Ben's door at:
http://movv.org/2008/04/27/lost-perdidos-s4e09-%e2%80%9cthe-shape-of-things-to-come%e2%80%9d-spoilers/

Anonymous said...

Mike,

Great blog. Do you know next week focuses on?

Anonymous said...

Sorry, typo. Do you know WHO is focused on (flashback/forward) next week? What about the rest of the season?

I'm thinking we haven't seen a Claire episode in a while. Also Sawyer and Locke should be due for an update.

Mike V. said...

thanks for the compliments! I think I heard next week is a jack episode which I think we also need to see! How DOD he become bearded suicidal jack? Maybe this will fill us in. I have heard there will be a Locke episode as well! I guess we shall see!

Mike V. said...

looks like typos are contagious! Lol I meant did not DOD crazy phone!

Clay said...

Mike,

Did a little research:

Next week: "Something Nice Back Home" - Jack

"Cabin Fever" - Locke

"There's No Place Like Home" - TBA 3 Part Finale.

Not sure about next week. Jack episodes have been hit and miss with me. Looks like we'll wait 2 weeks to get anything definative on Jacob. Then with the finale, will we get more information on Henry Gale? Just going with the obvious reference to Wizard of Oz. Will this be when the 6 get off the island?

-Clay

Mike V. said...

Thanks for the updates Clay. Yeah, I guess I had read all the same stuff you had. Hard for me to remember that we only had 3 episodes before the Finale begins lol So Jack and Locke...and then "No Place Like Home" I would agree that this is when the Oceanic 6 go home and possibly when we get more Henry Gale dirt. Who knows? Maybe they'll even throw in the Rousseau backstory and Black Rock backstory into things. That's just getting a little too greedy for season 4 though. Of course, they are calling it an EPIC Finale! we'll see.

As for Jack-centric stories. I would agree, the Bai-Ling storyline was probably the worst ever. And some of his other stories have been questionable. But I've always been a fan of the main character, stuck with him through the WHINEY times lol And his season 3 finale performance was uncanny and opened up the door for many great stories ahead. I'm assuming it would be a flash forward, and I'm thinking they'll have some good info to divulge to us.

Of course, it could be just me defending the show I love again! lol

MJ said...

Loved "Austrailia key to the whole game'. LOL

Interesting how Ben threw up after waking up in the desert. Afteraffect of the time-travel, or affect from being shot.

they never do explain WHY Ben is in tunisia. He sees Sayid on tv then goes to Iraq - but they did not reveal why he is in Tunisia to beging with.

John MUST live and only Hurley can find the cabin, and only Jacob can help them - all very intriguing statments.

Keamy ??? Did not this guy tell Sayid and Des that his name was Kearney ??

Interesting that we have now had Sayid and Hurley being watched by someone - but no mention of this by Jack or Kate, yet !

I also considered that Ben had Nadia killed just to get Sayid on board. Why would Widmore kill Nadia - what would be his reason? Ben was totally smirky over the fact that Sayid thinks he just came up with the idea on his own to go after Widmore and his goons. So yeah - Ben totally manipulated Sayid.

Miles being 'surprised' that the guys from the boat are soldiers and not security guards ? I don't think so !

Regarding the Morse Code, besides the capt of a boat we now know that there are ex-military on board - so there are several persons who could know morse. Interestingly I questioned why a geeky little physacist would know morse !

Loved the Ben cave ! But why did Ben not release smokey before Keamy shot Alex ?? My only guess is that he did not believe Keamy would shoot due to these rules ! But then again - Ben went out of his way to state that he knows just what Keamy is capable of !

Widmore's statement that Ben will never 'find' Penny is highly interesting. How can Widmore have hidden her?

Someone posted that Claire might be in the coffin. At first I thought no since Jack hinted that the person was neither family nor friend. But - got to thinking - future Jack is really weird about Aaron ! So a good possiblity.

I'm not wondering if the coffin resident is Sayid or Des ! We just found out that Sayid was living in LA. Niether have family in the US. But I go back to the Kimmel interview where he asks if the person in the coffin is from the island ans what the answer was. Hmmmm !

Mike V. said...

For anyone other then Ben or Michael...I still go back to Kate's "why would I go to the funeral?" comment. It's a really big deal in my opinion. But again, because of Hurley's "GOOD" comment to Sun when asking if anyone else was coming....it kinda raises a question of Kate's "Why would I go to the funeral" comment. hmmmmm only a month more to debate this! lol

Keamy definitely said he was "keamy" in that first episode. I know because I wrote it as KEE MEE in the blog lol


my thought on Ben being in tunisia is that to get off the island this is one of the places that it places you....which is why the polar bear was there too. I don't know if he actually had any business in tunia as much as he was trying to ESCAPE something on the island (i.e. the gunshot wound/cut)

yeah that all makes sense with the Morse Code after everyone clarified! lol

I think i forgot to mention in the blog that comment about Ben saying Locke MUST survive. I think someone had mentioned though this is probably because Ben has had a falling out with Jacob. So Locke and Hurley are the keys.

and yes...i am very intrigued with these RULES! What IS that all about? lol And while we did a lot of anaylsis on the game of RISK...i don't think any of us bothered to mention the obvious one that Locke was playing Risk in his first flashback ever (you know when we didn't know he was in a wheelchair until the end lol)

whew..think that's all i have for now!

Anonymous said...

I love the comment that Austrailia is the key to everything concerning Risk. Anyone who has played this game a lot knows that Austrailia is the least valuable continent and is basically a dead end (only one way in and one way out, which could be an interesting theory, lol). I wonder if Hurley's character added this line in the same way he decided want to paint in the mental institution.

Maybe reading too much into the Risk game, but it seemed as if Hurley was losing. Interesting since he has been very lucky in everything from ping-pong to horseshoes to getting the van started, etc. I can't remember Sawyer beating him at anything, but he did beat him for control of Siberia.

Maybe this is a sign of Hurley's luck changing for the worse? Could Hurley be the one in the coffin? He is depressed and feeling very guilty in the flash forward. He has also had a falling out (or so it seems) with everyone else except Sun in the flash forward as well, which could possibly explain Jack's comment of neither family nor friend. I know that the producers have said something to the effect that Hurley's character will be the first to know who is in the coffin. Possibly literal foreshadowing?

I know that this Hurley theory in the coffin doesn't fit with the words from the newspaper article that Jack was reading on the plane, but I have read that the article was just a prop and not specifically written to correspond with the show. Has anyone else heard of this?

-Addict

Mike V. said...

didn't read all of your post yet addict but don't forget WALT beat Hurley at Backgammon in season 1...but I think this was more to do with Walt's "special power" more than anything lol

Mike V. said...

hmmm Hurley is someone I never considered but the facts do seem to fit. I guess then it would matter what order that all of these Flash Forwards occur because remember Hurley apologizes to Jack in his flash forward and Jack says "water under the bridge man"....but yeah...if hurley was going crazy and Jack began to realize what happened to hurley (after the falling out)....then Kate's comment of "why would I go to the funeral" makes perfect sense. especially since she was still hadn't caught the "island fever" bug that Jack had caught.

hmmmmm very interesting. of course, if people are going to argue over the size of the coffin again...then definitely Hurley wouldn't fit in there! lol

never heard anything about the newspaper clipping being just a prop. but it could be true..it's happened before. (kinda like them using 2005 or 2006 currency in a flashback that happened way before 2004 lol)

good theory even if it turns out to be false. that totally would be unexpected if Hurley was in the coffin lol

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I know that Michael or even Ben makes more sense, but I got to believe that after a year's wait, that it is going to be a HUGE OHHHH, and well Hurley would fit, lol. I have read that we aren't supposed to make to much from the size of the coffin because of all of the weird angles they shot that episode with, but who knows for sure.

I am convinced (for now, lol) that it is someone who has been to the island. As I have stated before, I think it would be interesting if it was someone who has already died on the island (just to throw even more time elements into this whole thing, lol), Aaron, or now Hurley. I think Hurley would be the most realistic of the three, but I am hoping that none of the Oceanic 6 is in there, although I am sure that they could be in several episodes of "past scenes".

-Addict

Anonymous said...

Random (not likely, but who knows for sure, lol) theories:

What if Ben's mother had been to the island before, but left in time to give birth? What if Ben, left to be raised by others (the Others) grows up to do "evil"? To take it one step further, what if Widmore is Ben's real father (in an ode to Star Wars kind of way)?

Could Aaron and/or Ji-Yeon be the potential next players for control of the island?

-Addict

MJ said...

Hmm Hurley is interesting for the coffin ! But againg the answer Team Darlton gave in the Kimmel interview makes me feel we are all wrong. LOL. Why would they say that the fans won't feel like 'who's that' if it's any of our previous guesses.

Cuse: You will know who's in the coffin before the season is over, and it will not be like, "Who's that person?"
Lindelof: The only people you can rule out, based on what you saw in last year's finale, are Kate and Jack.

Dang ! I would have laid money down that the name was Kearney ! Oh well.

And great catch that Locke was playing Risk in his flashback. Totally forgot that tidbit.

Anonymous said...

mj,

"It will not be like, 'Who's that person?'"

This means that IT IS someone we are familiar with, NOT some new person.

-Addict

Mike V. said...

1 2nd the Addict's last comment lol It's someone we know. I cannot believe we've been debating this Coffin thing for almost a year now! lol

I think any answer we get is going to be anti-climatic to actually debating it. Kinda like any answers we eventually will get to the mysteries behind the entire show lol

Anonymous said...

Has there been any talk relative to the title of episode 4-9 "The Shape of Things to Come"?

I looked it up on Wiki....there was a TON of Arab history and then I ran into one little entry that said that HG Wells used Basra as the city that became the capital of the world nation in his book "The Shape of Things to Come". The book is also about a World Council of scientists taking over...the world I guess. SO, when I saw that Widmore and Ben know each other and even have/had some kind of agreement about the way things should be run (ie. the "rules")....I thought that maybe they are part of some kind of world council (like NATO or the UN) that runs the world in the future, and there are accords and rules just like now, but with the island and ownership of the island figuring into the equation somehow.

Whatcha think Mike?

Mike V. said...

interesting thoughts on the title, but I guess my thoughts are sometimes a title is just a title lol and "The shape of things to come" was telling us that this episode was setting up some "new rules" for the show and setting up some major plotlines that the show will follow for the remainder of this season and the rest of the show. But you never know!

btw...here's a good interview with the producers around the "SCIENCE/FAITH" aspects of LOST. The 2008 version of the conversation you might say lol (seems to change a bit each season lol)



DARLTON INTERVIEW

Mike V. said...

well them being focused on strictly "CONSCIOUSNESS" time travel and the following comment:

"DL: Here's the scoop for Popular Mechanics: According to the rules of our show, a communication between sat phones is not affected by temporal distortion, but if you were to send a radio broadcast and/or a telegraph message, it would be affected by temporal distortion. That's the scoop for Popular Mechanics and Popular Mechanics only, and it will make a lot more sense after you've seen the first episode back. "

makes me rethink a lot of what happened in this past episode with Freighter DOC and Ben's FLASH venture lol

But the particle accelerator stuff very interesting too!

Anonymous said...

Yeah, obviously, the person on the other end of the sat phone is lying to the Losties about the Doc being alive. That should be settled once and for all.

I know that the writers choose their words very carefully and I am thinking maybe the comment "In this case" preceeding the "consciousness" comment only pertains to Desmond. Otherwise, if not, then the only remaining explanation to Ben appearing in the desert with a parka on and frost vapor coming out of his mouth is worm hole theory or portals.

I see no way that Ben is wandering around the desert in a parka holding his breath since he was last in a very cold climate so that he can emit frost vapor out of his mouth when his consciousness decides to time travel, lol.

I am also happy to see that they try to incorporate the science of real life to support what is going on in the show, for the most part at least.

-Addict

Anonymous said...

Just had another thought, and maybe they will use the particle accelerator to help "support" it, but all of the time travel type stuff going on in this show cannot be strictly consciousness based. The Orchid video proves that two rabbits of the same rabbit can exist at the same time with the second one appearing out of nowhere.

I find the particle acceleration comments interesting because this could be used as a basis of "splitting" the larger item (usually an atom or particle) into smaller pieces which makes me wonder if it is possible to separate a rabbit (or people) into more than one part (multiple copies or at least two) to help explain how some of the time travel-esque type elements are occuring on the show.

If this is true, then the particle acceration would account for the high levels of electromagnetism needed to cause consciousness time travel and if it is possible for people to be "split" into pieces, then the consciousness can safely travel between the "pieces" as long as the person involved has a constant.

One last thought for now, the pieces may be consistently split to the same part of the world. Hence, Ben and the polar bear ending up in Tunisia.

Mike, with theories like this one, I am doing my best to keep your post comment total and website hits growing, lol.

-Addict

cdstedman said...

”Yeah, obviously, the person on the other end of the sat phone is lying to the Losties about the Doc being alive. That should be settled once and for all.”

Did you mean “other end of the telegraph message?” If so I don’t think they were lying. What they’re saying is if you use the sat phone you’re talking in real time (which they would be lying) between the island and the freighter. But if you use Morse code on a telegraph message it is susceptible to temporal distortion which I take as the freight could have received the message in the future or the past. And in this case they received it in the past when the Dr was still alive. Just like when Sayid fixed that old radio Hurley found and picked up an old radio station. Sayid said it could have been bouncing in the atmosphere but it could have gone through the temporal distortion from the past and just than reach them on the island.

As for your particle acceration theory, I like it. It sounds a lot like my Prestige theory in the first post on the page. lol

Mike V. said...

Yeah..gotta agree with stedman on the SAT Phone Morse Code stuff. I think, based on what the producers stated in that interview..that the message may have been sent to a point in time where the Doc was fine. And they made reference to Radio Broadcasts to acknowledge the hurley/sayid conversation when they heard the Glenn Miller radio broadcast from the 1930's i believe? (i think i just repeated CDSTEDMAN, but I wrote it before reading his lol)

But yeah, I had the same thoughts with the Particle Accelerator...I think that has very much to do with what happened to Ben and him appearing in the desert. Whether it's time related...I guess we have yet to see. But him confirming it's 2005 still makes me think it IS time related... But at the same time, i still wonder how far they're really going to take this time stuff with the show in general before they confuse a lot of people! I guess we'll see!

No problem Addict, I knew that interview would generate discussion, that's why I posted it! lol

Mike V. said...

ooh just thought of something else...if the message WAS sent to the past...it could've been sent to George Minkowski which would settle all my questions about who would respond in Morse Code if George was dead.

I know I know!!! There were probably several people that knew it. But if it was the past...then I could see it working out this way. And we might even catch the other end of that conversation in someone else on the freighter's flashback this season or the next!

MJ said...

Addict :

Agree - it's someone we're familiar with but not an obvious or big name person. My comment before the quote was meant to come across as why would the producers make a statement "it's not someone that we will go who's that' about if the person in the coffin is Hurley or Michael, Claire, etc etc.

I just felt it was a hint that we knwo the person - but they are not a main character.

Anonymous said...

I guess that I must be wrong, but I considered the telegraph between the sat phones to be "communication" between the phones. The only way for the freightor to communicate in morse code back to the island would have been through another sat phone. Remember Frank's comment that they can only communicate with other sat phones?

I read it as direct communciation between sat phones is not affected by temporal distortion, but if you were to try to transmit a radio signal or a general telegraph, then it would be affected by temporal distortaion.

Why didn't they just say phone call instead of communication.

Thoughts?

-Addict

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

Yeah, I now see after re-reading your first post how our two theories are similar. You lost me with the prestige type machine and the word clone the first time around, but now I see that you said the clone may be able to be thrown through time.

-Addict

Anonymous said...

Questions: now with the temporal distortion comment made by the writers, does anyone else agree with me that Penny and Desmond may have been talking to each other from two different time periods?

Also, does anyone think that the consciousness time travel comment by the writers only pertains to Desmond or to everyone who time travels?

-Addict

Anonymous said...

Reason why Widmore and Ben can't kill each other: they are each other's constant during their continuous battle with each other as they each time travel (either whole body or consciousness only).

-Addict

Anonymous said...

Another discussion question:

If people are split into two different time periods during particle acceleration, if they die in one time period, then do they die in both or do they just lose the memory stream from the part that died.

I am guessing that if their consciousness is in the part that dies, then they would die, but if some how they can switch to the other part, then they would continue to live.

Maybe that is why Widmore and Ben can't kill each other because at any one time there are at least two of each of them.

Do you like this theory better than them being each other's constant theory?

Maybe both are true, because even if they aren't each other's constant, I have to believe after what happened to Desmond and based on what Faraday said, a consciousness time traveler needs a constant.

-Addict

cdstedman said...

”does anyone else agree with me that Penny and Desmond may have been talking to each other from two different time periods?”

I still think they were in the same time. Sayids comments plus the calendar and Penny didn’t dispute his call not being on the right date. And remember Desmond was off the island (outside the temporal distortion) so the call wasn’t disrupted.

I like the Widmore and Ben constant thought.

cdstedman said...

I had a different take on the particle accelerator comment. What if instead of the accelerator being responsible for time travel-esque elements by splitting atoms. What if as a result of splitting those atoms DARMA created the smoke monster?

Disclaimer, most of this is over my head but I’ll only explain the theory in simple terms and only in relevance to the show so nobody critic to hard based on the science of it *cough*Addict*cough* lol.

One of the results that scientist are hoping to find by smashing partials together is the Higgs field or the God partial.

“Higgs field, in theory, is what gives fundamental particles mass. He offers an analogy: Different fundamental particles, he says, are like a crowd of people running through mud. Some particles, like quarks, have big boots that get covered with lots of mud; others, like electrons, have little shoes that barely gather any mud at all. Photons don't wear shoes—they just glide over the top of the mud without picking any up. And the Higgs field is the mud.”

What if DARMA’s accelerator was successful and they found the Higgs field, instead of the analogy of it being mud it looked like black smoke. But due to the strong magnetic and mystical properties of the island it became sentient. It might even be able to channel recently dead consciousness and recreate them in physical form (Yemi, Charlie, Christian ECT...) But it was unstable and they weren’t able to completely control it and it escaped. The sonic fence was the only thing that protected them when they couldn’t control it. Sounds crazy but I like it. What do you think?

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

You crack me up, lol. I have stopped waiting for you to admit that you shouldn't have been arguing real life possiblities for your slow motion theory, lol.

We are in agreement more often than not. I don't dislike your theory involving the Higgs field or God's particle, but I would be surprised if the writers' master plan involves something that scientific and hard to explain, even partially, to the general public.

I still think the particle accelerator is responsible for the time travel issues going on, but take your thought of the smoke monster one step further, that it is the unwanted by product of the time travel.

I still think that what we have seen so far makes more sense if there is straight time travel of body and mind (assuming that the consciousness time travel comment by the writers only pertains to Desmond's episode in "The Constant"). Otherwise, the following may still hold true if there is a by-product from using the worm holes, but I like the particle acceleration theory much better with straight mind/body involvment. Otherwise, each time people time travel there would be an extra one of them roaming the Earth, unless the duplicate is killed each time with the consciousness escaping back to the original each time.

If that is the case, then I think each time someone time travels, a small part of them is left behind adding to the smoke monster. Maybe this is why Ben can summon it? He has time traveled enough times that he should have some influence on it (with enough bits of him making it up).

Taking it even further, if Yemi "time traveled" to the island, there has to be some explanation how his plane made it to the Pacific, then maybe a small part of him also makes up the smoke monster allowing it to take his form.

What do you think?

-Addict

cdstedman said...

” I would be surprised if the writers' master plan involves something that scientific and hard to explain, even partially, to the general public.

I agree with it being hard to explain, but they don’t need to explain it in detail. All they need is a flashback to the island with the accelerator running, there’s an explosion and the smoke monster starts spraying out. A red shirt scientist screams “It’s the Higgs Field! Run for your life!!” The general public will buy it and we Lost junkies will search the internet to find out what a Higgs field is.

lol

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

In regards to your Penny/Desmond in the same time or not post, I have a different take on the freightor's time. I think it is close enough to the island to be affected by it. I think this is why people on the freightor are going crazy, even though most of them have never been to the island (that we know of at least). This would also tie into the helicopter issue mentioned by Mike, the Doc's comment that the freightor is moving, and the other crew member's comment that they "were" in the Pacific the last time they knew because they made port in Fuji.

I also think that may be how Penny is "safe" from Ben's retaliation, if she is in the past or future in relation to the island out of his current knowledge and hidden from Ben's normal travels.

Final thought for now: it makes more sense to me if the island overall is somehow in the future. This would explain how Ben gathers all of his information: either by traveling to the past to gather it or his computers/databases already contain this information because it has already happened.

-Addict

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

Do you like my thoughts on bits of people who have time traveled making up the smoke monster and how this could account for Yemi's appearance, Ben's calling of the smoke monster, etc.?

This could also account for Kate's horse (if the plane and its occupants time traveled somehow to the island during the crash), the appearance by Goodwyn's wife in the jungle during "The Other Woman", and ties into other people's ideas that Jack's father may have previously been to the island, or my thought that at the time of the crash, Jack's father was still alive in a different time, why whispers accompany the smoke monster, etc.

-Addict

cdstedman said...

Yeah, it’s possible people’s essence of sorts after time travel make up the smoke monster. I’m a bit confused on how the horse time traveled though??

Anonymous said...

Oops, forgot to explain that one. I was thinking that if the plane and its occupants time traveled to the island during the crash, then maybe a bit of Kate including some of her consciousness became part of the smoke monster allowing it to take the form of her horse from her little bit's memory.

Also, since we know that there is strong electromagnetism on the island and some of it was possibly released by Desmond's failure to enter the numbers, I was thinking this could account for the plane's time travel before it crashes.

Thoughts?

-Addict

cdstedman said...

All good thoughts but I get the feeling that it's to much time travel. It's more likely that they keep it to certain members of the cast. Desmond, Ben, Daniel, may be Charles and Penny and in communications between the island. They still have a lot of scifi’ish elements to introduce, Orchid station, smoke monster origin, Jacob, island origin. If time travel gets to extreme in addition of these it will take away from the character stories and might lose some people that watch the show.

Anonymous said...

For now, it is the only theory that ties together the smoke monster (including the whispers), time travel, electromagnetism, particle acceleration, etc. so I really like it, but then I put it out there, lol.

The only other explanation that I can think of for the smoke monster is that every time people die on the island, they become a small piece of the smoke monster because the island exists in all time periods. Then, when need be the smoke monster can manifest itself as any one of its parts. This theory, however, doesn't account for Jack's dad being seen on the island or Kate's horse or why Ben can summon it but still needs protection from it, etc. I guess these can Jack's dad, the horse, and Yemi can be attributed to hallucinations, but why not more by the same people and other characters? Remember, I don't think Charlie was a hallucination to Hurley because another patient saw him.

-Addict

Anonymous said...

X

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

You never cease to make me laugh. Once again, I feel like you are all turned around (like one of the scenes from "Through the Looking Glass", lol) in the lack of logic concerning parts of your writings in two of your latest posts. You wrote:

"A red shirt scientist screams 'It’s the Higgs Field! Run for your life!!' The general public will buy it and we Lost junkies will search the internet to find out what a Higgs field is."

and

"If time travel gets to [sic]extreme in addition of [sic] these it will take away from the character stories and might lose some people that watch the show."

Most people have heard of time travel or seen enough shows/movies involving it to have a general grasp of it and how it might work, but most people haven't heard of the Higg's field or God's particle, let alone be capable of coming close to understanding it.

-Addict

cdstedman said...

Addict you make me laugh to. Are you just looking for stuff to pick a fight over lol?

There was a “lol” at the end of my red shirt scientist comment so I was kidding about the writers being able to explain it to the public that simply.

And I stand by my time travel gets to extreme comment. One of the biggest complaints people give for not watching Lost is it’s to complicated. The real story of Lost is the characters not the mythology of the island. Why risk losing more viewers by making it more complicated with time traveling horses?

Anonymous said...

Mike,

First off, I apologize for the following post because I have overall enjoyed this site and contributing to it. I know in all of the time that I have been coming to this site, comments have never been as high since I started posting (probably because I post so much, lol).

cdstedman,

First off, I never said that Kate's horse time traveled. I said that it could be part of the smoke monster affect due to time travel. If you read the posts slowly or out loud, maybe you would understand them better. Maybe you can get a friend (probably not, maybe just pay someone) to help you with the bigger words, lol.

You are arrogant beyond belief. You don't possess the humility or grace to admit when you are wrong. Instead you change the subject or go silent. Your typos are constant and very annoying (try to learn the difference between "to", "too", and "two" and "there" and "their", just to name a few).

You argue till no end about slow motion travel and bring up God's particle and Higg's field theory, but continue to think that time travel theory is too complicated for "Lost" viewers?

Your last ludicrous argument is that "Lost" is more about the characters than the mythology of the island. The things that make "Lost" such a great TV show is that it has mythology, mystery, instead of just character stories like so many other TV shows.

As for being too complicated, I think the writers of "Lost" would tell the viewers who think that to go watch a sitcom instead. They have a story to tell and aren't going to dumb it down for the non-loyal viewers.

What little respect I had left for you after you failing to acknowledge your mistake of continuing to argue the real life possiblity of slow motion time travel in regards to the helicopter flight, is now completely gone.

I no longer think you are acting like an immature, egotistical moron. I now think you are an IMMATURE, EGOTISTICAL, MORON.

-Addict

Shanna said...

Wow, things are getting catty over here!!!

I would like to say that I believe the characters keep me watching. I get lost in the mythology and crazy time traveling very often, but I have to see it through to the end to find out what happens with these characters. The producers have even stated that they see it as a character driven show.

Just my two cents again...I won't try to debate anything else because I would just sound like moron myself. Oh, the shame! Lol

cdstedman said...

I could dissect your post and we could go on for 300 posts but that’s only fun during long Lost breaks. We have new episodes that are far more interesting than arguing with you. But I will make one comment that I think is important.

”Your last ludicrous argument is that "Lost" is more about the characters than the mythology of the island. The things that make "Lost" such a great TV show is that it has mythology, mystery, instead of just character stories like so many other TV shows.”

I said the “real story” is about the characters, not the only story. Yes it has mythology, mystery, action, romance, life and death, but the real backbone of the show is the characters. How can you argue against this? It’s not “ludicrous.” Without the interesting, flawed and creative characters the show would be nothing, even with a smoke monster flying around.

cdstedman said...

Thanks Shanna, And don't be afraid to keep on commenting, we want to hear what everyone has to say here. This isn't just the cdstedman/Addict show.

Shanna said...

Well, I just like to enjoy the show without all the analyzing. I talk to Mike about it just after it airs and then my critique is done until the next episode. I'm not one who remembers every little detail from season to season. It's great that you all enjoy it so much though. And if you're all debating it with Mike, it takes some of the pressure off me! ;-)

Anonymous said...

shanna,

I am not saying that the characters aren't important. My point is that the mythology, sci-fi, time travel elements that the writers have incorporated into the show are fundamanetal in telling the characters' stories. These elements are what really gives "Lost" its hook and sets it apart from other TV dramas.

For instance, the phone call between Desmond and Penny in "The Constant" connected (pun intended) with a lot of viewers, but it is important to remember that the writers still incorporated the sci-fi and mysterious elements such as time travel in relating this character love story.

If this show was only about the characters, then it would have probably been about a plane crash on an island with the characters interacting and trying to survive until being rescued.

I doubt the writers are concerned too much about whether or not people can understand everything because they know their loyal viewers will continue to watch until the writers are able to unveil the mechanisms for how everything happened during the remaining seasons.

This is supported by the lower viewing audience now than when the show first started. Since that first season, more and more sci-fi elements have been introduced including time travel and the mention by the producers of particle acceleration. Something that deals with cutting edge physics, and not found on a character driven only show. My point is that the writers continue to forge ahead with the story the way they want to tell it (including sci-fi elements) regardless that the viewing audience has actually decreased since the first season.

-Addict

cdstedman said...

You hear that Mike. You’re not putting enough pressure on Shanna here. I want you to hound her about the show until she’s so diehard she downloads a pic of a Risk game board to see if Australia really is the key to the whole game. lol

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

Read my last post. If you can't see that the sci-fi elements that the writers have introduced into "Lost" is what really sets it apart on TV, then you really are lost.

I can see why you don't choose to argue with me. My undergraduate students can argue circles around you. My graduate students coined a new term for an idiotic false assumption based argument. They call it a "stedman", lol.

-Addict

Shanna said...

And I wasn't trying to start a debate with you because, as I stated, I am ill equipped for that. I know that Lost is a sci-fi, freaky, weird show. I never said that it wasn't. I am simply saying that without the characters I probably would have lost interest around the during those first six episodes of season 3. But at this point, I have to see what happens to all of them. The show is not the show that I started watching in 2004, but I care about the characters so I'll be there til 2010. It's just one girl's opinion, you don't have to agree. ;-)

Shanna said...

Oh, he's well aware that I will never be that obsessed! :-) lol

Mike V. said...

believe me...i've tried! It's a no win situation!

Anyway..in my defense, Shanna is the one that pointed out to me Hurley making the "Australia is the key to the whole game" comment lol

Mike V. said...

or maybe that's in HER defense??? lol

Anonymous said...

shanna,

I respect your opinion and know that the character aspects are so good that they keep some people (like yourself) watching even though they are somewhat turned off by all of the sci-fi elements.

The writers, however, decided from the beginning that they weren't going to do a strictly character based show and instead decided to tell the stories of the characters through the use of such elements as time travel.

The writers may have lost some viewers for having the sci-fi elements, but they also gained/kept some as a result of them. What the overall delta is, we will probably never know. See cdstedman how I used "know" instead of "no". You should try it, lol.

-Addict

Anonymous said...

Mike,

I will know definitively next Tuesday, but I have been trying to get a grant approved to sponser your site from our department fund. Nothing too outrageous, but most likely in the range of 5-10K.

The catch would be that you would have to provide a link to a site that discusses the physics used (or sometimes defied) on "Lost". The idea is to use the mass appeal of "Lost" to introduce some physics (simplified as much as possible, lol) to help viewers who don't understand some of the physics being thrown around on the show as well as allow the graduate students opportunities to "show off" their knowledge.

Let me know if you are at all interested or if it is a "lost cause", lol (i.e., I am wasting my time).

-Addict

cdstedman said...

…sigh…

Yes. Lost has a sci-fi element to the show. Just like Boston Legal has a judicial side to it and ER has a medical side to it and CSI has a detective element to it. A lot of shows have different elements to it to set it apart but those elements are not what make the show. Like I said, the human aspect, the fact that we care and are interested in the characters is what makes it a great show. Sci-fi, judicial, medical, and detective elements of a show are just the icing on the cake. Some people are more interested in the icing and that’s ok, there’s nothing wrong with that. But without the Characters being the cake all you have is a goopy mess of icing.

Mike V. said...

Yeah I gotta say that if it wasn't for the characters all of this sci-fi stuff on top wouldn't be too exciting at all. The LOST producers constantly (no pun intended on "The Constant") state that the sci-fi is just the icing on the cake (kudos stedman) of a good character story. And depending on which character they're focusing on in a given week might indicate the level of GEEKNESS that will apply.

Eh I dunno...I'm interested in both sides of the coin though!

Addict- you trying to get me paid? lol Or is this something where you'd like a cut too? lol I'd probably be fine with adding a link on the site as long as I don't have to change the way I blog about the show. Maybe a plug here and there. The blog has been successful on a smaller level (thousand or so hits a week), but I hardly see being able to get sponsored! lol

Keep me posted on what you find out though. Money for the blog would be another case of ICING on the cake! lol

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

I don't even know if Mike is interested, but you are making it harder and harder for me come Tuesday to get approval for a grant to support this site. You argue fundamentally wrong, in terms of physics, theories till you are "blue in the face", but at the same time all but say that the physics are irrelevant to the show. My colleagues aren't going to want to fund a grant where physics are irrelevant.

Regardless, look at the background of the producers and tell me if they decided to do a character show first and add sci-fi elements second or the other way around. Use your brain, if you have one, lol.

In my proposal, I referenced this site, which no doubt the chair and other professors will be viewing. Once again, you are being a MORON. I guess it is only natural that you would continue on with "stedman's".

-Addict

cdstedman said...

Careful Mike. You disagreed with Addict so there goes your 10k. lol

Anonymous said...

Mike,

Sponsorship might be the wrong word. No change in your blog. Just a link off to the side and mentions if you want to the site when physics are brought up or when people want more information on the physics contained in the show.

It is a win-win if some viewers want to learn more about the physic references in the show while allowing our graduate students random theories to simplify for the general audience. It really is a good chance for the students to reinforce their knowledge by coming up with simplified ways to explain complex theories.

-Addict

Mike V. said...

Ahhh but I also said that I personally am a fan of BOTH the Character Drama and the Sci-Fi...

I mean my favorite episodes to date include both The Constant and Flashes Before your Eyes. both heavy on the sci-fi

But...my all-time favorite episode...the episode when I knew this show was going somewhere spectacular was "All the Best Cowboys have Daddy Issues" when Charlie was hung and Jack saved him....that was a perfect blend of character drama (tear jerking moments) and mystery (our first HATCH siting, Ethan as the mysterious violent OTHER) and I knew then that this show was something really special.

So, I don't know what I just proved by saying all of that. But even with the 2 Desmond episodes, even with all the sci-fi time travelness....i would not have been so invested had it not been for the spectacular Penny/Desmond tale that tied it all together! lol

Anonymous said...

Another "stedman". Even with your "lol" you are all but campaigning for more "no" votes on my proposal.

Maybe the amount doesn't mean anything to you cdstedman, but it is more than a drop in the bucket and should be tax free.

-Addict

Mike V. said...

Well, I'm kinda interested in the science behind LOST as well, so I would have no problem putting the link on the website. Keep me posted on what you find out!

Thanks for your initial investigation!

cdstedman said...

By your undergraduate students comment I assume you’re a teacher? And you referenced this site in the proposal to the chair and other professors? Man, I hope you have tenor Addict, because if they read some of your comments here they’re going to take a closer look at you classes. Who knows how many students you call IMMATURE, EGOTISTICAL, MORONS who don’t agree with everything you say.

Anonymous said...

Mike,

Class is about to start, but let me know if you are interested. Keep your fingers crossed and asking cdstedman to think a little bit before all of his post wouldn't hurt, either, lol.

I noticed that neither one of you commented on:

"Regardless, look at the background of the producers and tell me if they decided to do a character show first and add sci-fi elements second or the other way around."

-Addict

Shanna said...

Addict,

I know I'm really going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing you're a Physics professor. I could have used your help last spring with the elementary physics class I was required to take. My work in that class would prove to you that I am frequently befuzzled by the sci-fi aspect of LOST! Lol

Mike V. said...

i believe damon was wearing a Star Wars t-shirt the day he met J.J. Abrams so yeah they're all about the sci-fi. But even Star Wars (well..the original 3) still had a dramatic core! lol It's really essential to ANY good story.

I'm interested Addict...so just keep me posted in what you find out! But if you don't have tenor yet...maybe alto or soprano will work better! lol (sorry stedman, couldn't resist! I believe the word is TENURE!)

Are we even talking about LOST anymore? Anyone excited for the Jack episode tonight? There was a DOC Jensen article today...i would've posted a link to it but he went all "CRAZY DOC JENSEN" again so I felt it pointless. lol

cdstedman said...

A character show hands down. I don’t know how many different ways to tell you.

”For instance, the phone call between Desmond and Penny in "The Constant" connected (pun intended) with a lot of viewers, but it is important to remember that the writers still incorporated the sci-fi and mysterious elements such as time travel in relating this character love story.”

Lets use your example of Desmond and Penny and see if the element of sci-fi is first over characterization.

The story of Desmond and Penny. Two people meet outside a monastery and fall in love. One is poor the other well off due to a rich disapproving father. They move in and plan to get married but Desmond gets cold feet and break it off. He joins the military and is sent to prison. After prison they reconcile (somehow, we haven’t seen yet) and Desmond loves her so much he has to regain his honor by entering a race around the world (??). Crashed on an island with sci-fi elements both Desmond’s and Penny’s love for each other grows due to being separated and Penny searches for years for him. After the hatch implosion Desmond’s conciseness is thrown to the past where he makes the mistake again of not marrying Penny. They are finally reunited by telephone on the freighter and confess they’re love again for each other. That’s their story.

Yes there are sci-fi elements to the story but they don’t make the story. Take out the sci-fi elements and there is still a story there. Take Desmond and Penny out and you don’t have much of a story. Replace them with Rose and Bernard, the story is different but due to the characters that love each other it’s still a good story.

You say look at the background of the producers and I’ll throw the writes in their too. Some have sci-fi backgrounds, Brian K. Vaughan is a comic writer of Y The Last Man and it has sci-fi elements but it’s still the story of the character Yorick Brown.

cdstedman said...

100th post!!

"(sorry stedman, couldn't resist! I believe the word is TENURE!)

Damn you spellcheck! DAMN YOU TO HELL!!!

Anonymous said...

shanna,

It is for viewers like you why I want a link to explain some of the physics elements happening on the show.

-Addict

Shanna said...

Lol...nice. It certainly couldn't hurt!

Mike V. said...

Addict, does this website that I'd be linking to exist already?

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

Once again, you fail to realize my point. Yes, the character stories are great and yes without them, all you have is sci-fi elements.

The writers could have done the character stories without all of the sci-fi, but from the very beginning, the "Lost" story had roots in mythology, sci-fi, mystery, etc. The very first episodes had Jack's father appearing on the island after being dead, Locke being able to walk, and something making a lot of noise and knocking down trees in the jungle.

As for some of my theories, yes I do have tenure, I don't try to use real life physics to justify them (UNLIKE YOU).

And as per the norm with your illogical arguments, you are switching sides on the "It's a TV show" argument by assuming that I as a physics professor can't put forth far out theories for a TV show, if only because I am a physics professor.

One of my students told me that I should relate to you an example I share with my classes on the first day. There are five birds sitting in a tree, a man shoots one, so how many are left in the tree. The amatuer answer is four. A more logical way of thinking is to ask first how the bird was shot, for example: sling shot or gun. If by gun, then all the other birds would have flown away. If by sling shot, then physics (size of tree, relationship of birds in closeness to each other, etc.) comes into play. My student, and I have to agree, thinks that you refuse to think outside the box and realize that the answer may not be four. This is where your ego and stubbornness come into play.

As for calling you names, plenty of other people (including Weasel, MJ, Mike, Shanna, etc.) have disagreed with what I have posted on this site, but I haven't called any of them a name or even said that they are acting like a moron. Once again, faulty logic by you to extrapolate my words directed at you to other people without considering the other factors that contributed to me using these words toward you.

The only person that I think is an IMMATURE, EGOTISTICAL, MORON on this site is you.

-Addict

Anonymous said...

Mike,

Good news, I think . . .

The Department Chair doesn't want this grant proposal to take away from the research grants on the docket for discussion next Tuesday, so he had the vote via our interoffice on-line site and the votes are 7-4 in favor of the grant (written as $2,250 for the rest of this year, with $10K for each of the next two years).

Now for the potential problem, one of the older fellows in our department who voted against my proposal has invoked the "embarrassment clause" as grounds to strike down the proposal regardless of the vote. This was seconded by another "no" voter. This basically means that it is up to the Department Chair to allow it to pass or strike it down.

Some of the posts citing potential for embarrassment to our department and university include pastes from cdstedman's rants (both today's and older posts). It is true that he is a frequent poster and doesn't always use logic, but I will try to do my best to persuade the Department Chair.

I wanted this grant to be an option for you once it was already approved and only mentioned it today to try to get cdstedman to shut his trap. In my opinion, his insinuation that you (Mike) have to agree with everything I say or the physics that the university would post on the site linked to your blog in order to receive this grant is the "last straw" that I don't know if I can overcome.

Bottom line is this, I am having lunch with the Department Chair today and will do my best to keep the vote intact. I have really enjoyed your blog and thought this was an "outside the box" way to get people outside the physics world interested in and discussing physics, especially the topics brought up in a hit show like "Lost". Kind of like how "The DaVinci Code" got people talking about religion (not exactly the same I know, but maybe in the same "vein").

-Addict

Shanna said...

Here I go putting my nose where it doesn't belong, but I think that your Department Chair is probably familiar with the Constitution and Freedom of Speech. Without differing opinions, what would be the point of a public forum? Maybe stedman isn't a member of Mensa, but neither am I. And if you find him such an unworthy opponent in your arguments, then why do you continue to debate him?

I don't want to get into an argument with you, but I felt that your last post was a bit out of line.

Anonymous said...

shanna,

I respect your opinion and definitely believe in free speech, but you have to realize that our department isn't going to want to be embarrassed or ridiculed through rants when all we would be doing is trying to explain some of the physics introduced during "Lost" in a simple way.

The same freedom that allows people to say whatever they want on this blog (before Mike chooses to delete it if he deems that necessary, lol), is the same freedom that gives my department (and in this case the Department Chair) the ability to pay money to establish a link to a site discussing the physics component of the show.

-Addict

cdstedman said...

”Some of the posts citing potential for embarrassment to our department and university include pastes from cdstedman's rants (both today's and older posts). It is true that he is a frequent poster and doesn't always use logic, but I will try to do my best to persuade the Department Chair.”

OMG, is anybody else buying this?? If there has been any embarrassing rants it from you Addict. This is just laughable.

If there are four losties in a tree and a smoke monster kills one how many are left? The amateur would say three but I, thinking outside the box say a horse time traveled to the past and killed the parents of the others creating a time paradox so the answer is zero. lol

Come on, anyone that doesn’t think that character development of a show is what makes people care about it is right smack in the middle of the box.

I’m through arguing with this guy. And how’s this for outside the box. I think all this talk about sponsoring the site is garbage. Mike let me know if it goes through and I’ll take it back but as of now I’m going to use the “faulty logic” that Addict is just some 50 year old guy sitting the basement of his parents house in his underwear that can’t take a little criticism and creating a story to try and shut me up.

cdstedman said...

On to other things.

Mike, yes were talking lost. Not to excited about tonight’s episode. I think the flash-forward will be the most interesting. Not worried that Jack will be in any real danger.

Anonymous said...

Mike,

First, the site doesn't exist right now. If my proposal is approved, we could go back and revisit some of the equations seen in Daniel's notebook, on the chalkboard, basics of electromagnetism, how radio waves work, etc. My thought was that the site would be fluid based on the concepts introduced on and/or extrapolated from the show.

Needless to say, it was a fairly short lunch. I haven't heard the official decision yet. It will be posted on our internal site so that everyone gets the decision at the same "time".

I don't think it looks good, but am keeping my fingers crossed.

The biggest hurdle is the implication that we would somehow be paying you to accept the physics that we would put forth on the site when in reality, physics is based in laws of science (such as gravity) which are true given certain parameters.

The other issue is the fact that cdstedman is a frequent poster and hasn't been shy about his distate for me bringing physics into the discussion. If he represents the consensus opinion about bringing physics into the "Lost" discussion, then it really is a moot point.

I did make a case that we cannot control what is written in the blog or the comments section and that this potential ridicule could be outweighed by the good of introducing more of the general public to physics both through your website and by appealing to more people on campus through the use of a hit TV show.

The counter argument was made that I can continue to use some of the concepts on "Lost" as discussion points in my undergraduate classes as well as propose a higher level elective centered around the right and wrong uses of physics in mediums such as "Lost" without using department funds. It was also mentioned that I could provide the same "teaching" opportunities to my graduate students by allowing them to write papers showing how some story lines or theories on shows like "Lost" can be proven or disproven through the laws of physics. Finally, it was stated that we could still appeal to the general public (around campus) by having discussions about "Lost".

This is why I think the final decision will be a "no", but the fact that a decision isn't posted yet leaves a sliver of hope.

I will let you know when I do.

-Addict

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

Keep going, you are making me feel less badly about the looming "no" with each of your posts like your last one referencing me.

I am all in favor of free speech, but couldn't you have given it a rest, at least until a final decision was reached?

And please take a moment to read my last post with the two points of the department isn't comfortable with the implication that we are trying to bribe anyone into accepting the general laws of physics and that if your opinion so often expressed is the general opinion of people who frequent the site, then it is a bad idea to "sponser" it.

I argue with you because it is so easy to see how illogical you are that many of your sentences are missing words or contain typos so bad that they really don't make sense if you read them exactly as written. Is this because you get too worked up about being wrong that you become irrational? Notice how I didn't use "since" and "to" instead of "sense" and "too" in the last two sentences, lol.

-Addict

Anonymous said...

Mike,

It is up to you if you want me to rescind my proposal before a final verdict is rendered. Let me know ASAP.

-Addict

Anonymous said...

cdstedman,

Typcial assumption made by you yet again.

What makes you so sure that I am a man, and not a woman? You never cease to amaze me or my students, lol.

-Addict

Mike V. said...

Addict,

My thoughts are, if anyone is interested in the Sciene Behind LOST and they want to get further eductated, then they will click on the link or they will read the comments that pertain to their interests. But on the 2nd hand, I am not going to make a decision that is going to limit who can post on this blog and what they want to post about. I have always been open to anyone's thoughts on the show which was the entire point of this blog anyway (to share my thoughts and then discuss with other fans of the show their thoughts)

I, like Shanna, don't want to stick my nose where it doesn't belong....but I think you and stedman can each take some blame in the current animosity you guys have towards each other. I believe it all started with the ongoing commentary about Running, Sweating and Drinking Gatorade or something and just became more of a disaster from there! lol

I think you guys can get past this and we can have a nice community of LOST fans that all bring something different to the table lol

Now let's all take back the name calling and move on to bigger and better things...namely..me getting some money! lol

Addict, this sounds like a pipedream at best for this all to play out the way you described. But I'm all for seeing where it goes. So go for it! lol

cdstedman said...

So the only part of the comment you’re going to dispute is the man part? To each his/her own I guess.

With that said I’m now taking the advice of Mike’s “can’t we all get along” post and dropping it.

Anonymous said...

Mike,

I have never nor would I argue for censorship, especially on a blog. I just think that cdstedman could have kept the rants down once I tried to explain what I was trying to do. Instead, he just fanned the fire for the "no" voters on why this whole proposal is a bad idea.

As for this starting with the gatorade comments, I agree. I just can't believe the icon this guy uses, lol. I firmly believe that he didn't like me questioning any of his theories. By his picture, he obviously thinks he is "top dog" and can't handle a guy, or a lady, proving him wrong.

-Addict

Anonymous said...

Oh cdstedman,

You say that you are leaving it alone only after throwing another "jab".

You wrote:

"So the only part of the comment you’re going to dispute is the man part? To each his/her own I guess."

Me pointing out your false assumption was just a follow-up to my previous two posts trying to explain why you weren't helping the situation with all of your posts today.

I can see why you would try to spin it that I was yielding to your "correct (lol, not), manly argument", but once again your logic is flawed. I am sorry that it must bother you even more that a woman can out argue you.

How can you fail to comprehend this?

I go on record right now saying that you won't let this go in the same way that you didn't keep your word to stop posting about your "slow motion" theory.

You may be a man, but in my opinion not a gentleman or a man with any honor.

-Addict

Mike V. said...

I gotcha...lol well there's no need in discussing it any further on the blog lol If anything comes of it you can contact me through the "email me" link on my profile. and then we'll go from there.

I just don't know how you can go wrong with Running Gear and Shades for a Blog Pic though LOL

As for tonight's episode. I'd like to see Jack's transition from having it all together to crazy Jack in the flash forward. Based on Damon's tease in the Doc Jensen article he references how Jack kept talking about his Dad in the present tense in the flash forward and how it's all been tied back to his drug addiction. Well...how did he end up taking the drugs in the first place? Apparently, we will get info on that tonight lol I find it hard to believe it will have anything to do with the stomach pains he's having on the island. But who knows? lol

cdstedman said...

Thanks for the blog pic comment, I knew I liked you for some reason Mike. Lol

I agree the flash-forward will be the most interesting. I think the stomach pains are just to give the beach folks something to do. The real story will be next week with Ben and Locke and Jacob’s cabin. Give me more of that icing. lol

Anonymous said...

Mike,

I am sorry, but the final decision is a "no".

I am sorry for mentioning it or possibly getting your hopes up, but I was trying to "cap" the ammunition that the "no" voters were using to argue against my proposal.

I am sorry that my conflict with cdstedman ultimately helped to prevent you from receiving the grant. I acknowledge my role in the conflict, but point out that I wasn't the only one in the conflict.

I am sorry that I have enjoyed reading your blog so much, but am unable to "get you paid" for your time, effort, and passion.

I am most sorry about the physics. I have read your blog long before I ever posted, but the physics is what really got me interested enough to join the actual discussion. I am sorry that more of your readers and the general public won't be able to have the chance to learn about, understand, and maybe even enjoy the physics that are incorporated into "Lost".

-Addict

Anonymous said...

shanna,

I think you were right that I should probably stop debating with cdstedman. It really isn't a fair debate, when he is so overmatched by a mere woman, lol.

I have come to realize through today's events, both on the blog and on campus, that it really isn't worth trying to reason with an irrational man and I use the word "man" in reference to cdstedman VERY lightly.

-Addict

Anonymous said...

Mike,

I asked the Department Chair if I could quote him on his characterization of cdstedman, and he said "yes", but delicately and discretely.

So he thinks cdstedman is like the final scene ("The Donkey Wheel") of this season with the more derogatory name for the donkey and only the hole part of the wheel needed, lol.

What can I say, we physics professors take physics very seriously, lol.

I hope that is coy enough not to offend anyone too much and blunt enough that cdstedman can get it without having to read it too many times, lol.

I will continue to read your blog, I actually look forward to it, hence my tag name, but will probably post less often.

-Addict

Mike V. said...

Well I tried to bring the peace before it got out of hand, but I guess it was too late lol You guys had made up your mind.

As for the Sponsorship, hey I thought it was a long shot anyway. As much as I could have used the money (would have made a huge dent in this crazy Wedding me and the future mrs. are planning!), I really only had a half of a day to consider it as a 1% probability of happening! lol

But I appreciate you noting the committment it takes to keep this Blog running and my passion for it. I always say that people need to be patient for when the blog will get posted because it's not like I'm getting paid for it! Maybe one day my skills will get recognized and I'll see some money coming my way.

If I'm being honest though, I don't think your school would have benefitted much from putting a link on the blog (not that I'd turn away the money!). As I said, we don't get THAT many hits here. Last season there was a surge of people checking out the blog and it was growing but alas, the season came to an end. Things have leveled off a bit now to a respectable level lol

Anyway...I'm not going to touch the Addict/Stedman war any more than I did. All I will say is, I hope you guys can forgive and forget and then continue to discuss all things LOST!

And I encourage everyone else out there that have been following this war and keeping quiet to get off your butts and start posting YOUR thoughts too! lol

I know there are lots of opinions out there and I only see 3 or 4 regularly posting on this blog! This blog is meant to be a community discussion! lol

I'm sorry also that things didn't work out with the "sponsorship" but I think we're all going to get through this!

And if anyone wants to start sending in donations to the Lost Addicts Blog you just let me know! I'll happily set up a paypal account! lol

Sara said...

Wouldn't it be nice to get paid for being obsessed and talking about TV?? I'd be rich! But then it would be a JOB and probably get just as stressful as everything else we have to do!

Anyway, I'm so in love with Lost...one of the only shows (besides The Office and Law and Order SVU)that makes me cry hysterically, laugh, and get severely creeped out in one episode.

I guess I should just post here about May 1st episode until Mike sets it up? Well ok, I'm going to talk about the episode so if you didn't watch and don't wanna know...STOP!!

So did Bernard say something to Jack about thinking of "something nice back home", which is the episode title, when he offered him the chloroform? I can't figure out if I'm making this up. If he did, then what do we think of the creepily quaint Kate/Jack/Aaron family as Jack's chloroform dream or something like that?

I thought I had more thoughts but I can't think of any now.
Except that as beautiful as Sawyer is, Jack and Kate are a frickin hot couple BUT my heart broke for Juliet. And what is Kate doing for Sawyer in the flashforward??? Ahhh, I love it!

LostFamily said...

Wow, the blog comments have exploded like the Hatch did - too bad more than 2 people aren't making up more of the posts - I'd love to hear what others thought. We're just getting to this episode and WOW the bodies are piling up! I was like 'who are those random people who just got killed?' I, for one, also hope Rousseau is not really dead - come on island, heal her! We definitely need to see her backstory of landing on the island the 'sickness' that made her kill everyone. As for Ben killing Nadia - that would be right up his alley and make him even EVILER than ever! And the whole "You know I can't kill you" to Widmore - I like the theory of them being each other's constant. That's all - my two cents years later (like the time travel on the show!)

Mike V. said...

@LOST Family - you're plowing right along! So what are you guys going to do when you get to season 6? Watch online or do you have them DVR'd? lol

As for the comments, yeah season 4 was the grand battle between CDStedman and the LOST Addicts Blog Addict. There is quite a subplot that reaches its conclusion in one of the season 4 blogs. But I can't remember which. It was pretty entertaining though! If you think THIS is a lot of comments, wait until you see season 6...it's out of control lol But again...there may be a couple people doing a majority of the commenting. But there are lots of great comments by everyone lol

I don't want to comment on anything you are speculating about...obviously, I know too much! :-) But I cannot believe you went right past THE CONSTANT episode without commenting! It's only the most revered episode of all time! lol j/k (about you not commenting...not about it being the greatest ep lol)

LostFamily said...

LOL - my daughter was embarrassed that I was posting at all!! But YES! "The Constant" was amazing and we did LOVE IT! You gotta root for Desmond and Penny! And now, with Widmore just saying that Penny is hidden somewhere - does that mean that Dezzie won't find her either? Ugh! Thanks for the reply - you have become required reading after an episode at this point - we rush to the computer to read the blog! And you did bring up something that we hadn't thought through - how are we going to watch Season 6?! Oh my - when is the DVD coming out? :)

Mike V. said...

I wish I could tell you what I know about the resolution to the Ben/Widmore/Desmond/Penny storyline....but I just couldn't spoil that for you! LOL You'll get there!

As for season 6...yikes, well there is always abc.com (not sure if they will have them all up by the time you finish)...but the DVD for season 6 comes out August 24th...which is actually pretty awesome considering the last few didn't come out until December (because season 4, 5 and 6 didn't start until Jan/Feb of the following year). And there's going to be tons of extra goodies on the season 6 bonus features that I'm looking forward to and am planning to blog about as well!

I think if you guys finish up seasons 4 and 5 early, maybe it will do you well to wait a month or so until you can finish. After all, we all had to wait 9 months between seasons 3 and 4, 4 and 5 and 5 and 6! And they were excruciating waits!! :-)

Oh, and never be embarassed about wanting to post a comment! I am actually enjoying your updates as you run through the series lol An advanced word of warning for when you get there. In the episode recap prior to the FINAL EPISODE of season 6....there's probably about 10-20 comments of people venting about the finale....I couldn't get a new post up soon enough...people wanted to start commenting! And then once i did get a 1 paragraph post up as I was typing up the finale blog....it got 450 comments! LOL Anyway, my point is...be careful not to read any spoilers in the comments of that penultimate series finale recap. A major advanced warning, but I wanted to let you know.

Thank you for making this blog an essential part of your LOST experience. It means a lot to me that this site's archives are still relevant!

Honey Tariq said...

I`d like to say that you always offer accurate information and I have been an long term reader of your site for quite some time. I’ve always been a regular reader of your web site for a long time.
LR to Bank Transfer

Honey Tariq said...

I had fun reading this post. Very informative as well. I didn’t know the procedure can be easy. your blog is very nice.Thanks for posting this important blog on your website. Thanks for this valuable information for all. And of course nice review about the application.
werken buitenland

Miles Balzard said...

Well, I just had to stop by and say boo-hoo to Alex getting killed. After Karl and her mom were killed (and funny, but I never doubted that they would stay dead), I thought Alex would get a good long run of being alive and fighting her own fight and maybe doing something to revenge her mother's murder...but then BANG!...she's dead, too. That s-u-u-u-cked! Ben's teary farewell to Alex was touching and we finally saw something in Ben that's scarcely been shown in him before: true sorrow. And you just KNOW that's going to lead to true anger and fury!

I did only skim through the comments, but holy mackerel there was a helluva war going on in there between two people, eh? Lost has nothing on them when it comes to melodramatic soap opera! Sorry you got caught up a bit in the crossfire, Mike.

Man, the smoke monster rolling through Othersville like a freight train: that was awesome! Have you ever noticed how just about every time we see smoke of any kind (on a boat, a plane, from a fire) it's almost always CGI? The special effects people must've been so proud of the smoke monster they busted out the computer graphics every time a touch of smoke was called for!

It sure seems like Ben time traveled to Tunisia. Like Desmond, he "arrived" in a bit of a daze, except his daze was a little more severe. So Mike, isn't a "relocation" considered the same as time travel? If Ben traveled to Tunisia in a specific year to specifically to track down Sayid, doesn't that mean he can control his own time travel? Or is that even what he did? I'm not great on details like that. But I agree with you Mike that we will see the events leading up to Ben's time shift (or whatever it was), because there are so many open questions about it.

One of my favorite recurring mini-themes is that Ben is one bad ass mofo when he needs to be. I love it when has to resort to violence to achieve one of his objectives. He's such a mild-mannered looking nerd, and then he busts out with the ninja moves! Great stuff!

I wasn't alone in predicting long ago that Charles Widmore was THE man behind the curtain, and that hasn't been proven right either, but it was terrific to see Ben square off against the Chuckster. Never expected it to be in a hotel bedroom, though! I'm not sure I see them as rivals at the beginnings of their relationship, though. It kinda seems more like a father/son or mentor/student relationship gone wrong.

Of course, Widmore was not the original man behind the curtain. And I don't think Hanso was either. As alluded to by the four-toe statue, this island goes back to ancient times. Perhaps back to the origin of man. Back to when the "man" behind the curtain wasn't a man at all, but a God.

Mike V. said...

Ahh....the comments war is all in the past. It was pretty funny at the time and is in hindsight too!

Yeah...smokey getting summoned in this ep was pretty awesome. I actually did not notice that anything besides the smoke monster related to smoke was CGI. I'll have to look for that in future rewatches.

Glad you agree with my theories on Ben. I won't say if I was right or wrong. But, I will say that I did have a right theory every now and then! lol As far as the rules of time travel....well, I can't really say yet! :)

There will be some interesting surprises in store when it comes to Charles Widmore in the future. Just keep watching!

Very interesting on the origin of the Island theories. You might be onto something there.

Leta said...

Whoa... Thank God for this blog, for I surely wouldn't be able to work out this crazy episode by myself. Even after reading your post I still have no idea what the hell happened in half of it!

I won't even go into the whole "did Ben time travel or not" territory, because my brain might explode. I was sure he did at first, what with him appearing so suddenly in the middle of a dessert, dressed like he was heading for Antarctica. And what about him questioning the hotel receptionist about the current date? But I'm not so sure now. All this time stuff goes WAY over my head, but I'm still loving it.

I laughed out loud when Jack asked Dan a seemingly simple question, when did they last see the doc. Dan's answer? ""When" is kind of a relative term". Too true!

I'm glad Sayid got together with Nadia, even if for a short time. Theirs is probably my 2nd favorite love story after Desmond/Penny. I don't believe Nadia was killed on Widmore's orders, though. That Ben's smile was just too suspicious.

I'm loving all the undercurrents of history between Ben Charles Widmore. Seems like the two of them go way back. I can't wait to find out more about this. Oh, but now I have to start worrying about Penny, too? Don't they dare kill her off! I don't think they would, but with this crazy show you can never be sure.

This was one hell of an insane episode. Planned to watch one more tonight, but I think this will be enough! My mind is still reeling.

Mike V. said...

Gotta be brief today. Weekend, kids you know. :) stuff I didn't have to worry about when lost was airing originally!! Lol

Don't worry too much about the time stuff. It's fun to debate but they'll cover everything you need to know. And basically for now you just need to know that time is all messed up when it comes to that island!!

That was a great episode. I wonder what it would've looked like if they didn't have the writers strike. Eps 9-14 tell a very focused story to wrap up season 4. If they didnt have that break and had more episodes we may have had freighter people flashbacks and who knows what else? It worked out to deliver a great Ben episode!

Look forward to hearing more progress on your lost viewing!